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What do you think

Dec 15, 2012#1

Carscw

This pic is going around what do you think?
I do not have guns but I feel everyone should have the right to have one with a background check.

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Dec 15, 2012#2

reynoldston

I am going to say either one. The first sign the person already knows this and the second sign means nothing to a person that is going to kill them self anyways

Dec 15, 2012#3

Ric

Neither, Signs and or gun laws will not prevent another tragedy.

Dec 15, 2012#4

lawn mower fanatic

I wish it was that easy, but people who want to kill will do whatever necessary and ignore the rules.

Dec 15, 2012#5

R

Rivets

YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE STUPIDITY OR CYA. Been there, done that. Have been in the school when guns were there. Twice caught students with weapons. This is just one of the many things teachers today have to be aware of and know how to deal with. Just one of the many things that are now part of our jobs and we must be aware of. Believe it or not, but it is now part of our training. How many of you would like to have this job, when you entrust us with your children? I'll bet we will hear of some hero, coming out of this sorry event. Maybe not, just part of the job.

Dec 15, 2012#6

metz12

Like ric said, gun laws wont protect anything. and if you just outlawed guns, and people actually listened, think of how many weapons are still out there!!

Dec 15, 2012#7

Carscw

Guns don't kill people people kill people same as cars the drunk driver kills people not the car.

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Dec 15, 2012#8

K

KennyV

I think there have been laws against killing people for a while now...
If those existing laws are not preventing it, why would anyone think More laws would do it?

Dec 16, 2012#9

midnite rider

I think this was a very terrible tragedy to take the lives of these innocent children and adults here in the USA. But to put it in perspective, the mainstream media seems to sensationalize and report this very heavily while you hear very little of the following statistics worldwide.

Malnutrition is the key factor contributing to more than one-third of all global child deaths resulting in 2.6 million deaths per year. A Life Free From Hunger: Tackling Child Malnutrition, Save the Children, Feb 2012

Every five seconds, a child dies from hunger-related diseases..MDG Report - Goal 4, 2010 (pdf)

More than 11 million children die each year from preventable health issues such as malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia. MDG Report - Goal 4, 2010 (pdf)

22,000 children die each day due to conditions of poverty. UNICEF State of the World's Children, 2010 (pdf)

According to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), 2 million children have been killed by conflict over the last decade.

Dec 16, 2012#10

pugaltitude

Your constitution was good back in the 1700 (or whenever) when you were fighting for freedom and killing indians but you need to bring it into the 21 century.
Nobody needs guns unless job dependant and with licence.
Over here even air rifles need a licence because a child got shot!
Take guns away and the innocent might stand a chance.

Dec 16, 2012#11

midnite rider

pugaltitude said:
Your constitution was good back in the 1700 (or whenever) when you were fighting for freedom and killing indians but you need to bring it into the 21 century.
Nobody needs guns unless job dependant and with licence.
Over here even air rifles need a licence because a child got shot!
Take guns away and the innocent might stand a chance.

We are still fighting for freedom here. Freedom is not free.

Dec 16, 2012#12

pugaltitude

midnite rider said:
We are still fighting for freedom here. Freedom is not free.

Take away the guns and you might have your freedom.
We got our freedom when Mel Gibson fought for us a few years ago!! :laughing:

Dec 16, 2012#13

Ric

Carscw said:
Guns don't kill people people kill people same as cars the drunk driver kills people not the car.

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I've said the same thing before, Guns don't kill people...........People Kill People. A gun is nothing more than a tool, it has no mind or feelings. If you want to stop violence, Stop Selling and Promoting Violence, not guns.

Dec 16, 2012#14

Ric

pugaltitude said:
Your constitution was good back in the 1700 (or whenever) when you were fighting for freedom and killing indians but you need to bring it into the 21 century.
Nobody needs guns unless job dependant and with licence.
Over here even air rifles need a licence because a child got shot!
Take guns away and the innocent might stand a chance.

The thing is as someone else said were still fighting for freedoms and were doing it all over the world. As far as your statement that Nobody needs guns unless job dependent and with license. I don't agree with. I do agree there needs to be some changes made in our gun laws. The thing is if we had a president in 2004 that did something, the Ban on Assault weapons would have been extended and that Bushmaster 223 assault weapon with a 30 shot clip used in this last tragedy maybe wouldn't have been available.

Dec 16, 2012#15

K

kyoshofan1

pugaltitude said:
Take away the guns and you might have your freedom.
We got our freedom when Mel Gibson fought for us a few years ago!! :laughing:

Well unfortunately the people that want to do harm will get a gun if they want to-laws keep the honest people honest, the others are going to do what they want whether there is a law against it or not!

Dec 16, 2012#16

Ric

kyoshofan1 said:
Well unfortunately the people that want to do harm will get a gun if they want to-laws keep the honest people honest, the others are going to do what they want whether there is a law against it or not!

Unfortunately you're right but I think that's all the more reason people need a gun in there house to protect themselves and there property.

Dec 16, 2012#17

pugaltitude

Ric said:
The thing is as someone else said were still fighting for freedoms and were doing it all over the world. As far as your statement that Nobody needs guns unless job dependent and with license. I don't agree with.

But are we not just fighting somebody elses battles?
Also why do you not agree?

Dec 16, 2012#18

pugaltitude

Ric said:
Unfortunately you're right but I think that's all the more reason people need a gun in there house to protect themselves and there property.

Its a knock on effect.
Kids see parents with guns in the house and assume its ok for them to have them.
As a parent of a 6year old i dont even promote pretend toy gun play but kids are kids and will always do it by themselves.
Because our gun laws are tight over here its stabbing thats a problem!!

Dec 16, 2012#19

pugaltitude

kyoshofan1 said:
Well unfortunately the people that want to do harm will get a gun if they want to-laws keep the honest people honest, the others are going to do what they want whether there is a law against it or not!

But we have to make it harder for them.
It seems to be excuses are always made in America because it has a big gun culture.
Education and law

Dec 16, 2012#20

Ric

pugaltitude said:
Its a knock on effect.
Kids see parents with guns in the house and assume its ok for them to have them.
As a parent of a 6year old i dont even promote pretend toy gun play but kids are kids and will always do it by themselves.
Because our gun laws are tight over here its stabbing thats a problem!!

It's not just toy guns, how about,Call of Duty goes 3-D
As if the gun-toting action in "Call of Duty: Black Ops" wasn't expected to feel real enough in high definition, Activision Blizzard Inc. has announced that the latest entry. All these video games available to kids to play what does it teach them and there's other stuff like this music today that talks about killing that's out there that does nothing but promote violence.

I was raised around guns, took hunters safety courses growing up and so did my kids. My dad trained me to shoot just like I did my kids. It all comes down to education.

Dec 16, 2012#21

pugaltitude

Adults are always the problem.
Games, music, films etc have ratings.
Why do "adults" allow kids to watch or play these things?
I used to play grand theft auto and pretend to run people over but would never allow my kids to do this till they were aged enough at the rating and understand it.
Iv got some friends that allow there 7 year old to play and say its fine.

Dec 16, 2012#22

metz12

So, if they want to take away our gun rights, then they will have to take away our chainsaw rights too. because that can be used as a weapon also.

Dec 16, 2012#23

pugaltitude

metz12 said:
So, if they want to take away our gun rights, then they will have to take away our chainsaw rights too. because that can be used as a weapon also.

Taking it a bit far now.
How many people do you know walk into a school with a chainsaw and kill people?
We would have to then cut our hands and feet off aswell then as they are weapons?
IMO it has to be common sense.
Guns are known as weapons which are meant to hit things from distance mostly killing.
Chainsaws are tools to cut trees down!!

Dec 16, 2012#24

metz12

pugaltitude said:
Taking it a bit far now.
How many people do you know walk into a school with a chainsaw and kill people?
We would have to then cut our hands and feet off aswell then as they are weapons?
IMO it has to be common sense.
Guns are known as weapons which are meant to hit things from distance mostly killing.
Chainsaws are tools to cut trees down!!

Well its just my point of view, you are right by saying that it is easier to use then a chainsaw but still even if a person follows the gun law, and they want someone dead then they are going to find another way to kill them. just think of how many simple things that could be used as weapons.

Dec 16, 2012#25

midnite rider

Dec 16, 2012#26

Ric

metz12 said:
Well its just my point of view, you are right by saying that it is easier to use then a chainsaw but still even if a person follows the gun law, and they want someone dead then they are going to find another way to kill them. just think of how many simple things that could be used as weapons.

Basically most anything can be used as a weapon, Gun laws like padlocks are for honest people.

Dec 16, 2012#27

lawn mower fanatic

metz12 said:
Well its just my point of view, you are right by saying that it is easier to use then a chainsaw but still even if a person follows the gun law, and they want someone dead then they are going to find another way to kill them. just think of how many simple things that could be used as weapons.

Agreed. They will find other ways to kill people even if guns are illegal but they will also find ways to get guns, even if they are illegal. So really they will use anything if it is legal or not--it doesn't matter.

Dec 16, 2012#28

midnite rider

pugaltitude said:
Your constitution was good back in the 1700 (or whenever) when you were fighting for freedom and killing indians but you need to bring it into the 21 century.
Nobody needs guns unless job dependant and with licence.
Over here even air rifles need a licence because a child got shot!
Take guns away and the innocent might stand a chance.

The Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act of 1997, banned private ownership of handguns almost completely in the United Kingdom. The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

Read more: Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

Dec 17, 2012#29

pugaltitude

metz12 said:
Well its just my point of view, you are right by saying that it is easier to use then a chainsaw but still even if a person follows the gun law, and they want someone dead then they are going to find another way to kill them. just think of how many simple things that could be used as weapons.

I havent got a problem with anybodys point of view and fully respect any of them as we live in a "free"
World to say what we want (within reason).
Yes chainsaws should have licences aswell.
I still cant believe that in this day and age anybody can go to a supermarket and buy something as dangerous as a saw.
We have the "right" to drive a car once we have past a "test".
Thats what guns should have as well.
Yes anybody may be able to aquire firearms illegally but lets make it harder.
Just had a documentary on with america having 50% of the worlds firearms with only 5% of worlds population. Something wrong.
Why do 10% of women in America own a firearm?
America is one hell of a scary place!!!

Dec 17, 2012#30

combatcarl

Hey pug, I get it. You don't live here, though. Its really beginning to grate at me how folks from all over the world feel they have an opinion that matters in this. We have rights, protected by our constitution. I personally, don't want to live in a place where I'm outgunned by the police or anyone else. Its how our nation was founded. You can't understand. That's why I don't live in CA, NY, Chicago, etc. Its laughable that you have to register a bb gun. I've had one since 10 years old. Never did gunplay, no game system as a kid, and just under 5 years in the Army. Please, worry about your country, not mine. We'll fix our problems ourselves. Ya dig?

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Dec 17, 2012#31

pugaltitude

But thats what you dont understand, what happens in America happens in the rest of the world certainly over here.
You change oil prices it effects us.
You bring out product it effects us.
You go to war it effects us.
Everything America does changes the world because of the super power.
Iv got enough to worry about.
We are going to vote soon if Scotland wants to be independant to the rest of Britain.
No way do i want that to then have our own debt etc
I know i dont live there and have only been once as a child but it will effect everybody worldwide.

Dec 17, 2012#32

combatcarl

How does my possession of numerous firearms affect you? Please expound on that statement. I don't believe it does, at all. You should worry about the police being able to inspect one's home simply because they possess firearms. But you don't. And I don't gripe about you having fewer rights than me. Or anything else about your homeland. So can it.

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Dec 17, 2012#33

combatcarl

Oh, and there's another key difference. Worried about independence? Have to vote for it? We won ours, over 200 years ago. So far, excepting the u.n., we've kept it. Why wouldn't you want independence? THAT is something I can't understand.

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Dec 17, 2012#34

pugaltitude

combatcarl said:
Oh, and there's another key difference. Worried about independence? Have to vote for it? We won ours, over 200 years ago. So far, excepting the u.n., we've kept it. Why wouldn't you want independence? THAT is something I can't understand.

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We are not big enough or powerful enough to look after ourselves.
Debt is shared throughout britain.
Now if we went independant our own debt would probably triple or more.
We dont have an army, schools would change, jobs and even our money may change.
We would not have money.
Money is life and life is money.

Dec 17, 2012#35

pugaltitude

combatcarl said:
How does my possession of numerous firearms affect you? Please expound on that statement. I don't believe it does, at all. You should worry about the police being able to inspect one's home simply because they possess firearms. But you don't. And I don't gripe about you having fewer rights than me. Or anything else about your homeland. So can it.

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Iv never said anything about you having more firearms effect me.
Why should i worry about the police inspecting my house for firearms when i dont have any?
What do you mean having fewer rights than me? I have not mentioned rights.
Basically all i have said is change gun laws and 20 kids might be alive today.

Dec 17, 2012#36

pugaltitude

Its also not really a vote for independance but vote for prefered candidate who is then going to try and change the way we live.
Basically just like vote for obama or vote romney on the way you think your country should be run.
A lawnmower forum will not change the world unfortunately.:laughing:

Dec 17, 2012#37

Ric

pugaltitude said:
I havent got a problem with anybodys point of view and fully respect any of them as we live in a "free"
World to say what we want (within reason).
Yes chainsaws should have licences aswell.
I still cant believe that in this day and age anybody can go to a supermarket and buy something as dangerous as a saw.
We have the "right" to drive a car once we have past a "test".
Thats what guns should have as well.
Yes anybody may be able to aquire firearms illegally but lets make it harder.
Just had a documentary on with america having 50% of the worlds firearms with only 5% of worlds population. Something wrong.
Why do 10% of women in America own a firearm?
America is one hell of a scary place!!!

I agree with everyone's opinion here but lets not get carried away (chainsaw License's) :confused2: You say We have the "right" to drive a car once we have past a "test".
That's what guns should have as well, and they do to carry a concealed weapon and the nice thing is you can call and take the coarse in your own home.
The thing is that America started as a gun culture in the beginning and it still is today and will never change no matter what new laws are government comes up with.

Dec 17, 2012#38

Ric

pugaltitude
You say anybody may be able to acquire firearms illegally but lets make it harder. How would you make it Harder???????????

Dec 17, 2012#39

pugaltitude

Ric said:
pugaltitude
You say anybody may be able to acquire firearms illegally but lets make it harder. How would you make it Harder???????????

This is going to be the difficult part.
Education, laws, licences, tougher port control to stop illegal import of firearms and supermarkets to stop selling guns and bullets.
Probably whats going on now but maybe tougher.
I know its very difficult and glad im not the decision maker.

Dec 17, 2012#40

combatcarl

As a gun owner, I think we have plenty of restrictions on WHO may or may not possess. I think we need REAL penalties for those who possess illegally, or those who transfer to those who are restricted from possession. As it stands, you only do a few years, and if you're a criminal to begin with, you don't mind. Prison is college for criminals. That's why I don't sell. If I could, for free, run a background check on a personal transfer, I would. As would all other gun owners. But FFL holders charge a fee for this. Why? Its in a freely accessible database, if the FBI would comply. You'd need an SSN, so it's not like there would be rampant fraud. If we had a way of psychiatric treatment, not just medicating and criminalization, we wouldn't see these nuts doing this.

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Dec 17, 2012#41

Ric

pugaltitude said:
This is going to be the difficult part.
Education, laws, licences, tougher port control to stop illegal import of firearms and supermarkets to stop selling guns and bullets.
Probably whats going on now but maybe tougher.
I know its very difficult and glad im not the decision maker.

Everything from the second line in your post is already in place but as far as for stopping the sale of guns and ammo I don't agree with. I do believe the sale of assault rifles needs to be banned, large capacity magazines things like that shouldn't be available to the public.

There are those who believe that there should be more guns (carry weapons) be aloud in schools and churches in fact the Governor of Michigan has a bill on his desk waiting to be signed to do just that at this very moment. Good Idea or Bad Idea. Will he sign it or not who knows.

Dec 17, 2012#42

Carscw

A small city just west of me has a law that every homeowner MUST have a gun in the house.
There is no crime. Your house does not get broke into. Your thing in your yard are safe.
You know if you try and rob a store you will be shot.

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Dec 17, 2012#43

combatcarl

Ric said:
Everything from the second line in your post is already in place but as far as for stopping the sale of guns and ammo I don't agree with. I do believe the sale of assault rifles needs to be banned, large capacity magazines things like that shouldn't be available to the public.

There are those who believe that there should be more guns (carry weapons) be aloud in schools and churches in fact the Governor of Michigan has a bill on his desk waiting to be signed to do just that at this very moment. Good Idea or Bad Idea. Will he sign it or not who knows.

Ok, but if we're going to ban things, let's ban other unneeded things. Let's govern all cars to 60 MPH. Let's ban high horsepower vehicles. They're dangerous, and people hurt themselves and others with them. We'll ban cars because people without license or insurance can still get them and drive them. See? It doesn't make any sense.

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Dec 18, 2012#44

Ric

combatcarl said:
Ok, but if we're going to ban things, let's ban other unneeded things. Let's govern all cars to 60 MPH. Let's ban high horsepower vehicles. They're dangerous, and people hurt themselves and others with them. We'll ban cars because people without license or insurance can still get them and drive them. See? It doesn't make any sense.

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I don't think it's a case of unneeded things. It's more like maybe being practical. Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti gun, I own six different guns and a few other weapons but were talking about a weapon that was designed and manufactured by Sig Sauer or some other company to be used by the military in war time and would serve no purpose for the home owner.

I think the thing that really bothers me is the fact that the Ban there proposing would not have changed the outcome in Newtown Conn. or any other mass killings that have ever taken place in the past, present and future, so what's the sense.

Dec 18, 2012#45

combatcarl

Exactly. If we end up with a ban on high cap mags, I'd like to see everyone held to it, including law enforcement. There's no hi cap mags out in the public then, so why would law enforcement have a need? Or why would they need AR15s? They would say for defense. But are common civilians not worthy of better defending themselves? I'm ok with background checks across the board, but we have to find a way to log the headcases who shouldn't possess. Without throwing vets with combat related issues under the bus. That's what terrifies me. Being ruled "unfit" to own firearms, simply because I may have some residual stress from my military time. I took an oath once, and would never misplace the faith that the people of this country placed in me, by harming someone outside of defending myself or my family, or other innocents. We need nut control.

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Dec 20, 2012#46

I

ILENGINE

Ric said:
Everything from the second line in your post is already in place but as far as for stopping the sale of guns and ammo I don't agree with. I do believe the sale of assault rifles needs to be banned, large capacity magazines things like that shouldn't be available to the public.QUOTE]

The assault weapons (term actually coined by Adolph Hitler) that they want to ban are semi-auto, not the full auto, selective fire weapons(required to meet the definitition of an assault weapon) required used by the military. Does a .223 AR15 have more killing power than .223 varmint rifle? Or does a collapsible stock increase the deadliness of the same rifle with a fixed stock.

The guns they want to ban are based on what they look like, not how they function. Thirty round magazines for AR15 are more likely to have malfunctions than standard 20 round capacity magazines. Some politicians want to ban 17 round magazines for the glock, which is a standard capacity magazine for that handgun.

I can take my standard Ruger 10/22 rifle and replace the stock with a folding or collapsible stock, and that would make it an assault rifle under the media's description of an assault rifle. Just changing the appearance shouldn't make one rifle ok and the other one banned.

I am not even sure that the current proposed ban would even meet constitution muster under Heller/Mcdonald. Which stated that you cannot ban arms in common use. There are like 15 million AR15's nationwide and growing daily. If that doesn't meet the requirement of common use then I don't know what would.

The truth is the last assault weapons ban that ended in 2004 is what started the current AR15 craze, and didn't change the number of mass murders. AR15's weren't banned, just certain features like a flash hider, and collapsible stock, or bayonet lug.

Dec 20, 2012#47

jakewells

we had a incident in high school a few years ago i was there i was senior. a student threatened a few students and teachers and one kid overpowered the guy with the gun took away his gun and kept him held down till police arrived on scene. it happened fast too nobody got hurt but the kid got 12 yrs in county prison.

Dec 21, 2012#48

Bison

pugaltitude said:
Adults are always the problem.
Games, music, films etc have ratings.
Why do "adults" allow kids to watch or play these things?
I used to play grand theft auto and pretend to run people over but would never allow my kids to do this till they were aged enough at the rating and understand it.Iv got some friends that allow there 7 year old to play and say its fine.

Thank the Lord they took your guns away,..you was nuts back then allready

Dec 21, 2012#49

Bison

pugaltitude said:
I havent got a problem with anybodys point of view and fully respect any of them as we live in a "free"
World to say what we want (within reason).
Yes chainsaws should have licences aswell.
I still cant believe that in this day and age anybody can go to a supermarket and buy something as dangerous as a saw.
We have the "right" to drive a car once we have past a "test".
Thats what guns should have as well.
Yes anybody may be able to aquire firearms illegally but lets make it harder.
Just had a documentary on with america having 50% of the worlds firearms with only 5% of worlds population. Something wrong.
Why do 10% of women in America own a firearm?
America is one hell of a scary place!!!

Hee Pug, i live in bear,cougar,wolf country, how do i protect myself,my family or mij livestock against those if need be if i can't have a gun.:confused2:
Do you think a hammer will help?

Dec 21, 2012#50

Ric

Bison said:
Hee Pug, i live in bear,cougar,wolf country, how do i protect myself,my family or mij livestock against those if need be if i can't have a gun.:confused2:
Do you think a hammer will help?

Well to start with Nobody said you can't have a gun. Lets think about this, seeing were on a lawn forum I'll use this as an example. I'm a homeowner with 1/8 acre to mow and I need a mower, do I run down to the shop and buy a 60" commercial ztr? answer of course not I buy a 22" self propelled push.

Do you need an AR 223 bushmaster to shoot at bear, cougar, wolf or to protect your livestock? Do you need a 9mm Glock with a forty shot clip and a silencer to protect your family, I don't think so.

The problem with people is there wants over shadow there needs, it's called overkill and I think that's what the Government looking at nothing more.

As I said before I'm a gun owner, I own pistols, shotguns and a rifle or two but lets get real my 40 cal Glock at my beside at night is very sufficient I don't believe you need something like this for protection. BTW the photo below isn't mine, I borrowed the photo from a gun forum, I hope they don't mind.

Dec 21, 2012#51

pugaltitude

Ric said:
Well to start with Nobody said you can't have a gun. Lets think about this, seeing were on a lawn forum I'll use this as an example. I'm a homeowner with 1/8 acre to mow and I need a mower, do I run down to the shop and buy a 60" commercial ztr? answer of course not I buy a 22" self propelled push.

Do you need an AR 223 bushmaster to shoot at bear, cougar, wolf or to protect your livestock? Do you need a 9mm Glock with a forty shot clip and a silencer to protect your family, I don't think so.

The problem with people is there wants over shadow there needs, it's called overkill and I think that's what the Government looking at nothing more.

As I said before I'm a gun owner, I own pistols, shotguns and a rifle or two but lets get real my 40 cal Glock at my beside at night is very sufficient I don't believe you need something like this

View attachment 10366

Simple, move house!! :laughing:

Dec 21, 2012#52

pugaltitude

Carscw said:
A small city just west of me has a law that every homeowner MUST have a gun in the house.
There is no crime. Your house does not get broke into. Your thing in your yard are safe.
You know if you try and rob a store you will be shot.

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I just think this is wrong.

A typical normal house with a family of 4 with 9-5 jobs imo do not need a gun.

Now I said job dependant, so gamekeepers, pro hunters, farmers, that type of person.

Now Im no city slicker but I am a small country type boy that does go fishing, ferreting and have been hunting but is all done in "controlled" enviroment.

As for bullets and guns imo they are not meant for super markets but for controlled enviroments!

Dec 21, 2012#53

Ric

pugaltitude said:
I just think this is wrong.

A typical normal house with a family of 4 with 9-5 jobs imo do not need a gun.

Now I said job dependent, so gamekeepers, pro hunters, farmers, that type of person.

Now Im no city slicker but I am a small country type boy that does go fishing, ferreting and have been hunting but is all done in "controlled" environment.

As for bullets and guns imo they are not meant for super markets but for controlled environments!

I've never heard of a gun store referred to as a super market before. :smile: You talk of a controlled environment, isn't your home a controlled environment. Shouldn't this typical normal house with a family of 4 with 9-5 jobs have the choice of what they want in there home for protection, or do they rely on a 911 call with law enforcement that shows up after the tragedy.

Dec 21, 2012#54

pugaltitude

Ric said:
I've never heard of a gun store referred to as a super market before. :smile: You talk of a controlled environment, isn't your home a controlled environment. Shouldn't this typical normal house with a family of 4 with 9-5 jobs have the choice of what they want in there home for protection, or do they rely on a 911 call with law enforcement that shows up after the tragedy.

1 You are in bed sleeping of course :laughing: A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill him.
Do you go to jail with the chance of death row as America still has this I assume or are you a Hero?

2 You are in bed again (lazy) :laughing:.
A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill one of your kids.
Who is :laughing: now???

I honestly dont know anybody that owns a gun.

Dec 21, 2012#55

Ric

pugaltitude said:
1 You are in bed sleeping of course :laughing: A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill him.
Do you go to jail with the chance of death row as America still has this I assume or are you a Hero?

2 You are in bed again (lazy) :laughing:.
A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill one of your kids.
Who is :laughing: now???

I honestly dont know anybody that owns a gun.

If I'm in bed sleeping and someone breaks into my home and I shoot the individual I won't be arrested or put in jail because that individual won't be alive to testify and the shooting will be in self defense and justified. I've had cops that have told me that.
As far as children go I no longer have any living at home and when I did I honestly had more guns then than I do now, but I also was taught to know what and who your shooting at before you pull the trigger. You're taught all those things in safety courses.

You say you honestly don't know anybody that owns a gun, I don't think I know anybody that don't.:laughing:

Dec 21, 2012#56

midnite rider

I think yes an AR15 maybe overkill as of my present needs but that does not mean it will be overkill for my future needs in protecting my family and property. With the state of most of the populations dependency on the government here, I would like to be prepared. What would happen if say the government could not keep the peace in the case of disaster be it man made or natural. It would only take a few days for hoards of people to be willing to kill you to take your food and property. I would rather be prepared to be able to at least try and defend myself rather than be the sheep for slaughter. Thank our forefathers for the freedoms we have and may we continue to fight to retain them. :ban::thumbdown:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson

Dec 21, 2012#57

Carscw

pugaltitude said:
1 You are in bed sleeping of course :laughing: A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill him.
Do you go to jail with the chance of death row as America still has this I assume or are you a Hero?

2 You are in bed again (lazy) :laughing:.
A Bad Guy is causing problems in the house. You take aim, shoot and kill one of your kids.
Who is :laughing: now???

I honestly dont know anybody that owns a gun.

If you shoot and kill him and he is facing you your a hero if you shoot him in the back of the head your going to jail. As I said before I do not have any guns but you break in my house you will be killed.
I have friends that have guns all over the house and know of more than one that there kids have picked one up and shot it luckily no one was hurt. But you can not blame the gun you can only blame the dumb azz that left it sitting there.
I think it's ok if you hunt for food to have a rifle or a pistol for home defense. But what reason does any one have to own 20 guns or a automatic rifle or something to shoot 300 yards.

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Dec 21, 2012#58

K

KennyV

I own likely more than my share of guns.
I had my fill of military weapons when I was in the military. So I do not have a lot of them now.
But I don't mind anyone else having any amount they like... for what ever purpose they may feel the need. (Switzerland requires their citizenry to keep Fully Automatic Weapons).
BTW no big problem there.
Weapons are Not the problem, a few people Are the problem. Deal with Those few people, and you will have less problems.
You can't allow mentally ill people free access to the general society. Especially if you are relying on a voluntary self administered 'control drug' to allow them to 'blend into' society.
KennyV

Dec 21, 2012#59

I

ILENGINE

pugaltitude said:
I just think this is wrong.

A typical normal house with a family of 4 with 9-5 jobs imo do not need a gun.

Now I said job dependant, so gamekeepers, pro hunters, farmers, that type of person.

Now Im no city slicker but I am a small country type boy that does go fishing, ferreting and have been hunting but is all done in "controlled" enviroment.

As for bullets and guns imo they are not meant for super markets but for controlled enviroments!

I have a situation to think about? What if somebody breaks into your home at 1 AM with some sort of a weapon, what do you do? Probably call the police. OK, now think about this, The police are 45 minutes away, maybe only have one officer on duty to cover 1000 square miles. Now how do you defend yourself while you wait for the police to show up.

Comes back to the staying that, When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Dec 21, 2012#60

Carscw

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Dec 21, 2012#61

Ric

ILENGINE said:
I have a situation to think about? What if somebody breaks into your home at 1 AM with some sort of a weapon, what do you do? Probably call the police. OK, now think about this, The police are 45 minutes away, maybe only have one officer on duty to cover 1000 square miles. Now how do you defend yourself while you wait for the police to show up.

Comes back to the staying that, When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

That was one of the things that was talked about by the NRA's Pres. Wayne LaPierre when he talk about school personnel being issued weapons permits. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you
rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away or a minute away. Defend Yourself.

Dec 22, 2012#62

pugaltitude

Carscw said:
View attachment 10382

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

:laughing::laughing:

Dec 22, 2012#63

RobertBrown

This young man entered the school with several weapons, 1 of which was an AR-15 rifle, the others were 9mm semi auto handguns. All of the weapons were purchased by his mother then stolen from her and in fact, used to kill her.
What puzzles me is the focus of the gun issue seems to be on the semi auto "military style" weapon, and large capacity magazines.
It seems to me that if you were the type that wanted to "do harm" to large numbers of innocents, all of the above weapons would be a "poor choice". You don't hear of terrorists using hand guns, or even small arms, they use explosives or airplanes.
If that nutcase in Connecticut had had a purposefully equipped shot gun, one that could be easily obtained and modified, the body count would have been much higher, yet we don't see anyone discussing laws controlling same.
Could it be that our government is not concerned about protecting it's citizens against it's citizens as much as it is about disarming it's population?
I guess where I'm going with this is, this particular incident could not have been avoided and will not be prevented with the proposed gun control laws that I've heard of as of late.
Now granted, this is not the only incident over the past few years. But as I recall, all of the recent incidents where the perpetrator kills many, then kills himself, or the James Holmes (Denver) shootings, were at close range, not anywhere near the range the 5.56 cartridge was deigned to operate in. Yet our leaders tend to focus on this weapon when considering gun control.
This weapon is labeled unnecessary, or overkill. I hear people saying " I can't see how anyone would need an assault rifle".
My response is "Just because you can't see the need doesn't mean we aren't quickly approaching a place where it (the need) will become apparent".
Although this place doesn't concern me as much as it does some, furthermore I don't own an AR rifle, or any assault style rifle, or any military style weapons for that matter. But I do respect those who feel it's a good idea to have one or more in their collection and I believe that it is exactly what the second amendment was intended for.
I believe you have the right to protect yourself and your loved ones on your property.
There was a time in this country when you could form your own militia, and it was only a a couple of hundred years ago. Now we are expected to be totally dependent on the governments ( Local state and federal) for our protection. So look how far we've come and look where we are going....
What does concern me is, why there are those in our government who seem pre-occupied with getting these weapons to a place that is off limits to civilians. These weapons, the weapons used to defend a country.
If you think I'm "off the wall" here. I would answer by asking you to look into the sale of these "assault rifles" and the relevant ammo over the past ten years and over the past ten days.

Dec 22, 2012#64

midnite rider

RobertBrown said:
Could it be that our government is not concerned about protecting it's citizens against it's citizens as much as it is about disarming it's population?

My response is "Just because you can't see the need doesn't mean we aren't quickly approaching a place where it (the need) will become apparent".

I believe you have the right to protect yourself and your loved ones on your property.

What does concern me is, why there are those in our government who seem pre-occupied with getting these weapons to place that is off limits to civilians. These weapons, the weapons used to defend a country.

Robert, you are right on the target with your comments and I could not agree with you any more than I already do. Once they disarm us then they can have their will with us. I wish to be a free man, not a slave to the government.

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
Thomas Jefferson

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Dec 22, 2012#65

RobertBrown

pugaltitude said:
America is one hell of a scary place!!!

Click to expand...

You just stay right where you're comfortable.
We will be fine without you here in "The land of the Free and the home of the Brave"
If it wasn't for this "place" you would be speaking German

I think bagpipes are scary

Do you have a plaid skirt?

Dec 22, 2012#66

pugaltitude

RobertBrown said:
pugaltitude said:

You just stay right where your comfortable.
We will be fine without you here in "The land of the Free and the home of the Brave"
If it wasn't for this "place" you would be speaking German

I think bagpipes are scary

Do you have a plaid skirt?

Click to expand...

I am a lowland scot (not far from Lockerbie) so dont wear kilts but troos which is tartan trousers.
The wierdo highlanders or Teucher are scandanaivian who brought the skirts.
Bagpipes are fantastic instrument but since there is no trigger you wouldnt understand.
As for the German probably if no European colony then you would all maybe be using bow and arrows
:laughing: happy days

Dec 22, 2012#67

RobertBrown

dont wear kilts but troos which is tartan trousers.

troos.....kilts..... I don't care

I am a lowland scot (not far from Lockerbie)

Like I said....I don't care

Bagpipes are fantastic instrument

Fantastic.......a subjective term.

there is no trigger you wouldnt understand

They no doubt left the trigger off for good reason..... Scots like you would be shootin yer toes off. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Dec 23, 2012#68

Ric

RobertBrown said:
This young man entered the school with several weapons, 1 of which was an AR-15 rifle, the others were 9mm semi auto handguns. All of the weapons were purchased by his mother then stolen from her and in fact, used to kill her.

Yeah they were purchased by his mother, but to say were stolen, what's to say that he didn't have access to the guns to go to the range after all he was twenty years old.

What puzzles me is the focus of the gun issue seems to be on the semi auto "military style" weapon, and large capacity magazines.
It seems to me that if you were the type that wanted to "do harm" to large numbers of innocents, all of the above weapons would be a "poor choice". You don't hear of terrorists using hand guns, or even small arms, they use explosives or airplanes.

Why would it puzzle you that the focus of the gun issue seems to be on the semi auto "military style" weapon, and large capacity magazines after all that is what has been used in all these mass killings and I think you'll find the majority of people believe they shouldn't be available to the public. To say that you don't hear of terrorists using hand guns, or even small arms, they use explosives only strengthens the point of the availability of the assault weapon ( the perpetrators of theses mass killing don't use explosives because there not available.) As you say these are military style" weapons. These weapons should be used to defend the country by military personnel and that's who should have access not the public.

this particular incident could not have been avoided and will not be prevented with the proposed gun control laws

I agree that this particular incident could not have been avoided and will not be prevented in the future with the proposed gun control laws, all we can hope is that it slows it down.

You Quote the second amendment and its intention for giving you the right to have and to bear arms and protect yourself and your loved ones on your property, and that it does and it doesn't say what weapons you can have does it? I totally agree with it no problem but I also know that when it the second amendment was drafted they had No Idea of the weapons we would have access to today.

If you think I'm "off the wall" here. I would answer by asking you to look into the sale of these "assault rifles" and the relevant ammo over the past ten years and over the past ten days.

Yea it's called PANIC.

Everybody's in fear of losing there gun rights, there going to take our guns away (Please) That will never happen and no body's saying any such thing. The thing is what is happening that there some stores Like Dick's Sporting Goods that have pulled all there assault rifles off the shelves and will no longer take part in selling those type of weapons and I think you'll find there will be others that will follow, they didn't need the Government to say there banned to take what they saw as the appropriate action.

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