safety switch killing batteries

[reynoldston]

I have never seen a seat switch that was even wired through the battery. They are wired on the kill side of the ignition module, with no battery voltage what so ever even coming close to the seat switch.

I think you need and your neighbor need to look else where for the battery problem. Not charging, faulty batteries, Had a customer that went through 4 one spring due to faulty batteries. Could even be a short some place in the wiring. But I doubt it is the seat switch.

On most mowers this is right but not all. I have seen the seat switch go to a relay that supply's the negative, just worked on a Wheel horse that had that system this fall. This is the very reason for a wiring diagram.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Briggs and other engine companies have many different electrical setups for charging and engine electrical systems, I think that Briggs has too many and possibly others may also.
Getting the wiring diagrams specific to the machine and the engine are the better way to start troubleshooting electrical problems on any machine.

 

[reynoldston]

Briggs and other engine companies have many different electrical setups for charging and engine electrical systems, I think that Briggs has too many and possibly others may also.
Getting the wiring diagrams specific to the machine and the engine are the better way to start troubleshooting electrical problems on any machine.

This is very true and that is the very reason this is my advice any electrical problem. Year to year and model to model can be different.

 

[Boobala]

Found this manual , it may or may not pertain to your mower , BUT section 10 has some electrical info that may prove useful . :confused2:

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/00173200.pdf

Hope ya good luck, .....Later .......... Boobala

 

[pugaltitude]

If its 6 months old then take it back to dealer for warranty.

 

[bertsmobile1]

On most mowers you will have battery voltage to the voltage regulator even with the key off. Most people think you have to isolate the charging system to prevent battery discharge, but if everything is working correctly that isn't true.

Only if they are a relatively new mower with a real regulator & a 10A or higher charging system.
There is nothing in the B&S 3 to 5 A systems to regulate the charging, just a single diode which is only just barely able to do its job.

 

[bertsmobile1]

I haven't seen battery excited voltage regulators since Onan and Kohler stopped using them in possibly the mid 70s. Starter/generators have battery voltage at the regulator, but they went away back then also.
AC comes out of the stator in two wires that connect to the regulator/rectifier, the R/R blocks the part of the AC that is the wrong polarity, regulates the part of the AC that is the correct polarity and sends it out a single wire, usually fused and connected to the charging terminal on the key switch. When the key switch in in the on position, it connects the charging output to the battery power in the system.
On higher amp output charging systems, there are differently designed systems, but the majority of the systems 15-20 amps and smaller are the basic type as described above. If battery power is left connected to these systems, power will backfeed thru the R/R and into the stator and attempt to rotate the flywheel and will discharge a fully charged battery fairly quickly and may damage the R/R.

Yep.
Happens all the time on tractors that have a manual PTO and thus the small alternators.

 

[motoman]

Are y'all saying that in many cases PTO - related battery drain is due to ignition switches left on or diode failure? And again ,can a static current test (no spinning blades) detect current flow ? (Again what seems simple may still reuire some thought)

Sorry, this belongs with the PTO thread, but I could not deleted it just now.

 

[ILENGINE]

Only if they are a relatively new mower with a real regulator & a 10A or higher charging system.
There is nothing in the B&S 3 to 5 A systems to regulate the charging, just a single diode which is only just barely able to do its job.

Even the Briggs 3/5 amp dual circuit charging system has battery voltage at the equipment side of the diode, or what is referred to as a unregulated half wave rectifier.

I haven't seen battery excited voltage regulators since Onan and Kohler stopped using them in possibly the mid 70s. Starter/generators have battery voltage at the regulator, but they went away back then also.
AC comes out of the stator in two wires that connect to the regulator/rectifier, the R/R blocks the part of the AC that is the wrong polarity, regulates the part of the AC that is the correct polarity and sends it out a single wire, usually fused and connected to the charging terminal on the key switch. When the key switch in in the on position, it connects the charging output to the battery power in the system.
On higher amp output charging systems, there are differently designed systems, but the majority of the systems 15-20 amps and smaller are the basic type as described above. If battery power is left connected to these systems, power will backfeed thru the R/R and into the stator and attempt to rotate the flywheel and will discharge a fully charged battery fairly quickly and may damage the R/R.

Mad, the briggs and kohler regulator rectifiers require battery voltage at the regulator to close the micro switch internal to allow power output. No battery voltage at the regulator no power output. Also Kohler also has told there dealers that if they find a charging system on a mower that is wired through the key switch to remove the wire and wire it to the battery side of the starter solenoid. The "if we don't kill power to the charging system it will drain the battery was a lie told by several OEM's that hasn't been true for 30 years."

You are right the regulator on modern mowers will drain the battery if you don't disconnect the battery from the regulator. It only takes 6-9 months.

Also if you are getting battery voltage at the stator, that means the diodes in the rectifier have failed. And even if they were failed, the current has no place to go since the stator isn't grounded. Since there is no current flow through the stator then there isn't any way to turn the stator into an starter armature.

Rant off/

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi ILengine,
I'm not here to bust your chops, but I do have several questions/comments for you.
Comments first:
I have one tractor that has an 18 Vanguard horizontal shaft engine of 2004 production, 16 AMP regulated charging system, two yellow wires and one red wire, grounded housing regulator.
I also have a Scag Tiger Cub repower that has a 30 Briggs Professional Turf vertical shaft engine 2012 production, 16 AMP regulated charging system, same type regulator.
Both machines have six terminal key switches, and when in the off position, isolate the charging system from the battery.
I just checked both machines by disconnecting the red wire at the regulators and connecting in an ammeter. Key switch in off position, no current flow, key switch on, 1.4 AMP current flow.
Questions:
Where is the 1.4 AMP current flow going?
At a 1.4 AMP discharge, how long would it take to discharge a 420CA (30 AMP Hour) rated battery?
Why are six terminal key switches still installed on machines with engines of this type?
Why is the sixth terminal connected to the charging system output?
Why when in the off position does the key switch open the circuit from battery power to the charging system output?
Mad Mackie in CT::smile: