post proof of bad ethanol problems

[phcaan]

Your first statement is NOT a fact!!! See the link below for non-ethanol stations in Missouri.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

I am glad to see this list, however it is the law here, and as someone pointed out this is the case unless straight gas is less expensive than the stuff with ethanol, some stations may have one grade that is ethanol free. The Sinclair station in Cabool also known as the El Rancho truck stop has one grade that is ethanol free.
Here in Willow Springs the Caseys station has dropped their unleaded plus for the time being do to the fact that they did not meet the mandate. I am told when they work it out they will again offer both unleaded and unleaded plus, both containing ethanol.
I stopped today on my way to Springfield and talked to the folks at the Sinclair and they told me that one of their grades was ethanol free but the girl did not know which one, I'll stop in later and talk to the manage about it. It is only 10 miles away so I can easily go over there to get fuel for my stuff.

 

[mullins87]

No real proof here, just observation. I've been mowing for nearly 40 years and driving for nearly 30 years. E10 did not become predominant in our area until about 7-8 years ago. When that switch was made, I almost immediately noticed a 1-1.5 mpg drop in all four of my on-road vehicles. The oldest one being a '95, however I had no issues with the E10, other than the mileage. The other issues I noticed were in my two-stroke equipment. Within two years of the switch I had to start replacing the fuel lines, and about every two years since then. My four-stroke equipment has not had an issues either. My procedure for storing my equipment is as follows.....fill the tank mixed with the proper amount of Stabil, run the equipment long enough for the Stabil to become noticable in the exhaust(I can smell it, others can't), then shut off the fuel and let the carb run dry, and finally remove the battery if it has one. On the small two-stroke equipment, I drain the fuel, refill a small amount with fuel mixed with Stabil and let it run until it's out of gas. Other than having to replace the fuel lines on the two-strokes about every two years, I have no issues. Everything always starts right up in the spring and runs like a champ. I've done this for more than 20 years now.

Two questions: First, if ethanol is not to blame, or at least part of the cause, then why did I never have to replace a fuel line on any two-stroke equipment before E10? And secondly, why am I only having to replace the fuel lines on my two-stroke equipment, but not on any four-stroke equipment? I have more four-stroke equipment than what is listed in my signature, such as a 30+ year old Troy Bilt tiller.

BTW: This has been a good discussion. :thumbsup:

 

[s10sleeper]

No real proof here, just observation. I've been mowing for nearly 40 years and driving for nearly 30 years. E10 did not become predominant in our area until about 7-8 years ago. When that switch was made, I almost immediately noticed a 1-1.5 mpg drop in all four of my on-road vehicles. The oldest one being a '95, however I had no issues with the E10, other than the mileage. The other issues I noticed were in my two-stroke equipment. Within two years of the switch I had to start replacing the fuel lines, and about every two years since then. My four-stroke equipment has not had an issues either. My procedure for storing my equipment is as follows.....fill the tank mixed with the proper amount of Stabil, run the equipment long enough for the Stabil to become noticable in the exhaust(I can smell it, others can't), then shut off the fuel and let the carb run dry, and finally remove the battery if it has one. On the small two-stroke equipment, I drain the fuel, refill a small amount with fuel mixed with Stabil and let it run until it's out of gas. Other than having to replace the fuel lines on the two-strokes about every two years, I have no issues. Everything always starts right up in the spring and runs like a champ. I've done this for more than 20 years now.

Two questions: First, if ethanol is not to blame, or at least part of the cause, then why did I never have to replace a fuel line on any two-stroke equipment before E10? And secondly, why am I only having to replace the fuel lines on my two-stroke equipment, but not on any four-stroke equipment? I have more four-stroke equipment than what is listed in my signature, such as a 30+ year old Troy Bilt tiller.

BTW: This has been a good discussion. :thumbsup:

I see your point, with all of my equipment, I run fuel injection fuel line, and that has extended the life of them. In college we did learn that you can see a small drop in mileage, which there always seems to be a compromise like that with alternative fuels, similar to a loss in HP when using LP in a vehicle in exchange for cheaper operation.

 

[Ric]

The question I have is that with all these so called problems that's being blamed on ethanol, why is it that it seems to be just the last four or five years and not for all the years it has been available and has been being used. Rivets posted about 4 years ago we started seeing equipment coming back four to five months after it has be in for routine tune-ups and complete check overs, problems we were seeing, but confined to, surging, lean running engines, fuel line problems in two-cycle equipment and if ethanol is the blame why didn't we see it previous years?

 

[djdicetn]

I am glad to see this list, however it is the law here, and as someone pointed out this is the case unless straight gas is less expensive than the stuff with ethanol, some stations may have one grade that is ethanol free. The Sinclair station in Cabool also known as the El Rancho truck stop has one grade that is ethanol free.
Here in Willow Springs the Caseys station has dropped their unleaded plus for the time being do to the fact that they did not meet the mandate. I am told when they work it out they will again offer both unleaded and unleaded plus, both containing ethanol.
I stopped today on my way to Springfield and talked to the folks at the Sinclair and they told me that one of their grades was ethanol free but the girl did not know which one, I'll stop in later and talk to the manage about it. It is only 10 miles away so I can easily go over there to get fuel for my stuff.

By no means did I intend to "offend" or imply you "lied". Many times, due to lack of advertising or information, folks don't know non-ethanol is available in their area. I got a comment discussing this with my father-in-law yesterday when I mentioned that Alaska, lucky dogs......with all those pipelines, ONLY have non-ethanol gas. The comment was....maybe ethanol gas has a lower temperature that it freezes. That kinda makes sense, but I don't know that it is a fact(and if it is indeed a fact, areas of the U.S. that see extremely low temps in the winter could also see some problems with that).....any comments from some of you "Northerners"???????

 

[Rivets]

Frozen gas, now I've seen it all!! Ethanol is an alcohol, alcohol attracts moisture, moisture attracts corrosion and corrosion in carbs puts money in my pocket. My memory isn't what it used to be, but about 6years ago, about the time of the horsepower lawsuit, the engine manufacturers started leaning out their carbs to meet the California emission rules. This resulted in even smaller jets and passageways in the carbs. Couple this with the corrosive problems of the ethanol fuels and the problem shows itself.

 

[djdicetn]

Frozen gas, now I've seen it all!! Ethanol is an alcohol, alcohol attracts moisture, moisture attracts corrosion and corrosion in carbs puts money in my pocket. My memory isn't what it used to be, but about 6years ago, about the time of the horsepower lawsuit, the engine manufacturers started leaning out their carbs to meet the California emission rules. This resulted in even smaller jets and passageways in the carbs. Couple this with the corrosive problems of the ethanol fuels and the problem shows itself.

Hey, I'm just the messenger, please don't "re-load":0)
Maybe not frozen "gas"...OR....frozen "ethanol/alcohol"......as that's not an inherent property of either. But what about "frozen attracted moisture" causing problems??? Or...maybe YOU have a theory as to WHY Alaska has no ethanol????????? They are a "State" of the U.S. just like the rest of us....so what makes them so "special"?????

 

[phcaan]

Hey, I'm just the messenger, please don't "re-load":0)
Maybe not frozen "gas"...OR....frozen "ethanol/alcohol"......as that's not an inherent property of either. But what about "frozen attracted moisture" causing problems??? Or...maybe YOU have a theory as to WHY Alaska has no ethanol????????? They are a "State" of the U.S. just like the rest of us....so what makes them so "special"?????

Well as cold as it is they probably drink it before they can put it in the fuel, then they don't care how cold it is.
When I lived in Wyoming we had to be sure to add "Heat" to out fuel well in advance of winter to make sure there was no moisture in the fuel system or come winter we were walking.

 

[mullins87]

The question I have is that with all these so called problems that's being blamed on ethanol, why is it that it seems to be just the last four or five years and not for all the years it has been available and has been being used. Rivets posted about 4 years ago we started seeing equipment coming back four to five months after it has be in for routine tune-ups and complete check overs, problems we were seeing, but confined to, surging, lean running engines, fuel line problems in two-cycle equipment and if ethanol is the blame why didn't we see it previous years?

Well, I can't comment on the rest of the country, so I can only comment on here, where I have lived my entire life. While E10 may have been the norm for many, many years, it has been the norm around here for only a few, short years. In my situation, the only problems I have noticed are the failing fuel lines in my two-stroke equipment and a drop in mileage in my on-road vehicles. Both problems surfaced at about the same time, which just happen to correspond with the arrival of E10 in my area. What else has changed? Maybe the fuel lines are built out of cheaper material from China. All by itself, I can accept that possibility. But I know for a fact that nothing changed with my vehicles.

 

[lchiefan]

I have a '52 ford 8n. I put e10 in it accidently and it cleaned the gas tank out so well that it clogged up the carb. so bad it required an overhaul. Also, ethanol cannot be transported in a pipe line because it will rust out the lines. it must be hauled by truck. if you require proof, why do the auto manufactures make a e10 rated vehicle now?