post proof of bad ethanol problems

[exotion]

So I am not the only one getting annoyed at every problem getting blamed on ethanol.

I want proof. Actual with sources proof posted here.

If you can find some hard evidence and facts let me know.

 

[Carscw]

All your going to hear is. I saw it happen to fuel lines. I have asked the same thing because I have never had a problem because of it.

(( cowboy up and get over it ))

 

[exotion]

That's why I asked for proof " I saw" does not count as proof. Show me pics, internet sites that state proof

 

[Brucebotti]

That's all we have here in CT is 10% ethanol, and I have never encountered a problem with it.
Bruce

 

[chobbs1957]

That's why I asked for proof " I saw" does not count as proof. Show me pics, internet sites that state proof

Maybe I'm gullible and naive! I grew up around cars, and spent some years working in a service station as teenager back in the mid-70's, when you bought gas, got oil changes, and got minor repairs at the local service station. I've been running lawn mowers since I was about 8 years old.

Those were the days before electronic fuel injection, even before electronic ignition cars. We had much different blends of gasoline then. Engines were designed to run a much richer fuel to air mix. It was common to have to rebuild carburetors after about 3-5 years or 60-80K miles. They were challenging to keep adjusted properly.

I understand

• E10 gas is 10% ethanol, a close cousin, if you will, to alchohol. Alcohol did not use to be in gasolines back in the day when carburetors were being developed.
• Ethanol blends of gasoline, I am told and believe, tend to attract more moisture and condensation where stored.
• Outdoor power equipment units have small carburetors, and thus more sensitive to operating under adverse conditions of fuel or air.
• Lines, o-rings, seals, etc. are materials that will deteriorate and lose their texture, negatively affecting their ability to seal against fuel and air leaks. Alcohol in the gasoline, even at low levels of 10%, after lengthy use or long term storage may understandably have a negative effect on the lines, o-rings, seals, and gaskets that were not designed for it.
• I have read that nearly all internal combustion engines are now designed to run a lean fuel-air ratio, trying to make them burn cleaner. This makes it that much harder to get the power from the fuel-air mix, as the engine power demand will be wanting more from the carburetor.
• To compete, many manufacturers look at any way they can to keep manufacturing margins up, as competition, both foreign and domestic, will force them to squeeze every dollar they can.

The problems we see with poor quality fuel on smaller power equipment today are very similar to what we saw on cars back in the heyday of carburetors, only worse. Avoiding ethanol based gasoline is part of total preventive management plan, but it is not a single solution to guaranteeing no fuel system problems.

While I may fail to exercise the discipline necessary to keep it up, my plan includes:

• Using ethanol free gasoline. I drive to a convenience store twenty miles away about once a month and fill 2-5 cans of 5 gallons each. I have other business in that town, and a couple of places there that sell no-ethanol gas.
• I add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to the can.
• if a piece of equipment is going to go more than three weeds without being cranked, shut off the fuel and run it until it is dry and shuts down.
• I use high quality Stihl synthetic 2-cycle mix for my handheld stuff. I bought a six pack each time I bought a new piece, as they offered a 1 year warranty extension if I bought and agreed to use it.
• I am using a Mr. Funnel system to transfer fuel. It filters out impurities in gas, including water.

I work as an agronomist with commercial farming operations. Much of what we deal with in maximizing crop production inputs to increase profits in our fields involves a "total management strategy" approach. It makes no difference, for example, to buy the best hybrid of corn that has the genetics for a top yield if you do a poor job of fertilizing, tillage, weed control, or insect control. Some things we know to manage with a mindset to prevent problems, others we manage once the problem manifests itself. I guess I am applying some of the same logic with power equipment maintenance. The old saying that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" applies, and may not have ever been more applicable with outdoor power equipment than it is with today's mix of fuel and common equipment.

I am sure I will still have problems sooner or later, even fuel system troubles. Over the decades, my number one problem with 4 cycle equipment has been burning oil and carburetors second. My number one problem with handheld equipment is carburetors. I plan to reduce the chances of carburetor failure with this program, while increasing the the chances of keeping things easy to crank.

 

[djdicetn]

So I am not the only one getting annoyed at every problem getting blamed on ethanol.

I want proof. Actual with sources proof posted here.

If you can find some hard evidence and facts let me know.

You can prove it yourself. Here's how:

1)Take one(any) of your mowers out of service in regard to your business.

2)Fill it up at the beginning of the season with fresh regular/unleaded/ethanol gasoline.

3)Start it and run the engine for 30 minutes and turn it off.

4)Store the mower until the end of the season.

5)Get the mower out at the end of the season and start it up, running it for 30 minutes and turn it off.

6)Store the mower for the winter.

7)Next beginning of the season start the mower(if it will). Top up with more ethanol gas and repeat Steps 2-6.

If this mower isn't "ruined" in 2 seasons....at most 3 seasons of this regiment of ethanol gas, you've proved it isn't harmful......otherwise you have your proof.

It's more the moisture/water that the ethanol additive attracts(no combustion engine is designed to run on a high percentage content of water) as well as the ethanol itself(in regards to long periods of storage in regular gas lines).

Personally, I don't need proof as I've only got one lawn mower, cannot afford to take it out of service to prove that ethanol is bad for it and am just not willing to gamble.

Again, I reiterate....if a Kawasaki manual specifically states that using gasoline with ethanol in excess of 10% "voids the engine warranty" why doe they say that??? My interpretation of that is why would 11% be harmful(your position on ethanol)???? If 11% is that bad, IMHO 1% can't be "good".

P.S.
I can honestly say that I have "performed the steps above" years ago with "regular/unleaded/non-ethanol" gasoline in a lawn tractor I purchased in 1993. I did this for better than 19 years(never draining the gas tank or shutting off the fuel supply at the end of the season). I actually NEVER had any fuel-related problems with that mower that was retired in 2012(19 years of running non-ethanol gas). I sure wouldn't try that with ethanol gasoline!!!! I put ethanol gas in a front-tine tiller and the next season it wouldn't start. Sea-Foam got it going again, but it still has to have the choke partially on to keep it from dying. That's enough proof for me:0)

 

[Carscw]

You can prove it yourself. Here's how:

1)Take one(any) of your mowers out of service in regard to your business.

2)Fill it up at the beginning of the season with fresh regular/unleaded/ethanol gasoline.

3)Start it and run the engine for 30 minutes and turn it off.

4)Store the mower until the end of the season.

5)Get the mower out at the end of the season and start it up, running it for 30 minutes and turn it off.

6)Store the mower for the winter.

7)Next beginning of the season start the mower(if it will). Top up with more ethanol gas and repeat Steps 2-6.

If this mower isn't "ruined" in 2 seasons....at most 3 seasons of this regiment of ethanol gas, you've proved it isn't harmful......otherwise you have your proof.

It's more the moisture/water that the ethanol additive attracts(no combustion engine is designed to run on a high percentage content of water) as well as the ethanol itself(in regards to long periods of storage in regular gas lines).

Personally, I don't need proof as I've only got one lawn mower, cannot afford to take it out of service to prove that ethanol is bad for it and am just not willing to gamble.

Again, I reiterate....if a Kawasaki manual specifically states that using gasoline with ethanol in excess of 10% "voids the engine warranty" why doe they say that??? My interpretation of that is why would 11% be harmful(your position on ethanol)???? If 11% is that bad, IMHO 1% can't be "good".

P.S.
I can honestly say that I have "performed the steps above" years ago with "regular/unleaded/non-ethanol" gasoline in a lawn tractor I purchased in 1993. I did this for better than 19 years(never draining the gas tank or shutting off the fuel supply at the end of the season). I actually NEVER had any fuel-related problems with that mower that was retired in 2012(19 years of running non-ethanol gas). I sure wouldn't try that with ethanol gasoline!!!! I put ethanol gas in a front-tine tiller and the next season it wouldn't start. Sea-Foam got it going again, but it still has to have the choke partially on to keep it from dying. That's enough proof for me:0)

Nice story but you can not do a test like this with just one mower it would not prove anything.

You would need two mowers same make and model both brand new one with ethanol and one without. I bet they both end up the same.


Ok a man brings his blower to a pawn shop starts it to show it runs. They put it in the back room with gas still in it. 120 days later after he does not come back for it they put it on the floor to sell 5 people start it in the next month still on the old gas. Now you go in and buy it and add more has and it runs just fine for the next year. How can this be? I will tell how.
Because this is all made up bullshit from the mower builders to explain why the bellow grade cheap **** the use to build their mowers falls apart in a year.

I have mowers out back that sit for months I can go start any of them and cut the grass with no problems.

For many years we would go buy stuff to add to our gas well guess what it all has ethanol in it.

So still no one can prove that ethanol does any harm.

(( cowboy up and get over it ))

 

[afoulk]

No one, not even the car manufacturers, unless the fuel system is specifically rated to run on E85, recommends running anything more than E10 because of the corrosive properties of the ethanol and the damage it can do to hoses and orings. Other than that, and the decrease in fuel economy (many reported seeing as much as 2mpg less when gas stations began switching to the e10), I see no disadvantage to using e10. Straight gas might run better, but I've been using e10 in all mystuff, and all I do is treat it with some stabil over the winter and havn't had any issues.

 

[exotion]

You can prove it yourself. Here's how:

1)Take one(any) of your mowers out of service in regard to your business.

2)Fill it up at the beginning of the season with fresh regular/unleaded/ethanol gasoline.

3)Start it and run the engine for 30 minutes and turn it off.

4)Store the mower until the end of the season.

5)Get the mower out at the end of the season and start it up, running it for 30 minutes and turn it off.

6)Store the mower for the winter.

7)Next beginning of the season start the mower(if it will). Top up with more ethanol gas and repeat Steps 2-6.

If this mower isn't "ruined" in 2 seasons....at most 3 seasons of this regiment of ethanol gas, you've proved it isn't harmful......otherwise you have your proof.

It's more the moisture/water that the ethanol additive attracts(no combustion engine is designed to run on a high percentage content of water) as well as the ethanol itself(in regards to long periods of storage in regular gas lines).

Personally, I don't need proof as I've only got one lawn mower, cannot afford to take it out of service to prove that ethanol is bad for it and am just not willing to gamble.

Again, I reiterate....if a Kawasaki manual specifically states that using gasoline with ethanol in excess of 10% "voids the engine warranty" why doe they say that??? My interpretation of that is why would 11% be harmful(your position on ethanol)???? If 11% is that bad, IMHO 1% can't be "good".

P.S.
I can honestly say that I have "performed the steps above" years ago with "regular/unleaded/non-ethanol" gasoline in a lawn tractor I purchased in 1993. I did this for better than 19 years(never draining the gas tank or shutting off the fuel supply at the end of the season). I actually NEVER had any fuel-related problems with that mower that was retired in 2012(19 years of running non-ethanol gas). I sure wouldn't try that with ethanol gasoline!!!! I put ethanol gas in a front-tine tiller and the next season it wouldn't start. Sea-Foam got it going again, but it still has to have the choke partially on to keep it from dying. That's enough proof for me:0)

I believe your test would prove more human error and failure to properly use and maintain your equipment that's not proof.

 

[jtk]

I have worked with small engines all my life. My Dad owned an outdoor power equipment dealership and this topic came up quite often. Ethanol is not bad for a small engine. What is bad is when you allow ethanol blended fuel to sit in the tank or the carb for extended periods of time. The earlier post was on the money. Ethanol attracts condensation. Over time this can damage carburetors and internal engine parts. If you use your equipment everyday and run all he fuel out everyday you will not have any issues. Years ago, fuel lines could not hold up to ethanol blended fuels. This is not the case today.

If you are homeowner who only runs a few tanks a year through your equipment I would say you should buy fuel with no ethanol. If you use your equipment everyday it won't matter as long as you don't leave the fuel in while you store it over the winter. I myself am a typical homeowner now. I work on small engines for fun and to relax. I never drain my fuel over the winter, I only use the highest octane fuel I can find at the gas station and I never, ever have an issue starting my equipment come springtime. I made plenty of money each spring (and winter with snowblowers) from people who did not do this. I also worked with plenty of Lawn cutting services who only bought 87 octane blended fuel that never had an issue. This is a topic that will be debated for quite some time to come, I'm sure.