post proof of bad ethanol problems

[djdicetn]

If the EPA has there way and if they decide on E15 instead of just jumping to the E85, What I'll use will be decided by the equipment I'm using. When and if E15 hits the market I would guess that they would already have the equipment for it's use already for sale so I would be replacing what I have with new if the old couldn't be converted. As far as me seeking out the E10.... No...I wouldn't look for it or go out of my way to find it anymore than I have for ethanol free gas, In my opinion seeking out Ethanol free gas to run when I have equipment that is very capable of running E10 is ridiculous and a waste of time and money and not away to show a larger profit for the business, say nothing about trying to explain it to an auditor why I'm doing that when I get deductions on gas use.

The thing I think that bothers me is the E85 that's already available and being sold at stations for FFV's. As I said there are 10 stations in Florida now that have and sell E85 and almost 3000 stations throughout the country. Ford, GM and Dodge have had FFV's on the market since the early 1980's that would run and use E85 and are using it now, so tell me why the EPA should even consider using E15, people may be in for a rude awakening.

I am thoroughly convinced that it makes absolutely no sense for someone(like you) that mows commercially to use non-ethanol gas for the many logical reasons you have given(and the fact that you go through gas so quickly the chances of having fuel system problems is slim or none). I still contend that for homeowners that mow weekly at best there is still a strong argument towards burning the non-ethanol. You may be right about E85 becoming the norm before E15 is even considered. And most likely E10 would continue to be marketed for "pre-FFV" equipment. If they completely do away with non-ethanol(also a very good possibility) I guess I'll use E10 with Stabil and once-a-season SeaFoam treatment:0(
P.S.
of course, they will probably "gouge the consumer price-wise" for E10 after E85 dominates just like they are doing now with non-ethanol:0(

 

[jekjr]

All I low is the techs at both local dealers who sell Stihl tell us that Stihl warns against using it. One tech told me that not to even use a can that had previously had 10% in it. I run 93 octane non ethanol in every thing I have that is gas but my Kubota 222. It has over 200 hours on it and has had no problems so far. The reason I do not run the non ethanol in it is the availability. The places we normally fuel that have off road diesel which I run in my 326 don't have non ethanol. We use a covered trailer and have to unload to fuel. The book says no more than 10% and we fill it often so I go with the flow.

I did run my hand held equipment on it when we started up last summer. I had some carb problems on my cub cadet trimmer early this spring. We used it basically all winter too because it was a split pole and we used th pole saw and other attachments on it basically all winter.

 

[marvinlee]

The best single source of information that I know of is the Coordinating Research Council, Inc. (CRC) of 3650 Mansell Road, Suite 140, Alpharetta, GA 30022. Their best known report is CRC Project CM-136-09-1B, titled,all in capital letters, INTERMEDIATE-LEVEL ETHANOL BLENDS ENGINE DURABILITY STUDY, April 2012. This 97 page report, of which I have two copies, tests ethanol blends in several different engines. Some operated with few problems, others suffered premature engine wear reflected, for some, in valve leakage and high pressure testing leakdown rates. I refer you to the full report for more details.

The report was followed by criticism from both the US Energy Department and various ethanol-advocate groups. Their criticism focused on 1) the fact that one of the several engines tested failed, also, on ordinary gasoline and 2) that the engines were subjected to unusual testing stringency that is not normal to ordinary real-life engine use. The criticism was followed by a strong rebuttal from the CRC.

My best interpretation is that ethanol performs adequately in most engines, most of the time, but that certain operating conditions that are not yet well defined can result in engine problems for some engines. That is pretty vague, and probably has to be considering the hundreds of millions of engines of all ages and accumulated hours in operation and the vast variations in how they are used, stored, fueled, and maintained.

I don't attach much broad importance to personal experience. For what little it is worth, I've used Oregon's 10% ethanol blend in, among others, a 40-year old garden tractor with a cast-iron Briggs and Stratton 32-cubic inch engine which is normally operated at full throttle and RPM; seven different chainsaws of varied age and engine time, an old Cadillac with the cast-iron V8 engine designed back in the 1950's, a late model Subaru with the naturally aspirated six cylinder engine, a four-cycle Honda and a four-cycle Dolmar water pump, both of which operate at full RPM when used. They are stored most of the time without draining fuel beforehand. In past years, we have used ethanol fuel in a Suzuki six cylinder car with Alusil cylinders, where the cylinders are the base aluminum alloy etched to reveal silicon crystals which provide the wearing surface. In all these engines, and several that I've forgotten, we had no observable problems with Oregon's ethanol fuel. A friend who does considerable chainsawing refuses to use any ethanol fuel in his chainsaws and pays a high price for specialty ethanol-free, high octane fuel, which is legal for some uses in Oregon. I hope that all of the above helps shed some light on the real complexity of the ethanol fuel issue.

So I am not the only one getting annoyed at every problem getting blamed on ethanol. I want proof. Actual with sources proof posted here. If you can find some hard evidence and facts let me know.

 

[phcaan]

All I low is the techs at both local dealers who sell Stihl tell us that Stihl warns against using it. One tech told me that not to even use a can that had previously had 10% in it. I run 93 octane non ethanol in every thing I have that is gas but my Kubota 222. It has over 200 hours on it and has had no problems so far. The reason I do not run the non ethanol in it is the availability. The places we normally fuel that have off road diesel which I run in my 326 don't have non ethanol. We use a covered trailer and have to unload to fuel. The book says no more than 10% and we fill it often so I go with the flow.

I did run my hand held equipment on it when we started up last summer. I had some carb problems on my cub cadet trimmer early this spring. We used it basically all winter too because it was a split pole and we used th pole saw and other attachments on it basically all winter.

Here in Missouri all the fuel is mandated by law to contain 10% ethanol. I have not had a problem with it but toward the middle of the summer when my grass slows down I start adding 1oz per gallon of Seafoam to all the fuel that I use in my mower and small equipment. Seafoam helps with the fuel separation problem. And at the end of the summer on my last mowings I add an additional amount of Marvel Mystery oil to the cans when I fill them. I have never drained my equipment and have never in the last 20 years had fuel related problems.
I retired from an oil company and while I was with them many customers insisted that the manufactures recommended no ethanol be used in their equipment. I personally called every manufacturer that I was told did not recommend ethanol and every one of them including Stihl told me that 10% ethanol was standard motor fuel in the United States and would not harm their equipment. Every one of them however cautioned that the fuel should be kept fresh and the oil fuel mix should be shaken before added to the equipment.
I personally would prefer to use non ethanol fuel but it is not available in my area.

 

[jekjr]

One other note on this subject. If you believe something no evidence is necessary. If you do not believe something no evidence is sufficient.

 

[djdicetn]

Here in Missouri all the fuel is mandated by law to contain 10% ethanol. I have not had a problem with it but toward the middle of the summer when my grass slows down I start adding 1oz per gallon of Seafoam to all the fuel that I use in my mower and small equipment. Seafoam helps with the fuel separation problem. And at the end of the summer on my last mowings I add an additional amount of Marvel Mystery oil to the cans when I fill them. I have never drained my equipment and have never in the last 20 years had fuel related problems.
I retired from an oil company and while I was with them many customers insisted that the manufactures recommended no ethanol be used in their equipment. I personally called every manufacturer that I was told did not recommend ethanol and every one of them including Stihl told me that 10% ethanol was standard motor fuel in the United States and would not harm their equipment. Every one of them however cautioned that the fuel should be kept fresh and the oil fuel mix should be shaken before added to the equipment.
I personally would prefer to use non ethanol fuel but it is not available in my area.

Your first statement is NOT a fact!!! See the link below for non-ethanol stations in Missouri.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

 

[bouncer959]

If you have any Trimmer fuel Line lying around, let it sin in a container of gasoline with ethanol for several months and see what happens to it. Manufactures are trying make better fuel system products to deal with the problem used in newer equipment.
Older units utilizing common standard Rubber lines and gaskets are especially vulnerable to damage from sitting up for a while when using E10. It also causes "O" rings to swell.

 

[possum]

Missouri has a mandated law unless the pure gas is cheaper or is premium. Out of 166 gas stations you should be able to find one with non ethanol. Most of the handheld brands are offering canned fuel. Before long they all will and they will all want you to use it. Extended warranties will likely be the motivation. Husqvarna already extends the warranty if you buy their fuel. I would imagine more money will be made off the fuel than the units themselves.

 

[Rivets]

Anyone living in Missouri can find non-ethanol fuel on this website.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

 

[s10sleeper]

The only proof that I can say is from college, experience and GM training. On newer gas engines they are designed to handle ethanol. Ethanol has a tendency to dry out most gaskets and rubber used on older equipment. Many newer engines use neoprene o rings which can handle it. Newer overhaul kits are available for most engines and carbs unless the carbs are only available to purchase new, such as when Kawasaki bought out one of Keihins carburetors for the John Deere old silver bullets.