HoHoHo

[StarTech]

And here I thought it was the Mob was in charge.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Crony capitalism, crony socialism, the results are he same
Then bulk of the population gets poorer and the top 10 % suck up all the money for themselves.

The USA led the world with your anti-trust laws which have been watered down to a point now days that they are a joke.
Microsoft is the perfect example of this.
A company that stole an idea from one compeditor ( apple ) then stole a product from another one ( IBM ) then was allowed to become a virtual monopoly which stiffelled all emerging softwear developeres .
The USA auto industry went from a healthy competition to a cosy duopoly to the detriment of all Americans .
All because the government would not enforce the rules that keeps the system honest.
The instant a new industry is established, all of the parties instantly form cartels to subvert the rules , we call them "chambers of commerse" or "industry associations" but in reality they are there to protect the position of the established players to the detriment of new entrants thus subverting true competition .
If the USA was a true capitalist system they would embrace unionism but instead the management did everything they could to destroy them, the opposite of what Germans did which is why Benz took over Chrysler & VW became the worlds biggest car maker .
A workforce that works with management is a very very powerful entity a management that is at war with it's workforce is on a path of self destruction.

Then we have the sick perversion of capitalism,,,, consolodated capitalism where a very small number of shareholders gain control of a company sucking it dry like a leach then going on to do the same to other businezsses. And we won't mention banks , millions of hard working people world wide sent into poverty by a greedy few that the government refused to reign in.
And on the same subject, what do you call a system where the government uses borrowed money to bail out the richest people on the planet because "the banks are too big to be allowed to fail"
In real capitalism, those who had invested in a badly run business lost their money when the business failed and hopefully a better team picks up the assets ( loans in the case of a bank ) at bargan basement prices and runs the business better .
What happened, the innocent ( loan holders ) got shafted & sent broke despite the fact they had not defaulted on their commitments and those who had broke the rules, committed crimes got bailed out .
Have a good loo at the board of Boeing & explain why the bunch of losers who sent McDonald Douglass broke ended up on the board & seniour managements positions of Boeing, replacing the board that had been running Boeing at a healthy profit and in the space of no time had Boeing on it's knees

 

[PTmowerMech]

And here I thought it was the Mob was in charge.

Which mob are you talking about? "We the people" mob? Or the capital mob?

 

[PTmowerMech]

Crony capitalism, crony socialism, the results are he same
Then bulk of the population gets poorer and the top 10 % suck up all the money for themselves.

The USA led the world with your anti-trust laws which have been watered down to a point now days that they are a joke.
Microsoft is the perfect example of this.
A company that stole an idea from one compeditor ( apple ) then stole a product from another one ( IBM ) then was allowed to become a virtual monopoly which stiffelled all emerging softwear developeres .
The USA auto industry went from a healthy competition to a cosy duopoly to the detriment of all Americans .
All because the government would not enforce the rules that keeps the system honest.
The instant a new industry is established, all of the parties instantly form cartels to subvert the rules , we call them "chambers of commerse" or "industry associations" but in reality they are there to protect the position of the established players to the detriment of new entrants thus subverting true competition .
If the USA was a true capitalist system they would embrace unionism but instead the management did everything they could to destroy them, the opposite of what Germans did which is why Benz took over Chrysler & VW became the worlds biggest car maker .
A workforce that works with management is a very very powerful entity a management that is at war with it's workforce is on a path of self destruction.

Then we have the sick perversion of capitalism,,,, consolodated capitalism where a very small number of shareholders gain control of a company sucking it dry like a leach then going on to do the same to other businezsses. And we won't mention banks , millions of hard working people world wide sent into poverty by a greedy few that the government refused to reign in.
And on the same subject, what do you call a system where the government uses borrowed money to bail out the richest people on the planet because "the banks are too big to be allowed to fail"
In real capitalism, those who had invested in a badly run business lost their money when the business failed and hopefully a better team picks up the assets ( loans in the case of a bank ) at bargan basement prices and runs the business better .
What happened, the innocent ( loan holders ) got shafted & sent broke despite the fact they had not defaulted on their commitments and those who had broke the rules, committed crimes got bailed out .
Have a good loo at the board of Boeing & explain why the bunch of losers who sent McDonald Douglass broke ended up on the board & seniour managements positions of Boeing, replacing the board that had been running Boeing at a healthy profit and in the space of no time had Boeing on it's knees

There's a HUGE difference between plain old fashion capitalism and crony capitalism. Most of us small business owners practice plain old fashion capitalism.

A good example of Crony capitalism is pipeline and oil companies having the "authority" to exercise eminent domain. The crony part of this is the government giving them the authority to do so. Even though gas & oil is not for public use. It's a private company selling a private product to the public. The 5th Amendment to the US Constitution is all about the governments authority over suspected criminals. But for some reason, the government was bought and forced to say that the last line was meant for corporations with enough money to do so.

The 5th Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Notice the last line? From a common sense stand point, this would mean that the justice system can't confiscate a suspected criminals property without paying them for it. Example: Someone's house get raided for drugs. Drugs are found, the person is found guilty and goes to jail for 90 days. The government can't take that persons house without paying him a fair market value. So sayeth the US Constitution. No one, including me, cares what happens to druggies. Whether they lose their homes, cars or even their lives really. But I do care about the interpretation of the US constitution and the way they allow their biggest donors to interpret it the way it suits them.
Another example of Crony capitalism was in Mayflower Arkansas, when an oil filled pipeline burst and flooded a neighborhood. Oil companies having the backing of the politicians, paid the homeowners for their houses. BUT, they paid them the market valve of the property AFTER the ground was polluted with the oil. Not what it was worth before. Which would've been at least quadruple.

Crony capitalism reeks of government intervention. Plain ole capitalism doesn't want government interference, because it doesn't need it.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

Crony capitalism reeks of government intervention. Plain ole capitalism doesn't want government interference, because it doesn't need it.

Personally i think i fall in line more with the Libertarian politics. Republican/conservatives is the next best thing, i feel there isn't enough support nationally yet with the libertarian parties (as far as senate,house and the Presidency) so i support the republican ticket since i don't want what the left is offering. and telling me what i need.

 

[PTmowerMech]

Personally i think i fall in line more with the Libertarian politics. Republican/conservatives is the next best thing, i feel there isn't enough support nationally yet with the libertarian parties (as far as senate,house and the Presidency) so i support the republican ticket since i don't want what the left is offering. and telling me what i need.

I used to exactly like that. But when the GOP threw Ron Paul under the bus, when John Boehner kicked Justin Amash off the Congressional Budget committee (for trying to actually balance the budget), that was it for me. Now when a republican says anything about the budget, the deficit or spending, I just SMH.
The only real difference between the R & D's in their rhetoric. At least the democrats are honest about being spend freaks. The GOP will spend trillion$ of the same BS the democrats spend on. But they'll find a way to blame the democrats.
Justin Amash is the new Ron Paul. Plus he had the nads to switch to the LP during his term. So we actually have a libertarian congressman, for now. He's not running for re-election. I think he's about to take over some leadership role in the LP help bring some sanity and some decency back to it.
A LOT of weird people have infiltrated the LP in the last decade.
I'd like to see the leadership bring some professionalism into the party. Maybe that'll cut out all the radical libertarians from running for office.

One can only hope. BTW, I tore up my LP card several years ago. So I don't have much hope for them. BUT, I do have my eyes open and ready to join back in if the right changes are made. Justin Amash, I believe, is the Constitutional Conservative to do just that.

 

[bertsmobile1]

There's a HUGE difference between plain old fashion capitalism and crony capitalism. Most of us small business owners practice plain old fashion capitalism.

Crony capitalism reeks of government intervention. Plain ole capitalism doesn't want government interference, because it doesn't need it.

I would argue that point .
For capitalism to work there has to be rules and these rules must be enforced with neither fear nor favour.
And that can only be done by governments
If left unregulated you get things like the GFC which was the direct result of deregulating the banks .
Look at the suicide rate immediately post the GFC in the USA, it came close to doubling over the next 3 years and it was not the Wall St bankers ( the guilty party ) jumping off the World Trade towers .

What has happened with consolidated capital is the majority of shareholders are financial institutions be they pension funds , hedge funds or cash management funds and they will not accept a loss and in particular will not accept a reduction in dividends and if one is heralded then they use their voting power ( which they should never have been allowed to acquire ) to demand one on threat of voting each & every member off the board. Thus in a situation of self preservation boards divert too much profit or in some cases actually borrow money to satisfy the insacable greed of the consolidated share holders .
Company law needs a drastic overhaul both over there and also over here but it will not happen because those who acquire more money every second than the average worker makes in a year will not allow it because it slows down the rate that they can get everything .
Thus Ford & GM buy up every innovative automotive start up and close them down because it is always more profitable to sell you last years car with a bigger motor this year than build a new production line to make the new ( electric for example ) design .
Thus the capital market has failed miserably to deliver for the vast majority of the public.

We have what the USA would call socalist medacine
We are alarmed because today there were 14 new covid cases .
You have capitalist medacine so the big providers make a fortune covid cases regardless of if they live or die thus you have 30,000 new cases daily & increasing.
The last estimate I heard down here was around 1,000,000,000 Americans will die from covid before the seasons turn and you get the upper hand.
16,000 died in the world trade attack and the USA was united in taking action at any cost .
heads rolled in government departments. laws were changed and unlimited funds became available to track down the perps.
350,000 Americans have died from Covid and the politicians are still argueing about the cost of the only effective treatment, a shut down nation wide because of the financial damage to the economy.
Thus some one in capital hill is exercising the capitalist approach to the nations health care, what is the cheapest , let them die or close down & loose dividends for the people whop don't need them to live on ?

This is what a pure capitalist system does.
Take the path of least cost or highest profits regardless of the consequences to others.

 

[PTmowerMech]

True capitalism relies on a non bias court system to protect the innocent. Crony capitalist have judges and DA's bought off to sway the judgement in their favor, regardless of the evidence against them. Note the police unions of the USA who "persuade" those in the right position to allow a criminal cop to get off scott free.
If fracing contaminates your drinking water, and you get sick from it, and you don't have any money. Then your just screwed. Oil companies have the money and influence to postpone any actual court date for as long as you may live.
In an actual free market capitalist society, the court system isn't bought & paid for. It's not influenced by anything other than the law. Politicians who create the laws, also aren't influenced by high financed lobbyist.
In the US, there are laws that protect the innocent. Then there are rich people and corporations who have enough money and influence to not be bothered by the law.
Someone once said "Give me control of the money, and I care not what laws are created." Or something to that effect.

As far as the healthcare in our country goes, I couldn't agree with you more. Being a fiscal conservative myself (not a neo-conservative), I see your point. And our healthcare system is a direct result of crony capitalism. Not plain old fashion capitalism.
Insurance companies in the USA have to go before congress to get a premium increase. The same politicians that complain about the high cost of health insurance for "we the people," are the same ones that give the insurance companies their increases. All the while their healthcare is tax payer funded.
But as a fiscal conservative, I can see a better way for healthcare to become an actual free market, with laws to protect the innocent. And still have very little government influence. That would be for the healthcare professionals to take over the healthcare insurance industry and provide their own health insurance. That way premiums are paid directly to the medical professionals, cutting out the health insurance companies all together. Health insurance (like all of them) are just money brokers. You pay them. They pay the doctors what they want to pay them, and keep the rest for themselves. My idea would put all the money into the medical profession, cutting out the billions the health insurance companies make, and puts it right into the hands of the people who actually treat & cure us.
This would drive the cost of everything in the medical profession down. Everything from basic check ups, to heart transplants and cancer treatment. If it was one single insurance, then employers who provide health benefits to their employers could deduct the money from the employee's pay, just as they do now. Self employed, you'd send your check to the same place.
And the best part of it is, there'd be no "milking" of the insurance companies. For example: Someone has something wrong, so they go to the doctor. The doctor knows exactly what's wrong the first time he see's you. With my idea, you're seen, diagnosed and treated for what's wrong. With what we have now, because doctors get stiffed with every claim they turn in to the insurance companies, they'll run tests and treatments that they know won't fix your problem, because it's the ONLY way to make a profit from the insurance companies. After 4 or 5 visits, several different kinds of medication, the doctor finally treats and cures you for the problem he knew about to begin with.
Example: My knee surgery 4 or 5 years ago, was billed to the insurance company for close to $1,000,000. After all the "insurance discounts," the money received back to the hospital (including the doctor) was about $1,500.
This is why my ex doctor stopped taking my health insurance. She said Medicare paid better than Blue Cross.

 

[bertsmobile1]

I think you are letting the conspiracy side of you get the better of your reasoning.
You also are crediting doctors for being a LOT better than they really are.
There are a lot of really nice people out there practicing medicine who should have been struck off decades ago , there are some who are in it just for the money and again should have been struck off and there are some who genuinely want to help people. It is really no different to any other profession.
The slack doctors just give every one the treatment for whatever is currently going around because as we have seen with Covid, virus spread within a community as do parasites ,

The big killer with unregulated capitalism is again brought home by the current covid crisis.
Ambulances are in high demand, so under an uncontrolled capitalist system there is nothing stopping them jacking up their prices 10, 20, 50 200 times the normal rate.
Same thing for hospital beds and particularly beds with ventilators so because demand is high they could up the price from $ 2000 / day to $ 20,000 / day and people will still pay the price and end up well but homeless & potentially jobless .

Now I am not a communist & believe in free market THEORIES but the market must be regulated to avoid profiteering in times of high demand or crisis.
So labour must have a minimum set fee & prices must have a maximum capped fee so the market find it's own levels within those boundaries .
And those who set these feed must be allowed to do it without fear or favour .
Imagine your granny / parents got covid & died then you find you have inherited a $ 5,000 bill from the ambulance company, a $ 500,000 bill from the hospital , a $ 10,000 bill from the mortuary & a $ 50,000 bill from the funeral home , and these are all the amounts over & above what your insurance covers .
And this is what consolidated capital does because it has one & one only plan and that is to screw the highest possible profit from every situation.

The small government people always overlook the little things like the roads that are needed for their goods to be moved on.
The police that are needed to make sure what is despatched actually arrives.
Corperate regulators are needed to prevent the freight companies adding massive fees after their goods have been loaded
The street lights so their staff can leave after dark without getting mugged in the dark.
The defence force so that South American drug lords don't just march in and take over .
A standards association so they know the quality of things they buy and their staff don't get electrocuted when they turn on a machine
It goes on & on & on

 

[StarTech]

Doctors are only practicing medicine. They haven't gotten to professional level yet. Mine just changed my blood pressure meds the first of December and now my blood pressure even higher.than before with the other meds.