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I have a Toro and a Craftsman push mower. I need to change oil using SAE 30W..............but I need to know if I should be using 2 stroke or 4 stroke type oil

meppwc said:

I have a Toro and a Craftsman push mower. I need to change oil using SAE 30W..............but I need to know if I should be using 2 stroke or 4 stroke type oil

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You do not use 2 stroke oil.
And you do not have to use the so called made for mowers 4 stroke oil. You can use the same brand you put in your car.

I am going to say you have 4 stroke engines so you should keep using the SAE30 oil. Yes you can use either 2 or 4 stroke oil in either engines and get by with it and do no harm. For the price and amount of oil you are using use the right oil for the type of engine you have. This way you will get the most hours out of a engine before a replacement. Back in my earlier years it was one oil for everything and we got by just fine.

Follow the engine owners manual for what type of oil to use. Briggs and Tecumseh is SAE30 and Honda is 10w-30.

We use Rotella 10w30 in everything. It is a syn blend and it can take a beating. I have some really old engines with lots of hours and they all run pretty smooth. Those mowers will fall apart before the engines give up.

Don't use 2stroke oil in a 4 stroke engine... Use the oil that your manual recommends.. brand usually doesn't matter. Don't have a manual use 10w30 .... Again any brand change it regularly

About any big box store has 30 weight oil for lawnmowers. It will state on their somewhere it is for 4 cycle engines.

what is 2 stroke oil like a 20w? we had a customer bring in her toroinated lawnboy 4 stroke,and showed us her can of lawnboy oil,wich was the 2 stroke ashless,my mentor tech said it wouldn't kill it but it wasn't the right weight.

2stroke oil is designed to burn with gas. And is very thin

exotion said:

2stroke oil is designed to burn with gas. And is very thin

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Not saying 2 stroke oil is the right oil to use, Just saying you can get by with it in a 4 cycle engine. It will shorten your engine life. Less then a quart of oil, why not use the right oil and the best.

reynoldston said:

Not saying 2 stroke oil is the right oil to use, Just saying you can get by with it in a 4 cycle engine. It will shorten your engine life. Less then a quart of oil, why not use the right oil and the best.

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I know you can get by running the 2 stroke mix for your gas in a 4 stroke but I wouldn't put the stuff in my crankcase when changing oil.

Ric said:

I know you can get by running the 2 stroke mix for your gas in a 4 stroke but I wouldn't put the stuff in my crankcase when changing oil.

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Yes you can put it in your crankcase and run your engine. Am I advising it NO. Like I said for what little amount it cost why not use the right oil?? All you are asking for by running 2 cycle oil in a 4 cycle engine crankcase is a short life span. I can also remember in my younger days seeing a person that ran fuel oil in his crankcase to flush out the sludge. He just ran it a short amount of time and drained it then installed oil. Another story is a person that ran 50/50 ATF and motor oil in his crankcase. His reasoning was it ran cleaner. Most anything will lubricate the bearings. Not that I would try it but I wouldn't be surprised if you could use cooking oil.

Just go to Walmart and buy a quart of the Super Tech HD30 w/green label for $2.67.

Ric said:

I know you can get by running the 2 stroke mix for your gas in a 4 stroke but I wouldn't put the stuff in my crankcase when changing oil.

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Ya I've done this when I forget to fill my straight gas in the morning I've used 2 cycle before I would never...ever put it in my engine you need proof? Get some paper pour a dab of 30w on there feel how thick it is watch how fast its absorbed into the paper this shows again how thin it is. Do it also with 2cycle oil it absorbs into the paper very quickly showing how thin it is. Now remember when an engine heats up oil gets warm and thinner what do you think will happen when that thin 2cycle oil gets thinner it would be like living your engine with water. The fact that someone is actually saying it would be ok even with disclaimers is beyond me.... Especially on a forum dedicated to fixing the machines proper.....

This topic has gotten ridiculous... Most small push mower engines run on 30w or 10w30 don't use anything else.... And brand doesn't matter

exotion said:

And brand doesn't matter

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Oil brand does too matter. Quaker State oil isnt thick enough for small engines. It thins out when it gets hot where its too thin to keep the engine internals lubed.

reynoldston said:

Yes you can put it in your crankcase and run your engine. Am I advising it NO. Like I said for what little amount it cost why not use the right oil?? All you are asking for by running 2 cycle oil in a 4 cycle engine crankcase is a short life span. I can also remember in my younger days seeing a person that ran fuel oil in his crankcase to flush out the sludge. He just ran it a short amount of time and drained it then installed oil. Another story is a person that ran 50/50 ATF and motor oil in his crankcase. His reasoning was it ran cleaner. Most anything will lubricate the bearings. Not that I would try it but I wouldn't be surprised if you could use cooking oil.

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its funny you say that because some 2cycle oil has a vegetable base to it,and I was right it is around a 20wt,

exotion said:

Ya I've done this when I forget to fill my straight gas in the morning I've used 2 cycle before I would never...ever put it in my engine you need proof? Get some paper pour a dab of 30w on there feel how thick it is watch how fast its absorbed into the paper this shows again how thin it is. Do it also with 2cycle oil it absorbs into the paper very quickly showing how thin it is. Now remember when an engine heats up oil gets warm and thinner what do you think will happen when that thin 2cycle oil gets thinner it would be like living your engine with water. The fact that someone is actually saying it would be ok even with disclaimers is beyond me.... Especially on a forum dedicated to fixing the machines proper.....

This topic has gotten ridiculous... Most small push mower engines run on 30w or 10w30 don't use anything else.... And brand doesn't matter

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Yes thin oil ,, not water. I never said to use 2 cycle oil over 4 cycle only it can be done. Reread what I am saying. Water and oil are two different things and I will say you are ridiculous thinking they are the same. Just what do you think lubricates a 2 cycle engine, water. Is it the proper thing to do,"" NO" ONE MORE TIME. I do not want to offend you but I was thinking about it so lets keep it clean.

davbell22602 said:

Oil brand does too matter. Quaker State oil isnt thick enough for small engines. It thins out when it gets hot where its too thin to keep the engine internals lubed.

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This I didn't know... As for the water comment I wasn't calling it water I was comparing thiness and viscosity I understand the difference between the two and I agree calm is good

I knew this would get out of hand.
Omfg just go to walmart and get a jug of oil in the garden center that has the words 4 STROKE on it.

DO NOT PUT 2 STROKE OIL IN YHE CRANK CASE.

Their are to many oil scientists technicians on here.

briggs SAE 30 Tucumseh SAE 30 honda and most china engines 10w30 some of the new briggs take 10/30

Carscw said:

I knew this would get out of hand.
Omfg just go to walmart and get a jug of oil in the garden center that has the words 4 STROKE on it.

DO NOT PUT 2 STROKE OIL IN YHE CRANK CASE.

Their are to many oil scientists technicians on here.

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<3 favorite post of the day

briggs said:

briggs SAE 30 Tucumseh SAE 30 honda and most china engines 10w30 some of the new briggs take 10/30

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I havent came across Briggs engine yet where the recommended oil 10w-30 over the SAE 30. Do you know which ones they are?

The oil debate. I think you should put last nights recycled beer in it. :smile: No one agrees on oil.

davbell22602 said:

I havent came across Briggs engine yet where the recommended oil 10w-30 over the SAE 30. Do you know which ones they are?

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Actually engine oil recommendations are basically an API service classification of SJ or higher for most mowers. You can use any viscosity you want it's up to you the operator. Most will give you a chart in the manual to use with oils ranging from SAE 5w-20 to an SAE 40 depending on temperature. If you use a multi-viscosity like 10w-30 you need to check the oil more frequently because they can in some circumstances tend use oil more so the a 30 weight. I personally use a 10w30 in all my mowers and have never had an issue with a Kawasaki, Kohler, Honda Or Briggs.

Ric said:

Actually engine oil recommendations are basically an API service classification of SJ or higher for most mowers. You can use any viscosity you want it's up to you the operator. Most will give you a chart in the manual to use with oils ranging from SAE 5w-20 to an SAE 40 depending on temperature. If you use a multi-viscosity like 10w-30 you need to check the oil more frequently because they can in some circumstances tend use oil more so the a 30 weight. I personally use a 10w30 in all my mowers and have never had an issue with a Kawasaki, Kohler, Honda Or Briggs.

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Well Kawasaki engine thats on my parents Lowes cub cadet been showing signs of using and dad always put 10w-30 in it. So last season I used SAE30 when I changed it.

davbell22602 said:

Well Kawasaki engine thats on my parents Lowes cub cadet been showing signs of using and dad always put 10w-30 in it. So last season I used SAE30 when I changed it.

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Like I said I've always used the 10w30 and never had a problem with using oil but I always change the oil and filter ever 50 hrs. There's a wide range of oil viscosity's you can use, it's what ever your comfortable using.

I use a 10w40. Does that mean I am going to go to hell???

pugaltitude said:

I use a 10w40. Does that mean I am going to go to hell???

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The devil has you for sure :thumbdown:

This might have been already added, but did want to voice additional assistance; if your lawn mower is a two-stroke engine, make sure to use two-stroke oil in combination with the gasoline as recommended by the manufacturer. Do not use regular lawn mower oil in two-stroke engines, or the other way around. Do not use automotive oil in your lawn mower or in a two-stroke engine - the additives and detergents in the automotive oil are not healthy for your lawn mower. Look for oils labelled as acceptable for service SF, SG, SH, or SJ. Oil additives are also important and there are plenty of bottles of oil additives on the shelves of big box stores and automotive warehouse, but don't be tempted to add them to your lawn mower. These additives are only helpful in large engines, they will only harm small lawn mower engines. Hope this helps!

LawnEq said:

This might have been already added, but did want to voice additional assistance; if your lawn mower is a two-stroke engine, make sure to use two-stroke oil in combination with the gasoline as recommended by the manufacturer. Do not use regular lawn mower oil in two-stroke engines, or the other way around. Do not use automotive oil in your lawn mower or in a two-stroke engine - the additives and detergents in the automotive oil are not healthy for your lawn mower. Look for oils labelled as acceptable for service SF, SG, SH, or SJ. Oil additives are also important and there are plenty of bottles of oil additives on the shelves of big box stores and automotive warehouse, but don't be tempted to add them to your lawn mower. These additives are only helpful in large engines, they will only harm small lawn mower engines. Hope this helps!

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I havent had any problems yet using automotive 10w-30/SAE30 in a 4 stroke mower. So I'll disagree with last few sentences that you posted.

LOL! Carscw, how much hair have you pulled out,over this thread !??
Sometimes the simplest question can drive you nuts.
Like in the movie"City Slickers" where they're talking about programming a VCR !
NOT making fun of you Carscw,but I liked your comment !

I to also use auto oil and have for as log as I've worked with small engines. Never seen any damage done by using automotive oils I've seen damage from using to thick and to thin of oil

I put the same oil in everything.
My car my truck my go cart my mowers my 4stroke trimmers.
Everything thing gets the same. It's flipping oil. One thing I will say is never NEVER use a fram filter on anything you want to keep.

Carscw said:

I put the same oil in everything.
My car my truck my go cart my mowers my 4stroke trimmers.
Everything thing gets the same. It's flipping oil. One thing I will say is never NEVER use a fram filter on anything you want to keep.

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I've heard and read stories about fram oil filters... Scary stuff. I do use the fram paper air filters in both my cars I can't justify spending more money on a different brand for the same product

use a sae 30 equivalent SJ, SL, SM, SN/CF
Heavy duty diesel or gasoline. using a multi weight the engine might consume some oil.

exotion said:

Don't use 2stroke oil in a 4 stroke engine... Use the oil that your manual recommends.. brand usually doesn't matter. Don't have a manual use 10w30 .... Again any brand change it regularly

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^^^ This. ^^^^

Also, don't be fooled into thinking a synthetic oil can be changed less frequently, either. Since you are going to change it per the maintenance schedule (usually every 25-50 hours, depending on the mower) why bother with higher cost synthetic? Just use regular automotive 4-stroke oil, usually SAE 10W-30 for most OHV 4-stroke mower engines.

robert@honda said:

^^^ This. ^^^^

Also, don't be fooled into thinking a synthetic oil can be changed less frequently, either. Since you are going to change it per the maintenance schedule (usually every 25-50 hours, depending on the mower) why bother with higher cost synthetic? Just use regular automotive 4-stroke oil, usually SAE 10W-30 for most OHV 4-stroke mower engines.

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I run Amsoil synthetic oil in my personal use riding mowers. Still using conventional oil in the pushmowers, tillers, snowblowers, etc. Most Briggs and Tecumseh manual says to use SAE30 unless its used in the winter months then use 10w-30. The Honda's have a sticker on the side of engine saying "Use 10w-30 oil". I saw one sticker on Honda engine saying to use 10w-30 synthetic oil.

robert@honda said:

^^^ This. ^^^^

Also, don't be fooled into thinking a synthetic oil can be changed less frequently, either. Since you are going to change it per the maintenance schedule (usually every 25-50 hours, depending on the mower) why bother with higher cost synthetic? Just use regular automotive 4-stroke oil, usually SAE 10W-30 for most OHV 4-stroke mower engines.

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Like I said before no one agrees on oil. I completely disagree on what you are saying here. You can get much longer running time out of synthetic oil. Your money and equipment so we don't have to agree. That is the very reason I use synthetic in everything.

reynoldston said:

You can get much longer running time out of synthetic oil.

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I agree. Thinking on making the switch where my walk behind equipment uses synthetic also. I was on the phone with Amsoil tech dept couple weeks ago. He said there 4 stroke oil was only tested for SAE30. He also said I shouldnt have any problems using the OEM or XL 10w-30 or 5w-30 in lawn equipment and engine would last longer too.

davbell22602 said:

I havent had any problems yet using automotive 10w-30/SAE30 in a 4 stroke mower. So I'll disagree with last few sentences that you posted.

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I would agree that some additives will not harm the small engine, but they don't have any significant benefit.

reynoldston said:

Like I said before no one agrees on oil. I completely disagree on what you are saying here. You can get much longer running time out of synthetic oil. Your money and equipment so we don't have to agree. That is the very reason I use synthetic in everything.

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If the regular 10w30 or SAE30 is dirty and needs to be changed at 50 or 25 in extreme conditions so is synthetic. There's no such thing as longer run time with synthetic your just fooling yourself, spending money you don't need to spend and hurting the engine.

Ric said:

If the regular 10w30 or SAE30 is dirty and needs to be changed at 50 or 25 in extreme conditions so is synthetic. There's no such thing as longer run time with synthetic your just fooling yourself, spending money you don't need to spend and hurting the engine.

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Ya. The same amount of dirt gets in there with either oil synthetic doesn't stop the grime

We completely disagree on oil. Nothing new is being said here that hasn't been said in other threads. If I was having a lubrication problem which I am not, I could agree. Change your oil all you want you are a very good boy and I am bad.:thumbsup:

davbell22602 said:

I run Amsoil synthetic oil in my personal use riding mowers. Still using conventional oil in the pushmowers, tillers, snowblowers, etc. Most Briggs and Tecumseh manual says to use SAE30 unless its used in the winter months then use 10w-30. The Honda's have a sticker on the side of engine saying "Use 10w-30 oil". I saw one sticker on Honda engine saying to use 10w-30 synthetic oil.

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You're running Amsoil synthetic oil in my personal use riding mowers but the regular stuff in the push mowers, Why? If your that big a believer in synthetic why not use it in everything. You talk about what the briggs manual states well every manual that I've ever seen says the same thing, they tell you what type of oil to use a detergent oil (API service SF,SG,SH,SJ Or SL) but none ever say that synthetic is recommended. They even give you chart so you can tell what viscosity to use.

exotion said:

Ya. The same amount of dirt gets in there with either oil synthetic doesn't stop the grime

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That's my point just because it's synthetic doesn't mean it doesn't get dirty, DUH. The thing I never understood is every manual tells you to use regular oil for the first 50 hrs for break in purpose. Now if this synthetic crap is so fantastic how come it's not good enough to break an engine in?If it's not good enough to break an engine, why then would you want to run the crap for extended periods of time, it doesn't make sense.:confused2:

Ric said:

You're running Amsoil synthetic oil in my personal use riding mowers but the regular stuff in the push mowers, Why? View attachment 19661 If your that big a believer in synthetic why not use it in everything. You talk about what the briggs manual states well every manual that I've ever seen says the same thing, they tell you what type of oil to use a detergent oil (API service SF,SG,SH,SJ Or SL) but none ever say that synthetic is recommended. They even give you chart so you can tell what viscosity to use.

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The cost to replace a push mower engine is cheaper than riding mower engine. Plus the cost of it also. Cant justify using it in pushmowers like I do in riding mowers cause of the cost.

davbell22602 said:

The cost to replace a push mower engine is cheaper than riding mower engine. Plus the cost of it also. Cant justify using it in pushmowers like I do in riding mowers cause of the cost.

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You can't justify using it in push-mowers like you do in riding mowers cause of the cost. Let me ask have you ever replaced your push-mower engine to its cost of replacement??

Ric said:

You can't justify using it in push-mowers like you do in riding mowers cause of the cost. Let me ask have you ever replaced your push-mower engine to its cost of replacement??

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No, I change my in pushmower in being of the season every year. Pushmowers are dime a dozen broken so if i need pushmower I dont have to very hard to find one that I can fix up. But I could use Synthetic oil if I want to but havent chose to do so yet.

The reason synthetic isn't used for break in oil is that it lubricates so good that the engine doesn't get any wear to break in proper. Ring and bearing need a wear pattern for break in. Now once you have this pattern you don't want more wear so that is where the synthetic comes into play. Also the oil filter should be changed haft way through the service time for the dirt you keep talking about. If you need more information on this Ams oil is very good at getting back to you so just write to them. I am sure they are much better explaining this to you then I am.

davbell22602 said:

No, I change my in push-mower in being of the season every year. Push-mowers are dime a dozen broken so if i need push-mower I don't have to very hard to find one that I can fix up. But I could use Synthetic oil if I want to but haven't chose to do so yet.

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So you have never replaced the engine on the push mower and you've never run anything but regular oil. I think the question here is not that you can't justify using the synthetic oil in the push-mower but how do you justify using the synthetic in the rider when the regular oil has never hurt the small engine. They both run the same, there both basically the same thing a four stroke engine.:confused3: What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

O M F G Just use what ever oil you want and keep it to your self

reynoldston said:

The reason synthetic isn't used for break in oil is that it lubricates so good that the engine doesn't get any wear to break in proper. Ring and bearing need a wear pattern for break in. Now once you have this pattern you don't want more wear so that is where the synthetic comes into play. Also the oil filter should be changed haft way through the service time for the dirt you keep talking about. If you need more information on this Ams oil is very good at getting back to you so just write to them. I am sure they are much better explaining this to you then I am.

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Your going to tell me it works so good it wont break an engine in properly so you have to use regular oil but yet ever car manufacturer will uses synthetic from the start in there vehicles and don't use any break in oil. Yet there's not a mower manufacturer that recommends the synthetic for there mower engines. Ya know synthetic oil is good stuff and I'm not saying it isn't if used in the proper application and that's in a car or truck not in the lawn mower engine where it's not needed if you change the oil and filter the way you should.

Carscw said:

O M F G Just use what ever oil you want and keep it to your self

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I agree. For all I care you can use last nights recycled beer for oil. If you want a thread to go for over 53 post just say the word(( OIL)).

reynoldston said:

I agree. For all I care you can use last nights recycled beer for oil. If you want a thread to go for over 53 post just say the word(( OIL)).

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I thought about trying vegetable oil in a mower.

davbell22602 said:

I thought about trying vegetable oil in a mower.

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Now we wouldn't be getting an attitude would we??:laughing:

Carscw said:

O M F G Just use what ever oil you want and keep it to your self

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Carscw you always have to spoil all my fun, you have too admit thjough we haven't had this much controversy since JD left :smile:

davbell22602 said:

I thought about trying vegetable oil in a mower.

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Ha ha years ago I had a dodge dart with a slow brake line leak I put vegetable oil in it to make it home. It worked good.

Ric said:

Carscw you always have to spoil all my fun, you have too admit thjough we haven't had this much controversy since JD left :smile:

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Funny you bring him up.
Last night I read all the comments from 2011 when I called him Bobby sue.

I sent my wife for oil once she came back with some $2.50 dollar store oil.

She said it's just oil why spend $6 a jug on it.

I use it in my 4 stroke trimmers.

Carscw said:

I sent my wife for oil once she came back with some $2.50 dollar store oil.

She said it's just oil why spend $6 a jug on it.

I use it in my 4 stroke trimmers.

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For the amount we are supposed to change oil (pros nearly weekly, homeowners 1-2) times a year buying anything expensive would be a waste

Can we argue about that Quaker State oil being to thin for small gas engines and those no good Fram oil filters comments?

possum said:

Can we argue about that Quaker State oil being to thin for small gas engines and those no good Fram oil filters comments?

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Can you send a link to an article or study providing that info about Quaker state. As for fram I agree completely

possum said:

Can we argue about that Quaker State oil being to thin for small gas engines and those no good Fram oil filters comments?

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Sure you can keep the Quaker crap and as long as you use the Fram oil filters on cars where there supposed to be used there fine.

possum said:

Can we argue about that Quaker State oil being to thin for small gas engines and those no good Fram oil filters comments?

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We can argue about anything you want.

I don't use Quaker state because someone I don't like uses it.

Fram oil filters are fine for a car engine that is stock.
For a small engine or a modified performance engine the fram filter restricts the oil to much.

When it comes to oil filters I only use napa gold or wix

Pennzoil and Rotella is all i run in my truck and equipment and when it comes to oil filters all i run are Wix,Hastings,Baldwin
Frankly i don't care what you run because it not my equipment.

oil in my mowers is changed every 100 hrs and comes out clean and the oil in my truck every 7500 and it comes out clean yes it darkens some but i have had my trucks valve cover off and the valve cover on my mowers and you can eat off the engines but my mowers get 5W40 full synthetic rotella T6 and the truck gets full synthetic pennzoil 5W30.

Carscw said:

We can argue about anything you want.

I don't use Quaker state because someone I don't like uses it.

Fram oil filters are fine for a car engine that is stock.
For a small engine or a modified performance engine the fram filter restricts the oil to much.

When it comes to oil filters I only use napa gold or wix

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I never understood why anyone would run a car oil filter on a lawn mower, it doesn't make good sense. You run out and buy the most expensive oil in the world, your synthetic crap and then you use an oil filter designed for an automobile because there the cheapest thing to get instead of an OEM designed for the mower.

I use Baldwin filters. I am not a filter expert. But as I under stand different filter model numbers will fit the same engine but the interior of the filter is different. Some of them have a one way valve in them that release as different oil pressures and the filter is different. As for Baldwin filters they have a cross referents as to use what filter on what engine. I don't understand what you are talking about car filter or mower filter? They don't sell filters that way but by engine design. Not that many company's make filters but will just paint them a different color and put a company name on them and that is what is sold at the dealers. Yes some filters are made cheaper then others. You get what you pay for.

Carscw said:

Fram oil filters are fine for a car engine that is stock.

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The plain jane orange fram oil filters are known to ruin car/truck engines regardless if its stock engine or custom built engine. The the other Fram series oil filter are porbably ok to use.

exotion said:

Can you send a link to an article or study providing that info about Quaker state. As for fram I agree completely

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Here's link to proof of oil filters not to use.

Oil Filter Comparison Study - GM Truck Central

Oil Filter Comparison Study Discussion

davbell22602 said:

Here's link to proof of oil filters not to use.

Oil Filter Comparison Study - GM Truck Central

Oil Filter Comparison Study Discussion

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Your study is great if your buying a filter for a vehicle engine, problem is that's not a lawn mower engine.

Ric said:

Your study is great if your buying a filter for a vehicle engine, problem is that's not a lawn mower engine.

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Just one more time. Oil filters are sold my engine not size. I don't care where you buy your oil filter the fist question is what engine does it fit. Then they will go to a chart of lawn mower engines and sell you a filter off of that chart. No such thing as a universal fit all oil filter. I really can't even see what in the world you are arguing about here. Yes there are filters that will interchange by size but that isn't the way they are sold. Oil Filters are designed by engine not by size (one more time)

reynoldston said:

Just one more time. Oil filters are sold my engine not size. I don't care where you buy your oil filter the fist question is what engine does it fit. Then they will go to a chart of lawn mower engines and sell you a filter off of that chart. No such thing as a universal fit all oil filter. I really can't even see what in the world you are arguing about here. Yes there are filters that will interchange by size but that isn't the way they are sold. Oil Filters are designed by engine not by size (one more time)

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Ya know I really don't give a hoot less about car or truck filters. I don't change my oil in the truck or car or the oil filters. The question I asked is why would someone want to run an automotive oil filter on a lawn mower instead of the OEM filter there supposed to run. Like a Kawasaki filter or Kohler filter because I really can't see where a Car or Truck filter can be compatible with a lawn mower engine.

Ric said:

Ya know I really don't give a hoot less about car or truck filters. I don't change my oil in the truck or car or the oil filters. The question I asked is why would someone want to run an automotive oil filter on a lawn mower instead of the OEM filter there supposed to run. Like a Kawasaki filter or Kohler filter because I really can't see where a Car or Truck filter can be compatible with a lawn mower engine.

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I just don't understand what you are saying here. How can you get the two mixed up? Kawasaki and Kohler doesn't make oil filters. They buy them painted with there name on them from a filter company.. The filters are designed to their engine with a release valve made inside the filter, to the engine manufacture specs as all brand filters made. No such thing as a universal car/mower filter.

reynoldston said:

I just don't understand what you are saying here. How can you get the two mixed up? Kawasaki and Kohler doesn't make oil filters. They buy them painted with there name on them from a filter company.. The filters are designed to their engine with a release valve made inside the filter, to the engine manufacture specs as all brand filters made. No such thing as a universal car/mower filter.

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Look I know this may be going right over your head but when I buy an oil filter for my Kawasaki or Kohler engines it's the OEM filter designed for my engine, ( a lawn mower engine ) not a car, and nobody said anything about a universal car or mower filter where did that come from.

Napa sells the filters as lawn mower filters not automotive... Just because they are napa brand doesn't meen they aren't made for lawnmowers

Ric said:

Look I know this may be going right over your head but when I buy an oil filter for my Kawasaki or Kohler engines it's the OEM filter designed for my engine, ( a lawn mower engine ) not a car, and nobody said anything about a universal car or mower filter where did that come from.

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I think what he is saying is when you go to napa to get a oil filter for a briggs 22 hp twin. They give you a filter made and designed for that engine.
The napa gold or wix filter you get at napa is designed to be a OEM replacement.
And the fact is when you buy a wix filter your getting a better filter for about the same price.

Just about any filter brand you can think or makes a filter for small engines.
Just because I filter says Kawasaki on it does not make it a better filter.
That's like saying you will only use a toro battery because it's made for a toro.

What I see Ric saying is if he has a kawasaki engine then he buys a kawasaki oil filter.
If he has a kohler engine then he buys a kohler filter.
If he has a honda engine he buys a honda filter.
I wont say Briggs :laughing:
It will be all genuine and not another name.
I would do it that way aswell.

Iv never understood going spurious spares when genuine is just as cheap to buy.

exotion said:

Napa sells the filters as lawn mower filters not automotive... Just because they are napa brand doesn't meen they aren't made for lawnmowers

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Nobody said Napa didn't sell filters for a lawn mower and if you want to buy a filter from a place like that be my guest but not me, it's OEM and the part number from the manual just like the oil, by the manual. With a 5 year warranty it's nothing else especially when I can buy the OEM cheaper.

pugaltitude said:

What I see Ric saying is if he has a kawasaki engine then he buys a kawasaki oil filter.
If he has a kohler engine then he buys a kohler filter.
If he has a honda engine he buys a honda filter.
I wont say Briggs :laughing:
It will be all genuine and not another name.
I would do it that way aswell.

Iv never understood going spurious spares when genuine is just as cheap to buy.

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Kawasaki, Kohler, Honda, NAPA do not make, oil, oil filters, bearings, seals, battery's. They buy these items from a out side company. OK one more time for the ? times. A outside company makes a oil filter for ( Kawasaki, Kohler, Briggs, Honda, NAPA) then they make, paint, and print it to their specs. Believe what you want because I give up. If it makes you warm and fussy buy your filter from the dealer.

What I hate is the $25 air filters every month.

reynoldston said:

Kawasaki, Kohler, Honda, NAPA do not make, oil, oil filters, bearings, seals, battery's. They buy these items from a out side company. OK one more time for the ? times. A outside company makes a oil filter for ( Kawasaki, Kohler, Briggs, Honda, NAPA) then they make, paint, and print it to their specs. Believe what you want because I give up. If it makes you warm and fussy buy your filter from the dealer.

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WE KNOW THEY DO NOT MAKE OIL FILTERS , OIL ETC BUT ITS EASIER AND YOU KNOW YOU ARE GETTING THE RIGHT PART FOR THE ENGINE INSTEAD OF CROSS REFERENCE THE FILTER TO SOME OTHER NUMBER.

Now come back down from the rafters

Carscw said:

What I hate is the $25 air filters every month.

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You switch air filters once a month? Dam I just blow them out twice a week and replace them at the end of the season unless they get really bad, warped, or oil saturated or wet...

pugaltitude said:

WE KNOW THEY DO NOT MAKE OIL FILTERS , OIL ETC BUT ITS EASIER AND YOU KNOW YOU ARE GETTING THE RIGHT PART FOR THE ENGINE INSTEAD OF CROSS REFERENCE THE FILTER TO SOME OTHER NUMBER. Now come back down from the rafters

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I think it's easier just to stop at the parts store buy case of oil and filters get my 10% discount.
I can't not stand going to a dealer paying twice the price and most don't carry 10-30


Now the brand oil you use does make a difference in how the engine performs there have been many test done.
One test one done on a dyno they ran the test 6 times and only thing they did was Change the oil. Each run showed differences in hp and acceleration.
Would you not want to use the oil that put out the most hp and best acceleration?
As it lubricated everything better to make it move more freely.

Carscw said:

I think it's easier just to stop at the parts store buy case of oil and filters get my 10% discount.
I can't not stand going to a dealer paying twice the price and most don't carry 10-30


Now the brand oil you use does make a difference in how the engine performs there have been many test done.
One test one done on a dyno they ran the test 6 times and only thing they did was Change the oil. Each run showed differences in hp and acceleration.
Would you not want to use the oil that put out the most hp and best acceleration?
As it lubricated everything better to make it move more freely.

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I dont see the difference in price overhere between spurious and genuine "branded" parts.

A kohler small filter is the same as a briggs small and the kawas are the same as the hondas.

But when we go into our autoparts stores then they cant cross reference a genuine brand filter and so say go to a lawnmower dealer.
Also cars have gone to a paper element style oil filter instead of a metal screw on.

exotion said:

You switch air filters once a month? Dam I just blow them out twice a week and replace them at the end of the season unless they get really bad, warped, or oil saturated or wet...

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I may change air filters a couple of times a season but for the most part I'm like you I just use the air hose on the filter and hot water and dawn dish soap and clean the element let it dry and your good to go. I do buy oil filters and edger blades bulk, save me a lot of money.

pugaltitude said:

WE KNOW THEY DO NOT MAKE OIL FILTERS , OIL ETC BUT ITS EASIER AND YOU KNOW YOU ARE GETTING THE RIGHT PART FOR THE ENGINE INSTEAD OF CROSS REFERENCE THE FILTER TO SOME OTHER NUMBER.

Now come back down from the rafters

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I know what you mean. It is such a large job to cross reference a oil filter number. Should make it a crime to make a parts person work SO hard. I also bet they stock all lawn mower filters in the rafters. We just swing all through the parts stores from the rafters like a bunch of monkeys with a six shooter strapped to our side in USA, didn't you know that, that's after we eat a pound of bacon for breakfast. Try it once its fun. :thumbsup:

reynoldston said:

I know what you mean. It is such a large job to cross reference a oil filter number. Should make it a crime to make a parts person work SO hard. I also bet they stock all lawn mower filters in the rafters. We just swing all through the parts stores from the rafters like a bunch of monkeys with a six shooter strapped to our side in USA, didn't you know that, that's after we eat a pound of bacon for breakfast. Try it once its fun. :thumbsup:

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Bacon and eggs bro... No really we eat like pure sugar for breakfast its bad. My family eats a little better oatmeal and toast

exotion said:

Bacon and eggs bro... No really we eat like pure sugar for breakfast its bad. My family eats a little better oatmeal and toast

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Now a true American breakfast at the local grease spoon. two eggs, double order of bacon, home fry's, two slices of well buttered toast, black coffee, a 9mm Glock next to you plate, and add a bowl of grits for the southern states. oatmeal and toast isn't going to give you a heart attack way too healthy. A UK breakfast muffins and tea.

pugaltitude said:

I dont see the difference in price overhere between spurious and genuine "branded" parts. A kohler small filter is the same as a briggs small and the kawas are the same as the hondas. But when we go into our autoparts stores then they cant cross reference a genuine brand filter and so say go to a lawnmower dealer. Also cars have gone to a paper element style oil filter instead of a metal screw on.

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Auto parts stores also carry kohler, briggs and Kawasaki filters as does walmart, Kmart ,

Ric said:

I may change air filters a couple of times a season but for the most part I'm like you I just use the air hose on the filter and hot water and dawn dish soap and clean the element let it dry and your good to go. I do buy oil filters and edger blades bulk, save me a lot of money.

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Ran out of edger blades once and put one of these on. Works good for drives that are over grown from not being edged in a year.

Thought about grabbing one of those. That's the only time my 225 is under powered is when your cutting what is basically sod off of.sidewalks and driveway

Carscw said:

Auto parts stores also carry kohler, briggs and Kawasaki filters as does walmart, Kmart ,

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They carry the replacement filters at twice the price of the OEM. they have Kand N or Sten and who knows what else. I buy Genuine Kawasaki oil Filters made in America at the shop for like $6.00

Ric said:

They carry the replacement filters at twice the price of the OEM. they have Kand N or Sten and who knows what else. I buy Genuine Kawasaki oil Filters made in America at the shop for like $6.00

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I like the design of the K&N because you can use a socket to take it off but from what I have read they are not good filters.

STEN just makes everything cheap.

I run K&N air filters on my trucks and cars but have not heard good things about their small engine filters.

exotion said:

Thought about grabbing one of those. That's the only time my 225 is under powered is when your cutting what is basically sod off of.sidewalks and driveway

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Wow, I never thought I here you talking about Echo like that. That Stihl Blower you purchased must have opened your eyes a little bit. You may want think about the FC 90 or 110 when you get ready to replace that 225.:smile:

Ric said:

Wow, I never thought I here you talking about Echo like that. That Stihl Blower you purchased must have opened your eyes a little bit. You may want think about the FC 90 or 110 when you get ready to replace that 225.:smile:

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I love my FS KM90! It is very strong!

Ric said:

Wow, I never thought I here you talking about Echo like that. That Stihl Blower you purchased must have opened your eyes a little bit. You may want think about the FC 90 or 110 when you get ready to replace that 225.:smile:

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I don't think these kind of edgers are really even made for that kind of work I'm general. Even the other echo top of the line edger would struggle cutting the first edge. When your cutting through 3" deep and 6" of sod off of sidewalks I think any hand held edger is going to struggle. I had a 3hp walk behind edger would slice through it like butter. The briggs engine did not last long considering I bought it used.

Yes I love my sh86 its bloody incredible I moved an inch of snow with it my first time out. I used it the other day to move all my wet leaves I ignored in the fall it didn't care how heavy they were. I haven't used the vacumn yet but its a great tool

reynoldston said:

I know what you mean. It is such a large job to cross reference a oil filter number. Should make it a crime to make a parts person work SO hard. I also bet they stock all lawn mower filters in the rafters. We just swing all through the parts stores from the rafters like a bunch of monkeys with a six shooter strapped to our side in USA, didn't you know that, that's after we eat a pound of bacon for breakfast. Try it once its fun. :thumbsup:

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:laughing::laughing: I like your comeback!!! :thumbsup:

exotion said:

I don't think these kind of edgers are really even made for that kind of work I'm general. Even the other echo top of the line edger would struggle cutting the first edge. When your cutting through 3" deep and 6" of sod off of sidewalks I think any hand held edger is going to struggle. I had a 3hp walk behind edger would slice through it like butter. The Briggs engine did not last long considering I bought it used.

Yes I love my sh86 its bloody incredible I moved an inch of snow with it my first time out. I used it the other day to move all my wet leaves I ignored in the fall it didn't care how heavy they were. I haven't used the vacuum yet but its a great tool

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I think what you need to look at is your working with a 21.2cc engine in the Echo compared to a 28.2cc in the FC90 and a 31.4 in the FC110 and there both 4 mix engines, it can make a big difference. The thing is you went from your Echo PB2100 which was a 21.2cc to the Stihl SH 86 which is a 27.2 cc and look at what your saying. Just think what the difference would be with there Edgers and Trimmers.

I picked up a cub cadet 4 stroke brush cutter. Cost was 30 mins of my time.
It has good power for cutting brush and works good with the edger attachment.
But the dang thing is heavy.

Didn't I tell you that magic word is OIL. Now we are on something completely different with a 100 post. From what oil to put in his push mower and no one agrees so the post just take off all over the place. So here it go's we are getting over 16 ins. of snow tomorrow.

reynoldston said:

Didn't I tell you that magic word is OIL. Now we are on something completely different with a 100 post. From what oil to put in his push mower and no one agrees so the post just take off all over the place. So here it go's we are getting over 16 ins. of snow tomorrow.

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Well the original posters question has been answered... Use the manual.

No snow but I did my first spring job roof cleaning, gutter cleaning, prune, clean up, power rake, fertilized. $800

exotion said:

Well the original posters question has been answered... Use the manual.

No snow but I did my first spring job roof cleaning, gutter cleaning, prune, clean up, power rake, fertilized. $800

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I just watched the weather report it went from 16in. of snow now to 20in. I got the snow blower and fire wood ready. I got a feeling with that much snow the roads will be plugged anyways. That is northern NY weather.

reynoldston said:

I just watched the weather report it went from 16in. of snow now to 20in. I got the snow blower and fire wood ready. I got a feeling with that much snow the roads will be plugged anyways. That is northern NY weather.

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Ha time to move to Washington

reynoldston said:

I just watched the weather report it went from 16in. of snow now to 20in. I got the snow blower and fire wood ready. I got a feeling with that much snow the roads will be plugged anyways. That is northern NY weather.

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With all the use your snow blower will get I hope your using a good brand OIL.

What brand do you use in your snow blower? Do you use the dame brand in your mowers?

Carscw said:

With all the use your snow blower will get I hope your using a good brand OIL.

What brand do you use in your snow blower? Do you use the dame brand in your mowers?

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15W/40 diesel Ams oil. The best Oh no here we go again That magic word OIL.

reynoldston said:

15W/40 diesel Ams oil. The best Oh no here we go again That magic word OIL.

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It's funny with all the people on here no two use the same oil. But everyone's engine runs just fine with what they use.

Carscw said:

It's funny with all the people on here no two use the same oil. But everyone's engine runs just fine with what they use.

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Well I think that statement kinda proves the point that all this fancy oil every body says is so fantastic isn't any better than the cheap stuff.

Ric said:

Well I think that statement kinda proves the point that all this fancy oil every body says is so fantastic isn't any better than the cheap stuff.

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This my be a big surprise to you but there are people out there that never check the oil much less change it. Their mower will run longer with Ams oil in it then cheap oil. But also this is just words so it doesn't prove anything just like your statement. So let the debate start over? OIL no one agrees.

reynoldston said:

This my be a big surprise to you but there are people out there that never check the oil much less change it. Their mower will run longer with Ams oil in it then cheap oil. But also this is just words so it doesn't prove anything just like your statement. So let the debate start over? OIL no one agrees.

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If there are people out there that never check or change their oil then there stupid and your statement about a mower running longer on Ams oil is completely bogus because it's not oil that will make a mower run longer it's proper maintenance and doing and running what the manufacturer say to do and run and not think you know more than they do, or like some people to think.

Amsoil will make a engine longer cause the engine runs cooler on synthetic oil. Plus it keeps the engine clean internally also.

davbell22602 said:

Amsoil will make a engine longer cause the engine runs cooler on synthetic oil. Plus it keeps the engine clean internally also.

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I seriously doubt that. If you change oil at 50 hrs synthetic will be just as dirty as the regular oil. The Thing people need to remember is this is not a car engine were talking about nor a high performance engine, It's an engine that gets run on lawns, dusty dry lawns that needs to be clean daily along with the air filters cleaned daily because the system accumulates dust and dirt and oil needs to be changed at 50hrs and at 25hrs in extreme conditions and you want to extend your hrs with chemicals, artificial crap instead of the real stuff, BS.

Ric said:

If there are people out there that never check or change their oil then there stupid and your statement about a mower running longer on Ams oil is completely bogus because it's not oil that will make a mower run longer it's proper maintenance and doing and running what the manufacturer say to do and run and not think you know more than they do, or like some people to think.

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Her we go, we don't agree so you can start telling me what a dumb *** I am. OK I am dumber then a post. YOU WIN seeing you are much better with words then I am. As far as I am concerned who ever can fill there mower with what ever. Yes if a mower is well maintained cheap oil is fine I can't argue with that. That isn't the type of person that brings a mower to me for repairs with the rod hanging out the bottom of the engine. I go back a good many years and in the 50's it was one oil for everything. The gas station sold oil in glass bottles that he filled. We would change our oil every 1000 miles in a car. I lived on a farm at the time and my father took care of the equipment so I really don't remember what he did other then he would pour the oil in the drive way to keep the dust down. With the newer oils of today I change my car oil 20,000 miles. Through the years anything I have owned engines I have only once had a engine blow up on me That was my 442 which I ran it with too many RPM's which type of oil had nothing to do with. Are you going to change my thinking on this NO.

reynoldston said:

Her we go, we don't agree so you can start telling me what a dumb *** I am. OK I am dumber then a post. YOU WIN seeing you are much better with words then I am. As far as I am concerned who ever can fill there mower with what ever. Yes if a mower is well maintained cheap oil is fine I can't argue with that. That isn't the type of person that brings a mower to me for repairs with the rod hanging out the bottom of the engine. I go back a good many years and in the 50's it was one oil for everything. The gas station sold oil in glass bottles that he filled. We would change our oil every 1000 miles in a car. I lived on a farm at the time and my father took care of the equipment so I really don't remember what he did other then he would pour the oil in the drive way to keep the dust down. With the newer oils of today I change my car oil 20,000 miles. Through the years anything I have owned engines I have only once had a engine blow up on me That was my 442 which I ran it with too many RPM's which type of oil had nothing to do with. Are you going to change my thinking on this NO.

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I don't particularly care what they did or how things were 50 yrs ago, I'm not living in the past, my Alzheimer's hasn't kicked in yet. I just know I've been using the petroleum base oil for the last 40+ yrs and the only time I ever had a problem was when I switched to a synthetic after the 50 hr break-in in my 20hp single cylinder Kohler, it leaked oil from every where, it smoked say nothing about the power loss. As soon as I got the Mobil one out and went back to the 5000 10w30 it was fine and when I sold it it had just over 400hrs, so with that experience I said never again.

I find it a little funny though that when you talk about synthetic oil it seems it's always in reference to a Car oil change like you say today I change my car oil 20,000 miles and that's fantastic as that's what the synthetic was made for but as I said before this is not a car engine were talking about nor a high performance engine that you drive down the highway and never sees or rarely see the dust and dirt of a lawn mower engine that needs frequent oil changes. BTW nobody said you were a dumb*** and just because you say I'm better with words if I am, well all that means is I liked English class when I was in school.

Ric said:

I seriously doubt that. If you change oil at 50 hrs synthetic will be just as dirty as the regular oil. The Thing people need to remember is this is not a car engine were talking about nor a high performance engine, It's an engine that gets run on lawns, dusty dry lawns that needs to be clean daily along with the air filters cleaned daily because the system accumulates dust and dirt and oil needs to be changed at 50hrs and at 25hrs in extreme conditions and you want to extend your hrs with chemicals, artificial crap instead of the real stuff, BS.

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Regardless what type of engine your putting synthetic oil in it will keep the engine internals cooler and the engine will last longer. Conventional oil will not keep a engine clean internally. Synthetic oil has more detergent than conventional. If you dont believe this then you need to spend couple hours over at AMSOIL - Synthetic Oil, Motor and Engine Oil, Lubricants, Air Filters, Oil Filters and Greases as there the first in synthetic oils.

Ric said:

Well I think that statement kinda proves the point that all this fancy oil every body says is so fantastic isn't any better than the cheap stuff.

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I feel as long as you change your oil at 50 hours then use any oil you want.
Last year I was so busy I started changing my oil every two weeks with cheap oil I will continue to do it this year.

I used to run high dollar oil but have found there is really no need for it.
Now I know a guy runs a toro ztr went all last year never changed the oil and is mad because it does not have the power it once had. Told me he has not gone 3000 miles yet. I wanted to choke him.

Ric said:

I don't particularly care what they did or how things were 50 yrs ago, I'm not living in the past, my Alzheimer's hasn't kicked in yet. I just know I've been using the petroleum base oil for the last 40+ yrs and the only time I ever had a problem was when I switched to a synthetic after the 50 hr break-in in my 20hp single cylinder Kohler, it leaked oil from every where, it smoked say nothing about the power loss. As soon as I got the Mobil one out and went back to the 5000 10w30 it was fine and when I sold it it had just over 400hrs, so with that experience I said never again.

I find it a little funny though that when you talk about synthetic oil it seems it's always in reference to a Car oil change like you say today I change my car oil 20,000 miles and that's fantastic as that's what the synthetic was made for but as I said before this is not a car engine were talking about nor a high performance engine that you drive down the highway and never sees or rarely see the dust and dirt of a lawn mower engine that needs frequent oil changes. BTW nobody said you were a dumb*** and just because you say I'm better with words if I am, well all that means is I liked English class when I was in school.

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This is a good day for this seeing I am snowed in anyways. Now let me remember about my school days. Its been a few years back, but. Black leather jackets, engineer boots, hanging out with a cigarette hanging from my mouth in the local pool hall. My crowd was too dumb for school. That is why we people use synthetic oil in our mowers because we don't know any better and was not learning English. Now I know your problem its Mobil 1 not Ams oil. For my mowers that have hour meters get oil change every 100 hr. My push mower get a oil change every other year because they get very little running time per year. No oil leaks or burning oil. If I did get a oil leak I would fix it. The only oil leak I haven't been able to repair is on my Harley Davidson and that is because of crankcase breather design not oil type, but that also isn't a mower that runs in the dirt like your do. How about that just owning a HD shows my? Hay I am losing count on the number of post as to what oil to put in a push mower. Ams oil for sure.

Any new member that comes here to ask about what oil to use is just screwed.

Carscw said:

I feel as long as you change your oil at 50 hours then use any oil you want.
Last year I was so busy I started changing my oil every two weeks with cheap oil I will continue to do it this year.

I used to run high dollar oil but have found there is really no need for it.
Now I know a guy runs a toro ztr went all last year never changed the oil and is mad because it does not have the power it once had. Told me he has not gone 3000 miles yet. I wanted to choke him.

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That's the way I change my oil. I use the Mobil 5000 for 12.97 for five quarts and change oil and filters every 50 hrs. The other thing that people don't consider is the added expense to use the synthetic and with the number of changes I have to do how it can effect the bottom line at the end of the year. I put more hrs on a mower in a week than a homeowner does in a year.

Carscw said:

Any new member that comes here to ask about what oil to use is just screwed.

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I have to agree on that. Here we are with 118 post with no real answer. I have seen other forums with the same problem. My personal opinion on oil is if a engine is well maintained it really don't matter what oil you use. You might get some oil burning on some of the lighter weight oils but should be ok if you watch it. I live in a neighbor hood with rich buy a mower till it stops then buy another. You can get some nice deals if you don't mine replacing a engine. That also makes for some mower salvage yards around this part of the country which I find handy for used parts.

reynoldston said:

I have to agree on that. Here we are with 118 post with no real answer. I have seen other forums with the same problem. My personal opinion on oil is if a engine is well maintained it really don't matter what oil you use. You might get some oil burning on some of the lighter weight oils but should be ok if you watch it. I live in a neighbor hood with rich buy a mower till it stops then buy another. You can get some nice deals if you don't mine replacing a engine. That also makes for some mower salvage yards around this part of the country which I find handy for used parts.

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I think we have come to the best answer on oil is use what ever you like as long as you change it when it's time and use the proper weight for your conditions.

Carscw said:

I think we have come to the best answer on oil is use what ever you like as long as you change it when it's time and use the proper weight for your conditions.

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Hey your post was 121, I think this thread should be good for at least 200 and even at that nobody's gonna agree on anything.

I think we can agree that the topic of oil gives us something to argue about. We get to practice being witty and sarcastic.

Carscw said:

I think we can agree that the topic of oil gives us something to argue about. We get to practice being witty and sarcastic.

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I sure had fun with it stuck in the house all day with a snow storm with some of the roads closed down.

Lol one of those things when I talk to people I don't bring up religion....politics.....and now oil

exotion said:

Lol one of those things when I talk to people I don't bring up religion....politics.....and now oil

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Now come on because I can really crank up people on religion. one word Evolution

reynoldston said:

Now come on because I can really crank up people on religion. one word Evolution

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I just say I am catholic people down here freak out.

The thing I hate about using Amsoil in the winter months, is that the engines run so cool that ice crystals form on the exhaust manifold and valve and cause piston damage......

Fish said:

The thing I hate about using Amsoil in the winter months, is that the engines run so cool that ice crystals form on the exhaust manifold and valve and cause piston damage......

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You have completely lost me on this one??? Just touch the exhaust manifold on my tractor when its working and you will have third degree burns. And it dose have Ams oil in it.

Fish said:

The thing I hate about using Amsoil in the winter months, is that the engines run so cool that ice crystals form on the exhaust manifold and valve and cause piston damage......

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What??????

Fish said:

The thing I hate about using Amsoil in the winter months, is that the engines run so cool that ice crystals form on the exhaust manifold and valve and cause piston damage......

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I have never seen an engine damaged by ice while running...?

Fish said:

The thing I hate about using Amsoil in the winter months, is that the engines run so cool that ice crystals form on the exhaust manifold and valve and cause piston damage......

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This a new one on ice form on the exhaust. Have called the Amsoil tech support to what they say about it? If so what did they say?

davbell22602 said:

This a new one on ice form on the exhaust. Have called the Amsoil tech support to what they say about it? If so what did they say?

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That is such a BS story the Amsoil oil tech will think your not very smart for asking such a dumb question. Fish is just trying to get a funny going. If you don't know yet fire makes heat and heat melts ice.

meppwc said:

I have a Toro and a Craftsman push mower. I need to change oil using SAE 30W..............but I need to know if I should be using 2 stroke or 4 stroke type oil

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Well since I've never seen 2 stroke oil rated at 30W then my best guess would be 4 stroke oil ie: motor oil, my personal preference is Mobile 1. Never use 2 stroke oil in a 4 stroke engine, it will not lubricate the internals properly. good luck with your oil change, and I do congratulate you, most people don't realize that you can change the oil in a push mower.

i got (2) 2 stroke chainsaws from the late 50's early 60's that specify 1/2 pint of non detergent sae 30 to 1 gallon of gas but if i ever use them they will get 32:1
to much coking,carbon and ring sticking using the old oil.

What I hate worse is the Amsoil followers at the airport, with their tamborines.....

Wow, you guys scare me a bit.....

Fish said:

Wow, you guys scare me a bit.....

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Count to 10 relax drink a beer take your meds and everything will be ok.

meppwc said:

I have a Toro and a Craftsman push mower. I need to change oil using SAE 30W..............but I need to know if I should be using 2 stroke or 4 stroke type oil

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I have always been told, and believe and follow it, 2-cycle (or 2 stroke) oil is only for 2-stroke engines like chain saws and the like, where you mix it with gas since there is no oil in a crankcase, and 4-stroke oil is thicker and only used in 4-stroke engines where there is a crankcase filled with oil. I have had others tell me they used 2 cycle oil in their 4 cycle engines and they soon started using, and leaking, oil and "blew up' within a short time. I talked with a very good, and reliable, mechanic this same question. He said to me, You dont use motor oil in place of transmission fluid do you, it is not designed for that, always use the right type in the right place.
Just my thoughts, I'm not always right, but always try to do the right thing. Save yourself some possible problems or headaches, use 2 cycle in 2 cycle and 4 cycle in 4 cycle.

marvc said:

I have always been told, and believe and follow it, 2-cycle (or 2 stroke) oil is only for 2-stroke engines like chain saws and the like, where you mix it with gas since there is no oil in a crankcase, and 4-stroke oil is thicker and only used in 4-stroke engines where there is a crankcase filled with oil. I have had others tell me they used 2 cycle oil in their 4 cycle engines and they soon started using, and leaking, oil and "blew up' within a short time. I talked with a very good, and reliable, mechanic this same question. He said to me, You dont use motor oil in place of transmission fluid do you, it is not designed for that, always use the right type in the right place.
Just my thoughts, I'm not always right, but always try to do the right thing. Save yourself some possible problems or headaches, use 2 cycle in 2 cycle and 4 cycle in 4 cycle.

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YES YES I agree with you. What I said you can change the two oils around and get away with it. Is it a smart thing to do NO never did I say it was. It will shorten the life of your equipment YES. Oils have come a long ways in the last 50 or so years with big improvements. So use what oil that is recommended by the manufacture. And then we can start this all over again. Its called Ams oil. The best oil out there. With Amsoil you can extend the service time.

marvc said:

I have always been told, and believe and follow it, 2-cycle (or 2 stroke) oil is only for 2-stroke engines like chain saws and the like, where you mix it with gas since there is no oil in a crankcase, and 4-stroke oil is thicker and only used in 4-stroke engines where there is a crankcase filled with oil. I have had others tell me they used 2 cycle oil in their 4 cycle engines and they soon started using, and leaking, oil and "blew up' within a short time. I talked with a very good, and reliable, mechanic this same question. He said to me, You dont use motor oil in place of transmission fluid do you, it is not designed for that, always use the right type in the right place.
Just my thoughts, I'm not always right, but always try to do the right thing. Save yourself some possible problems or headaches, use 2 cycle in 2 cycle and 4 cycle in 4 cycle.

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What you say is very true and I agree never use two stoke oil in a four stroke engine, However there is one exception that I know of where you do and that is in the Stihl 4mix engine which is a 4 cycle that runs on 2 cycle 50 to 1 mix.

reynoldston said:

That is such a BS story the Amsoil oil tech will think your not very smart for asking such a dumb question. Fish is just trying to get a funny going. If you don't know yet fire makes heat and heat melts ice.

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Yeah, you caught me......... I remember on another chainsaw forum, I started a thread about Stihl introducing a Synthetic bar oil
the day before April 1st, I called the techs at bryan equipment in Ohio, they said they had several calls about it.

now a bar oil argument, they can get real fun!!!!!!!

Fish said:

Yeah, you caught me......... I remember on another chainsaw forum, I started a thread about Stihl introducing a Synthetic bar oil
the day before April 1st, I called the techs at bryan equipment in Ohio, they said they had several calls about it.

now a bar oil argument, they can get real fun!!!!!!!

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Everybody knows its chipshop vegetable oil is the best to use.
Biodegradable and works at warm temps.
Just syphon all the potato and fish out.

Just use whatever 4 cycle oil you wanna use thats in the engine owners manual. 10w-30, sae30, sae hd 30, 5w-30, conventional, synthetic to Joes homemade 4 cycle oil.

pugaltitude said:

Everybody knows its chipshop vegetable oil is the best to use.
Biodegradable and works at warm temps.
Just syphon all the potato and fish out.

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Dose that make you hungry when you mow your lawn when the exhaust fumes smell like a fish fry?? I wouldn't write what I am really thinking seeing they are XXX.

reynoldston said:

Dose that make you hungry when you mow your lawn when the exhaust fumes smell like a fish fry?? I wouldn't write what I am really thinking seeing they are XXX.

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This is the reply to fish's bar oil debate.

Fish said:

Yeah, you caught me......... I remember on another chainsaw forum, I started a thread about Stihl introducing a Synthetic bar oil
the day before April 1st, I called the techs at bryan equipment in Ohio, they said they had several calls about it.

now a bar oil argument, they can get real fun!!!!!!!

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did you ever meet Dick Bixler?..real nice guy

OK who is Dick Bixler and what is special about him?

pugaltitude said:

Everybody knows its chipshop vegetable oil is the best to use.
Biodegradable and works at warm temps.
Just syphon all the potato and fish out.

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:laughing:....:laughing:

I use Pennzoil Sae 30Wt in all my 4 stroke small engines. It has great lubrication property's and doesn't cost an arm and a leg!!

Mower Doctor 78006 said:

I use Pennzoil Sae 30Wt in all my 4 stroke small engines. It has great lubrication property's and doesn't cost an arm and a leg!!

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You get a discount to afford that pricey conventional oil. Its sold here at for I think $4 per quart.

Its only 12.00 dollars a quart for Amsoil. But seeing its more money its much better oil. You get what you pay for.

reynoldston said:

Its only 12.00 dollars a quart for Amsoil. But seeing its more money its much better oil. You get what you pay for.

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Its 8.30 per quart on the Amsoil site for 4 stroke SAE30.

reynoldston said:

Its only 12.00 dollars a quart for Amsoil. But seeing its more money its much better oil. You get what you pay for.

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Just because it cost more doesn't make it better.

davbell22602 said:

Its 8.30 per quart on the Amsoil site for 4 stroke SAE30.

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Just bought 2 qt. from the motorcycle dealer Full synthetic SAE-20-W50 V-twin oil. 11.90 + tax dollars a quart.

Ric said:

Just because it cost more doesn't make it better.

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By getting the full synthetic you can go a full 100 hr.'s between oil changes. Engine runs better and uses less fuel. I am sure Amsoil can explain their oil much better then I can. You can go to Wally's world and you can buy your oil for less then 2 dollars a quart. Good oil, I use it in my camp mowers. Yes you get what you pay for. Look at the different between a Weed eater one rider and a Ferris ZT, you can see the different. Rub the 2 dollar Wally's oil between your fingers and then the 12.00 dollar Amsoil and you will feel the different.

reynoldston said:

Just bought 2 qt. from the motorcycle dealer Full synthetic SAE-20-W50 V-twin oil. 11.90 + tax dollars a quart.

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Thats motorcycle oil not lawnmower oil.

reynoldston said:

By getting the full synthetic you can go a full 100 hr.'s between oil changes. Engine runs better and uses less fuel. I am sure Amsoil can explain their oil much better then I can. You can go to Wally's world and you can buy your oil for less then 2 dollars a quart. Good oil, I use it in my camp mowers. Yes you get what you pay for. Look at the different between a Weed eater one rider and a Ferris ZT, you can see the different. Rub the 2 dollar Wally's oil between your fingers and then the 12.00 dollar Amsoil and you will feel the different.

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By getting the full synthetic you can go a full 100 hr.'s between oil changes is bogus, just because it's synthetic doesn't mean you can extend oil changes on a mower. One gets just as dirty as the other at 50 hrs and will need changing. A mower engine doesn't run any better on synthetic and really are you measuring the fuel usage on a lawn mower when you can wasting $12.00 on a quart on oil.

No I don't. I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for. I have been using Pennzoil sae 30 Wt for 15 years now. Some of my machines have well over 400 hours on them and run just as good now as they did new. I have tried the lower quality oils. Ie SuperTech The Wal-Mart garbage. After 2 run hours the oil changed colors and started breaking down. In my option there's no need, or reason to run synthetic in a lawn mower!! The manufacture says to run Sae 30. Most synthetics are multi viscosity. I have always changed the oils at the proper intervals. Push mowers every 20 Hours, Riders every 50 hours. Non of my engines have locked up, knocked, or smoke. Most people fall to do proper maintenance. They believe there mowers, lawn equipment will run forever. I have gotten mowers that are 5 years old used very hard and the break in oil was ran that whole time. The block had a hole in it.

davbell22602 said:

You get a discount to afford that pricey conventional oil. Its sold here at for I think $4 per quart.

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Not going to get into what I pay for my Amsoil seeing I buy it from my son-in-law and he is a dealer. I use Premium API CJ-4 Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil in my home lawn mowers. On the net its 10.10 a quart. I buy my motorcycle oil from the HD dealer. If you look Amsoil have different prices for different oils. I am not really questioning the prices. As I see it you get a good quality oil from Wal-Mart called Super Tech and you can't beat their prices if you are that worried what it cost. It takes a quart and a haft for the bigger engines and less then a quart for a push mower and about 3 dollars for a oil filter. It has to cost you more to fill the fuel tank then to change the oil. I use Super Tech oil in my camp mowers and change it once a year. My camp mowers also maybe only get ran about 10 hrs. a year if that much see a neighbor mows the camp lawn with his mower most of the time.

reynoldston said:

Not going to get into what I pay for my Amsoil seeing I buy it from my son-in-law and he is a dealer. I use Premium API CJ-4 Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil in my home lawn mowers. On the net its 10.10 a quart. I buy my motorcycle oil from the HD dealer. If you look Amsoil have different prices for different oils. I am not really questioning the prices. As I see it you get a good quality oil from Wal-Mart called Super Tech and you can't beat their prices if you are that worried what it cost. It takes a quart and a haft for the bigger engines and less then a quart for a push mower and about 3 dollars for a oil filter. It has to cost you more to fill the fuel tank then to change the oil. I use Super Tech oil in my camp mowers and change it once a year. My camp mowers also maybe only get ran about 10 hrs. a year if that much see a neighbor mows the camp lawn with his mower most of the time.

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You mean 2 quarts on bigger engines? The Super Tech is by Pennzoil.

I'll let you believe that. I have seen and heard that its a lower quality Quaker state oil. With less additives. Its packaged by warren petroleum. Its your engine. Your choice!! I'll stick with what I know is good (Pennzoil)

davbell22602 said:

You mean 2 quarts on bigger engines? The Super Tech is by Pennzoil.

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I think we have covered the oil problem thoroughly enough.

LoCo86 said:

I think we have covered the oil problem thoroughly enough.

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Only 164 post on what oil to put into a push mower. Keep it going :thumbsup: I like the fish and chips oil the best.

reynoldston said:

Its only 12.00 dollars a quart for Amsoil. But seeing its more money its much better oil. You get what you pay for.

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Did the "2-stroke" question get an answer? From what I've experienced, these engines use 2-stroke oil in the fuel as the additive. You owner's manual or the person you bought it from should be quite clear about how to answer your question. If you go the AMSOIL route, you will see that this synthetic has the product option that is worth every penny.

meppwc said:

I have a Toro and a Craftsman push mower. I need to change oil using SAE 30W..............but I need to know if I should be using 2 stroke or 4 stroke type oil

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I have always used 15-40. Pretty hot in Texas. No 2-stroke in a 4-stroke engine. Read your manual and change it twice as often as it recommends.

Rule of thumb. If you don't know the required oil... If it is an L-Head engine, more commonly referred to as a Flat Head, use a Straight 30 wgt oil. If it is an Overhead valve, noted by the "Rocker Box" on the head, use a 10W-30. There is quite a difference between 30 and 10W-30 and 10-30. Using a 10W-30 in a flat head, you can literally wear the engine out and be right on the brink of seizing it as the flat heads create quite a bit more heat than an Overhead valve and the Multi-Vis oils normally do not have the ability to lubricate much above 245 on average.

As most engines use a Flat Tappet type cam, stay away from "Fuel Efficient" or "Fuel Conserving" oils. Personally, in my gas equipment, I run AMSOIL MCT 10W-30 Motorcycle oil. When we vend at shows, there are times where it is 100 degrees and the gen virtually runs 24/7 for 10-12 days keeping the A/C going.

Oil, is the LifeBlood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

Bob

reynoldston said:

Only 164 post on what oil to put into a push mower. Keep it going :thumbsup: I like the fish and chips oil the best.

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Yeah baby!!!!

Hey fish oil would work .. I recommend changing each hour. Lol

Everyone was running the ball down the field in their own way, not sure who went in for the TD! Iv'e used riders and pushers for 45yrs. Dad said keep the oil changed, blades sharp, deck clean, filter your gas from can to tank, oil it even if it doesn't have a grease zirk, and check that plug. I pop-riveted a few license plates on decks but never had a major engine problem. When the rest of the mower was done for I usually could find someone needing a engine for their body. Everyone has their own way to take care of business. Hey it's work just to keep up my own landscape. It's so expensive and oh the plastic parts. My first air filter for my HustlerZ from the dealer was $27. Bought one last wk. same price only now imported from c. I'm some what old school. To mow 3&1/2 acres 10 yrs.ago I had a TE21 Ferguson with woods 5ft. finish mower, one rider and 2 push mowers. Now 1 ZTR 60" and one push for the garden and creek banks. I like this forum and the lawnmower heads in it. I help when I can, but sure as I told you to use a certain oil you wouldn't have the performance I did. We could have the same engines, but still be diff. This forum kept me out of the dealer last fall when my electric clutch would not engage hot. Turned out to be the clutch adjustment that is needed so often. Later, Gatorblade

gatorblade said:

Everyone was running the ball down the field in their own way, not sure who went in for the TD! Iv'e used riders and pushers for 45yrs. Dad said keep the oil changed, blades sharp, deck clean, filter your gas from can to tank, oil it even if it doesn't have a grease zirk, and check that plug. I pop-riveted a few license plates on decks but never had a major engine problem. When the rest of the mower was done for I usually could find someone needing a engine for their body. Everyone has their own way to take care of business. Hey it's work just to keep up my own landscape. It's so expensive and oh the plastic parts. My first air filter for my HustlerZ from the dealer was $27. Bought one last wk. same price only now imported from c. I'm some what old school. To mow 3&1/2 acres 10 yrs.ago I had a TE21 Ferguson with woods 5ft. finish mower, one rider and 2 push mowers. Now 1 ZTR 60" and one push for the garden and creek banks. I like this forum and the lawnmower heads in it. I help when I can, but sure as I told you to use a certain oil you wouldn't have the performance I did. We could have the same engines, but still be diff. This forum kept me out of the dealer last fall when my electric clutch would not engage hot. Turned out to be the clutch adjustment that is needed so often. Later, Gatorblade

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Good advice for you! That's how you keep annual machine going. Do all that and don't beat it to death(that's the usual cause of my machines breaking)

Unless LawnBoy is still making them, no push mower has a two stroke cycle engine. That said four stroke cycle oil goes into the crankcase, two stroke cycle oil is mixed into the gasoline and are not interchangeable. To confuse the issue there are four stroke cycle trimmers (weedeater) engines that use oil mixed with the fuel (fuel mix oil is needed).

The type of engine and your local temperatures will affect the best type of non mix oil to use. Old style Briggs without overhead valves do not do well with multiviscosity oils (10w***, 15w***, 20w***), 10w30 is reccomended for most overhead valve lawn mower engines. If the temperature is above 20 degrees F. most push mower engines can get by on straight 30 weight high detergent (do not use non detergent oil). if you are working at extreme temperatures both low and high a multiviscosity oil such as 15w40, 20w50 micht be advisable. Change oil at the beginning of your cutting season and again at half time if you cut a large area (more than a hour a week). If you do not use your mower for a month or more off season, either run it for 15/20 minutes every other week or get it winterized for storage. Keep the fuel tank full or completely empty(dry) to reduce condensation of humidity into the fuel.

4 stroke oil is what you use (same as for your car). If you might use the mower in temperatures around 50 degrees or lower use 10W-30.

tntjamar said:

4 stroke oil is what you use (same as for your car). If you might use the mower in temperatures around 50 degrees or lower use 10W-30.

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This is what they tell you in the manuals too. I would agree 30w for normal range temps. 10w-30 When you hit lower temps outside.

tntjamar said:

4 stroke oil is what you use (same as for your car). If you might use the mower in temperatures around 50 degrees or lower use 10W-30.

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ONLY if it is an OverHead Valve engine. If it is a Flat/L-Head engine, it requires a straight 30

Can someone explain to me in a simple way why a multi weight oil is better in an OHV lawn mower vs. SAE 30?

I have read many Briggs manuals and a fair amount of manuals for Asian made small engines.

It does seem that the Asian engines spec 10w-30 while the Briggs engines will provide a chart based on ambient temperature. My guess is that the Asian Mfg want to cover them selves for all conditions and are keeping it simple for themselves as well as their customers.

According to Briggs 10w-30 or synthetic 5w-30 are acceptable and will cover both cold and hot temperature ranges. However you will burn the oil at a faster rate. It states below 40F the SAE 30 may cause hard starting.

Most people will only run a lawn mower 45 degree F or warmer. Unless it is a convenience issue why not run the SAE 30 and not worry about running low.

So back to my question. If you only run your OHV mower always above 45F. Why would a multi grade oil be better or the best.?

As a separate question......Just curious...how often do people out there cut grass when it is colder than even 50F? I think that is about 10C.

Oil viscosities are temperature dependent and design dependent.
To work properly you need a specific volume of oil at a specific viscosity.

Thus you use what the makers recommend

Honda for example use 10w30 or 10w40
Up side is the lighter base oil makes them a lot easier to start.
Downside is the thinner oil when cold makes them a lot more prone to leaking

Multi grade oil is no better and no worse than monograde oil.
It is a low viscosity base oil with additives that prevent it getting thinner when it gets hot
So at 100 deg it is the same viscosity as 30 would be at 100 deg.

OHV or SV it makes o difference,

Mower oils are different to car oils as they are designed for air cooled engines where the temperature variations within the engine are a lot higher than water cooled engines.
A lot of motorcycle oils are of a similar formulation for the same reason.
However mower oils have extra chemicals in there to prevent corrosion because the engines sit around for weeks doing nothing.

bertsmobile1 said:

Oil viscosities are temperature dependent and design dependent.
To work properly you need a specific volume of oil at a specific viscosity.

Thus you use what the makers recommend

Honda for example use 10w30 or 10w40
Up side is the lighter base oil makes them a lot easier to start.
Downside is the thinner oil when cold makes them a lot more prone to leaking

Multi grade oil is no better and no worse than monograde oil.
It is a low viscosity base oil with additives that prevent it getting thinner when it gets hot
So at 100 deg it is the same viscosity as 30 would be at 100 deg.

OHV or SV it makes o difference,

Mower oils are different to car oils as they are designed for air cooled engines where the temperature variations within the engine are a lot higher than water cooled engines.
A lot of motorcycle oils are of a similar formulation for the same reason.
However mower oils have extra chemicals in there to prevent corrosion because the engines sit around for weeks doing nothing.

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Thanks, you are confirming my hunch that for warmer weather use SAE 30, mono grade oil, would offer an advantage because you will not burn or leak as much. Said otherwise, your usage rate will be lower and the chance of running low is diminished. Regardless of OVH or SV engine style.

Cain't believe I read this whole thread. What in the world does that mean?

What a thread. So I'll add my $0.02. (I'm near retirement and it's raining outside.)

Four-stroke engines.
On a new engine I follow the manufacturers guidance. (Interesting story, I wanted to use synthetic at my first change. Down to the dealer to buy a quart and he told me not o use synthetic until I had xx hours on the engine, I disagreed and showed him where it allowed it in the owners manual (off of a similar model). So we called Simplicity. Finally got to the engineer who specs out the engines. He told us that he had had long talks with the Briggs engineers and they all agreed that only conventional oil should be used in the first xx hours to allow the rings to sit properly. (He was also surprised to learn that that was not the way it was stated in the owners manual, different department, et el).)
So on a new engine, dino juice for the first year. After that I use 5W30 synthetic (usually Mobile One as it's on sale the most).
Any 4-stroke oil that marked with ILSAC GF-2, has an API certification, and lists “SJ/CF Energy Conserving”.
As to using two-stroke oil in a four-stroke engine. Will it work? Sure. So will corn oil. (For a while). Excellent way to cause premature engine wear. (See additional comments below.)

Two stroke engines (such as trimmers and the like).
Now this is where it gets important. Two-cycle oils are intended for consumption during the fuel burning process are are specially formulated with additive chemistry and base oils which tend to leave minimum amounts of ash. Two-cycle oils are also pre-diluted for easier mixing and more complete combustion.
The best two-cycle oils are labeled with a symbol from the National Marine Manufacturers Association and are given the designation TC-W3. ("TC" stands for two-cycle, "W" means water-cooled and "3" designates the most current generation of two-cycle oils.)
It's also important to use the right quantity in mixing the oil. Mixing too little is obvious, bearing scuffing, engine wear; too much can lead to ring sticking (not allowing the rings to rotate or move in the lands).

More importantly than which brand, is THE TYPE OF GASOLINE. Gas basically comes to two flavors. Those mixed with Ethanol and those not mixed with Ethanol. Ethanol is an alcohol. Depending on the temperature and humidity, the Ethanol begins to separate from gas in as little as 30 days. (It will also start to draw water from the air to itself and this forms a gum deposit that will plug the tiny jets in a carburetor.)
But it's the separation that causes the most problems. When a small engine sucks in gas that has a high content of alcohol, the octane rating jumps. The temperatures in the cylinder skyrockets and will melt the cylinder head or burn a hole in the top of the piston.
One way to counteract this is to ONLY use Premium gas in small engine equipment. Premium has a higher octane rating. The octane rating of gasoline tells you how much the fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. It causes the engine to run cooler. Basically it limits the highest temperature an engine will run at when exposed to Ethanol that has separated out. (It's also the reason you should NOT use premium in your automobile if it doesn't call for it. Your mileage will drop.) Some dealers recommend mid-grade, I like 93 octane.
Another factor on gas, TOP-TIER gas IS better than off-brand. Google "top tier gas stations" and it will show you a map of all the top-tier gas stations in your area. Top-tier gas has better additives, better in your car, but also better for the small engine as well (just not as important as automobile grade service.)
The last thing is to use a good gas treatment. I use Sea Foam. Keeping in mind that gas starts to go bad the minute it's exposed to air, I mix Sea Foam to my empty gas can, BEFORE I add the gas. Add about a gallon, slosh it around to mix it, then continue filling to the 5-gallon mark.

There was some discussion about using 4-stroke oil in a 2-stroke engine. In four-cycle engine, the oil is circulated by way of a splash lubrication or actual oil pump. In any case its specifically designed for this type of service. Two-cycle oil is NOT designed to be circulated and is intended to burn up inside the cylinder.
Two-cycles oils have a lower flash point than four-cycles (example; 2 cycle = 132°C vs. 4 cycle = 226°C lower viscosity (2 cycle = 8.7 cSt@100°C vs. 4 cycle = 10.8 cSt@100°C). You NEED higher viscosity oil to withstand the higher temperatures of the four-cycle engine. Two-cycle oil cannot withstand temperatures above 132°C and will fail to lubricate a hot four-cycle engine.
If you use four-cycle oil in a two-cycle engine, it will work, but it will also carbon up the cylinder and valves. Using a 30-weight non-detergent would be the best bet. But n small engines like a trimmer, it could seize the engine. Best not to do it at all. Additionally a non-2T-specific oil can turn to gum in a matter of days if mixed with gasoline and not immediately consumed.

When my Exmark with Kawasaki engine was new, I took it back to my dealer, who charged me $8/quart for Exmark SAE30w oil. Next time it needed changing, he told me, "You can change it yourself, if you like, using any brand of 4-stroke SAE30w oil". I appreciate his honesty and now change my mower oil each season, using Castrol SAE30w oil from WalMart. I would never want to use 2-stroke oil in my mower engine. I think it's too thin.

deriter said:

Cain't believe I read this whole thread. What in the world does that mean?

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It shows that the advertising that no one is ever influenced by has confused 1/2 the population and the other 1/2 are all "experts" in something they know next to nothing about.
Thus in the manufactured confusion some oil vendors are making a fortune.
Dad used to have a fixed reply for people with oil fettishes.
"You know what the absolute best oil is,,,,,, the stuff you just changed "
There is no such thing as changing your oil too often, engine love clean fresh oil.
The only thing a consumer should worry about is selecting a viscosity that is within the engine makers parrameters for the temperature ranges the mower is used in.
After that is is just a matter of actually checking it.

somewhere around page 14 I burned out on reading. Was trying to see if there was an article whether detergent or non-detergent SAE 30 worked best in this old edger but since we had chicken tonight I think we'll just use the old Crisco after straining it. :laughing:

sgkent said:

somewhere around page 14 I burned out on reading. Was trying to see if there was an article whether detergent or non-detergent SAE 30 worked best in this old edger but since we had chicken tonight I think we'll just use the old Crisco after straining it. :laughing:

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Well the answer was there

Detergent oils for engines with disposable filters
Non detergent oils for engines without disposable filters.

The only purpose of detergents is to hold the crud in suspension for long enough to allow the filter to remove it

Sorry Bert, have to disagree with you on this one. Detergent oils should also be used with small engines with no filters. As you said the detergent holds the crud in suspension so it can be removed when changing the oil. This is the reason you must warm up and agitate the oil before changing.

I think we can dissagree on this & still be friends.
It will depend weather you consider the sump to be a setteling tank or not.
In any case, finding a non-detergent oil now days is near impossible as it is only made for vintage dry sump engines and some very large dry sump marine engines.
It is also more expensive than regular engine oils and all mower oils we can get down here are detergent.

With a detergent oil there should be little requirement to run the engine prior to changing as in theory all of the crud should be in suspension and not sludged out on the bottom of the sump.
However mixing it up and heating so it runs free is a good idea.

For interest, do you know of any non-detergent lawn mower oils ?
I don't which is one reason why I find these sorts of posts so amusing.
People argueing in ignorance with great passion about a package that is not available for the end use they intend.

Here in the US Menards carries a 30wt non-detergent oil in their mower oil section. Probably not a big seller, or a non seller actually. Might be good for use in some gear boxes and general lubrication? Oil selections have been argued to death lately, darn near impossible to actually know what oil has what additives, and what motors need certain additives.

tom3 said:

Here in the US Menards carries a 30wt non-detergent oil in their mower oil section. Probably not a big seller, or a non seller actually. Might be good for use in some gear boxes and general lubrication? Oil selections have been argued to death lately, darn near impossible to actually know what oil has what additives, and what motors need certain additives.

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What is happening is EPA regulations keep on getting tighter for things that do not matter nor make a difference.
So oil formulations need to keep changing
All of the oils with a primary viscosity of less than 10 were developed to reduce drag on CAR engines so the engine fires on the very first piston that comes up to TDC firing stroke so there are almost no unburned fuel released into the atmosphere.
Unfortunately very low viscosity oils drain almost completely so things have to be added to make them stick to metal bits to avoid a dry start if the engine has not been run for a while.
Lead, Copper and now Zinc have all been added to the EPA's "devils metal" list so have to be reduced or replaced all together.
What generally happens is they get replaced with something 20 times worse for the enviroment but it takes the EPA 10 years to work this out so they eventually ban that and the cycle continues.

Eventually the EPA boffins will catch up with reality and work out the old formulas were best and the enviroment can handle the contaminants provided they are not dumped in massive amounts.
There are bacteria that consume oil, quite a few of them but the dispersants that we put on oil slicks so they don't look bad kill off the bacteria.
This is of course along the lines of "if you can not see it , it does not exist " theory of pollution.
There are also fungi that consume oil which like the bacteria are also killed by the dispersants we use to break up spills & slicks.
The fungi are safe for cattle to eat and then the pollution no longer exists because it has been turned into food.
However solving any pollution problem is not part of the EPA's charter and of course would put them out of business.

yep detergent. Found it a few minutes ago in the fine print in the old manual. Thank you to all who replied.

Re the fungi and bacteria. There was a You tube at one time of fungi eating an oil spill in the Pacific NW. What was a messy pile slowly returned to green plants when it was done - about 3 years. Amazing to see. Nature has been dealing with oil seepage for a very long time.

Re the Zinc etc. It damages catalytic convertors but not as fast as lead does. People want 100,000 miles out of them and complain to their government officials when they go bad every 40,000 miles. The government then passes EPA rules to make the convertors last longer.

Yep,
Go to any petrol stations ( filling stations to some ) in rural areas where there is a significant area that is unpaved.
Plenty of grasses & weeds growing quite happily in "highly contaminated " soil.
If the station closes down the EPA will require the top soil to be taken away& incenerated because of al of the "highly toxic" heavy metals.
Yet plants grow quite happily, bees & other insects feed on the plants quite happily , catipillars will eat the plants and turn into moths & butterflys but apparently should you build a house on it and grow grass, your children will grow 5 sets of genitals if they are allowed to run over the grass.

I don't know of any small 4 cycle engine that calls for a non-detergent motor oil. Some of the early small engines called for non-detergent because the dipper type oil lube systems was supposed to cause foaming of the detergent leading to lack of lubrication. I believe non-detergent is still recommended in oil bath air filter systems since you want the dirt to settle to the bottom.

Non-detergent is still used in pressure washer pumps maybe due to foaming concerns or maybe you want any impurities to settle to the bottom of the washer pump.

Non detergent oils are still used in compressor pumps, which have a higher concentration of moisture and run at a lower temperatures. I always keep a quart of 30W around, normally Valvoline or Campbell Hausfeld, for the unexpected calls.

Rivets said:

Non detergent oils are still used in compressor pumps, which have a higher concentration of moisture and run at a lower temperatures. I always keep a quart of 30W around, normally Valvoline or Campbell Hausfeld, for the unexpected calls.

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Forgot about air compressors.

Well the accountants strike again by telling sales what to stock. Went to O'reillys for 30W oil. They had the lowest grade Valvoline possible and O'reiilys cheapest possible, nothing else. Grabbed what they had since it is just an edger.

I was told that full-synthetic oil keeps your engine cooler, and it will smoke less, which I can attest to.

Since it is nearly impossible to get straight-weight synthetic oil, just use the multi-grade with the highest winter-weight, like 10W-30.

The latter number is what's most important, because in the warmer temperatures that you're mowing in, the oil have the same viscosity as a 30-weight oil. In the winter, the oil will flow as a 10-weight oil when it's cold.

In your car, however, you use what the owner's manual says; they're much more sensitive to viscosity than lawn mower engines.

So Far.

efred said:

I was told that full-synthetic oil keeps your engine cooler, and it will smoke less, which I can attest to.

Since it is nearly impossible to get straight-weight synthetic oil, just use the multi-grade with the highest winter-weight, like 10W-30.

The latter number is what's most important, because in the warmer temperatures that you're mowing in, the oil have the same viscosity as a 30-weight oil. In the winter, the oil will flow as a 10-weight oil when it's cold.

In your car, however, you use what the owner's manual says; they're much more sensitive to viscosity than lawn mower engines.

So Far.

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Usually i would pass over something like this but as there are so many missconceptions about oils this statement needs some clarification.
the first number in a multigrade is the viscosity OF THE BASE OIL which should be the viscosity at 20 deg C.
The other number is the viscosity of the oil at working temperature which is around 100 deg C

Multigrades do not get thicker as they get hotter, they just thin down less.
So with a 10w30 , from cold it will flow like a 10w oil which makes for easy starting
When running it will be the same viscosity as a strait 30 at 100 c which is more ( slower ) than what a strait 10 w would be at the same temperature .
IT has little to nothing to do with the external temperature once the engine is running

bertsmobile1 said:

Usually i would pass over something like this but as there are so many missconceptions about oils this statement needs some clarification.
the first number in a multigrade is the viscosity OF THE BASE OIL which should be the viscosity at 20 deg C.
The other number is the viscosity of the oil at working temperature which is around 100 deg C

Multigrades do not get thicker as they get hotter, they just thin down less.
So with a 10w30 , from cold it will flow like a 10w oil which makes for easy starting
When running it will be the same viscosity as a strait 30 at 100 c which is more ( slower ) than what a strait 10 w would be at the same temperature .
IT has little to nothing to do with the external temperature once the engine is running

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Don't you mean 20 deg F instead of C and:confused2: 100 deg F instead of C