You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Should ZTR operators be ticketed if the ROPS bar is removed?
#1
X-man
X-man
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
#2
RatRacer
No.
Tickets only should be issued if they are a legally mandated requirement that has been ignored.
We all live by our choices, and "natural selection" will determine if we made the right one.
RatRacer
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. Forgot who started the thread. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
No.
Tickets only should be issued if they are a legally mandated requirement that has been ignored.
We all live by our choices, and "natural selection" will determine if we made the right one.
#3
Ric
In order to ticket you would have to change the residential units or ZTR because they are not required to have a ROPS.
Ric
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. Forgot who started the thread. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
In order to ticket you would have to change the residential units or ZTR because they are not required to have a ROPS.
#4
M
mowerman05
M
mowerman05
what about removing the side discharge? it wont kill you but it might kill somebody else.
#5
X-man
A discharge is different. It's not gonna save you if you end up overturning your lawn mower.
But all BS aside, I really hate it when I see a lawn mower with the discharge guard removed. The way my mower deck is designed, I can very easily have a rock smoke me in the eye if I didn't have my guard bolted to the deck (it broke off last year).
X-man
what about removing the side discharge? it wont kill you but it might kill somebody else.
A discharge is different. It's not gonna save you if you end up overturning your lawn mower.
But all BS aside, I really hate it when I see a lawn mower with the discharge guard removed. The way my mower deck is designed, I can very easily have a rock smoke me in the eye if I didn't have my guard bolted to the deck (it broke off last year).
#6
djdicetn
djdicetn
I voted yes, specifically on the premise of "liability" and "protective" measures that I feel are in the best interest of a professional lawn care maintenance worker, their family, the owner/license holder(if applicable) and would include mandantory wearing of the seat belt. Now do I want a police officer to observe me(or you) mowing our personal property without the same enforcement.....that's a hard one(I am answerable only to myself and family....NOT a paying customer that my wife could sue, along with my boss). And, I believe a dealership(and manufacturer) has some accountability if a ZTR is "sold as" a commercial ZTR(or in the case of my Gravely has "Commercial" plastered across the front of it). I understand the ramifications(cost-wise for equipment) this puts on start-up commercial individuals, but like most enforceable "laws" many end up as being forced to comply with that business' regulations(debateably whether in their best interest). They already have to adhere to DOT regulations regarding the trailering requirements of their equipment(mandantory tie-down, GVWR specs of trailer, etc.). Many will despise me for even bringing this up(yes, I am the OP of the thread mentioned by X-man) but IMHO this is the "elephant in the room" to quote therapy notations of a problem being "ignored" rather than confronted that forums like this just do NOT want to talk about. I knew it would stir up a hornet's nest.....Sorry:0(
#7
djdicetn
Mowerman05,
Different topic....but point well made!! Just what constitutes a safety hazard for a ZTR mower???? The manufacturer of all mowers put side discharge protection(again, because of "liability" when a homeowner breaks a window or puts out someone's eye...then wants to sue MTD) so when the owner removes it...MTD is no longer "liable".
djdicetn
what about removing the side discharge? it wont kill you but it might kill somebody else.
Mowerman05,
Different topic....but point well made!! Just what constitutes a safety hazard for a ZTR mower???? The manufacturer of all mowers put side discharge protection(again, because of "liability" when a homeowner breaks a window or puts out someone's eye...then wants to sue MTD) so when the owner removes it...MTD is no longer "liable".
#8
lawn mower fanatic
I voted NO. I don't have a ZTR but personally I think that not all lawns would need the use of a ROPS bar. I think people should be notified that the use of the ROPS is recommended, but I think you should be able to do what you want, because if you have a super-flat yard but have low tree branches, the ROPS would hit the branches and cause a danger if you don't want to trim them!
lawn mower fanatic
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
I voted NO. I don't have a ZTR but personally I think that not all lawns would need the use of a ROPS bar. I think people should be notified that the use of the ROPS is recommended, but I think you should be able to do what you want, because if you have a super-flat yard but have low tree branches, the ROPS would hit the branches and cause a danger if you don't want to trim them!
#9
Old Goat
I voted no, because I already took mine off. Too many low branches to hang up on around our live oaks. They should be sold with them though, because some people will operate them in places with too much slope and then the manufacturer would have lawsuits. I don't have those worries here and the choice is mine.
I also have taken off the discharge chute, because I find it's not needed. Many mowers are made with the deck discharge having no overhang, in fact if you pull up the plastic chute you are looking at the blade whirling around and are really dangerous in that respect. I made sure the Big Dog I bought did have sufficient overhang. Our old mower was an MTD and also hang sufficient overhang and never threw a projectile in 13 years of mowing. Again, MY choice.
Old Goat
I voted NO. I don't have a ZTR but personally I think that not all lawns would need the use of a ROPS bar. I think people should be notified that the use of the ROPS is recommended, but I think you should be able to do what you want, because if you have a super-flat yard but have low tree branches, the ROPS would hit the branches and cause a danger if you don't want to trim them!
I voted no, because I already took mine off. Too many low branches to hang up on around our live oaks. They should be sold with them though, because some people will operate them in places with too much slope and then the manufacturer would have lawsuits. I don't have those worries here and the choice is mine.
I also have taken off the discharge chute, because I find it's not needed. Many mowers are made with the deck discharge having no overhang, in fact if you pull up the plastic chute you are looking at the blade whirling around and are really dangerous in that respect. I made sure the Big Dog I bought did have sufficient overhang. Our old mower was an MTD and also hang sufficient overhang and never threw a projectile in 13 years of mowing. Again, MY choice.
#10
Ric
Now are you saying that the commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker should be ticketed if they are not using a rops and wearing a seat belt??? If you are it can't be done without a lot of changes.
Ric
I voted yes, specifically on the premise of "liability" and "protective" measures that I feel are in the best interest of a professional lawn care maintenance worker, their family, the owner/license holder(if applicable) and would include mandantory wearing of the seat belt. Now do I want a police officer to observe me(or you) mowing our personal property without the same enforcement.....that's a hard one(I am answerable only to myself and family....NOT a paying customer that my wife could sue, along with my boss). And, I believe a dealership(and manufacturer) has some accountability if a ZTR is "sold as" a commercial ZTR(or in the case of my Gravely has "Commercial" plastered across the front of it). I understand the ramifications(cost-wise for equipment) this puts on start-up commercial individuals, but like most enforceable "laws" many end up as being forced to comply with that business' regulations(debateably whether in their best interest). They already have to adhere to DOT regulations regarding the trailering requirements of their equipment(mandantory tie-down, GVWR specs of trailer, etc.). Many will despise me for even bringing this up(yes, I am the OP of the thread mentioned by X-man) but IMHO this is the "elephant in the room" to quote therapy notations of a problem being "ignored" rather than confronted that forums like this just do NOT want to talk about. I knew it would stir up a hornet's nest.....Sorry:0(
Now are you saying that the commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker should be ticketed if they are not using a rops and wearing a seat belt??? If you are it can't be done without a lot of changes.
#11
djdicetn
Ric,
Well it's obvious that my opinion, regardless of how interpreted, is definitely a minority view(with 10 NO votes and only my 1 YES vote:0)
And as eluded to just previously by user Old Goat, anyone can refuse to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle(but probably would make their child wear one) and even motorcycle riders in TN are "required" to wear a helmet and are fined if they don't. It would be extremely difficult to enforce a private homeowner as Old Goat's scenario discussed, in regard to removing or not using a discharge chute cover, ROPS and/or seat belts. In regards to a dealer selling a ZTR designated as "Commercial", whether to me for personal use or to you for a business, I think they should be required to explain the benefit of using said safety features and therefore satisfying any liabilityon their part or the manufacturer for the user having an accident. But yes, in a nutshell, the recent news story about the "professional lawn maintenance guy" being killed when the JD ZTR turned over compelled me to wonder whether "I would pay someone to mow my lawn on a ZTR that did NOT have/use a ROPS and/or seatbelt". I think that someone doing this for a living should be held accountable at a higher level for any fear of liability on the part of a customer, their dealer and the manufacturer should the deceased worker's spouse decide to sue ony of those entities over the lack of safety adherence. Is that really(9 to 1 against) such a way out in left field perspective???
djdicetn
Now are you saying that the commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker should be ticketed if they are not using a rops and wearing a seat belt??? If you are it can't be done without a lot of changes.
Ric,
Well it's obvious that my opinion, regardless of how interpreted, is definitely a minority view(with 10 NO votes and only my 1 YES vote:0)
And as eluded to just previously by user Old Goat, anyone can refuse to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle(but probably would make their child wear one) and even motorcycle riders in TN are "required" to wear a helmet and are fined if they don't. It would be extremely difficult to enforce a private homeowner as Old Goat's scenario discussed, in regard to removing or not using a discharge chute cover, ROPS and/or seat belts. In regards to a dealer selling a ZTR designated as "Commercial", whether to me for personal use or to you for a business, I think they should be required to explain the benefit of using said safety features and therefore satisfying any liabilityon their part or the manufacturer for the user having an accident. But yes, in a nutshell, the recent news story about the "professional lawn maintenance guy" being killed when the JD ZTR turned over compelled me to wonder whether "I would pay someone to mow my lawn on a ZTR that did NOT have/use a ROPS and/or seatbelt". I think that someone doing this for a living should be held accountable at a higher level for any fear of liability on the part of a customer, their dealer and the manufacturer should the deceased worker's spouse decide to sue ony of those entities over the lack of safety adherence. Is that really(9 to 1 against) such a way out in left field perspective???
#12
Ric
My point was that were talking about the Commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker and we shouldn't be, We should be talking about the equipment. The problem with ticketing the LCO is that there are a lot of smaller LCO's use residential equipment (ZTR) especially when starting out which doesn't come with seat belts and a Rops so as I see it you have to limit the laws to those who use Commercial equipment but if you do that you could only fine those who are using the ZTR because most everything else is doesn't come with seat belts and a Rops. What would we do about the Standers which for all intents and purposes are a ZTR mower or the Wright Sentar or Sport ZTR mowers that has a seat but is used as a stander.
Ric
Now are you saying that the commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker should be ticketed if they are not using a rops and wearing a seat belt??? If you are it can't be done without a lot of changes.
Ric,
Well it's obvious that my opinion, regardless of how interpreted, is definitely a minority view(with 10 NO votes and only my 1 YES vote:0)
And as eluded to just previously by user Old Goat, anyone can refuse to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle(but probably would make their child wear one) and even motorcycle riders in TN are "required" to wear a helmet and are fined if they don't. It would be extremely difficult to enforce a private homeowner as Old Goat's scenario discussed, in regard to removing or not using a discharge chute cover, ROPS and/or seat belts. In regards to a dealer selling a ZTR designated as "Commercial", whether to me for personal use or to you for a business, I think they should be required to explain the benefit of using said safety features and therefore satisfying any liabilityon their part or the manufacturer for the user having an accident. But yes, in a nutshell, the recent news story about the "professional lawn maintenance guy" being killed when the JD ZTR turned over compelled me to wonder whether "I would pay someone to mow my lawn on a ZTR that did NOT have/use a ROPS and/or seatbelt". I think that someone doing this for a living should be held accountable at a higher level for any fear of liability on the part of a customer, their dealer and the manufacturer should the deceased worker's spouse decide to sue ony of those entities over the lack of safety adherence. Is that really(9 to 1 against) such a way out in left field perspective???
My point was that were talking about the Commercial or professional lawn care maintenance worker and we shouldn't be, We should be talking about the equipment. The problem with ticketing the LCO is that there are a lot of smaller LCO's use residential equipment (ZTR) especially when starting out which doesn't come with seat belts and a Rops so as I see it you have to limit the laws to those who use Commercial equipment but if you do that you could only fine those who are using the ZTR because most everything else is doesn't come with seat belts and a Rops. What would we do about the Standers which for all intents and purposes are a ZTR mower or the Wright Sentar or Sport ZTR mowers that has a seat but is used as a stander.
#13
Old Goat
In this perpective, I would not even think about hiring someone to cut my property with a ZTR and no ROP's bar. I would not even want to start having conversations with insurance agents and lawyers in that scenario!
Old Goat
in a nutshell, the recent news story about the "professional lawn maintenance guy" being killed when the JD ZTR turned over compelled me to wonder whether "I would pay someone to mow my lawn on a ZTR that did NOT have/use a ROPS and/or seatbelt". I think that someone doing this for a living should be held accountable at a higher level for any fear of liability on the part of a customer, their dealer and the manufacturer should the deceased worker's spouse decide to sue ony of those entities over the lack of safety adherence. Is that really(9 to 1 against) such a way out in left field perspective???
In this perpective, I would not even think about hiring someone to cut my property with a ZTR and no ROP's bar. I would not even want to start having conversations with insurance agents and lawyers in that scenario!
#14
A_tank96
A_tank96
My John Deere 425 has the discharge chute removed. Had it removed for 12 years now, never had anyone get hurt. The safety seat is also disengaged because I mowed when I was little and my grandpa took it off so I could mow. If I'm mowing on a hill I want a ROPS Anything else and I'll use my own common sense.
#15
scott47429
scott47429
i voted no but i think if your cutting where there is a danger of over turning you should use it but its alot like seat belts in a car i dont think the law should be able to tell you to wear them if you want to kill yourself then so be it whos it hurting other then you i mean you have to wear a seat belt in a car but you dont have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle
#16
djdicetn
X-Man,
I sure wish you had clarified "Commercial ZTR operators" in this poll(my whole point in that "nasty rage' thread was about a recent lawn maintenance professional who was killed on a ZTR without a ROPS). A homeowner being restricted is a completely different matter and maybe I wouldn't be outnumbered in votes 13 to 1 if we weren't getting the "homeowner perspective". My question for all readers of this thread is would you or I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, then have their widowed spouse sue us and our homeowners insurance company because of our ditch that killed their husband???? It's gonna happen it's just a matter of time.
djdicetn
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
X-Man,
I sure wish you had clarified "Commercial ZTR operators" in this poll(my whole point in that "nasty rage' thread was about a recent lawn maintenance professional who was killed on a ZTR without a ROPS). A homeowner being restricted is a completely different matter and maybe I wouldn't be outnumbered in votes 13 to 1 if we weren't getting the "homeowner perspective". My question for all readers of this thread is would you or I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, then have their widowed spouse sue us and our homeowners insurance company because of our ditch that killed their husband???? It's gonna happen it's just a matter of time.
#17
djdicetn
A_tank96,
So what would you do if your mower threw a rock through the windshield of your customer's Mecedes Benz. That would hurt your profit that summer and/or insurance coverage premium.
djdicetn
My John Deere 425 has the discharge chute removed. Had it removed for 12 years now, never had anyone get hurt. The safety seat is also disengaged because I mowed when I was little and my grandpa took it off so I could mow. If I'm mowing on a hill I want a ROPS Anything else and I'll use my own common sense.
A_tank96,
So what would you do if your mower threw a rock through the windshield of your customer's Mecedes Benz. That would hurt your profit that summer and/or insurance coverage premium.
#18
djdicetn
scott47429,
You don't want to ride your motorcycle in Tennessee then(if you don't want a ticket). It's a law here. If you kill yourself mowing a yard for hire because of a ditch in the paying customer's yard, what's to prevent your widow from filing a lawsuit????
djdicetn
i voted no but i think if your cutting where there is a danger of over turning you should use it but its alot like seat belts in a car i dont think the law should be able to tell you to wear them if you want to kill yourself then so be it whos it hurting other then you i mean you have to wear a seat belt in a car but you dont have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle
scott47429,
You don't want to ride your motorcycle in Tennessee then(if you don't want a ticket). It's a law here. If you kill yourself mowing a yard for hire because of a ditch in the paying customer's yard, what's to prevent your widow from filing a lawsuit????
#19
Ric
If you are asking would I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, my answer would be yes and I think most people would also. I was out mowing this morning and saw three other businesses out mowing, one with a 60 with Dixie Chopper another with a 60" Exmark and one with a Toro but I couldn't tell what size and none had a Rops on there mower. The thing is that most people or costumers unless they are familiar with mowers don't even know what it is. My guess is if you started looking for company's that use the Commercial ZTR you would fined that the greatest percentage of company's are without or don't use a Rops.
Ric
X-Man,
I sure wish you had clarified "Commercial ZTR operators" in this poll(my whole point in that "nasty rage' thread was about a recent lawn maintenance professional who was killed on a ZTR without a ROPS). A homeowner being restricted is a completely different matter and maybe I wouldn't be outnumbered in votes 13 to 1 if we weren't getting the "homeowner perspective". My question for all readers of this thread is would you or I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, then have their widowed spouse sue us and our homeowners insurance company because of our ditch that killed their husband???? It's gonna happen it's just a matter of time.
If you are asking would I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, my answer would be yes and I think most people would also. I was out mowing this morning and saw three other businesses out mowing, one with a 60 with Dixie Chopper another with a 60" Exmark and one with a Toro but I couldn't tell what size and none had a Rops on there mower. The thing is that most people or costumers unless they are familiar with mowers don't even know what it is. My guess is if you started looking for company's that use the Commercial ZTR you would fined that the greatest percentage of company's are without or don't use a Rops.
#20
djdicetn
Ric,
Well maybe I need to Google "fatalities on Zero Turn Mowers" to get a perspective, as mentioned in one of these threads, about just what the statisics say about that. I'm just about to the point where if I could "change my vote" it would be 0 Yes votes and 15 No votes(or somebody is going to have to vote yes just so I don't feel so bad & lonely:0)
djdicetn
If you are asking would I pay someone to mow our yard without a ROPS and seat belt, my answer would be yes and I think most people would also. I was out mowing this morning and saw three other businesses out mowing, one with a 60 with Dixie Chopper another with a 60" Exmark and one with a Toro but I couldn't tell what size and none had a Rops on there mower. The thing is that most people or costumers unless they are familiar with mowers don't even know what it is. My guess is if you started looking for company's that use the Commercial ZTR you would fined that the greatest percentage of company's are without or don't use a Rops.
Ric,
Well maybe I need to Google "fatalities on Zero Turn Mowers" to get a perspective, as mentioned in one of these threads, about just what the statisics say about that. I'm just about to the point where if I could "change my vote" it would be 0 Yes votes and 15 No votes(or somebody is going to have to vote yes just so I don't feel so bad & lonely:0)
#21
Ric
According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission it is estimated that there are about 12,000 serious injuries caused by ride-on mowers each year with fatalities ranging from 30 to 50.
Ric
Ric,
Well maybe I need to Google "fatalities on Zero Turn Mowers" to get a perspective, as mentioned in one of these threads, about just what the statisics say about that. I'm just about to the point where if I could "change my vote" it would be 0 Yes votes and 15 No votes(or somebody is going to have to vote yes just so I don't feel so bad & lonely:0)
According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission it is estimated that there are about 12,000 serious injuries caused by ride-on mowers each year with fatalities ranging from 30 to 50.
#22
djdicetn
Well, 30 to 50 annually probably wouldn't spark a grass roots movement for mandantory safety legilsation but even that many makes me wanna slow down a little and be careful!!
djdicetn
According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission it is estimated that there are about 12,000 serious injuries caused by ride-on mowers each year with fatalities ranging from 30 to 50.
Well, 30 to 50 annually probably wouldn't spark a grass roots movement for mandantory safety legilsation but even that many makes me wanna slow down a little and be careful!!
#23
X-man
X-man
After doing some reading, this is what I think about when it comes to the ROPS bar.
If all you do is mow on flat land, or if you have a bunch of trees hanging low that can cause a problem, then yeah, you don't have to worry about anything if you remove the ROPS. But, if you mow on hilly land or around a deep ditch, then I would definetly keeps the ROPS bar on my ZTR.
I don't think you should be fined if you remove the ROPS, because it is your decision on whether or not it is safe without it.
A seatbelt is different, however. Every time you are driving on the road, you are always at risk of colliding into some schmuck that doesn't know how to drive and fly out of the windshield. That's why it is a law (that saves lives) to wear your seatbelt (unless you are on private property). You don't have that risk driving a lawn mower because typically you are cutting the grass.
Again, I feel that you should not be fined if your ROPS is missing.
If all you do is mow on flat land, or if you have a bunch of trees hanging low that can cause a problem, then yeah, you don't have to worry about anything if you remove the ROPS. But, if you mow on hilly land or around a deep ditch, then I would definetly keeps the ROPS bar on my ZTR.
I don't think you should be fined if you remove the ROPS, because it is your decision on whether or not it is safe without it.
A seatbelt is different, however. Every time you are driving on the road, you are always at risk of colliding into some schmuck that doesn't know how to drive and fly out of the windshield. That's why it is a law (that saves lives) to wear your seatbelt (unless you are on private property). You don't have that risk driving a lawn mower because typically you are cutting the grass.
Again, I feel that you should not be fined if your ROPS is missing.
#24
jekjr
Of those accidents with mowers and those fatalities from mowers it would be interesting to know how many are roll overs from Zero turns.
Personally I find as much danger in trees coming in contact with ROPs as with a roll over. I run a zero turn all day lots of days and I have had more near misses from the ROPs coming in contact with trees and other obstacles than I have had near misses in roll over situations. I run my mowers with the ROPs folded and even with them folded they present problems of this nature.
It is the nature of the operation to have the operator's attention focused downward and not upward. Ditches, steep hillsides, and washouts are definitely dangerous. Because the operator's attention is focused on the ground however he is more apt to be able to see them and avoid them. Also ground speed is normally at a very minimum on steep inclines. Many times a low hanging limb will be a encountered on level ground where the ground speed is much higher.
One other thought if you are so hyped up on zero turns why not make ALL riding mowers have to have them regardless of size?
Personally I would 1000 times rather put my zero turns in steep one sided places than I had a lawn tractor that you seem to not be concerned about.
jekjr
Well, 30 to 50 annually probably wouldn't spark a grass roots movement for mandantory safety legilsation but even that many makes me wanna slow down a little and be careful!!
Of those accidents with mowers and those fatalities from mowers it would be interesting to know how many are roll overs from Zero turns.
Personally I find as much danger in trees coming in contact with ROPs as with a roll over. I run a zero turn all day lots of days and I have had more near misses from the ROPs coming in contact with trees and other obstacles than I have had near misses in roll over situations. I run my mowers with the ROPs folded and even with them folded they present problems of this nature.
It is the nature of the operation to have the operator's attention focused downward and not upward. Ditches, steep hillsides, and washouts are definitely dangerous. Because the operator's attention is focused on the ground however he is more apt to be able to see them and avoid them. Also ground speed is normally at a very minimum on steep inclines. Many times a low hanging limb will be a encountered on level ground where the ground speed is much higher.
One other thought if you are so hyped up on zero turns why not make ALL riding mowers have to have them regardless of size?
Personally I would 1000 times rather put my zero turns in steep one sided places than I had a lawn tractor that you seem to not be concerned about.
#25
djdicetn
jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)
djdicetn
Of those accidents with mowers and those fatalities from mowers it would be interesting to know how many are roll overs from Zero turns.
Personally I find as much danger in trees coming in contact with ROPs as with a roll over. I run a zero turn all day lots of days and I have had more near misses from the ROPs coming in contact with trees and other obstacles than I have had near misses in roll over situations. I run my mowers with the ROPs folded and even with them folded they present problems of this nature.
It is the nature of the operation to have the operator's attention focused downward and not upward. Ditches, steep hillsides, and washouts are definitely dangerous. Because the operator's attention is focused on the ground however he is more apt to be able to see them and avoid them. Also ground speed is normally at a very minimum on steep inclines. Many times a low hanging limb will be a encountered on level ground where the ground speed is much higher.
One other thought if you are so hyped up on zero turns why not make ALL riding mowers have to have them regardless of size?
Personally I would 1000 times rather put my zero turns in steep one sided places than I had a lawn tractor that you seem to not be concerned about.
jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)
#26
jekjr
Te thing about it is, if you cut your yard and only our yard you immediately know after one or two cuttings what obstacles to watch out for to keep from hanging the ROPs on. However if you cut many different yards you run into a problem of not seeing all of them and it is a major hazard in it's self. I hung one yesterday on my 326 and had the front wheels off the ground.
jekjr
jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)
Te thing about it is, if you cut your yard and only our yard you immediately know after one or two cuttings what obstacles to watch out for to keep from hanging the ROPs on. However if you cut many different yards you run into a problem of not seeing all of them and it is a major hazard in it's self. I hung one yesterday on my 326 and had the front wheels off the ground.
#27
jekjr
jekjr
My personal belief on all of this is that people that run equipment ought to be the ones that determine what is safe and what is not. People that sit in offices and are as clueless as a pig looking at a wrist watch ought not be telling those that operate equipment daily what they need to do for their own safety. If you feel safer with a ROPs on your mower and a seat belt on the leave it on and wear the belt. For many it is a trade off and they have more concern of the thing flipping them from hitting an obstacle than they do operating on in level ground. Like I said above I hung the ROPs on my 326 yesterday with it folded. About any equipment you can name is dangerous. Mandating across the board things that have to be done are not always the best thing for all concerned.
#28
jekjr
If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.
Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.
jekjr
jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)
If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.
Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.
#29
Ric
I agree the same rules should apply to the homeowners and your assumption is most likely right the majority of accidents, injuries and deaths are on the side of the homeowner and is caused by not reading the manuals from the manufacturer and not knowing how to properly operate the equipment they purchase.
Ric
If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.
Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.
I agree the same rules should apply to the homeowners and your assumption is most likely right the majority of accidents, injuries and deaths are on the side of the homeowner and is caused by not reading the manuals from the manufacturer and not knowing how to properly operate the equipment they purchase.
#30
djdicetn
jekjr,
I started the other thread but not this poll and the OP of this poll did NOT specifically target "commercial operators". Initially, I did in my thread, because the news story that got me thinking about this was indeed a commercial operator fatality. To an extent I agree with you(in regards to the manufacturers and dealers providing homeowners the necessary safety equpment and operating guidlines when a homeowner insists they want a "Commercial ZTR) that the same rule should apply across the board. But if I buy a Commercial ZTR(which I did), the manufacturer provides the ROPS and seat belt and the selling dealer ensures that I have been "educated" to the dangers and how to properly use the safety equipment that pretty well makes my wife only able to sue me if I kill myself on it and did not heed the advice I received when I bought it. On the other hand, a commercial operator brings a second party(the homeowner) into the mix and indeed the operators wife could include that homeowner into a lawsuit for requiring the ZTR operatior to mow that great big steep ditch. Aren't those two scenarios a little different???? I mean you do have a liability insurance policy for your business....right? If I don't have a life insurance policy(and don't really know if the insurance company would protest a death benefit payment for a ZTR accident) that's my bad. But if you destroy a customer's property or there is a operator casualty on a customer's property that's your bad(or liability).....right? Really, couldn't some legislation/restriction/enforcement in the long haul would actually "protect" the Lawn Care Maintenance business owner....not "punish him". Just trying to sort out all of the underlying what if's and pros/cons to a sensitive topic.
djdicetn
If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.
Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.
jekjr,
I started the other thread but not this poll and the OP of this poll did NOT specifically target "commercial operators". Initially, I did in my thread, because the news story that got me thinking about this was indeed a commercial operator fatality. To an extent I agree with you(in regards to the manufacturers and dealers providing homeowners the necessary safety equpment and operating guidlines when a homeowner insists they want a "Commercial ZTR) that the same rule should apply across the board. But if I buy a Commercial ZTR(which I did), the manufacturer provides the ROPS and seat belt and the selling dealer ensures that I have been "educated" to the dangers and how to properly use the safety equipment that pretty well makes my wife only able to sue me if I kill myself on it and did not heed the advice I received when I bought it. On the other hand, a commercial operator brings a second party(the homeowner) into the mix and indeed the operators wife could include that homeowner into a lawsuit for requiring the ZTR operatior to mow that great big steep ditch. Aren't those two scenarios a little different???? I mean you do have a liability insurance policy for your business....right? If I don't have a life insurance policy(and don't really know if the insurance company would protest a death benefit payment for a ZTR accident) that's my bad. But if you destroy a customer's property or there is a operator casualty on a customer's property that's your bad(or liability).....right? Really, couldn't some legislation/restriction/enforcement in the long haul would actually "protect" the Lawn Care Maintenance business owner....not "punish him". Just trying to sort out all of the underlying what if's and pros/cons to a sensitive topic.
#31
jekjr
Like I have said in several places. Please find something else to start a grass roots movement on. We do not need any new laws concerning anything. There are more than enough laws on the books in this country to more than take care of any situation you might encounter. We need no more rules, regulations, fees, taxes, or licenses, or anything else concerning anything to do with any type of business on this country. We do not need any people trying to justify us needing anymore nor openly discussing them where some politician can over hear and come up with an idea for any more.
jekjr
jekjr,
I started the other thread but not this poll and the OP of this poll did NOT specifically target "commercial operators". Initially, I did in my thread, because the news story that got me thinking about this was indeed a commercial operator fatality. To an extent I agree with you(in regards to the manufacturers and dealers providing homeowners the necessary safety equpment and operating guidlines when a homeowner insists they want a "Commercial ZTR) that the same rule should apply across the board. But if I buy a Commercial ZTR(which I did), the manufacturer provides the ROPS and seat belt and the selling dealer ensures that I have been "educated" to the dangers and how to properly use the safety equipment that pretty well makes my wife only able to sue me if I kill myself on it and did not heed the advice I received when I bought it. On the other hand, a commercial operator brings a second party(the homeowner) into the mix and indeed the operators wife could include that homeowner into a lawsuit for requiring the ZTR operatior to mow that great big steep ditch. Aren't those two scenarios a little different???? I mean you do have a liability insurance policy for your business....right? If I don't have a life insurance policy(and don't really know if the insurance company would protest a death benefit payment for a ZTR accident) that's my bad. But if you destroy a customer's property or there is a operator casualty on a customer's property that's your bad(or liability).....right? Really, couldn't some legislation/restriction/enforcement in the long haul would actually "protect" the Lawn Care Maintenance business owner....not "punish him". Just trying to sort out all of the underlying what if's and pros/cons to a sensitive topic.
Like I have said in several places. Please find something else to start a grass roots movement on. We do not need any new laws concerning anything. There are more than enough laws on the books in this country to more than take care of any situation you might encounter. We need no more rules, regulations, fees, taxes, or licenses, or anything else concerning anything to do with any type of business on this country. We do not need any people trying to justify us needing anymore nor openly discussing them where some politician can over hear and come up with an idea for any more.
#32
X-man
X-man
Damn.:confused2:
Drink, anyone?:drink:
Drink, anyone?:drink:
#33
wjjones
I really dont see why they would want to especially if its the fold back/ break away style? I think they look better with them on there too, and might save your life sometime as well.
wjjones
I voted yes, specifically on the premise of "liability" and "protective" measures that I feel are in the best interest of a professional lawn care maintenance worker, their family, the owner/license holder(if applicable) and would include mandantory wearing of the seat belt. Now do I want a police officer to observe me(or you) mowing our personal property without the same enforcement.....that's a hard one(I am answerable only to myself and family....NOT a paying customer that my wife could sue, along with my boss). And, I believe a dealership(and manufacturer) has some accountability if a ZTR is "sold as" a commercial ZTR(or in the case of my Gravely has "Commercial" plastered across the front of it). I understand the ramifications(cost-wise for equipment) this puts on start-up commercial individuals, but like most enforceable "laws" many end up as being forced to comply with that business' regulations(debateably whether in their best interest). They already have to adhere to DOT regulations regarding the trailering requirements of their equipment(mandantory tie-down, GVWR specs of trailer, etc.). Many will despise me for even bringing this up(yes, I am the OP of the thread mentioned by X-man) but IMHO this is the "elephant in the room" to quote therapy notations of a problem being "ignored" rather than confronted that forums like this just do NOT want to talk about. I knew it would stir up a hornet's nest.....Sorry:0(
I really dont see why they would want to especially if its the fold back/ break away style? I think they look better with them on there too, and might save your life sometime as well.
#34
Parkmower
I agree. I think you guys need bigger lawns. So you spend more time on the mower seat and less time in the recliner being a armchair lawmaker.
Parkmower
Like I have said in several places. Please find something else to start a grass roots movement on. We do not need any new laws concerning anything. There are more than enough laws on the books in this country to more than take care of any situation you might encounter. We need no more rules, regulations, fees, taxes, or licenses, or anything else concerning anything to do with any type of business on this country. We do not need any people trying to justify us needing anymore nor openly discussing them where some politician can over hear and come up with an idea for any more.
I agree. I think you guys need bigger lawns. So you spend more time on the mower seat and less time in the recliner being a armchair lawmaker.
#35
djdicetn
Parkmower,
As long as you, user jekjr and others that think I was so out of line to start the thread that prompted this poll(yeah, I realize the "No" votes outnumber the "Yes" votes 17 to 1) could(with a clear consciense) say everything you have responded with on these forums directly to the widow of the Middle TN lawn maintenance operator that died recently when his JD ZTR turned over on him; then I will ask the moderator to delete my original thread(see below).
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/comme...professional-lawn-maintenance-businesses.html
djdicetn
I agree. I think you guys need bigger lawns. So you spend more time on the mower seat and less time in the recliner being a armchair lawmaker.
Parkmower,
As long as you, user jekjr and others that think I was so out of line to start the thread that prompted this poll(yeah, I realize the "No" votes outnumber the "Yes" votes 17 to 1) could(with a clear consciense) say everything you have responded with on these forums directly to the widow of the Middle TN lawn maintenance operator that died recently when his JD ZTR turned over on him; then I will ask the moderator to delete my original thread(see below).
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/comme...professional-lawn-maintenance-businesses.html
#36
jekjr
I run a zero turn several days a week. I put them in some god awful places at times. I hope and pray that I never get hurt or killed on one nor hurt nor kill anybody else. However if I do get hurt or killed on one tomorrow, I hope nobody reads about it and tries to get another law passed concerning them or anything else. We have more than enough laws already.
jekjr
Parkmower,
As long as you, user jekjr and others that think I was so out of line to start the thread that prompted this poll(yeah, I realize the "No" votes outnumber the "Yes" votes 17 to 1) could(with a clear consciense) say everything you have responded with on these forums directly to the widow of the Middle TN lawn maintenance operator that died recently when his JD ZTR turned over on him; then I will ask the moderator to delete my original thread(see below).
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/comme...professional-lawn-maintenance-businesses.html
I run a zero turn several days a week. I put them in some god awful places at times. I hope and pray that I never get hurt or killed on one nor hurt nor kill anybody else. However if I do get hurt or killed on one tomorrow, I hope nobody reads about it and tries to get another law passed concerning them or anything else. We have more than enough laws already.
#37
djdicetn
djdicetn
Well I guess all of the hoopla that the OP that started this poll based upon my "Laws Governing Professional Lawn Maintenance Businesses" thread, has somewhat settled down and I have pretty well been convinced that no laws or restrictions would be beneficial in "saving lives". However, as noted below with the picture file I copied from the Toro site I can only recommend to any users that read(or have previously commented in) this thread....to be safe whenever mowing on their ZTR:0)
P.S.
Click on the attached thumbnail for the full effect:0)
P.S.
Click on the attached thumbnail for the full effect:0)
Attachments
#38
X-man
Glad to see all the BS has cooled off in my thread:tongue:
Long story short, have your ROPS up when you're on hilly land. If you only mow on flat land then what's the point?
X-man
Well I guess all of the hoopla that the OP that started this poll based upon my "Laws Governing Professional Lawn Maintenance Businesses" thread, has somewhat settled down and I have pretty well been convinced that no laws or restrictions would be beneficial in "saving lives". However, as noted below with the picture file I copied from the Toro site I can only recommend to any users that read(or have previously commented in) this thread....to be safe whenever mowing on their ZTR:0)
P.S.
Click on the attached thumbnail for the full effect:0)
Glad to see all the BS has cooled off in my thread:tongue:
Long story short, have your ROPS up when you're on hilly land. If you only mow on flat land then what's the point?
#39
djdicetn
Well, I guess to sum up your poll...the Yes vote(me) and the No votes were similar to the Romney versus Obama election:0)
I lost by a landslide!!!!
P.S.
Hey.....BTW, you really don't have to "own a ZTR" to vote...right???? So it sounds like you could have made it Yes(2) to No(19).....but still a landslide:0)
djdicetn
Glad to see all the BS has cooled off in my thread:tongue:
Long story short, have your ROPS up when you're on hilly land. If you only mow on flat land then what's the point?
Well, I guess to sum up your poll...the Yes vote(me) and the No votes were similar to the Romney versus Obama election:0)
I lost by a landslide!!!!
P.S.
Hey.....BTW, you really don't have to "own a ZTR" to vote...right???? So it sounds like you could have made it Yes(2) to No(19).....but still a landslide:0)
#40
X-man
Ehh, don't get me started with politics. That last election pissed me right off.
I voted, and I don't own a ZTR, just my '97 Craftsman:tongue:
X-man
Well, I guess to sum up your poll...the Yes vote(me) and the No votes were similar to the Romney versus Obama election:0)
I lost by a landslide!!!!
P.S.
Hey.....BTW, you really don't have to "own a ZTR" to vote...right???? So it sounds like you could have made it Yes(2) to No(19).....but still a landslide:0)
Ehh, don't get me started with politics. That last election pissed me right off.
I voted, and I don't own a ZTR, just my '97 Craftsman:tongue:
#42
djdicetn
Yeah, I agree politics is something we really don't need to start up threads about on these forums, sorry for the poor choice of analogies(I feel the same way you do!). But I really thought I could coerce another yes vote though, especially if you happened to be on hilly land when you voted:0)
djdicetn
Ehh, don't get me started with politics. That last election pissed me right off.
I voted, and I don't own a ZTR, just my '97 Craftsman:tongue:
Yeah, I agree politics is something we really don't need to start up threads about on these forums, sorry for the poor choice of analogies(I feel the same way you do!). But I really thought I could coerce another yes vote though, especially if you happened to be on hilly land when you voted:0)
#43
djdicetn
OK, did you feel sorry for me and vote Yes?????? Someone did since I see it is now Yes=2 and No=19. It's nice to know there are sympathetic users on these forums:0)
djdicetn
At least you voted many did not:thumbdown:
OK, did you feel sorry for me and vote Yes?????? Someone did since I see it is now Yes=2 and No=19. It's nice to know there are sympathetic users on these forums:0)
#44
X-man
I only mow in my trailer park. The only hill I deal with is at the compost pile I use.
X-man
Yeah, I agree politics is something we really don't need to start up threads about on these forums, sorry for the poor choice of analogies(I feel the same way you do!). But I really thought I could coerce another yes vote though, especially if you happened to be on hilly land when you voted:0)
I only mow in my trailer park. The only hill I deal with is at the compost pile I use.
#45
reynoldston
reynoldston
I didn't even read all the post because this is a stupid question. Too many laws now and who in the world is going to ticked you when you are mowing on privet land. If you are dumb enough you should be able to mow with just a engine and a mower blade and not get a ticket. If a customer comes to me and wants safety switches or anything removed I will do it for them. If you want or don't want it should be your business not the laws. My vote is a big no.
#47
M
Moto110ky
M
Moto110ky
:thumbdown: Leave it to the insurance companys to fight this one out, lord knows with enough talk they will up their rates to accomodate this. Bottom line is use common sense!!!!
#48
X-man
X-man
I saw this guy mowing at a high school with a ZTR today. He was mowing sideways on a hill with his ROPS folded down. Kinda pissed me off a little.
#49
Carscw
I don't mow up and down it just does not feel safe when the front wheels come off the ground.
(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))
Carscw
I saw this guy mowing at a high school with a ZTR today. He was mowing sideways on a hill with his ROPS folded down. Kinda pissed me off a little.
I don't mow up and down it just does not feel safe when the front wheels come off the ground.
(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))
#50
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
Simple answer NO. We don't enforce laws now why add another silly one. What's next airbags on mowers. Commercial guys are required to carry insurance their insurance provider can penalize them if need be. You get higher premiums , not some local yocal ticketing you.
That's absurd on many levels. Homeowners also carry home insurance if there was any kind of problem then trust me you would be answering that question on their forms. ZTR's especially down south where hills are like bigfoot sitings why would you need one. Up here in the NE you have some properties that need them. -personal choice -
Let insurance carriers work it out. Not politicians. Take cell phone laws , ah nevermind. I'll just get carried away. :smile:
That's absurd on many levels. Homeowners also carry home insurance if there was any kind of problem then trust me you would be answering that question on their forms. ZTR's especially down south where hills are like bigfoot sitings why would you need one. Up here in the NE you have some properties that need them. -personal choice -
Let insurance carriers work it out. Not politicians. Take cell phone laws , ah nevermind. I'll just get carried away. :smile:
#51
AmericanTurf
AmericanTurf
Car dork. I don't need or take meds. I would however be in jail I'd you were to stand in front of me. You say I need meds just because I stated a fact that you sissy libs pass sissy laws. It's a fact jack. So piss off sissy boy. You needs meds for being a sissy American line real that will die when civil war breaks out.
#53
M
Muhammad
M
Muhammad
A number of posts have been removed from this thread because they contained excessive profanity and inappropriate content. Please keep the discussion civil and we won't have to remove any posts. If it continues the thread will have to be locked. :thumbdown:
Thanks...
Thanks...
#54
X-man
X-man
Glad to see that AmericanSchmuck is banned. It's about time.
#55
TaskForceLawnCare
TaskForceLawnCare
It is completely absurd, we leave the ROPS folded. Dixie Chopper doesn't have a discharge chute, i can close the chute i guess. No worries about not hiring me you aren't really a candidate for professional lawn care anyway you have your "commercial mower".
We've decided to change our uniform to bubble wrap with football helmets though just to stay ahead of Johnny law.
We've decided to change our uniform to bubble wrap with football helmets though just to stay ahead of Johnny law.
#56
exotion
Steel toe boots. Jeans and chaps. Long sleeve tee with a kevlar vest. Elbow pads. Leather gloves.motor cycle helmet. I miss anything?
exotion
It is completely absurd, we leave the ROPS folded. Dixie Chopper doesn't have a discharge chute, i can close the chute i guess. No worries about not hiring me you aren't really a candidate for professional lawn care anyway you have your "commercial mower".
We've decided to change our uniform to bubble wrap with football helmets though just to stay ahead of Johnny law.
Steel toe boots. Jeans and chaps. Long sleeve tee with a kevlar vest. Elbow pads. Leather gloves.motor cycle helmet. I miss anything?
#57
reynoldston
make that a full face racing helmet.
reynoldston
Steel toe boots. Jeans and chaps. Long sleeve tee with a kevlar vest. Elbow pads. Leather gloves.motor cycle helmet. I miss anything?
make that a full face racing helmet.
#58
TaskForceLawnCare
TaskForceLawnCare
I can't wear a full face helmet I just want to keep trying to lick the face shield. Since we're all to dumb to not roll a 1,500 machine with a center of gravity 4"s off the ground on all those 60 degree hills we mow 8-10 hours a day none stop.
Ok i shouldn't talk like that its immature but lets face it if we all followed the OSHA dictionary to the "T" and had federal laws for seat belts, ROPS, and discharge chutes, ect. We'd be breaking some kind of law just getting out of bed.
Instead of being a hater as the kids say these days look at the positive. We are all for the most part being as safe as we can out there. We are also beautifying neighborhoods across America one lawn at a time. So, don't be mad because your neighbor hired a professional and their yard looks better, and it gets done in a tenth the time it takes you to do yours. Every minute in my day equals money back into small business's. not to mention someone who isn't jobless occupying Wall Street living off the hard working tax payers dollar, because they were brought up thinking everybody owes them something. You live under whatever pretense you want but stop imposing misguided judgmental laws on everyone else when you have no clue what we go through everyday to make an honest buck the American way.
V/R
American Combat Veteran
P.S. Your welcome for your rights, safety and freedoms
Ok i shouldn't talk like that its immature but lets face it if we all followed the OSHA dictionary to the "T" and had federal laws for seat belts, ROPS, and discharge chutes, ect. We'd be breaking some kind of law just getting out of bed.
Instead of being a hater as the kids say these days look at the positive. We are all for the most part being as safe as we can out there. We are also beautifying neighborhoods across America one lawn at a time. So, don't be mad because your neighbor hired a professional and their yard looks better, and it gets done in a tenth the time it takes you to do yours. Every minute in my day equals money back into small business's. not to mention someone who isn't jobless occupying Wall Street living off the hard working tax payers dollar, because they were brought up thinking everybody owes them something. You live under whatever pretense you want but stop imposing misguided judgmental laws on everyone else when you have no clue what we go through everyday to make an honest buck the American way.
V/R
American Combat Veteran
P.S. Your welcome for your rights, safety and freedoms
#59
T
Tom59
Well said , and thanks for serving!
Like I wrote , let homeowners insurances decide obviously its not an issue or they would hit you with the bill.
My rops on my big tractor makes perfect sense high center of gravity digging on slopes gets tricky. But, a low slung ZTR no. They put them on to cover themselves from lawyers. My homeowners insurance never asks FWIW. So obviously its not much of an issue.
Most lawn services carry insurances , I'd imagine ....
Don't forget the flame retardant suit. Halo systems and oxygen mask.
T
Tom59
I can't wear a full face helmet I just want to keep trying to lick the face shield. Since we're all to dumb to not roll a 1,500 machine with a center of gravity 4"s off the ground on all those 60 degree hills we mow 8-10 hours a day none stop.
Ok i shouldn't talk like that its immature but lets face it if we all followed the OSHA dictionary to the "T" and had federal laws for seat belts, ROPS, and discharge chutes, ect. We'd be breaking some kind of law just getting out of bed.
Instead of being a hater as the kids say these days look at the positive. We are all for the most part being as safe as we can out there. We are also beautifying neighborhoods across America one lawn at a time. So, don't be mad because your neighbor hired a professional and their yard looks better, and it gets done in a tenth the time it takes you to do yours. Every minute in my day equals money back into small business's. not to mention someone who isn't jobless occupying Wall Street living off the hard working tax payers dollar, because they were brought up thinking everybody owes them something. You live under whatever pretense you want but stop imposing misguided judgmental laws on everyone else when you have no clue what we go through everyday to make an honest buck the American way.
V/R
American Combat Veteran
P.S. Your welcome for your rights, safety and freedoms
Well said , and thanks for serving!
Like I wrote , let homeowners insurances decide obviously its not an issue or they would hit you with the bill.
My rops on my big tractor makes perfect sense high center of gravity digging on slopes gets tricky. But, a low slung ZTR no. They put them on to cover themselves from lawyers. My homeowners insurance never asks FWIW. So obviously its not much of an issue.
Most lawn services carry insurances , I'd imagine ....
Don't forget the flame retardant suit. Halo systems and oxygen mask.
#60
exotion
Smart lawn services are insured... I am insured minimally but then again I don't use big equipment so my worst thing is running over a dog or putting a rock through a window
exotion
Well said , and thanks for serving!
Like I wrote , let homeowners insurances decide obviously its not an issue or they would hit you with the bill.
My rops on my big tractor makes perfect sense high center of gravity digging on slopes gets tricky. But, a low slung ZTR no. They put them on to cover themselves from lawyers. My homeowners insurance never asks FWIW. So obviously its not much of an issue.
Most lawn services carry insurances , I'd imagine ....
Don't forget the flame retardant suit. Halo systems and oxygen mask.
Smart lawn services are insured... I am insured minimally but then again I don't use big equipment so my worst thing is running over a dog or putting a rock through a window
#61
jekjr
jekjr
We stop mowing side ways when we can't get traction enough to hold it straight without sliding sideways and tearing up the grass. Then we mow up and down. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.I saw this guy mowing at a high school with a ZTR today. He was mowing sideways on a hill with his ROPS folded down. Kinda pissed me off a little.
#62
M
man00
Scag offers users special discount price on ROPS if their mower did not come with them...Think it is 189.00, maybe others should do the same.
M
man00
Saw a thread that is FULL of nasty rage. I don't have much of an opinion because I do not own a ZTR.
Do you think that ZTR owners should be ticketed if the ROPS bar is missing?
Scag offers users special discount price on ROPS if their mower did not come with them...Think it is 189.00, maybe others should do the same.
#63
M
mechanic
Good point. I was mowing with an eXmark ZTR with the bar up and didn't see and overhead obstacle as I was watching to cutting and where the mower was going. The the bar hit the obstruction it almost turned me over backwards before I realized what was happening and stopped. When I did stop the front wheels of the mower were about 5 feet off the ground. Thankfully I simply backed the mower up and went around the obstruction.
I said no. If a person makes the personal decision to not have one, that is his choice.
M
mechanic
I voted NO. I don't have a ZTR but personally I think that not all lawns would need the use of a ROPS bar. I think people should be notified that the use of the ROPS is recommended, but I think you should be able to do what you want, because if you have a super-flat yard but have low tree branches, the ROPS would hit the branches and cause a danger if you don't want to trim them!
Good point. I was mowing with an eXmark ZTR with the bar up and didn't see and overhead obstacle as I was watching to cutting and where the mower was going. The the bar hit the obstruction it almost turned me over backwards before I realized what was happening and stopped. When I did stop the front wheels of the mower were about 5 feet off the ground. Thankfully I simply backed the mower up and went around the obstruction.
I said no. If a person makes the personal decision to not have one, that is his choice.
#64
djdicetn
mechanic,
I am responsible for this controversial poll because I started a regular thread last summer about making ROPS a "legal requirement" for "Commercial" lawn maintenance companies ONLY. The other thread got real heated by those that were offended regarding their "personal use" of a ZTR and their freedom of choice. I started that original thread right after seeing a story on our local news about a professional that was killed when his John Deere ZTR rolled over on him and crushed him to death. He had a wife and 3 kids and was just trying to "make a living". The news story indicated that the ROPS had been removed from the Commercial ZTR and most likely would have saved him if it had not been(and he had been wearing the lap belt). You sound like you had a pretty close call to a rollover as well. Were you wearing your lap belt?? Do you agree that should the ZTR have come all the way over and flipped that you would have been thankful it had a ROPS and lap belt??? What do you think about the potential for a gigantic wrongful death lawsuit by a deceased driver's family or customer homeowner against the company he works for???? Without very good insurance(or an employee's signed liability waiver before being hired) seems to me it could put a lawn maintenance company out of business and bankrupt the owner. Thoughts????
djdicetn
Good point. I was mowing with an eXmark ZTR with the bar up and didn't see and overhead obstacle as I was watching to cutting and where the mower was going. The the bar hit the obstruction it almost turned me over backwards before I realized what was happening and stopped. When I did stop the front wheels of the mower were about 5 feet off the ground. Thankfully I simply backed the mower up and went around the obstruction.
I said no. If a person makes the personal decision to not have one, that is his choice.
mechanic,
I am responsible for this controversial poll because I started a regular thread last summer about making ROPS a "legal requirement" for "Commercial" lawn maintenance companies ONLY. The other thread got real heated by those that were offended regarding their "personal use" of a ZTR and their freedom of choice. I started that original thread right after seeing a story on our local news about a professional that was killed when his John Deere ZTR rolled over on him and crushed him to death. He had a wife and 3 kids and was just trying to "make a living". The news story indicated that the ROPS had been removed from the Commercial ZTR and most likely would have saved him if it had not been(and he had been wearing the lap belt). You sound like you had a pretty close call to a rollover as well. Were you wearing your lap belt?? Do you agree that should the ZTR have come all the way over and flipped that you would have been thankful it had a ROPS and lap belt??? What do you think about the potential for a gigantic wrongful death lawsuit by a deceased driver's family or customer homeowner against the company he works for???? Without very good insurance(or an employee's signed liability waiver before being hired) seems to me it could put a lawn maintenance company out of business and bankrupt the owner. Thoughts????
#65
X-man
If I was the customer and had a lawn professional get killed on the job due to operator error, I don't even know what I would do. If the cause of his death was avoidable (which in most cases it is), I would probably do something along the lines of making sure they strictly enforce all safety protocols, especially after dealing with the loss of one of their own. People do learn from their mistakes. I personally wouldn't want one of my workers operating a ZTR on a steep hill with the damn ROPS folded down. In my trailer park, we use weed whackers to cut the grass on the steep parts of our compost hill/storage area. Not worth taking a chance.
I don't know what I would do if the death was unavoidable.
In a perfect world, I don't see why you would sue the entire company for his death (unless it was mechanical failure) as it was his choice to make a dull decision.
X-man
mechanic,
I am responsible for this controversial poll because I started a regular thread last summer about making ROPS a "legal requirement" for "Commercial" lawn maintenance companies ONLY. The other thread got real heated by those that were offended regarding their "personal use" of a ZTR and their freedom of choice. I started that original thread right after seeing a story on our local news about a professional that was killed when his John Deere ZTR rolled over on him and crushed him to death. He had a wife and 3 kids and was just trying to "make a living". The news story indicated that the ROPS had been removed from the Commercial ZTR and most likely would have saved him if it had not been(and he had been wearing the lap belt). You sound like you had a pretty close call to a rollover as well. Were you wearing your lap belt?? Do you agree that should the ZTR have come all the way over and flipped that you would have been thankful it had a ROPS and lap belt??? What do you think about the potential for a gigantic wrongful death lawsuit by a deceased driver's family or customer homeowner against the company he works for???? Without very good insurance(or an employee's signed liability waiver before being hired) seems to me it could put a lawn maintenance company out of business and bankrupt the owner. Thoughts????
If I was the customer and had a lawn professional get killed on the job due to operator error, I don't even know what I would do. If the cause of his death was avoidable (which in most cases it is), I would probably do something along the lines of making sure they strictly enforce all safety protocols, especially after dealing with the loss of one of their own. People do learn from their mistakes. I personally wouldn't want one of my workers operating a ZTR on a steep hill with the damn ROPS folded down. In my trailer park, we use weed whackers to cut the grass on the steep parts of our compost hill/storage area. Not worth taking a chance.
I don't know what I would do if the death was unavoidable.
In a perfect world, I don't see why you would sue the entire company for his death (unless it was mechanical failure) as it was his choice to make a dull decision.
#66
jekjr
jekjr
I would like to see where this guy put the zero turn that rolled it. We have had some in some god awful places and to flip one would be incredible. I am sure that it happens. Every place I have ever seen them they just slide to the bottom. I have honestly come closer to flopping mine with the ROPS up hitting something than on a hillside.
My 326 weighs about 1300#'s and the center of gravity is right on the ground. Being belted to the thing with a lap belt and a ROPS would be scarey to me as well because just flipping the thing would more than likely cause something it turned over on to come on on the operator.
The ROPS on a zero turn makes them unstable because of hitting obstructions.
My 326 weighs about 1300#'s and the center of gravity is right on the ground. Being belted to the thing with a lap belt and a ROPS would be scarey to me as well because just flipping the thing would more than likely cause something it turned over on to come on on the operator.
The ROPS on a zero turn makes them unstable because of hitting obstructions.
#67
exotion
exotion
User reaction makes a big difference. Hit a tree branch start flipping panic and drive forward and get enough momentum. Or putting it where it shouldn't go ....
#68
Ric
I'm like you, I would like to see where this guy put the zero turn that rolled it. I think something or a slope would have to be extremely steep to roll a ZTR. Maybe if you were using one of those 34" jobs it may be possible but when your talking say a 48" and up it's going to be hard to roll one of those.
Ric
I would like to see where this guy put the zero turn that rolled it. We have had some in some god awful places and to flip one would be incredible. I am sure that it happens. Every place I have ever seen them they just slide to the bottom. I have honestly come closer to flopping mine with the ROPS up hitting something than on a hillside.
My 326 weighs about 1300#'s and the center of gravity is right on the ground. Being belted to the thing with a lap belt and a ROPS would be scarey to me as well because just flipping the thing would more than likely cause something it turned over on to come on on the operator.
The ROPS on a zero turn makes them unstable because of hitting obstructions.
I'm like you, I would like to see where this guy put the zero turn that rolled it. I think something or a slope would have to be extremely steep to roll a ZTR. Maybe if you were using one of those 34" jobs it may be possible but when your talking say a 48" and up it's going to be hard to roll one of those.
#69
jekjr
You already have the forward momentum. We run ours in the folded position and still have them hit lower limbs many times. Panic or no panic many times they hang and it. What usually happens is it will rear till the rear skid plate hits the ground. Then it either stops or breaks the limb off.
jekjr
User reaction makes a big difference. Hit a tree branch start flipping panic and drive forward and get enough momentum. Or putting it where it shouldn't go ....
You already have the forward momentum. We run ours in the folded position and still have them hit lower limbs many times. Panic or no panic many times they hang and it. What usually happens is it will rear till the rear skid plate hits the ground. Then it either stops or breaks the limb off.
#70
BHLC
BHLC
No, we already live in a country with too many silly laws and that would just be another! Most ROPS fold anyway and most stay folded so why not pull them off.
#71
jekjr
jekjr
This is an old thread now. I see that there have been 42 no and 3 yes. I would be curious to know if the three that voted yes run zero turns commercially.
#72
djdicetn
I am one of the yes votes. No, I do not mow commercially. The reason I voted yes is clearly explained in Post#64. If I owned a lawn care business I would(and would require all of my workers to) use the ROPS for the reason(s) I stated earlier.
djdicetn
This is an old thread now. I see that there have been 42 no and 3 yes. I would be curious to know if the three that voted yes run zero turns commercially.
I am one of the yes votes. No, I do not mow commercially. The reason I voted yes is clearly explained in Post#64. If I owned a lawn care business I would(and would require all of my workers to) use the ROPS for the reason(s) I stated earlier.
#73
djdicetn
Trick question(s) for all of the "NO" voters....why did ZTR manufacturers decide to put ROPS on a Commercial/Industrial grade ZTR?????? What do the manufacturers recommend(and why)?
Just trying to get everyone riled up again:0)
NOT
djdicetn
I would like to see where this guy put the zero turn that rolled it. We have had some in some god awful places and to flip one would be incredible. I am sure that it happens. Every place I have ever seen them they just slide to the bottom. I have honestly come closer to flopping mine with the ROPS up hitting something than on a hillside.
My 326 weighs about 1300#'s and the center of gravity is right on the ground. Being belted to the thing with a lap belt and a ROPS would be scarey to me as well because just flipping the thing would more than likely cause something it turned over on to come on on the operator.
The ROPS on a zero turn makes them unstable because of hitting obstructions.
Trick question(s) for all of the "NO" voters....why did ZTR manufacturers decide to put ROPS on a Commercial/Industrial grade ZTR?????? What do the manufacturers recommend(and why)?
Just trying to get everyone riled up again:0)
NOT
#74
T
Tom59
It was a government mandate ......iirc. Manufacturers only do things if they are threatened somehow.
ROPS legislation was passed in 1975, with OSHA requiring that all tractors manufactured from October 25, 1976 onwards be equipped with ROPS.[4] In 1985, the development of a new voluntary safety standard by the American Society of Agricultural Engineers (S318.10) encouraged an initiative by American tractor manufacturers to equip new tractors over 20 horsepower with ROPS.[5][6] Since then, additional efforts have been made to help increase the adoption of ROPS among tractor owners who are still not using it. In 1993, the five largest North American tractor manufacturers started an incentive program offering ROPS retrofit kits to local dealers to sell to tractor producers, without additional cost.[7] The response by tractor owners to this retrofitting initiative was limited.[3]
T
Tom59
Trick question(s) for all of the "NO" voters....why did ZTR manufacturers decide to put ROPS on a Commercial/Industrial grade ZTR?????? What do the manufacturers recommend(and why)?
Just trying to get everyone riled up again:0)
NOT
It was a government mandate ......iirc. Manufacturers only do things if they are threatened somehow.
ROPS legislation was passed in 1975, with OSHA requiring that all tractors manufactured from October 25, 1976 onwards be equipped with ROPS.[4] In 1985, the development of a new voluntary safety standard by the American Society of Agricultural Engineers (S318.10) encouraged an initiative by American tractor manufacturers to equip new tractors over 20 horsepower with ROPS.[5][6] Since then, additional efforts have been made to help increase the adoption of ROPS among tractor owners who are still not using it. In 1993, the five largest North American tractor manufacturers started an incentive program offering ROPS retrofit kits to local dealers to sell to tractor producers, without additional cost.[7] The response by tractor owners to this retrofitting initiative was limited.[3]
#75
T
Tom59
I just noticed - IN YOUR picture - your's is down , can you please send the 2500.00 fine to my house.:laughing:
T
Tom59
Trick question(s) for all of the "NO" voters....why did ZTR manufacturers decide to put ROPS on a Commercial/Industrial grade ZTR?????? What do the manufacturers recommend(and why)?
Just trying to get everyone riled up again:0)
NOT
I just noticed - IN YOUR picture - your's is down , can you please send the 2500.00 fine to my house.:laughing:
#76
djdicetn
I never updated my avatar picture(taken day of delivery). I have since installed a bimini sunshade, so lowering the ROPS is no longer an option. Besides...I re-emphasize....IMHO, "consumers" should not be "required" to have an active ROPS, only someone being paid for mowing with a ZTR. I've not "digested" the detailed information you provided regarding the OSHA mandate, but it confirmed what I kinda assumed.
Since it does appear I am guilty of a "double standard" I will try to find a more recent picture to post to this reply:0)
djdicetn
I just noticed - IN YOUR picture - your's is down , can you please send the 2500.00 fine to my house.:laughing:
I never updated my avatar picture(taken day of delivery). I have since installed a bimini sunshade, so lowering the ROPS is no longer an option. Besides...I re-emphasize....IMHO, "consumers" should not be "required" to have an active ROPS, only someone being paid for mowing with a ZTR. I've not "digested" the detailed information you provided regarding the OSHA mandate, but it confirmed what I kinda assumed.
Since it does appear I am guilty of a "double standard" I will try to find a more recent picture to post to this reply:0)
Attachments
#77
Carscw
Carscw
Next will come a full cage and 5 point racing belts
#78
A_tank96
I believe if they roll the machine and hurt themselves or somebody else, They don't know how to use the machine, or they are pushing it to hard, and that is their own fault.
Aaron
A_tank96
Next will come a full cage and 5 point racing belts
I believe if they roll the machine and hurt themselves or somebody else, They don't know how to use the machine, or they are pushing it to hard, and that is their own fault.
Aaron
#79
Carscw
I agree 100%
Carscw
I believe if they roll the machine and hurt themselves or somebody else, They don't know how to use the machine, or they are pushing it to hard, and that is their own fault. Aaron
I agree 100%
#80
Ric
Pardon me but what does all this government mandate stuff have to do with the subject or what equipment were using??
Ric
It was a government mandate ......iirc. Manufacturers only do things if they are threatened somehow.
ROPS legislation was passed in 1975, with OSHA requiring that all tractors manufactured from October 25, 1976 onwards be equipped with ROPS.[4] In 1985, the development of a new voluntary safety standard by the American Society of Agricultural Engineers (S318.10) encouraged an initiative by American tractor manufacturers to equip new tractors over 20 horsepower with ROPS.[5][6] Since then, additional efforts have been made to help increase the adoption of ROPS among tractor owners who are still not using it. In 1993, the five largest North American tractor manufacturers started an incentive program offering ROPS retrofit kits to local dealers to sell to tractor producers, without additional cost.[7] The response by tractor owners to this retrofitting initiative was limited.[3]
Pardon me but what does all this government mandate stuff have to do with the subject or what equipment were using??
#81
Ric
I don't believe there is anything to digest about that OSHA mandate, it has nothing to do with any equipment we use mowing lawns being paid or not. It doesn't confirm anything that I can see.
Ric
I never updated my avatar picture(taken day of delivery). I have since installed a bimini sunshade, so lowering the ROPS is no longer an option. Besides...I re-emphasize....IMHO, "consumers" should not be "required" to have an active ROPS, only someone being paid for mowing with a ZTR. I've not "digested" the detailed information you provided regarding the OSHA mandate, but it confirmed what I kinda assumed.
Since it does appear I am guilty of a "double standard" I will try to find a more recent picture to post to this reply:0)
I don't believe there is anything to digest about that OSHA mandate, it has nothing to do with any equipment we use mowing lawns being paid or not. It doesn't confirm anything that I can see.
#82
jekjr
jekjr
We run two zero turns commercially right now. Earlier this week we cut 40 acres. Because of the number of trees on this property there is absolutely no way we could have cut this property with the ROPS up on our mowers.
A zero turn is far more dangerous with a ROP in the upright position than it is in the down position. I have come closer to turning mine over with the ROPS in the folded position even because of limbs than having it on a very steep slope.
As for the Government getting involved and passing a law. Every thing they get involved with is usually a mess.
Like most beuracratic mess some person who knows little if anything about it sets the standards and the laws are passed accordingly.
Those that don't run one commercially ought not have an say so anyway. It makes about as much sense as saying a person who is a home owner should not be allowed to own one period.
A zero turn is far more dangerous with a ROP in the upright position than it is in the down position. I have come closer to turning mine over with the ROPS in the folded position even because of limbs than having it on a very steep slope.
As for the Government getting involved and passing a law. Every thing they get involved with is usually a mess.
Like most beuracratic mess some person who knows little if anything about it sets the standards and the laws are passed accordingly.
Those that don't run one commercially ought not have an say so anyway. It makes about as much sense as saying a person who is a home owner should not be allowed to own one period.
#83
exotion
exotion
It comes down to personal preference. Some people like them some don't.
If I had employees running these machines I would make them use them unless there are over head obsticles. Because its not me and I don't trust other people. I would probably never run one with them up
If I had employees running these machines I would make them use them unless there are over head obsticles. Because its not me and I don't trust other people. I would probably never run one with them up
#84
jekjr
ROPS ON A zero turn are are more dangerous than running with out one. Running out in the real world that sun shade thingy would be gone in five minutes.
The problem with all of this is there are now so many rules and regulations in America that it is incredibly hard to do a job.
You guys that get to work in manicured yards in town and use small walk behinds or other types of mowers have a lot of things to deal with. Then there are those like myself that cut many times acres of grass. Many times there are many, many trees, many times the ground is rough, the slopes are steep. Safety is always something I stress for my helper and myself. However it gets to a point you do the job or go to the house and park the equipment or sell it.
jekjr
I am one of the yes votes. No, I do not mow commercially. The reason I voted yes is clearly explained in Post#64. If I owned a lawn care business I would(and would require all of my workers to) use the ROPS for the reason(s) I stated earlier.
ROPS ON A zero turn are are more dangerous than running with out one. Running out in the real world that sun shade thingy would be gone in five minutes.
The problem with all of this is there are now so many rules and regulations in America that it is incredibly hard to do a job.
You guys that get to work in manicured yards in town and use small walk behinds or other types of mowers have a lot of things to deal with. Then there are those like myself that cut many times acres of grass. Many times there are many, many trees, many times the ground is rough, the slopes are steep. Safety is always something I stress for my helper and myself. However it gets to a point you do the job or go to the house and park the equipment or sell it.
#85
T
Tom59
Man, have a sense of humor. :thumbsup: I think people should make their own decision again their insurance costs go up if they have accidents. Simple capitalism.
T
Tom59
I never updated my avatar picture(taken day of delivery). I have since installed a bimini sunshade, so lowering the ROPS is no longer an option. Besides...I re-emphasize....IMHO, "consumers" should not be "required" to have an active ROPS, only someone being paid for mowing with a ZTR. I've not "digested" the detailed information you provided regarding the OSHA mandate, but it confirmed what I kinda assumed.
Since it does appear I am guilty of a "double standard" I will try to find a more recent picture to post to this reply:0)
Man, have a sense of humor. :thumbsup: I think people should make their own decision again their insurance costs go up if they have accidents. Simple capitalism.
#86
T
Tom59
44 people are agreeing with you. I've almost flipped mine over it got hung up on a hanging garden I have. Scared the bezesus out of me. I have trouble mowing around my boat too , it hits. I also have a low overhang on one of my out buildings even though I'm VERY aware of these things I do forget. I get pine needles galore down my back from the cedar trees. Cannot imagine doing a hundred or so yards like my friends business.
I worked for him a few times to bail him out - I always unless doing severe inclines leave the rops down. On my big tractor it never goes down ever.
I also have a sunshade on it , but made the mounts so I can just take it off no tools.
They NEVER mention since ROPS were installed how many lives it saved. They just legislate this for lawyers and suits.
T
Tom59
ROPS ON A zero turn are are more dangerous than running with out one. Running out in the real world that sun shade thingy would be gone in five minutes.
The problem with all of this is there are now so many rules and regulations in America that it is incredibly hard to do a job.
You guys that get to work in manicured yards in town and use small walk behinds or other types of mowers have a lot of things to deal with. Then there are those like myself that cut many times acres of grass. Many times there are many, many trees, many times the ground is rough, the slopes are steep. Safety is always something I stress for my helper and myself. However it gets to a point you do the job or go to the house and park the equipment or sell it.
44 people are agreeing with you. I've almost flipped mine over it got hung up on a hanging garden I have. Scared the bezesus out of me. I have trouble mowing around my boat too , it hits. I also have a low overhang on one of my out buildings even though I'm VERY aware of these things I do forget. I get pine needles galore down my back from the cedar trees. Cannot imagine doing a hundred or so yards like my friends business.
I worked for him a few times to bail him out - I always unless doing severe inclines leave the rops down. On my big tractor it never goes down ever.
I also have a sunshade on it , but made the mounts so I can just take it off no tools.
They NEVER mention since ROPS were installed how many lives it saved. They just legislate this for lawyers and suits.
#87
Ric
Ric
Personally I think having or running with a ROPS should come down to How you work, Where you are working and What kind of job you're doing. The Rops wasn't originally intended for ZTR mowers or anything that we use in lawncare. They were used on heavy equipment used in agriculture and the construction industry. As far as I know there is no law that state anyone has to have a rops on a lawn mower it's totally up to the individual and what he wants to do.
#88
jekjr
I totally agree with you on having it up on the tractor. That is one of my cases in point as well. A tractor has a very much higher center of gravity. I have seen farm tractors turn over on almost level ground.
We run zero turns daily. I totally hope we do not flip one. I do realize that so many times we like most in the business put them in bad places that are at times dangerous. Safety should always be in the forefront of our minds when operating equipment. I agree that there is a place for ROPS. Requiring a commercial operator to use one on a zero turn or fining him for not doing so is ludicrous.
Normally all it takes is one idiot who has a passion for some ridicoulas law like that to gain the ear of the right lawyers who really don't know what a zero turn does and we have a new law that those of us who use them for a living have for to contend with.
Running with one not up on hillsides is possibly dangerous. I honestly think you would have to run one off the side of something to roll it. Running with one up where trees and other over head obstructions is more dangerous however because when one is operating on a questionable slope he normally is fully aware of what is happening. On the other hand he will be focusing on the ground where he is cutting and the overhead obstruction has him. Plus an overhead obstruction on any kind of slope which is not uncommon at all could be devastating.
jekjr
44 people are agreeing with you. I've almost flipped mine over it got hung up on a hanging garden I have. Scared the bezesus out of me. I have trouble mowing around my boat too , it hits. I also have a low overhang on one of my out buildings even though I'm VERY aware of these things I do forget. I get pine needles galore down my back from the cedar trees. Cannot imagine doing a hundred or so yards like my friends business. I worked for him a few times to bail him out - I always unless doing severe inclines leave the rops down. On my big tractor it never goes down ever. I also have a sunshade on it , but made the mounts so I can just take it off no tools. They NEVER mention since ROPS were installed how many lives it saved. They just legislate this for lawyers and suits.
I totally agree with you on having it up on the tractor. That is one of my cases in point as well. A tractor has a very much higher center of gravity. I have seen farm tractors turn over on almost level ground.
We run zero turns daily. I totally hope we do not flip one. I do realize that so many times we like most in the business put them in bad places that are at times dangerous. Safety should always be in the forefront of our minds when operating equipment. I agree that there is a place for ROPS. Requiring a commercial operator to use one on a zero turn or fining him for not doing so is ludicrous.
Normally all it takes is one idiot who has a passion for some ridicoulas law like that to gain the ear of the right lawyers who really don't know what a zero turn does and we have a new law that those of us who use them for a living have for to contend with.
Running with one not up on hillsides is possibly dangerous. I honestly think you would have to run one off the side of something to roll it. Running with one up where trees and other over head obstructions is more dangerous however because when one is operating on a questionable slope he normally is fully aware of what is happening. On the other hand he will be focusing on the ground where he is cutting and the overhead obstruction has him. Plus an overhead obstruction on any kind of slope which is not uncommon at all could be devastating.
#89
Nwatson99
Nwatson99
I do not mow commercially, but I own a commercial mower and I keep my trees cut to not hang up on my ROPS.
It is just my preference but I leave mine in the upper position due to if I ever lose it and got into the pond it might buy me enough time to un-click and get out before it drowns my butt.
Safety, Insurance, and liability wise yes they should be left up, but the decision falls to the operator. Now with that note if an operator is mowing a steep embankment sideways then yes they should have the intelligence to restore the ROPS up until finished, if they roll a commercial machine without the ROPS it is doubtful they will live so Safety First should be number 1.
It is just my preference but I leave mine in the upper position due to if I ever lose it and got into the pond it might buy me enough time to un-click and get out before it drowns my butt.
Safety, Insurance, and liability wise yes they should be left up, but the decision falls to the operator. Now with that note if an operator is mowing a steep embankment sideways then yes they should have the intelligence to restore the ROPS up until finished, if they roll a commercial machine without the ROPS it is doubtful they will live so Safety First should be number 1.
#90
exotion
exotion
If I ran a big zero with rops I would probably tell my customers that I need to trim there trees and it will cost $x.xx or I can't use the big machine and have to charge much more per cut to use the 21"
But that's me and I don't use a big machine
But that's me and I don't use a big machine
#91
jekjr
jekjr
That might work up there where you live. Down here in our part of the world it is very economically depressed. Some body else will cut it without cutting the limbs. If we cut 1/2 acre lots that might happen. Monday and Tuesday we cut 40 acres. This coming week we will cut a 7 acre property with many trees. We cut a lot of 1 acre or more. Many times we are cutting stuff that is borderline of ending to be bush hogged masthead of cut with a mower.......If I ran a big zero with rops I would probably tell my customers that I need to trim there trees and it will cost $x.xx or I can't use the big machine and have to charge much more per cut to use the 21"
But that's me and I don't use a big machine
#92
Carscw
City people don't understand what it's like to cut grass in the country.
I loose my hat 10 times a day on tree limbs
My wife has a few pics that you can just see my head popping up out of the grass/weeds. Got a call from a guy with 10 acres wanted it cut and looking good. I got there and it was 6 foot tall and full if Bradford pear trees. I told him he needs to find someone to cut rake and bale it.
Carscw
That might work up there where you live. Down here in our part of the world it is very economically depressed. Some body else will cut it without cutting the limbs. If we cut 1/2 acre lots that might happen. Monday and Tuesday we cut 40 acres. This coming week we will cut a 7 acre property with many trees. We cut a lot of 1 acre or more. Many times we are cutting stuff that is borderline of ending to be bush hogged masthead of cut with a mower.......
City people don't understand what it's like to cut grass in the country.
I loose my hat 10 times a day on tree limbs
My wife has a few pics that you can just see my head popping up out of the grass/weeds. Got a call from a guy with 10 acres wanted it cut and looking good. I got there and it was 6 foot tall and full if Bradford pear trees. I told him he needs to find someone to cut rake and bale it.
#94
T
Tom59
It's absurd ....but , if you write a ticket out send the fine to me. :biggrin:
T
Tom59
WHO would write the enforcement ticket ???
It's absurd ....but , if you write a ticket out send the fine to me. :biggrin:
#97
S
Shughes717
S
Shughes717
This topic is crazy. That would be an unenforceable law. Just look at the points brought up in the first few points. You can't use laws to single out particular groups of people. It would be discriminating if you only ticketed lawn care professionals. Just because one mower has seat belts and a roll bar and another doesn't how could anyone justify ticketing the mower owner who had the safety equipment. If there were laws passed to ticket people from removing safety equipment then the law would also have to require all new mowers built (tractor or ztr, commercial or residential) have the same safety equipment. The equipment is on there and is recommended to cover the manufacturer in case of lawsuit. The law would never be passed on the state or federal level. There maybe some crazy city governments who would pass a city ordinance for something like that. In that case enforcement would fall onto the city's police department. I have seen some crazy ordinances in my career in law enforcement ( example: an ordinance against leaving garbage cans near the curb. Luckily I don't work for a city department anymore), but that one would top them all.
#98
jekjr
jekjr
Personally I think people who suggest mess like that outta be fined. Operating a Zero Turn is more dangerous with a ROP up than it is down. I own three myself and operate one of them daily. I am sure that they can be flipped. However I have never seen one flipped. However having the ROP up on one is a daily collision with something. We run the ROPS folds on two and up on the third. The reason we leave it up is we use a bagger on that mower and can't leave it folded and open the bagger.
#99
John R
John R
I voted NO, I am sick and tired of the government mandating things I have to do.
I think the ROPS is a good idea because stupid people mow their lawns too.
It's hard to protect the stupid people.
I think the ROPS is a good idea because stupid people mow their lawns too.
It's hard to protect the stupid people.
#100
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
We have a simple solution to these problens down here,
If an employee is using any equipment with any of the safety devices disabled then the owner of the equipment & the employer are charged and this is manditory.
If an owner injures theselves and any of the safety gear is bypassed then their insurance claim is declined and they have to foot the entire bill apart from hospital which is free.
It was a good idea till it went a bit too far and people lost their house because a sticker was not on a quad bike.
I have done more than 1 wheelie when testing a customers ZTR and finding a low sign, tree branch etc.
If an employee is using any equipment with any of the safety devices disabled then the owner of the equipment & the employer are charged and this is manditory.
If an owner injures theselves and any of the safety gear is bypassed then their insurance claim is declined and they have to foot the entire bill apart from hospital which is free.
It was a good idea till it went a bit too far and people lost their house because a sticker was not on a quad bike.
I have done more than 1 wheelie when testing a customers ZTR and finding a low sign, tree branch etc.
#101
H
Have_Blue
Exactly. By the time all equipment is made foolproof, there will be no shortage of fools to operate it. I like safety, but I despise those who force their judgment on what is safe upon me.
I always use my safety features if they don't hinder my work. If they do, I weigh the consequences of disabling or removing it. The chances of me hitting a rock or turning over my ZTR on perfectly flat ground are zero. I usually disable the seat switch, but my current mower's switch only kills the engine if the blades are engaged. So this seat switch is well thought out, and will stay active.
H
Have_Blue
I voted NO, I am sick and tired of the government mandating things I have to do.
I think the ROPS is a good idea because stupid people mow their lawns too.
It's hard to protect the stupid people.
Exactly. By the time all equipment is made foolproof, there will be no shortage of fools to operate it. I like safety, but I despise those who force their judgment on what is safe upon me.
I always use my safety features if they don't hinder my work. If they do, I weigh the consequences of disabling or removing it. The chances of me hitting a rock or turning over my ZTR on perfectly flat ground are zero. I usually disable the seat switch, but my current mower's switch only kills the engine if the blades are engaged. So this seat switch is well thought out, and will stay active.
#102
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The big problem is one of attitude and thinking.
Because every thing is made "safe" there is an assumption that no matter what I ever sit my butt in I can not get hurt no matter what I do.
Thus the most important safety device, your brain, gets switched off and you don't bother to do any sort of risk assesment.
The one tha always killed me was a female "safety enforcement officer" instructing the loading dock workers at a casino on safe use of motorised pallet trolleys.
She stood there, hard hat on, long leather gauntlet gloves on, hi-vis vest over the miniskirt ( knee & leg protection ? ) and stockinged legs sitting in 3" open toed high heeled shoes.
She was standing right under the sign stating that only people wearing long sleeved shirts , long legged trousers and steel capped shoes allowed past this point.
The driver standing next to me whipped out his phone & took a photo .
He was going to send it in to the Union magazine that always takes delight in publishing such photos.
She demanded that the phone be confiscated and he be charged as she was ardent he was trying to photograph up her skirt.
So Me being me piped up that the pink & white Collete Dinningham undies she was wearing were nothing fancy and all 12 drivers at the dock could not help but see "up her legs" because she was not wearing the manditory safety wear.
The rest of the drivers then started to hoot & whistle.
We all got banned from making further deliveries to that venue.
Because every thing is made "safe" there is an assumption that no matter what I ever sit my butt in I can not get hurt no matter what I do.
Thus the most important safety device, your brain, gets switched off and you don't bother to do any sort of risk assesment.
The one tha always killed me was a female "safety enforcement officer" instructing the loading dock workers at a casino on safe use of motorised pallet trolleys.
She stood there, hard hat on, long leather gauntlet gloves on, hi-vis vest over the miniskirt ( knee & leg protection ? ) and stockinged legs sitting in 3" open toed high heeled shoes.
She was standing right under the sign stating that only people wearing long sleeved shirts , long legged trousers and steel capped shoes allowed past this point.
The driver standing next to me whipped out his phone & took a photo .
He was going to send it in to the Union magazine that always takes delight in publishing such photos.
She demanded that the phone be confiscated and he be charged as she was ardent he was trying to photograph up her skirt.
So Me being me piped up that the pink & white Collete Dinningham undies she was wearing were nothing fancy and all 12 drivers at the dock could not help but see "up her legs" because she was not wearing the manditory safety wear.
The rest of the drivers then started to hoot & whistle.
We all got banned from making further deliveries to that venue.
#103
I
ingigo
I
ingigo
Love the story!!
Nowadays, tickets are basically used to eliminate the blame on a product and/or practice. It is just an insurance like deal.
Your life is what matters. I feel you can use any setup you want. Oddly why isn't the "ticket" aimed at seatbelt use? The ROPS serves no purpose otherwise.
I question how much the ROPS on a Zero-Turn would even help.
It is akin to being fined having the ROS system permanently engaged on the ignition.
On larger tractors with ROPS, I honestly think being free and jumping with the ROPS down is the safest.
Do take my advice seriously!I
Mow like you are flying an airplane, SAFETY, preflight runaround, preflight check, warm the engine...relax and mow.
Nowadays, tickets are basically used to eliminate the blame on a product and/or practice. It is just an insurance like deal.
Your life is what matters. I feel you can use any setup you want. Oddly why isn't the "ticket" aimed at seatbelt use? The ROPS serves no purpose otherwise.
I question how much the ROPS on a Zero-Turn would even help.
It is akin to being fined having the ROS system permanently engaged on the ignition.
On larger tractors with ROPS, I honestly think being free and jumping with the ROPS down is the safest.
Do take my advice seriously!I
Mow like you are flying an airplane, SAFETY, preflight runaround, preflight check, warm the engine...relax and mow.