Ozcub
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A "Husky" boy
Oz
Oils
- Thread starter Skippydiesel
- Start date
Oz
Skippydiesel
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Please to meet you.
I am a agriculturist, jake-of-all-trades-master of none.
My first ride on, named "Wallace & Gromit" (W&G) with a B&S 14hp, homemade Armstrong starter (12v one RS), driving a manual gearbox and a slasher style cutter deck. She was a hybrid, made out of three mowers, gifted to me in various stages of disrepair. W&G gave good serves for the next 30 years - sold to some chap down your way, who picked her up in a very fancy Holden SS Ute (was that you?).
Since W&G and up until shortly after Covid - people kept giving me their old ride ons. Almost all just needed some TLC and they were almost as good as new. Had a good trade going for a few years - seems to have dried up to the point where I gave away a nice Toro Wheel Horse the other day.
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aussielawny
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They don't make them as good now unfortunately, less & less ztr's with separate pumps & motors, all transaxles now.......SS ute? l wish
aussielawny
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North side of the bay......Curra
Sorry guys, but after reading through this thread I couldn't help but notice all the incorrect information provided concerning HDDP and oil in general. Rather than beating it to death here I'll just provide a link where you can learn the truth about engine oils in general. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ Be more than happy to answer questions if the blog format is too daunting to read/navigate.
rickss69. I didn't read anywhere close to all 80 billion words in the link you sent. It seems to focus mostly on watercooled engines. There is mention that air cooled engines run hotter and should run Xw50 or Xw60 weight oils. My take-away is that the point of the blog is to say the need for high zinc oil is a hoax.
80 billion words do not change the fact that, Kawasaki, a leading manufacturer of air-cooled engines, sells a wide range of high zinc oils and recommends them for their engines.
As for the blog's accusation referring to zinc oil users: "Only stupid people keep doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting different results" I personally keep using the same high zinc oil over and over again, as recommended by the manufacturer, expecting the same fantastic results.
If what you are doing is working for you, and you take responsibility for the results, then great. Where I have a problem is when people ignore the manufacturer's recommendations because they know better from some guy's blog, and then they come whining to the manufacturer wanting warranty coverage when they didn't follow directions.
80 billion words do not change the fact that, Kawasaki, a leading manufacturer of air-cooled engines, sells a wide range of high zinc oils and recommends them for their engines.
As for the blog's accusation referring to zinc oil users: "Only stupid people keep doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting different results" I personally keep using the same high zinc oil over and over again, as recommended by the manufacturer, expecting the same fantastic results.
If what you are doing is working for you, and you take responsibility for the results, then great. Where I have a problem is when people ignore the manufacturer's recommendations because they know better from some guy's blog, and then they come whining to the manufacturer wanting warranty coverage when they didn't follow directions.
Skippydiesel
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Do you mean ZDDP - Zinc in oil?
Good luck finding oil with those levels of zinc. Maybe 1000-1200 or even 1400 if you get lucky but where are you going to find virgin oil out of the bottle with 1500-1800 ppm zinc?
I find the whole oil discussion to be a real waste of time and fairly comical went involves lawn mower engines.
People running around arguing over and over about which one is best and a lot of people have a lot of bad information but wholeheartedly believe it.
I am certain I am guilty of some of this myself. Lol
Just reading through here I saw someone talking about that zinc coats the internal surfaces and lowers the operating temperature and that using automotive oils without enough zinc could shorten the life of an engine.
Firstly, about this temperature, does anybody actually have any facts about this? Has anyone tested the same engine with a 30 weight in it mineral oil and then with a high zinc oil in it and then with a fully synthetic oil that would likely not have much zinc in it? These Wonder syntheticals are supposed to lower temperature too so is it going to be better to have a lower temperature with a synthetic oil or a slightly higher temperature with the zinc?
See what a conundrum it would put these people into when in reality it isn't going to make any difference. Zinc isn't supposed to be about doing any of that but rather offering a little bit of extra cushion and lubrication when medical contact occurs. I have always read that it's only WHEN the contact occurs that it even matters but again we don't know how accurate that is.
Now, about shortening life of an engine? Who are we kidding here? The average person or the vast majority of people or 98% of people probably 99% of people that own a mower are NEVER going to even come close to wearing it out.
Sure, tons of people will tell you a story about their engine wore out or their engine blew up or their engine needed an overhaul or they had to replace their engine and I can tell you right now NONE are these engines were worn out.
They may have had something like the valve guide or the actual head around the valve guide completely worn out because they had a failure in the valve train and it was continued to operate and it wallowed out the hole so big that it couldn't even be fixed without extensive machine shop work so some shop convince them just to replace the engine because it was going to be so much to replace the head and they need both head gasket done and all that blah blah blah you know the story.
Or the mini Briggs & Stratton engines on residential riders with a blown head gasket that used to be 3 to $400 to fix three or four years ago and now they're quoting $500 to do or the camshaft replacement due to the ACR busted and people will say they had a bad engine... But it certainly wasn't worn out.
Pretty much every one of these engines that's replaced is due to some failure or needed repair and unless they were run low on oil which is really a separate circumstance because they were neglected and especially abused causing excessive and catastrophic where, not wearing out because of use.... But every one of these that wasn't run without oil, still has an awesome finish on the cylinder walls with the crosshatching showing and likely wonderful compression from the rings.
The oil is simply a moot point but people want to make it a big one.
It's pretty evident when you look at the decades all the way to the day on the recommended viscosity charts etc and the API classifications where you can use anything from a 20 weight oil, 30 weight oil, 10w30, 10w40, 15 w 40, 20 w 50, API certifications all over the alphabet etc and all they worry about is the temperature because they don't want you to use super thick oil at cold temperatures when the stuff is like honey.
Other than that it's not going to make much difference and you certainly aren't going to notice if you "where your engine out sooner".
The same goes for the ultra high performance Japanese sport bikes for decades,
They're viscosity charts looked about the same as the lawn mowers but yet for our automobiles, they have been telling us for decades and even stamping it on the oil filter cap that you must use one specific viscosity.
SMDH anyone who can't figure out that this is all about CAFE standards and a number of other things isn't really paying attention or is quite gullible.
Even if the engineers who designed and tested your engine knows exactly which oil will give it the best protection and make the parts have the least amount of wear with a huge amount of miles, that recommendation and memo will never get to you.
It was buried by the executives and the bean counters shortly after it was submitted because they, nor the manufacturer of the car has any desire to make your engine or every other engine they manufacture and sell last the longest and the most number of miles possible.
Now with lawn mowers it's just a joke because as I said people are out here worrying about not wearing out their engine sooner when the average person or typical person or even more accurately 98% of the people don't stand a chance of wearing out their engine..
They would have to use it not just 10 times but at least 20 times more than they're ever going to use it to ever come close to putting the hours on it that could approach the lifespan of the engine.
I would venture to say under 5% of owners would ever be in this category.
Oil, preferences, and all these other Hang-Ups are all about whatever makes you happy and more comfortable and what lets you sleep better at night.
Like when you get a new piece of equipment or a new car it's kind of like your baby and you want to take care of it and everything and you check it and you change the oil religiously and you keep it super clean and all that and then in a few years could be 2 years for some people could be eight for other people but eventually the only thing you're checking is that there's oil on the dipstick and when it gets down to the ad Mark you top it off again and you don't remember when the last time is you changed it.
This is how it works for most mowers.
YOU may not fit this description but believe me when I tell you this is exactly how most equipment is treated,
Heck, most equipment is lucky if it gets this treatment because normally they don't even check the oil and this is why so many engines get damaged, lock up, or snap rods.
I don't make the rules and I didn't determine it to be this way but I have witnessed it, observed it, paid very close attention to it for a really long time with a huge number of customers and this is how it plays out.
I will say this could be absolutely regionally dependent but what I have stated is factual in many parts of the US.
There is zero chance ever that I will put or feel it's necessary to put a fully synthetic oil in a lawn mower.
High zinc like Valvoline VR1 conventional if you really feel you must but mostly because you can get a straight 30 or a straight 40 and even a 50 if you want that also has higher zinc content which can't hurt if it gets low.
But worrying about buying oil that comes out of a Honda bottle or a Kawasaki bottle when YOU don't even know what the parts per million zinc for that oil is.... Is called blind loyalty and just doing it to make yourself feel better.
People running around arguing over and over about which one is best and a lot of people have a lot of bad information but wholeheartedly believe it.
I am certain I am guilty of some of this myself. Lol
Just reading through here I saw someone talking about that zinc coats the internal surfaces and lowers the operating temperature and that using automotive oils without enough zinc could shorten the life of an engine.
Firstly, about this temperature, does anybody actually have any facts about this? Has anyone tested the same engine with a 30 weight in it mineral oil and then with a high zinc oil in it and then with a fully synthetic oil that would likely not have much zinc in it? These Wonder syntheticals are supposed to lower temperature too so is it going to be better to have a lower temperature with a synthetic oil or a slightly higher temperature with the zinc?
See what a conundrum it would put these people into when in reality it isn't going to make any difference. Zinc isn't supposed to be about doing any of that but rather offering a little bit of extra cushion and lubrication when medical contact occurs. I have always read that it's only WHEN the contact occurs that it even matters but again we don't know how accurate that is.
Now, about shortening life of an engine? Who are we kidding here? The average person or the vast majority of people or 98% of people probably 99% of people that own a mower are NEVER going to even come close to wearing it out.
Sure, tons of people will tell you a story about their engine wore out or their engine blew up or their engine needed an overhaul or they had to replace their engine and I can tell you right now NONE are these engines were worn out.
They may have had something like the valve guide or the actual head around the valve guide completely worn out because they had a failure in the valve train and it was continued to operate and it wallowed out the hole so big that it couldn't even be fixed without extensive machine shop work so some shop convince them just to replace the engine because it was going to be so much to replace the head and they need both head gasket done and all that blah blah blah you know the story.
Or the mini Briggs & Stratton engines on residential riders with a blown head gasket that used to be 3 to $400 to fix three or four years ago and now they're quoting $500 to do or the camshaft replacement due to the ACR busted and people will say they had a bad engine... But it certainly wasn't worn out.
Pretty much every one of these engines that's replaced is due to some failure or needed repair and unless they were run low on oil which is really a separate circumstance because they were neglected and especially abused causing excessive and catastrophic where, not wearing out because of use.... But every one of these that wasn't run without oil, still has an awesome finish on the cylinder walls with the crosshatching showing and likely wonderful compression from the rings.
The oil is simply a moot point but people want to make it a big one.
It's pretty evident when you look at the decades all the way to the day on the recommended viscosity charts etc and the API classifications where you can use anything from a 20 weight oil, 30 weight oil, 10w30, 10w40, 15 w 40, 20 w 50, API certifications all over the alphabet etc and all they worry about is the temperature because they don't want you to use super thick oil at cold temperatures when the stuff is like honey.
Other than that it's not going to make much difference and you certainly aren't going to notice if you "where your engine out sooner".
The same goes for the ultra high performance Japanese sport bikes for decades,
They're viscosity charts looked about the same as the lawn mowers but yet for our automobiles, they have been telling us for decades and even stamping it on the oil filter cap that you must use one specific viscosity.
SMDH anyone who can't figure out that this is all about CAFE standards and a number of other things isn't really paying attention or is quite gullible.
Even if the engineers who designed and tested your engine knows exactly which oil will give it the best protection and make the parts have the least amount of wear with a huge amount of miles, that recommendation and memo will never get to you.
It was buried by the executives and the bean counters shortly after it was submitted because they, nor the manufacturer of the car has any desire to make your engine or every other engine they manufacture and sell last the longest and the most number of miles possible.
Now with lawn mowers it's just a joke because as I said people are out here worrying about not wearing out their engine sooner when the average person or typical person or even more accurately 98% of the people don't stand a chance of wearing out their engine..
They would have to use it not just 10 times but at least 20 times more than they're ever going to use it to ever come close to putting the hours on it that could approach the lifespan of the engine.
I would venture to say under 5% of owners would ever be in this category.
Oil, preferences, and all these other Hang-Ups are all about whatever makes you happy and more comfortable and what lets you sleep better at night.
Like when you get a new piece of equipment or a new car it's kind of like your baby and you want to take care of it and everything and you check it and you change the oil religiously and you keep it super clean and all that and then in a few years could be 2 years for some people could be eight for other people but eventually the only thing you're checking is that there's oil on the dipstick and when it gets down to the ad Mark you top it off again and you don't remember when the last time is you changed it.
This is how it works for most mowers.
YOU may not fit this description but believe me when I tell you this is exactly how most equipment is treated,
Heck, most equipment is lucky if it gets this treatment because normally they don't even check the oil and this is why so many engines get damaged, lock up, or snap rods.
I don't make the rules and I didn't determine it to be this way but I have witnessed it, observed it, paid very close attention to it for a really long time with a huge number of customers and this is how it plays out.
I will say this could be absolutely regionally dependent but what I have stated is factual in many parts of the US.
There is zero chance ever that I will put or feel it's necessary to put a fully synthetic oil in a lawn mower.
High zinc like Valvoline VR1 conventional if you really feel you must but mostly because you can get a straight 30 or a straight 40 and even a 50 if you want that also has higher zinc content which can't hurt if it gets low.
But worrying about buying oil that comes out of a Honda bottle or a Kawasaki bottle when YOU don't even know what the parts per million zinc for that oil is.... Is called blind loyalty and just doing it to make yourself feel better.
Hundreds of people a day pay hundreds of dollars extra for a mower with a Kawasaki brand engine because they trust the brand. Call it "blind trust" if you wish. But if they trust Kawasaki to build a solid engine, then why would they not trust Kawasaki to be honest about the content of Kawasaki brand oil? And after an investment of $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 in a Kawasaki-powered mower, why would they worry about paying $5 extra for an oil change to follow their trusted OEM's recommendation?
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