Oils

[Old Gweilo]

Tad off topic, sorry -

Motorcycles (or any engine) with integrated gear box or using the same oil in gearbox as crankcase should, in general , not use friction (zinc?) modified oils.

I am not sure about your MC/diesel oils commonality being zinc - I will investigate.

Zinc seems to be a relativly recent innovation - I suspect the marketing, rather than technical, department. Not saying zinc may not do good things for the engine (specially the aircooled variety).

If in doubt, contact motorcycle/oil manufacture technical department for advice/recommendations.

"Zinc seems to be a relatively recent innovation",,,,,

Actually, Zinc was a common package component in most motor oils back in the days of flat tappet car engines with no catalytic converters. Zinc is death on converters so has been all but eliminated from automotive oils but remains a common component in oils blended for diesel and motorcycle, (air cooled), engines. Even in these latter applications, ZDDP has been reduced in oils, owing to modern day EPA concerns. Not to nit pick but "zinc", as a motor oil component, has been around a long time. Its removal is actually the recent innovation. That zinc is good for internal combustion engines is beyond doubt, just don't go nuts with the ZDDP additive products because, like any good thing, you can overdo it.

 

[Old Gweilo]

On the oil recommendations chart it says use API: SF, SG, SH, SJ or SL. That is the same thing as saying use high Zinc oil, because when you get to SM is when zinc was reduced by 47% to extend catalytic converter life in automobiles, and when air cooled engine oil was born, which is basically the same thing automotive oil use to be before they reduced the zinc.

Zinc is short for a compound ZDDP (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate). It makes the oil more thermally conductive which allows it to better cool the engine. It also creates a slick film over surfaces to reduce wear.

Running lower zinc automotive oil is not likely to result in any problem in the short run, but over time more heat and more wear will reduce the life of the engine.

Multi-weight oil such as 10w40 is not as thick when it is cold, which allows faster circulation on startup. It is generally recommended to run multi-weight oil in engines that have overhead components to be lubricated because the lubricant can reach those components faster on startup, which reduces startup wear. Most modern air-cooled engines are now overhead valve.

About impact on fuel consumption. I think your manual was speaking about oil consumption.

The high zinc 10w40 semi-synthetic that your local shop is recommending sounds like a winner. It sounds like it may be K-Tech 10w40. All the K-Tech motor oils from 10w30 to 15w50 are rated SL meaning they are high zinc(ZDDP).

Excellent post !!

May I add that automotive multi-grade oils are formulated to spec within a 40 deg C to 100 deg C temp range, ( yep, I'm Canadian). All oil viscosities change with changes in temp, as you know. That "Air cooled" engines often suffer operation temps both above and below, (depending on where you live), spec temp ranges it makes the argument in favor of "synthetics" all the more valid. Synthetic base oils thicken less on cooling and thin less on heating than multi- grade conventional oils tend to do. By extension, this supports their use particularly in applications where engine temperatures often exceed 100 deg C and / or experience a high frequency of startups at temps below 40 deg C. This, IMHO is by no means a critical consideration but, over the life of an engine, may make a difference by extending engine life.

 

[Old Gweilo]

I hear what you are saying but the Hydro-gear manual states that by using a full synthetic you double the change time I only use a regular oil in the engine
As for the air filters , I reverse vacuum the air filter gently and wash and re-oil the pre-cleaner after every mow and as Skippydiesel says give it a good blow and wipe down after every mow
Gweilo is a "name" Chinese use
Oz

Good catch on the "Gweilo" term. During my 25 years working in SEA I picked up on the term, and its implications. I'm obviously not insulted by it. On the contrary, it reminds me of the wonderful times and cherished friendships I enjoyed while working in the region, China in particular.

 

[Gord Baker]

Yes! I realise this topic may have been discussed to death already but recommendations seem to change over time so I thought why not give it another go.

I live in Australia - climate range can go from 0C (rarely) - 47C (also rare). Mowing range mostly 21- 40C (grass growing).

In my small engines - push mowers/pumps/generator/ compressor, older ride on (B & S 17 hp) I use a straight, single grade, mineral oil W30 - never had a problem.

Put a new Kawasaki 22hp in my commercial zero turn - Mower shop recommended I use a semi synthetic 10W-40 with Zinc. Kawasaki manual says I can use the 10W- 30 or 40 OR the straight W30 BUT advises that fuel consumption will go up with the multigrade oils.

I am happy to put a semi synthetic multigrade in my "Kwaka" IF there a real benefit, otherwise will use the W30.

What is your advice?

Use 10W30 Full synthetic and don't think it to death. Follow Manufacturers recommendations when in doubt.

 

[Old Gweilo]

Tad off topic, sorry -

Motorcycles (or any engine) with integrated gear box or using the same oil in gearbox as crankcase should, in general , not use friction (zinc?) modified oils.

I am not sure about your MC/diesel oils commonality being zinc - I will investigate.

Zinc seems to be a relativly recent innovation - I suspect the marketing, rather than technical, department. Not saying zinc may not do good things for the engine (specially the aircooled variety).

If in doubt, contact motorcycle/oil manufacture technical department for advice/recommendations.

"Motorcycles (or any engine) with integrated gear box or using the same oil in gearbox as crankcase should, in general , not use friction (zinc?) modified oils."

This can be a complex issue as some modifiers reduce friction (Moly), and others increase it. In a seeming paradox, ZDDP both reduces wear and "increases" friction.

I would only use high viscosity Gear Oil in a gearbox. In a unique system which uses the same oil in crank case and gearbox, I would stick strictly with what the mfg. recommends. Same with LM transaxles which are separate from the engine but use oils of a similar viscosity. One should not change transaxle fluids themselves unless they are suitably equipped and familiar with the procedure. Intuitively dumping replacement oil into the system through the expansion tank filler openings can be a costly mistake.

My HD has separate compartments and different oils for crank case, transmission and wet clutch, for example. Wet clutch oils can contain friction "reducing" modifiers. Crank case and transmission oils generally don't. Again, in a seeming paradox, MC engine oils are loaded with zinc. I use Red Line 20 / 50 oil which is particularly high in ZDDP. I would venture the friction vs anti wear tradeoff in engine oils favors zinc. ZDDP has been in use in such oils for a very long time and its benefit to engines well documented. Catalytic convertors don't like it.

 

[epare]

Yes! I realise this topic may have been discussed to death already but recommendations seem to change over time so I thought why not give it another go.

I live in Australia - climate range can go from 0C (rarely) - 47C (also rare). Mowing range mostly 21- 40C (grass growing).

In my small engines - push mowers/pumps/generator/ compressor, older ride on (B & S 17 hp) I use a straight, single grade, mineral oil W30 - never had a problem.

Put a new Kawasaki 22hp in my commercial zero turn - Mower shop recommended I use a semi synthetic 10W-40 with Zinc. Kawasaki manual says I can use the 10W- 30 or 40 OR the straight W30 BUT advises that fuel consumption will go up with the multigrade oils.

I am happy to put a semi synthetic multigrade in my "Kwaka" IF there a real benefit, otherwise will use the W30.

What is your advice?

Here's a different approach for you - go to https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/search/?q=VR1+Racing+Motor+Oil and look at the Valvoline VR1 Racing Motor Oils. My brother is a long time mechanical engineer who has his own business making parts for practically all race cars, including Indy and Formula 1. According to his contacts who are oil experts, Valvoline makes top notch oils. I've been using them in all my engines for years. If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to contact Valvoline via one of the methods available at https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/contact-us/

 

[Canuck64]

Yes! I realise this topic may have been discussed to death already but recommendations seem to change over time so I thought why not give it another go.

I live in Australia - climate range can go from 0C (rarely) - 47C (also rare). Mowing range mostly 21- 40C (grass growing).

In my small engines - push mowers/pumps/generator/ compressor, older ride on (B & S 17 hp) I use a straight, single grade, mineral oil W30 - never had a problem.
H

 

[Canuck64]

Here's a different approach for you - go to https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/search/?q=VR1+Racing+Motor+Oil and look at the Valvoline VR1 Racing Motor Oils. My brother is a long time mechanical engineer who has his own business making parts for practically all race cars, including Indy and Formula 1. According to his contacts who are oil experts, Valvoline makes top notch oils. I've been using them in all my engines for years. If I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to contact Valvoline via one of the methods available at https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/contact-us/

A bit of a different take, I can relate to the -47c and the 40c temps, we get both here. Running a 22 HP Kawa twin that sees use all year long. Have run nothing but Mobile 1 10-30 full synth. Routine valve adjustments. Regular once per season oil change and a new WIX filter. Have over 1300 hrs on engine without a touch of repair. Valve mechanism looks like new. Runs quiet. Starts at -40s without external heating (thats why I tried the full synth). Unit is used for mowing, attached sprayer and general hauling in the summer and snow blowing in the winter. I feel that the additional cost of the oil and a good filter is off set by the low wear and engine reliability. Also changed the Tuff Torque Hydrostatic 46 trans to 10-50 Mobile 1 and drilled the base pan for oil draining. Still works like new as well (they have a reputation of dying at 4-600 hrs) and looks it inside. I think any quality synth would work as good. Bet of luck from Canada

 

[BudTugley]

My Go To small engine oil is Kawasaki's K-Tec 15w50 which is fully synthetic, high zinc (SL rated).

 

[aussielawny]

G'day Skippy
l'm east of you, Jervis Bay area, lawn contractor for 35 yrs. l've always run Penrite semi synthetic 10w-30 in my Kawa FX and never a drama. I use briggs own 30w in the other ride ons (with briggs engines) and use Penrite 15-50 full synth in the hydros......