Oil filter question please help!

bertsmobile1

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Man oh Man I haven’t been on here in a while and come back to ask another question about the mower and noticed this had grown to 9 pages. I appreciate y’all’s input but I didn’t mean to start a ruckus.
I think all of y’all are awesome.
I have a easy question that I’ll start another post on it has nothing to do with oil I promise.
Oil threads are always full of armchair experts who have little to no understanding about lubrication
Oil filters come a close second
Always fun
Over the years it has become very apparent the less people know about some thing the more ardently they will argue about it .
Remember all of the "experts" who have not done 1 minute of biology study let alone virology study argueing about Covid.
All experts in their own minds
And I know one person who sold their house & moved because they KNEW the 5G tower that was build near by would cause every one to get Covid .


The good thing is some of the ill informed will read this posts and actually do some thinking about it rather than blindly following their Face Book hero.
Like religion there is no way to convince those with closed minds that what they believe is wrong but the ones who are capable of thinking might get some benefit from it .

I do not consider myself an oil expert in any way shape of form but I did study lubrication for 13 weeks at college and latter on taught it for 8 years so I do have a basic understanding , enough to understand that cutting an oil filter open proves absolutely nothing unless you subject the contents to physical & chemical tests and even then you need to do it regularly to establish base lines .
X-Ray diffraction of oil ( which I was involved in back in the 70's ) will tell you what alloys the metallic parts are and the chemical composition of the non metallics.
Chemical analysis , usually flame chromotography will tell you the metals present and roughly their concentrations but not enough to determine if the iron came from the cylinder liner or crankshaft journal but it is the most commonly done because it is cheap & easily automated .
So now the nay-sayers will feel the need to chime in and we will roll over the 10 page count .
 

GrumpyCat

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I do not consider myself an oil expert in any way shape of form but I did study lubrication for 13 weeks at college and latter on taught it for 8 years so I do have a basic understanding , enough to understand that cutting an oil filter open proves absolutely nothing unless you subject the contents to physical & chemical tests and even then you need to do it regularly to establish base lines .
Cutting a new filter open only tells you whether there really is a filter inside. Cutting a used filter open tells you whether the filter element collapsed. And if parts fall out you know the engine is in failure. This is why aviation operations require the filter to be inspected after use.

Fram is popularly dissed by the ignorant for using fiber end plates on the filter element. "Cardboard!" they cry! Well so what? the element is paper. If the "cardboard" does its job (cut used filters open) then it did its job.

Anyone remember the JC Whitney reloadable toilet paper oil filter? It checks all the boxes for a superior oil filter!
 

Douglasdzaster

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Cutting a new filter open only tells you whether there really is a filter inside. Cutting a used filter open tells you whether the filter element collapsed. And if parts fall out you know the engine is in failure. This is why aviation operations require the filter to be inspected after use.

Fram is popularly dissed by the ignorant for using fiber end plates on the filter element. "Cardboard!" they cry! Well so what? the element is paper. If the "cardboard" does its job (cut used filters open) then it did its job.

Anyone remember the JC Whitney reloadable toilet paper oil filter? It checks all the boxes for a superior oil filter!
Never thought about opening an oil filter I’d removed to check for engine trouble. I inspect the old oil and even send it to a lab every now and then. I started doing this when I realized the truck I had bought was high maintenance and has to be done often. It sure is fun to drive though.
 

Honest Abe

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Never thought about opening an oil filter I’d removed to check for engine trouble. I inspect the old oil and even send it to a lab every now and then. I started doing this when I realized the truck I had bought was high maintenance and has to be done often. It sure is fun to drive though.
Or a person could just drain the oil into an oil pan then get a nice strong magnet and set it in the oil pan and pull it out after a minute and see if there are any metal shavings built up on it.
 

GrumpyCat

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Or a person could just drain the oil into an oil pan then get a nice strong magnet and set it in the oil pan and pull it out after a minute and see if there are any metal shavings built up on it.
Parts found in the oil pan are too big to get pumped to the filter.

Many engines have a magnet affixed to the drain plug. Lately this feature has disappeared, my 4 newest engines lack.
 

Douglasdzaster

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Or a person could just drain the oil into an oil pan then get a nice strong magnet and set it in the oil pan and pull it out after a minute and see if there are any metal shavings built up on it.
Done that before too. Magnet won’t pick up aluminum though the way everything is made now a days.
My wife came home one day and said she had a surprise for me. She pulled out a couple of magnetic cup holders and said this is for your boat. I almost didn’t have the heart to tell her.
 

bertsmobile1

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OK I will pay that , you can see if there has been a catastrophic failure internally by cutting the filter open
What I should have said was cutting filters open to compare them will tell you nothing unless you do physical, mechanical & chemical tests on the contents .
And your comment about Fram filters is quite appropriate
There were several posters who were religiously ardent that a Fram filter would destroy their engine , a closed mind opinion based on pig ignorance .
The fibre end plates are actually stronger & last longer than the metal ones because the glue is holding fibre to fibre and the fibre ends expand & contract at a very similar rate to the fibre filter media
Glueing paper to steel is very difficult because they requires 2 totally different types of adheasives plus they expand & contract at vastly different rates .

Douglas.
You must plot the metals concentrations on a graph if you want the oil analysis to be of any use.
And it has to be done very regularly.
Wear is exponential so the graph of time vs individual metals will follow a typical exponential curve so the point of inflection (where a tangental line to the curve hits 45 deg ) is when the part needs to be replaced
We could tell to almost the minute when helicopter engines were going to fail ( or a particular part was about to fail ).
This was backed up by the actual visual inspections & this work revolutionised aircraft maintenance as stripping an engine to check for wear does quite a lot of damage in itself and there is always the potential for say a bush to get moved if a shaft is carelessly forced through it during reassembly .
Plotting the volumes of metallics in the oil by XRD is so much better as nearly every part is made from a different alloy so we could plot piston wear, gudgeon pin wear , crank journal wear , cam wear , cam bush wear , cam follower wear etc etc etc
But it has to be graphed or you can not make sense of it as wear increases with use .
We plotted oil micro particulates and oil filter particulates and we found the oil to be a much better indicator than the filter as the bulk of what gets trapped by the filter is carbon or carbon compounds and by the time you get significant metallic parts in the filter media the part has already worn past it safe limit .

The whole shooting match got closed down for reasons I can not divulge here and those involved were either sacked if they were lab employees or court marshalled for the military personnel .
The civilians went to the USA or UK where they set up similar services and became quite wealthy , another case of ignorant Australian politicians and senior government officials shooting the country in the foot.
We are real experts in doing that down here .
 

RayMcD

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Bert is right.
Whatever you heard it's more than likely wrong! Lol
This crap about once you go to synthetic you can never go back it's just that crap..
People say similar things about never switching brands of oil also which is also crap and just made up Hocus pocus that someone believed in their own mind and said it enough times and enough people believed it and then of course enter the internet so they could tell more people and now it's become kind of an urban legend but it's still a legend.

Now back to oil filters: I guess you should do whatever makes you sleep better at night as people have been doing this with their automobiles making sure they buy an AC Delco for a GM or a motorcraft for a Ford for decades because it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy but in reality unless you're getting them for the same price or cheaper you're just wasting money.. except for most frams or the orange fram standard ones, I won't even put those on a lawn mower!
I wouldn't put one of those on a bicycle and they don't even have oil or oil filters.
No manufacturer makes their own oil filters anyways as they're always made by someone for them and over the years they change manufacturers too and there have been proven differences in quality among the same brand and part numbers of certain filters over the years.

Point being, hardly anyone makes a better filter than Wix so you just can't go wrong with one of those and thinking that replacing a wix with a kohler, Briggs & stratton, Kawasaki or other engine brand filter is just silly and probably counterproductive.

Secondly, it's a lawn mower engine.
All the stuff that Bert said is true.
It's not like a car and these engines lasted 30 and 40 years under hard use before they ever had an oil filter on them AND let's not forget the old oils they were using which some people never pass up the chance to tell you how old are superior and advanced nowadays but we can certainly argue about that too.

Thirdly, of all the problems people have with lawn mowers , failures, engine failures etc basically you can look at every number and every box that's checked and you can find out that pretty much none of them are because of the oil filter or the brand, type of oil synthetic versus dimensional, or even the weight of oil.
Any boxes or numbers you would see in the failures attributed to that but probably just be sloppiness or air from the people who entered them because in the real world none of these things make much difference.

What DOES matter is having enough oil in it and not having any leaks bad enough to lower the level too dangerous levels.
So as long as the oil filter is it damaged, installed improperly, leaking around the gasket due to an old gasket being stuck on there or not being the proper size so it can't seal completely and as long as there's some sort of automotive oil in the crankcase whether it be SAE 30, SAE 40, 15w40, 5w40, 10w30, 10w40, 20 w 50 or several others even and as long as it's at a safe level on the dipstick THEN it really makes little difference.

People can pull themselves and convince themselves all they want but this is how it plays out in the real world.

People bring me lawn mowers that are well over 20 years old that probably haven't had the oil changed and at least 18 of those years. Maybe, just maybe they changed it once or twice in the first 3 years some don't even get that..
All they have had done is topped off for the entire life of the mower.
The oil is about as black as you can get, it's thicker than it should be but guess what.... The engine still run fine and they still have tons of life left in them.
On the other hand I get a handful of mowers in every year most of which are relatively new and under 4 years old that are completely locked up because the owner bought it new and never checked the oil since the day they put it into service.

So in the real world it's not about brand a filter or oil or the frequency of changes or the cleanliness etc but rather the presence of enough oil or basically the amount.


I use a 51348 on every briggs, kohler, Chinese/Lincoln etc as they might be a little longer but pretty much fit on everything except a few of the r1000s or rear engine rider Troy-Bilt and Craftsman because they can hit due to the mounting of the engine.
There are several different part numbers that are basically the same filter just different links but the 51348 is the most common all around one that fits pretty much everything but Kawasaki.
Those typically get a 51394.
Mr. T, the two filter you mention have the same spec except the 51348 is ~ 1/2" taller, why would you not put it on a Kawasaki? r
 

Douglasdzaster

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After going back through a lot of the conversations on this thread . Which I had know idea it would blow up when I ask about the oil filter. 😂
Ive received a plethora of information to absorb.
I’m just a 57 year old shad tree guy that has done all my own work until the past few years. 30 years ago I more than once bought a truck cheap with a blown engine and went to a junk yard and bought a good used engine and have it swapped out in a weekend. I’ve had engines on mowers outlast the machine it’s self and would find me a machine that needed an engine and kept on running.
Now with all the changes I’m asking more questions than I have answers. I’ve about convinced myself things just aren’t made to last anymore. I know that the last few push mowers I’ve bought new each one last a little less longer than the last. I change my oil. It’s always checked before each use along with the air filter. Blown off with air after each use with frequent removed cowling and deep cleaned and detailed to look new again. Always fresh ethanol free fuel.
Thats what’s the shame about this Husqvarna with the Kohler y’all are helping me with. Yes the lady let it sit outside for a long time without starting. But it only has 60hrs. On it and I see one of the valve covers was leaking when she parked it. And knowing her she probably over heated it. Another reason I’m trying to find out what the operation temperature should be. Doesn’t seem to be in the manual.
When I mentioned sending in my oil to a lab. That’s for my 3.5 Ecoboost turbocharged in a truck I traded my 2005 with 285k on it. I started finding out about how these engines need more maintenance and like to be worked and taking trips to town often won’t cut it. So I send in an oil sample every now and then to check for fuel bypass. The way I’m actually avoiding any problems is when I haven’t towed anything and have made a few short trips. I get on a stretch of road I found. Put it in sport mode get on the brake and get it up to about 20 grand on the Tach and turn it loose (takes off like a jack rabbit) and run it until I have to slow down because of the road. This was the advice I was given to take care of it by other owners and mechanics on an Ecoboost
forum. When I go on a 200 mile or more round trip it lives it. Oil level doesn’t change and I go from 15-17 to 19-20 mpg.
All this was unheard of by me 20 years ago.
Theres my 2cents about today’s machines. From an old shad tree guy. I really appreciate all of y’all’s help during this adventure. Check out the final thread I started called One thing after another so I can ask all my questions without creating different topics.
I really need the help. Sometimes I said all I knew when I said hello. 😂
 

BubbaSam

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Kohler 7000 series, try this one on Amazon

Kohler 12 050 01-s1 Oil Filter​

Just be careful and don't buy anything for your mower from Stevens Lake Parts on Amazon. They show ACTUAL OEM parts but nothing but Chinese junk came in. My Ferris internal air cleaner was literally falling apart when it arrived to do the lack of quality.
 
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