Need your help, which one to buy: JD Z245 or TORO SS5060

[Cajun Ken]

I just finished shopping for a new mower, and while looking at John Deeres at my local dealer, I was told that the JD200 series ( 225 and 245 ) which Lowes sells are light duty. The 445 , which is sold only by dealers has a stronger drive train and deck and has a better warranty.

 

[robert]

What -I- learned the hard way:

I would never buy another Exmark product

But more importantly I would never buy a zt again-for someone who is coming from a lt/gt they look neat and the first few times they 'appear' to be alot faster or they are faster until you take a good look at your lawn and it suddenly dawns on you that you cannot make a zero turn on turf without damaging it, NO ONE can make a zt on grass without damaging it.

Yes the zt, or the more commercial zt mowers do have incredible forward speeds but the rapid miles per hour are useless unless one is on a 5 star golfcourse green-or unless one is fortunate enough to have a chiropractor in the family or as a good friend; for the average home turf conditions you will find yourself mowing at reduced lawn tractor speeds AND you will quickly discover that turning a tractor of whatever turning radius is no more time consuming than making three point turns on your smurfy new zt.

The ONLY area one will truly benefit from a zero turn is if you have an incredible number of 'gotta go arounds' in your yard, but it would have to be an awful lot of obstacles.

Lastly, I believe that Briggs has, on their website, a real good blurb on why the zt application is such a hostile one for any engine, and why they went to the 'new' cyclonic air filtration. But even the Deere spec ELS with the neat oil cooler and funky 'cyclonic' filter is still a Briggs. The ELS or 'Professional' is an Intek-ask the dealer to see the manuals and it is listed plainly as such. BUT in fairness to Briggs, while I will never every own another, many tens of thousands of other owners would.

Just one guys opinions.

Sure wish I would have seen all those Cub Cadet pictures on that web site BEFORE I went the Exmark zt route-a horizontal Kohler Command out of 'harms' way up front UNDER the hood, drive shaft, monster cast iron drive, six quarts of juice, with external spin on hydro filter, real bolted on rear wheels----

And think about this, just what good are cup holders on a zero turn?

For me, buying a zero turn; in the end, made zero sense.

 

[Black Bart]

What -I- learned the hard way:

I would never buy another Exmark product

But more importantly I would never buy a zt again-for someone who is coming from a lt/gt they look neat and the first few times they 'appear' to be alot faster or they are faster until you take a good look at your lawn and it suddenly dawns on you that you cannot make a zero turn on turf without damaging it, NO ONE can make a zt on grass without damaging it.Yes the zt, or the more commercial zt mowers do have incredible forward speeds but the rapid miles per hour are useless unless one is on a 5 star golfcourse green-or unless one is fortunate enough to have a chiropractor in the family or as a good friend; for the average home turf conditions you will find yourself mowing at reduced lawn tractor speeds AND you will quickly discover that turning a tractor of whatever turning radius is no more time consuming than making three point turns on your smurfy new zt.

The ONLY area one will truly benefit from a zero turn is if you have an incredible number of 'gotta go arounds' in your yard, but it would have to be an awful lot of obstacles.

Lastly, I believe that Briggs has, on their website, a real good blurb on why the zt application is such a hostile one for any engine, and why they went to the 'new' cyclonic air filtration on the Deere spec ELS which even with the neat oil cooler and funky 'cyclonic' filter because a Briggs ELS or Briggs 'Professional' is an Intek-ask the dealer to see the manuals and it is listed plainly as such. BUT in fairness to Briggs, while I will never every own another, many tens of thousands of other owners would.

Just one guys opinions.

Sure wish I would have seen all those Cub Cadet pictures on that web site BEFORE I went the Exmark zt route-a horizontal Kohler Command out of 'harms' way up front UNDER the hood, drive shaft, monster cast iron drive, six quarts of juice, with external spin on hydro filter, real bolted on rear wheels----

And think about this, just what good are cup holders on a zero turn?

For me, buying a zero turn; in the end, made zero sense.

Robert just because you can not turn a ZTR without making divots does not mean others can not.
The real problem is with the operator not the machine.

That may be one of the advantages of a tractor is very little skill involved in operating it.
Other than requiring a small degree of skill to operate it the ZTR is a much better mower for cutting grass now for other uses the tractor has some advantages and that is why I have both types.

I have been mowing with a ZTR for 25 years and have not had all those problems that you had in the few weeks that you mowed with one.

 

[robert]

Black Bart, well then let me say that while using my Exmark when I zero turn on my lawn the turf gets damaged, when I zero turn on the driveway I can plainly see the rubber marks.
Are you saying that other zt mowers do NOT lock one drive when making a true zero turn?

Remember that by definition a 'zero turn' is being able to turn within the length/dimentions of the wheel base of the piece of equipment, it requires zero additional space-total swing area may be greater but the wheelbase, if I am using the correct terminology, must turn within its own dimention.

 

[Black Bart]

Black Bart, well then let me say that on my Exmark when I zero turn on my lawn gets damaged, when I zero turn on the driveway I can plainly see the rubber marks.
Are you saying that other zt mowers do NOT lock one drive when making a true zero turn?

They will lock the wheel if the operator allows it but if you don't want to tear up the grass you must keep the wheels turning.

It is not rocket science just give it a little thought about what you are doing.
I'm sure others with ZTR experience will be along shortly to back me up on this.

Only time I really think about it is in the spring when the ground is really soft and even then I mow without tearing out a blade of grass.

My new EZ Track is easier to drive than my big 725 GH because the GH weighs much more so it becomes critical to NOT allow the tires to stop turning.

Ever hear the saying practice makes perfect.

I have 2 tractors and 2 ZTR mowers and if I had to go down to just one to use for mowing //Rolling/Aeratting/Dethaching/Pulling my sprayer/pulling my granular fertilizer spreader it would be the new ez trak.

Yes the tractor is nicer for pulling all those other things but I only pull them once a year but I mow every week and the EZ Trak is light years ahead of a tractor for mowing.

Believe me Robert I could take that Exmark that you are constantly bitching about and mow your lawn in half the time you can with your tractor and the lawn will look better also. :biggrin:

I have a friend that is a commercial cutter he used Grasshoppers for about 10 years then switched to Exmark and has been using them for about 12 years.

He likes the Exmark better and I have watched him and his employees mowing and it is amazing to watch then mowing at nearly 15mph.

He mows all the malls and commercial places around here and runs the hell out of them 12 hours a day.

 

[Parkmower]

I agree it's operator error. You can't expect homeowners who mow an hour or two a week to fully grasp zt. I can do zt without tearing up anything. I run one at work and home.

Just goes to show you can't teach old dogs new tricks.

 

[Cabinboy]

Here's what i wrote a week or so ago in the John Deere section

"Got a chance to mow last night finally..........I also cut at 3" height, and I have to say I had no issues at all with strips being left or uneven cuts. And I was cutting fast. My only problem was small tears in the turf from not turning properly. Controls not worn in yet, or more likely the friggin operator

I'll go with the operator. Having said that, i had no issues at all. It sounds kinda strange that they cut plastic away. Thats the whole idea of the mulching kit, is the baffle that is placed in there.

Advise if you've had any luck. I'm gonna get a pic of mine, when I get my MoJack tomorrow. I'll post it when i get a chance.

Cheers

tom"

 

[Cajun Ken]

I got my new eXmark 24/50 ZTR Thursday afternoon and used it yesterday. I am very pleased with the way it cut. My yard is covered with Bermuda grass that I seeded in Late April and I cut it without any damage to the new grass. The mower is very responsive and wants to go. I can see where a newby to ZTR.s might take a while to master it. I cut grass at my Church in Clarksville, for about 15 years with a Bobcat 60" ZTR mower, and I had no problems with the eXmark.

Ken

 

[KennyV]

robert There are tens of thousands using ZTR's every wk. With no damage to the grass...
You have actually came across the problem that you were having...
If you need to make an actual Zero turn... Then that's what you want to do... You Do Not want to pivot a turn. A pivot is NOT a zero turn...
To Zero turn left, you Reverse the left drive while rolling the right drive forward. The machine will rotate on it's width... with Less disturbance than any sharp turn on a regular tractor... & you had the perfect spot to practice these type of turns, on concrete where you will see the difference...

It will take a bit of practice to become proficient with a ztr... but the incredible maneuverability in a zero turn is why it is worth the small effort to learn the system...
And like Bart said you have to have both Drive wheels turning when ever you are making a change in direction, this will become a natural adjustment in the controls as you use them...

Your body is also a ztr... if you make all your turns by pivoting on a planted foot, you'll have the same problems, especially if you are wearing shoes with great traction, like golf shoes... you have to learn how to turn whenever you try something different...

The only time I ever do a true pivot turn is with an Ag tractor when doing row crop work... That is at the end of run where I want to turn 180 degrees and offset the width of the tractor.... That is NOT a Zero turn...
Like anything worthwhile there is a bit of a learning curve, You have to regulate the rotational speeds of the two drive wheels in order to vary the direction your traveling, anytime you stop one, and leave the other moving, you will pivot your turn...
When your mowing, A true zero turn is rarely needed.. but when it is , you can not substitute a pivot... :smile:KennyV

 

[Black Bart]

robert There are tens of thousands using ZTR's every wk. With no damage to the grass...
You have actually came across the problem that you were having...
If you need to make an actual Zero turn... Then that's what you want to do... You Do Not want to pivot a turn. A pivot is NOT a zero turn...
To Zero turn left, you Reverse the left drive while rolling the right drive forward. The machine will rotate on it's width... with Less disturbance than any sharp turn on a regular tractor... & you had the perfect spot to practice these type of turns, on concrete where you will see the difference...

It will take a bit of practice to become proficient with a ztr... but the incredible maneuverability in a zero turn is why it is worth the small effort to learn the system...
And like Bart said you have to have both Drive wheels turning when ever you are making a change in direction, this will become a natural adjustment in the controls as you use them...

Your body is also a ztr... if you make all your turns by pivoting on a planted foot, you'll have the same problems, especially if you are wearing shoes with great traction, like golf shoes... you have to learn how to turn whenever you try something different...

The only time I ever do a true pivot turn is with an Ag tractor when doing row crop work... That is at the end of run where I want to turn 180 degrees and offset the width of the tractor.... That is NOT a Zero turn...
Like anything worthwhile there is a bit of a learning curve, You have to regulate the rotational speeds of the two drive wheels in order to vary the direction your traveling, anytime you stop one, and leave the other moving, you will pivot your turn...
When your mowing, A true zero turn is rarely needed.. but when it is , you can not substitute a pivot... :smile:KennyV

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