GOODBYE TO ELECTRIC

[Peva]

Ok, you didn't totally ignore the other costs, but you focused on "fuel", which, to me, is the least significant cost. I estimate that it costs me $5 per mow. If that went to zero, that wouldn't affect my opinion on what I wanted.

A $2000 price increase? Wow!

(I explained why I focused on the cost of electricity/fuel.)

 

[upupandaway]

35¢ vs. >$25 to cut 3-1/2 acres.

What you leave out is the $500 for replacement batteries then $3000 when you have to replace the whole mower because they don't sell the batteries any more.
I have my 80's mower with original engine. I got it free back in the 90's so my cost- 0+ gas. No way I have used $3000 in gas yet. If you last 30 years with your battery, it would be a miracle.

One of the many benefits of gas is that the professionals only need a few minutes to gas their mower and get back to work. They don't need to carry $5000 of batteries to swap all day and be SOL every few years to replace them. Even if, I don't know how they can service using those plastic mowers to run a business. Someday, someone will show a truck idling while they cut the grass to charge their batteries- classic gas generator to charge a tesla that ran out of power.

You also leave out the cost of gas is because we pay road tax with gas. You Don't.

 

[Peva]

What you leave out is the $500 for replacement batteries then $3000 when you have to replace the whole mower because they don't sell the batteries any more.
I have my 80's mower with original engine. I got it free back in the 90's so my cost- 0+ gas. No way I have used $3000 in gas yet. If you last 30 years with your battery, it would be a miracle.

One of the many benefits of gas is that the professionals only need a few minutes to gas their mower and get back to work. They don't need to carry $5000 of batteries to swap all day and be SOL every few years to replace them. Even if, I don't know how they can service using those plastic mowers to run a business. Someday, someone will show a truck idling while they cut the grass to charge their batteries- classic gas generator to charge a tesla that ran out of power.

You also leave out the cost of gas is because we pay road tax with gas. You Don't.

Jeezo Pete!

I was addressing *only* the cost of gas and the cost of electricity for cutting the same yard - again - because someone brought that up. Nowhere did I state or imply that I was, in that analysis, covering every aspect of ownership - TCO, even though I mentioned several of those other aspects.

AGAIN - I mentioned cost of batteries. I would suggest to you to re-read my posts.

You say i left out things that I did not leave out, such as that I could very well need or decide to scrap and replace the entire mower when the batteries fail (when I'm 79 or 80 years old if I'm still cutting my own grass). Again - re-read my posts.

Nowhere did I suggest that someone use these consumer-grade mowers for professional service. The 5-year warranty in the Ryobi batteries does not apply for use professional/commercial service. I forget if it reverts to 3 or zero years, but i'm not going to the trouble of looking it up.

I'm with you on all the politics we're facing on having EVs crammed down our throats. I know about millions (or was it billions?) of $$ being legislated for chargers and only 4 charger having been built with that money 2 years later.

I am for free choice. I explained why, at 73 y.o. with a back problem that I have to minimize routine maintenance - all I gotta deal with is blade sharpening and swapping.

Anyway...

have a good day.

 

[GrumpyCat]

What you leave out is the $500 for replacement batteries then $3000 when you have to replace the whole mower because they don't sell the batteries any more.
I have my 80's mower with original engine. I got it free back in the 90's so my cost- 0+ gas. No way I have used $3000 in gas yet. If you last 30 years with your battery, it would be a miracle.

One of the many benefits of gas is that the professionals only need a few minutes to gas their mower and get back to work. They don't need to carry $5000 of batteries to swap all day and be SOL every few years to replace them. Even if, I don't know how they can service using those plastic mowers to run a business. Someday, someone will show a truck idling while they cut the grass to charge their batteries- classic gas generator to charge a tesla that ran out of power.

You also leave out the cost of gas is because we pay road tax with gas. You Don't.

Well, you have learned everything you “know“ from biased media which tells you what you want to hear.

30 years from an ICE mower is not unheard of, but unusual.

So, is the battery still available for your 80’s mower? Of course it is. You haven’t spent 30 seconds on YouTube to see how much EV battery technology is being understood and advanced by the lowly masses posting on YouTube. Ain’t really that hard. The ubiquitous 18650 is the standard inside packaged batteries you don’t see. Don’t buy on eBay, most of those are fraudulent, there are reputable online sources. There are multiple vendors offering compatible (so far, inferior) EGo and Greenworks batteries. And DeWalt, Milwaukee, and most everything else. And those who will rebuild your battery using equal or superior cells for significantly less than a new battery assembly.

You pretend a $3000 box store EV mower accurately represents commercial use. That is spinning hard. You pretend all EV mowers are plastic. No serious commercial mowing service buys from box stores. There are commercial EV mowers that will run 8 hours nonstop. Isn’t always a perfect solution for all mowing services but isn’t the “never works, impossible solution” you pretend it to be. Lower maintenance, easy charging at night, quieter operation, pays.

Gas tax! You are clueless! I pay a $203/year EV fee to Alabama in lieu of the gas tax of $0.29/gallon. I prepay for 700 gallons of gasoline, 21,000 miles/year at 30 MPG. I get screwed, I am the one paying for roads I don’t use.

 

[Bertrrr]

Someone brought me a Greeworks mower,,,,,,,battery checked ok, motor was Fried,,,,So sick of these Green new deal people

 

[upupandaway]

Jeezo Pete!

I was addressing *only* the cost of gas and the cost of electricity for cutting the same yard - again - because someone brought that up. Nowhere did I state or imply that I was, in that analysis, covering every aspect of ownership - TCO, even though I mentioned several of those other aspects.

AGAIN - I mentioned cost of batteries. I would suggest to you to re-read my posts.

You say i left out things that I did not leave out, such as that I could very well need or decide to scrap and replace the entire mower when the batteries fail (when I'm 79 or 80 years old if I'm still cutting my own grass). Again - re-read my posts.

Nowhere did I suggest that someone use these consumer-grade mowers for professional service. The 5-year warranty in the Ryobi batteries does not apply for use professional/commercial service. I forget if it reverts to 3 or zero years, but i'm not going to the trouble of looking it up.

I'm with you on all the politics we're facing on having EVs crammed down our throats. I know about millions (or was it billions?) of $$ being legislated for chargers and only 4 charger having been built with that money 2 years later.

I am for free choice. I explained why, at 73 y.o. with a back problem that I have to minimize routine maintenance - all I gotta deal with is blade sharpening and swapping.

Anyway...

have a good day.

I might as well say my car doesn't use any gas just because I'm not driving it right now. It is pretty lame to tell me it is cheaper by ignoring certain costs and not comparing apples to apples.

I replied to your post on your electric mower. I never dragged your car into the conversation.

"30 years from an ICE mower is not unheard of, but unusual." I find a few every year- "unheard of" only to you.

Lie to yourself all you want, just don't be one of those trying to ban gas.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I'm with you on all the politics we're facing on having EVs crammed down our throats. I know about millions (or was it billions?) of $$ being legislated for chargers and only 4 charger having been built with that money 2 years later.

Hopefully the funds have not been spent.

Our Woke DEI Secretary of Transportation burdened the funds with every woke DEI term ever known. Even has a requirement to hire felons. Only 7 or 8 have been built. That was the limit of how much even Government Farmers (those who harvest government funding) were willing to lie. Who knew there was a limit?

Meanwhile Tesla builds Superchargers with private funds. Has 2329 sites in the USA, most with at least 8 charging stalls, most new with 16-24. 162 more sites are under active construction, and 436 more are known to have leases and construction permits.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Someone brought me a Greeworks mower,,,,,,,battery checked ok, motor was Fried,,,,So sick of these Green new deal people

Greenworks box store mowers are bottom tier.

Greenworks is playing to be OEM to everyone Much the same as whoever it is who has taken over the box store mower business. Many ”brands” of tools are using Greenworks batteries, that is how you can tell.

EGo makes good stuff, albeit in China.

 

[Peva]

I might as well say my car doesn't use any gas just because I'm not driving it right now. It is pretty lame to tell me it is cheaper by ignoring certain costs and not comparing apples to apples.

I replied to your post on your electric mower. I never dragged your car into the conversation.

"30 years from an ICE mower is not unheard of, but unusual." I find a few every year- "unheard of" only to you.

Lie to yourself all you want, just don't be one of those trying to ban gas.

It appears you are viewing me and GrumpyCat as one person.

 

[Peva]

...The ubiquitous 18650 is the standard inside packaged batteries you don’t see. Don’t buy on eBay, most of those are fraudulent, there are reputable online sources. There are multiple vendors offering compatible (so far, inferior) EGo and Greenworks batteries. ...

You may know of the newer 21700 form-factor Li-ion cell - slightly larger package size than 18650 for more manufacturing and price efficiency for more power-intense applications - I think I read that Tesla worked with the battery mfrs. for that.

Probably most if not all (especially commercial grade) electric riders/zero-turns use the 21700 cells. The Ryobis use the 21700 cells, and it is only residential grade.

21700 vs 18650: Behind the Lithium-Ion Battery Cell Battles

Comparing 21700 vs 18650 lithium-ion battery cells, we find cordless power tools benefitting from more power density and better cooling tech.

www.protoolreviews.com

Lithium Battery Cell Models and the Industry Shifts 21700 vs. 18650

Several lithium battery cell models are available, but the two competing head-to-head when it comes to size and capacity are the 21700 vs. 18650 models.

www.epectec.com

Greenworks box store mowers are bottom tier.

Greenworks is playing to be OEM to everyone Much the same as whoever it is who has taken over the box store mower business. Many ”brands” of tools are using Greenworks batteries, that is how you can tell.

EGo makes good stuff, albeit in China.

I know that my Kobalt (Lowes) 80-volt walk behind uses the Greenworks batteries - just different package color, labeling, and socket keying (a known fact on the internet is that you can interchange them just by filing off socket keying details). I will say that those batteries use a particular model of 18650 cells that have unusually high average and peak current capability for longevity and reliability in the application. I'm guessing that any future push mower applications will be using the 21700 (or larger) form-factor cells.

If I were to buy a walk-behind today, it would probably be an EGo. I looked at the EGo zero-turn, but the Ryobi had some advantages from reviews and specs. I looked at. The fact that Ryobi dropped their prices for all models by $2k this Spring made the decision easy for me right when I needed it (though last week, they added back the $2k). Perhaps the EGo just needs another design iteration to top the Ryobi.

EGo has the dual blades (per spindle) on all but their lowest models of pushmowers. I bought the dual-blade set as an option ($42) offered for my Ryobi zero-turn. Dual blades give a significant step up for overall cut and mulching quality and lift without compromising competing lift and mulching performance (my layman opinion). I think they will become an industry-wide standard or option on all but the lowest tier of products.