Do I want a Zero Turn mower?

[vettebob1]

I 'was' looking at a 'garden' type tractor. The reason being is I live in the mountains, so to speak, and my 1/2 acre of mowable area needs a machine that can handle the inclines. In my attempt to measure the slope, using the page in an owners manual, I have just less of 15 degrees mostly with one area that might be the 15 degrees and maybe a tad more. I was told by the John Deere dealer NOTto consider a zero turn mower. He said I needed at least a X320. So for the last week or so I have been investigating Cub Cadet, Sears 'garden' type tractors....due to the heavier duty transmission.
I went to the ExMark dealer who also handles other brands and told him about my incline and he immediately shows me the Zero Turn!!!! I said why are you showing me this? I was told NOT to look at these and I did tell him by whom. He kinda chuckled and said he would not say anything negative about the JD folks. His reasoning sounded legit about why a zero turn. 1) the engine is in the rear which puts the weight where it is needed for inclines. 2) the machine is built with a low center of gravity (the John Deere place was going to put fluid in the tires to keep the center of gravity low?) 3)the driver is in the middle not at the end of the machine.

So what do ya'll think? With my incline is the Zero Turn a good choice? The eXMark is kinda expensive but maybe not that much more than other 'good' ones?
I look forward to the responses.

 

[Black Bart]

Well I'm betting that most people here will tell you that you should buy the tractor but I agree with the X-Mark dealer, If you look at the way a ZTR is made and then a tractor and the ZTR should climb better than a tractor.

15 percent would not be a problem but most will tell you otherwise.

I sure know which I would buy. :laughing:

 

[KennyV]

Hello and Welcome to the LMF....
There have been several comments about ZTR 'stability' on inclines...
I'm going to guess that most of the negative comment is well intended or misinformed advice..
A ztr is very stable on hills and slopes. The problem inherent with ZTR is not from tipping, side to side or at either end. Like you were told, they are very low center of gravity and the better designed ones are very well balanced...
The only real incline concern is when mowing up or down a very steep hill... If you loose engine power, you not only loose steering but also breaking because the hydro pumps are not operating... You will end up at the bottom of the hill.... If there is an abrupt fall off at the bottom, you will have a problem.

MOST lawn areas do not have a cliff at the bottom of any hill... so this is rarely any concern... With your incline you will not have a problem with a ZTR unless your hill terminates at a cliff, in that case I would recommend not mowing or installing a guard rail regardless of mower type...
Watch this video... Ted demonstrates the standards, and when you must use a ZTR in bad conditions...

You should be fine with a ZTR... I will not even speculate further why the JD dealer is trying to move you toward a tractor type... :smile:KennyV

 

[vettebob1]

Hello and Welcome to the LMF....
There have been several comments about ZTR 'stability' on inclines...
I'm going to guess that most of the negative comment is well intended or misinformed advice..
A ztr is very stable on hills and slopes. The problem inherent with ZTR is not from tipping, side to side or at either end. Like you were told, they are very low center of gravity and the better designed ones are very well balanced...
The only real incline concern is when mowing up or down a very steep hill... If you loose engine power, you not only loose steering but also breaking because the hydro pumps are not operating... You will end up at the bottom of the hill.... If there is an abrupt fall off at the bottom, you will have a problem.

MOST lawn areas do not have a cliff at the bottom of any hill... so this is rarely any concern... With your incline you will not have a problem with a ZTR unless your hill terminates at a cliff, in that case I would recommend not mowing or installing a guard rail regardless of mower type...
Watch this video... Ted demonstrates the standards, and when you must use a ZTR in bad conditions...

You should be fine with a ZTR... I will not even speculate further why the JD dealer is trying to move you toward a tractor type... :smile:KennyV

Thanks for the reply. You mentioned "Watch this video".....where is it?

The Zero Turn mower is an eXmark 'Quest'. It seems sturdy?

I guess the 'tractor' folks seem to think I am needing a garden tractor. I have opened up a can of worms?

I guess I need the eXmark person to bring one out here and try it out?

 

[Black Bart]

Hello and Welcome to the LMF....
There have been several comments about ZTR 'stability' on inclines...
I'm going to guess that most of the negative comment is well intended or misinformed advice..
A ztr is very stable on hills and slopes. The problem inherent with ZTR is not from tipping, side to side or at either end. Like you were told, they are very low center of gravity and the better designed ones are very well balanced...
The only real incline concern is when mowing up or down a very steep hill... If you loose engine power, you not only loose steering but also breaking because the hydro pumps are not operating... You will end up at the bottom of the hill.... If there is an abrupt fall off at the bottom, you will have a problem.

MOST lawn areas do not have a cliff at the bottom of any hill... so this is rarely any concern... With your incline you will not have a problem with a ZTR unless your hill terminates at a cliff, in that case I would recommend not mowing or installing a guard rail regardless of mower type...
Watch this video... Ted demonstrates the standards, and when you must use a ZTR in bad conditions...

You should be fine with a ZTR... I will not even speculate further why the JD dealer is trying to move you toward a tractor type... :smile:KennyV

Kenny the Hydro=Gear unit has what is called a dump valve some call it a push valve because you must open it to push the mower.

While it is possible to make the wheels turn it takes a lot of effort and then you can only make it move about a inch the motor can not rotate no place for the fluid to go plus it has a parking brake.

A motor stall on a steep hill with a ZTR would not be nearly as dangerous as a tractor with a conventional gearbox because it only has engine compression to hold it.

Climbing a steep hill can be a problem with anything but a ZTR would not be any worse and better than most anything other than a 4X4.

If the grass is DRY then he should not have a problem with only 15 degrees.

While a ZTR has a much lower center of gravity I would mow up and down rather than sideways.

The secret is make sure it is DRY.

 

[KennyV]

Oops....
sorry, this has been a very bad afternoon...

this is the video link... YouTube - ‪Front Brake System for Zero Turn Mower - Additional Testing‬‏



Hello Bart.. I think the only time someone would have a problem is if they were to panic, like Ted shows in his simulations.... and on 15 degree slopes, I think the wheel motors will as you point out, keep you in a slow, but not controlled decent...
Watch the video, it is interesting... :smile:KennyV

 

[Black Bart]

Oops....
sorry, this has been a very bad afternoon...

this is the video link... YouTube - ‪Front Brake System for Zero Turn Mower - Additional Testing‬‏



Hello Bart.. I think the only time someone would have a problem is if they were to panic, like Ted shows in his simulations.... and on 15 degree slopes, I think the wheel motors will as you point out, keep you in a slow, but not controlled decent...
Watch the video, it is interesting... :smile:KennyV

Kenny thanks for the link to the video I had not seen that and also had not heard of the TED BRAKE

The video does not say what drive system is in that mower but I will assume it is a hydraulic pump and motor because my Grasshopper has 2 pumps and 2 hydraulic motors and it can be towed.

It takes great effort but it would move slowly on a steep hill.

My new John Deere has the hydro gear unit and it has what they call a dump valve some call it a push valve but you raise the seat and turn this valve to allow the fluid to flow so you can move the mower.

That was my bad that I did not mention in my original post what system I was talking about.

Since the video was to sell his TED BRAKE he went out of his way to create a run-away situation but I was impressed with how well that machine would stop turn and climb on what is the maximum recommended hill.

I agree that some people would panic in a situation where the engine would stall.
If it were me and their was NO way to stop it I can guarantee you I Would dive off of that thing and it would make the trip to the bottom without me. :biggrin:

Makes me glad that all of my property is flat as a pool table.
One other thing that should be pointed out is that a tractor is just as likely to stall run out of fuel or break a belt as a ZTR and it would be even worse than being on a ZTR.

If you turned the tractor at speed you risk overturning so in my opinion the ZTR is still the better option much lower center of gravity has a far great portion of it's weight on the drive tires making it better for climbing.
Bottom line is I would prefer something like my new JD ZTrak with the Hydro-Gear unit over a tractor on a hillside but the Ted Brake may be a good option to consider if you have steep hills.

 

[robert]

From page 6 of my 2010 Exmark 'Quest' owners manual:

Under the general comments in the 'slope operation' section: "If you cannot back up the slope or if you feel uneasy on it , Do Not mow it.

The first bullet advisory under this section:

Do Not mow slopes -greater- than 15 degrees.

Now as far as Exmark, purchase with caution, MY Briggs ELS 20 hp is going in for its second starter related warranty repair at under 5 hours on the meter, and the quality of the cut with the 42" deck in heavy grass is not so great AND the ZT2800 drives are simply a consumer transmission, albeit a very high end consumer variant.

My advice, for what it is worth, if you are in the price range of the 'Quest' positively look at the JD 400 series ZT's-yes you will get a Briggs BUT the 'Pro' series engines are NOT classified as the ELS which is the Intek AND Deere seems to have specd some common sense add ons such as the oil cooler and their version of a canister air filter-, if you can go a bit more I would look at the Ferris, IS500 at about $4900 or the Bob Cat Fast Cat Pro, at about $5500-

With your situation, slope operation, I think you need at the very least, an entry level commercial drive-pumps and motors or as a minimum, the ZT3100 which gets you steel gears rather than pressed sintered/powder steel.

I very much regret getting the Exmark Quest and regret even more getting an Exmark-no one cares-the Company or dealer-no one.

Make certain that whatever machine you purchase was stored inside or at the very least outside under cover-next time I special order and pick it up immediately after assembly......

 

[BKBrown]

Obviously, the machine I am about to mention is not for everyone, but if you have slopes and would like a multi-function tractor the Ventrac is a GREAT option. :thumbsup:

www.ventrac.com

 

[robert]

bk, I disagree, the Ventrac IS for everyone-saw one being used for the first time a few weeks ago, impressive to say the least.