post proof of bad ethanol problems

[Carscw]

Ethanol does not cause small engine problems. There I said it. Ethanol is actually a solvent, which in other words is a cleaner. The problem with ethanol is its love for water. Ethanol can absorb up to 1% water before it separates out of the gas. which also lowers the octane of the fuel about 2 octane. The water contains desolved minerals that interact with the water and the ethanol and form a mild acid, similar to vinegar. The vinegar slime, water mix causes corrosion to aluminum and steel parts of engines, and with todays fine tuned, microscopic passage carbs, it takes very little corrosion to cause blockages of those passages.

The people that run large amounts of fuel through there equipment will not see problems with there engines. There is enough fuel exchanged to prevent phase separation, and the cleaning properties of the ethanol actually help remove any deposits that have accumulated. The problem is more pronounced in equipment that sets for periods of time, and I am not even sure that draining the fuel, which will leave a small amount of fuel in the carb, doesn't accelerate the problem in some cases, because of the added oxygen in the fuel due to the ethanol.

Twenty years ago techs such as myself were dealing with adjustable carbs, very little ethanol fuel available. but would see water in carbs, and fuel tanks, which if was allowed to set for a period of time would cause rust of metal parts. what we are seeing now is carbs are white internally, with aluminum oxide corrosion, and they look like the have been setting in an acid bath. The main thing that has changed with fuel over the period of time is the additional availablity of ethanol enriched fuel.

The fuel lines that are being used on most equipment are not designed for continuious exposure to solvents. Try putting a piece of fuel line in carb cleaner for a period of time and see what happens. it will either soften, swell if rubber, or harden and shrink if made from a plastic material.

Thank you sir.

I think now we can put this to rest as you have gave us the facts we have asked for.

You post was easy to read and understand.
Thank you for taking your time and putting this in away we can all understand.

(( cowboy up and get over it ))

 

[djdicetn]

Also rivets I would like a link to that article you were talking about please I am interested in reading it

May not be the same article mentioned by Rivets, but here's an interesing read about the ethanol treatment Briggs developed(and why):

Briggs & Stratton develops ethanol additive

 

[exotion]

Ethanol does not cause small engine problems. There I said it. Ethanol is actually a solvent, which in other words is a cleaner. The problem with ethanol is its love for water. Ethanol can absorb up to 1% water before it separates out of the gas. which also lowers the octane of the fuel about 2 octane. The water contains desolved minerals that interact with the water and the ethanol and form a mild acid, similar to vinegar. The vinegar slime, water mix causes corrosion to aluminum and steel parts of engines, and with todays fine tuned, microscopic passage carbs, it takes very little corrosion to cause blockages of those passages.

The people that run large amounts of fuel through there equipment will not see problems with there engines. There is enough fuel exchanged to prevent phase separation, and the cleaning properties of the ethanol actually help remove any deposits that have accumulated. The problem is more pronounced in equipment that sets for periods of time, and I am not even sure that draining the fuel, which will leave a small amount of fuel in the carb, doesn't accelerate the problem in some cases, because of the added oxygen in the fuel due to the ethanol.

Twenty years ago techs such as myself were dealing with adjustable carbs, very little ethanol fuel available. but would see water in carbs, and fuel tanks, which if was allowed to set for a period of time would cause rust of metal parts. what we are seeing now is carbs are white internally, with aluminum oxide corrosion, and they look like the have been setting in an acid bath. The main thing that has changed with fuel over the period of time is the additional availablity of ethanol enriched fuel.

The fuel lines that are being used on most equipment are not designed for continuious exposure to solvents. Try putting a piece of fuel line in carb cleaner for a period of time and see what happens. it will either soften, swell if rubber, or harden and shrink if made from a plastic material.

This is a good post and definately calls for what I am asking for thank you.

 

[Ric]

May not be the same article mentioned by Rivets, but here's an interesting read about the ethanol treatment Briggs developed(and why):

Briggs & Stratton develops ethanol additive

Good article, I love the part Is Briggs exaggerating? I think like she says it's a house keeping issue :thumbsup:

 

[djdicetn]

Good article, I love the part Is Briggs exaggerating? I think like she says it's a house keeping issue :thumbsup:

Yeah.....but "she" is vice president of technical services for the Renewable Fuels Association(and may be a little "biased towards ethanol" ya think:0). "She" also goes on to say...."failing to use a fuel stabilizer when outdoor power equipment is put in storage for months" is one of the causes of problems....just why would you need that???? You don't need it for non-ethanol.
No homeowner can feasibly protect any stored ethanol fuel from obtaining moisture over time, no matter how good their "housekeeping" is.

 

[jakewells]

No ethanol problems here i only buy 90 octane ethanol free gasoline

 

[Brucebotti]

I just wanted to make an observation about this post. I was amazed at how civil everyone was, especially since this is a controversial topic. That's why I value all the info I get from you guys (and gals). Keep up the great work..:thumbsup:
Bruce

 

[djdicetn]

Another ethanol-bashing comment......have you noticed the increase in the price of meat & dairy products since the proliferation of ethanol gasoline. Information I have gotten from Tennessee farmers that I know is that the competitive pricing for maintaining "corn-fed" stock with the biofuel producers scooping up huge corn crops have filtered down to the price they have to charge to market their products because of increased feed costs. That......2-4mpg less fuel mileage economy, "debatable" adverse affects on fuel systems.....can someone please tell what is GOOD about ethanol???? And don't tell me "environmental benefits"....my 1995 Chevy truck passed emissions testing before ethanol and actually, the only time it failed was with a post-ethanol annual MARTA test to renew the tags(good ole SeaFoam cured that failed test). Also......have you noticed how many "gas treatment products" have come to market over the last few years(since ethanol became widespread) with the intention of helping your vehicle pass the emission tests(what's up with that:0)

 

[chobbs1957]

Another ethanol-bashing comment......have you noticed the increase in the price of meat & dairy products since the proliferation of ethanol gasoline. Information I have gotten from Tennessee farmers that I know is that the competitive pricing for maintaining "corn-fed" stock with the biofuel producers scooping up huge corn crops have filtered down to the price they have to charge to market their products because of increased feed costs.... that:0)

The price pressure that ethanol has put on corn is but one factor in food prices.

• There have been some major crop failures in grains, for example, here last year and abroad sporadically the last few years.
• Increases in the standard of living and growing populations in countries like India and China have increased demand for higher protein foods, specifically meat products.
• Freight costs have gone up over the last 6-8 years as fuel prices have jumped.

I see some blaming ethanol for global warming, too. Ethanol is what they are using as an alternative to MTBE as an oxygenate in the refining of gasoline. I don't pretend to understand all that that means, but they have to add something like to the gas. MTBE is equally effective, but is somehow not as "environmentally friendly" as ethanol.

 

[ghper]

Another ethanol-bashing comment......have you noticed the increase in the price of meat & dairy products since the proliferation of ethanol gasoline. Information I have gotten from Tennessee farmers that I know is that the competitive pricing for maintaining "corn-fed" stock with the biofuel producers scooping up huge corn crops have filtered down to the price they have to charge to market their products because of increased feed costs. That......2-4mpg less fuel mileage economy, "debatable" adverse affects on fuel systems.....can someone please tell what is GOOD about ethanol???? And don't tell me "environmental benefits"....my 1995 Chevy truck passed emissions testing before ethanol and actually, the only time it failed was with a post-ethanol annual MARTA test to renew the tags(good ole SeaFoam cured that failed test). Also......have you noticed how many "gas treatment products" have come to market over the last few years(since ethanol became widespread) with the intention of helping your vehicle pass the emission tests(what's up with that:0)

I live 4 miles from on of those "awful" ethanol plants. I know that more than 50 semi loads of distillers grains come out of that plant daily and go right to the feedlots within 100 miles of the plant. Highly concentrated feed that replaces corn. Ethanol can not be blamed
for everything. My great aunt developed a limp due to ethanol, she tried to kick a gas can that had 10% in it!!!!! I have used nothing but ethanol in my JD 180 with a Kawasaki engine in it that's 30 years old, never drain the tank over winter, and have never had the engine worked on. Same thing with my 2 cycle 25 year old string trimmer. I even had the courage to run it through my rebuilt 72 Nova, NO PROBLEM!!!!