Toro Wheel Horse model 244-5

CajunMan89

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Any idea how to disable all of the safety switches? I took the deck and seat off (seat had a broken switch and the deck wiring was always blowing a fuse anyway). Plus, for the purpose of what I'm using it for, I will only be able to use the clutch, not the break and will have to make a lever to engage the clutch. I have a plywood cab that I will place on the mower to make my project, so the pedals won't be accessible once it it on.

I have tried disabling the seat switch by connecting the bottom two wires together, but apparently, there is another issue....


I completely understand the importance of safety switches, but for what I'm using this old thing for, I simply do not need or want them.
 

reynoldston

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Just rewire the tractor. A on off switch to the kill wire. Just install a Ford style solenoid to the starter with a push button. Simple with no problems.
 

EngineMan

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Thanks for the link, but I already have a copy. I couldn't read those diagrams to save my life!


If you don't understand a wiring diagram there is very little help I can give you now, sorry..!
 

CajunMan89

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If wiring diagrams are confusing, this is going to be way more difficult. Try this troubleshooting procedure. I hate to say this but, this does not work, you'll have to take it to the shop.




Electrical* problems can be very easy or very difficult, depending on four things.
1. * How well you understand basic electricity.
2. *What tools you have and know how to use.
3. *How well you follow directions.
4. *You don't overlook or assume anything and verify everything.

Remember we cannot see what you are doing. *You are our eyes, ears and fingers in solving this problem. *You must be as accurate as you can when you report back. *The two basic tools we will ask you to use are a test light and a multi-meter. *If you have an assistant when going through these tests it would be very helpful. *These steps work the best when done in order, so please don't jump around. *Now let's solve this problem.

First, check the fuse(s), check battery connections for corrosion (clean if necessary) and *voltage - above 12.5 volts should be good.*

Second, check for power from the battery to one of the large terminals on the solenoid. *One of the wires is connected directly to the battery and has power all the time so one of the large terminals should light a test light or show 12 volts on a meter at all times.*

Third, *check for power at the small terminal of the solenoid while depressing the clutch/brake pedal and holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). If your solenoid is a four wire solenoid, check both small wire terminals as one is ground and the other is power from the ignition switch. *If your solenoid is a three wire solenoid, make sure the solenoid body is not corroded where it bolts to the chassis of the mower as this is your ground path back to the battery. *If in doubt, remove the solenoid and clean the mounting area down to bare metal. *If there is no power to the small terminal then your problem is most likely a safety switch, ignition switch or in the wiring.*

Fourth, check for power on the other large terminal of the solenoid while holding the key in the start position (you may need an assistant to sit in the seat to override the safety switch). *If you have power what is the voltage?

Fifth, check for power at the starter while holding the key in the start position (assistant again). *If you have power what is the voltage?

Sixth, check your ground circuit back to the battery.

After you have gone through each of the above steps, let us know what happened when you did each step. *At that point we will have great info to tell you how to proceed. *Remember you are our eyes, ears, and fingers, so please be as accurate as possible.

Be as specific as possible with voltage readings as this will help diagnose your problem quicker. *If you do not know how to perform the above checks, just ask and I will try to guide you through it. *Youtube also has some videos and as you know a picture is worth a thousand words.



I have gone through your suggested steps in troubleshooting the problem. I will try my best to be specific in what I have done with each step.

1) All fuses and connections are good. (except for one that had been removed by the previous owner....I tried installing one, but there are no fuse "prongs" to seat the fuse in) I assume that one was removed because of the faulty PTO blade switch.

The battery is showing 12.78 Volts.

2) My meter is showing 12.77 Volts on the solenoid terminal that connects directly to the battery.

3) My meter is not showing any voltage to the small terminal on the solenoid that is supposed to be energized when the key is turned to the on/crank position.

4) My meter is not showing any power to the other terminal of the solenoid.

5) My meter is not showing power at the terminal that connects to the starter when the key is turned to the on/crank position.

6) my ground circuit back to the battery is good.

SIDE NOTES: The seat safety switch is broken ( One wire was completely pulled out of the black plastic plug-in of the switch. So I twisted the two wires together that come from underneath the tractor to disable it)

I used bricks to depress both the clutch and brake pedals.

If I have the voltage regulator plugged in, I do not get fire to the spark plug. In order for it to fire, I have to unplug it.

I can only crank the mower by jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver. When I touch the terminal on the solenoid that is connected directly to the battery to the small terminal that the blue wire is supposed to connect to in order to energize the solenoid when the ignition it turned to the on/crank position, the engine cranks and starts just fine.

I hope that my steps are detailed and clear.
 

Rivets

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Ok, we now have a place to start. With your limited experience this is going to be slow, but if you have patience and take it slow, we should be able to get to the problem. All voltages we will check should be 12V. A second set of hands will make this easier. First we need to check for voltage at the B terminalon the key switch. Second, we check for voltage at the S teminal of the key switch with the key turned to the start position. If you have voltage at both these terminals we know that the switch is working properly. If no voltage at the S terminal keyswitch is bad. If the switch is good, we now start the hard part. You will have to slowly trace each wire from the switch to the small terminal on the solenoid. Test the voltage at every connection and when you find that you drop voltage you will have found the problem. Remember that you need to go slow and never assume that any wire or part is good until you test it. If you have one, a test light will be easier to use testing each point than a multimeter. Go slow and take breaks when things don't go right. Remember that the cold beer is going to taste great when you find the problem.
 

reynoldston

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Any idea how to disable all of the safety switches? I took the deck and seat off (seat had a broken switch and the deck wiring was always blowing a fuse anyway). Plus, for the purpose of what I'm using it for, I will only be able to use the clutch, not the break and will have to make a lever to engage the clutch. I have a plywood cab that I will place on the mower to make my project, so the pedals won't be accessible once it it on.

I have tried disabling the seat switch by connecting the bottom two wires together, but apparently, there is another issue....


I completely understand the importance of safety switches, but for what I'm using this old thing for, I simply do not need or want them.

Am I missing something here?? It looks like you are striping the tractor so why are you going through all the trouble of trouble shooting and saving everything? If you are removing all the safety switches, this tractor is wired through them. This tractor also has a diagnose light system that is wired into this system that the switches and start system go's to. You will be getting way over your head if you know nothing about electric. This is the reason I said start over and strip out the wires. Just make things simple with a two place on and off switch and two place push button. Are we talking about the same Wheel horse model that I am? Yes you can save all the wiring but you will need to know how to read a wiring diagram because some switch's will say normally on (NO) and some will say normally off (NF) and you will have to know the different. I am getting out of this one seeing you have a lot of helper here and hope you the best of luck.
 
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CajunMan89

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Ok, we now have a place to start. With your limited experience this is going to be slow, but if you have patience and take it slow, we should be able to get to the problem. All voltages we will check should be 12V. A second set of hands will make this easier. First we need to check for voltage at the B terminalon the key switch. Second, we check for voltage at the S teminal of the key switch with the key turned to the start position. If you have voltage at both these terminals we know that the switch is working properly. If no voltage at the S terminal keyswitch is bad. If the switch is good, we now start the hard part. You will have to slowly trace each wire from the switch to the small terminal on the solenoid. Test the voltage at every connection and when you find that you drop voltage you will have found the problem. Remember that you need to go slow and never assume that any wire or part is good until you test it. If you have one, a test light will be easier to use testing each point than a multimeter. Go slow and take breaks when things don't go right. Remember that the cold beer is going to taste great when you find the problem.

I went to test at the ignition's B terminal, but there is no wire there for some reason, and I don't see any evidence that it was pulled out or cut off. It is a 5 prong switch and harness, so I don't know why it would have only 4 wires on it. What should I do next?
 

Rivets

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You should have a wire going between the large terminal on the solenoid where the positive battery wire is connected and the B terminal on the key switch. This wire will supply 12V to start your engine. Going to have to install one.
 

CajunMan89

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You should have a wire going between the large terminal on the solenoid where the positive battery wire is connected and the B terminal on the key switch. This wire will supply 12V to start your engine. Going to have to install one.

What would be the safest way to do this? I have a solderless terminal kit. The ones that fit on the key switch terminals will not fit into the black plastic piece that the other ignition wires are in.


I will attach links to the owners manual as well as the page of the parts manual with the starter and solenoid.

From what I can tell, the red wire connected to the ignition is connected to the Magneto post on the ignition, not the Battery ignition post as the diagram illustrates. Why would it be this way?
 

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Rivets

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Ignition switchs
You are going to have to look at the switch and see if it is the right one for your wiring harness? I suspect someone may have tried the replace it at some point and you don't have the correct one. This is not going to be quick and easy, so have patience. Below you will see a standard ignition switch, it is not the one for your unit, but it will help you understand what I am talking about. I am going to take a closer look at your wiring diagram andparts list and see if I can figure out what is going on. Have nothing to do for the next two hours, so I will try to get back to you this evening. In the mean time, if you have time, can you tell me which wires you have in your plug? The website shows you a picture of the switch I'm talking about.


G= Ground
M= Magneto
S= Starter
L= Lights or Accessories
B= Battery

G terminal will be connected to a good ground.
M terminal will be connected to the wire coming from the coil or magneto.
S terminal will be connected to the wire going to the small terminal on the solenoid.
L terminal will be connected to the lights.
B terminal will be connected to the large terminal on the solenoid, the same terminal which the large cable from the battery is connected.

HUSTLER ELECTRICAL PARTS
 
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