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Is it just me, or are many of todays young adults selfish, self-centered, and unappreciative? My wife is over at my mom-in-laws house today, thery have been planning, preparing for, and paying for a baby shower for my wife's youngest niece for the last two weeks. Three years ago, my wife and MIL paid for and prepared for a bridal shower for the same person, and two years ago many of the family members paid their own expenses to fly to Cancun and stay there because the young couple wanted to be married in this so-called romantic location. Here they are so broke they are living with the guys father, yet they could ask others to fly to Cancun so they could have a wedding there.

My wife told me this morning that neither she, nor my mother in law, nor any other family member involved got a written thank you note for either the bridal shower, or the wedding, and none of the people that gave the couple a gift got a note of appreciation for their thoughtfulness. That was news to me. Well, not really SURPRISING news.

Four years ago, I helped the second youngest niece move about 100 miles to another apartment complex for her job change, in the middle of the winter. Probably worked 20 hours in the bitter weather, provided boxes, moving pads, carts, dollies, put 200 miles on my truck and enclosed utility trailer, guess what? Never even got a word of thanks personally, via email, or a note.

Went to two graduation parties a year and a half ago, distant cousins kids were graduating from high school, drove an hour one way each time, gave each graduate a $100 bill and a very nice personal letter I spend a lot of time composing. Guess what? Never got a word of thanks from either of them.

I used to do semi-pro photography as a sideline, took pics for the wedding I mentioned earlier, put them in an album as a gift to the couple. Never heard a word of thanks. My wife asked me to attend the shower tomorrow to take pictures...do you think I even want to attend?

Selfish, ingrate kids really tick me off. Thanks for listening.

jd this type of stuff gets my blood preasure going i see it all the time i won't say any more except that i know how frustrated you get being around these people my cure was i don't go around i don't call and when they want something im busy thats the only comforntable way for me to deal with them.

Am I selfish, self-centered, and unappreciative? :frown:

CompactTractorFan said:

Am I selfish, self-centered, and unappreciative? :frown:

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Likely not, or I would thump you...:laughing: Notice I said "many" I wasn't saying ALL of the younger folks are the way I portrayed them as being...I do forgive you for hijacking my thread, stealing my LMF MOTM chances, and making fun of my appearing 90 years old, so I guess you are not as bad as the ones I posted about....:biggrin:

I do agree, have some younger relatives of my own that I dont have the time of day for. I also know some young people that are very polite and appreciative of this old phart.....I guess it goes both ways.

poncho62 said:

I do agree, have some younger relatives of my own that I dont have the time of day for. I also know some young people that are very polite and appreciative of this old phart.....I guess it goes both ways.

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My own nieces and nephews are very polite and have great manners...but on my wife's side....cannot believe some of them. The one I spent all that time helping move in the winter, while burning 30 bucks worth of gas...she could have taken 30 seconds to call me or send a text saying she appreciated what I did..but, no. Frickin' unbelievable....:frown:

I am the type of guy who thanks his MAIL CARRIER for bringing a package to my door when it won't fit in my mailbox. Why is it so hard for some people to say "thank you" when someone does something for them?

All valid points -- I don't doubt any of it. However, do you think there has ever been a time or place when the older people in a society didn't disparage the younger ones in a similar fashion?

Two-Stroke said:

do you think there has ever been a time or place when the older people in a society didn't disparage the younger ones in a similar fashion?

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Exactly every generation going back forever... and it will be the same for every generation going in the future...
If you expect thanks for the things that you do ... you are going to most likely be a very disappointed person...
:smile:KennyV

Two-Stroke said:

All valid points -- I don't doubt any of it. However, do you think there has ever been a time or place when the older people in a society didn't disparage the younger ones in a similar fashion?

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I am going to say that younger folks TODAY are more rude, ungrateful, and self-centered than ANY generation have EVER been before.

But THANKS for your comments.....:laughing: You know what I am referring to here, don't you?

JDgreen said:

But THANKS for your comments.....:laughing: You know what I am referring to here, don't you?

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No...... but I think that your assertion may be correct.
I think that our nation is droping into a crevice civilly, socially, ethically, and morally. But as Kenny said every parent has said that about the next generation. That doesn't mean there is not a steady degredation of these principles, however change has always incorporated a different set of values. Our generation relied on our teachers, elders and books for knowledge and insight. This generation has that amount increased exponentially at thier fingertips. I find they(young people) won't listen to my explantions or advice, however if they read the same thing on a webpage...it's gospel.
I realize I'm making a sweeping generalization and I have no idea how old compacttractorfan is, but we are speaking in general terms. I'm sure that JD knows some young people who are very polite and courteaous as do I. It just seems as though they are getting few and far between.
I could go on but I don't want to sound like my partents

Kids are a reflection of their parents.
Don't blame the kids,blame the parents!.

Kinda like "monkey see monkey do" or "one reaps what one sows" :wink:

My 2 c

Well, lemme tell ya, this is why old people and young people don't hang out.

Young people see old people as trying to impose their 'wisdom' on them, asked for or not. Old people, see the young ones as unappreciative of all that's done for them. Whether like JD, much has been given, or if simply allowing them the priviledge of hearing said wisdom.

We are a selfish society. We get told day in, day out, that it's all about us, and if we can get something for nothing, so be it - we deserve it - just because we exist. But, wait........are just the young doing this?

If you indeed were doing what you did selflessly, then it wouldn't make a rat's a-- worth of difference whether you even got noticed. Yes, it'd be nice, but why did you do it? Recognition? How much thanks would be enough? Kneeling and worshipping at your feet? Now, I know that's a real stretch, but I hope you see the point.

If you want something out of giving, is it really giving? If you yourself are so selfless and noble, why does it really matter? Or are you yourself wanting something?

I get so sick of this inter-generational BS. We're all frickin' human. We all have done / will do the same things, in the confines of a different society. Gimme a break.

.....and I could care a less if anyone ever responds to me again. Start a BS thread......I will give you BS back. Only fair.

twall said:

Well, lemme tell ya, this is why old people and young people don't hang out.




If you indeed were doing what you did selflessly, then it wouldn't make a rat's a-- worth of difference whether you even got noticed. Yes, it'd be nice, but why did you do it? Recognition? How much thanks would be enough? Kneeling and worshipping at your feet? Now, I know that's a real stretch, but I hope you see the point.


If you want something out of giving, is it really giving? If you yourself are so selfless and noble, why does it really matter? Or are you yourself wanting something?


I get so sick of this inter-generational BS. We're all frickin' human. We all have done / will do the same things, in the confines of a different society. Gimme a break.

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You have captured it perfectly... +++

And there are some old folks that will try hang out with young people to "relive their youth"... but fortunately, young folks are smart enough not to tolerate too much of this one sided type exposure...:laughing:
I think every 'new' generation will do fine... its worked so far and I'm sure it will continue ... :smile:KennyV

JDgreen said:

I am going to say that younger folks TODAY are more rude, ungrateful, and self-centered than ANY generation have EVER been before.

But THANKS for your comments.....:laughing: You know what I am referring to here, don't you?

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I have no doubt that there are plenty of individuals in the younger generation for whom that's true but I don't believe it's true across the board.

JDgreen said:

Likely not, or I would thump you...:laughing: Notice I said "many" I wasn't saying ALL of the younger folks are the way I portrayed them as being...I do forgive you for hijacking my thread, stealing my LMF MOTM chances, and making fun of my appearing 90 years old, so I guess you are not as bad as the ones I posted about....:biggrin:

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Haha, thanks...:smile:

I think the "entitlement" attitude (you know, "you owe me this") is much more prevalent in the current youth than in any previous generation. I also think that our current government is pushing this attitude and fostering it.

This could have been a fun subject to look at ... but if it MUST turn political ... I'm done, and will keep further thoughts private... :smile:KennyV

twall said:

.....and I could care a less if anyone ever responds to me again. Start a BS thread......I will give you BS back. Only fair.

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Are you saying I started a BS thread? :confused2::confused2:

Pika said:

I think the "entitlement" attitude (you know, "you owe me this") is much more prevalent in the current youth than in any previous generation. I also think that our current government is pushing this attitude and fostering it.

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It is clearly stated by Muhammed that the Front Porch is NOT to be used to discuss politics, and I do not appreciate your bringing such into the thread I started....

Bison said:

Kids are a reflection of their parents.
Don't blame the kids,blame the parents!.

Kinda like "monkey see monkey do" or "one reaps what one sows" :wink:

My 2 c

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Well stated but the weird thing is, the kids on my side of the family and the majority of the ones on my wifes side of the family are well mannered and appreciative, BUT the pair in one family are simply spoiled brats who think the world owes them everything...what baffles me is that their parents tried so hard to raise them properly and set a great example for their kids to follow....:confused2:

JDgreen said:

Well stated but the weird thing is, the kids on my side of the family and the majority of the ones on my wifes side of the family are well mannered and appreciative, BUT the pair in one family are simply spoiled brats who think the world owes them everything...what baffles me is that their parents tried so hard to raise them properly and set a great example for their kids to follow....:confused2:

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My wife and I are the "Younger Generation" (23) and I would have to say we aren't too proud of it. Not saying we are saints, but it seems like we have this weekly conversation with ourselves. Not just about our generation, but even seeing the kids 5 years younger than us.

We live in a small community that I believe has pretty good values and relationships, but it makes my blood boil too when I see what some of the people my age do. I think it is the culture we live in. We worry about having our own kids and if we will raise them properly, because we see some of the best parents have the 'worst' kids. So it seems that setting the best example never guarantees a good turnout. We have come to the conclusion that we just have to give our best effort and whatever happens, happens. You can't make anybody be a good person, it is ultimately their decision, you can just try to point them in the right direction!

Slater said:

My wife and I are the "Younger Generation" (23) and I would have to say we aren't too proud of it. Not saying we are saints, but it seems like we have this weekly conversation with ourselves. Not just about our generation, but even seeing the kids 5 years younger than us.

We live in a small community that I believe has pretty good values and relationships, but it makes my blood boil too when I see what some of the people my age do. I think it is the culture we live in. We worry about having our own kids and if we will raise them properly, because we see some of the best parents have the 'worst' kids. So it seems that setting the best example never guarantees a good turnout. We have come to the conclusion that we just have to give our best effort and whatever happens, happens. You can't make anybody be a good person, it is ultimately their decision, you can just try to point them in the right direction!

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I am nearing 60 and you sound remarkably mature for someone your age...excellent post...:thumbsup:

JDgreen said:

I am nearing 60 and you sound remarkably mature for someone your age...excellent post...:thumbsup:

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Thank you but I think I would have to give credit to my parents for that, couldn't ask for a better family! Maybe I should give credit to my wife too, but she always calls me a kid :laughing:

twall said:

Well, lemme tell ya, this is why old people and young people don't hang out.

Young people see old people as trying to impose their 'wisdom' on them, asked for or not. Old people, see the young ones as unappreciative of all that's done for them. Whether like JD, much has been given, or if simply allowing them the priviledge of hearing said wisdom.

We are a selfish society. We get told day in, day out, that it's all about us, and if we can get something for nothing, so be it - we deserve it - just because we exist. But, wait........are just the young doing this?

If you indeed were doing what you did selflessly, then it wouldn't make a rat's a-- worth of difference whether you even got noticed. Yes, it'd be nice, but why did you do it? Recognition? How much thanks would be enough? Kneeling and worshipping at your feet? Now, I know that's a real stretch, but I hope you see the point.

If you want something out of giving, is it really giving? If you yourself are so selfless and noble, why does it really matter? Or are you yourself wanting something?

I get so sick of this inter-generational BS. We're all frickin' human. We all have done / will do the same things, in the confines of a different society. Gimme a break.

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Twall, let me get this straight...you don't feel the people who do something out of the ordinary for others, be they friends, family, or strangers, deserve ANY appreciation for doing something for others?

Imagine if, you will, there is a severe snowstorm where you live, overnight, and you depart your house 45 minutes early in the morning, to ensure both you and your wife get to work on time. Perhaps you are driving carefully, and well on time to your destinations, when some reckless fool passes you and skids, nearly forcing your car and theirs off the road, but thankfully, only their vehicle goes in the ditch.

Being a nice person, you stop to aid the other driver, and spend 45 minutes in the bitter weather, shoveling them out, pushing, straining your back, getting freezing cold and dirty, and as the motorist finally gets to the shoulder and is able to drive back onto the road, you put your shovel down, your gloves on the trunk of their car, and walk up to their drivers side door, saying "glad to help, and the driver takes off, running over your shovel, your favorite pair of gloves caught on their luggage rack....:frown:

So, you end up getting to work late, cold, wet, exhausted, dirty, your back aching, etc, just because you tried to help someone? How would you feel about the other driver who couldn't even bother to take a few seconds to appreciate your help? BETTER YET, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF IT WAS A FAMILY MEMBER THAT TREATED YOU THAT WAY??

But of course, this is only a BS thread I started..... You don't need to reply.

@Twall
"I get so sick of this inter-generational BS. We're all frickin' human. We all have done / will do the same things, in the confines of a different society. Gimme a break."

I agree with your statement to an extent. We are a VERY selfish society. And you bring up some deep theological questions, but we could go around in circles on those all day. I can be pretty pessimistic too, but lets sit back and have a discussion and not get annoyed because this topic hit a nerve :smile:
Just to look at your very last statement, we are human. That can mean a TON of things, but whether you are a selfish arrogant prick or a selfless good Samaritan, we all desire a form of appreciation. We all need to have a feeling of worth whether you want to admit it or not.

Ex. The person that dedicates their time to help the homeless day in and day out may not ask for anything in exchange, but the moments that they can either see someones life change due to what little impact they may have had, or the satisfaction of sharing a special moment with someone can be all it takes. That person may have not said "thank you" but it is the experience that fulfills that need for the volunteer.
Without any feeling of worth or need to others, people that work in these selfless environments get burned out. This happens all the time. If we didn't need to feel that worth, we could donate all the time in the world for people that don't give a crap and that wouldn't matter to us. But alas, we are human and that is not how we work.

So when it all comes down to it, we are human, we all desire to be needed and all require different levels. This isn't just about inter-generational conflict, this is about the human predicament as a whole. So rather than get frustrated and give up about it, don't worry I do all the time, we can just understand ourselves, what we can do. Simply, I need to be more conscious of when someone does something for me and to thank them. I don't always need to expect a thank you when I do something, but I do know that if I never feel appreciated for what I do, I will just stop and that is not good either.

Stopping my rambling now :biggrin:

Slater....CLAP, CLAP, CLAP....well expressed. :thumbsup:

JDgreen said:

Slater....CLAP, CLAP, CLAP....well expressed. :thumbsup:

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I try, but sometimes my thoughts can be confusing to people. I should always write a disclaimer at the bottom saying that the things I write may not make any sense to others :biggrin:

Selfishness is as old as time itself. To pin it on "many of today's young adults" simply isn't fair. It's not just the youth. It's everybody. We have been fed a steady diet of get want, get - want - over and over, and we're told 'you deserve it'. Too many of us believe this. The youth simply haven't had enough of a life yet to know any better. Not an excuse, the truth - we need a frame of reference that living (or obedience) gives us. I was obedient, and rebelled against it - so sue me. Now, I try to remain polite and civil as a choice based on a frame of reference tempered by time.

They might have been trained up right or wrong, but it's everyone's own responsibility to act in a responsible, decent manner. Sure, we like to be appreciated. But, not everyone is going to appreciate everybody else. Maybe what to you means a great deal means not too much to the next person. So, you took pictures. Maybe the recipient of said pictures didn't know what it means to be a photographer. Maybe they'd rather have had a wad of cash. Maybe, years down the line they'll be grateful for what you did and thank you then. Will it be too late then? We all need instant gratification, too.

As far as us being human, I mean that (not to my knowledge anyhow) we aren't saints. Maybe you stepped on someone else's toes yourself with how you may have acted (or didn't act) To start a thread with the old cliche akin to "......these kids today.......", yes, I think is BS. If you have run into unappreciative brats, I guess that's the rant. I've run into more unappreciative OLD people then young, myself. I tended to work for a lot of them, and I'm related to a bunch of others. Rather than shoot right across the bow of many members of this forum, I didn't start a thread about how I'm really annoyed with the Baby Boomers. Maybe I should, since this kind of thread is fine and dandy.

Just saying, rather than complain about the speck in someone else's eye, perhaps you should make sure you don't have a log in your own, first. I never said take the thread down. I just said it's BS. JD has every right to his opinion, and I also have every right to be annoyed at it.

That's the messy part of freedom.

JDgreen said:

So, you end up getting to work late, cold, wet, exhausted, dirty, your back aching, etc, just because you tried to help someone? How would you feel about the other driver who couldn't even bother to take a few seconds to appreciate your help? BETTER YET, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF IT WAS A FAMILY MEMBER THAT TREATED YOU THAT WAY??

But of course, this is only a BS thread I started..... You don't need to reply.

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To tell you the truth, I wouldn't help, if I was expecting a 'thanks'. That's my point. If you are going to be the good samritan, then be it, and expect nothing. If you are expecting a thanks - well, you've said you're pushing 60 - haven't you noticed all humanity seems to be ungrateful yet? Why just pick on the younger ones? Because you felt hurt? I understand that....but that doesn't mean most, or even many of just the youth are like that. I won't explain my point again. I guess you can be bitter about it......and I'll come right back at you when you post BS about only one group, as if the others are innocent.:wink:

I'll keep replying, too......I'm not like other members who've left when ticked off.......I won't just go away. :biggrin:

twall said:

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't help, if I was expecting a 'thanks'. That's my point. If you are going to be the good samritan, then be it, and expect nothing. If you are expecting a thanks - well, you've said you're pushing 60 - haven't you noticed all humanity seems to be ungrateful yet? Why just pick on the younger ones? Because you felt hurt? I understand that....but that doesn't mean most, or even many of just the youth are like that. I won't explain my point again. I guess you can be bitter about it......and I'll come right back at you when you post BS about only one group, as if the others are innocent.:wink:

I'll keep replying, too......I'm not like other members who've left when ticked off.......I won't just go away. :biggrin:

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I will keep speaking my mind too, just as you are determined to....funny though, that it seems the vast majority of ingrates I meet are in their mid 20's....

Well the vast majority of holier than thou, ungrateful, disrespectful ingrates I'VE met are nearing retirement. :biggrin:

...and they seem to all be on WELFARE, if that tells you how deep the entitlement mentality goes back. But, you're right, just the young kids. Yup. I guess i was wrong.

twall said:

Well the vast majority of holier than thou, ungrateful, disrespectful ingrates I'VE met are nearing retirement. :biggrin:

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NEARING RETIREMENT, HUH? Funny, I have been retired for going on 9 years now, after working since age 18 at numerous jobs. Full pension, full medical benefits, 35 grand a year to do whatever I want whenever I want. Three more years and Social Security kicks in and our mortgage has been paid off for three years now.

LIFE IS GOOD....:biggrin::thumbsup:

twall said:

...and they seem to all be on WELFARE, if that tells you how deep the entitlement mentality goes back. But, you're right, just the young kids. Yup. I guess i was wrong.

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Welfare, huh? Funny, I worked for the state Dept of Human Services (welfare dept) here for 32 years. I can tell you folks a lot of things about welfare that ain't so pretty, but despite the abuses there are a lot of people who deservingly collect their benefits. Glad I ain't one of them. :biggrin:

JDgreen said:

Welfare, huh? Funny, I worked for the state Dept of Human Services (welfare dept) here for 32 years. I can tell you folks a lot of things about welfare that ain't so pretty, but despite the abuses there are a lot of people who deservingly collect their benefits. Glad I ain't one of them. :biggrin:

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.....AND drive truck? AND 'work with your hands' as you said once to me? Full life indeed! :biggrin:Okay, I give you that - some people are in need of assistance. I was on Food Stamps once.....and I never felt like I deserved a red cent of it! There is a difference, unless you're retired, then I guess your point of view is the only valid one.....:smile:

twall said:

...and they seem to all be on WELFARE, if that tells you how deep the entitlement mentality goes back. But, you're right, just the young kids. Yup. I guess i was wrong.

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My welfare Caddy....

Well, been fun, JD......because I'm not retired, and I've spent way too much time already on this forum in large chunks, to be told I'm a yahoo whose cohorts in the same age group are nuthing but ingrates (to use your same broad brushes), I will take leave for now. I'm not going anywhere permanently, just for the night.

'Cause I do have other things I'd rather do right this moment than fight with you. Although I will be glad to take this up tomorrow, for a short time.

:goodnight:

twall said:

.....AND drive truck? AND 'work with your hands' as you said once to me? Full life indeed! :biggrin:Okay, I give you that - some people are in need of assistance. I was on Food Stamps once.....and I never felt like I deserved a red cent of it! There is a difference, unless you're retired, then I guess your point of view is the only valid one.....:smile:

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Twall, my main job was termed "carpenter" but I worked in many different classifications, drove commercial straight trucks up to 25 tons gross weight, delivery, warehousing, shipping and receiving, facilities planning, move and repair copy machines, plan, deliver modify, and install movable office systems, electrical and drywall, general carpentry, emergency services coordinator, building management, I ALSO worked at over 200 various locations around the state of Michigan, was on call some of the week, traveled extensvely, was entrusted with keys and security codes for buildings all over Michigan, had responsibility at times for delivery of up to half a million dollars worth of new servers. and much of my career I had to supervise and direct the work of public assistance clients who were directed to "work off" part of their public assistance benefits at numerous offices. I do not claim to know a lot about public assistance but I DID meet hundreds of clients and knew THOUSANDS of people in my department over my 32 year career. I didn't sit in front of a computer or talk to people over the phone I went out and met them and worked with them. Okay?

I have noticed that the newer generation is very unappreciative. I on the other hand, paid for my own wedding myself. I also bought the dresses and suits for my bridal party, etc. It took me a few years to do it, but it got done. We also did potluck for the meal.

I personally thanked everyone for helping.

JDgreen said:

Well stated but the weird thing is, the kids on my side of the family and the majority of the ones on my wifes side of the family are well mannered and appreciative, BUT the pair in one family are simply spoiled brats who think the world owes them everything...what baffles me is that their parents tried so hard to raise them properly and set a great example for their kids to follow....:confused2:

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I think that says enough 'doesn't it?.
Parents at fault,maybe non intentionally but at fault nonetheless :wink:

twall said:

Well, lemme tell ya, this is why old people and young people don't hang out.

Young people see old people as trying to impose their 'wisdom' on them, asked for or not. Old people, see the young ones as unappreciative of all that's done for them. Whether like JD, much has been given, or if simply allowing them the priviledge of hearing said wisdom.

We are a selfish society. We get told day in, day out, that it's all about us, and if we can get something for nothing, so be it - we deserve it - just because we exist. But, wait........are just the young doing this?

If you indeed were doing what you did selflessly, then it wouldn't make a rat's a-- worth of difference whether you even got noticed. Yes, it'd be nice, but why did you do it? Recognition? How much thanks would be enough? Kneeling and worshipping at your feet? Now, I know that's a real stretch, but I hope you see the point.

If you want something out of giving, is it really giving? If you yourself are so selfless and noble, why does it really matter? Or are you yourself wanting something?

I get so sick of this inter-generational BS. We're all frickin' human. We all have done / will do the same things, in the confines of a different society. Gimme a break.

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It's all about respect.
Respect for your elders.
Respect for some ones sacrefices so you can live the way you do.
Respect for nature and what it provides

Respect is what a lot of todays people no longer seem to have,young or not so young.

I'm big on thanking people myself and I expect people to show due gratitude when I do anything for them. It's just how I was brought up and I'm past retirement. I think it's thoughtlessness personally. Young members of my family are good people and will do anything for you but sometimes they are so caught up in their own little world, they "forget" to express what they feel when you do them a favour, but they are always available if a favour is required of them.

UPDATE HERE:

Nearly two weeks after the bridal shower for the young woman, who. along with her husband, received over $2500 worth of gifts, plus there was another $900 involved in invitations, food, hall rental, etc....well, so far NOBODY involved has been given any type of thank you, except for a generic "Thanks to all" on their Facebook page. All that time and work and expense involved by my wife and mom in law, plus all the generous gifts by the other attendees, and the couple's method of showing appreciation is a line on their Facebook page. WHAT A SURPRISE. I guess my 81 year old mother in law needs to be on Facebook to learn her work was appreciated. Seems to me if all the relatives and guests could take the time to shop for, and wrap gifts, and attend the shower, the VERY LEAST the cheapskate, ingrate couple could do is take a few minutes and write a note, affix a stamp, and thank people properly. But of course, many of today's younger people don't bother doing those kind of things. SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE INGRATES. I wonder why anybody does ANYTHING for people like them...

I'll try to make this short. :smile:

The winter a year ago, we had 2 snowfalls of 20" & 24" (we are talking about an area where people panic at 1/2"). We are on a "last serviced" State Road. I did 9 LONG driveways and 1/2 mile to the main road with my Ventrac snowblower.
Thank You, Gift Cards, Gas for Tractor, etc. from ALL -
EXCEPTone neighbor girl
(in her 20s with 2 kids by different fathers and not married - living in Daddy's house) I had pulled her car out of ditches 2 times and her "boy friend" 2 times (he said thanks). Not one word of thanks or even a hello when I saw her. :thumbdown:
Daddy has moved out and is letting her and the 2 kids stay in his house. Guess who isn't going to make the effort for her next time ? I might make one path so she could walk out, but not wide enough for the car with bald tires.

OK - Rant over -- Dad to this girl is a great guy & Vietnam Vet - If I know he is coming home I'll do it for him. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

Slater said:

@Twall...you bring up some deep theological questions

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I don't think anyone can accuse twall of being "theological" :biggrin:

Bison said:

It's all about respect.
Respect for your elders.
Respect for some ones sacrefices so you can live the way you do.
Respect for nature and what it provides

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Yes - very true. I would add:

- Respect for people's opinions, even when you don't agree with them .
- Ability to respectfully offer a counter-opinion.


ok, my $.02 (plus tax). Smartaleck nailed it. Kids (from EVERY generation) are self-absorbed and caught up in their own little world. They are SELFISH. It's just part of nature and has been since the dawn of time. You'll occasionally find some who are not. They are freaks of nature :wink:

I shudder to think how selfish I was when I was younger. I wish I could find every person I knew prior to my 30's and offer a blanket apology for my thoughtlessness. I consider myself very appreciative now - I'll go out of my way to help others and to let them know I appreciate it when they do the same. It all comes with age. And I've got age coming out of my butt. (seriously - it's tough to hold back at this point)

So JD was right. Today's generation is a bunch of unappreciative little brats. And so was yesterday's, and the one before that....

BKBrown said:

I'll try to make this short. :smile:

The winter a year ago, we had 2 snowfalls of 20" & 24" (we are talking about an area where people panic at 1/2"). We are on a "last serviced" State Road. I did 9 LONG driveways and 1/2 mile to the main road with my Ventrac snowblower.
Thank You, Gift Cards, Gas for Tractor, etc. from ALL -
EXCEPTone neighbor girl
(in her 20s with 2 kids by different fathers and not married - living in Daddy's house) I had pulled her car out of ditches 2 times and her "boy friend" 2 times (he said thanks). Not one word of thanks or even a hello when I saw her. :thumbdown:
Daddy has moved out and is letting her and the 2 kids stay in his house. Guess who isn't going to make the effort for her next time ? I might make one path so she could walk out, but not wide enough for the car with bald tires.

OK - Rant over -- Dad to this girl is a great guy & Vietnam Vet - If I know he is coming home I'll do it for him. :biggrin: :thumbsup:

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I got the feeling early on here at LMF you were the type of guy who helps his neighbors, great for you to do that...but believe me, if I clear one driveway without a thanks from someone new around here I will not return to help. And if the girl you spoke of didn't thank me for getting her unstuck the first time I wouldn't help a second...maybe throw her change for a pay phone...:laughing:

My neighbors that I help tell me thanks in person or send me a text letting me know my help was appreciated...I don't expect anything more than that but to IGNORE someone's good deeds, like those my wife and MIL performed, are a real insult.

mystreba said:

Yes - very true. I would add:

- Respect for people's opinions, even when you don't agree with them .
- Ability to respectfully offer a counter-opinion.


ok, my $.02 (plus tax). Smartaleck nailed it. Kids (from EVERY generation) are self-absorbed and caught up in their own little world. They are SELFISH. It's just part of nature and has been since the dawn of time. You'll occasionally find some who are not. They are freaks of nature :wink:

I shudder to think how selfish I was when I was younger. I wish I could find every person I knew prior to my 30's and offer a blanket apology for my thoughtlessness. I consider myself very appreciative now - I'll go out of my way to help others and to let them know I appreciate it when they do the same. It all comes with age. And I've got age coming out of my butt. (seriously - it's tough to hold back at this point)

So JD was right. Today's generation is a bunch of unappreciative little brats. And so was yesterday's, and the one before that....

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You say "kids"...maybe so they are, but the young adults in their middle 20's to early 30's are old enough to know a LOT BETTER than to take things for granted. My wife and I were in our early 40's when we married back in 1990. Every single person who attended the bridal showers and our wedding got a personal, hand written thank you note from us within one week of either event, whether they gave us a gift or not. It's just the way we were raised. NO EXCUSE for anyone over 20 years of age not to be as appreciative. NONE.

JDgreen said:

You say "kids"...maybe so they are, but the young adults in their middle 20's to early 30's are old enough to know a LOT BETTER than to take things for granted. My wife and I were in our early 40's when we married back in 1990. Every single person who attended the bridal showers and our wedding got a personal, hand written thank you note from us within one week of either event, whether they gave us a gift or not. It's just the way we were raised. NO EXCUSE for anyone over 20 years of age not to be as appreciative. NONE.

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Of course, at 40 years old you would send thank-you cards out. That's to be expected.

There may be some differences in this thread about what is meant by "kids". I generally think of someone in their 20's as a kid. Certainly there are exceptionally mature and thoughtful 20-somethings, but for the most part they're self-absorbed and clueless about their connection to - or impact on - the world around them.

I was just starting to take my head out of my arse at 30, and I don't think I was alone there. (I mean that in a general sense - I don't mean there were a bunch of people with their heads up my arse) Well maybe there were - who knows, I wouldn't have noticed since I was completely clueless.

My older kids are very mature and respectful. But there is even a difference between the 29 and 27 year old in terms of their awareness of others. Mostly my 27-year old is very appreciative, and he doesn't ever intentionally act unappreciative, but I think sometimes he's just so self-absorbed in whatever he's doing that he doesn't have a clue what's going on around him. From my perspective that's not unusual, and it's not unique to this generation.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that!

First off, I'm sorry, but respect to me is earned, not just given because someone happened to be born before I was. I respect some 'younger' people more than 'older' ones. Depends on how they treat me, versus respect by default.

Next, the elephant in the room in this debate is how these 'kids' were brought up (as far as the society). 25 Years ago was 1986. When these kids graduated, it was 2004. During this time, they were fed a steady diet of computers and video games. Their parents were probably online as far back as they can remember. Impersonal, cold electronics were seen as 'interaction'. Although we as adults understand there's a person on the other end of the computer terminal, it may not be the same understading for a kid. An email, text, tweet, or a FB status may have a lot more meaning to them than to someone older.

Who even USES the mail these days? Anymore, many of us use it only to send/recieve stuff from ebay. I can't remember the last time I sent a card in the mail to anyone! If you think I'm wrong here, just look at the financial state of the USPS...........

mystreba said:

Of course, at 40 years old you would send thank-you cards out. That's to be expected.

There may be some differences in this thread about what is meant by "kids". I generally think of someone in their 20's as a kid. Certainly there are exceptionally mature and thoughtful 20-somethings, but for the most part they're self-absorbed and clueless about their connection to - or impact on - the world around them.

I was just starting to take my head out of my arse at 30, and I don't think I was alone there. (I mean that in a general sense - I don't mean there were a bunch of people with their heads up my arse) Well maybe there were - who knows, I wouldn't have noticed since I was completely clueless.

My older kids are very mature and respectful. But there is even a difference between the 29 and 27 year old in terms of their awareness of others. Mostly my 27-year old is very appreciative, and he doesn't ever intentionally act unappreciative, but I think sometimes he's just so self-absorbed in whatever he's doing that he doesn't have a clue what's going on around him. From my perspective that's not unusual, and it's not unique to this generation.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that!

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EXCELLENT POST...loved the part about "taking your head out of my arse at age 30" :laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbsup:

The real reason I helped (pulled her out) was because she was stuck in her father's driveway and blocking him from getting in and out (at the time he was in a wheel chair from surgery on legs) I felt he needed to be able to get in and out as well as his nurse and therapist. I did not expect thanks from anyone or gift cards or gas. It was her attitude of a snub (not even hello) and no attempt at a thanks that bothered me. Robbie (her dad) thanked me many times over and offered pay which I refused. I understand her Mom was that way and why Robbie is no longer married to her.

JDgreen said:

I got the feeling early on here at LMF you were the type of guy who helps his neighbors, great for you to do that...but believe me, if I clear one driveway without a thanks from someone new around here I will not return to help. And if the girl you spoke of didn't thank me for getting her unstuck the first time I wouldn't help a second...maybe throw her change for a pay phone...:laughing:

My neighbors that I help tell me thanks in person or send me a text letting me know my help was appreciated...I don't expect anything more than that but to IGNORE someone's good deeds, like those my wife and MIL performed, are a real insult.

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twall said:

First off, I'm sorry, but respect to me is earned, not just given because someone happened to be born before I was. I respect some 'younger' people more than 'older' ones. Depends on how they treat me, versus respect by default.

Next, the elephant in the room in this debate is how these 'kids' were brought up (as far as the society). 25 Years ago was 1986. When these kids graduated, it was 2004. During this time, they were fed a steady diet of computers and video games. Their parents were probably online as far back as they can remember. Impersonal, cold electronics were seen as 'interaction'. Although we as adults understand there's a person on the other end of the computer terminal, it may not be the same understading for a kid. An email, text, tweet, or a FB status may have a lot more meaning to them than to someone older.

Who even USES the mail these days? Anymore, many of us use it only to send/recieve stuff from ebay. I can't remember the last time I sent a card in the mail to anyone! If you think I'm wrong here, just look at the financial state of the USPS...........

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I am not talking about RESPECT, just appreciation that is well deserved for doing something for someone. The young lady who was given the bridal shower came to us and ASKED my wife if she would host her the bridal shower. My wife happens to be her closest living female relative, outside of her mother, who will have nothing to do with her daughter, and her older sister, who could have given the shower but begged off as she was "too busy" although being currently jobless which is her own fault. It's a pretty sad state of affairs if people think texting or tweeting or FB posts are an excuse for common sense and old fashioned courtesy. You wanna spar...fine with me. :laughing:

JDgreen said:

I am not talking about RESPECT, just appreciation that is well deserved for doing something for someone. The young lady who was given the bridal shower came to us and ASKED my wife if she would host her the bridal shower. My wife happens to be her closest living female relative, outside of her mother, who will have nothing to do with her daughter, and her older sister, who could have given the shower but begged off as she was "too busy" although being currently jobless which is her own fault. It's a pretty sad state of affairs if people think texting or tweeting or FB posts are an excuse for common sense and old fashioned courtesy. You wanna spar...fine with me. :laughing:

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Although YOU didn't talk about respect, there are several other posts here recently that DID.

The fact that this girl's mother won't have anything to do with her would've been a tip-off for me.

And, lastly, as I have said over and over.......we are on the other end of this society - we know about when it wasn't like this. But, these kids don't - and that's not an excuse, it's simply the truth. Do you expect them to really know better? Or simply know better vicariously through you?

twall said:

Next, the elephant in the room in this debate is how these 'kids' were brought up (as far as the society). 25 Years ago was 1986. When these kids graduated, it was 2004. During this time, they were fed a steady diet of computers and video games. Their parents were probably online as far back as they can remember. Impersonal, cold electronics were seen as 'interaction'. Although we as adults understand there's a person on the other end of the computer terminal, it may not be the same understading for a kid. An email, text, tweet, or a FB status may have a lot more meaning to them than to someone older.

Who even USES the mail these days? Anymore, many of us use it only to send/recieve stuff from ebay. I can't remember the last time I sent a card in the mail to anyone! If you think I'm wrong here, just look at the financial state of the USPS...........

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There's truth to this. I homeschool my kids and find that kids in the homeschool community do in fact still send cards and thank-you notes, but they're the exception. They do it because one of their parents is always there to show them when and how. But in this technological age we shouldn't expect hand-written thank-you notes for everything. But we can and should still expect some expression of appreciation. Most kids have access to a phone - heck my youngest have nicer cell phones than I do. There is no excuse for not expressing some form of appreciation when someone does something for you. On that point I agree with JD. I also agree that when someone withholds appreciation, an appropriate reaction is to then withhold generosity in the future. That's one of the ways kids learn over time.

Well, I hate to leave you all sittin' here on the Front Porch, but my wife just told me she'd APPRECIATE it if I would get up off my lazy butt and install wider doors on my shed so I can get my tractor in there and she can reclaim the garage. (never mind hand-written notes - I just received that little bit of "appreciation" on the business end of a snarl and a clenched fist!)

twall said:

Although YOU didn't talk about respect, there are several other posts here recently that DID.

The fact that this girl's mother won't have anything to do with her would've been a tip-off for me.

And, lastly, as I have said over and over.......we are on the other end of this society - we know about when it wasn't like this. But, these kids don't - and that's not an excuse, it's simply the truth. Do you expect them to really know better? Or simply know better vicariously through you?

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Actually the girl's MOTHER was whoring around big time when still married to the father...but that is another story...my wife is a very giving, and generous person, I had a feeling the girl was just going to be a real ingrateful bitch but I didn't say that at the time.

JDgreen said:

...I had a feeling the girl was just going to be a real ingrateful bitch but I didn't say that at the time.

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Maybe you should have! :smile:

Alright, JD....you said you wanna spar, right? :biggrin:

I have something I'd like to get off my chest. It's bugged me for 15 years or so. This is the place to do it. Since half the forum hates my guts anyhow because of this thread, I might as well stop holding back.

I am so sick to death of the Baby Boomers. All my frickin life all I've ever heard is "WE did this and WE did that, and all the good things on this Earth are thanks to us, and all the bad things are someone else's fault". You can deny it, but I'VE seen it and noticed it, and remember it all my whole stinkin existence. Whether my teachers, coworkers, TV, Radio, etc., etc., etc., It's all about the Boomers. Except when there is a problem. Then, it's our fault, or the WWII gen's fault. ENOUGH ALREADY.

Each and every generation has its good and bad contributions to society. To take all the credit, and dodge any blame is simply irresponsible and tacky as hell IMHO. I am sick to death of it. It was the BOOMERS that introduced drugs, sexuality, open lust for money, and a host of other things into the light of everyday life. "We didn't start the fire" is sure right.....but you made sure everybody knew every rotten thing that has been going on since time immorium. Instead of taking care of the newly-opened up can of worms, society viewed them as norms all of a sudden. They weren't things to be kept quiet, and be ashamed of, they were in the full light of day, and they haven't gotten any better at all. instead, they just get more press.

As far as the kids, the Boomers gave birth to the Gen X'ers. (probably in reference to 'brand x' - never the equal to the ever-famous Baby Boomers.....just a cheap knock off) We Struggled for decades under the weight of your expectations. We really tried to be what you wanted. But, since we failed before we even began (NOBODY could do as much as the BOOMERS, right?), your tossing aside of my entire age group is sickening. WE ARE NOT YOU - GET OVER IT! You expected us to carry the torch, and when we tried, and didn't hold it right - you just threw up your hands in disgust and wondered why we just didn't care. The Apathetic Ones.......yes, we are. We can never do anything right - so why stress about it another minute?

So, we had children. They grew up (those of us that tried too early the sexuality that was so blazenly shoved in front of our faces) in homes without fathers. In homes where mothers hated men because they were not there. It's all okay, right? We can talk about it now, because it's in the open. How's that working out? We have a bunch of 20-somethings that don't know what a family is. Blame them, fine. Blame us, fine again. But, I blame YOU, boomers. Just as your generation blamed your fathers.....and they blamed theirs......on and on to Adam and Eve. Each society makes the rules for the next. On and on......

So, there it is my complaint with old people. You can be staunch about how it's all our fault, and I will say look in the frickin mirror every g-----ed time. The boomers are innocent - B frickin S! I know this p---es off half (or many more) the forum. I don't care! (I am from the Apathy Generation - remember? one of the plethora of names you've labeled us with) I already stated that at the beginning. Why now? Because this thread just won't die. I also, won't just let it be.

What we have today is just as much the Boomers fault as anyones. They didn't start the fire, but they added plenty of gas to it..........

AWWWW, come on.....doesn't that broad brush paint as well the other way (now I've freshly loaded it)? Y'all were chomping at the bit to run down young people for acting young.........

I don't see anyone YET to defend my "right to vent"............oh, but that's because I am NOT SUPPOSED TO, right? I hope in your Baby Boomer hypocrisy, this thread dies because of my rant. Otherwise, I have 15 years of this stuff bottled up....and it's fermented well.........:biggrin:

Hey Twall, I know exactly where you are coming from, because odds are, the half of the LMF members that don't hate your guts hate MINE instead, because I started this thread and won't let it die. Well if I didn't know better I'd swear you were older because you make such a good argument of your side of things and you are remarkably mature compared to many others I know near my age. You remind me of my cop neighbor who is remarkably level headed. He is 32 but if I met him online I'd guess he was 20 years older. Perhaps I should apologize if you feel I am lumping all the people in your generation together as selfish ingrates and I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. I can tolerate many things but NOT INGRATITUDE. I don't expect much in return for favors or gifts but it rankles me like all get out when people take my help for granted. My wife spent 2 weeks pay and 3 weekends of her time paying for and preparing that baby shower and her selfish ingrate niece can't even get off her butt for 30 seconds to call my wife and thank her or spend a buck for a card and spring for a stamp and take five minutes to mail it. That really ticks me off. My wife would do the same for my niece if I asked, the difference is my niece would take the time to express her appreciation but in case she didn't I'd give her pure hell. Again sorry if I said all today's younger generation are selfish and unappreciative. Sent from mobile.

JD -

In the case of the girl (not even young woman - girl) you refer to, I concur wholeheartedly, and those of her ilk are nuicances to society.

It's just the way you started this thread, (don't apologize) probably in the heat of hurt. I understand that. It's like someone who gets mugged by a "person of color" in NYC, and says racist things out of the hurt, even though he didn't really mean it quite the way he said it.

I just take offence to broad brushes. I used one in that large rant above (to show how it feels the other way), just because it was being used here and there in this thread. "With a few exceptions they all seem to be _____. (add your BS here)"

I know why you did it, and although no apology is needed, it's accepted. Let's just let this thing go, okay? Like I said, I have a lot of strong stuff to say the other way on this, and I don't really wanna use it. People have treated me different, though it seems, since we had this joust. Maybe they assumed I was older, as well.

Look at Murry Furry. Until he let on to his age, I thought him to be in his 30's. Then, he told us (pretty much) his age, and got ribbed, and left.....and that's an absolute crying shame.

It's sad that generation has to divide us so.......since we all obviously have a common interest. :frown:

From the youngest member here, to the oldest, we all love lawn mowers. Let's get back to that - and forget that we are of different generations.

The process of taking my "head out my arse" involved a lot of things, but without question - hands-down, no debate about it - the single most life-changing event was suddenly recognizing that I alone was responsible for everything in my life, and subsequently taking 100% ownership of every aspect of my situation no matter how much it sucked.

twall, cut the "everybody hates me" crap. It's just a discussion based on one person's opinion.

Hey, isn't this The Front Porch? All opinions are worthy of consideration and respectful debate. If you don't like to debate and only want to talk about lawn mowers, that's cool. But this isn't the forum for that.

Thanks to all for listening to my rant, and I appreciate the input from everyone here...I truthfully do not have many good friends in life, so I guess I was using this forum to vent my displeasure to those I felt a connection to. So I will let the issue drop...I PROMISE not to post here again about the subject at hand. Muhammed, will you please remove the thread?

And thanks again, you are collectively a wonderful (well, MOST of you :laughing::laughing group....:thumbsup:

JDgreen said:

Thanks to all for listening to my rant, and I appreciate the input from everyone here...I truthfully do not have many good friends in life, so I guess I was using this forum to vent my displeasure to those I felt a connection to. So I will let the issue drop...I PROMISE not to post here again about the subject at hand. Muhammed, will you please remove the thread?

And thanks again, you are collectively a wonderful (well, MOST of you :laughing::laughing group....:thumbsup:

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I am pretty sure that Muhammad will not remove the thread - it is a legitimate use of the forum. What other purpose would this "Front Porch" forum have? Post away my friend.

mystreba said:

.......twall, cut the "everybody hates me" crap. It's just a discussion based on one person's opinion.

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I WILL NOT. Which, BTW, "one person" are we talking about? JD's? And those who agree with him? Whatever. People used to respond to my threads, now everybody acts like I'm yelling at them. No matter what the forum. So stop being patronizing. :tongue:

JD - thanks for agreeing to let this die. This will be my last post as well in this thread (as long as JD holds to it.....:wink

Last post in this forum, just wanted to hit 1500 today. Sent from mobile.

JDgreen said:

Last post in this forum, just wanted to hit 1500 today. Sent from mobile.

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"If JD holds to it" - he said.....

And I am the one worried about my postcount? :laughing: Hell of a place to put it, man.......:laughing:

Seems like just yesterday you started a thread about hitting 1000......wait....it wasn't yesterday, was it? :wink:

JDgreen said:

Last post in this forum, just wanted to hit 1500 today. Sent from mobile.

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twall said:

"If JD holds to it" - he said.....

And I am the one worried about my postcount? :laughing: Hell of a place to put it, man.......:laughing:

Seems like just yesterday you started a thread about hitting 1000......wait....it wasn't yesterday, was it? :wink:

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Oh for crissakes.:confused2: As I always say around the house here: "f#%^$in kids".

They are young and this is their decision. My daughter is getting married and she is in love. Now her biggest concern is choosing a wedding dress.

If I ever get married again I'll probably wear a pair of green pants and yellow shirt to match the paint on my John Deere mower that we'll take on our honeymoon.

tom3 said:

If I ever get married again I'll probably wear a pair of green pants and yellow shirt to match the paint on my John Deere mower that we'll take on our honeymoon.

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can I be invited?
to the wedding that is... I have a nice Cub Cadet Yellow and Blue 3 piece suit

JDgreen said:

Is it just me, or are many of todays young adults selfish, self-centered, and unappreciative? My wife is over at my mom-in-laws house today, thery have been planning, preparing for, and paying for a baby shower for my wife's youngest niece for the last two weeks. Three years ago, my wife and MIL paid for and prepared for a bridal shower for the same person, and two years ago many of the family members paid their own expenses to fly to Cancun and stay there because the young couple wanted to be married in this so-called romantic location. Here they are so broke they are living with the guys father, yet they could ask others to fly to Cancun so they could have a wedding there.

My wife told me this morning that neither she, nor my mother in law, nor any other family member involved got a written thank you note for either the bridal shower, or the wedding, and none of the people that gave the couple a gift got a note of appreciation for their thoughtfulness. That was news to me. Well, not really SURPRISING news.

Four years ago, I helped the second youngest niece move about 100 miles to another apartment complex for her job change, in the middle of the winter. Probably worked 20 hours in the bitter weather, provided boxes, moving pads, carts, dollies, put 200 miles on my truck and enclosed utility trailer, guess what? Never even got a word of thanks personally, via email, or a note.

Went to two graduation parties a year and a half ago, distant cousins kids were graduating from high school, drove an hour one way each time, gave each graduate a $100 bill and a very nice personal letter I spend a lot of time composing. Guess what? Never got a word of thanks from either of them.

I used to do semi-pro photography as a sideline, took pics for the wedding I mentioned earlier, put them in an album as a gift to the couple. Never heard a word of thanks. My wife asked me to attend the shower tomorrow to take pictures...do you think I even want to attend?

Selfish, ingrate kids really tick me off. Thanks for listening.

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Dude..... Many moons ago, my ex's middle kid got caught steeling, went to jail and finally got out after about 6 months. Since then, he's been on probation. I let him move in, since I was married to his mom and he didn't have any place else to go. Even though I DESPISE liars and thieves. And druggies.
Well it didn't take too long for me to kick him out for disrespecting me and his mom.
Fast forward a few years. Me and his mom are divorced, but still sociable. When I found this shop, there was no place for me to live so she let me shack up with her.
And in return, I gave the boy (32yr old) a job with me. about 3 weeks go by and a catch him out in the garage, stoned out of his skull, with a bag of meth lying in front of him. So I fired him. The thought of him wrecking my truck, with a customers mower on the back, while he had that crap in his system, was too much.
So after 3 weeks, and the boy still wasn't working, was still not cleaning his room or picking up his mess in the restroom, I tell his mom, "You're either going to force him to get help, force him to move out, or I'm leaving. Period. End of story."
I ended up leaving.
A month later, she's telling me that she's fed up with the son and that she's laid down the law to him, (after like the 10th time since I've known them) and wants me to move back in. Well, considering the motel bill is about $1000 a month, I thought I could move back in, save enough to get me a travel trailer soon enough.
Well the kid did finally have a job and was helping out around the house more. But I was working from about 7am til like 9pm. By the time I got home, I wasn't to do chores. Especially when those same chores was on his list to do. You know, like feed, water and walk the dogs, mow the yard, etc etc etc.
Well after about a month of that routine, the mom starts harping on me for not doing enough. Come to find out, the boy was trying to get back into his old lazy ways, and was complaining to his mom about me not helping him. So, one night I get home, about 9pm, to find my stuff sitting out on the front porch.

Moral of the story, some parents suck at raising kids. He'll talk down to her. Cuss her. and pretty much break every rule she comes up with, until she's about to blow her top. But then he'll do a little something around the house, and it's like she forgets all about the crap he did before. And there's a TON of grown kids (from their mid 20's to their 40's) that act like this. And their moms (and some dads) just let'm get away with it.

My shop is on the wrong side of the tracks, sort of speak. Lots of drugs and losers around here. And the sad part of it is, probably 40 to 50% of them are in their late teens to early 20's. They're homeless and on drugs because they can't "deal with their parents." And the whole time I'm wondering, how in the hell can you deal with going hungry, sleeping on the streets in the Texas heat and having to bum for everything you can get. The ex's son, he'd rather live on the streets that deal with having to abide by a few rules at home. His mom knows this. But she's afraid he'll end up in jail or dead if she kicks him out.

And now they want parents to be the school teachers at home because of Covid-19.....In general, parents can't even raise there kids right, much less teach them things a school teacher does in school.....this is a sad, sad situation for the upcoming generations IMO

As I've said a hundred times " And the government just keeps paying unmarried, unemployed, uneducated, fourth generation welfare women to have children who just continue the cycle." May not apply in this situation, but most.

32 y/o "boy?" If someone doesn't force him to grow up, he never will. "Help" does not help.

Mower King, are you saying something positive about teachers??? You know we only work 9 months a year with long Christmas and spring breaks,, 7 hours a day, are over paid and expect parents to help their children grow up.

Well it all comes back to the foundation of all evil, Consolodated Capital and greedy capitalist management.
Post WWII managment realized that they could exploit women to do menial factory work rather than modernise with high volume equipment.
Thus they could increase production for very little cost.
At the same time the US government invented the NUCLEAR FAMILY, single family houses with mum dad & 4 kids ( 6 if you were catholic ) .
No grandparents no grandkids.
This was done for two reasons
1) particularly in Europe to break down tribal prejudices and prevent historic hatreds being handed down from grandparents to grandchildren
2) To massively boost demand for consumer goods & housing to drag devistated economies into prosperity.

Originally it worked well then by the time the baby boomers hit production could not keep up so mothers were again drafted into the workforce to save business from spending lots of money on new tooling
Thus mothers were dragged away from the most important job on the planet, raising their children to be good citizens.
It also allowed management to stagnate wage growth where as in the 40's ( My 3 Sons - Leave it to Beaver families ) dad made enough money to buy a house, feed 6 people and educate 4 kids
Then in the 50's it was mum's partiotic duty to do shifts on the production line , leaving kids care very much to grandparents & neighbours and the false reward was paying off the house 10 years earlier and getting a second car/
By the 60's it was next to impossible to buy a house without 2 full time wages and mothers became so busy that 2 kids were all she could manage as the set roles for parents had not shifted since the pre WW I days when no mothers did paid work.
We then invented the "latch key" child educated at school by teachers and at home by Television because mothers were exhausted
By the 70's real wages had dropped so low that it was impossible to even feed & cloth a family of 3 unless both parents worked full time .
Neither parent had much in the way of free time so stuff like making & repairing cloths ended as did dad putting a new sole on your shoe or even repairing a broken chair.
We had invented the throw away society, even worse we had invented the greedy selfish society where ones "value" was the size of the house, the cost of the car & the cost of the expensive school we tossed the kids at .
In parallel with the new dog eat dog community we invented , governments became mean & nasty .
Down here all governments gave their employees a tiny wage rise in return for no longer allowing them access to public housing, so we created a Lord of the Flies situation where all public housing tenants had severe physical, mental , medical or social problems.
Thus their kids lived in a totally disfunctional community and strangely end up being disfunctional adults .
In the mean time advertising taped into parential guilt in order to get us to buy all sorts of stuff " for the protection of the kids "
The final nail in our coffin was cheap media who turned revolting role models into international celeberities for our children to emulate ( real or animated )

Rivets said:

Mower King, are you saying something positive about teachers??? You know we only work 9 months a year with long Christmas and spring breaks,, 7 hours a day, are over paid and expect parents to help their children grow up.

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Knowledge and education are the basis for all things that can be accomplished in life. Teachers provide the power of education to today's youth, thereby giving them the possibility for a better future. Teachers simplify the complex.....not sure all parents can do this!

But how do you tech a child who looks you in the face and says " EAT MY PANTS DUDE " and stomps off out the room ?
Or male children who refuse to accept any authority from women teachers ?
Basics such as language & respect for elders & those in authority have to come from the house, not the schoolroom .
When I wen to school, in the year that I turned 5 ( in December ) my parents had taught me my times tables 1 through 20, I woulf read the newspaper to them so I had good reading skills.
This was not out of the ordinary , most of the kids were on par with this.
Now days all they know is how to select a You tube video and dance ( wiggle & twitch ) to it.

Life skills are the job of parents not teachers but parents now days are too busy searching real estate catalogues for their 4th beach house to be bothered with their children.

MowerKing, I hope you realize that I’m just busting your chops. I spent 34 years in the classroom and have heard everything possible about teachers from students, parents, administrators, and everyone else’s who is smarter than a teacher. Even here on this forum I’ve been told what my signature says. It just surprised me that someone had something good to say about teachers, which I appreciate.

I asked my dad about what it was like living in a world where the mom didn't have to work. The dad was able to buy a home, 1 car and live like they did on "Leave it to Beaver." He replied. "That was TV. No one, except for the rich lived like that. My mom and dad both had to work to keep food on the table." He said there was no home insurance, car insurance or health insurance for most folks, because they couldn't afford it. Even with mom and dad working.

All that sort of busted my bubble on how things used to be.

My grandfather worked hard so his kids wouldn't have to work as hard. His kids worked hard, although not as hard as their dad, so their kids wouldn't have to work as hard. And so forth and so on. Inventions that make life easier and more efficient is one of humans greatest accomplishment. Einstein was right, for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

A friend of mine and I were discussing this the other day. He and I agree that Elvis helped to destroy decency.

I call "generation x" and "generation y"......full of rainbows, unicorns, entitlement, crybabys, don't know if their a boy or girl and the list goes on & on......the LOST GENERATION.....but, I'm old school !

Rivets said:

MowerKing, I hope you realize that I’m just busting your chops. I spent 34 years in the classroom and have heard everything possible about teachers from students, parents, administrators, and everyone else’s who is smarter than a teacher. Even here on this forum I’ve been told what my signature says. It just surprised me that someone had something good to say about teachers, which I appreciate.

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Daughter in law is a special education teacher for elementary kids. Between dip$h!t parents and doing IEPs and conferences she is about burned out. In my other business i do all the audio stuff for some schools so i am involved a lot in their activities when they need audio services which is just about everthing they do. Many teachers spend exorbitant amounts of their own time doing these activities.

Hammermechanicman said:

Daughter in law is a special education teacher for elementary kids. Between dip$h!t parents and doing IEPs and conferences she is about burned out. In my other business i do all the audio stuff for some schools so i am involved a lot in their activities when they need audio services which is just about everthing they do. Many teachers spend exorbitant amounts of their own time doing these activities.

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School spirit. LOL

This could help the situation if implemented here I suspect:

"According to the 1949 Israeli Security Service Law, conscription to military service is compulsory for all Israelis who turn 18"

Firstly TV's prime objective is to make the viewers anxious &/or depressed because in such a sate of mind your brain is most open to suggestion
Thus characters in TV shows are always depicted living a lifestyle way above what the character's income could support.
Arthur Murray's characters income would not have supported living in a 2 story 400 sq yd cape cod with live in nanny, even if the nanny was an auntie & not paid.
He would have been living in a single story 200 sq yd house wearing patched cloths & eating much simplier .
The Sex in the City's principle character would have need to own the magazine she supposedly wrote for in order to dress & live as depicted.
OTOH
Obviously things were very different in the USA
My mother was a spastic so never worked for a wage except during WW II.
I had 3 other siblings and 3 generations lived in the house my grand parents built but never finished paying for before he was bankrupted by a religious mafia.
None of us ever had our own room let alone our own bathroom.
Thus my father finished paying off the house loan , feed & clothed all 8 of us on the wages of a semi skilled labourer.
You would be struggeling to do the same thing now days on a professional income, let alone a labourers one.

As for the behaviour of kids, it needs to be remembered that we, or our children are the ones directly responsible for that behaviour.
We created the situation it is our fault and we are making it worse every year.

tom3 said:

This could help the situation if implemented here I suspect:

"According to the 1949 Israeli Security Service Law, conscription to military service is compulsory for all Israelis who turn 18"

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LOL.. You're wanting the government to teach kids right from wrong? The government doesn't even know the difference.

We had this discussion back in the days of the draft. What is the military's primary purpose? Defend the country or be a social training system? There is a valid argument that everyone should contribute to the common good by serving and that the structured military life could benefit elements of society, but the consensus at the time was that a smaller, professional force that wanted to be in the military was better.

USMC
You Signed the Mighty fine Contract

Per a friend. I was Army..........Military Intelligence. Now ain't that a joke.

tom3 said:

This could help the situation if implemented here I suspect:

"According to the 1949 Israeli Security Service Law, conscription to military service is compulsory for all Israelis who turn 18"

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Kids now days won't even be able to read this, much less, understand it!

mower king said:

Kids now days won't even be able to read this, much less, understand it!

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I agree that would be a good thing for America

wrldtvlr said:

We had this discussion back in the days of the draft. What is the military's primary purpose? Defend the country or be a social training system? There is a valid argument that everyone should contribute to the common good by serving and that the structured military life could benefit elements of society, but the consensus at the time was that a smaller, professional force that wanted to be in the military was better.

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The problem with the US military, is the leadership. It's been using our military to defend corporations and other countries freedoms for so long, most Americans don't have a clue as to what real freedom looks like. Not to mention, they have their hand in everything that protects corporate America. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against corporations. They are extremely important. But I'm against fascism, corporate bailouts their lobbyist getting away with murder.
For example, the bailouts under W Bush. They could've spent all that money on catching people up with their mortgage payments, and adding 3 months to it. And would have spent 1/2 of that money. Instead, they gave it to the banks. When it was all said and done, the people still lost their homes. But the banks didn't lose a dime.

This is unfortunately the younger generation!

wrldtvlr said:

We had this discussion back in the days of the draft. What is the military's primary purpose? Defend the country or be a social training system? There is a valid argument that everyone should contribute to the common good by serving and that the structured military life could benefit elements of society, but the consensus at the time was that a smaller, professional force that wanted to be in the military was better.

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I am yet to find a Sergent let alone a General who would prefer to have 1,000,000 draftees over 100 volunteers.
Too may people have watched too may silly army movies depiction the wayward child becoming a model citizen.
It does not happen that way
They spend most of their time in detention and the rest consuming way too much time & effort from the training staff.
If they get battle they can not be relied upon and become a danger to themselves and a liability to the rest of the troops.
However most end up becoming neurotic failures and a great many end up self harming.
And FWIW 2 of my tutors and one professor were all Isralei disserters or draft dogers

And before this becomes a general generational bitch session a few self reflections
How many of you charged your kids board & lodgings when they were a home & working ?
Ours had to cough up 1/3 of their take home.
Daughter used this as an excuse to move in with boyfriend who lived in a share house
Within a year she had dumped him and come back home.
Bonking every night was fun for a while but it was the cleaning & cooking for all of them that became the romance ender.

How many of you required your children to do chores and made them responsible for doing them ?
Forgot the garbage so mum forgot their dinner or to wash their going out cloths etc.
They learn pretty quick .

Remember the younger generations are WHAT WE MADE THEM

I volunteered for the military in 1975. In my basic training company at Ft. Dix New Jersey we had many enlistees from New York where the judge said military or jail. Well a scumbag is a scumbag with or without a uniform and scumbags don't change.
Didn't charge my boys rent but they turned out OK.

If a kid goes into the military as a decent kid, and comes out a decent man, chances are, he would've been a decent man without military.

We're all different in thousands of ways.
For example: One boy might be meek as a lamb. One girl might be sadistic. One boy might wanna be a girl. While is twin brother might be an honest alpha male.
I don't think kids can learn "right from wrong." I think those things are already in his mindset, same as his skin color. They can learn what's acceptable to society. But that doesn't mean he agree's with society.

I disagree with a lot of what society thinks is right or wrong. Luckily i'm 50 now and knows what society agrees with. And have learned to conform, while in public.
Example: If society says that the color blue was the best, I'd disagree. Why? I have no idea, why? I just know there's another color (or two) that I like better than blue.

Listening to my mid twenties son, I mean really listening to him. I think this younger generation has listen to their parents bich and complain about the way things are and decided they're not going to "conform." Why would they? Us parents bich and complain about the government, taxes, politicians, and just about everything else. So many have decided to just follow along with what their parents said.
A good example of this is biching about working all the time and not getting any where very fast. A kid hears this and wonder why bother working so much, since you're not going to get anywhere with it.
If teaching our children right from wrong worked, then every kid you have would be exactly the same. My two sons are as different as night & day. The 25yr old is still living with his mom. He works, and has some college under his belt. But enjoys living outside of work. There's not a lot of advancement in his line of work. At least not without a degree. The youngest, loves working. And being a pipeliner, at 23 has a big ole nice 4X4 crew cab dually. Big RV (because he works out of town a lot).
Both raised by the same mom & dad. Ate the same food. Watched the same shows, played the same video games, etc etc etc.


Now, I've expressed my opinion online, that should clear everything up. ?

Hammermechanicman said:

I volunteered for the military in 1975. In my basic training company at Ft. Dix New Jersey we had many enlistees from New York where the judge said military or jail. Well a scumbag is a scumbag with or without a uniform and scumbags don't change.
Didn't charge my boys rent but they turned out OK.

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Except now the scumbag knows how to kill people easily by hand and how to use a fire arm accurately & efficiently.
Not exactly the best thought out rehabilitation plan.

Back then New York was run by idiots. Oh wait. New York is still run by idiots they just hide the corruption better. Those idiots think NY is the center of the universe and they are the smartest people in the universe. Ass hats.

Hammermechanicman said:

Back then New York was run by idiots. Oh wait. New York is still run by idiots they just hide the corruption better. Those idiots think NY is the center of the universe and they are the smartest people in the universe. Ass hats.

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More like plan old NIMBYism
Get them to sign up for 3 years so they will not be around when I come up for re-election.
Plus financial buck passing
Let the Feds pick up the tab rather than the State / County corrections facility

We had a similar situation decades ago.
Build massive public housing estates too far out west to have today's riots/ bashings / murders / rapes make it back into town in time for the evening news .