Small Engine novice

[rklemm60]

Hi, My neighbor passed away and told his girl friend to give me his kohler command 20hp rider to me because I was the only neighbor who was friendly to this immigrant from Cambodia. He kept his rider in get condition and I was able to run it several times last winter. Then after sitting around for a couple of months, then engine does not want to turn over and I have no way of getting it to a small engine mechanic so I hope to get some assistance

 

[Born2Mow]

One Question: Is the fuel tank mounted HIGHER than the carb ?

This is a common design on smaller mowers & garden tractors, and it is also the kiss if death. Gravity pulls fuel into the carb where it ends up in the combustion chamber and/or in the engine oil. The only fuel shut off valve you can trust are the manual ones. And you MUST use it religiously.

Take out the spark plug and drain all the engine oil. Spin the engine. You may see raw fuel come out the muffler. Allow it to "air out" for 24 hrs. Install the new fuel shut off, new engine oil, a new spark plug and fresh fuel. (You can pour all the old fuel into your car because it won't care.)

Cars never have this issue because the fuel tank is BELOW the fuel intake system. Also, cars have a computer to sense poor quality fuel.

 

[Rivets]

You have come to the right place to help you out, but you need to provide us with more info so we know where to start. Please answer the following questions and someone will get back to you as soon as possible. It may take some time but I’m 95% sure we’ll be able to help you solve the problem, while keeping the costs down. At this point, please do not start throwing any parts at it until we can find the cause of your problem. Most of the time the DIY guys spend more than necessary trying to see what sticks to the wall.
1. What is the make of your unit along with all numbers from the ID tag.
2. What is the make of the engine along with all numbers from the ID tag.
3. When “you say it doesn’t turn over “. do you mean absolutely nothing happens when you turn the key?
4. Do you have a DC test light or small VOM to test electrical circuits? If yes the first thing to test is battery voltage.
5. Did you replace the old fuel with fresh fuel?
6. What have you done so far to solve the problem.

 

[rklemm60]

You have come to the right place to help you out, but you need to provide us with more info so we know where to start. Please answer the following questions and someone will get back to you as soon as possible. It may take some time but I’m 95% sure we’ll be able to help you solve the problem, while keeping the costs down. At this point, please do not start throwing any parts at it until we can find the cause of your problem. Most of the time the DIY guys spend more than necessary trying to see what sticks to the wall.
1. What is the make of your unit along with all numbers from the ID tag.
2. What is the make of the engine along with all numbers from the ID tag.
3. When “you say it doesn’t turn over “. do you mean absolutely nothing happens when you turn the key?
4. Do you have a DC test light or small VOM to test electrical circuits? If yes the first thing to test is battery voltage.
5. Did you replace the old fuel with fresh fuel?
6. What have you done so far to solve the problem.

Thank you so much for you timely response. Let me answer your questions using your numbers:
1. Its a Scotts 20 hp made by John Deer S-2048
2. Its a Kohler command 20 #2408301
3. yes, absolutely nothing happens
4. I use a multi-meter to test circuits and I just replaced the 12 volt battery and it is showing 12.5 volts
5. Last winter I never tried to start it until I had replaced all the old gas with fresh fuel. It ran great all winter
I pulled the switch and cleaned it. I identified all the lead markings. I tried to bypass the switch. I tried to connect two unconnected wires - a red to a white (that created a spark). I have started it dozens of times last winter. please see attached photos.

 

[Rivets]

Look behind the left rear wheel or under the seat, should be an ID tag with model numbers. Hook the plugs back up the way they were. We will try to find a wiring diagram and from that point we can start to solve your problem. This is going to be slow, because I’m guessing we are going to find multiple problems, the result of you trying to jump the switch. Be patient and we’ll get through this.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Thank you so much for you timely response. Let me answer your questions using your numbers:
1. Its a Scotts 20 hp made by John Deer S-2048
2. Its a Kohler command 20 #2408301
3. yes, absolutely nothing happens
4. I use a multi-meter to test circuits and I just replaced the 12 volt battery and it is showing 12.5 volts
5. Last winter I never tried to start it until I had replaced all the old gas with fresh fuel. It ran great all winter
I pulled the switch and cleaned it. I identified all the lead markings. I tried to bypass the switch. I tried to connect two unconnected wires - a red to a white (that created a spark). I have started it dozens of times last winter. please see attached photos.

Well now we are getting some where
Good news for you is I have that manual and there is only 1 wiring diagram so I will post it below
Bad news is it is from a locked file so it is a screen shot which are never as clear as they could be
So the las thing we need to know is which ignition you have as there were 2 different ones used as depicted in the far right section
The Smart Advance ( called SAM ) and the plain magneto
To work out which you have remove the blower housing and look at the coils , only 1 white wire = std magneto , 2 wires ( yellow & brown ) = SAM
Worse news is as I predicted the magneto kill wire is the white while so if you connected that to power you have just cost yourself $ 80 to $ 150
JD use a 30 amp fuseable link between the battery & the alternator wire for recharging and a 15A fuse to protect the wiring on the red wire to the key switch.
I will guess that the extra red wire on the battery , the one that does not go through terminal cover , is a 1/2 wits attempt to overcome a blown fuseable link ( heavy blue wire )

Now the big question is can you understand this wiring diagram
From my time on various forums it appears that less than 0.01% of American can actually manage this basic high school education feat .
If not let us know so we can walk you through it and hopefully fix your butchered mower
Please note the K1 START RELAY is the proper name for the solenoid
To energise the starter the purple wire needs to be battery voltage when the key is in the start position.

 

[rklemm60]

Look behind the left rear wheel or under the seat, should be an ID tag with model numbers. Hook the plugs back up the way they were. We will try to find a wiring diagram and from that point we can start to solve your problem. This is going to be slow, because I’m guessing we are going to find multiple problems, the result of you trying to jump the switch. Be patient and we’ll get through this.

Thank you for your reply. I reconnected the starter switch as you suggested and found a tag with the model number but it was hard to read. I checked under the seat and all around the rear left tire, but, found this tag on the perpendicular side of the rear trailer hitch. Hopefully this information helps. Unfortunately, I had to take screen shots in order to get these on to your server.

Look behind the left rear wheel or under the seat, should be an ID tag with model numbers. Hook the plugs back up the way they were. We will try to find a wiring diagram and from that point we can start to solve your problem. This is going to be slow, because I’m guessing we are going to find multiple problems, the result of you trying to jump the switch. Be patient and we’ll get through this.

 

[slomo]

For one, that left pic, is the key switch right? See that green puss on the terminal side? That switch is bad.

And all that black house Romex wire is crazy.

Second pic from the left. See that green puss in the connector? Not good......

Lots of experimental wiring going on.

Get a cheap soldering iron and some marine grade heat shrink with the adhesive inside. Go to town on that mower.

 

[bertsmobile1]

This is getting way too confusing as there are multiple threads happening
rklemm60 has energised the magneto kill wires so has fried both of his magneto coils so no matter what is done it will not start till they are replaced .
Star recognised the engine as having standard coils so at least he will not need to replace the SAM .
As he mentioned it was owned by a Cambodian immigrant , a person from a country where replacement parts do not exist so any broken item gets worked around , fixed or bodged .
SO the wiring will need to be properly checked
I have already suggested rklemm60 purchase the JD Tech Manual & Star has identified the correct one.
I found I had one on file so posted the wiring diagram.
In the other thread Star also posted the switch connections , so all the necessary information is there .

Right now I am waiting to find out is rklemm60 can understand wiring diagrams before going further .
As he got the mower for nothing IMHO as the price of the manual & coils is about 10% of the price of a used mower so it is a no brainer .
Looks like it was used to push snow as well so I would expect to see a fair bit of corrosion on the terminal plugs and would not be surprised if they key switch is bad
I could just about guarantee that the fuseable link has blown .
I usually replace them with a big fuse or circuit breaker

So now we wait for the owner to come back before we can help him with a repair plan

 

[Rivets]

Bert, I agree with you. I guess we will have to be patient also. Rk, would you tell us what happens after you removed all your jumpers and also how well you understand electrical wiring, diagrams and troubleshooting? This will tell us if you can fix this with our help.