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Oil consideration

#1

M

m_cat12

Anyone consider oil other than the stated 5w-30 that Honda recommends? Example would be Rotella T6 or Amsoil oils?

Just curious if there's something better available.

Thanks!


#2

B

bertsmobile1

Mower oils are not car oils.
Car oils are not mower oils.
Having said that any oil is better than no oil.

Air cooled engine oils are formulated to take higher temperature variations than oils for water cooled engines.
Mower oils are air cooled engine oils with more detergents and more anti corrosive additives to cope with the infrequent & seasonal use of the engine .
FWIW I only use 10w40 in all engines deigned to be run on multigrades.
It gets hot down here an I have to keep 10w 40 for all the Honda X25 & X35 engines that toss the 10W 30 on no time flat.

Cheaper oils changed more frequently will be better than expensive oils used for their full designated service life as mower sumps are really small.
There are after market mower oils that are cheaper than Honda oil and there are some that are more expensive.
Just find one that makes you feel good using it.
Just remember the less time it is in there the better it is for the engine.


#3

robert@honda

robert@honda

m_cat12 said:
Anyone consider oil other than the stated 5w-30 that Honda recommends? Example would be Rotella T6 or Amsoil oils?

Just curious if there's something better available.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

For everything but snow blowers, Honda says to use SAE 10W-30.

Doesn't matter if it is synthetic or petroleum based. Just be sure the bottle says SAE 10W-30.

What does matter is one key thing: change interval. Change the oil per the schedule in the owner's manual. Don't buy into the hype a fancy synthetic oil can be use longer than the recommended change interval.


#4

M

m_cat12

Ok thank you! Ill be googling oil for mowers in just a few minutes. Appreciate the help!


#5

M

m_cat12

Decied on 4 cycle Amsoil. Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction!


#6

S

SeniorCitizen

The viscosity isn't that important to me but the service letter designation is. I suspect your Honda manual states that designation.


#7

B

buffettck

robert@honda said:
For everything but snow blowers, Honda says to use SAE 10W-30.
Click to expand...

Not true. The manual for my Honda mower with the GCV160 engine says 5W-30. I use the same Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 I use in my cars and Honda snow blower. Zero issues with it.


#8

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

buffettck said:
Not true. The manual for my Honda mower with the GCV160 engine says 5W-30. I use the same Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 I use in my cars and Honda snow blower. Zero issues with it.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, 5W-30 or 10W-30 are similar oils once the mower is warmed-up. Full synthetic oil is far superior to any/all conventional motor oils and I use 5W-30 synthetic in all my 4-cycle equipment. In terms of which synthetic oil to choose, all full - not blend synthetic oils can easily handle small engines so I look at price with rebates.


#9

B

bertsmobile1

TonyPrin said:
At the end of the day, 5W-30 or 10W-30 are similar oils once the mower is warmed-up. Full synthetic oil is far superior to any/all conventional motor oils and I use 5W-30 synthetic in all my 4-cycle equipment. In terms of which synthetic oil to choose, all full - not blend synthetic oils can easily handle small engines so I look at price with rebates.
Click to expand...

Yes BUT
Water cooled car engine oils are not the same as AIR COOLED mower / Motorcycle oils
next
Mower oils should always be changed at the end of the mower season, before the mower gets laid up over winter.
The quality of the oil is pretty well insignificant, provided it is changed AT THE ENGINE MAKERS REQUIRED INTERVALS and not what is written on the side of the bottle.

Having said that a lot of people use the same oil in all their vehicles & impliments as it saves having 25 different types of oils hanging around which is fine, provided you change it regularly.
And this would mean by hours during the season and also at the end of the season.


#10

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

bertsmobile1 said:
Yes BUT
Water cooled car engine oils are not the same as AIR COOLED mower / Motorcycle oils
next
Mower oils should always be changed at the end of the mower season, before the mower gets laid up over winter.
The quality of the oil is pretty well insignificant, provided it is changed AT THE ENGINE MAKERS REQUIRED INTERVALS and not what is written on the side of the bottle.

Having said that a lot of people use the same oil in all their vehicles & impliments as it saves having 25 different types of oils hanging around which is fine, provided you change it regularly.
And this would mean by hours during the season and also at the end of the season.
Click to expand...

Yes, I routinely get into discussions about why a vehicle can go thousands of miles between oil changes but a mower or snow blower may require an oil change after less than 5 miles. The fact is a major reason for an oil change is build-up of deposits in the small engine's oil (because of a lack of an oil filter) and not because the oil has degraded.

In terms of oil quality, there are vast differences between motor oils. Motor oil made from reprocessed (used) oil is readily available as well as motor oil with poor additives or lacking cleaning agents. In addition, many motor oils fail to pass API standards and lack their donut seal. Beyond that, according to the API, 20% of oils from oil change centers tested by them failed over a 5-year period.


#11

S

Sparkland

buffettck said:
Not true. The manual for my Honda mower with the GCV160 engine says 5W-30. I use the same Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 I use in my cars and Honda snow blower. Zero issues with it.
Click to expand...

My Honda HRX217HYA manual says "10-30W for general use." Although from the diagram 5-30W may be used if you are mowing in temperatures below 40 degrees.:wink: No real problem with either of those weights, but I am using 10-30W because I generally mow in temperatures between 50-100 degrees.


#12

J

Jack17

TonyPrin said:
Yes, a vehicle can go thousands of miles between oil changes but a mower or snow blower may require an oil change after less than 5 miles. .
Click to expand...

True, but this analogy has no real meaning. Look at it from different angle; mower oil change interval 'traveling' at full speed is set at lets say 50 Hours. A vehicle traveling at full speed...same run time of 50 Hrs x full speed of 100 mph = 5000 miles. Here is the kicker...off-road* guys change oil at around 500 miles!

*off-road (dusty environment) same as average lawn in Summer months.


#13

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

Jack17 said:
True, but this analogy has no real meaning. Look at it from different angle; mower oil change interval 'traveling' at full speed is set at lets say 50 Hours. A vehicle traveling at full speed...same run time of 50 Hrs x full speed of 100 mph = 5000 miles. Here is the kicker...off-road* guys change oil at around 500 miles!

*off-road (dusty environment) same as average lawn in Summer months.
Click to expand...

I want to make certain my point's not lost in the analogies. Oil change intervals for vehicles and small engines are incomparable because vehicles have oil filters and most small engines don't. Vehicle oil change intervals are driven by time it takes motor oil to degrade - longer for synthetic than conventional. Small engine oil change intervals are based on the engine manufacturer's estimate of when the oil gets contaminated by tiny bits of metal and other stuff. This is highlighted by the fact many small engines require an initial oil change after only 5 hours.


#14

Carscw

Carscw

Omg

Sent from my iPhone using LMF


#15

J

Jack17

TonyPrin said:
I want to make certain my point's not lost in the analogies.
Please do!

Oil change intervals for vehicles and small engines are incomparable because vehicles have oil filters and most small engines don't.
They're most definitely comparable! Re-read my reply above.

Vehicle oil change intervals are driven by time it takes motor oil to degrade - longer for synthetic than conventional.
Motor oils don't degrade...they change properties by means of evaporation and contamination.

Small engine oil change intervals are based on the engine manufacturer's estimate of when the oil gets contaminated by tiny bits of metal and other stuff.
Okay.

This is highlighted by the fact many small engines require an initial oil change after only 5 hours.
It's more or less dictated by their crappy quality control
Click to expand...

---


#16

H

HON

Re: Oil consideration: What about higher ambient temps, and older engines?

What about in higher ambient temperatures, and earlier design (ie 20 year old) engines?

From time to time I operate a Honda Harmony HRB215HXA mower in ambient temperatures of not less than 10C (50F) to not more than, but occasionaly up to, 40C (104F).

The engine on this mower is a GXV140. This engine model number is cast in raised letters into the block itself.

While I've owned this mower for 20 years, it has very low hours on it, as I do not have a lawn. I've used it to mow various elderly neighbor's lawns over the years, because I didn't want to have to dink around with their random brand mowers in disrepair when just trying to do them a favor out of kindness when they got sick or were recovering from a medical procedure, etc.

I have two different Honda produced Owner's manuals for GXV140 engines.

One manual recommends using straight weight SAE30 for all ambient temps above 10C, up to and including 40C.

This same manual states that the maximum ambient temperature for 10W-30 is limited to 30C (86F), and when I do mow, the ambient temps are often in excess of 86F (unfortunately).

The oil recommendations in this manual suggest that Honda did not believe that a 10W-30 functions the same as, or maintains the same 30 weight viscosity as, a straight 30 weight oil.

My second GXV140 engine manual has a more elaborate oil viscosity recommendation to ambient temperature chart. The chart is divided into separate straight weight and multi-weight categories.

For the multi-weight chart, within my ambient temperature range, Honda recommends a 20W-40 or a 20W-50. On the straight weight chart in my temperature range, Honda recommends SAE30 straight.

So, in two different engine manuals for the same engine, Honda did not recommend 10W30 in my temperature range on the charts . Honda did recommend 10W-30 "for general, all temperature use" in text, but then referred readers to consult the chart "when the average ambient temperature in your area is within the indicated range."

I have extra quarts of 10W-40 and 20W-50 on hand. I'm using the 10W-40 this spring, and this summer will switch to 20W-50. I have a lot of mowing to do this year. More rain than we've had in a decade.


#17

B

bertsmobile1

The reason for using multi grades is to make it easier to start cold, no more no less.
The smallest number is the base grade of the oil
So a 0W 50 is 0 grade oil with fortifiers to bring it to the same viscosity as 50wt oil at the same temperature.
A 5w 50 oil is 5 wt oil with fortifiers to bring it to the same viscosity as 50wt oil at the same temperature.
a 10w 50 oil is 10 wt oil with fortifiers to bring it to the same viscosity as 50wt oil at the same temperature.

A 5w 40 oil is 5 wt oil with fortifiers to bring it to the same viscosity as 40wt oil at the same temperature.
Got the picture .

The higher number is the viscosity at OPERATING temperature and the oil does not get thicker as it gets hotter, it simply does not thin down as much as a strait mono grade oil.

Thinner oils will tend to leak more and may not be able to maintain a continious oil film between the crank & the bushings at elevated temperatures.
Thicker oils may not be able to penetrate the space between the crank & the bushings when cold.
Thus all the recommended oil grade will overlap each other.
If you have a residential block and at most mow for an hour or so, go for the lower grade.
If you have a big block or use the mower all day long, go for the higher grades.

If you keep 20W50 for your car and am happy to change it every season at the end of the season, use that and save keeping multiple oils.


#18

B

buffettck

bertsmobile1 said:
Yes BUT
Water cooled car engine oils are not the same as AIR COOLED mower / Motorcycle oils
next
Mower oils should always be changed at the end of the mower season, before the mower gets laid up over winter.
Click to expand...

Yup, I do exactly that and it's absolutely the most important thing regarding engine oil. After the initial 5 hour break-in, Honda says to change the oil after 50 hours of run time. I mow 30+ weeks a year at about an hour each time. No point in stretching that oil into the start of the next season. Oil is cheap and easy to replace. With my Honda mower, I don't have to crawl under anything and there isn't even a filter to deal with. :biggrin:


#19

J

Jack17

B&S now says "with our new line of engines there is no need to change oil for 12 years...but it won't hurt if you do" they say. :laughing:

It's like with the Japanese flag...some say its the 'rising Sun' others say its a meatball. No, that didn't come out right. Never mind! :cool:


#20

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

Jack17 said:
B&S now says "with our new line of engines there is no need to change oil for 12 years...but it won't hurt if you do" they say. :laughing:

It's like with the Japanese flag...some say its the 'rising Sun' others say its a meatball. No, that didn't come out right. Never mind! :cool:
Click to expand...


B&S EX and EXi engines have been around since (I think) 2005. Both engines never need oil changes for the life of the engine, although both require checking the level and adding as needed.

These engines use an air filter and deign features aimed at keeping dirt away - I'm skeptical. It seems to me that mowers, in particular, can easily get very dirty and keeping that dirt out of the carburetor is difficult over a number of years.


#21

stevestd

stevestd

Don't know much about oil but it never mechanically breaks down; unless of course it gets contamination which is every engine I know with moving parts.


#22

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

stevestd said:
Don't know much about oil but it never mechanically breaks down; unless of course it gets contamination which is every engine I know with moving parts.
Click to expand...

All motor oils break down under use in an engine. This is technically referred to as degradation: the alteration of the oil's fundamental chemistry. One simple example is an engine that "burns" oil in which the oil literally burns up. Motor oil, reacting to heat, pressure and/or oxidation separates with the ash content creating sludge and other deposits. In addition, viscosity of the oil deteriorates over time. Beyond that, additives in the oil loose their ability to provide benefits.

This applies to both conventional motor oils and synthetics. Of course it takes synthetics longer to break down for several reasons including that their ash content is significantly lower.

Having said all that, though, this is a lawn mower forum. In the case of mowers and other small engines, motor oil is less likely to break down from non-commercial use. In those cases, oil changes are more dictated by contamination than motor oil break down.


#23

G

gnm109

I just saw this thread. I have two Honda H1011 Harmony riding mowers. The owner's manual for this machne says to use 10w-30 Service SH or SJ. It also specifies an oil change every 3 months or 20 hours use. That's about what I've been doing and both mowers have been running fine - one since 1993 and the other since 2001.

As mentioned below, making sure that your mower has some oil and changing it on schedule is just as important as the exact grade. It works for me.


#24

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

I have two Honda H1011 Harmony riding mowers. The owner's manual for this machne says to use 10w-30 Service SH or SJ.
Click to expand...

That's interesting SH is an obsolete oil, making it available but not always easy to find. I believe SJ is still a current oil, primarily for use in 1993-96 vehicles.


#25

robert@honda

robert@honda

TonyPrin said:
That's interesting SH is an obsolete oil, making it available but not always easy to find. I believe SJ is still a current oil, primarily for use in 1993-96 vehicles.
Click to expand...

FYI, the Honda H1011 riding mower was introduced in 1993, and discontinued by 1999.


#26

TonyPrin

TonyPrin

robert@honda said:
FYI, the Honda H1011 riding mower was introduced in 1993, and discontinued by 1999.
Click to expand...

Well that explains it. Are you sure your mower can't use SL or SM oil without an issue? SL and SM category oils were introduced in 2001 and 2004, respectively. So, it stands to reason your manual wouldn't say these oils are for use in your mower because they didn't exist when your manual was printed.

In the case of vehicles, the American Petroleum Institute says SL and SM "may be used where API Service Category SJ and earlier categories are recommended". My guess is that the same applies to Honda mowers. Consider contacting Honda to find out. It could make it easier and cheaper to find oil.

BTW, the same may apply to SN, but I'm far les certain.


#27

G

gnm109

TonyPrin said:
Well that explains it. Are you sure your mower can't use SL or SM oil without an issue? SL and SM category oils were introduced in 2001 and 2004, respectively. So, it stands to reason your manual wouldn't say these oils are for use in your mower because they didn't exist when your manual was printed.

In the case of vehicles, the American Petroleum Institute says SL and SM "may be used where API Service Category SJ and earlier categories are recommended". My guess is that the same applies to Honda mowers. Consider contacting Honda to find out. It could make it easier and cheaper to find oil.

BTW, the same may apply to SN, but I'm far les certain.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest....I have no idea of the service level of the oil that I've been using for the last 22 years and 16 years respectively for the mowers. :ashamed:

I am certain that I always used 10w-30, however. The main thing is that I change the oil (1.1 quarts) frequently every so many hours, but even that is a guess.

IMHO, as long as you have some clean oil of the proper grade you're good to go. If I started worrying about the service level, i'd never get any mowing done. LOL.

Recently, when I was converting the newer mower over to standard shift from hydrostatic, I had the oil pan off to cure an oil leak and it sure looks nice in there. I guess what I've been doing is probably working. :smile:


#28

B

bertsmobile1

gnm109 said:
I'll be honest....I have no idea of the service level of the oil that I've been using for the last 22 years and 16 years respectively for the mowers. :ashamed:

I am certain that I always used 10w-30, however. The main thing is that I change the oil (1.1 quarts) frequently every so many hours, but even that is a guess.

IMHO, as long as you have some clean oil of the proper grade you're good to go. If I started worrying about the service level, i'd never get any mowing done. LOL.

Recently, when I was converting the newer mower over to standard shift from hydrostatic, I had the oil pan off to cure an oil leak and it sure looks nice in there. I guess what I've been doing is probably working. :smile:
Click to expand...

Spot on.
For home owners, an annual service BEFORE you bed the mower down for winter will keep in in tip top condition.
Included should be a thorough clean so you will notice loose bolts , cracks etc that can be remmied before the next mowing season


#29

G

gnm109

bertsmobile1 said:
Spot on.
For home owners, an annual service BEFORE you bed the mower down for winter will keep in in tip top condition.
Included should be a thorough clean so you will notice loose bolts , cracks etc that can be remmied before the next mowing season
Click to expand...

That's excellent advice!

Additionally, my Honda mowers have an on-off petcock for the fuel feed right at the inlet to the carburetor. When I use the mower for the last time in a given year. I close the petcock and run the fuel out of the carburetor. It takes about 1-2 minutes and keeps the carburetor from gumming up. I also drain the fuel tank and use any remainder in my car. That way, when I use the mower again after putting in fresh fuel, it will start right up.

Another thing that I do is to connect a Battery Tender Jr. at all times when the mower is not in use. I like the Deltron Battery Tender Jr. because it has a maximum input current of 0.75 amps.The battery voltage will then float at between 12.9 and 13.2 VDC so that it's always hot and doesn't get a chance to sulfate. If you do that all the time, you can get 6 to 7 years out of a battery. The batteries that are in each of them at this time are over 4 years old right now. I buy the ones from Walmart and they last quite well if kept on tenders.

Happy Trails!


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