Chains & weights MTD "190-831" snowblower attachment weight box (MTD part 784-5147)

[bruceha2000]

Hi all,
I got a 1995 Yardman 800 (Kohler 20 HP hydrostatic) for free from a friend. 50" deck and the subject snow blower. Learning on a free rusty old garden tractor has to be better than learning on a new expensive one, right?

I have things working OK except the weight box sticks out behind the tractor and is SO low that it drags when I am on uneven surfaces (which is most of the time). Doesn't help that the prior owner welded a plate to the bottom with a ball on the back.

This thing is an anchor. I can lose traction (with rear chains) even with a 50 pound weight on each rear tire, 210 pounds of sand in the box and my 175 pounds on the seat. Turn the front tires? They just catch sideways in the snow and I go nowhere. OK, so VERY small angle turns if I haven't blown that area yet. Don't even think about backing up hill. It is hard enough to go up hill forward. Then add dips that raise the front wheels and it will stuff the ball and box into the snow behind the tractor. It MIGHT be able to drag through but if I try to back up in this condition, I just cram it into the ground and am dead stopped.

So, I imagine if I can find someone with a welder, I can rip the plate and ball off. But I'm sure I'd still be dragging the box and cramming it into the ground if I back up. I'm wondering if it is reasonable to take the thing to a metal/machine shop and have them make a bracket that would support the box higher up, like even a foot. Do you all think that would work or would having the box high cause other problems I haven't thought of?

Here is the parts picture if it helps
http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/WL000490-00003.png

How are other weight boxes made/attached to tractors? I can't believe that every one is designed to be just a few inches above the ground. I can't be the only one with this problem. After all a "garden" tractor should be able to handle other than dead flat and level surfaces.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[KennyV]

For weight ballast to be the most effective you want it as low as possible. The higher it is the more you will be top heavy.
BUT you obviously can not have it so low it drags, no weight advantage once it makes contact with the earth.
It is easy to Overload your rear axles so you should be using the weight as a counter balance for front mounted attachments, and not the perfect solution for inadequate traction... :smile:KennyV

 

[lawn mower fanatic]

"Metz12" added a weight box to his mower, and said it works well when plowing. I borrowed these pictures from his album to show you. If you want more info on it just wait for him to reply to this thread.

(http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/metz12-albums-mower-weight-box-picture10586-002.html)

(http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/metz12-albums-mower-weight-box-picture10587-005.html)

 

[metz12]

like fanatic said, i put a weight box on my tractor for plowing and it works great! didnt need chains, i only put about 30-35pounds in the thing. and plus, both of our tractirs are almost the same. and if you would like more help, please post pictures so we have a better idea of what your talking about!!

 

[bruceha2000]

like fanatic said, i put a weight box on my tractor for plowing and it works great! didn't need chains, i only put about 30-35pounds in the thing. and plus, both of our tractors are almost the same. and if you would like more help, please post pictures so we have a better idea of what you're talking about!!

Thanks guys.

Metz - You are plowing what I'm guessing is a fairly flat and maybe fairly level surface, maybe even paved? None of this describes what I am clearing :wink: The blower weighs in at about 350#, I don't think 35# in the box will cut it. At the moment I have about 185# in the box. It used to be 210# but the top of one bag was sticking out and got ripped by the tire chain. Thus I unnecessarily sanded some of the area :laughing:


Looks like it DOESN'T have to be as low as possible though. :smile: Keeping Kenny's comments in mind, I can probably get by if it is even 4" to 6" higher, especially if the ball and plate are removed. To be fair, if the front wheels are on a rise high enough to catch the rear of the box raised 6", this little tractor isn't going to push all that weight up it anyway. Presumably I could manage if all I'm occasionally dragging is the support rails under the box and no longer dealing with the plate and ball on the back. I'll do some measurements and see what the most likely minimum height increase would be and see if I can get the box modified.

Hmm, I have to look and see how the box is attached to the rails that slide into the blower support frame. If I've been good, it is bolted on and I can create my own "raiser" out of wood or angle iron. If not, I'm at the mercy of someone with a welder and the ability to make something that will hold the box and slip into the support frame. I'm pretty sure the rust, er I mean rear shroud over the gas tank, won't support much weight.

I won't be able to get pictures for a few days but I'll do my best. In the meantime, take your box and put the front edge of the bottom of it just behind and below the nut on the ball shown in you picture THEN stick a piece of plate metal on the bottom of the rear of the box and a ball on the end of that Then run the tractor over lumpy terrain where the front wheels will be higher than the rear and the back of the box is dragging :smile: THEN have the rear wheels sink some and try to back up jamming the ball into the ground .... You'll have a pretty good idea.

Bruce

 

[metz12]

Thanks guys.

Metz - You are plowing what I'm guessing is a fairly flat and maybe fairly level surface, maybe even paved? None of this describes what I am clearing :wink: The blower weighs in at about 350#, I don't think 35# in the box will cut it. At the moment I have about 185# in the box. It used to be 210# but the top of one bag was sticking out and got ripped by the tire chain. Thus I unnecessarily sanded some of the area :laughing:


Looks like it DOESN'T have to be as low as possible though. :smile: Keeping Kenny's comments in mind, I can probably get by if it is even 4" to 6" higher, especially if the ball and plate are removed. To be fair, if the front wheels are on a rise high enough to catch the rear of the box raised 6", this little tractor isn't going to push all that weight up it anyway. Presumably I could manage if all I'm occasionally dragging is the support rails under the box and no longer dealing with the plate and ball on the back. I'll do some measurements and see what the most likely minimum height increase would be and see if I can get the box modified.

Hmm, I have to look and see how the box is attached to the rails that slide into the blower support frame. If I've been good, it is bolted on and I can create my own "raiser" out of wood or angle iron. If not, I'm at the mercy of someone with a welder and the ability to make something that will hold the box and slip into the support frame. I'm pretty sure the rust, er I mean rear shroud over the gas tank, won't support much weight.

I won't be able to get pictures for a few days but I'll do my best. In the meantime, take your box and put the front edge of the bottom of it just behind and below the nut on the ball shown in you picture THEN stick a piece of plate metal on the bottom of the rear of the box and a ball on the end of that Then run the tractor over lumpy terrain where the front wheels will be higher than the rear and the back of the box is dragging :smile: THEN have the rear wheels sink some and try to back up jamming the ball into the ground .... You'll have a pretty good idea.

Bruce

when i did a paved driveway i put 30 pounds in the thing. i did a path just yesterday in the snow because i just put the drive belt on my mower. i put 60 pounds of weight in the thing and filled the rest with sand. the terrain was dirt, and there are a bunch of hills. didnt slip at all. had to be close to 100pounds in that box and it worked greatly.

 

[bruceha2000]

Turns out I have NOT been good, the box is welded to the rails that go into the blower frame.
But maybe I can make an "erector set" support that goes into the frame and to which I can bolt the box.

From the side:

From the rear:

As you can see, not a whole lot of clearance under the box and almost none under the ball. I took the ball off yesterday which could help a little, but I'd need a grinder to get its support off the box.

Bruce

 

[metz12]

so how much do you slip when your snow blowing? i dont think you need to mount the thing so low either, but as kenny said, the lower it is the lower the center of gravity is. my box on my tractor is pretty high but it works well for me. and if your putting so much weight in the back with wheel weights and also tire chains, wouldnt you think your Weighingm the thing down? the also if you could take a picture of your whole rig then that would help me out alot to advise you.

 

[bruceha2000]

Won't have the opportunity for more pictures until the weekend.

As far as slipping, it does a pretty good job at that if any of the wheels get into uncleared snow. If I lean back I can sometimes get more traction so that would suggest more weight in the box would help. I can't blow down to the ground because it is REALLY uneven and I'd be blowing dirt, grass and gravel all over the place and running into ledge just above the level of the softer ground in some places so I have the plastic skids set to max height. I can get stuck with the rear wheels spinning in a deeper spot which then sinks the box into the snow or ground and I go nowhere as the rear of the tractor is "supported" by the box.

Does all that weight hog it down? Sure does. Moves quite slowly backwards (even with the blower lifted) up slopes I think are not all that steep. The rule is "always go down hill and forward". :smile: And don't turn more than a couple of degrees except on already cleared areas. The front wheels (2WD) just get caught in the snow and act as a brake - forward or backward. And if there is a drop to the side, instead of the front wheels helping steer out of it, they just slide down the hill. Attempts to back out just let the front slide farther down hill. One would want to stay away from running along the side of a slope, but sometimes the snow is blown nice and flat and where that "edge" is may not be that easy to tell. Of course it works that way when mowing with the 50" deck as well, but then you CAN see the ground and stay away (once you've learned about this problem :wink: ).

As far as box height, I think I'd be in pretty good shape if the ball support were removed and the bottom of the box supports were about the height of the gap in the boards just above the ball in the picture. If height of the box were not a stability problem, having it a lot higher would allow an angle support from the blower frame to the back of the box. But that would minimally put the bottom of the box about the height of the top of the wall behind the box in the picture (about in line with the red box on that wall) and I think that would be too high. Given the shallow angle from the blower frame to the back of the box where I *think* I can avoid the problem of the box hitting the ground, I think physics says I would need a very strong welded metal frame that came out of the blower frame, up 90 degrees, then 90 degrees to the back. Maybe with a 45 degree brace but it would be pretty short.

Weight wise, would it be better with more weight in the box slightly higher but without the wheel weights?

I see in the picture that the chain on the left wheel looks loose. How tight should they be? I recall that one going on fairly easily. Really had to fight the right side to get the long hook in and latched.

BTW, the reason the tractor is parked on those 2 by 12s is that the support for the first 6 or 8' of the drive bay floor isn't great and the side of the tractor you see would be lower than the other side by a couple of inches as is evident by the gap under the board under the wheel. AND the ground drops down from the outside to the drive bay floor which then rises toward the back of the barn (and tractor) in the pictures. I had to make a somewhat flat wood support for the wheels from the ground 5' from the barn into the drive bay just to get the tractor in there with the blower and box attached. Not a problem with the mid mount mower of course. Would be less of a problem if the box were higher as well. Not sure just HOW much higher it would have to be to not need any "outside to inside" platform. Guess I'd have to do some measurements with the box removed.

I am a noob in all of this so any technical advice on HOW to blow most efficiently wouldn't be out of place :smile:

Bruce

 

[metz12]

well to my opinion that box is way too low. maybe a couple of inches higher. that ball hitch does need to go. and the skids should probably be changed to steel and bolted/welded on. your wheel weights are 50lbs you said correct? try putting a little less weight in your box if the thing is bogging down alot. if you have any more questions feel free to ask