Kroller CV15S won't start without staring fluid

[oneoldsap]

model CV15S 2005 or 2006 era
spec 41590
serial 3005604141

38" Simplicity tractor style rider. Sitting for 10 years. Tank are carb are clean. Fires/runs only with starting fluid.

This has a block mounted fuel pump I suspect is bad. Fuel is pumped into a hard line over top of the engine into carb. Walbro carb has a restrictor on the fuel inlet. Small hole is all as in maybe 3 bread ties large. Tried bypassing the fuel pump via gravity. Tank is higher than carb. Not enough fuel volume to run it. Guessing it needs a little pressure to fill the bowl and run?

Again it runs with starting fluid. Will keep running if you pulse spray some juice into the carb. Engine is starving for fuel . Can someone verify this engine NEEDS the fuel pump please? Thanks in advance.

What you have done so far , hasn't been enough , as you still have a fuel supply issue . You didn't mention a filter at all , should have one . Maybe the outlet in the tank is your problem . If you replaced the Carb with one of those cheap Chinese Carbs , That could be your problem . From experience , I know this , some (most) Chinese stuff is junk , brand new from the box !

 

[slomo]

Fuel filter is fairly fresh. Paper inside is still a proper brown color. Fuel from the tank pours out of the filter as fast as gravity allows.

Still has the OEM Kroller carb. As I stated, this OEM carb has a tiny hole inside the carb inlet pipe. Size of a carb spray straw. Never seen one like this. Guess it throttles down the fuel pump volume/pressure in effort to not overwhelm the needle and seat.

Only time I buy Chi-sneeze carbs is when the OEM is no longer made.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

The fuel pump puts out very little pressure. I am not sure if there are different carbs for pump or Non-pump engines. As you have said it has set for 10 years i would assume the rubber check valves are hard and not working so the pump has failed. I would replace the fuel pump and go from there. A hole that small in the inlet will work just fine.

 

[slomo]

New fuel pump on the way.

I've never seen an inlet restriction like this before on a carb. This mower has not been touched anything more than oil changes.

Worse comes to worse, I'm drilling out that inlet restriction and bypassing the fuel pump. Tank is higher than the carb anyway. Full gravity fuel flow should be fine for this thing.

 

[sgkent]

If the restriction is between the carb and fuel pump is is likely there to keep the fuel pump from overwhelming the carb.

 

[slomo]

If the restriction is between the carb and fuel pump is is likely there to keep the fuel pump from overwhelming the carb.

Restriction is inside the carb fuel inlet tube.

 

[winmod21]

New fuel pump on the way.

I've never seen an inlet restriction like this before on a carb. This mower has not been touched anything more than oil changes.

Worse comes to worse, I'm drilling out that inlet restriction and bypassing the fuel pump. Tank is higher than the carb anyway. Full gravity fuel flow should be fine for this thing.

Hi slomo,
Did the new fuel pump do the trick? I just enjoyed reading thru this thread, and was thinking I should probably have a new fuel pump on hand as spare. I found this part # online [ Kohler Fuel Pump - Part No. 12 559 02-S - AKA Part No. 1255902S - Supersedes 12 559 01-S ]. If you can or have time to find the part # of the one that you ordered & installed, was it the same?

I haven't checked the fuel flow yet on our CV15S (as you suggested on my 'GT225 ~ no restart' thread), but will tomorrow, after picking-up some extra fuel line & a shutoff valve. Also haven't taken the carb off yet, but we did receive our ultrasonic cleaner yesterday-- so will probably try it out next week after mowing.

Nor have I replaced the ignition mod yet, but planning on also doing that.

Two questions;
1) When you hook that fuel line up to check the flow-- down stream of the fuel pump, do you suggest removing that little tiny section of rubber fuel line at the fuel pump outlet, and hooking-up the long section of test fuel line (that you run into a glass jar) there, to the metal nipple on top of the fuel pump?

2) Anything special I should know about, or possible mistakes to avoid, when removing the fender deck & tank? As my service manual doesn't have the procedure in it. I dwn'loaded and printed most of it a few years ago, but not the 'Technical Manual'.

If you see this and have the time...thanks very much for any & all suggestions !;-)

 

[slomo]

Hi slomo,
Did the new fuel pump do the trick? I just enjoyed reading thru this thread, and was thinking I should probably have a new fuel pump on hand as spare. I found this part # online [ Kohler Fuel Pump - Part No. 12 559 02-S - AKA Part No. 1255902S - Supersedes 12 559 01-S ]. If you can or have time to find the part # of the one that you ordered & installed, was it the same?

I haven't checked the fuel flow yet on our CV15S (as you suggested on my 'GT225 ~ no restart' thread), but will tomorrow, after picking-up some extra fuel line & a shutoff valve. Also haven't taken the carb off yet, but we did receive our ultrasonic cleaner yesterday-- so will probably try it out next week after mowing.

Nor have I replaced the ignition mod yet, but planning on also doing that.

Two questions;
1) When you hook that fuel line up to check the flow-- down stream of the fuel pump, do you suggest removing that little tiny section of rubber fuel line at the fuel pump outlet, and hooking-up the long section of test fuel line (that you run into a glass jar) there, to the metal nipple on top of the fuel pump?

2) Anything special I should know about, or possible mistakes to avoid, when removing the fender deck & tank? As my service manual doesn't have the procedure in it. I dwn'loaded and printed most of it a few years ago, but not the 'Technical Manual'.

If you see this and have the time...thanks very much for any & all suggestions !;-)

I got a cheapo Chinese fuel pump off Ebay. Was like 15 bucks. This was not my machine BTW. Helping a friend. Anywho, this sat for a couple years. Fuel lines were rotted ect... I didn't check the original pump for flow so I can't help there. The Ebay one works so far LOL. I just figured the original pump was dead from sitting dry for years.

Your ? 1, hook a test hose to the outlet of the silver hardline prior to the carb. Run into a glass jar. Bump the key a few times and watch for pulsating flow.

Your ? 2, I was working on a Simplicity tractor style with a 38" deck. That one had a metal hoop that went over the tank. Don't know what you are working on sorry.

 

[winmod21]

I got a cheapo Chinese fuel pump off Ebay. Was like 15 bucks. This was not my machine BTW. Helping a friend. Anywho, this sat for a couple years. Fuel lines were rotted ect... I didn't check the original pump for flow so I can't help there. The Ebay one works so far LOL. I just figured the original pump was dead from sitting dry for years.

Your ? 1, hook a test hose to the outlet of the silver hardline prior to the carb. Run into a glass jar. Bump the key a few times and watch for pulsating flow.

Your ? 2, I was working on a Simplicity tractor style with a 38" deck. That one had a metal hoop that went over the tank. Don't know what you are working on sorry.

Really appreciate you replying, and your answers; they'll help.

I found a Kohler # 12-559-02-S OEM fuel pump—on the Brazilian River site w/free Prime ship— that says it's "Brand New Genuine [Stens] Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) part for Kohler... We are an Authorized Kohler Dealer", although at a little over twice your price on eBay, but might get it anyway just to have a spare. Ours is a GT225 - photo of in my avatar. Have a great & happy weekend !;-)