Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?

[jagr1pooh]

i have a ztl8000 i replaced the carb and forgot to take pics of the carb linkage. can someone send a pic or two. this is what i did and it isnt working, choke does but not throttle

 

[mrmartin]

I have a few questions? You said When you have cracked engine cases on engines with very few hours it has nothing with as to how well a engine been maintained. Was this your engine and did you buy it new?

You listen to him spout these are good engines but he is nuts. To consider buying a single cylinder courage takes courage...strike that...stupidity.

 

[bertsmobile1]

You listen to him spout these are good engines but he is nuts. To consider buying a single cylinder courage takes courage...strike that...stupidity.

The cases cracked because of a design flaw that was detected and corrected . It also only affected a small number of the engines
Kohler admitted that and had probably the longest warranty replacement period in world history apart from Rolls Royce .
However for the case to crack the 4 front bolts have to back out.
This does not happen in 5 seconds, it happens over a period of YEARS .
And every YEAR the blower housing should come off to clean the cooling fins & I usually blow the dust out from under the flywheel while I am there.
If that was done & the person doing it at at least 10% vision in both eyes then the fact that the bolts were loose would have been apparent .
OTOH I have had mowers come in that "Are making a funny squeaking sound " and when I ask how long for , I get told "OH about a year or two but the mower seemed to run OK so I did not bother with it "
Blower housing comes off, which is a 1 minute job because the 4 bolts all point up so are easy to access , and what do I see ?
Three bolts with the head ground completely off and 1/16" missing from the bottom of the flywheel.

If the bone lazy or too cheap for their own good owners spent as much effort doing the maintanance that is specified in the owners manual that they refuse to bother reading that they have jumping up & down trying to find a reason to blame some one else for their own inadequacy then there would have been absolutely no problem.
There are 3 husqvarnas with sequential serial numbers in my repair run.
Only one of them had bolts that backed off & I found them on my first service .
They have all done better that 1200 hours with no problems other than the spindle housings perpetually breaking on of the mounting lugs.

I would guess that Briggs & Stratton was behind the massive amount hostility towards the courage because the courage was a 500% better engine that the corrosponding intek and shortly after it's release it became the engine of choice drastically reducing their sales volumes.

And I keep 5 Courage top gaskets on hand
OTOH I have 20 intek head gaskets in stock and I go through the whole lot for the larger engines every year
I keep 3 cam shafts for each Intek engine capacity and I use them every year
I use 1 Courage cam every 2 years.

So you can keep your ill founded opinions if that makes you happy
I would be over the moon if every one of the 300 mowers I service each year had Courage engines in them
Down side is I would loose about $ 10,000 /year I make from replacing broken or worn down Intek cams and blown Intek head gaskets

 

[0729dad]

And that is understandable being that 99%of home owners do not understand what a warranty actually is .
Make it public and every man & his dog will be bringing their mower for a "warranty blade replacement or warranty spindle replacement .
I still get people wanting warranty engine replacements on FR & FS Kwakkas where the not real good air filter elbow has been leaking and the bores are polished mirror finish from all of the dust .
Now kawasaki / Toro / JD do have some liability in so far that there should be a filter warning issued with every bagger and a recommendation to upgrade to the Donaldson style air filter.
IF the owner is too cheap and they stuff their engine then it is tough luck.
Apparently owners who come in from bagging with 3 lb of dust down the inside of their shirts still do not consider the mower to be running in "dusty " conditions.

I get what you’re saying about the bagger system and dust but why shouldn’t Kawasaki honor an engine replacement under warranty if it’s their crappy air filter design that’s causing engines to get trashed?

 

[bertsmobile1]

Because if the filter is fitted properly then it can do the job.
However it is a little difficult to fit properly and most push the tube on too far which causes it to leak.
This is a customer created problem.
The ones I fit don't leak
The factory can not control how the mower is used nor can it control what accessories the customer fits.
A dealer can advise that if you are going to bag a lot you really need to fit the FX engine with a better filter system
It is the purchaser who says "No I want the cheapest version "
Another case of Joe Public being too cheap for their own good.
My customer who first presented with the smooth bore used to get me to service his mower
Then he decided to do it himself.
It was not a problem when I was servicing the engine because I replaced the filter and checked the inside of the air tube for dust.
When he brought it in you could write your name in the dust.
However it has a FX cowl & filter now.

The Kohlers are the same
They do have a design problem but again when serviced properly it does not happen because a proper technician would check those bolt for tightness when they removed to cowl to clean the fins
The bolts do not spin out in 5 minutes, most take years to come loose and during that time oil would be seen weeping from the gasket face when the cover is removed for annual clean.
But Joe public thinks "service" is changing the oil once every 5 years and checking the tyre pressure.
I had one come in where two of the bolts had backed out so far that one had the head ground completely off and the other was rubbing so hard against the flywheel the engine could not turn over fast enough to start .
The owner did say it would loose all of the oil once or twice a season so he just kept on topping it up
SO who is at fault when the engine finally cracked ?

 

[350Rocket]

Because if the filter is fitted properly then it can do the job.
However it is a little difficult to fit properly and most push the tube on too far which causes it to leak.
This is a customer created problem.
The ones I fit don't leak
The factory can not control how the mower is used nor can it control what accessories the customer fits.
A dealer can advise that if you are going to bag a lot you really need to fit the FX engine with a better filter system
It is the purchaser who says "No I want the cheapest version "
Another case of Joe Public being too cheap for their own good.
My customer who first presented with the smooth bore used to get me to service his mower
Then he decided to do it himself.
It was not a problem when I was servicing the engine because I replaced the filter and checked the inside of the air tube for dust.
When he brought it in you could write your name in the dust.
However it has a FX cowl & filter now.

The Kohlers are the same
They do have a design problem but again when serviced properly it does not happen because a proper technician would check those bolt for tightness when they removed to cowl to clean the fins
The bolts do not spin out in 5 minutes, most take years to come loose and during that time oil would be seen weeping from the gasket face when the cover is removed for annual clean.
But Joe public thinks "service" is changing the oil once every 5 years and checking the tyre pressure.
I had one come in where two of the bolts had backed out so far that one had the head ground completely off and the other was rubbing so hard against the flywheel the engine could not turn over fast enough to start .
The owner did say it would loose all of the oil once or twice a season so he just kept on topping it up
SO who is at fault when the engine finally cracked ?

I agree with everything you've said except for your comments on synthetic oil being "incompatible". It does not splash differently or flow differently or have different oil pressure. When cold it will be not as thick as conventional but that is only a benefit. My experience has been that most good mechanics don't understand the science behind oil. Read some FAQ's at bobistheoilguy.com or just keep doing what you're doing. But the statements you made about synthetic oil may damage your credibility in other areas.
If you've seen issues "caused by synthetic" it was caused by the owner thinking they didn't have to do anything for a long time because of it. They ran it low on oil and caused starvation on a steep hill most likely.
I disagreed with Chris about his comments about every courage being junk because that's been proven otherwise, but his comments on oil were basically true. Viscosity is viscosity. Use a recommended grade and the only reason not to use synthetic is $$ cost.
I ran it in my 81 Briggs and Stratton 3hp, no oil usage of problems until I bent the crank or rod hitting a hidden bolt in the grass. Now in a 99 6hp flathead Briggs, my 76 olds V8, and soon my Kohler courage V twin 23hp. Synthetic is not required for many engines but the statements you made about it I have never seen mentioned in hours of discussions on bobistheoilguy or in their FAQ. They have a lot of knowledgeable people who worked in developing oils.

 

[Rivets]

Rocket, you have to remember that everything you see or read on the internet is the absolute truth. That includes what Bert, you, bobistheoilguy, Taryl, myself and every other person who speaks what they feel is the truth based on their knowledge and why they are posting their information. Many only do it for publicly or monetary gain and many believe everything they read. I totally agree with what Bert says about synthetic oil and don’t agree with you or bobistheoilguy. Everyone has to decide who to believe, and then make their own decisions as to what direction they wish to proceed.

 

[350Rocket]

Rocket, you have to remember that everything you see or read on the internet is the absolute truth. That includes what Bert, you, bobistheoilguy, Taryl, myself and every other person who speaks what they feel is the truth based on their knowledge and why they are posting their information. Many only do it for publicly or monetary gain and many believe everything they read. I totally agree with what Bert says about synthetic oil and don’t agree with you or bobistheoilguy. Everyone has to decide who to believe, and then make their own decisions as to what direction they wish to proceed.

Exactly!

 

[350Rocket]

I agree with your first sentence 100%. That's why I spent (or wasted) so much time researching the subject but at least now when I read a statement like "synthetic oil splashes differently" I know it to be false.

 

[350Rocket]

I will use full synthetic in my Kohler because it's cheap insurance on a hard worker engine and there is no downside to it. Mowing downhill with synthetic will never cause a failure, ever. The same people that make statements like that usually still think all Quaker state caused sludge etc