Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?

[Rivets]

Every engine manufacturer has a bad line of engines, which we have all seen. It does not matter if it is well maintained or not. Honda has the best engines I've seen, but I would never touch the line they now use for the push mowers. Even worse than the Courage line. I could say this about a Briggs line, tecumseh line and even Kaws. Just my opinion which some don't think is worth much, because I am not a professional, just a homeowner and garage mechanic.

 

[reynoldston]

I have a few questions? You said When you have cracked engine cases on engines with very few hours it has nothing with as to how well a engine been maintained. Was this your engine and did you buy it new?

This is a repair job for a customer, that being said I have know idea how this engine was used or as a matter of fact when I say low hours I may be talking through my hat because I don't know? I guess I am just going by how things look and there was no wear inside the engine. Also this is only one repair job I am talking about, so maybe it was a defect in the casting. Other then that I am seeing the same problem on the web when I was looking for a reasons this engine cracked. You said people don't know Kohler engines is the reason they crack as the way I read it? Also when I did this cracked case repair job I though the engine was very poorly designed, for one thing it had no bearings but for bearings just holes bored into the case and everything just ran on the aluminum bored holes. Also it had plastic parts like the oil pump and cam gears. Just my thought on it but I may be wrong but just the design of how the engine is made is causing it to crack. I am open for any other reason. Yes I know Kohler engines and through the years like the K, Magnum, Command models they are one of the best engines made.

 

[possum]

I myself would really like to know any and all information from real life use of the Courage single engines that has prolonged their life. I think it would be useful in the future for all who own them that come on here with concerns. Someone who has gotten several hundred hours from one would in my opinion be very useful. My dealer has seen only one Courage twin fail in the last few years. He sold and serviced it himself. The Zturn it failed on was used to mow a cemetary was over two years old and had 757 hours on the clock. He had changed the oil in it just one hour before it failed by slowing down and locking up. Engine was never torn down by the fellow who bought it for scrap. He replaced it with a engine from a wrecked mower. I looked at the engine myself and it indeed was full of new oil and locked up. Oil pump failure was the general thought. That is the only one I have seen from that dealer. He is a small dealer. The most important thing I can think of on these engines is why they fail and how to prevent it.

 

[Lawnranger]

I myself would really like to know any and all information from real life use of the Courage single engines that has prolonged their life. I think it would be useful in the future for all who own them that come on here with concerns. Someone who has gotten several hundred hours from one would in my opinion be very useful. My dealer has seen only one Courage twin fail in the last few years. He sold and serviced it himself. The Zturn it failed on was used to mow a cemetary was over two years old and had 757 hours on the clock. He had changed the oil in it just one hour before it failed by slowing down and locking up. Engine was never torn down by the fellow who bought it for scrap. He replaced it with a engine from a wrecked mower. I looked at the engine myself and it indeed was full of new oil and locked up. Oil pump failure was the general thought. That is the only one I have seen from that dealer. He is a small dealer. The most important thing I can think of on these engines is why they fail and how to prevent it.

I'll share my experience with Kohler engines. I have the "dreaded" SV 590 on my Troy-Bilt Super Bronco riding mower. I acquired this mower from a friend when it was two years old. He upgraded to a zero turn Toro and this Toro has the same Kohler single cylinder engine on it. He and I maintain a cemetery and it takes me about two hours to mow my half. I mow the cemetery once a month. I also mow my yard and the yard next door which takes one hour and I do this at least once a week but lately twice a week. I maintain the property at a church which takes me about seven hours to mow (I do not know how many acres) and I cut this every other week and last I cut a few lawns which adds another three hours a month. I do not have an hour meter on this mower, yet, so I cannot tell you how many hours it has on it but I have been using this mower in this capacity for four years and he used it extensively for the two years prior to that. Our mowing season starts in April and ends in October so for seven months out of the year this mower will see a lot of use for a residential unit. I come up with approximately 25 hours per month and I know this is not a lot for a professional but I do not do this for my primary income so I do not consider myself a professional.

Now if you take an average of 25 hours a month and multiply that by the mowing season here which is seven months, you get 175 hours a year. Multiply 175 by 4 (years that I owned the mower) and you get 700 hours on the machine. I do not know how many hours my friend put on the machine but I will guess at least 150 on the conservative side and this puts the total at 850 hours. The 850 hours is an approximation so give or take 15% either way but that still makes the hours on the engine over 700. This is the original engine and it has never been opened up. I have had to replace the valve cover gasket due to leaking but other than that I have not made any repairs to the engine.

Now on to maintenance. I change the engine oil every 50 hours (approximately every other month) and I use the generic blue bottle oil you can buy at Walmart. I also use a product called M.O.A. manufactured by BG Products. I have extensive knowledge and experience (over 27 years) with M.O.A. and I will not run a four stroke engine without using the product. I check the oil before starting the engine, clean or change the air filter as necessary and perform any other needed maintenance as required. I even go the extra mile by lubricating parts that do not have a grease fitting such as the front axle/wheel bushings and I clean the deck after each use by checking the underside and using my leaf blower on the top to remove any moisture-retaining debris. I probably spend more time doing all the little "extras" compared to the average home owner but for some strange reason my mower lasts a lot longer and requires a lot less repair. I can replace the spindle bearings for $1.75 each and it takes about 15 minutes to rebuild a spindle. I usually replace the bearings once a season whether they need it or not as I want to prevent a bearing from going bad when I'm in the middle of a job.

I know I got off on a rabbit trail but I wanted to share my experience with you as requested by possum. Why do some Courage engines last longer than others? I cannot say for sure but I do know that I did not get one of the lemons. I plan to use this mower for another season or two and then purchase a zero turn (maybe my buddy's Toro when he upgrades again). Maintenance plays a large role when it comes to longevity but some of these engines are failing early. General Motors had a bad casting at the foundry and many small block 305 c.i.d. engines would consume coolant but not leak it externally and it was discovered there was a crack in the lifter valley that would allow a small amount of coolant to seep into the engine over a period of months. This small amount of coolant would not cause the familiar "chocolate milkshake" but only drain the overflow bottle over a period of several months. Does Kohler have the same problem such as a bad foundry casting? Maybe, but percentage wise I would like to know just how many Courage engines failed. Keep in mind that there are thousands upon thousands of Courage engines out there so again, percentage wise, how bad is it really?

I hope this adds to the discussion in a positive way and that someone will benefit.

 

[benski]

I've seen an inordinate number of Courage singles totalled out in my small one person shop.:frown: They're just not built to a high enough standard, it seems, that the rest of the Kohler line is. As I often joke to myself, "It takes a lot of courage to own one of these".:biggrin: For the couple of folks that have a newly purchased one of these Courage motors, I recommend synthetic oil, and don't run it hard through high load situations. (i.e., tall and/or wet grass.)

 

[leej]

I've seen an inordinate number of Courage singles totalled out in my small one person shop.:frown: They're just not built to a high enough standard, it seems, that the rest of the Kohler line is. As I often joke to myself, "It takes a lot of courage to own one of these".:biggrin: For the couple of folks that have a newly purchased one of these Courage motors, I recommend synthetic oil, and don't run it hard through high load situations. (i.e., tall and/or wet grass.)

Could you be a little more specific on what types of failures you see the Courage singles.
I'm compairing these to Honda's GCV, Briggs L-head (Antique technology), Toro Chinese engines and Kawasaki. I'm impressed with the forced oil Kaw, but hate the aluminum cylinder on GCV's. L-head is o-o-old tech that burns exh valves and the poor combustion chamber builds carbon. The Courage XT8 has cast-iron bore and crank ball bearings. I have to wonder what fails so often and why synthetic oil?

 

[Ric]

OK this is all well and good but just what is there to know? I think that what I was asking. There just has to be a reason manufacture? poor owner operation? I know one person has no trouble and the next doses WHY

When I said What the problems are is that people don't know Kohler engines. It meant how to take care of and preform the proper maintenance.

You have people that use the wrong motor oil to start with and they recommend using the synthetic for any number of things which in reality is nothing more than a myth. The only advantage to a synthetic is that it will provide better starting in extreme cold. That crap should never touch a mower engine. That's the first problem. Read the owners manual, Kohler recommends conventional petroleum-based detergent oils.

Change the oil and oil filter every 50 hrs without fail and start with the new filter, fill it half full of oil and let it soak while you drain the oil and remove the old filter. Install the new filter and add no more than 1 1/2 quarts of oil ( keep the oil level within the safe operating range on the dipstick only ) then leave it alone and you'll never have a problem with a Kohler Courage engine.

 

[WriteAway]

New to the forum, so please correct me if this is not the place to bring this up:

I'm on the verge of buying a new Husqvarna 6021P with the 149cc Kohler Courage engine for ordinary homeowner use - not commercial use. Do the same issues regarding build quality apply to the smaller motors like this one? One that will see lighter usage, but is hoped to last me for at least 15 years, like my old B&S mower did?

Assuming I tightly follow the recommended maintenance (which I try, but can't always do), should this motor have a reasonable lifespan for a non-pro user?

And I've read here and elsewhere about the carb issues with this motor. Are these included in the overall perception of lack of quality regarding the Kohler?

Seems like the low-end push mower user is faced with mostly bad choices.

I appreciate your feedback, even if it is tells me I need to shop elsewhere. :confused2:

 

[possum]

The engines spoken of so much as to failure are not the same engines as the ones on push mowers. About the only complaint I see on them is bad carbs and bad carb parts. This spring I saw 3 husky types with the little Courages on them junked at my dealer for bad carbs. That being said I see several here in town that do a fine job and are a few years old. For the most part the smaller Courage line is just another Honda China knock off. There is a good many engines to be had on various branded lawnmowers if a person dislikes the China Honda engines. The flathead Briggs engines still are a good running engine, there is the ohv briggs engines that seem to be good, both are available in several brands. There is no shortage of engines for cheap lawnmowers.

 

[WriteAway]

The engines spoken of so much as to failure are not the same engines as the ones on push mowers. About the only complaint I see on them is bad carbs and bad carb parts. This spring I saw 3 husky types with the little Courages on them junked at my dealer for bad carbs. That being said I see several here in town that do a fine job and are a few years old. For the most part the smaller Courage line is just another Honda China knock off. There is a good many engines to be had on various branded lawnmowers if a person dislikes the China Honda engines. The flathead Briggs engines still are a good running engine, there is the ohv briggs engines that seem to be good, both are available in several brands. There is no shortage of engines for cheap lawnmowers.

Thanks for the input - that helps. Then I take it that the Courage motors are non-US-made?