Honda 20HP Starting Issue

[pugaltitude]

I have had this problem before on a mower a few years ago.
Engine would start, run and mow for 30 mins then switch off and then not restart.
Also it would produce a misfire as if running on one cylinder.

There is various things to check.

The coil caps that plug on the spark plug are resisters and they can fail. a simple ohms reading test can
Show if they are faulty.
Also the same test can be done on the high tension and low tension of each coil.
Also the diode for switching the coils off to earth can be checked.
Also the you can check and make sure the carb antifire solenoid is always working ie voltage present.
And one last thing is to isolate the electrical components from the engine to the chassis.
Is it an engine fault or a chassis fault ie safety switch etc.

Mine was cap problem.
Changed them to normalspark plug terminals and it fixed it.

 

[Scooter49]

Well I got some news for you. If the dealer can't fix it with the mower in front of him how do you think anyone can fix it a long ways off over a forum then other then a guess. When I give any answer for repairs I try to keep them generic. I have been a mechanic for over 60 years and I still have to look for problems. From the sounds of your mower not starting it has to be a moisture problem in the ignition system. If I was to look for this problem I would wet the system with water and work from there till it starts. Did I see it has two coils if so it would still run on one cylinder if it had a bad coil, but no power.

Seems like several folks here have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.

Look, you can say what you want but when I make an honest attempt to refine the information on the problem and question the responses I am receiving, you don't have to launch an attack. 60 years of experience apparently hasn't given you the knack for civil discussion on a internet board. Flaming me is your right but it doesn't earn you my respect or trust in your comments regardless of how much experience you may have. Your assumption that the dealer - MECHANIC to be correct here, knows his stuff is a big leap in faith. You have no knowledge of his experience level or what he has experience in for that matter. As I stated - the majority of the equipment that I have seen in their shop is larger heavy equipment such as Bobcat loaders and large tractors - as you should know that is far from the same thing as a lawnmower engine. When I had my mower in their shop they expressed no interest in resolving the problem and dismissed it as some phantom problem. As I have already determined on this board and a couple of other places, this is not a one, off issue. At least one other poster on this board had a similar problem. That might have provided me the help I needed IF that person had ever posted what he did to resolve the issue or IF he ever did find a solution.

The evidence points to an electrical problem. Fuel flow is fine, Switches are working but on those days when the weather has been damp, something in the ignition system is not connecting. AND with very few exceptions, the improbable solution of using a hair dryer has worked. The question I have posed is does anyone have a clue as to what on the back of a Honda V-Twin engine would be collections moisture to the point of causing a failure of the system. I can certainly replace both coils but spending about $100.00 parts just on a suggestion is not something I consider an easy or great decision. Throwing money at a problem isn't the way I was raised and I think that most folks who post on here are also looking to save turning their equipment over to a mechanic to do a hunt for a problem such as this. I would expect that a mechanic experienced in small engines, especially Honda brand engines would have run across this problem before. Apparently those who have are not on this board or haven't checked in here yet.

 

[Tom59]

You cannot detect inflection in a post , sorry. :wink: I am almost always in a good mood. :smile: What I don't get is people are giving their time to help you and you never fully stated all the things you've tried or checked. Nobody here can test parts for you. :smile:

I still haven't read whether you checked spark when it won't start. :smile: Happy face. I also haven't seen the engine model number posted. I'm guessing GX620
I know there is a recall for fastraks and starting issues did you check for a recall through Hustler on this. -starter relay kit- No idea what yr the recall covers or what yrs had issues.

Voltage regulator , Coils , engine cutoff diode, charging stator coil. :smile:

NEW SET OF 2 Ignition Coils Left AND Right Fits Honda GX620 20HP V Twin Engines | eBay :smile:

 

[reynoldston]

You live in Arkansas and I live in New York. We don't know each other and I sure don't know your mower dealer. I have never seen your mower or know anything about it. This is just a forum and I was just trying to give you some idea what to look for. No one here can fix your mower here but you. The nice thing here is I can just avoid you from now on.

 

[Scooter49]

Re: Honda 18HP Starting Issue

Thanks for the pointers one and all.

Unfortunately the info I had on the engine was slightly off so the title of 20HP is incorrect the model is GXV610 an 18HP unit. I edited the initial post to correct these items.

As to spark check - correct - not starting = no spark when I check that (Both sides). Fuel if fine in fact if you crank it too long the gas smell becomes obvious.

Switches all appear to be working fine. Since no air is applied to the area of the switches (Hair Dryer) I have to assume that the part (s) at fault are on the engine proper. So far based on comments and research it does appear to be related to the coils of the stop diodes. It has been hot and dry lately so no chance to test any of the other remedies suggested such as using WD40 on the coil to ward off the moisture.

This is a long term issue and since the engine does actually start and run it doesn't appear to be an outright failure of a part but rather a part that is failing only when sufficient moisture is around to stop the flow of electricity. Seat Kill switch has been checked (bypassed) the usual easy electrical process checks.

In honesty I was just hoping to find others with the same issue and see what they had done to fix the problem. The fact that it's a total shut down with no spark on either side and only a temporary condition is the thing the is puzzling.
As to the recall I inquired of Hustler yesterday to make sure that my engine is exactly what I believe it to be and that was confirmed but they didn't mention a recall in their response.

Again I'll keep trying to trace this down.

For now I have to get ready to rebuild the spindles with new bearings. The whine is getting worse and I want to head that off before it damages the shafts or housings.

ONE more question - on the Hustlers circa 2004 what lubrication is provided to the idler pulleys ? I found nothing in the maintenance guides and while I may have missed it I can't believe that they would be permanently sealed bearing units.

 

[Rivets]

I have stayed out of this one for as long as I can, but there is one mistake that the OP has made when ever you work on electrical problems. That mistake is assuming something is working properly. As I have posted in the past, there are three things that must be done in electrical diagnosis. 1. Check everything, meaning every wire, connection, component, etc. 2. Verify everything you check, meaning does it work in all conditions of operation. 3. Assume nothing, meaning just because it is working, does not mean it is working properly. Have I seen problems like this, YES. Are they easy to solve, NO. The members on this forum are trying to help, and not at least trying the suggestions, does not set well with your credibility. We are thousand miles apart and as posted, we cannot see or feel your equipment. It you don't like the answers we give, that is your choice, but don't knock us for trying. Most of the members who are trying to help have thousands of hours experience working on small engines, but we will tell you that very seldom two are alike, especially with electrical problems. The best test that I saw was two wet the unit down and start testing. Why haven't you tried this. Second is using a lube, WD-40, as a protectant on certain areas to narrow the problem down. These two suggestions, when used together, might just work to help you solve the problem. Is it going to take time, yes, but you do want to solve the problem and there is no easy solution we can give you. I have not see anyone say just start replacing parts, but have seen many say, you are going to have to get down and dirty, because there is no simple answer to your question. I guess you now have to make a choice. Either start following the suggestions posted, or tell us that we don't know what we are talking about and stop looking for answers here, as you know more than we do and can't help you. My opinion is that you feel we are just like your mechanic and want you to spend big bucks to solve your problem. THAT'S WHY WE DO THIS FOR FREE.

 

[Tom59]

^^Exactly electrical problems are a pita. Or can be - I am much better fixing them when my meter can touch them. Rule of thumb , rule nothing out electrically. Anything that shuts it off can be an issue.

Electrical problems usually don't happen the same way to everyone even on the same machine. If it did it would be recalled and serviced - for most good companies.

READ THROUGH HERE:
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/hustler-forum/4085-fastrak-any-issues.html

 

[Tom59]

If all else fails :

 

[DaveTN]

God help the poor owner and the mechanic who is burdened with an "intermittent electrical problem". Most any mechanic in the field from B&S to Porsche, to Cummins, to Ferrari to Rolls Royce Jet Engines will tell you that electrical is probably the biggest headache area to contend with! Somehow electrical and moisture are arch enemies and corrosion is the fellow in the middle. As "Rivets" said in an earlier post..."Assume nothing when it comes to the electrical system!" (paraphrased) Personally I HATE electrical diagnosis and when I was an apprentice electrician I found house and commercial wiring a breeze compared to automotive and small gas engine electrical problems. Still do! Let's all go back to page 1 and begin over. Surely a small electrical Grimlin lurking in the electrical system can't stump all of us? My attempt to find this Gremlin would begin with tests by meter, test light, and hopefully some LUCK!!

 

[Scooter49]

After I finally was able to get ahold of the shop where I bought the mower their mechanic explained how a failed coil could cause my problem. After checking once again I found that there was spark on side but not the other. Replaced coil problem solved.

Apparently the heat applied can temporarily revived a failed coil in some cases. Additionally, according the local shop mechanic, there is enough connection (?) that a weak coil can draw from a good coil. That I didn't understand but in any case I found that one dead/weak coil was enough to keep the engine from running at all.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and ideas.