GT225 w/ Kohler CV15S engine - starts ok; runs & mows great, doesn't sputter or die; but once turned off...won't restart. FIXED !=))

[bertsmobile1]

brake locks on
so it is a long stretch over the engine to the key
i have a switch that clips onto the solenoid trigger wire that i use to crank engines
but when on site i turn the key

 

[slomo]

but once turned off...won't restart​

To me, sounds like a partial safety switch working and not working. Check operation of the brake/clutch pedal and switch while trying to start.

Verify the choke is working proper.

The last 15S I worked on sat for 10 years. Installed a cheap-o Ebay fuel pump for 15 bucks. Has pulsating pressurized fuel flow AT the carb. Check fuel flow AT the carb into a glass jar while cranking the engine.

 

[StarTech]

When engine wouldn't start after running a good while check for spark. I have seen a few coils that gets heat soaked after shut down and would not work.

 

[winmod21]

but once turned off...won't restart​

To me, sounds like a partial safety switch working and not working. Check operation of the brake/clutch pedal and switch while trying to start.

Verify the choke is working proper.

The last 15S I worked on sat for 10 years. Installed a cheap-o Ebay fuel pump for 15 bucks. Has pulsating pressurized fuel flow AT the carb. Check fuel flow AT the carb into a glass jar while cranking the engine.

Thank you, slomo !;-) I did look at the switch, and press it with my finger, and it does feel like it's working. And if I don't push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward to engage the switch....the ignition switch doesn't work and the engine doesn't crank. But if I do push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward, against the switch, the engine does crank, so I've been presuming that the switch is fine. Does that sound like it could still be suspect to you?

The choke has always seemed to work; when applied during cold starting/cranking-- it does make the engine start. When applied when engine is warm & running-- it does make the engine stutter. Should I be testing it further?

I have read the procedures in the [CV15S Service Manual > Carb Troubleshooting] re checking the fuel flow at fuel pump > and then carb, but haven't done so as yet. Except for noticing hardly any fuel (less than 1/8") in the clear fuel filter (right side - before fuel pump) on Memorial Day weekend, when it first began not restarting. Hence was wondering about fuel gum residue blocking the fuel line inlet at the fuel tank? And have been considering pulling the tank to have it washed. But then, after pushing the JD back & forth, and cranking it some more, the fuel filter did fill-up and look normal.

The fuel pump (mechanical I think) is on the right side, with a metal fuel line crossing over the top of the engine to the carb, with not much slack in the short rubber section at the carb. So you must have to prop-up some boxes or bags of feed or something...to support the glass jar? Because, as I mentioned to bertsmobile, don't I have to be sitting in the seat, depressing the brake/clutch pedal against its safety switch ?:~\ Thanks again very much for your suggestions!

Btw, I did order an ultrasonic cleaner yesterday. I've never used one; would you recommend putting the whole carb in it? Or taking the carb apart first?

 

[winmod21]

When engine wouldn't start after running a good while check for spark. I have seen a few coils that gets heat soaked after shut down and would not work.

Thank you, StarTech !;-) I did purchase a brand new Kohler ignition module last summer, just to have as a spare, so it's still sitting new in the box, but I wasn't thinking that could be the problem—or that there was any issue with the IM—since I cleaned the grass from it, and the engine cooling fins, and reset the gap a little less than 2 yrs ago, which did cure the sudden sputtering & dying while mowing problem it was having on days of 80+ degrees!
After doing that (the cleaning off & gap setting), the sputtering & mysteriously dying (after 30+ mins of running great) went away, and it still hasn't reoccurred. So I guess that's why I was assuming that the IM was fine, and wasn't thinking it could be faulty internally. But I just read another post about how the coil (ignition module) can fail internally, over time. So I think I'll put that new coil on tomorrow, and see if that helps!
As I'm not looking forward to taking off the carb and cleaning it. ;~\ But if I do pull the carb as well, do you recommend doing the ultrasonic cleaner bath (I ordered one yesterday), and if so, do you know if it's typical to just drop the whole carb in the cleaner, or do you take the carb apart first, and/or not put every part in the cleaner, I'm wondering. Thanks again!

 

[winmod21]

"We are talking about removing the float bowl, cranking the engine while holding the float up with a finger.
Spark plug removed & grounded on the far side of the engine to avoid fire because you will be spilling fuel. so near an open door or outside.
pressurising the CARB fuel line. all we are trying to do is check that the float is cutting off the inlet .
If yours has a mechanical pump then ( from memory ) it will have a longer needle than a gravity or impulse carb
And by longer we are talking 0.005" to 0.010"

brake locks on
so it is a long stretch over the engine to the key
i have a switch that clips onto the solenoid trigger wire that i use to crank engines
but when on site i turn the key

Oh!.... put the parking brake on? So the brake/clutch pedal safety switch is depressed? Duh! Why didn't I think of that? !;-)
Then stand by carb and reach over to turn key-- before pressing the float up? Or press the float up first? Thanks again for explaining.

And so by "pressurizing the fuel line".... you mean doing so by turning the key and cranking the engine, to see if the fuel flow is decreased?
"Off the mower I flip them upside down and pressurize the fuel line."
. . as I'm still not followin' ya there. After you take the carb off, how do you pressurize the fuel line?

 

[Fish]

If it runs great otherwise, put an inline fuel shutoff on your fuel line, and shut it off when not running.

 

[winmod21]

If it runs great otherwise, put an inline fuel shutoff on your fuel line, and shut it off when not running.
View attachment 61007

Thanks, Fish !;-) I will try that too! I wonder if it might help to shutoff the fuel before turning off the ignition switch?

 

[slomo]

And if I don't push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward to engage the switch....the ignition switch doesn't work and the engine doesn't crank. But if I do push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward, against the switch, the engine does crank, so I've been presuming that the switch is fine. Does that sound like it could still be suspect to you?

Nope, sounds like it works as it should. Just make sure the pedal and the safety switch adjustment height, if any, are adjusted proper.

The choke has always seemed to work; when applied during cold starting/cranking-- it does make the engine start. When applied when engine is warm & running-- it does make the engine stutter. Should I be testing it further?

Again from what you wrote, the choke is working fine.

Except for noticing hardly any fuel (less than 1/8") in the clear fuel filter

Normally the filter will have an air pocket. You would think it would be full especially with a pump on it. Just make sure you have good flow AT the carb.

But then, after pushing the JD back & forth, and cranking it some more, the fuel filter did fill-up and look normal.

You might of washed some trash or gum that made it past the filter into the carb. Or dislodged some trash in the tank. Dump the tank and super clean it. Install new fuel line, only a couple bucks. New filter would be nice and a shutoff while you are there.

The fuel pump (mechanical I think) is on the right side, with a metal fuel line crossing over the top of the engine to the carb, with not much slack in the short rubber section at the carb.

All correct. A hard line over the top of the engine. Yes mechanical pump.

So you must have to prop-up some boxes or bags of feed or something...to support the glass jar? Because, as I mentioned to bertsmobile, don't I have to be sitting in the seat, depressing the brake/clutch pedal against its safety switch

Just hook a new piece of fuel line up to the hard line that goes to the carb. On the LEFT or carb side of the engine. Run the hose into a jar. Crank it a couple times and watch the fuel flow. Should pulsate out of the pump if the pump is good.

Btw, I did order an ultrasonic cleaner yesterday. I've never used one; would you recommend putting the whole carb in it? Or taking the carb apart first?

Don't waste your time on those gimmick toys. Take the carb apart. All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body. Needle, bowl gasket, float and such. Boil clean it on your cooktop/stove. Bertsmobile1 has the recipe for that. I feel that boiling heat is the key to getting a good deep clean on these carbs. Those ultra cleaners don't get as hot as your stove top will.

 

[winmod21]

Nope, sounds like it works as it should. Just make sure the pedal and the safety switch adjustment height, if any, are adjusted proper.

Thanks very much for all your advise, slomo !;-) I will check it all, including the safety switch 'adjustment height'.

Again from what you wrote, the choke is working fine.

Okay thanks. ;-)

Normally the filter will have an air pocket. You would think it would be full especially with a pump on it. Just make sure you have good flow AT the carb.

It did fill back up eventually. I will check the flow at the carb; need to go buy a shutoff & some extra fuel line first. ;-)

You might of washed some trash or gum that made it past the filter into the carb. Or dislodged some trash in the tank. Dump the tank and super clean it. Install new fuel line, only a couple bucks. New filter would be nice and a shutoff while you are there.

Did install a new filter last autumn, and it still looks clean. Have been contemplating pulling the tank—to get it washed; a local place says they'll do it for $10~$20—but wasn't excited about doing so. Is it a big hassle, or is it no big deal to take off the fender deck & pull tank?

All correct. A hard line over the top of the engine. Yes mechanical pump.

Thanks ;-)

Just hook a new piece of fuel line up to the hard line that goes to the carb. On the right side of the engine. Run the hose into a jar. Crank it a couple times and watch the fuel flow. Should pulsate out of the pump if the pump is good.

Do you mean, hook the fuel line to the hard line on the left side (where our carb is located), or hook the new long piece of fuel line to the fuel pump outlet (which is on the right side), after disconnecting the hard line from fuel pump?

Don't waste your time on those gimmick toys. Take the carb apart. All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body. Needle, bowl gasket, float and such. Boil clean it on your cooktop/stove. Bertsmobile1 has the recipe for that. I feel that boiling heat is the key to getting a good deep clean on these carbs. Those ultra cleaners don't get as hot as your stove top will.

Whoops! Well as mentioned, I ordered one yesterday. But it can be returned very easily, within 3.5 weeks.

I did rebuild a 4-barrel Carter carb in the 80's, on my Ford PU w/300 CID engine; took everything apart and cleaned it; replacing the rebuild parts; but I didn't know what I was doing, and I don't recall how I did it !;~\ Hope I'm not coming down with Some-timers !;~\
Btw, back in those days, we had a 47' Ford pickup restored to orig condition, in the Village Green & Tacoma Cream colors, and I also had a 48' Ford F-1, and a 51' Mercury M, and a 52' Ford F-2, all of which I purchased from the original owners whilst upland bird hunting—for Shaprtail Grouse, Sage Grouse, Hungarian Partridge & Chukar Partridge, and Mountain & Valley Quail &c.
Anyways, I didn't personally rebuild any of the other carbs, so thanks for explaining what not to boil and/or not put in the ultrasonic cleaner. ;-)