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Hello to all --
Any help will be much appreciated. I believe it's the original Walbro carb (# 75 3349 1205393). Last year it had a broken fuel solenoid wire and was having starting problems, and some very helpful gentlemen here suggested that I forget about the wire, and cut-off the little spring-loaded vertical rod at the top of the fuel solenoid; then to compensate, let the engine idle for approx 30 secs before shutting it off (to compensate or counteract for the fuel solenoids' spring-loaded vertical rod being cut off), (couldn't find the thread).

Anyways, that worked great last summer. But now, the Kohler CV15S is starting okay (sometimes a little hard), and is currently running super great & strong (Skookum !=) without any sputtering or dying. But when I do need to shut it off, for whatever.... then it will just crank & crank & crank, and after a few tries....smell like it's flooded; then if I continually try, cranking it over & over, it'll occasionally make a very loud backfire, followed by a few more intermittent backfires, before eventually starting-up again, though very roughly at first, by which time I'm about to give up for fear of discharging the battery too much.

I do have a spare carb that I purchased last year from SES, but didn't install it - as I was hoping to just use the fuel solenoid off of it, but the fuel solenoid was different (shorter, squatty one - prob fr China), and wouldn't screw on due to the little black wire connector box on the side of the fuel solenoid. So that's when I decided to cut the spring-loaded vertical rod off the top (where it screws into the carb bowl) of my orig fuel solenoid. Which again, helped with poor starting issues, but now I'm having the 'won't restart' problem :~\ ...after mowing for awhile.

Thinking of putting the new carb on . . . but after doing so, are they hard to fine tune for idling & running &c?

Apologies for my long-winded rambling. Any ideas will be welcomed greatly !;-)
Jack

sgkent said:

12853178S was the factory carb you needed based on your prior post. Be sure to check it against your model and serial number before buying one. Your model shows it has a fuel pump too. Sounds like it is too rich after being shutoff. Make sure the air cleaner is clean. I only use factory carbs when I replace one. Lowest price I saw for a genuine one was $140. Good luck.

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Thanks sgkent !;-)
Yes, that's the carb I ordered last year, but haven't installed yet. It is the Kohler replacement; was $165 @ SES.
I haven't touched or checked the fuel pump, other than fuel flow to the carb does look good. I do clean the air filter almost every time I mow; replaced it last year; the green outside foam is looking a little dirty-- so time to wash it again. Originally Scot and Native American here too ;-)

Sound really like the carb float is not doing it's job
There is a specific range of air to fuel ratios that will burn at compression pressures .
IF it does not burn it will accumulate in the muffler and when the air: fuel ratio in the muffler is right and there is some ignition source then the fuel in the muffler will ignite.
If not it will accumulate , condense and dribble out.
If the carb is flooding badly then liquid fuel will ooze out of the carb run down into the cylinder & be blown out the exhaust unburned because only gasses can burn .

bertsmobile1 said:

Sound really like the carb float is not doing it's job
There is a specific range of air to fuel ratios that will burn at compression pressures .
IF it does not burn it will accumulate in the muffler and when the air: fuel ratio in the muffler is right and there is some ignition source then the fuel in the muffler will ignite.
If not it will accumulate , condense and dribble out.
If the carb is flooding badly then liquid fuel will ooze out of the carb run down into the cylinder & be blown out the exhaust unburned because only gasses can burn .

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Hi Bert ! Hope all is well with You & Yours down under.
You know, that sounds exactly like what is happening and what the condition/issue is ! Everything you described there...is what it feels and sounds and smells like is happening! What am I to do ?;-)

. . . I went and ordered an ultrasonic cleaner today (even though there's massive amounts of reviews stating that they all pretty much quit working or break after awhile :~\), and figured I'd try cleaning the carb — and seeing if that helps it start better, before resorting to installing the brand new Kohler replacement carb [#12 853 178-S] that I bought last year — although I've yet to find out if put the whole carb in it, or if I should take the carb apart first? Or not put some parts of it in the Ultra-cleaner? How do you recommend cleaning them? And may that possibly fix a sticking float? Thanks again ;-)

take the carburettor off and clean the float needle & seat
I like to remove the float bowl while it is on the mower & check that the fuel stops flowing well before the the float touches the carb body
Off the mower I flip them upside down and pressurise the fuel line .
I have found that is the weight of the float holds around 7psi then the float will work in the engine.

The caveat to this is some carbs are designed to work with gravity feeds and others are designed to work with impulse pumps while others still work with mechanical pumps and all of these have different cut off pressures .

bertsmobile1 said:

1--- take the carburettor off and clean the float needle & seat
2--- I like to remove the float bowl while it is on the mower & check that the fuel stops flowing well before the the float touches the carb body
3--- Off the mower I flip them upside down and pressurise the fuel line .
I have found that is the weight of the float holds around 7psi then the float will work in the engine.

4--- The caveat to this is some carbs are designed to work with gravity feeds and others are designed to work with impulse pumps while others still work with mechanical pumps and all of these have different cut off pressures .

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Thanks,
1--- Do those things instead of the ultrasonic bath?
2--- When I do that, with the engine off, I get maybe 3~4 tablespoons of gas in the plastic bowl I set below carb before unscrewing the fuel solenoid. After screwing the fuel solenoid back in (btw, should the fuel solenoid be causing the bottom of the bowl to concave upwards ?:~\ ), the engine seems to always start within a few more attempts. But are you talking about removing the bowl with the engine running...and then pushing the float up against the carb inner body with your finger...to see if the engine starts to sputter due to the fuel being cut-off by doing so ? Not sure I comprehend ya there ;-)
3--- "pressurize the fuel line"....(ehem, with a 'z' ;-).... all the way back to the tank?
4--- Our Kohler CV15S is a mechanical, I think.

. . .gotta scoot for dinner; be back later Thanks again!

We are talking about removing the float bowl, cranking the engine while holding the float up with a finger.
Spark plug removed & grounded on the far side of the engine to avoid fire because you will be spilling fuel. so near an open door or outside.
pressurising the CARB fuel line. all we are trying to do is check that the float is cutting off the inlet .
If yours has a mechanical pump then ( from memory ) it will have a longer needle than a gravity or impulse carb
And by longer we are talking 0.005" to 0.010"

bertsmobile1 said:

We are talking about removing the float bowl, cranking the engine while holding the float up with a finger.
Spark plug removed & grounded on the far side of the engine to avoid fire because you will be spilling fuel. so near an open door or outside.
pressurising the CARB fuel line. all we are trying to do is check that the float is cutting off the inlet .
If yours has a mechanical pump then ( from memory ) it will have a longer needle than a gravity or impulse carb
And by longer we are talking 0.005" to 0.010"

Click to expand...

Okay. Not clear. Leave spark plug in spark plug wire and ground plug with something like an alligator clip to frame? As I only have two hands. Btw, plug is already on far side of engine. And not sure how I'd hold the float up whilst cranking engine, cuz if I'm not mistaken, one needs to depress the brake pedal safety switch -- which is on the other side from carb. And does the engine crank with the seat safety switch not being sat on? I'm a bit fuzzy on those things, but will try to catch up !;-)

brake locks on
so it is a long stretch over the engine to the key
i have a switch that clips onto the solenoid trigger wire that i use to crank engines
but when on site i turn the key

but once turned off...won't restart​

To me, sounds like a partial safety switch working and not working. Check operation of the brake/clutch pedal and switch while trying to start.

Verify the choke is working proper.

The last 15S I worked on sat for 10 years. Installed a cheap-o Ebay fuel pump for 15 bucks. Has pulsating pressurized fuel flow AT the carb. Check fuel flow AT the carb into a glass jar while cranking the engine.

When engine wouldn't start after running a good while check for spark. I have seen a few coils that gets heat soaked after shut down and would not work.

slomo said:

but once turned off...won't restart​

To me, sounds like a partial safety switch working and not working. Check operation of the brake/clutch pedal and switch while trying to start.

Verify the choke is working proper.

The last 15S I worked on sat for 10 years. Installed a cheap-o Ebay fuel pump for 15 bucks. Has pulsating pressurized fuel flow AT the carb. Check fuel flow AT the carb into a glass jar while cranking the engine.

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Thank you, slomo !;-) I did look at the switch, and press it with my finger, and it does feel like it's working. And if I don't push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward to engage the switch....the ignition switch doesn't work and the engine doesn't crank. But if I do push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward, against the switch, the engine does crank, so I've been presuming that the switch is fine. Does that sound like it could still be suspect to you?

The choke has always seemed to work; when applied during cold starting/cranking-- it does make the engine start. When applied when engine is warm & running-- it does make the engine stutter. Should I be testing it further?

I have read the procedures in the [CV15S Service Manual > Carb Troubleshooting] re checking the fuel flow at fuel pump > and then carb, but haven't done so as yet. Except for noticing hardly any fuel (less than 1/8") in the clear fuel filter (right side - before fuel pump) on Memorial Day weekend, when it first began not restarting. Hence was wondering about fuel gum residue blocking the fuel line inlet at the fuel tank? And have been considering pulling the tank to have it washed. But then, after pushing the JD back & forth, and cranking it some more, the fuel filter did fill-up and look normal.

The fuel pump (mechanical I think) is on the right side, with a metal fuel line crossing over the top of the engine to the carb, with not much slack in the short rubber section at the carb. So you must have to prop-up some boxes or bags of feed or something...to support the glass jar? Because, as I mentioned to bertsmobile, don't I have to be sitting in the seat, depressing the brake/clutch pedal against its safety switch ?:~\ Thanks again very much for your suggestions!

Btw, I did order an ultrasonic cleaner yesterday. I've never used one; would you recommend putting the whole carb in it? Or taking the carb apart first?

StarTech said:

When engine wouldn't start after running a good while check for spark. I have seen a few coils that gets heat soaked after shut down and would not work.

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Thank you, StarTech !;-) I did purchase a brand new Kohler ignition module last summer, just to have as a spare, so it's still sitting new in the box, but I wasn't thinking that could be the problem—or that there was any issue with the IM—since I cleaned the grass from it, and the engine cooling fins, and reset the gap a little less than 2 yrs ago, which did cure the sudden sputtering & dying while mowing problem it was having on days of 80+ degrees!
After doing that (the cleaning off & gap setting), the sputtering & mysteriously dying (after 30+ mins of running great) went away, and it still hasn't reoccurred. So I guess that's why I was assuming that the IM was fine, and wasn't thinking it could be faulty internally. But I just read another post about how the coil (ignition module) can fail internally, over time. So I think I'll put that new coil on tomorrow, and see if that helps!
As I'm not looking forward to taking off the carb and cleaning it. ;~\ But if I do pull the carb as well, do you recommend doing the ultrasonic cleaner bath (I ordered one yesterday), and if so, do you know if it's typical to just drop the whole carb in the cleaner, or do you take the carb apart first, and/or not put every part in the cleaner, I'm wondering. Thanks again!

"We are talking about removing the float bowl, cranking the engine while holding the float up with a finger.
Spark plug removed & grounded on the far side of the engine to avoid fire because you will be spilling fuel. so near an open door or outside.
pressurising the CARB fuel line. all we are trying to do is check that the float is cutting off the inlet .
If yours has a mechanical pump then ( from memory ) it will have a longer needle than a gravity or impulse carb
And by longer we are talking 0.005" to 0.010"

Click to expand...

bertsmobile1 said:

brake locks on
so it is a long stretch over the engine to the key
i have a switch that clips onto the solenoid trigger wire that i use to crank engines
but when on site i turn the key

Click to expand...

Oh!.... put the parking brake on? So the brake/clutch pedal safety switch is depressed? Duh! Why didn't I think of that? !;-)
Then stand by carb and reach over to turn key-- before pressing the float up? Or press the float up first? Thanks again for explaining.

And so by "pressurizing the fuel line".... you mean doing so by turning the key and cranking the engine, to see if the fuel flow is decreased?
"Off the mower I flip them upside down and pressurize the fuel line."
. . as I'm still not followin' ya there. After you take the carb off, how do you pressurize the fuel line?

If it runs great otherwise, put an inline fuel shutoff on your fuel line, and shut it off when not running.

Fish said:

If it runs great otherwise, put an inline fuel shutoff on your fuel line, and shut it off when not running.
View attachment 61007

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Thanks, Fish !;-) I will try that too! I wonder if it might help to shutoff the fuel before turning off the ignition switch?

winmod21 said:

And if I don't push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward to engage the switch....the ignition switch doesn't work and the engine doesn't crank. But if I do push the brake/clutch pedal fully forward, against the switch, the engine does crank, so I've been presuming that the switch is fine. Does that sound like it could still be suspect to you?

Click to expand...

Nope, sounds like it works as it should. Just make sure the pedal and the safety switch adjustment height, if any, are adjusted proper.

winmod21 said:

The choke has always seemed to work; when applied during cold starting/cranking-- it does make the engine start. When applied when engine is warm & running-- it does make the engine stutter. Should I be testing it further?

Click to expand...

Again from what you wrote, the choke is working fine.

winmod21 said:

Except for noticing hardly any fuel (less than 1/8") in the clear fuel filter

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Normally the filter will have an air pocket. You would think it would be full especially with a pump on it. Just make sure you have good flow AT the carb.

winmod21 said:

But then, after pushing the JD back & forth, and cranking it some more, the fuel filter did fill-up and look normal.

Click to expand...

You might of washed some trash or gum that made it past the filter into the carb. Or dislodged some trash in the tank. Dump the tank and super clean it. Install new fuel line, only a couple bucks. New filter would be nice and a shutoff while you are there.

winmod21 said:

The fuel pump (mechanical I think) is on the right side, with a metal fuel line crossing over the top of the engine to the carb, with not much slack in the short rubber section at the carb.

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All correct. A hard line over the top of the engine. Yes mechanical pump.

winmod21 said:

So you must have to prop-up some boxes or bags of feed or something...to support the glass jar? Because, as I mentioned to bertsmobile, don't I have to be sitting in the seat, depressing the brake/clutch pedal against its safety switch

Click to expand...

Just hook a new piece of fuel line up to the hard line that goes to the carb. On the LEFT or carb side of the engine. Run the hose into a jar. Crank it a couple times and watch the fuel flow. Should pulsate out of the pump if the pump is good.

winmod21 said:

Btw, I did order an ultrasonic cleaner yesterday. I've never used one; would you recommend putting the whole carb in it? Or taking the carb apart first?

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Don't waste your time on those gimmick toys. Take the carb apart. All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body. Needle, bowl gasket, float and such. Boil clean it on your cooktop/stove. Bertsmobile1 has the recipe for that. I feel that boiling heat is the key to getting a good deep clean on these carbs. Those ultra cleaners don't get as hot as your stove top will.

slomo said:

Nope, sounds like it works as it should. Just make sure the pedal and the safety switch adjustment height, if any, are adjusted proper.

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Thanks very much for all your advise, slomo !;-) I will check it all, including the safety switch 'adjustment height'.

slomo said:

Again from what you wrote, the choke is working fine.

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Okay thanks. ;-)

slomo said:

Normally the filter will have an air pocket. You would think it would be full especially with a pump on it. Just make sure you have good flow AT the carb.

Click to expand...

It did fill back up eventually. I will check the flow at the carb; need to go buy a shutoff & some extra fuel line first. ;-)

slomo said:

You might of washed some trash or gum that made it past the filter into the carb. Or dislodged some trash in the tank. Dump the tank and super clean it. Install new fuel line, only a couple bucks. New filter would be nice and a shutoff while you are there.

Click to expand...

Did install a new filter last autumn, and it still looks clean. Have been contemplating pulling the tank—to get it washed; a local place says they'll do it for $10~$20—but wasn't excited about doing so. Is it a big hassle, or is it no big deal to take off the fender deck & pull tank?

slomo said:

All correct. A hard line over the top of the engine. Yes mechanical pump.

Click to expand...

Thanks ;-)

slomo said:

Just hook a new piece of fuel line up to the hard line that goes to the carb. On the right side of the engine. Run the hose into a jar. Crank it a couple times and watch the fuel flow. Should pulsate out of the pump if the pump is good.

Click to expand...

Do you mean, hook the fuel line to the hard line on the left side (where our carb is located), or hook the new long piece of fuel line to the fuel pump outlet (which is on the right side), after disconnecting the hard line from fuel pump?

slomo said:

Don't waste your time on those gimmick toys. Take the carb apart. All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body. Needle, bowl gasket, float and such. Boil clean it on your cooktop/stove. Bertsmobile1 has the recipe for that. I feel that boiling heat is the key to getting a good deep clean on these carbs. Those ultra cleaners don't get as hot as your stove top will.

Click to expand...

Whoops! Well as mentioned, I ordered one yesterday. But it can be returned very easily, within 3.5 weeks.

I did rebuild a 4-barrel Carter carb in the 80's, on my Ford PU w/300 CID engine; took everything apart and cleaned it; replacing the rebuild parts; but I didn't know what I was doing, and I don't recall how I did it !;~\ Hope I'm not coming down with Some-timers !;~\
Btw, back in those days, we had a 47' Ford pickup restored to orig condition, in the Village Green & Tacoma Cream colors, and I also had a 48' Ford F-1, and a 51' Mercury M, and a 52' Ford F-2, all of which I purchased from the original owners whilst upland bird hunting—for Shaprtail Grouse, Sage Grouse, Hungarian Partridge & Chukar Partridge, and Mountain & Valley Quail &c.
Anyways, I didn't personally rebuild any of the other carbs, so thanks for explaining what not to boil and/or not put in the ultrasonic cleaner. ;-)

" All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body."


Good advice to follow in all facets of life...

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions & advice !;-) I really appreciate the help & advise. I'll try to work on them over the weekend and report back next week.

Fish said:

" All the plastic and rubber items need to be out of the main body."
Good advice to follow in all facets of life...

Click to expand...

Thanks Fish !;-) I'll try to remember that !;-)

I corrected my false info about fuel flow.

On the LEFT side or carb side of the engine. Hook a new piece of fuel line to the hard line that goes to the carb. Then run that hose into a big quart size glass jar or larger. Let it flow for a good bit. Can pour it back into the tank if clean. This is after your filter.

Look for a pulsating fuel flow from the fuel pump when cranking the engine over. Should resemble a heart beat like pulse.

slomo said:

I corrected my false info about fuel flow.

On the LEFT side or carb side of the engine. Hook a new piece of fuel line to the hard line that goes to the carb. Then run that hose into a big quart size glass jar or larger. Let it flow for a good bit. Can pour it back into the tank if clean. This is after your filter.

Look for a pulsating fuel flow from the fuel pump when cranking the engine over. Should resemble a heart beat like pulse.

Click to expand...

Thanks very much, slomo !;-) That's exactly what I figured, after reading your post(s). Really appreciate your kind help & advise !

Another satisfied customer.

StarTech said:

When engine wouldn't start after running a good while check for spark. I have seen a few coils that gets heat soaked after shut down and would not work.

Click to expand...

That was it! The magneto ignition module! Even though the existing one looked fine & w/good .010 gap, and good kill wire & spark wire.... as soon as I replaced it with a new magneto ignition module, (ehem, in a rather Chevy Chase-esque 'Sparky' sort of way :~\ ), the GT225 fires right up every time after being turned-off after any period of mowing! Starts instantly every time & runs super great !=))
So again, thanks very very much, StarTech, for sharing your experiences & advice !! And thanks as well to all who posted suggestions & advice.

I'm thinking I should probably leave the carb and good enough alone for now, and save the carb & tank cleaning for wintertime.

winmod21 said:

I'm thinking I should probably leave the carb and good enough alone for now, and save the carb & tank cleaning for wintertime.

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Glad to hear she's running.

Agree shes running, leave her alone till winter. Good winter project anyway. Yard sale crock pot and a dishwasher soap pod at 200 degrees.

slomo said:

Glad to hear she's running.
Agree shes running, leave her alone till winter. Good winter project anyway. Yard sale crock pot and a dishwasher soap pod at 200 degrees.

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Thanks for that yard sale/used crock pot idea! I may just try that this winter !;-) We considering returning the ultrasonic cleaner, even though it did make the Mrs's jewelry really sparkle, we'd probably rarely use it.

winmod21 said:

Thanks for that yard sale/used crock pot idea! I may just try that this winter !;-) We considering returning the ultrasonic cleaner, even though it did make the Mrs's jewelry really sparkle, we'd probably rarely use it.

Click to expand...

For carb cleaning, the crockpot should be better. Those cheap ultras are hit and miss. Have to put it back in for 1-4 more cleanings. Doesn't seem like they really work. ??? Yup rarely use an ultra wonder cleaner. Also a yard sale crock pot would be waaaaay cheaper.

Crock pot method is just as hit and miss as using an ultrasound unit, so don’t be placing any bets on it.

Cleaning with ultrasonics works fine but the time required varies as does with any cleaning method. It is not a one time quickie for all carburetors. In my current unit which has four transducers (160W cleaning power some take a 30 minute cycles and others may take up to four cycles. Still a lot faster than doing a chemical dip overnight.

Even then there will be some carburetor problems that just can't be cleaned away such as a grain of sand or plastic stuck in one of the jets. By far it is still faster and safer than the old chemical dips.

I start with a 1.5L unit but quickly outgrew it so I stepped up the 6L size and sold the old unit. A year later I outgrew the 6L unit and now have 2 10L units. I found out that I needed a backup as one 10L failed under warranty and it took a few weeks to get it replaced which back me up for some time as it during the busy season.

slomo said:

For carb cleaning, the crockpot should be better. Those cheap ultras are hit and miss. Have to put it back in for 1-4 more cleanings. Doesn't seem like they really work. ??? Yup rarely use an ultra wonder cleaner. Also a yard sale crock would be waaaaay cheaper.

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My much better half says she has FIVE old ones that she's been meaning to sell in garages sales! I think a few are from her mother & aunt.
I'll have to commandeer one !;-)

StarTech said:

Cleaning with ultrasonics works fine but the time required varies as does with any cleaning method. It is not a one time quickie for all carburetors. In my current unit which has four transducers (160W cleaning power some take a 30 minute cycles and others may take up to four cycles. Still a lot faster than doing a chemical dip overnight.

Even then there will be some carburetor problems that just can't be cleaned away such as a grain of sand or plastic stuck in one of the jets. By far it is still faster and safer than the old chemical dips.

I start with a 1.5L unit but quickly outgrew it so I stepped up the 6L size and sold the old unit. A year later I outgrew the 6L unit and now have 2 10L units. I found out that I needed a backup as one 10L failed under warranty and it took a few weeks to get it replaced which back me up for some time as it during the busy season.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info ;-) I've been considering returning our 3.2L for a 6L that's selling for only $21 more.
Or, as mentioned abv, returning for refund since we'd probably rarely use it.

Been using a 2L unit for the last 15 years. On the third one, but it is used just About every day. We’ve tried many cleaning agents, but have settled on Simple Green, mixed about 12/1. Solution gets changed about every three days. Most cleaning times are about 8 minutes, at 175 degrees. I know this seems short for most of you, buts 90% of the time we only need one cleaning. If the carb cannot be cleaned after two trit’s we replace the carb.

Rivets said:

Been using a 2L unit for the last 15 years. On the third one, but it is used just About every day. We’ve tried many cleaning agents, but have settled on Simple Green, mixed about 12/1. Solution gets changed about every three days. Most cleaning times are about 8 minutes, at 175 degrees. I know this seems short for most of you, buts 90% of the time we only need one cleaning. If the carb cannot be cleaned after two trit’s we replace the carb.

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I will try for longer than that as it is only a matter of turning it on & setting the timer on my phone so I can pull it out before the ultrasound stops
Some carbs have takes better than 4 hours in total
Got 2 , worn out the original and have a transponder kit to stick onto a plastic sink so I will have a 25 litre unit with a drain

Rivets said:

Crock pot method is just as hit and miss as using an ultrasound unit, so don’t be placing any bets on it.

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I don't know. My crock pot works pretty good. Just did a caked on oily mess of a carb. Came out with only minor tooth brush scrubbing. She was a surger before. Now she purrs like a kitty. To each his own I guess.

Reported multiple posts.

Rivets said:

Reported multiple posts.

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. . of the spam poster at #38 ?
How do those pestilent robot-spams typically land willy-nilly throughout the www of forums &c?

winmod21 said:

. . of the spam poster at #38 ?
How do those pestilent robot-spams typically land willy-nilly throughout the www of forums &c?

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most of them are real people in third world countries who are paid next to nothing for every successful penetration of a forum .
The blinding poverty of third world countries that support out extravient life styles means that people are forced to do these sorts of jobs