For those interested in Alternative Fuels

[Terry CleanFuel]

I'm sure that transportation difficulties have added to the shortages. Looking at the National inventories, yes, inventories are down but not the worst I've seen.

Hang in there and take a good look next summer!

Hate to quote myself but here's the problem:

Propane prices heat up | On Air Videos | Fox Business

 

[LoCo86]

I should add my water heater is also on that same gas bill so hot water and heat for 100 a month we only have a 950sqft house to heat tho well insulated and vinal Windows

I'm not sure that is that great of a deal. My house at 3000 sqft. cost around $130 a month for hot water and heat.

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

I'm not sure that is that great of a deal. My house at 3000 sqft. cost around $130 a month for hot water and heat.

Much has to do with where you live geographically. SoCal heating costs should be less than Stillwater, MN.

 

[Rivets]

Terry, you better check your facts. Right now the cost of natural gas in Minnesota is cheaper than SoCal. Propane prices higher in Minnesota, and across many parts of the US, due to the shortage and transportation problem. This is not going to change anytime soon with the nice weather we are having everywhere. Just trying to get though to you that what works in one part of this great country, will not work when you try to paint us all with the same brush.

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

Terry, you better check your facts. Right now the cost of natural gas in Minnesota is cheaper than SoCal. Propane prices higher in Minnesota, and across many parts of the US, due to the shortage and transportation problem. This is not going to change anytime soon with the nice weather we are having everywhere. Just trying to get though to you that what works in one part of this great country, will not work when you try to paint us all with the same brush.

Actually I was considering heating degree days. Price per therm varies (somewhat) according to location.

The North HDD was close to 70 while SoCal was, maybe, 15? It makes a difference.

Not at all trying to paint everybody with the same brush. Just using plain old physics.

 

[Rivets]

Yes, that's numbers (physics) can be used in a variety of ways. That why you can't be blamed for false advertising. Use one set of numbers to justify your claims and use another set of numbers in a different way to support your first set. Bottom line goes back to your #1 post, which many here disagree with. Converting lawn and garden equipment to propane is not visible nor profitable for the vast majority of this country. Keeping this thread going is great advertising for your business, as you may convince some to convert, but as for me I feel this is a way around the rules of this forum and you should be either billed for your ad or shut down.

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

Yes, that's numbers (physics) can be used in a variety of ways. That why you can't be blamed for false advertising. Use one set of numbers to justify your claims and use another set of numbers in a different way to support your first set. Bottom line goes back to your #1 post, which many here disagree with. Converting lawn and garden equipment to propane is not visible nor profitable for the vast majority of this country. Keeping this thread going is great advertising for your business, as you may convince some to convert, but as for me I feel this is a way around the rules of this forum and you should be either billed for your ad or shut down.

There are those who are interested in preserving their environment and I applaud any effort to do so - not just propane.

If you take issue with any points I've made please provide info to the contrary. I'm happy to provide the correct information here to those who ask for it. I have been in the industry for a very longtime and am an industry expert when it comes to Alternative Fuels be it LPG, CNG, LNG or Fuel Cell. I sometimes have questions about mowers or gensets which have been answered here and am happy to reciprocate with factual information.

"Heating Degree Days" are used in any heating related industry to forecast energy usage and has nothing to do with mowers whatsoever so I'm a bit confused about your attack here. If I in anyway offended you it wasn't intentional.

 

[Rivets]

You may be an "expert" in fuels, but you sure are not an "expert" in lawn and garden equipment or landscaping services. I am not an "expert" in either, but I do recognize methods to get consumers to buy your product. When we try to explain to you the problems we will have converting our equipment, you don't listen, but just expound on the virtues of LP. When we talk about conversion costs being high, you start talking about payback. When we talk about problems with supply and demand, you talk about low prices. When we talk about those prices, you change it to therms, which to me means a unit to measure heat output, BTU's. This is understood by those in the heating industry, but not in the small engine market. Advertising says, if you can't win them over with brilliance, baffle them with BS, read the small print. Now you are calling me an Eco-unfriendly mechanic, because it disagree with your position as an "expert". Another advertising ploy. If it was as simple and cheap as you say, equipment manufacturers would be producing equipment to sell to us. They have not seen a market for it and recognize the problems the consumer will have. The technology that you want use to change to is nothing new, I worked on generators and floor buffing machines run on propane 20+ years ago. If this was the next coming of the industry, it should have been here by now. I will agree that this technology has it's place in society, but not for the vast majority of consumers in lawn care. I may be just retired teacher who just like equipment engineers has never worked on their designs in the field, but I do understand how advertisers use many different ploys to show that their product is the next best thing on the market. Next you'll tell me that it only costs $$$$$ and if you buy today, you'll include a second one free, with a 30 day money back warranty, just pay separate shipping & handling. Bottom line, buyer beware, in this case knowledge is your friend.

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

You may be an "expert" in fuels, but you sure are not an "expert" in lawn and garden equipment or landscaping services. I am not an "expert" in either, but I do recognize methods to get consumers to buy your product. When we try to explain to you the problems we will have converting our equipment, you don't listen, but just expound on the virtues of LP. When we talk about conversion costs being high, you start talking about payback. When we talk about problems with supply and demand, you talk about low prices. When we talk about those prices, you change it to therms, which to me means a unit to measure heat output, BTU's. This is understood by those in the heating industry, but not in the small engine market. Advertising says, if you can't win them over with brilliance, baffle them with BS, read the small print. Now you are calling me an Eco-unfriendly mechanic, because it disagree with your position as an "expert". Another advertising ploy. If it was as simple and cheap as you say, equipment manufacturers would be producing equipment to sell to us. They have not seen a market for it and recognize the problems the consumer will have. The technology that you want use to change to is nothing new, I worked on generators and floor buffing machines run on propane 20+ years ago. If this was the next coming of the industry, it should have been here by now. I will agree that this technology has it's place in society, but not for the vast majority of consumers in lawn care. I may be just retired teacher who just like equipment engineers has never worked on their designs in the field, but I do understand how advertisers use many different ploys to show that their product is the next best thing on the market. Next you'll tell me that it only costs $$$$$ and if you buy today, you'll include a second one free, with a 30 day money back warranty, just pay separate shipping & handling. Bottom line, buyer beware, in this case knowledge is your friend.

Um, actually, most of the manufacturers DO indeed offer propane powered equipment. It's hard to find one that doesn't.

With your impressive background in small engines I find it hard to believe you are so close-minded when it comes to alternative fuels. My work with Kawasaki, Honda and many others suggest that, if anything, ethanol is the worst thing to happen to them.

The EPA says that small engines contribute 7-10% to the total air pollution in the United States. Propane contributes up to 80% fewer pollutants and is NOT a greenhouse gas. Propane extends engine life up to three times and extends oil-change intervals the same. Last summer the average savings propane vs. gasoline was 57%.

I started in 1979 and, to date, have done over 3000 conversions complete with follow-up and instruction. I've dyno'd most of Schwann's trucks at one time or another and can attest to the horsepower gained. If you care to google commercial propane mowers you'll find many success stories.

Current legislation is headed toward banning commercial mowing with gasoline-powered mowers on "Ozone Action Days". There are numerous benefits both ecologically and financially. Not to mention morally and Patriotically.

If you would like to debate me on propane's benefits, well, have at it. Roll the dice. You'd better have facts though, not some tired rhetoric without substance.

So far you have done nothing to refute my statements but have chosen to attack me personally. If you don't agree, tell me WHY and back it up with facts.

Am I being unreasonable?

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

By the way, residential natural gas use is measured in "therms". I thought since you were commenting on that that you knew what it was.

My bad.