Ferris 23 Hp B&S Engine Vibration

TobyU

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Threads
0
Messages
563
B & S Australia are pathetic and only interested in wholesaling to Bunnings & Mitre 10
I no longer fit B &S engines unless specifically asked to do so
B & S Australia will tell you things are NLA when they are readily available either from the USA directly or from John Deere Australia because they are just too lazy to import them .
Genuine Gator blades being the prime example .
John Deere will supply B & S engines cheaper than B & S will and also they are cheaper for parts but of course you need to know the JD part number .
Better still is the JD engines have much better air filter covers that do not rust the fasteners like std B & S covers do .
Now you have to pull the engine out in any case so pull it out and slip the sump off and see what sort of damage there is inside .
You have nothing to loose but a couple of hours .
3 usual reasons for dropping a rod, in order , over heating , low oil , over reving
Small Engine Warehouse in Australia is affiliated wth Small Engine Warehouse USA who sell superceded engines cheaply
I buy a lot of Kohlers form them as my Australian aftermarket wholesalers only sell Kawasaki or Loncin .
Do not worry about the size of the engine, it makes almost no difference as they all spin at the same speed and the extra power means next to nothing unless you are mowing pasture .
I have fitted a lot of engines that are as much as 5 Hp lower than the original and all the customers ever say is the mower is quieter and uses less fuel.
And this includes 3 commercial customers who mow up to 6 hours a day.
It is TORQUE that does the work and Torque is a function of piston area , stoke & compression.
All B & S engines with the same capacity prefix 44 for instance have the same bore stroke & compression the only difference apart from the stickers is a restrictor gasket between the manifold & the head to reduce the maximum air flow on the lower power engines & some times the governor spring .
Unless you are north of the Qld border the grass should be slowing down by now
Here there is nothing growing here other than Tussock grass, clovers , fire weed & sticky night shade right now
Yes, the old horsepower wars and all the lies..
People worry about getting a 19 or 20.5 horsepower single engine for their repower when we have been using the exact same mowers with a 12 to 15 power for decades to cut the same lawns..

It's very odd that in Australia you have that type of problem. I understand the availability but in the us, any Briggs & Stratton part is always cheaper from them or anyone else then it is to buy it from John Deere.
John Deere takes the exact same part and puts in one of their yellow and green bags and marks with the price 30 or 40%.

As far as snapping the rods, I was slightly disagree on your order that overheating is the first cause and lack of all being the second.
In reality, the two kind of go together or which came first, the Chicken and the egg but the ones I see, lack of oil / lack of lubrication, the oil level being too low is what snaps the rod and they will do it in a heartbeat.
I tell all my customers to never let the oil get below the full mark and even slightly above the full mark is my preference.
Anything below that bottom dot where it says add is really risky.

I've seen a number of them and Kohlers too overheat from grass filled up or nesting over the cooling fins and cause other problems, most commonly slipped valve guides and sometimes popped valve seats and occasionally piston rings losing their tension etc and that cylinder getting low compression because of rings but they very rarely snap a rod as long as they have enough oil enough.

I really don't like the Briggs twins though and if you can get by with a mower like a 42 that has their single engine you'll likely have fewer problems in the future than if you get a Briggs twin.

They all have their issues but parts are just so much more available and cheap for the singles I just rather have one of those if I have to have a Briggs
 

Skippydiesel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
173
Interesting - This mower is second hand, is aesthetically in good order and since my customer has had it been serviced, minimal/nil chaff in the cylinder fins, does not use oil and was running just fine until dropping the con rod.
 

bertsmobile1

Lawn Royalty
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Threads
65
Messages
24,995
Interesting - This mower is second hand, is aesthetically in good order and since my customer has had it been serviced, minimal/nil chaff in the cylinder fins, does not use oil and was running just fine until dropping the con rod.
Pull the engine apart and have a look at the sump
The sump gasket is the oil level ( well a tiny bit lower actually )
Now look at the position of the oil pump & pick up pipe / strainer .
Imagine just how little of a tilt it would take to have the strainer out of the oil so the pump was pumping air .
You have about 2 minutes like that before some thing will go bang or the top bush will seize
The lubrication of the little end & bore is essentially by splash so if the mower is high on the left the cylinder gets too much oil splash and if it is low then it gets too little .
I killed 2 engines before I twigged to this as I have a 540 yard street frontage with a compound slope
 

Skippydiesel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
173
Delivery of new engine iminent!
I understand the new engine crankcase mounting holes will not be threaded.
There is some suggestion that the mounting bolts will cut their own thread.
Is using the existing bolts the best way to cut threads into the mounting holes???
Never done this before - Best technique By hand?? or Use a "rattle gun"??
OR
Should I tap/thread the holes to match the mounting bolts??
OR
Fit new HT bolts & lock nuts??? ie not bother with threading the crankcase holes.
 

ILENGINE

Lawn Royalty
Joined
May 6, 2010
Threads
44
Messages
10,774
Delivery of new engine iminent!
I understand the new engine crankcase mounting holes will not be threaded.
There is some suggestion that the mounting bolts will cut their own thread.
Is using the existing bolts the best way to cut threads into the mounting holes???
Never done this before - Best technique By hand?? or Use a "rattle gun"??
OR
Should I tap/thread the holes to match the mounting bolts??
OR
Fit new HT bolts & lock nuts??? ie not bother with threading the crankcase holes.
All are good considerations except the rattle gun.
 

ILENGINE

Lawn Royalty
Joined
May 6, 2010
Threads
44
Messages
10,774
Have you done a new engine install?
Briggs, Kohler, Honda, Tecumseh, MTD Branded engines. So I have done a few. The issue with the rattle gun especially with the self tapping bolts is they don't really cut threads as much as Pressure form them into the aluminum. So it is better to take them slow and turn each a little at a time to allow for some pressure relief. Rattle gun can force the bolts in ,which is some cases will cause them to break off. And self threading bolts don't come out without a fight.
 

Skippydiesel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
173
Briggs, Kohler, Honda, Tecumseh, MTD Branded engines. So I have done a few. The issue with the rattle gun especially with the self tapping bolts is they don't really cut threads as much as Pressure form them into the aluminum. So it is better to take them slow and turn each a little at a time to allow for some pressure relief. Rattle gun can force the bolts in ,which is some cases will cause them to break off. And self threading bolts don't come out without a fight.
Interesting!
I have done way less than you.
The few I have done B&S, Kawasaki were my own machines and done with suitable HT nuts/ bolts & washers.
This machine belongs to my neighbour/customer, so sort of thinking to go with the OM way of attaching the engine ie threaded holes. What do you think?
My preference would be what I have done before - just seems to be more professional somehow.
 

ILENGINE

Lawn Royalty
Joined
May 6, 2010
Threads
44
Messages
10,774
For speed the self threading bolts are the fastest and tend to somewhat self lock into place. Also certain engines have hidden mounting holes so can't use bolt and nut setups. Tapped threaded holes can be just as good, but somethings need to be backed up with a nut to lock the bolt in place. Also installing nuts can be a pain in cases of limited visibilty and access to mounting holes to install washers and nuts.
 

Skippydiesel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
173
All good comments.
Will assess accessibility, when new engine arrives.
My thanks
 
Top