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Did I break this mower?
#1
R
Remydon
R
Remydon
Situation: I work for a guy who runs a small landscaping company, and we also have a mowing circuit. We were going through about 5 yards, with him hitting the flat areas on his zero-point and me doing the slopes and trim work with a Honda self-propelled mower. I don't know the exact model number, but he claims he paid ~$1000 for it, so must be higher end.
We had mowed 4 yards earlier in the day, it was about 90-95 degrees out. On the fifth, with grass at about 8 inches tall. I had the self-propel lever fully depressed, letting it pull me at the pace it wanted to go (a brisk walk). After 15 strips on the last yard, the mower suddenly died (no slow down). I tried to restart it, but the rope didn't want to go, so I checked for clogs. No grass, but I did find a bit of mud and a lot of dried clay on the axle. I chipped away what I could until the blade moved easily, then tried to restart. It went a few feet, died, and gave off white smoke. Checked gas, saw it was pretty low, and I sent the owner's teenage daughter who was out helping to get a can and fill it up. Tried again after, still no joy, more white smoke. Called the owner over, and at that point he accused me of blowing it up by pushing it too hard. There was oil on the deck with gas mixed in, so it looks like a blown gasket. He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this? My husband is an engineer, he thinks this is crap (the mower was only a month old), and the guy either didn't have enough oil in it, or it was a lemon. Or possibly it overheated, since it was a hot day and it's air cooled. I just wanted to get some input from experienced operators before I cover the repair costs for his equipment like he wants me to. He claims the failure was due to operator abuse, which the warrant won't cover. Again, appreciate any input!
We had mowed 4 yards earlier in the day, it was about 90-95 degrees out. On the fifth, with grass at about 8 inches tall. I had the self-propel lever fully depressed, letting it pull me at the pace it wanted to go (a brisk walk). After 15 strips on the last yard, the mower suddenly died (no slow down). I tried to restart it, but the rope didn't want to go, so I checked for clogs. No grass, but I did find a bit of mud and a lot of dried clay on the axle. I chipped away what I could until the blade moved easily, then tried to restart. It went a few feet, died, and gave off white smoke. Checked gas, saw it was pretty low, and I sent the owner's teenage daughter who was out helping to get a can and fill it up. Tried again after, still no joy, more white smoke. Called the owner over, and at that point he accused me of blowing it up by pushing it too hard. There was oil on the deck with gas mixed in, so it looks like a blown gasket. He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this? My husband is an engineer, he thinks this is crap (the mower was only a month old), and the guy either didn't have enough oil in it, or it was a lemon. Or possibly it overheated, since it was a hot day and it's air cooled. I just wanted to get some input from experienced operators before I cover the repair costs for his equipment like he wants me to. He claims the failure was due to operator abuse, which the warrant won't cover. Again, appreciate any input!
#2
reynoldston
reynoldston
Is this a job you need to live on? If not I would tell him to take his job and mower and hire someone else, only it might be in a different type of language from me which I can't say here. If this is a job you depend on you might just have to do what ever you need to do keep it. The only thing I can see is that you might be responsible for is gas and oil.
#3
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I have never see a mower that was abused by mowing to fast. A mowers self-propell system is designed to operate with the engine speed. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about. The only possible abuse I could see in your description is the possibility of unit being low on oil. He is making a claim that it is not covered under warranty, without taking it in, is his way of blaming someone else. As reynoldston said, if you don't need this job, wave goodby. Even if you need this job, in my opinion, it is going to cost you more than it is worth. You will always be blamed for what ever happens. RUN.
#4
R
Remydon
R
Remydon
Thanks for the input guys!
I definitely do not need the job to live on, I was just doing it to get some extra spending money for the summer; it payed better than any other seasonal jobs, and I enjoy being out doors and getting the exercise. Definitely not going to work for him anymore, but I didn't want to leave him high and dry if it really was my fault. Up until now he's been a very fair employer, I don't know what is going with him now, but either way I'm done.
I definitely do not need the job to live on, I was just doing it to get some extra spending money for the summer; it payed better than any other seasonal jobs, and I enjoy being out doors and getting the exercise. Definitely not going to work for him anymore, but I didn't want to leave him high and dry if it really was my fault. Up until now he's been a very fair employer, I don't know what is going with him now, but either way I'm done.
#5
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If you are good at it, most landscapers in my area are always looking for reliable help. Should be able to find another (better) employer.
#6
reynoldston
reynoldston
I am not in the mowing business but into the repair business. If I was in the mowing business one of my rules would be for my employs is the oil would be checked at every gas up or at the very less would be at the first gas up. If the mower was low on oil who's job was it to check the oil yours or his? If it was your job to check the oil and the oil was low I can see pointing the finger at you. The first thing I do before I start any mower mine or a customers I check the oil level. Mowing too fast is not your fault and I have never heard of such a thing.
#7
Carscw
So the grass was 8 inches tall and you was walking fast. I was not there so I can just assume that the engine was working hard.
I do know with a $900 snapper mower cutting 8 inch tall grass I need to go slower than a brisk walk or it just will bog down and not give a good cut.
With that said do I thing it's your fault? NO
Should you have worked it so hard? No
He is the boss it is his $400 mower he should have said something. Like hey make half passes so you don't over heat the engine.
Did you check the oil?
Now if he yelled or raised his voice to you or showed any disrespect then you need to tell him to piss off.
I am sure your husband would like to talk to him if he disrespected you.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
Carscw
Situation: I work for a guy who runs a small landscaping company, and we also have a mowing circuit. We were going through about 5 yards, with him hitting the flat areas on his zero-point and me doing the slopes and trim work with a Honda self-propelled mower. I don't know the exact model number, but he claims he paid ~$1000 for it, so must be higher end.
We had mowed 4 yards earlier in the day, it was about 90-95 degrees out. On the fifth, with grass at about 8 inches tall. I had the self-propel lever fully depressed, letting it pull me at the pace it wanted to go (a brisk walk). After 15 strips on the last yard, the mower suddenly died (no slow down). I tried to restart it, but the rope didn't want to go, so I checked for clogs. No grass, but I did find a bit of mud and a lot of dried clay on the axle. I chipped away what I could until the blade moved easily, then tried to restart. It went a few feet, died, and gave off white smoke. Checked gas, saw it was pretty low, and I sent the owner's teenage daughter who was out helping to get a can and fill it up. Tried again after, still no joy, more white smoke. Called the owner over, and at that point he accused me of blowing it up by pushing it too hard. There was oil on the deck with gas mixed in, so it looks like a blown gasket. He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this? My husband is an engineer, he thinks this is crap (the mower was only a month old), and the guy either didn't have enough oil in it, or it was a lemon. Or possibly it overheated, since it was a hot day and it's air cooled. I just wanted to get some input from experienced operators before I cover the repair costs for his equipment like he wants me to. He claims the failure was due to operator abuse, which the warrant won't cover. Again, appreciate any input!
So the grass was 8 inches tall and you was walking fast. I was not there so I can just assume that the engine was working hard.
I do know with a $900 snapper mower cutting 8 inch tall grass I need to go slower than a brisk walk or it just will bog down and not give a good cut.
With that said do I thing it's your fault? NO
Should you have worked it so hard? No
He is the boss it is his $400 mower he should have said something. Like hey make half passes so you don't over heat the engine.
Did you check the oil?
Now if he yelled or raised his voice to you or showed any disrespect then you need to tell him to piss off.
I am sure your husband would like to talk to him if he disrespected you.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#8
exotion
I always check in the mornings buts really it I would kinda hope that I would see or feel signs of something wrong before it actually blew up
exotion
I am not in the mowing business but into the repair business. If I was in the mowing business one of my rules would be for my employs is the oil would be checked at every gas up or at the very less would be at the first gas up. If the mower was low on oil who's job was it to check the oil yours or his? If it was your job to check the oil and the oil was low I can see pointing the finger at you. The first thing I do before I start any mower mine or a customers I check the oil level. Mowing too fast is not your fault and I have never heard of such a thing.
I always check in the mornings buts really it I would kinda hope that I would see or feel signs of something wrong before it actually blew up
#9
exotion
Lol no shi t
I didn't even catch the eight inches part I don't know a single mower that can cut 8 inches at full walking speed that part could definately went better.
exotion
So the grass was 8 inches tall and you was walking fast. I was not there so I can just assume that the engine was working hard.
I do know with a $900 snapper mower cutting 8 inch tall grass I need to go slower than a brisk walk or it just will bog down and not give a good cut.
With that said do I thing it's your fault? NO
Should you have worked it so hard? No
He is the boss it is his $400 mower he should have said something. Like hey make half passes so you don't over heat the engine.
Did you check the oil?
Now if he yelled or raised his voice to you or showed any disrespect then you need to tell him to piss off.
I am sure your husband would like to talk to him if he disrespected you.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
Lol no shi t
I didn't even catch the eight inches part I don't know a single mower that can cut 8 inches at full walking speed that part could definately went better.
#10
R
Remydon
R
Remydon
I'm not 100% sure on 8 inches, it was 2 weeks worth of growth in Northern Virginia with a bunch of rain, for whatever it's worth.
It was never asked of me to check or add oil to any equipment.
My husband did go talk to him. He was told to leave when he pointed out that either a.) he watched me "abuse" the equipment and did nothing to stop it or b.) he didn't see me and has no idea at what speed I was mowing. Eventually he got him to calm down and agree to take it in and see what the shop says. Still haven't heard back.
It was never asked of me to check or add oil to any equipment.
My husband did go talk to him. He was told to leave when he pointed out that either a.) he watched me "abuse" the equipment and did nothing to stop it or b.) he didn't see me and has no idea at what speed I was mowing. Eventually he got him to calm down and agree to take it in and see what the shop says. Still haven't heard back.
#11
R
Remydon
R
Remydon
So, can a self propelled mower really pull itself along at a faster rate than it can handle? I would think if the blade was getting bogged down, there wouldn't be much engine power left for the self-propelling part of the mower to pull that fast. It never slowed down on me, just died.
#12
exotion
exotion
I push my toro faster than it can drive.... I broke a few things on the axle.
So yes you can but you really shouldn't they are designed to handle a certain speed anything more will shorten the life of the drive stuff. Not really affecting the engine tho you can make the engine spin faster by pushing the mower
So yes you can but you really shouldn't they are designed to handle a certain speed anything more will shorten the life of the drive stuff. Not really affecting the engine tho you can make the engine spin faster by pushing the mower
#13
R
Remydon
This I can understand. But this was a month old mower that had seen maybe 8 (large) yards a week. Owner claims he paid $1000 for it, so I would expect it to be able to handle a bit more than that...
R
Remydon
I push my toro faster than it can drive.... I broke a few things on the axle.
So yes you can but you really shouldn't they are designed to handle a certain speed anything more will shorten the life of the drive stuff. Not really affecting the engine tho you can make the engine spin faster by pushing the mower
This I can understand. But this was a month old mower that had seen maybe 8 (large) yards a week. Owner claims he paid $1000 for it, so I would expect it to be able to handle a bit more than that...
#14
lawn mower fanatic
It is probably an HRC, but might be an HRX. Either way it should last longer than that!
HRC:
HRX:
lawn mower fanatic
This I can understand. But this was a month old mower that had seen maybe 8 (large) yards a week. Owner claims he paid $1000 for it, so I would expect it to be able to handle a bit more than that...
It is probably an HRC, but might be an HRX. Either way it should last longer than that!
HRC:
HRX:
#15
G
gabowman
G
gabowman
No landscaper here....but I'm assuming youre "cheap labor" hired to help get thru the "busy" season. Am I right or am I missing something?!? That being the case, the owner is responsible for the equipment. He shoulda checked the oil and he shoulda made sure you understood how HE wanted his equipment ran. I'd move on....he doesnt get it......is all I can say.
#16
P
possum
P
possum
Sounds like the oil is full of gas to me. Or at the least it ran oil into the cylinder when you tipped it to chip at the mud. If this is the whole story and nothing but the whole story I would not worry until the shop looked it over and made their observations known. Your boss is a typical boss. I have never had one that was not unreasonable at times and always trying to gain a buck or one hundred bucks any time and any way he could from any employee. In fact, most of the guys I have worked for over the years simply could not get along with anyone long enough to hold a job so they had to become a boss in order to make a living.
#17
R
Remydon
Barely tipped it, just enough to take a look. But yeah, I don't see him ever being the type to take orders without arguing, so your observation is likely accurate.
R
Remydon
Sounds like the oil is full of gas to me. Or at the least it ran oil into the cylinder when you tipped it to chip at the mud. If this is the whole story and nothing but the whole story I would not worry until the shop looked it over and made their observations known. Your boss is a typical boss. I have never had one that was not unreasonable at times and always trying to gain a buck or one hundred bucks any time and any way he could from any employee. In fact, most of the guys I have worked for over the years simply could not get along with anyone long enough to hold a job so they had to become a boss in order to make a living.
Barely tipped it, just enough to take a look. But yeah, I don't see him ever being the type to take orders without arguing, so your observation is likely accurate.
#18
lawn mower fanatic
You could have tipped it the whole way and nothing would happen, as long as the air filter is up. I do it all the time to clean the underside of the deck. Yes, it maybe takes 3-4 pulls to start after you do that, but nothing happens.
lawn mower fanatic
Barely tipped it, just enough to take a look...
You could have tipped it the whole way and nothing would happen, as long as the air filter is up. I do it all the time to clean the underside of the deck. Yes, it maybe takes 3-4 pulls to start after you do that, but nothing happens.
#19
D
DaveTN
All I've ever seen on any mower that is crowded in high grass is that it'll either bog down or die not to mention being hard on gas. They'll get hot but I never saw one blow a head gasket over it. As far as cutting 8" with a full stride walk, the only machine I've got that will mow 12" or 14" high grass and weeds at that pace or even faster is my Massey Ferguson Diesel 165 Tractor with 5 foot bush hog spinning at full RPM!
D
DaveTN
Lol no shi t
All I've ever seen on any mower that is crowded in high grass is that it'll either bog down or die not to mention being hard on gas. They'll get hot but I never saw one blow a head gasket over it. As far as cutting 8" with a full stride walk, the only machine I've got that will mow 12" or 14" high grass and weeds at that pace or even faster is my Massey Ferguson Diesel 165 Tractor with 5 foot bush hog spinning at full RPM!
#20
reynoldston
reynoldston
8 in. high grass at a fast walk. Now that I am thinking about it that would take more power then any push mower would have that I have ever seen, Honda or not. I don't think my Ferris with a 22HP could do it without bogging down to a stop. That would be like mowing a hay field. If that is how high the grass is it would have to be mowed in stages from as high as the mower would mow, then lower. Also it would have the be cleaned up between mowing's or it would be one big mess.
#21
Fish
Fish
This twit needs to get a life, and you need to find a new job. With this wet year, there should be dozens of crews needing help.
This guy needs to just become a distant memory to you....
This guy needs to just become a distant memory to you....
#22
robert@honda
No. Not possible. At least not if the mower was properly serviced and did not have any failed or modified parts, etc.
An example would be if somebody had dinked with the carburetor and had the engine speed set WAY faster than factory spec..
robert@honda
He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this?
No. Not possible. At least not if the mower was properly serviced and did not have any failed or modified parts, etc.
An example would be if somebody had dinked with the carburetor and had the engine speed set WAY faster than factory spec..
#23
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
I thought they had a 90 day commerical and 5 yr residential warranty ! Either way the grass wasn't 8 inches unless the lawn owner owns stock in SCOTTS. 5-6 maybe.
Either way mower would just bog down and shut off....should fire right back up. Sounds like a lemon or bad fuel mix.
Also tell your boss to find a new worker , use spicier language if you prefer. :laughing: Start your own lawn service go out and undercut him.
Either way mower would just bog down and shut off....should fire right back up. Sounds like a lemon or bad fuel mix.
Also tell your boss to find a new worker , use spicier language if you prefer. :laughing: Start your own lawn service go out and undercut him.
#24
Carscw
Most my yards are over 8 inches every 14 days
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
Carscw
I thought they had a 90 day commerical and 5 yr residential warranty ! Either way the grass wasn't 8 inches unless the lawn owner owns stock in SCOTTS. 5-6 maybe.
Either way mower would just bog down and shut off....should fire right back up. Sounds like a lemon or bad fuel mix.
Also tell your boss to find a new worker , use spicier language if you prefer. :laughing: Start your own lawn service go out and undercut him.
Most my yards are over 8 inches every 14 days
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#25
CauZey
CauZey
No way this thing ran hot. I live in sc and some days cut 6-10 yards with my mowers non stop push mows and my ztr and both are air cooled with it being 100 degrees here rite anout now I have no issues.
#26
robert@honda
robert@honda
At $1,000, sure sounds like it is a Honda HRC model, which is a commercial-grade product with a 24-month engine warranty.
It is important to understand a warranty usually covers repairs only when there is a factory defect or failure due to workmanship. Just because "it broke under warranty" does not mean it will get fixed for free. If the customer allowed the mower to be run low on oil and the engine seized, that is NOT a factory defect, so no warranty would apply. But, if an assembly-line worker forgot to install a connecting rod bolt and the engine failed, then of course, it is a clear factory defect and warranty would certainty cover repairs. The language in most warranty documents leaves the dealer to make the initial decision if it is a defect or not, and if escalated, a final decision is typically made by a district service manager or technical specialist from the manufacturer who has examined details of the specific problem and failed parts.
FYI, here are the current Honda mower warranty terms, effective for all mowers purchased after January 1, 2010:
Residential Use:
* HRR, HRS Models, 36 Months
* HRX Models, 60 Months
* HRC Models, 24 Months
Commercial (for-hire) Rental, Institutional Use:
* HRR, HRS Models, 3 Months
* HRX Models, 3 Months
* HRC Models, 24 Months (engine) 12 Months (all other parts)
Additionally, the HRX has a Limited Lifetime Warranty on its NeXite/composite mower deck, valid for original, residential-use owners.
Link to full warranty document: Distributor's Limited Warranty (.PDF document)
It is important to understand a warranty usually covers repairs only when there is a factory defect or failure due to workmanship. Just because "it broke under warranty" does not mean it will get fixed for free. If the customer allowed the mower to be run low on oil and the engine seized, that is NOT a factory defect, so no warranty would apply. But, if an assembly-line worker forgot to install a connecting rod bolt and the engine failed, then of course, it is a clear factory defect and warranty would certainty cover repairs. The language in most warranty documents leaves the dealer to make the initial decision if it is a defect or not, and if escalated, a final decision is typically made by a district service manager or technical specialist from the manufacturer who has examined details of the specific problem and failed parts.
FYI, here are the current Honda mower warranty terms, effective for all mowers purchased after January 1, 2010:
Residential Use:
* HRR, HRS Models, 36 Months
* HRX Models, 60 Months
* HRC Models, 24 Months
Commercial (for-hire) Rental, Institutional Use:
* HRR, HRS Models, 3 Months
* HRX Models, 3 Months
* HRC Models, 24 Months (engine) 12 Months (all other parts)
Additionally, the HRX has a Limited Lifetime Warranty on its NeXite/composite mower deck, valid for original, residential-use owners.
Link to full warranty document: Distributor's Limited Warranty (.PDF document)
#27
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
I guess the right grass and conditions could produce eight inch grass this time of year. Summer months lawns grow really slow. I mow every ten days now and its maybe 4 inches....and I do use fertilizer just did it in fact. Shady area's do grow faster.
Be interesting to find out why it died.... my tiller engine has low level oil shutoff. Don't these new mowers have that?
Be interesting to find out why it died.... my tiller engine has low level oil shutoff. Don't these new mowers have that?
#28
Carscw
Carscw
My new mower has a oil switch that will not let it start with low oil but will not shut it off.
Here in GA in past two months it did NOT rain 9 days today is the first day since may that I have cut dry grass. Last year we was looking at maybe 3 inches every 14 days. This year the grass is growing crazy fast
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
Here in GA in past two months it did NOT rain 9 days today is the first day since may that I have cut dry grass. Last year we was looking at maybe 3 inches every 14 days. This year the grass is growing crazy fast
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#29
Fish
How is that? How does it work?
Fish
My new mower has a oil switch that will not let it start with low oil but will not shut it off.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
How is that? How does it work?
#30
A
afoulk
A
afoulk
I didn't have a working mower for about a month until I got my newer snapper running last week and I had grass that had to be at least 8in. Tall in spots. The ol girl cut through it like a champ, didn't even bog down (7HP Briggs intek)
#31
Carscw
Man I don't know how it works.
It's in the manual. Yes I did read the whole thing.
My thinking was if it won't let it start why won't it shut it down?
I'll have my wife find it and post a pic of what It says
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
Carscw
How is that? How does it work?
Man I don't know how it works.
It's in the manual. Yes I did read the whole thing.
My thinking was if it won't let it start why won't it shut it down?
I'll have my wife find it and post a pic of what It says
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#32
Carscw
Carscw
Ok looks like I did not read it correctly.
It's said MAY not WILL
that would be my dyslexia kicking in.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
It's said MAY not WILL
that would be my dyslexia kicking in.
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#33
Fish
Fish
Well, if it is a float shutoff, I guess it could be fooled by splashing oil, but the mechanism should be pretty much straightforward...
#34
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
I'm thinking a one month old mower doesn't use much oil , so if it were low , either the shutoff didn't work or it had oil. I know mine won't start , period. I learned it the hard way was baffled until reading the manual. All else fails read the manual.
So whats the outcome of this event. Low oil , no oil , lemon , or owner /operator failure. I also was thinking high grass bogged it to shut off , then low oil kept it from restarting. The smoke part -ain't- good. -confused
So whats the outcome of this event. Low oil , no oil , lemon , or owner /operator failure. I also was thinking high grass bogged it to shut off , then low oil kept it from restarting. The smoke part -ain't- good. -confused
#35
robert@honda
On some Honda engines, there is a device called Oil Alert. It is a simple float switch in the oil pan. If the oil level drops too low, the switch ground the ignition and the engine shuts down. If the oil level is too low before the the operator tries to start the engine, it engine won't start. On some products, there is a small circuit that drives an "Oil Alert" lamp, which flashes when you try and start the engine to indicate the oil level is too low. Oil Alert is featured on all Honda generators, pumps, and many other power equipment products that usually remain stationary during operation.
All that said, no Honda walk-behinds mowers have an Oil Alert device (!). This is because most mowers are operated at various inclines, degrees of elevation, rough soil conditions, etc., and it would be very difficult to make a float inside the oil pan operate reliably.
robert@honda
How is that? How does it work?
On some Honda engines, there is a device called Oil Alert. It is a simple float switch in the oil pan. If the oil level drops too low, the switch ground the ignition and the engine shuts down. If the oil level is too low before the the operator tries to start the engine, it engine won't start. On some products, there is a small circuit that drives an "Oil Alert" lamp, which flashes when you try and start the engine to indicate the oil level is too low. Oil Alert is featured on all Honda generators, pumps, and many other power equipment products that usually remain stationary during operation.
All that said, no Honda walk-behinds mowers have an Oil Alert device (!). This is because most mowers are operated at various inclines, degrees of elevation, rough soil conditions, etc., and it would be very difficult to make a float inside the oil pan operate reliably.
#36
Carscw
Carscw
This is what happened she clogged the deck up mower shut off. She flipped it on its side carb down then then when she got it to start after 30 pulls it was out if oil
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
(( cowboy up and get over it ))
#37
reynoldston
What I have seen is it wouldn't start or run because it grounds out the coil when the oil gets low.
reynoldston
How is that? How does it work?
What I have seen is it wouldn't start or run because it grounds out the coil when the oil gets low.
#38
Fish
He said, "My new mower has a oil switch that will not let it start with low oil but will not shut it off."
Hence my question.....
I have a pretty good grip on the low oil gizmos otherwise, just was not familiar with this one..........
Fish
What I have seen is it wouldn't start or run because it grounds out the coil when the oil gets low.
He said, "My new mower has a oil switch that will not let it start with low oil but will not shut it off."
Hence my question.....
I have a pretty good grip on the low oil gizmos otherwise, just was not familiar with this one..........
#39
C
cashman
C
cashman
If the mower was going too fast for the condition of the grass, it would have bogged down and died. Especially with a new employee, he should have taken the time to show you how he wanted the oil checked and any other preferred operation of the mower before your using it. If the mower didn't have enough oil level in it when you started using it, it was probably already low? Did he ever show you anything about maintenance or operation of the mower before using it?
#40
robert@honda
robert@honda
For the record, Honda Mowers DO NOT have an LOW OIL SHUTDOWN feature.
You can run the engine WITHOUT OIL. It will (eventually ) FAIL if you do so.
Generally speaking, only Honda engines that operate in a stationary (they don't move around, they don't self propel) position SOMETIMES have a oil shutdown. Examples would be a generator, water pump, engine mounted on a pressure washer, log splitters, etc.
You can run the engine WITHOUT OIL. It will (eventually ) FAIL if you do so.
Generally speaking, only Honda engines that operate in a stationary (they don't move around, they don't self propel) position SOMETIMES have a oil shutdown. Examples would be a generator, water pump, engine mounted on a pressure washer, log splitters, etc.
#41
B
benski
B
benski
It'll be interesting to see what the post mortem on that engine reveals. Checking the oil before every day's mowing is a great way to prolong the life of any equipment, obviously. I'm also a big fan of premium synthetic oil, but that's been covered elsewhere..:smile:
To the Honda man; We would routinely over fill the Honda gensets we used on our research vessels so that the low oil cut-off didn't interrupt our surveys. With the boat pitching and rolling, there wasn't a good option.:smile:
To the Honda man; We would routinely over fill the Honda gensets we used on our research vessels so that the low oil cut-off didn't interrupt our surveys. With the boat pitching and rolling, there wasn't a good option.:smile:
#42
P
phcaan
I would think that no one should be blamed before the mower gets checked out by a reputable shop. I can't think of anything other than running out of oil that would not be covered by warranty unless the owner purchased the mower used, and in that case it may have been an existing problem.
P
phcaan
I'm not 100% sure on 8 inches, it was 2 weeks worth of growth in Northern Virginia with a bunch of rain, for whatever it's worth.
It was never asked of me to check or add oil to any equipment.
My husband did go talk to him. He was told to leave when he pointed out that either a.) he watched me "abuse" the equipment and did nothing to stop it or b.) he didn't see me and has no idea at what speed I was mowing. Eventually he got him to calm down and agree to take it in and see what the shop says. Still haven't heard back.
I would think that no one should be blamed before the mower gets checked out by a reputable shop. I can't think of anything other than running out of oil that would not be covered by warranty unless the owner purchased the mower used, and in that case it may have been an existing problem.
#43
F
Fastshivy
I agree with the above synopsis. The business is usually responsible for their equipment. By this I mean, there is always a risk of equipment being broken by employees, it goes with the territory. An owner assumes that risk unless malice or total negligence is involved. If you were just buzzing along cutting grass, like others have stated it would simply stall. I definitely would not pay....stuff happens. Any up dates from servicing dealer?
F
Fastshivy
Sounds like the oil is full of gas to me. Or at the least it ran oil into the cylinder when you tipped it to chip at the mud. If this is the whole story and nothing but the whole story I would not worry until the shop looked it over and made their observations known. Your boss is a typical boss. I have never had one that was not unreasonable at times and always trying to gain a buck or one hundred bucks any time and any way he could from any employee. In fact, most of the guys I have worked for over the years simply could not get along with anyone long enough to hold a job so they had to become a boss in order to make a living.
I agree with the above synopsis. The business is usually responsible for their equipment. By this I mean, there is always a risk of equipment being broken by employees, it goes with the territory. An owner assumes that risk unless malice or total negligence is involved. If you were just buzzing along cutting grass, like others have stated it would simply stall. I definitely would not pay....stuff happens. Any up dates from servicing dealer?
#44
M
meamjw
M
meamjw
If you had been mowing faster than the engine could handle it would have been bogging down and likely even dying many times before blowing up. It's my guess the A-hole just figured you were too dumb to know any different and he would get you to foot the bill. It's never an employee's responsibility to cover the cost of repairs unless there is clear evidence of carelessness when the employee knew better. Besides all that, the entire mower does not need to be replaced. Maybe the engine does not even need to be replaced. A good mechanic should have diagnosed it before the jerk got his knickers in a big knot.
#45
U
ump107
I presume this only applies to the Honda branded mowers not all applications of Honda engines. My Ransomes mower with the Honda GVX 390 has the oil alert on it. It is a audible alarm that goes off when the oil is too low I have only ever had it activate when I was changing the oil. I would speculate because there was just enough charge left in the system to power the alarm briefly.
U
ump107
On some Honda engines, there is a device called Oil Alert. It is a simple float switch in the oil pan. If the oil level drops too low, the switch ground the ignition and the engine shuts down. If the oil level is too low before the the operator tries to start the engine, it engine won't start. On some products, there is a small circuit that drives an "Oil Alert" lamp, which flashes when you try and start the engine to indicate the oil level is too low. Oil Alert is featured on all Honda generators, pumps, and many other power equipment products that usually remain stationary during operation.
All that said, no Honda walk-behinds mowers have an Oil Alert device (!). This is because most mowers are operated at various inclines, degrees of elevation, rough soil conditions, etc., and it would be very difficult to make a float inside the oil pan operate reliably.
I presume this only applies to the Honda branded mowers not all applications of Honda engines. My Ransomes mower with the Honda GVX 390 has the oil alert on it. It is a audible alarm that goes off when the oil is too low I have only ever had it activate when I was changing the oil. I would speculate because there was just enough charge left in the system to power the alarm briefly.
#46
D
DaForce
D
DaForce
I don't know what engine is on the mower or if the oil system is a slap stick or pressurized system. You mentioned that you were mowing the slopes and that may be part of the cause. I have slopes of 15-35 degrees along the two roads running by my property and in some places it is to steep to use my riding mower. I had a high wheel push mower I used and it had an 8hp Briggs 4 cycle engine.
The problem I had that mowing in a certain direction with the mower tipped to the left at up to 35 degrees the engine would overheat and stop. It turns out that at that amount of tilt the oil would pool to one side of the pan and the slap stick would not disperse enough oil (if any) to lubricate the engine and it would overheat and stop suddenly.
Don't know if that was the problem in the failure of your mower but you might consider that.
The problem I had that mowing in a certain direction with the mower tipped to the left at up to 35 degrees the engine would overheat and stop. It turns out that at that amount of tilt the oil would pool to one side of the pan and the slap stick would not disperse enough oil (if any) to lubricate the engine and it would overheat and stop suddenly.
Don't know if that was the problem in the failure of your mower but you might consider that.
#47
H
harryr6574
H
harryr6574
Hi, I am old guy who used to be a Honda tech and I can tell you that Honda makes some of the best engines in the world. That being said I think 8" tall grass is a tall order for any mower, but the only issue would be bogging down or not cutting good. I do not buy the fact that you blew the mower up. Most all Hondas have what is called and oil alert system which will shut the engine down if it gets low on oil. If you were cutting on a pretty good slope the oil could move to one side, particularly if the oil was a little low, causing the oil alert to shut the mower off. Also, if on a slope it is possible for both the oil and the gas to leak out of the overflow on the carb and the vent on the crankcase. I would like to see the tech work on it to make sure he and your boss aren't trying to pull something. Another thing, if on a slope the oil would almost certainly get into the cyl. causing white smoke. Good luck, but I have to say I never blamed an employee for breaking something, it is the owners responsibility to make sure the equipment is in shape to do the days work. What if you had let his daughter use the mower. I know this is long winded, but I believe I would find another boss. Harry,
#48
C
Corvet3640
C
Corvet3640
Also, 8 inches of what? 8 inches of wet crabgrass is harder than 8 inches an other tall fescue grass. But it comes down to what your boss instructed you to do. I agree with the previous posters. If my employee is using a power drill as a hammer next to me and I watch him/her do it then the drill dies. My fault. Same person is told not to and does it anyway, their fault. I have over worked equipment unintentionally, you don't it any favors- but every time I have done so they start to run poor,(misfire low no power) or just choke out. Let it cool and get back in the game. The two repairs required from these stunts included cleaning a dirty radiator shield on a John Deere mower, and replacing the spark plugs on-come to think of it another John Deere mower I borrowed. I have had one engine subject to gas and oil mixing. It was a tow behind swisher mower with high hours and subject to serious physical beating during operations. Never overworked.
#49
T
themowerguy
T
themowerguy
From my experience, I would guess that when you stopped to clean out under the deck, there may have been a piece of debris in the fuel system that caused the float valve to stick open, allowing the carb to dump gas into the cylinder. Gas is thin enough to seep past the rings which would thin out the oil and cause it to dump through the crankcase vent - hence the leaked gas and oil and the smoke. While this would not be covered under warranty, it is also not anyone in particular's fault. It is just one of those things that happens. It probably needs an oil change and to have the carburetor cleaned, then run until any residual oil in the breather or cylinder burns off and it will be good to go again. Hope this helps! ($0.02)
#50
G
Glenn300
G
Glenn300
First if the mower was smoking the oil was too low orthe oil too hot or too thin
and it was a brakdown of the oil cauing smoke
second of all if the mower would not restart there is a good possibility that
the fuel vapor locked in the carb and prevented it from starting or if the oil
was low and the engine had a switch that will not allow the engine to run if
the oil is too low.
Check the compression and if good = proably low or bad oil if compression
is bad then the engine may have broken a ring but doubtful on a good mower
Once the oil is filled to the proper level then spin the engine with the spark
plug out and see if it fires - if it does then it only leaves the fuel as the problem
If the engine does not fire then find out if it is a bad coil or oil sensor or
a grounded out coil
Now the only thing left to check is the fuel flow.If you spray starting fluid into the intake of the carb and it starts and dies start looking for a clogged fuel tank or clogged fuel line or fuel filter or a blockage of fuel going into the carb. Or there
exist the possibilit that the fuel had a lot of water in it and the fuel would
not run the engine. Also make sure also the carb chokes and dechokes properly before condeming the carb to tear it down and repair it.
and it was a brakdown of the oil cauing smoke
second of all if the mower would not restart there is a good possibility that
the fuel vapor locked in the carb and prevented it from starting or if the oil
was low and the engine had a switch that will not allow the engine to run if
the oil is too low.
Check the compression and if good = proably low or bad oil if compression
is bad then the engine may have broken a ring but doubtful on a good mower
Once the oil is filled to the proper level then spin the engine with the spark
plug out and see if it fires - if it does then it only leaves the fuel as the problem
If the engine does not fire then find out if it is a bad coil or oil sensor or
a grounded out coil
Now the only thing left to check is the fuel flow.If you spray starting fluid into the intake of the carb and it starts and dies start looking for a clogged fuel tank or clogged fuel line or fuel filter or a blockage of fuel going into the carb. Or there
exist the possibilit that the fuel had a lot of water in it and the fuel would
not run the engine. Also make sure also the carb chokes and dechokes properly before condeming the carb to tear it down and repair it.
#51
S
Swarf
S
Swarf
Re: Did I break this mower?...I think NOT.
(1) Overloading will not destroy an engine----Just stall it.
(2) A failed engine must have another cause. Diagnose this and then apportion blame.
(My conclusion...Overreacting employer needs to calm down.)
(1) Overloading will not destroy an engine----Just stall it.
(2) A failed engine must have another cause. Diagnose this and then apportion blame.
(My conclusion...Overreacting employer needs to calm down.)
#52
beg
beg
my honda did the same thing on 5 inches of grass.Did I make myself pay for it"?heck no I use lawnboys now.oh yeah there is no gurauntee on a mower that is used commercialy.
#53
L
lobeaux
when you tilted the mower on it`s side to clean out the bottom, and tilted it with carb side down then you had oil go into the carb through the engein breather tube i see this alot. it wont start because of oil now on the spark plug. check the spark plug .
L
lobeaux
Situation: I work for a guy who runs a small landscaping company, and we also have a mowing circuit. We were going through about 5 yards, with him hitting the flat areas on his zero-point and me doing the slopes and trim work with a Honda self-propelled mower. I don't know the exact model number, but he claims he paid ~$1000 for it, so must be higher end.
We had mowed 4 yards earlier in the day, it was about 90-95 degrees out. On the fifth, with grass at about 8 inches tall. I had the self-propel lever fully depressed, letting it pull me at the pace it wanted to go (a brisk walk). After 15 strips on the last yard, the mower suddenly died (no slow down). I tried to restart it, but the rope didn't want to go, so I checked for clogs. No grass, but I did find a bit of mud and a lot of dried clay on the axle. I chipped away what I could until the blade moved easily, then tried to restart. It went a few feet, died, and gave off white smoke. Checked gas, saw it was pretty low, and I sent the owner's teenage daughter who was out helping to get a can and fill it up. Tried again after, still no joy, more white smoke. Called the owner over, and at that point he accused me of blowing it up by pushing it too hard. There was oil on the deck with gas mixed in, so it looks like a blown gasket. He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this? My husband is an engineer, he thinks this is crap (the mower was only a month old), and the guy either didn't have enough oil in it, or it was a lemon. Or possibly it overheated, since it was a hot day and it's air cooled. I just wanted to get some input from experienced operators before I cover the repair costs for his equipment like he wants me to. He claims the failure was due to operator abuse, which the warrant won't cover. Again, appreciate any input!
when you tilted the mower on it`s side to clean out the bottom, and tilted it with carb side down then you had oil go into the carb through the engein breather tube i see this alot. it wont start because of oil now on the spark plug. check the spark plug .
#54
T
themowerguy
This is incorrect. While it varies from one manufacturer to another, there is usually at least a 30 day warranty even for commercial use. Many factories offer a longer commercial warranty on their higher end equipment, and some factories do not even differ between consumer and commercial use. Always check your owners manual for the actual warranty coverage time frame and exclusions.
T
themowerguy
my honda did the same thing on 5 inches of grass.Did I make myself pay for it"?heck no I use lawnboys now.oh yeah there is no gurauntee on a mower that is used commercialy.
This is incorrect. While it varies from one manufacturer to another, there is usually at least a 30 day warranty even for commercial use. Many factories offer a longer commercial warranty on their higher end equipment, and some factories do not even differ between consumer and commercial use. Always check your owners manual for the actual warranty coverage time frame and exclusions.
#55
F
FTH
F
FTH
You did not break it and even if you did it is his business he should take care of it. He should get off his zero and check the equipment between each job. If you were a full time employee maybe it would be your job to check oil etc. In this case it is his responsibility to maintain his equipment.
Situation: I work for a guy who runs a small landscaping company, and we also have a mowing circuit. We were going through about 5 yards, with him hitting the flat areas on his zero-point and me doing the slopes and trim work with a Honda self-propelled mower. I don't know the exact model number, but he claims he paid ~$1000 for it, so must be higher end.
We had mowed 4 yards earlier in the day, it was about 90-95 degrees out. On the fifth, with grass at about 8 inches tall. I had the self-propel lever fully depressed, letting it pull me at the pace it wanted to go (a brisk walk). After 15 strips on the last yard, the mower suddenly died (no slow down). I tried to restart it, but the rope didn't want to go, so I checked for clogs. No grass, but I did find a bit of mud and a lot of dried clay on the axle. I chipped away what I could until the blade moved easily, then tried to restart. It went a few feet, died, and gave off white smoke. Checked gas, saw it was pretty low, and I sent the owner's teenage daughter who was out helping to get a can and fill it up. Tried again after, still no joy, more white smoke. Called the owner over, and at that point he accused me of blowing it up by pushing it too hard. There was oil on the deck with gas mixed in, so it looks like a blown gasket. He claims the mower will feed faster than the blade can keep up if the self-propel is fully depressed, and that I blew it up by running it to fast.
Is there any truth to this? My husband is an engineer, he thinks this is crap (the mower was only a month old), and the guy either didn't have enough oil in it, or it was a lemon. Or possibly it overheated, since it was a hot day and it's air cooled. I just wanted to get some input from experienced operators before I cover the repair costs for his equipment like he wants me to. He claims the failure was due to operator abuse, which the warrant won't cover. Again, appreciate any input!
#56
4
4jd318
It does not matter even if it was your fault you can not be made to pay for equipment damage. A new Honda should enjoy 8 inches of grass with no sweat.
Gp
4
4jd318
I'm not 100% sure on 8 inches, it was 2 weeks worth of growth in Northern Virginia with a bunch of rain, for whatever it's worth.
It was never asked of me to check or add oil to any equipment.
My husband did go talk to him. He was told to leave when he pointed out that either a.) he watched me "abuse" the equipment and did nothing to stop it or b.) he didn't see me and has no idea at what speed I was mowing. Eventually he got him to calm down and agree to take it in and see what the shop says. Still haven't heard back.
It does not matter even if it was your fault you can not be made to pay for equipment damage. A new Honda should enjoy 8 inches of grass with no sweat.
Gp
#57
C
corrod
C
corrod
NO!! I dont think so. Ive cut 8 " grass and had no problem. If it had plenty of oil it should have been fine. Keep om pluggging and dont worry.
Ken Riddle
South Carolina
Ken Riddle
South Carolina
#58
J
jehiatt
J
jehiatt
I vote no - you did not.
Whomever is your leader or mechanic should have checked the oil and all before giving you the go signal. If that was the cause ?
You were the operator and made it cut as fast as you could. Nothing wrong with that. I never saw any mowers with limiting cutting instructions in the book.
I would like to know what did break. An indictment for abuse can't be supported unless the autopsy says you murdered it.
Get er done! lol
Whomever is your leader or mechanic should have checked the oil and all before giving you the go signal. If that was the cause ?
You were the operator and made it cut as fast as you could. Nothing wrong with that. I never saw any mowers with limiting cutting instructions in the book.
I would like to know what did break. An indictment for abuse can't be supported unless the autopsy says you murdered it.
Get er done! lol
#59
C
Cimba
C
Cimba
If I may venture an opinion,
at one month old, I am going to guess that he put this mower directly into service, and never changed the "Break in" oil, which is not designed for continuous service but is suppose to be changed out in about 5 hours run time. This could lead to overheating and seizing. Just MHO.
at one month old, I am going to guess that he put this mower directly into service, and never changed the "Break in" oil, which is not designed for continuous service but is suppose to be changed out in about 5 hours run time. This could lead to overheating and seizing. Just MHO.
#60
CauZey
CauZey
Need an update from the OP what happend
#61
T
Tom59
T
Tom59
If the thread starter doesn't care , why should we.....:confused2:
I'd like to know the outcome here just because we discussed it for days.
I'd like to know the outcome here just because we discussed it for days.
#62
D
dunoon
D
dunoon
I didn't read all the replies, so if this has been covered I'm sorry.
From what I figure Equipment failure is on the employer It's the price of doing business, unless you were intentionally trying to tear up his equipment, also did he hold some kind of training for the equipment that you were using? If not he's SOL.
From what I figure Equipment failure is on the employer It's the price of doing business, unless you were intentionally trying to tear up his equipment, also did he hold some kind of training for the equipment that you were using? If not he's SOL.
#63
O
oldyellr
O
oldyellr
First of all, the employer should have given the employee some training in operating and maintaining the mower, which does not appear evident. Without specific training and instructions, such as checking oil level or whether or not to attempt cutting "8 inch tall grass", any damage is on the employer.Was the employee expected to be an expert in the workings of the mower and paid accordingly?
In the end it depend on the diagnosis of what caused the failure or malfunction and how it could have been prevented. If it is determined to be operator error, was the operator trained accordingly to avoid it?
In the end it depend on the diagnosis of what caused the failure or malfunction and how it could have been prevented. If it is determined to be operator error, was the operator trained accordingly to avoid it?
#64
S
snapperman1
S
snapperman1
I don't think you broke the mower, I would hope though that he instructed you to check the oil at each mowing. Like the other guy said if it is really deep grass mow in half swaths, or run the mower pace slower so it can keep up with the grass, (not the engine speed) I always run my mower at full throttle and let the govner do the work. My motor is set at a fixed speed. I would say stick your mower and your job, unless he instructed you to check the oil and fill as needed at the start of each mowing session.