Export thread

We are purchasing a home with 6 acres to mow in Indiana. It is flat with a decent number of trees. I'm thinking a zero-turn is my best bet with a 60" deck, and was initially overwhelmed by my options. I am wanting the best mower for the money that will last a long time (doesn't everyone?). While I love the durability of a commercial mower, I just don't think I need to spend that much. I've kind of narrowed it down to the John Deere X465 and the Dixon Ultra 61. Both seem to be top of the line residential mowers for around $5,500. If I go with commercial quality, it seems I'll be spending at least $3,000 more. Any suggestions between the two? Am I missing something else out there that would be quality for the same or less money? Thanks for the help!

Buying a new to you rig is fun but can turn bad real quick. What exactly do you want it to do? Just mow? Or blow snow in the winter and till the garden in the fall? Just mowing i would look at the TORO Titan. Its a semi commercial machine with a solid kohler or kawasaki engine. It also packs a fab deck and and excellent cut. How much do you want to spend? Do you have any tight spots between trees and other obsticles? Do you "like" to mow or just git'r done and forget about quality? Are you looking for new with a waranty or used? How far is you closest dealer, and are they nice? alot to think about...i chose TORO because they were 10 mi down the road and had smiling faces and a good rep.

Hello and WELCOME to LMF to Both of you...

Those are to DIFFERENT types of mowers... and your price must be for good USED machines....

The ZTR Dixon should be a very handy and fast mower...
The Lawn Tractor John Deere should be a good all around yard tractor... Like what was said... depends on what you are planning to do... for mowing, the ZRT is going to be hard to beat... :smile:KennyV

jmac1 said:

We are purchasing a home with 6 acres to mow in Indiana. It is flat with a decent number of trees. I'm thinking a zero-turn is my best bet with a 60" deck, and was initially overwhelmed by my options. I am wanting the best mower for the money that will last a long time (doesn't everyone?). While I love the durability of a commercial mower, I just don't think I need to spend that much. I've kind of narrowed it down to the John Deere X465 and the Dixon Ultra 61. Both seem to be top of the line residential mowers for around $5,500. If I go with commercial quality, it seems I'll be spending at least $3,000 more. Any suggestions between the two? Am I missing something else out there that would be quality for the same or less money? Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

For the money you are talking you can buy a brand new John Deere Z-465 with 62 inch deck.
For mowing it will waaaay out perform any tractor type mower.

I prefer a tractor for some jobs that is why I have both kinds you could buy a good used tractor for other jobs and a new ZTR for all that mowing and still be at about 6K

I realized in my initial post I stated an X-465, where I meant to say I am considering a Z-465. Both the JD Z465 and the Dixon Ultra 61 seem to be comparable machines as they both have similar horsepower with the a 61 inch deck, and similar weight (I assume that speaks to the gauge of the frame and deck).

I do think I want to focus on a machine to JUST mow, mainly because I think zero turns seem to be much faster at JUST mowing. I grew up mowing a large yard for my dad, and worked as a mower during a summer in college so I would say I'm looking forward to having some mowing to do again after 16 years of push mowing.

JD dealer is only about a mile from property. Dixon is 10 miles, with most other brands (including Toro) about 25 miles away.

Went to look at the Dixon Ultra 61 today, and was very impressed. I really feel like it is going to be hard decision between the JD Z465 and the Dixon. The engine in the Dixon is a 27 hp Kohler Courage vs. the 27 hp Briggs with cyclonic air filtration in the JD. Anyone have experience or feelings on the two engines or any other aspect of the mowers? Dixon's are not talked about very much on this forum, so I gather they aren't nearly as popular (at least with the regular contributors.)

Dixon makes a good mower...
The Donaldson type air cleaner is a big plus on the JD... You will need to try them both to find what differences you like... :smile:KennyV

jmac1 said:

Went to look at the Dixon Ultra 61 today, and was very impressed. I really feel like it is going to be hard decision between the JD Z465 and the Dixon. The engine in the Dixon is a 27 hp Kohler Courage vs. the 27 hp Briggs with cyclonic air filtration in the JD. Anyone have experience or feelings on the two engines or any other aspect of the mowers? Dixon's are not talked about very much on this forum, so I gather they aren't nearly as popular (at least with the regular contributors.)

Click to expand...

Between the two you mention it would be a easy decision for me.

This spring I ask Mutton in Ft Wayne what was the number one problem they saw in their service department and it was blown head gaskets on the Kohler.

When it comes times to sell the JD will bring waaaay more $$$$$$$$ than the Dixon and years from now JD will be around with parts and service.

The Dixon may or may not.

Thanks Bart. I see you own a Z445 which appears to the same as the Z465 just with a slightly smaller deck, so I am guessing by your recommendation that you are fully satisfied with the mower.

I also see you own a Grasshopper which I consider to be a commercial mower (at least they are priced that way.) I would also be interested in you comparing the two. Again, I'm looking at 6 acres and my budget makes new commercial quality mowers out of the question, but the dealers (and my more affluent farmer friends) all say that commercial built mowers. I just don't think I need that much quality when I'll only have it running a few hours a week. Would you agree?

Sorry to ask so many questions but I haven't actually spoken with anyone who owns a Z445 or 465.

jmac1 said:

Thanks Bart. I see you own a Z445 which appears to the same as the Z465 just with a slightly smaller deck, so I am guessing by your recommendation that you are fully satisfied with the mower.

I also see you own a Grasshopper which I consider to be a commercial mower (at least they are priced that way.) I would also be interested in you comparing the two. Again, I'm looking at 6 acres and my budget makes new commercial quality mowers out of the question, but the dealers (and my more affluent farmer friends) all say that commercial built mowers. I just don't think I need that much quality when I'll only have it running a few hours a week. Would you agree?

Sorry to ask so many questions but I haven't actually spoken with anyone who owns a Z445 or 465.

Click to expand...

I really like my new EZ Trak but I just got it this spring so it has little use yet.

I don't think you can talk about how something is reliable that is so new.

I have a 1985 JD 430 nothing done to it in 26 years and a 1986 JD 180 with nothing done to it till this week had to replace sealed bearing on the deck.
If I had not been spraying it off with the hose it probably would still be going but water and worn seals don't play well together.:laughing:

A commercial mower is heaver built if you are going to mow reasonably smooth lawn the ZTrak should last years but if you mow pasture it really is not built for that.

I read on here people mowing what could be considered pasture with a mower, Everyone around here uses a big tractor and a Bush hog for that I would not try mowing that kind of ground with a finishing mower:confused2:

KennyV is so right "The Donaldson type air cleaner is a big plus". Most all major brands have gone to them, they make kits to convert to that system if you find a used mower you want to buy.

Outstanding air cleaner!:thumbsup:

With the amount of property you have a good used compact or very large GT would be, by far, your best bet-you will find lots of other things to do with it that a ZT could never, ever do; in the long run a nice diesel tractor will last longer than you do and pay for itself a few times over. A sixty one inch deck is huge, your property is gigantic-I don't see anything but a cut, gt making it more than a few years.

Then again if I were so smart I wouldn't still be stuck with a poop zt that has been in the shop more than it has been in our yard.

robert said:

With the amount of property you have a good used compact or very large GT would be, by far, your best bet-you will find lots of other things to do with it that a ZT could never, ever do; in the long run a nice diesel tractor will last longer than you do and pay for itself a few times over. A sixty one inch deck is huge, your property is gigantic-I don't see anything but a cut, gt making it more than a few years.

Then again if I were so smart I wouldn't still be stuck with a poop zt that has been in the shop more than it has been in our yard.

Click to expand...

Although a zero turn is going to the most efficient way to cut grass, a compact tractor is much much more versitile. I know you've spent a lot of time laboring over this decision and I don't want to confuse you but 6 acres is a large parcel and if you have any serious landscaping aspirations, consider the compact tractor if you have not already.

A zero turn would probably be the fastest, however since you said a lot of trees, will you be able to get between them with a 60" deck? You may also want something with a bagger. I don't think it is very fun to rake 6 acres...
If you plan on using the tractor for things other than mowing (snow plowing, snow blowing, towing, etc), then I would suggest getting a regular tractor with pedal drive. John deere would be a good choice for a long area, so would simplicity. I would try to avoid the cheaper brands like MTD, Craftsman, Murray, etc.

Robert, I have reached a surpising conclusion, a zt, on normal sized properties, is not necessarily the fastest way to mow-that 3 point turn that you really have to take in order not to skuff the turf takes up time and I don't believe that, except for the fastest mowers you can make up the lost time in turning.
For that matter, can you even use the fast speeds of alot of zt on anything other than manicured grass with no or very slight bumps?
Now 6 acres, depending on the sq ft of grass may change things, then again it may present even a stronger argument in favor of a cut/or large gt.

At any rate, if the op goes zt the machine will have to be upper commercial quality to hold up-big engine, big deck, big hydro's-no powder metal here he needs the real deal.

I'm thinking a Kubota 'B' / Cub Cadet Yanmar or Mahindra which is alot of diesel tractor for the cash, an awful lot of tractor for the cash.

Wish I had his 'problem'.

hmm , great thread , i may re-consider now also......3-6 acres and you may hav some brush/pasture type mowing , ZTR could break..........compact tractor with PTO may be the better option.......is this correct .???

woi2ld said:

hmm , great thread , i may re-consider now also......3-6 acres and you may hav some brush/pasture type mowing , ZTR could break..........compact tractor with PTO may be the better option.......is this correct .???

Click to expand...

I personally had to make a similar choice and I went with a compact tractor. This is my second one, I sold the first (i don't collect mowers). I just got off my machine, and I stood back and admired it for a few seconds before I came in for water (it's 107F here now).
I don't know what the buget is but I wouldn't necessarily let money drive my selection process. You don't want to buy the wrong machine. That can get costly, very costly.
Remember a tractor lasts a lot longer than most mowers, so it's a long term investment. The cost to consider is what you paid for it minus what you could potentialy sell it for. If you bought an older used tractor in good condition that is easy to get parts for, you could make money if you ever decided to sell it.
When you think about the versitility of a small (15-35 hp) tractor, with a loader, box blade, finish mower and bush hog, it makes sense to at least consider that purchase, if you do your homework.
If you have ever thought of making some serious landscape changes or cultivating portions of your property, you may need a tractor.

We are getting ready to close on the house in November, so the mower is back on my mind as I haven't purchased anything yet. Thanks for all the responses. I wanted to clarify a few things that have come up.

The property is six total acres, all flat. It is basically a 2 acre by 3 acre rectangle with a drive cutting to a house in the middle of the lot. Some trees, but plenty of room to mow around them. With the exception of 8 fruit trees that are pretty close and will need some careful manuevering. Maybe a little push mowing in this area.

I was leaning towards the jdz465 when an interesting alternative presented itself. A friend has a jd x485 gt with 60" deck and 54" plow for sale for $5,000. His son works in the jd service dept and this thing is an immaculate 2002 with 700 hours. So the new z465 zero turn is the same price as a used x485 gt. I have enjoyed the discussion about
the benefits of a gt, especially with the long drive which will need snow removed this winter.

Any suggestions? Is $5,000 a fair price for the x485?

I appreciate the feedback.

jmac1 said:

We are getting ready to close on the house in November, so the mower is back on my mind as I haven't purchased anything yet. Thanks for all the responses. I wanted to clarify a few things that have come up.

The property is six total acres, all flat. It is basically a 2 acre by 3 acre rectangle with a drive cutting to a house in the middle of the lot. Some trees, but plenty of room to mow around them. With the exception of 8 fruit trees that are pretty close and will need some careful manuevering. Maybe a little push mowing in this area.

I was leaning towards the jdz465 when an interesting alternative presented itself. A friend has a jd x485 gt with 60" deck and 54" plow for sale for $5,000. His son works in the jd service dept and this thing is an immaculate 2002 with 700 hours. So the new z465 zero turn is the same price as a used x485 gt. I have enjoyed the discussion about
the benefits of a gt, especially with the long drive which will need snow removed this winter.

Any suggestions? Is $5,000 a fair price for the x485?

I appreciate the feedback.

Click to expand...

Years ago I tried to plow snow with a GT I put on tire chains and it was better but still would not push snow so I added wheel weights better but not enough so I added 400 lbs and then with the chains on it would push snow straight ahead but if I angeled the blade it would just push the front of the tractor across the drive.

Pushing straight ahead the snow slid off the end so I gave up and sold the tractor and blade bought a JD 430 with a snow blower and now it don't matter how deep it is I just clear the drive with no problem.

The dirty little secret that people don't tell you is you can only plow 1 inch maybe 2 inches if you got a big heavy tractor.

If you buy a tractor buy a blower NOT a blade .

I have not used a belt drive blower but they should work OK my JD is a shaft drive and works with the hydraulic system.I live in northern Indiana and I need something that will move more than a couple inches of snow.

I would not even consider mowing that much with a tractor but if you are retired and have nothing else to do maybe you won't mind spending all that time on the mower.

If you buy the tractor buy a swisser 66" trail behind mower.
Then with 126 inch cut you can almost mow as fast as the Z465 can.

Do you really think the zero turn saves that much time vs a tractor? I've never mowed with a ztr so I am seriously asking. Even when we are comparing the same size deck - 60"? Is it because you can mow at a higher speed?

jmac1 said:

Do you really think the zero turn saves that much time vs a tractor? I've never mowed with a ztr so I am seriously asking. Even when we are comparing the same size deck - 60"? Is it because you can mow at a higher speed?

Click to expand...

Quite simply YES

The compact tractor is only a consideration because of the versatility. That is the trade off, time for versatility. If you don't need the tractor for other uses, it doesn't make sense.I can tell you truthfully you will find a myriad of uses for that machine. Once you have one for a few months you will wonder how you got along without it. But I would have to ask "Why are buying 6 acres if you don't want to work with it some how or another"?
I can't really say how much time you'll save with a ZTR over a CT but a conservative guess would be about 1/3. I would say you could cut 6 acres at least 33% faster with a ZTR, but that is a wild guess. It could be 50%.
Look at the long term goals, if you aren't going to have any livestock, large garden or landscaping aspirations than you should get the ZTR. If you want to have the ability to make your property more valuable, move dirt, snow and just about anything else, get a tractor with a loader, mower, and any number of attachments.

Whatever your choice...pictures are obligatory at this point....OK?

What Black Bart has said is correct... If that package had a blower rather than a blade.. it might be worth considering...
With the blade, it only 'Looks' like you could move snow.
A friend of mine was about to buy a blade for his Cub Cadet, I told him he could use my Garden tractor size blade... if it worked for him he could have it for about one tenth the price of the new blade. He did what Bart and I did.... After his first winter of snow... He now has a rig With a blower...

As to mowing, a ZT will be mowing at full width, almost all the time, at the turns (once you get the hang of it)... and along the straight runs... (since the deck itself is in front of you), you will gain a bit... But the big speed up on a ZT is any obstacles you have, are no longer going to interrupt your mowing...
That coupled with the faster speed & comfort you will find (on a well designed ZT) is why it is going to be a lot faster than a GT...
A Lot faster... :smile:KennyV
PS... and Like RobertBrown said... Pictures ...

jmac1 said:

Do you really think the zero turn saves that much time vs a tractor? I've never mowed with a ztr so I am seriously asking. Even when we are comparing the same size deck - 60"? Is it because you can mow at a higher speed?

Click to expand...

This is something that needs to be a poll done on.

Only person that I know who thinks a tractor is nearly as fast is Robert, He had a ZTR and could not learn to drive it properly.

The tractor is heavy on the front tires and when you try to mow fast they mash the grass and it don't have time to come back up for a good cut if you go fast.

How fast depends on what deck but on a ZTR you save on the turns on the end also.
If the tractor is a hydro drive then it will be faster than a conventional shift because you can stop and back up quicker.

A tractor is nice for pulling a roller/aerator/spredder so that is why I have both but the ZTR will more than cut your mowing time in half.

In the spring when we get the rain you will need to mow twice a week that will be a lot of time mowing with the tractor.

If it was me I would buy the ZTR then pick up a good running old tractor for 500 bucks and use it for the towing jobs.

If you buy a tractor with all that mowing consider one of these. Swisher | Trail Mowers | Lawn Mowers | Grounds Maintenance | Northern Tool + Equipment maintenance&mkwid=sxmTbOUrC&pcrid=8761608191&mt=b

Years ago I had 2 of them and I pulled one on each side of my tractor.

I will definitely include some pictures when I make a purchase.

While the property is currently 6 acres of grass right now, we do want to fence off part of it for some livestock. We'll start with a few pigs this spring and graduate to a steer or two in a year or so. I was talking with a farmer friend last night who said I'd probably come out ahead if I fenced off an acre or two. Plus we want a large garden...

And I'm not retired...34 with four kids...that is the reason for the house with acreage. I want our 3 boys to be boys. We live in town now, and I want them to have room to ride their bikes, have a go-cart, learn to care for livestock, etc. My wife grew up on a dairy farm, and wants to get back to the "country".

So with that said, I think the garden tractor would be put to good use over time. We could add a Johnny Bucket, a hydro tiller, the possibilities (and $$ to spend) seem endless. But I could also go with the ZTR and add a cheaper GT that would serve my needs well. I'm certainly not buying it to spend 8 hours a week on a mower.

Thanks again for all of the feedback and thoughts. This is a great forum! I'll make my decision soon!

jmac1 said:

I will definitely include some pictures when I make a purchase.

While the property is currently 6 acres of grass right now, we do want to fence off part of it for some livestock. We'll start with a few pigs this spring and graduate to a steer or two in a year or so. I was talking with a farmer friend last night who said I'd probably come out ahead if I fenced off an acre or two. Plus we want a large garden...

And I'm not retired...34 with four kids...that is the reason for the house with acreage. I want our 3 boys to be boys. We live in town now, and I want them to have room to ride their bikes, have a go-cart, learn to care for livestock, etc. My wife grew up on a dairy farm, and wants to get back to the "country".

So with that said, I think the garden tractor would be put to good use over time. We could add a Johnny Bucket, a hydro tiller, the possibilities (and $$ to spend) seem endless. But I could also go with the ZTR and add a cheaper GT that would serve my needs well. I'm certainly not buying it to spend 8 hours a week on a mower.

Thanks again for all of the feedback and thoughts. This is a great forum! I'll make my decision soon!

Click to expand...

I think you are correct in wanting to live in the country.
The lawn don't make money it cost so I would use 1 or 2 acres max for lawn and the rest for other use.
Your kids could learn to feed the live stock it would be much better than them running the street in the city.

This idea changes everything you may want to get a Compact Utility tractor with a finishing mower it will be big enough to use a front bucket a blower and several other things that you may want to use.

The CUT will cost much more but in the long run would be a great piece of equipment if you can afford the price right now.

Doing away with mowing all that acreage makes sense mowing 6 acres in the spring will be a good 6 or 7 hours per week of mowing with the x485 .

If you can only mow after work then you would spend 1 1/2 hours per day 4 days a week.
You would soon get tired of that.
Cost of fuel and fertilizer would be awesome

BlackBart, why would Scag specifically state in their faq section that the zt is, by design, prone to damaging turf and that even very tight turns (not zero turns) have a great potential to damage the grass- are you going on record as stating that this major maker of zt mowers knows not of what they speak?

I did 'learn' how to stop putting union labels all over my yard by making the recommended 'T' turn and I did learn something else when I got rid of the crappy Exmark and bought a Cub Cadet GT2000-the best deal by far in the heavy duty LT or GT market, no average homeowner will save a significant amount of time by using a zt over a quality LT/GT. Additionally I am convinced that any larger property owner would make a huge mistake by buying a zt over a cut as the single purchase. Not only will the cut offer more capability than any zt but will mow in just about the same amount of time as any zt-this cannot be intelligently disputed.

A quality LT/GT or cut is the better choice for anyone other than a pro, this type of machine offers far better comfort and safety; add in the additional capabilities and the purchase of a tractor over a zt SHOULD be a no brainer.

Please everyone, go to the Scag site, then to the faq and read for yourself what this maker of zero turn machines has to say about the operation of the zt.....

The do yourself a favor and go here to the Cub Cadet pictures (scroll down past the text to the Cub Cadet gallery) and see for yourself the real differences between this series Cub and ANY other maker,

http://www.betsy-tom.smugmug.com/

6 acres isn't enough land for livestock or pigs. That is the amount of land I have and I had the same idea. I tryed 4 steers for my first venture. First thing is you will need a building so they can get out of the weather. The next thing is to feed them. With only 6 acres you will have to buy all their food. You will have to keep them for at least two years before you can butcher them. I can almost bet on top of that they will get out of there pen and boy is that fun when you want to do something else beside chase steers. They also make a big mess. I also tryed pigs with all the same problems as steers. Only with pigs you can butcher them the first year. I found the pigs make a lot bigger mess then the cows . Then after the second year I got rats liveing with the pigs. That did me in I had it with livestock and pigs. I know you will try it anyways just like I did and I sure hope you better luck then I had. I will buy my meat at the store and let the farmers do the work. I also tryed a horse and that was a big money pit with no return.

robert said:

..., why would Scag specifically state in their faq section that the zt is, by design, prone to damaging turf and that even very tight turns (not zero turns) have a great potential to damage the grass- ...

I did 'learn' how to stop putting union labels all over my yard by making the recommended 'T' turn

...no average homeowner will save a significant amount of time by using a zt over a quality LT/GT. Additionally I am convinced that any larger property owner would make a huge mistake by buying a zt over a cut as the single purchase. Not only will the cut offer more capability than any zt but will mow in just about the same amount of time as any zt-this cannot be intelligently disputed.

A quality LT/GT or cut is the better choice for anyone other than a pro, this type of machine offers far better comfort and safety; add in the additional capabilities




....

Click to expand...

Robert , I realize you have addressed your question to BlackBart... but your statements about ZT are not completely accurate...
First any piece of equipment, if not properly used, has the potential of a negative outcome... and even a wheelbarrow could damage turf in the wrong conditions...

I have a true ZT mower... With full Cab and a 72 inch, very heavy duty deck... It weighs Over 2000 Pounds.... I can mow and leave the turf undisturbed ... I'm by no stretch of the imagination a 'pro'... but it did take a bit of trial & error learning, how to nimbly operate this One Ton plus mower... I would never expect someone that had no experience operating a ZT , to jump on it and immediately have great results... BUT even with this Heavy weight Industrial ZT ... It can be done...
AND I can attach any implement to accomplish anything from aeration to seeding fertilization and spraying, snow blowing OR plowing plus several choices of Different Types of mowers... With the advantage that the majority of attachments are in Front of me, allowing easier and faster accurate use...

I do agree that most ZTs do not easily adapt for All jobs... My point is, if I can operate a ZT that weighs over a ton on regular turf without damaging it... anyone that applies themselves can quickly learn how to maneuver a light ZTR mower...
With a light Dixon ZTR you can Not damage turf even if you try...

As to speed,safety & comfort... commercial mowing companies do stellar jobs, using ZT's, mainly for the speed and quality results, while keeping employees on them 8 hours a day...

Homeowners have been using ZTs successfully for years...
The obvious use by 100's of thousands should say something for their ability... ZT's cost more, if they didn't provide additional value, you would not see them selling as well as they are.

The primary use for any mower is to Mow grass... no type of mower can cut grass faster than a ZTR.
If you need a compact Utility tractor... it will be handy... But it's ability to cut grass Fast is limited... And it really has the potential of damaging turf... I have a CUT and would never consider it the perfect lawn machine...
I know you had a bad experience with your ZTR, but look at ALL the others having Great results... :smile:KennyV

reynoldston said:

6 acres isn't enough land for livestock

Click to expand...

This is absolutely correct...
If you do not have the acreage to support stock... You are essentially operating a 'feed lot' ... and that will really upset your neighbors and community government...
Farming/Ranching is a bit of work But it requires a lot of space... On your size spot, after taking some of the 6 acres out for your house ... you may have enough left for 1 cow, any more and it will eventually become bare ground. :smile:KennyV

KennyV, its important for everyone thinking about purchasing a zero turn mower to understand the limitations of this design; and the biggest myth that must be put to rest is that ANYONE can make a zero turn on turf without causing damage to the grass.....have you read the info on the Scag site?, or for that matter have you read the info about engine applications in zero turn mowers on the Briggs site??

I will admit that for individuals in your situation a zero turn is good to have in the stable, but for those of us unable to have more than one machine a zero turn is dumb, real dumb.

I agree six acres is not enough for livestock, you wind up with poor conditions for the people as well as the animals.

I am also betting the six acres is more like pasture than a lawn that has been smoothed and planed for fast mowing. A ztr mower is fast for mowing once you get the lawn in good shape but will do little to help you get to that point. A ztr would be a good choice in a few years after you have the lawn in a smooth finish where you can maintain the higher ground speeds.

You could either hire out the ground work needed or get a large GT or small compact tractor to do this initial work. A small tractor and tiller along with some implements such as a landplane/grader works extremely well to smooth up lawn areas.

I do alot of this type work and use a Deere 4520 cab tractor, 110tlb cab tractor and an X749 to handle the close quarters work. You don't need to own all the equipment to do it one time though and I would recommend you hire out the initial work or rent the equipment for a short time if you wan't to do it yourself. Once you get the whole thing smoothed out then a fast riding mower or ztr would be the thing to have.

robert said:

KennyV, its important for everyone thinking about purchasing a zero turn mower to understand the limitations of this design; and the biggest myth that must be put to rest is that ANYONE can make a zero turn on turf without causing damage to the grass.....have you read the info on the Scag site?, or for that matter have you read the info about engine applications in zero turn mowers on the Briggs site??

I will admit that for individuals in your situation a zero turn is good to have in the stable, but for those of us unable to have more than one machine a zero turn is dumb, real dumb.

Click to expand...

My own issue with ztr mowers is their limited usefulness, no 8 in 1 tool which most people need. I much prefer the x749 GT with aws and 4x4 for my mountain terrain. With a three point hitch and 540 pto it is very handy to have when it is time to do other jobs.

jenkinsph, I believe that the 749 would be an excellent match for the op-many here cite the ability of zt's to accept accessories. I know my Exmark was very limited as to towing, I believe it was a 200lb max limit on the hitch, knowing this I suspect that most zt's are in the same ballpark. Some here maintain that the Grasshopper can do all sorts of things and there are many accessories for this machine and while there are alot of very expensive attachments for the GH I was curious as to what these can tow-would you believe that the official guideline is to tow with this machine only the load you can move by hand :laughing: big bucks for a machine that should not even tow a consumer lawn vac with

I wonder if any of the zt crowd here knows just how little weight the unitized and pump/motor drives are rated for....?

The people in Europe get all the good stuff

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkjnkP1agTE

robert said:

The people in Europe get all the good stuff

John Deere X749 Ultimate Diesel with Westa Type 450 snowblower (heavy snow) - YouTube

Click to expand...

I don't know anything about snow removal, but it seems to me that John Deere has all that it wants with that job.

robert said:

jenkinsph, I believe that the 749 would be an excellent match for the op-many here cite the ability of zt's to accept accessories. I know my Exmark was very limited as to towing, I believe it was a 200lb max limit on the hitch, knowing this I suspect that most zt's are in the same ballpark. Some here maintain that the Grasshopper can do all sorts of things and there are many accessories for this machine and while there are alot of very expensive attachments for the GH I was curious as to what these can tow-would you believe that the official guideline is to tow with this machine only the load you can move by hand :laughing: big bucks for a machine that should not even tow a consumer lawn vac with I wonder if any of the zt crowd here knows just how little weight the unitized and pump/motor drives are rated for....?

Click to expand...

Robert this is a stupid comment clearly you don't understand how these thing work.
The 200 pounds would be hitch weight NOT what it could pull.

I have a boat and trailer that weighs 3000 lbs and I use the grasshopper for pulling it.
When putting it in the garage only the GH turns tight enough to put it where I store it.

Robert my Grasshopper would pull you CC tractor back-wards and never slip a wheel.
It has bigger drive tires and weighs more than twice as much as your CC

RobertBrown said:

I don't know anything about snow removal, but it seems to me that John Deere has all that it wants with that job.

Click to expand...

Take another look at that video the snow is not deep except what he is blowing.
It has been pilled up their left lay and he is moving it.
The snow is not deep anywhere other than that pile

Fresh snow moves easy wet heavy snow that has been pushed into a pile is really hard to blow.

Black Bart said:

Robert my Grasshopper would pull you CC tractor back-wards and never slip a wheel.
It has bigger drive tires and weighs more than twice as much as your CC

Click to expand...

Awesome!!!

Just buy one of each. :biggrin:

Sammy the Red said:

Just buy one of each. :biggrin:

Click to expand...

Yep the only thing better than that is what I did buy 2 of each.:biggrin:

BlackBart, lets stop the urinating contest and discuss the facts as posted at Scag's website, at the Briggs and Stratton website and also the towing limits of Grasshopper mowers which came directly from Grasshopper themselves-sorry to burst your bubble.....

The FACTS directly from Scag are:
the zt is by design prone to turf damage
a true zero turn on turf will cause damage
most likely a tight turn on turf will cause damage
to avoid turf damage the 'T' turn must be practiced


The FACTS directly from the Briggs and Stratton website are:
the zt mower, by design, places the engine in the most hostile operating enivronment, behind the deck directly in the dust/debris 'plume' (I believe this is the word used) by contrast a tractor, conventional, situates the engine ahead of the deck; in a much more friendly operating environment.
Additionally the tractor application usually has the engine enclosed/covered which offers additional protection from dirt. Yes I know, this enclosure does elevate the operating temp but the makers allow for this by ducting fan air AND I would suggest that the temps of the typical zt, after mowing for a bit, are much higher than an enclosed tractor engine.....

Its interesting to me that the most 'vocal' defenders of the zt mower as the sole piece of equipment available come from those fortunate enough to own both a zero turn and a gt, lt or cut and really this is what I hope all take away from this thread because,

the average homeowner will buy the average homeowner quality zt, for the sake of discussion lets reference the Exmark 'Quest' that I bought, and this average homeowner model zt will offer certainly no better quality critical components than even entry level lawn tractors, in fact most mid range lawn tractors will offer better components and in one instance, the Cub GT series, the owner will not only get superior critical components but far better build quality to boot- not only for the same price point but more than likely at far less cost. AND even if one purchases an upscale zt with real components all that will be had is a dedicated MOWER, which may or may not offer options but will not offer much towing capability-yuk, yuk..

And herein lies the key I believe, alot of you don't like to believe that Cub Cadet can outdo the greene machine but thats okay because I also was ignorant of the facts also. The big difference is that I looked at those pictures, confirmed what I saw in person at a local Cub dealer and reached the only conclusion that could be reached- Cub builds one heck of a product, for those who are honest enough to see the facts through the misconceptions.


I came, I saw, I bought, I am glad......in the end its not the color of the hood that matters its what under the hood-but many here will never acknowledge this.
If the op opts for a zero turn a huge mistake will be made, that is of course if only one machine can be had and that my friends is the cold hard truth.

'Grasshopper' look past the name for true quality-get it BlackBart-what was the name of that tv series ????? every now and again I come up with an original, everyone here HAS to admit that this is cool.....

Robert the Cadet tractors that I looked at were the cheapest thing I ever saw.
I tried to raise the hood and instead of coming up it just twisted .

I was at a TSC store what planet were you on that they build these quality Cadets.
I have a friend that is the manager at a TSC and he said they have nothing but problems with the CC he said it was a big P.O.S. and that is from a guy that makes his living selling them.

When you speak of quality are you saying that they use top grade plastic for the wheel bearings.:laughing:

I see the comment by Scag like the warning on my prescription pain pills they have a warning list as long as your arm but I don't have any of them.

They must put the warning on them because someone may have a side effect same with Scag while millions can operate a ZT with no problem there may be a person like you out their that just can't properly operate it, Hence the warning.

Only problem I ever had with turf damage has been in early spring if I mow with my tractor I must make a big pear shaped turn or the front tires will roll the sod while turning.

No such issues with the ZT if it is operated properly. It is only when someone that don't know how to operate it properly that a turf problem is possible.

Robert I think most zt users are tired of arguing with you that why no one else is responding.
Do us all a favor and stop beating this dead horse and let people make up their own mind. If they feel they made a mistake they can always sell and buy something else.

BlackBart, please stop the nonsense; TSC does not handle the Cub 2000 series, perhaps when you took a look it was still too soon after finishing mowing with your Grasshopper zt and your mind had not clear up yet from bouncing around on that zippidy doo dah....a 1 can look alot like a 2 after all.

Are your shorts all in a twist because you have confirmed that your mega dollar Grasshopper can't tow squat? :laughing:

robert said:

BlackBart, please stop the nonsense; TSC does not handle the Cub 2000 series, perhaps when you took a look it was still too soon after finishing mowing with your Grasshopper zt and your mind had not clear up yet from bouncing around on that zippidy doo dah....a 1 can look alot like a 2 after all.

Are your shorts all in a twist because you have confirmed that your mega dollar Grasshopper can't tow squat? :laughing:

Click to expand...

Robert I already told you my GH will drag you CC off back wards.
I don't know were you live but if you want to make a wager large enough I will load my GH and bring it to your house and while your open differential is doing a peg leg burn out I will drag you off back wards.

Time to put your money where your mouth is and put some $$$$$$$$$$$ on it.

Wow, this has become quite the heated forum here.

A few things to clear up:

1. Right now it is 6 acres of lush yard. I wish it wasn't so lush...maybe I wouldn't have to mow as often

2. I'm not talking about going in the livestock business. Just a few animals. 2 pigs take no room at all, a 20' x 20' pen with a little homemade shelter/cover gets the job done no problem. Buy 'em in April, sell 'em at the fair in July...I'm not worried here. You are right cattle are more difficult and typically take two years, but still one or two cattle are fine on less than an acre. You don't want them running around anyway, they get too much muscle that way. I guess my point is, we have plenty of land for what we plan on doing. My wife grew up farming and we have her whole family advising us on this little endeavor. If it ever gets too much, we just don't buy animals that year. I think it will be fun...and less mowing


Still haven't made a decision yet...weighing lots of options...but I am enjoying the suggestions!

Robert you keep telling me what my Grasshopper can not do so I would like to know more about your vast experience with one.

I'm on my second one been mowing with a GH for more than 25 years.

Please tell us how many years experience do you have using a Grasshopper

I would add that if I could afford a Grasshopper, I think I would go that route. My problem is that for my $5,000 budget, they all have unbelievable hours on them (like well over 1,000). At least the ones I've seen for sale.

Bart - If you had $5,000 and wanted a 60" deck, would you buy a new JD Z465 or a Grasshopper (not sure on models) with 1,000+ hours?

jmac1 said:

I would add that if I could afford a Grasshopper, I think I would go that route. My problem is that for my $5,000 budget, they all have unbelievable hours on them (like well over 1,000). At least the ones I've seen for sale.

Bart - If you had $5,000 and wanted a 60" deck, would you buy a new JD Z465 or a Grasshopper (not sure on models) with 1,000+ hours?

Click to expand...

I think this is the first you have mentioned a budget or price mark.
I may have missed it but it definitely rules out a lot of new machines.
I'm still not clear on what you will be mowing the first post was 6 acres then it was 1 or 2 and I'm not sure where you are at now but it sure makes a big difference on what you need.

Mowing 6 acres every week is one hell of a lot of mowing.
One member on this forum recently bought a Grasshopper 728 diesel with 72 inch deck and low hours for $3300.00

Which would be best I can not say because I don't know how rough the lawn is or how much you will be mowing.
I don't know how many small tight areas that you will have only you know these things.
From my experience from owning 3 ZTR mowers and both of my current tractor I can tell you what to expect from them.

25 years ago the Grasshopper with the 72 inch deck was perfect for my lawn it was what most would consider too big but I never liked making a career out of mowing and this allowed me to mow fast and do other things.

Down through the years we added another garage a greenhouse and several flower gardens.
This changed things I have several places that the 12 foot long grasshopper won't turn in so I had to do these places with a hand mower.

I bought the JD and it has a 48 inch wheelbase and a 54 inch deck I can mow my lawn and not use a hand mower so it is much faster than the Grasshopper.

The 12 foot long grasshopper rides better than the short wheelbase JD Z445 in fact it rides better than a tractor will and if you have room to turn within the 12 foot length it will trim around a small tree just as well as a short wheelbase like my Z445, They both are zero turn but with the GH you still need 12 feet to turn it.

If you look at my mowers you will see I have a JD 430 diesel this is considered by many as the best garden tractor ever built but I have not had the deck under it in 25 years.

Mowing with this thing is just SOooooooo yesterday the only way I would use it to mow is everything else would not run.

I have a heated cab on it and it is great for blowing snow that is why I keep it around.

I think if I was thinking about mowing 6 acres and there was no small tight spots and I was limited to a $5000.00 budget I would buy a good running old tractor for $500.00 just for towing spreader or sprayer. You can do those things with a GH but a small tractor would be handy then shop for a nice low hours diesel commercial mower like the GH.

One thing that never seems to come up if you have any bushes or low hanging tree limbs ONLY the front deck can mow under them tractor can't.
This saves going back around and mowing with a hand mower.

Things like that people who have never owned one overlook.

Well you two are certainly being quite throrough with you opinions. I for one apreciate all of the information and the banter.
I have seen the damage robert refers to and the speed of a high dollar ZTR cannot be disputed.
I think the amount of damage is ditectly related to the weight and power of the mower and a function of the type of turf and type of soil. It's my experience that moisture plays a key role as well.
The cost involved with a compact tractor should not be minmized. Spending 500$ is inviting a huge investment of time,, making repairs and finding parts. Please don't think you can find something substantial for that minmal investment. Although it's not beyond the realm of possibility, its much more likely you will wind up underwriting a un wanted restoration then procuring a vauble tool.
This being the truth it only underscores the importance of making an educated purchase.
It's clear to me that is what jmac1 is trying to do.
If you leaning towards a CT be advised: Have a clear understanding of exactly what you need and want before you even start to shop. Buying the wrong tractor is a big financial boo boo.

jmac1 said:

I would add that if I could afford a Grasshopper, I think I would go that route. My problem is that for my $5,000 budget, they all have unbelievable hours on them (like well over 1,000). At least the ones I've seen for sale.

Bart - If you had $5,000 and wanted a 60" deck, would you buy a new JD Z465 or a Grasshopper (not sure on models) with 1,000+ hours?

Click to expand...

At a dealer in Avilla, Ind., I was looking at two GrassHopper 725's.
One had powerfold deck, with 370 hours, 2002 model.
One had a vacuum collection system, with 410 hours, 2001 model.
They told me $6,000.00 for either one.

This dealer has a large inventory of GrassHopper mowers.

Deals can be found, they are out there.






(ETA model years)

Black Bart said:

Down through the years we added another garage a greenhouse and several flower gardens.
This changed things I have several places that the 12 foot long grasshopper won't turn in so I had to do these places with a hand mower.

Click to expand...

I have seen in other posts where you say your 725 mower is 12' long.
Mine is only about 9 foot long with the 61" deck.

What makes your's 3 foot longer ?

The JD is FASTER than the Grasshopper :confused3:

Parkmower, please do everyone who is considering the purchase of a zt the favor of commenting on Scag's position that the zt design is inherently prone to turf damage and Briggs position that the zt application is the most hostile to any engine. Then, if you would be so kind, please comment on the towing capacity and the weight limits of the unitized drives, they are all about the same..

Then lets talk about internal drive temps on unitized drives with very small amounts of lube and differential drives with six or so quarts of lube, about the maint involved with those zt's that have motors and a pump with all the plumbing, about the many zero turns that don't even use a cooling fan on the drives, about operational noise, which engines stay cleaner from dust and debris, which design can tow more; in general lets talk about the things that really matter....for the average homeowner that is.

I am citing facts-direct from manufacturers and my own experience- you and a few others here are posting on pure emotion and this is where you are doing a huge disservice to all that are following this thread.

robert said:

Parkmower, please do everyone who is considering the purchase of a zt the favor of commenting on Scag's position that the zt design is inherently prone to turf damage and Briggs position that the zt application is the most hostile to any engine. Then, if you would be so kind, please comment on the towing capacity and the weight limits of the unitized drives, they are all about the same..

Then lets talk about internal drive temps on unitized drives with very small amounts of lube and differential drives with six or so quarts of lube, about the maint involved with those zt's that have motors and a pump with all the plumbing, about the many zero turns that don't even use a cooling fan on the drives, about operational noise, which engines stay cleaner from dust and debris, which design can tow more; in general lets talk about the things that really matter....for the average homeowner that is.

I am citing facts-direct from manufacturers and my own experience- you and a few others here are posting on pure emotion and this is where you are doing a huge disservice to all that are following this thread.

Click to expand...

I'm done with you

jmac1 said:

Wow, this has become quite the heated forum here.



2. I'm not talking about going in the livestock business. Just a few animals. 2 pigs take no room at all, a 20' x 20' pen with a little homemade shelter/cover gets the job done no problem. Buy 'em in April, sell 'em at the fair in July...I'm not worried here. You are right cattle are more difficult and typically take two years, but still one or two cattle are fine on less than an acre. You don't want them running around anyway, they get too much muscle that way. I guess my point is, we have plenty of land for what we plan on doing. My wife grew up farming and we have her whole family advising us on this little endeavor. If it ever gets too much, we just don't buy animals that year. I think it will be fun...and less mowing


Still haven't made a decision yet...weighing lots of options...but I am enjoying the suggestions!

Click to expand...

I hope you good luck on the pigs. The first year I raised them I had very good luck with them, but not the second year. I had a lot of enjoyment doing it.. They would eat just about anything. They would get all my grass clippings and what was left over from my garden and every else's garden I knew. I also would go to a dairy farm and feed them their left over bad milk, they just loved it. Another place I found food for them I would ask a farmer after they would harvest a field of corn if I could pick the left overs which I did. The problem started the second year. The first problem was that I used the same pen over from the first year and we have a wet summer. The pen just turned into a mud pit and I just couldn't do anything for the poor animals. I tryed straw just to dry it up but nothing worked and i put some concrete in just so they could get out of the mud. The only dry place for the was inside the hut I made for them. The second problem I had was when the rats came. This was too much and the last of my pig raising. I only thing I hate more then snakes is rats. So when you make your pen make sure it is on good high dry drained land and try to keep all food cleaned up and sealed. Good luck

Sammy the Red said:

I have seen in other posts where you say your 725 mower is 12' long.
Mine is only about 9 foot long with the 61" deck.

What makes your's 3 foot longer ?

Click to expand...

Do you have the 725K

Parkmower, exactly what I expected from you, facts sure can be annoying can't they? :laughing:

Black Bart said:

Do you have the 725K

Click to expand...

I have the 727K.

Sammy the Red said:

I have the 727K.

Click to expand...

I thought you did mine has the water cooled kubota it is much longer also have a 72" deck it is bigger both in length and width.
I also have the collection system and the metal box hangs out behind the rear wheels.

Takes 12 feet to turn it around.
It is awesome mower as long as you don't have an area like I have were it just won't fit but if I drive my little 180 JD tractor in I have to back it out then still need to mow with a hand mower what the tractor didn't get.
I now have so many small spots that a tractor can't get and the GH is too big to get in their that the size of my Z445 is the best choice for my lawn.

What I hope that all who are thinking of purchasing a zt have learned from this thread:

A major maker of zero turn mowers states,on their website, that the design is prone to turf damage unless a very deliberate turning process is used.
A very major maker of engines for the industry state, on their website, that the zero turn application is very hostile to the engine because, unlike the tractor (this is also mentioned by this giant of a manufacturer) which adds-by design- significant protection from abrasive/heat increasing debris.
A major maker of pricey zero turns, Grasshopper, responded to an email from me in which I inquired as to the towing capacity of their excellent mowers-the answer was damage to the drive was a concern if any owner towed a weight which was greater than what any owner -could move by hand (by the way the most 'vocal' advocate of this brand now admitts that using a JD lawn/garden tractor is FASTER on his average homeowner sized yard)

The lawn or garden tractor is by far, the best choice for ANY homeowner. The machine is safer, more comfortable, will do more, and will be longer lived than a similar quality zero turn-these statements cannot be intelligently refuted.

As to point of purchase remember this; only one maker-John Deere, offers a thirty day return on the purchase of a tractor, confirm that the product which you are interested in is included. As for the big box stores, the evil big box stores, they also offer a thirty day return period, or at least they do in my area, you perhaps should keep this in mind OR ask your local power equipment dealer if they will give you an extended demo or a purchase with return privledges.

Lastly remember that all of the most vocal defenders of the homeowner zero turn purchase have steadfastly refused to comment on what Scag and Briggs and Stratton post on their own website regarding info relative to this thread choosing instead to assign these thoughts to me.

In the end a zero turn will make zero sense-it did for me and it will for you.

reynoldston said:

I hope you good luck on the pigs. The first year I raised them I had very good luck with them, but not the second year. I had a lot of enjoyment doing it.. They would eat just about anything. They would get all my grass clippings and what was left over from my garden and every else's garden I knew. I also would go to a dairy farm and feed them their left over bad milk, they just loved it. Another place I found food for them I would ask a farmer after they would harvest a field of corn if I could pick the left overs which I did. The problem started the second year. The first problem was that I used the same pen over from the first year and we have a wet summer. The pen just turned into a mud pit and I just couldn't do anything for the poor animals. I tryed straw just to dry it up but nothing worked and i put some concrete in just so they could get out of the mud. The only dry place for the was inside the hut I made for them. The second problem I had was when the rats came. This was too much and the last of my pig raising. I only thing I hate more then snakes is rats. So when you make your pen make sure it is on good high dry drained land and try to keep all food cleaned up and sealed. Good luck

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips. My wife pointed out the same things right away (I admit I didn't see it). There is a low spot on the property where I said we should put the animals, and see nixed that right away.

As for the rats...I'll pray they stay away.

Thanks for the tips!

robert said:

What I hope that all who are thinking of purchasing a zt have learned from this thread:

A major maker of zero turn mowers states,on their website, that the design is prone to turf damage unless a very deliberate turning process is used.
A very major maker of engines for the industry state, on their website, that the zero turn application is very hostile to the engine because, unlike the tractor (this is also mentioned by this giant of a manufacturer) which adds-by design- significant protection from abrasive/heat increasing debris.
A major maker of pricey zero turns, Grasshopper, responded to an email from me in which I inquired as to the towing capacity of their excellent mowers-the answer was damage to the drive was a concern if any owner towed a weight which was greater than what any owner -could move by hand (by the way the most 'vocal' advocate of this brand now admitts that using a JD lawn/garden tractor is FASTER on his average homeowner sized yard)

The lawn or garden tractor is by far, the best choice for ANY homeowner. The machine is safer, more comfortable, will do more, and will be longer lived than a similar quality zero turn-these statements cannot be intelligently refuted.

As to point of purchase remember this; only one maker-John Deere, offers a thirty day return on the purchase of a tractor, confirm that the product which you are interested in is included. As for the big box stores, the evil big box stores, they also offer a thirty day return period, or at least they do in my area, you perhaps should keep this in mind OR ask your local power equipment dealer if they will give you an extended demo or a purchase with return privledges.

Lastly remember that all of the most vocal defenders of the homeowner zero turn purchase have steadfastly refused to comment on what Scag and Briggs and Stratton post on their own website regarding info relative to this thread choosing instead to assign these thoughts to me.

In the end a zero turn will make zero sense-it did for me and it will for you.

Click to expand...

Robert,

I appreciate the differing viewpoints as it gives me good things to consider. I agree that a GT would probably be faster on most small yards, but on 6 acres???? I would think I want the fastest thing I could get and ZT's look like they fly. I've also been told that on damp mornings, ZT's can cut the grass without leaving streaks where more front-heavy tractors would smash down that front grass and you'd have to go slower.

I am still considering that JD X485 that my buddy has, but am definitely leaning towards the ZT. Every commercial mowing place seems to favor the ZT's, and obviously they want to get their job done ASAP. Time=money...especially to them.

Good luck with the decision, it seems that something with, or something that could accept a bucket would be of great use to you :wink:

jmac1 said:

Robert,


... definitely leaning towards the ZT. Every commercial mowing place seems to favor the ZT's, and obviously they want to get their job done ASAP. Time=money...especially to them.

Click to expand...

You will LOVE it ... and it is easy to 'learn' the proper way to operate.... enjoy mowing most of the rest of us do... :smile:KennyV

Black Bart said:

I thought you did mine has the water cooled kubota it is much longer also have a 72" deck it is bigger both in length and width.
I also have the collection system and the metal box hangs out behind the rear wheels.

Click to expand...

I knew your deck added a few inch's, but I did not know you had the collection box on the back. My nephew has that on his Z-turn. When I have used his mower, the box seems to get in the way when I make turns, can't swing around as easy as one without a box.

Sammy the Red said:

I knew your deck added a few inch's, but I did not know you had the collection box on the back. My nephew has that on his Z-turn. When I have used his mower, the box seems to get in the way when I make turns, can't swing around as easy as one without a box.

Click to expand...

Yes the box adds some length but I really like the way my lawn looks when I pick up the clippings.
If I ever do away with the Greenhouse I will probably sell the mid-mount JD and buy a new GH I have 65 trees and a front mount can be run in under the low hanging limbs farther than a mid mount.
I used my GH for 20 years and did NO maintenance at all it is 100 percent like it came from the factory.
Still has the same filters on the hydro pumps that came on it.

It still has the same air filter I removed it a couple times and blew it out with compressed air was nothing but a little dust so it is ALL ORIGINAL.

I don't have the dust that Robert speaks of that would come from dry dirt my lawn is comprised of lush grass not dirt.

Perhaps he needs to do as I did and install a automated underground sprinkler system that way you mow grass not dirt.

After 20 years the Kubota starts instantly burns NO oil runs just like it did when it was new.
All I ever bought for it was gas and oil for changes.

When I built one of our big raised flower gardens I bought several truck loads of potting soil I parked the truck in the drive stacked the bags up on the deck of the GH and hauled them across the lawn.:biggrin:

Sure beat carrying them.
I'm going to sell my ole GH but I may have another one some day they are dam tuff machine.

As far as the rats go just make sure all stored food is sealed in metal containers and keep it as clean as possible where they eat. Pigs are very sloppy eaters. I got the rats when I stored corn.

KennyV, too bad that all he will be able to do is mow, and really not all that fast when he 'learns' the proper way because it will no longer really be a zero turn anymore will it?

Will you perhaps care to comment on what Scag and Briggs say about the zero turn?

This place is full of people who have developed a terminal case of 'factophobia'.

robert said:

KennyV, too bad that all he will be able to do is mow, and really not all that fast when he 'learns' the proper way because it will no longer really be a zero turn anymore will it?

Will you perhaps care to comment on what Scag and Briggs say about the zero turn?

This place is full of people who have developed a terminal case of 'factophobia'.

Click to expand...

Robert,
I try to respect everyones opinion, I like GT's too and have been satisfied with mine, but man you need to let this go. This really disrupts the OP's thread which isn't fair or polite.

jenkinsph said:

Robert,
I try to respect everyones opinion, I like GT's too and have been satisfied with mine, but man you need to let this go. This really disrupts the OP's thread which isn't fair or polite.

Click to expand...

I agree......... Let us move on. :smile:

Dave LaLena shows off coolest snow plow mower ever made! - YouTube


Like Robert said a ZTR can not pull or push http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_H98klA0aA

Grasshopper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5GAQjvwFsg&feature=related

You must have a tractor to move snow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3ZC3rdJZc

The hydro drive is fragile don't abuse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9H7uIkdjeM

Hasn't the op stated that he appreciates the banter and information-will the distortion of the facts not cease?

The op requested facts lets provide what was requested, please comment on what Briggs and Scag say about the inherent design of the zero turn and since all refuse to comment on towing weights this also will be provided by me: Hustler states that their commercial mowers are able to tow a 400lb limit INCLUDING the weight of the operator-Grasshopper stated to me that their machines are rated for a limit that can be moved by HAND. I provided the limit for my rotten Exmark, for my great Cub-who is providing useful info: me or you?

This is the type of info the op was looking for, BlackBart, Parkmower, Tindal et al, why did not YOU provide this for the op?-WHO is being impolite and unfair?

robert said:

...-WHO is being impolite and unfair?

Click to expand...

WHO is just being argumentative?...

There comes a point when it just sounds like "sour grapes" .... :smile:KennyV

KennyV, have you ever posted anything factual here?

Just ask Robert , he read it and will tell you where he read it , so it must be true!

Robert I don't think I have heard such a repetitive load of bs in years. I mowed with a snapper zrider 13hp 33 inch deck for 15 years. I used it all year long to move my golf cart trailer with the 800 pound golf cart on it more times that I can count, I use it much like several others here in that if I can use it to carrry something up my slope from the car to the back yard I do. It has a joystick which is less accurate to steer with than the dual levers but is great for low branches. It has eaton 778 hydos that have never needed service. I just replaced it with a country clipper 20hp 38 inch deck, complete with joystick and easily serviced fabricated deck. this is definitly residentual quality stuff but if the new one holds us as well as the snapper... it may be the last one I buy. And short of mowing fields... I would only buy a ztr. With the amount of property this thread is about I would probably eventually look for a small compact tractor(after the ztr purchase). Robert your opinions are just that yours I respect them but I dont share them because I have 15 years of experience with far different results. I tried 3 gt's before I switched to zt's all would dig in on turns and mess up my lawn, it took me less than 5 min to learn to use my snapper and it never does that. I also have a cyclone rake I pull twice a year, according to cylone rake the snapper was under powered to pull it, it pulled it great! I expect the country clipper to do even better. By the way whoever was willing to put money where his mouth is on pulling you cc backwards I would like some of that action and I would put it on the zt. All it takes to mow with a zt is to understand some fundamental physics involved... the inside wheel has to turn slower than the outside wheel when turning, if you understand that... you are trained.

Robert,
I have not read the entire thread, but I have read enough to defend KennyV - If you had been here (on this forum) long, You would know that KennyV has been one of the most informative and helpful people on the forum. :thumbsup:
Different people have had and will have different experiences with different equipment in different circumstances.
I don't believe any one person knows it all !

Hmm, sounds like someone thinks he does:confused2: