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Briggs& Stratton engine will not turn over

Jun 27, 2024#1

J

JimP2014

In the last two weeks I've done many things, but in the meantime the current problem is this definitely getting spark to the spark plug after spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake while turning the key. The only thing that happens is backfire through the carburetor or popping the engine refuses to start. The only thing I can think of is the spark plug is definitely working, so I'm wondering if there's some kill switch that allows for the flywheel to rotate where it seems everything will start and engage flywheel and the engine. But at the very last second a kill switch shuts off everything and prevents it from starting. So in other words, I'm looking at carburetor problem but maybe I should be looking for some kill switch that's shorting out everything. It's as if all systems are go but at the last second this kill switch is preventing the engine from starting I wonder if anyone is familiar with this situation before. Also, the fuel solenoid definitely clicks when you turn the key but the carburetor cleaner going into the intake. Even if there's a kill switch situation on going, I would think the engine would start up for a couple seconds. I don't think a kill switch, even if active could prevent the engine from starting for at least a second or two, but that's what it seems like is happening.

Jim

Jun 27, 2024#2

J

JimP2014

I was hoping to delete this post but I have no clue how to. In any case, I just bought a spark plug tester and I'm not positive if I'm getting spark to the plug. However, testing in a different way shows there's spark to the spark plug, so I got to figure this out is a spark plug getting spark when the spark plug is inside the engine. And like I said, I don't know how to delete my original post

Jun 27, 2024#3

J

Joed756

Do you still have a problem or not?

Jun 27, 2024#4

J

JimP2014

The problem is, for whatever reason the engine does not turn over and I thought I had good spark from the spark plug. So then I'm thinking if that's the case then something to do with the carburetor or then I was thinking somehow the kill switch is doing something to prevent the engine from turning over. However, I just used a spark plug tester and from what I can tell there's no spark going to the spark plug so there's still definitely a problem and before that the problem was the engine was running at high speed and then low speed and high speed. It was just impossible for it to idle. I can say I've looked over many things and I'm still thinking about the safety mechanisms. But putting that aside the ignition coil is something I looked at. I took off the flywheel. The flywheel key looked good but I replaced it anyways. The valves have the right clearance. The push rods are connected to the rocker arms. The fuel solenoid definitely works, but even if it didn't spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake for the last few weeks would allow the motor to start up instantly except it was running wild. I did not modify the governor setting. As far as I can tell, the governor setting was correct. The linkage the carburetor seem okay including the little wire, but I guess generally speaking the question is could put a riding mower show all indications of it starting, but then there's a kill switch that prevents the engine from turning over. Meaning everything looks good and it should start but it doesn't because of some kill switch?

Thanks,
Jim

Jun 27, 2024#5

Scrubcadet10

So we know which briggs engine you have, please provide your model information.
It will be stamped on a metal shroud above the plug, or above the muffler or on the valve cover.

Jun 27, 2024#6

J

JimP2014

I did see this message. I'm having trouble resizing the image that I need to provide to you. Be back when I can figure it out

Lt2 000. Model number 917. 28970 this is the best I can do right now

Jun 27, 2024#7

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I did see this message. I'm having trouble resizing the image that I need to provide to you. Be back when I can figure it out

Lt2 000. Model number 917. 28970 this is the best I can do right now

So here's where it's at as of 7:14 p.m. this is like day 15. I was able to flip the ignition coil upside down and produce spark in the spark plug tester and then removing the spark plug tester and starting the engine, it still will not start the flywheel spins there's popping in the intake of the carburetor. Maybe there's a compression issue? I'm not sure on that one. I don't have a leak down tester or any of that other stuff I don't know if there's some other way to test compression other than spitting it manually and it will have one point in the rotation where it's pretty tough to spend the flywheel and that is where the spark plug is still inside the engine. I took a long screwdriver earlier today and I got to the point where the cylinder was at top dead center and then I rotated it further and I was able to press the The screwdriver into the cylinder. It seems like there is no broken connecting. Rod is what I'm trying to say but I'm not positive. It might be leaking oil. This would be bottom part of the short block maybe but it could be from when I removed the valve cover and there's still oil around that area but it doesn't start. Seems like it should even with the carburetor cleaner sprayed into the intake.

JF

Jun 28, 2024#8

J

JimP2014

I apologize to everyone who has viewed these posts because all the information I provided kept changing from my perspective because I couldn't figure out what's going on. But here's what the whole thing comes down to and I'm pretty sure of this. I'm absolutely getting spark if the spark plug using the spark plug tester that is consistent. It is the same for the last 1 and 1/2 days. I never realized the ignition coil had an orientation but it does. But the point is when I turn the key the key does trigger the starter. As long as the riding mower is in park position, I removed the safety switch underneath the seat a couple years ago and it has been fine but I can say the problem right now is I'm definitely getting spark to the spark plug and even with carburetor cleaner sprayed into the intake, the engine refuses to even start for a split second which has never been the case. So the question is, can the electronic fuel solenoid not only defeat regular gas going into the carburetor but can it also defeat carburetor cleaner? This is really the question.

Or any other scenario where you definitely have spark but the engine refuses to turn over. Would this be some sort of safety device or is it simply take a look at what's going on in the carburetor?

Thanks to anyone who can answer this, I appreciate it very much.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#9

ILENGINE

The fuel solenoid only stops fuel flow from the carb bowl into the jets It will not prevent ignition from a fuel that is poured into the intake. Safety switches would prevent spark. So if you have spark that is not the issue. So that leaves compression or lack thereof and spark timing, which could be a flywheel key issue.

And the actually model type and code from the engine would really help us to determine what engine you are attempting to work on.

Jun 28, 2024#10

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
The fuel solenoid only stops fuel flow from the carb bowl into the jets It will not prevent ignition from a fuel that is poured into the intake. Safety switches would prevent spark. So if you have spark that is not the issue. So that leaves compression or lack thereof and spark timing, which could be a flywheel key issue.

And the actually model type and code from the engine would really help us to determine what engine you are attempting to work on.

https://www.partswarehouse.com/31P677-3373-G2-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235041.htm

Thank you very much for your assessment. That makes a lot of sense, especially the part about. Well, if the spark is at the spark plug then you can just rest assure it has nothing to do with all that safety stuff that is key. But beyond that, what you mentioned about compression and the other stuff is what I suppose I need to look at. I can only say that maybe 10 days ago there was an awful banging going on every time there was a rotation of the flywheel and I wonder if eventually that broke something don't know. But again I appreciate your help.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#11

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
https://www.partswarehouse.com/31P677-3373-G2-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235041.htm

Thank you very much for your assessment. That makes a lot of sense, especially the part about. Well, if the spark is at the spark plug then you can just rest assure it has nothing to do with all that safety stuff that is key. But beyond that, what you mentioned about compression and the other stuff is what I suppose I need to look at. I can only say that maybe 10 days ago there was an awful banging going on every time there was a rotation of the flywheel and I wonder if eventually that broke something don't know. But again I appreciate your help.

Jim

The link I provided for that website that is exactly the engine. I have yet to go back outside and take a small picture of what is actually stamped on the riding mower itself. Also, I do have a smaller picture of what's on the valve cover but it's almost impossible to read and it might provide some additional info. But I've been looking over the part numbers and all that from that website and so far all of it's been spot on.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#12

J

JimP2014

The other thing I'm wondering about which I might have mentioned is I removed the flywheel and I replaced the key with a brand new key. It's the exact same key because the first one that was fine. I lost some place in the yard but I just wanted to throw that in just in case, despite what I believe was the correct way to replace the flywheel key that somehow I did something to the flywheel and it has to do with some timing issue. But once I get that compression tester maybe that'll be a good indicator as to what's going on.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#13

ILENGINE

If the flywheel was not properly torqued to spec it could of sheared the new flywheel key.

Jun 28, 2024#14

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
If the flywheel was not properly torqued to spec it could of sheared the new flywheel key.

Okay, thank you very much for that info. I think I'm going to start with your first suggestion about compression. I ordered a compression test kit and it should be available tomorrow and I suppose I could take off the flywheel today but I think I'd rather wait until the compression test is done, but as I recall I know the spec is something like 80 flip lb torque foot pounds that is.

I was more or less wondering if you could put it on correctly. It looks correct, but there's still something wrong somehow. Other than another sheered flywheel key. Actually I misspoke the first one. There was nothing wrong with it. I just lost it in the yard but I'm just wondering if it's lined up with the crankshaft and everything looks good if something still could be wrong even with the proper torque spec

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#15

M

Mark H_NO

Awful banging, that sounds like a clue! You said you replaced the flywheel key, so you should have timing. That leaves spark, fuel, and compression. Make sure the throttle and choke plates are open when you spray starting fluid, that got me. Can you disconnect the spark plug and spin the blade? It ought to bounce back some off the compression. That should give you a rough idea if you have compression. Is it one cylinder? You get compression every other rev for a 4 stroke single.

I'm a new guy, who has fixed stuff forever, not a professional mechanic.(not that anyone would think I was)

Jun 28, 2024#16

ILENGINE

Mark H_NO said:
Awful banging, that sounds like a clue! You said you replaced the flywheel key, so you should have timing. That leaves spark, fuel, and compression. Make sure the throttle and choke plates are open when you spray starting fluid, that got me. Can you disconnect the spark plug and spin the blade? It ought to bounce back some off the compression. That should give you a rough idea if you have compression. Is it one cylinder? You get compression every other rev for a 4 stroke single.

I'm a new guy, who has fixed stuff forever, not a professional mechanic.(not that anyone would think I was)

The banging could be a clue. Could be something as simple as the motor mounts bolts being loose, to total engine destruction.

Jun 28, 2024#17

J

JimP2014

I can't say that the motor mounts are loose but I'm not going to mess with those until I at least get basic rotation. That's what I'm thinking as far as the blade goes. I'll keep that in mind, but technically speaking, the blades should not rotate since the PTO is not engaged, but I'll reread what you wrote. Maybe you're saying something slightly different.

Thanks for this additional feedback.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#18

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I can't say that the motor mounts are loose but I'm not going to mess with those until I at least get basic rotation. That's what I'm thinking as far as the blade goes. I'll keep that in mind, but technically speaking, the blades should not rotate since the PTO is not engaged, but I'll reread what you wrote. Maybe you're saying something slightly different.

Thanks for this additional feedback.

Jim

But to answer your other question, it's a sing le cylinder OHV intek engine 19 and 1/2 horsepower and I think it's called the gold edition.

Jun 28, 2024#19

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I can't say that the motor mounts are loose but I'm not going to mess with those until I at least get basic rotation. That's what I'm thinking as far as the blade goes. I'll keep that in mind, but technically speaking, the blades should not rotate since the PTO is not engaged, but I'll reread what you wrote. Maybe you're saying something slightly different.

Thanks for this additional feedback.

Jim

Mark, I also reread the part about what you're talking about the blades and that's good to know. I think I'm just going to wait for the compression tester come if that's a simple test you are suggesting and maybe later tonight when it's cooler, I'll try that.

Jun 28, 2024#20

M

Mark H_NO

What I said works fine for a single engine mower. With a PTO involved, you're over my head. If you're getting a compression tester, that's the best test, I'd wait on that.

Jun 28, 2024#21

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
What I said works fine for a single engine mower. With a PTO involved, you're over my head. If you're getting a compression tester, that's the best test, I'd wait on that.

Okay Mark I see what you mean. Yeah this is a mower deck.

Jun 28, 2024#22

M

Mark H_NO

Single cylinder engine.

Jun 28, 2024#23

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
Single cylinder engine.

Yes Mark it is a single cylinder engine but one thing that I did find when looking at various videos and I think for just Briggs& Stratton engines is that with the valve cover off? If you look at the rocker arm where it makes contact, basically with a tap pet and the valve spring. In other words, on that side, what happens or what's supposed to happen is that as that rocker arm moves away from the engine not towards it, but away from it. There's a little area at the very top of that motion. Someone referred to it as a bump but what happens is almost at the top. It retracts back in towards the engine slightly and then goes back up and the reason I mention it is I see that motion with the intake valve which is on the bottom for this Briggs& Stratton but the exhaust valve. It doesn't have that little bump where the motion is generally out, but for a split second it goes back only to continue out. I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone but the exhaust valve which is on top does not have that motion.

Jim

Jun 28, 2024#24

dougand3

I think you're describing compression release. On most LT/GT and bigger engines, the camshaft has an arm that bumps the valve at low RPMs. This allows the crankshaft to spin faster & start/run. Cam arm slings out of the way at higher RPMs for full compression.

Jun 28, 2024#25

J

JimP2014

dougand3 said:
I think you're describing compression release. On most LT/GT and bigger engines, the camshaft has an arm that bumps the valve at low RPMs. This allows the crankshaft to spin faster & start/run. Cam arm slings out of the way at higher RPMs for full compression.

Ironically I just watched that video again and it seems like the fellow is only paying attention to the intake valve and then he concluded because of that bump that the camshaft is okay and then he was able to put it back together and get it going

Jun 29, 2024#26

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Ironically I just watched that video again and it seems like the fellow is only paying attention to the intake valve and then he concluded because of that bump that the camshaft is okay and then he was able to put it back together and get it going

Jun 29, 2024#27

J

JimP2014

I was hoping to upload an image of the compression tester gauge but the image is too large anyways, so it's a cold engine. I opened up the throttle choke and all that to get a lot of air in. I then came up with 75 lb PSI and I tried a few more times and it did not get any higher. I did not add oil into the spark plug hole. I'm wondering if 75 PSI for a 19 and 1/2 horsepower OHV engine. It's an intek engine is what it should be. Maybe it should be 110 PSI. This I don't know so I wonder what any thinks about this?
Thanks,
Jim

Jun 29, 2024#28

J

JimP2014

Jun 29, 2024#29

J

JimP2014

I just happen to watch a video of an 18.5 horsepower OHV engine model 31 and the guys getting 125 psi. I can only say it seemed like none of the four adapters in the kit fit correctly into the spark plug hole. So I just ran the hose with the fitting and the gauge on the other end. I'm not sure if I lost any compression in the test but to say it in a different way. There was probably eight pieces inside the compression kit and I used only two of them and came up with 75 PSI.

Jim

Jun 29, 2024#30

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I just happen to watch a video of an 18.5 horsepower OHV engine model 31 and the guys getting 125 psi. I can only say it seemed like none of the four adapters in the kit fit correctly into the spark plug hole. So I just ran the hose with the fitting and the gauge on the other end. I'm not sure if I lost any compression in the test but to say it in a different way. There was probably eight pieces inside the compression kit and I used only two of them and came up with 75 PSI.

Jim

So I use the compression tester one more time. I found out that none of those adapters fit into the spark plug hole but they supplied basically a pipe with like a cone-shaped rubber boot on the end and I use that and as it turns out I got up to about 85 psi. I most likely bought junk where it doesn't have a adapter that fits inside a spark plug hole

Jun 29, 2024#31

M

Mark H_NO

Hopefully someone who knows that engine will speak up. If there is a compression release, as dougand3 was saying earlier, you will see a lower number on the compression test. I was working on a briggs engine that showed under 60lbs on the compression test, due to a compression release. I was told that's typical for that motor. It runs great.

Jun 29, 2024#32

M

Mark H_NO

How the compression release works.

Jun 29, 2024#33

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
Hopefully someone who knows that engine will speak up. If there is a compression release, as dougand3 was saying earlier, you will see a lower number on the compression test. I was working on a briggs engine that showed under 60lbs on the compression test, due to a compression release. I was told that's typical for that motor. It runs great.

Mark Mark, it's been tough to follow all that is happening two or 3 weeks but it went from starting up instantly but with a constant banging noise to the flywheel turning perfectly but no start even with starting fluid which has never happened before with this engine and that's where it's at. So having said that, compression is probably 85 PSI or more by probably a little but it just spins. The flywheel just spins and nothing happens. This is not typical for this engine because normally it would just start up instantly but make an awful banging noise every revolution it seemed.

Thanks for that video also.

Jim

Jun 29, 2024#34

J

JimP2014

And I should point out before the constant banging. This engine was unbelievable. This thing could fly around the yard. It was an amazing machine and then it just broke.

Jun 29, 2024#35

M

Mark H_NO

A ways back you were talking about checking the flywheel key. I'd recheck that if you haven't. It doesn't take much for that to keep it from firing. I'm also concerned about the banging noise. As someone else said, that could be motor mounts, or a dead engine.

Jun 29, 2024#36

J

JimP2014

Okay definitely the motor mounts need to be fixed but suppose I have a dead engine I would think. And I'm not a mechanic that if you have compression you you passed that hurdle. If the push rods are okay, you pass that hurdle. If the rocker arms are okay that's good. I'm trying to figure out that if you could have a dead engine what would I be looking for? The Piston seems to work correctly with a screwdriver following the travel of the Piston, so I don't know what that thing would be that could cause a dead engine. Maybe you're just passing on with someone else said but I suppose I could take off the flywheel and I have a bunch of extra keys and start over on that can't hurt.
Jim

Jun 29, 2024#37

J

JimP2014

I just read in some other form. This sounds kind of like what's going on with my riding mower.

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/outdoor-gasoline-electric-powered-equipment-small-engines/352247-briggs-stratton-wont-start-but-has-spark.html

Except he finds out there's a bent push rod or a broken push rod and then everything's fine. I have no broken push rod and the push rods are perfect.

So I might just take off the flywheel pretend it's broken and put a new flywheel key in and try again for timing issue

Jim

Jun 29, 2024#38

M

Mark H_NO

The engine needs 4 things to run. Fuel/air, compression, spark, and timing. I would check the key, but you can see if it's sheared, no need to replace if it's not. Have you tried replacing the spark plug? Using a spark tester tests everything but the plug. If you're spraying something for starting, open the choke and throttle when you spray to make sure it gets in. That bit me recently. It sounds like you've got compression, if it has compression release.

Jun 29, 2024#39

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
The engine needs 4 things to run. Fuel/air, compression, spark, and timing. I would check the key, but you can see if it's sheared, no need to replace if it's not. Have you tried replacing the spark plug? Using a spark tester tests everything but the plug. If you're spraying something for starting, open the choke and throttle when you spray to make sure it gets in. That bit me recently. It sounds like you've got compression, if it has compression release.

So as far as the spark plug goes, I have a spark plug tester. So if I test a spark plug and I see the light inside the spark plug tester, I'm assuming that the spark plug's okay and so that is done but maybe not. Maybe there's some weird thing going on that I can't figure out. Okay, as far as spraying carburetor fluid into the intake I can see the butterfly for the choke completely perfect to get maximum spray in there so that's taken care of. It's just very puzzling. I appreciate your suggestions. I think I've done everything possible. The only thing I was thinking about recently is taking the fuel solenoid apart snipping off the tip of it putting it back in and using this on off valve. I got on the fuel line and just get rid of the whole electronic fuel in a solenoid stuff completely. That's the only thing I could think of, but apparently if I'm spraying carburetor cleaner, you don't even need to worry about the electronic fuel solenoid. It's very puzzling

Jun 29, 2024#40

ILENGINE

If you are using one of those LED blink spark testers they will give false positives. So if the plug has an internal short will still blink the light but won't actually create spark at the plug

Jun 29, 2024#41

M

Mark H_NO

If you're using an inline spark tester, it does not test the plug. Joed said
"Keep in mind, the spark tester will tell you the whole ignition system is good or bad EXCEPT the spark plug."

The coil fires a very high voltage, which can light the tester, even if it's not grounded. Try a new plug.

Jun 29, 2024#42

J

JimP2014

The only thing I mentioned that I failed to mention is maybe 10 days ago the fan that sits on top of the flywheel which is a piece of plastic. Basically those fins started breaking off and I thought that was strange but that must indicate something. It was in a test environment. Let's say no lawn cutting involved and they just broke off. I don't know what that means.

Jim

Jun 29, 2024#43

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
If you are using one of those LED blink spark testers they will give false positives. So if the plug has an internal short will still blink the light but won't actually create spark at the plug

So I have three brand new plugs and maybe I only swapped out two of them back and forth. They all light up, maybe even the third one but I haven't actually tested that one. It's still in the box it it meaning the spark plug tester looks like it has some metal coils inside a clear test tube and it looks like there's a real spark I don't know about. I think you mentioned digital L engine

Jun 29, 2024#44

J

JimP2014

Jun 29, 2024#45

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69076

This is what I bought on June 26th

Jun 29, 2024#46

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I completely forgot to mention I took the actual spark plug. Took it out of the spark plug hole. Attached it to the wire from the ignition coil and I touched the exhaust pipe. Just the tip and there was definitely spark and I figured that was a useless test. So I bought a spark plug tester

Jun 29, 2024#47

M

Mark H_NO

That looks like a normal spark tester. What you described is the definitive test for a plug. Sounds like you should have spark. Did you check that flywheel key?

Jun 29, 2024#48

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
That looks like a normal spark tester. What you described is the definitive test for a plug. Sounds like you should have spark. Did you check that flywheel key?

Mark, I'm sorry I am not going back out. I should have mentioned that I'm going to start on that tomorrow, but since you brought it up I wonder because I don't use a flywheel puller and I had like a metal bar underneath the flywheel while I was tightening it if I broke something underneath the flywheel. So you have that coil and then you know who knows what I could have done so I use the pry bar you know obviously to keep the flywheel in one position while I tighten up the flywheel nut but the alignment was perfect so I'm going to try that out tomorrow and vaguely. Remember years ago I did nothing more than and put a flywheel back even though I really did nothing and it started up

Jim

Jun 29, 2024#49

ILENGINE

Any of the testers that don't jump an actual gap will give false positives. The grounded spark plug can be more reliable than blink testers but can cause issues sometimes were they will spark outside the engine but not spark under compression.

I tend to use these for cases were I am working on an engine that maybe loosing spark due to high related damage to the coils

or for quick check were spark maybe questionable

But both will give false positives.

But use the Briggs tester or HEI for serious testing.

Jun 29, 2024#50

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
Mark, I'm sorry I am not going back out. I should have mentioned that I'm going to start on that tomorrow, but since you brought it up I wonder because I don't use a flywheel puller and I had like a metal bar underneath the flywheel while I was tightening it if I broke something underneath the flywheel. So you have that coil and then you know who knows what I could have done so I use the pry bar you know obviously to keep the flywheel in one position while I tighten up the flywheel nut but the alignment was perfect so I'm going to try that out tomorrow and vaguely. Remember years ago I did nothing more than and put a flywheel back even though I really did nothing and it started up

Jim

The stator coil and the flywheel magnets for the charging system are under or in the flywheel. If you broke those loose could of been the loud noise that you were describing when turning the flywheel.

Jun 29, 2024#51

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Any of the testers that don't jump an actual gap will give false positives. The grounded spark plug can be more reliable than blink testers but can cause issues sometimes were they will spark outside the engine but not spark under compression.

I tend to use these for cases were I am working on an engine that maybe loosing spark due to high related damage to the coils

View attachment 69077or for quick check were spark maybe questionable View attachment 69079
But both will give false positives.

But use the Briggs tester or HEI for serious testing.

View attachment 69078

View attachment 69081
.

I see a lot of information here and I appreciate it. I will check all this out tomorrow.

Jun 29, 2024#52

J

JimP2014

So I've been reading about some of the symptoms of a cracked cylinder wall and they mention white smoke coming from the exhaust that has happened. Say we could go. Also the the exhaust pipe was reading about 850° f after say 20 or 30 seconds I replaced the head gasket but the strange thing is if I do have a cracked cylinder wall which could explain the no start then how does that jive with a compression of 85 psi? Another way to say it is if I have 85 PSI for compression could I still have a cracked cylinder wall inside this? Briggs 19.5 horsepower OHV engine?

Jun 30, 2024#53

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
So I've been reading about some of the symptoms of a cracked cylinder wall and they mention white smoke coming from the exhaust that has happened. Say we could go. Also the the exhaust pipe was reading about 850° f after say 20 or 30 seconds I replaced the head gasket but the strange thing is if I do have a cracked cylinder wall which could explain the no start then how does that jive with a compression of 85 psi? Another way to say it is if I have 85 PSI for compression could I still have a cracked cylinder wall inside this? Briggs 19.5 horsepower OHV engine?

Alright Jim so down. You are starting to talk about things that most shops have never seen or even heard about. So what we know. You have spark, You have compression, and you are adding fuel. So all three element are present to at least start and run shortly. So that leaves the possibility of a sheared flywheel key cause spark at the wrong time, or an issue with the valves not opening or staying open at the right length of time to either intake or exhaust. And while checking the flywheel key make sure the ignition module isn't hitting the flywheel which can cause spark under compression issues among other things.

Jun 30, 2024#54

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Alright Jim so down. You are starting to talk about things that most shops have never seen or even heard about. So what we know. You have spark, You have compression, and you are adding fuel. So all three element are present to at least start and run shortly. So that leaves the possibility of a sheared flywheel key cause spark at the wrong time, or an issue with the valves not opening or staying open at the right length of time to either intake or exhaust. And while checking the flywheel key make sure the ignition module isn't hitting the flywheel which can cause spark under compression issues among other things.

Ilengine,

Okay it's early here but the first thing I'm going to do is basically show the state of the system in a video. So when I get outside it'll be simply a video of the flywheel turning and no start. And that's right after carburetor cleaner. Just sprayed in but I have been thinking about crack cylinder wall but then the problem with 85 PSI that seems to be contradictory but I don't know enough. Having said all that, the easiest thing to do is probably to take the flywheel off. See if I did any damage to any of those. Windings to go around the flywheel. Better part of the actual block. Take a look at the magnets. Just inspect whatever I could have done putting it back and then try that again and get a brand new flywheel key and see what happens from there

Thanks,
Jim

Jun 30, 2024#55

J

JimP2014

Jun 30, 2024#56

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:

So the ignition coil has a pretty good air gap. Nothing wrong with it. The spark plug is in all the way and the boot is secured onto the spark plug. The first time I sprayed carburetor cleaner the throttle was not right so I opened up the throttle went to high speed choke whatever and then I sprayed the carburetor cleaner again. This video depicts what's been going on ever since I took the flywheel off because prior that there was banging constant banging every time the engine rotated but back then the engine started up like a champ

Jun 30, 2024#57

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So the ignition coil has a pretty good air gap. Nothing wrong with it. The spark plug is in all the way and the boot is secured onto the spark plug. The first time I sprayed carburetor cleaner the throttle was not right so I opened up the throttle went to high speed choke whatever and then I sprayed the carburetor cleaner again. This video depicts what's been going on ever since I took the flywheel off because prior that there was banging constant banging every time the engine rotated but back then the engine started up like a champ

I failed to mention I couldn't be bothered putting the valve cover back on because I knew it wouldn't start but I would never run it in a well-running engine with a valve cover off. It's just been constant going back and forth. So the only thing that I was wondering is if the folks here believe take off the flywheel and start over or there's some other problem I would appreciate that very much. Thank you

Jim

Jun 30, 2024#58

ILENGINE

It may just be the angle but it looks like the valve in video isn't moving very far. Maybe a 1/4 inch. How does the valve lift compare between the two valves if you turn the flywheel by hand, and compare the movement from fully closed to fully open. And that clunking may be due to the engine appears to be lose on the mower frame.

Jun 30, 2024#59

J

JimP2014

Intake valve. The maximum travel out is 3 cm rocker arm

Intake valve travel comes up to 2 cm. Mark

Exhaust valve when it goes inside. It's at the 1. 2 CM Mark

Exhaust valve all the way out. It's at the 2.3 cm. Mark

Okay these are just raw notes. The way I'm measuring is I go to the cylinder head and I make the origin for measuring distance. The plate that contains the bolt for the rocker arm so that is exactly 0 in

So then I rotate the flywheel and I come up with how far does the rocker arm travel as measured from the rocker arm and the tappet so I'm measuring that side.

If there's any confusion on the way I did this, please ask. Thank you

Jun 30, 2024#60

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Intake valve. The maximum travel out is 3 cm rocker arm

Intake valve travel comes up to 2 cm. Mark

Exhaust valve when it goes inside. It's at the 1. 2 CM Mark

Exhaust valve all the way out. It's at the 2.3 cm. Mark

Okay these are just raw notes. The way I'm measuring is I go to the cylinder head and I make the origin for measuring distance. The plate that contains the bolt for the rocker arm so that is exactly 0 in

So then I rotate the flywheel and I come up with how far does the rocker arm travel as measured from the rocker arm and the tappet so I'm measuring that side.

If there's any confusion on the way I did this, please ask. Thank you

Jun 30, 2024#61

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Intake valve. The maximum travel out is 3 cm rocker arm

Intake valve travel comes up to 2 cm. Mark

Exhaust valve when it goes inside. It's at the 1. 2 CM Mark

Exhaust valve all the way out. It's at the 2.3 cm. Mark

Okay these are just raw notes. The way I'm measuring is I go to the cylinder head and I make the origin for measuring distance. The plate that contains the bolt for the rocker arm so that is exactly 0 in

So then I rotate the flywheel and I come up with how far does the rocker arm travel as measured from the rocker arm and the tappet so I'm measuring that side.

If there's any confusion on the way I did this, please ask. Thank you

I got to go back outside. I know the bottom one is the intake and the upper one is the exhaust. I just got to make sure that I didn't switch the labeling. The dimensions are correct. I just don't know if I made a mistake with the labels

Jun 30, 2024#62

J

JimP2014

I don't know what happened to my last post but I can absolutely say the intake valve which is the bottom one. The maximum travel of the rocker arm tap that intersection is exactly 3 cm

Jun 30, 2024#63

J

JimP2014

I'm not sure if this is always a rule but I believe when the Piston is at top dead center The rocker arms are exactly the same distance from the cylinder head plate and then it seems like the intake valve has a rocker arm that pushes the Piston rod out a little further than on the exhaust valve

Jun 30, 2024#64

J

JimP2014

I was able to crop the image and this would be the intake valve and it might be hard to see the number 3 cm but you can clearly see 4 cm. So that's how far away from the cylinder Head that the rocker arm travels so like I said it travels 3 cm away from the engine as measured from the flat plate which is part of the cylinder head

Jun 30, 2024#65

ILENGINE

Went and measures the valve lift from the rocker arm back to the head on the valve side like you referenced in your example on an old engine. Not the same model number but would have the same camshaft. And I got around 1 CM of movement like you did.

Jun 30, 2024#66

J

JimP2014

IL engine thanks so much. So I haven't taken off the flywheel. But like I said I'm not a mechanic and I don't spend a lot of time with this us. Although over the course of say 50 years I have spent a lot of time on this but the only thing left is in your opinion and for now is it take off the flywheel. Just get another key and set everything back and make sure it's torqued to 80 ft lb and nothing is broken on the engine block from what I used this pry bar and all that stuff. Is that what you're concluding?

Thanks,

Jim

Jun 30, 2024#67

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
IL engine thanks so much. So I haven't taken off the flywheel. But like I said I'm not a mechanic and I don't spend a lot of time with this us. Although over the course of say 50 years I have spent a lot of time on this but the only thing left is in your opinion and for now is it take off the flywheel. Just get another key and set everything back and make sure it's torqued to 80 ft lb and nothing is broken on the engine block from what I used this pry bar and all that stuff. Is that what you're concluding?

Thanks,

Jim

Actually before I do that so I mentioned above that when The rod for the intake travels back inside the engine. The distance to that plate is 2 cm. It only goes in as far as 2 cm. You're telling me yours travel s in to the 1 CM Mark. Where is mine does not. Do you think that's a problem?

Jim

Jun 30, 2024#68

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Actually before I do that so I mentioned above that when The rod for the intake travels back inside the engine. The distance to that plate is 2 cm. It only goes in as far as 2 cm. You're telling me yours travel s in to the 1 CM Mark. Where is mine does not. Do you think that's a problem?

Jim

Oh I think I see what you did. You measured the amount of movement the difference and you came up with 1 cm where I was giving absolute coordinates more or less. So yes they both travel about 1 cm just like yours travels about 1 cm. I think that's what you're saying now. I misread it

Jun 30, 2024#69

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Oh I think I see what you did. You measured the amount of movement the difference and you came up with 1 cm where I was giving absolute coordinates more or less. So yes they both travel about 1 cm just like yours travels about 1 cm. I think that's what you're saying now. I misread it

Jun 30, 2024#70

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69087

So obviously the flywheel key is sheered so there has to be reasons for that and it probably happened the very first time a few days ago after I put the flywheel back so it probably broke pretty quickly. So there has to be a reason for that. I'm going to say one reason might be I didn't torque it to at least 80 foot pounds. I just wonder before I get another flywheel key and put it back if there's anything else I should look for. I did see copper windings and that's the thing that goes around the flywheel so to speak. But it's part of the engine and I'm hoping that only is for charging the battery and nothing else. I don't know if any of those windings are broken because I don't look that closely but I will in a while. So what could be the possible causes of a sheered flywheel key?

Jim

Jun 30, 2024#71

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So obviously the flywheel key is sheered so there has to be reasons for that and it probably happened the very first time a few days ago after I put the flywheel back so it probably broke pretty quickly. So there has to be a reason for that. I'm going to say one reason might be I didn't torque it to at least 80 foot pounds. I just wonder before I get another flywheel key and put it back if there's anything else I should look for. I did see copper windings and that's the thing that goes around the flywheel so to speak. But it's part of the engine and I'm hoping that only is for charging the battery and nothing else. I don't know if any of those windings are broken because I don't look that closely but I will in a while. So what could be the possible causes of a sheered flywheel key?

Jim

Briggs& Stratton 5002k Is what I ordered about a week ago and the only thing I could say is they're about a half inch long. Your choices are a half inch long or I think 1 in long. So the one I had for 3 years and it's probably still good but I can't find it is one half inch long so I got the same length. Maybe I should have gotten the one that is 1 in Long

Jun 30, 2024#72

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
So obviously the flywheel key is sheered so there has to be reasons for that and it probably happened the very first time a few days ago after I put the flywheel back so it probably broke pretty quickly. So there has to be a reason for that. I'm going to say one reason might be I didn't torque it to at least 80 foot pounds. I just wonder before I get another flywheel key and put it back if there's anything else I should look for. I did see copper windings and that's the thing that goes around the flywheel so to speak. But it's part of the engine and I'm hoping that only is for charging the battery and nothing else. I don't know if any of those windings are broken because I don't look that closely but I will in a while. So what could be the possible causes of a sheered flywheel key?

Jim

Most common causes of sheared flywheel keys on riders is oil or grease on the crankshaft taper or improper torque. Unless you hit something that causes a sudden stop of the flywheel. And I have had them shear and rotate the flywheel 180 degrees on startup when not set with a proper torque wrench.

Looks like Briggs dealer site is saying the flywheel torque is supposed to be 110 lb/ft or 149 Nm So that may be the reason for the sheared flywheel key.

Jun 30, 2024#73

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Briggs& Stratton 5002k Is what I ordered about a week ago and the only thing I could say is they're about a half inch long. Your choices are a half inch long or I think 1 in long. So the one I had for 3 years and it's probably still good but I can't find it is one half inch long so I got the same length. Maybe I should have gotten the one that is 1 in Long

796335 Is what I should have ordered. I think it's the original Briggs& Stratton part. This one is listed as a 1/2 in Long and maybe I need to order that one. I have no clue if the other two I have which are not the right model is why it's sheered a few days ago

Jun 30, 2024#74

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
796335 Is what I should have ordered. I think it's the original Briggs& Stratton part. This one is listed as a 1/2 in Long and maybe I need to order that one. I have no clue if the other two I have which are not the right model is why it's sheered a few days ago

I didn't see your reply the first time around and I see what you're saying and I'll have to reread it. But what are your thoughts about using in theory the correct length? But according to Briggs& Stratton I bought three of the wrong kind even though they're a half inch long?

Thanks,
Jim

Jun 30, 2024#75

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So obviously the flywheel key is sheered so there has to be reasons for that and it probably happened the very first time a few days ago after I put the flywheel back so it probably broke pretty quickly. So there has to be a reason for that. I'm going to say one reason might be I didn't torque it to at least 80 foot pounds. I just wonder before I get another flywheel key and put it back if there's anything else I should look for. I did see copper windings and that's the thing that goes around the flywheel so to speak. But it's part of the engine and I'm hoping that only is for charging the battery and nothing else. I don't know if any of those windings are broken because I don't look that closely but I will in a while. So what could be the possible causes of a sheered flywheel key?

Jim

Jun 30, 2024#76

J

JimP2014

I found this in another form and I'm pretty sure the issue about taper applies to this engine completely. So having said that, I'm wondering if I just use the flywheel keys that I bought already rather than buying the specific model number that Briggs and Stratton recommends. This is kind of where I'm at right now with this. Try one of the brand new keys I have or just ordered the absolutely correct one and wait for that to arrive and pick the whole thing up again later?

"This is a tapered shaft, tapered flywheel fit. The key does nothing but line up the flywheel for timing purposes. It's not strong enough to hold while the engine is running. The only purpose for the key is to line up the flywheel until the nut is tight. You can run this engine without a flywheel key if the flywheel nut is torqued properly."

Jun 30, 2024#77

J

JimP2014

And of course I find this. After I make posts to this forum. I got to figure out which one I have.

Jun 30, 2024#78

M

Mark H_NO

Hi Jim,
Sheared key can be from insufficient torque, or something suddenly blocking rotation, such as hitting a big root with the blade. I think that's how I did mine. Ilengine did say "while checking the flywheel key make sure the ignition module isn't hitting the flywheel which can cause spark under compression issues among other things." So check that if you can. I believe someone said the coils are for the charging system.

Jun 30, 2024#79

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
Hi Jim,
Sheared key can be from insufficient torque, or something suddenly blocking rotation, such as hitting a big root with the blade. I think that's how I did mine. Ilengine did say "while checking the flywheel key make sure the ignition module isn't hitting the flywheel which can cause spark under compression issues among other things." So check that if you can. I believe someone said the coils are for the charging system.

Mark Mark, yes, as far as the blade, I don't think that's an issue at all because the PTO clutches off, but I could freely spend the blades just to make sure there's nothing going on down there. But generally speaking, they're not an issue unless you decide to engage the PTO clutch, but I will reread the other stuff you got

Jun 30, 2024#80

M

Mark H_NO

The blade stopping from a blockage can shear the key. That's all I was talking about. If it sheared without ever driving the blades, obviously that didn't happen. Lack of torque, or lube on shaft as Ilengine mentioned probably did it.

Jun 30, 2024#81

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Most common causes of sheared flywheel keys on riders is oil or grease on the crankshaft taper or improper torque. Unless you hit something that causes a sudden stop of the flywheel. And I have had them shear and rotate the flywheel 180 degrees on startup when not set with a proper torque wrench.

Looks like Briggs dealer site is saying the flywheel torque is supposed to be 110 lb/ft or 149 Nm So that may be the reason for the sheared flywheel key.

You know I vaguely remember that from 3 years ago. I'm going to go back to that spec. Apparently 80 ft lb is incorrect. I also figured out my flywheel is tapered and from this other website entirely the guys saying it's mostly for positioning for the initial installation and he said you could probably run an engine without a flywheel key if you got the proper torque spec

Jun 30, 2024#82

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
You know I vaguely remember that from 3 years ago. I'm going to go back to that spec. Apparently 80 ft lb is incorrect. I also figured out my flywheel is tapered and from this other website entirely the guys saying it's mostly for positioning for the initial installation and he said you could probably run an engine without a flywheel key if you got the proper torque spec

Thanks IEngine

Jun 30, 2024#83

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
You know I vaguely remember that from 3 years ago. I'm going to go back to that spec. Apparently 80 ft lb is incorrect. I also figured out my flywheel is tapered and from this other website entirely the guys saying it's mostly for positioning for the initial installation and he said you could probably run an engine without a flywheel key if you got the proper torque spec

Correct. The key just is a placeholder to keep the flywheel and crankshaft in the proper alignment while the torque is applied.

Jun 30, 2024#84

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Correct. The key just is a placeholder to keep the flywheel and crankshaft in the proper alignment while the torque is applied.

ILengine thanks for your help and all this. I can say it's pretty wet outside and tomorrow morning I'm going to be trying and get everything going. But the only other question is, do you recall a stand-alone washer that sits on top in some order before the actual bolt? I do see how the bolt that I have has a washer sort of built in underneath it and it looks like concave up. But besides that I'm just wondering if there's an additional washer that fits between the bolt and the actual flywheel itself?

Thanks,
Jim

Jun 30, 2024#85

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
ILengine thanks for your help and all this. I can say it's pretty wet outside and tomorrow morning I'm going to be trying and get everything going. But the only other question is, do you recall a stand-alone washer that sits on top in some order before the actual bolt? I do see how the bolt that I have has a washer sort of built in underneath it and it looks like concave up. But besides that I'm just wondering if there's an additional washer that fits between the bolt and the actual flywheel itself?

Thanks,
Jim

No additional washer.

Jul 1, 2024#86

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
No additional washer.

It runs it skips here and there no more banging noise. Maybe a slight hunt and surge. I have not adjusted the fuel air mixture screw nor the idle screw.

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#87

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
It runs it skips here and there no more banging noise. Maybe a slight hunt and surge. I have not adjusted the fuel air mixture screw nor the idle screw.

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#88

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
It runs it skips here and there no more banging noise. Maybe a slight hunt and surge. I have not adjusted the fuel air mixture screw nor the idle screw.

Jim

So I tightened it up to about 100 foot pounds. And then it wouldn't restart. I thought shared the flywheel key again but I decided at that point even after torquing it to torque it a little bit more. It's pretty much up near 100. It's an old school torque device

Jul 1, 2024#89

J

JimP2014

ILengine thanks for your help on this so far it's the success if I have a damaged flywheel fan and I certainly don't want to screw off anything that I spent about 16 days trying to fix, but I'm wondering if it can cut? Say maybe 800 square feet without blowing up. Definitely got to order flywheel fan. They're about 30 bucks on Amazon. Anybody have any ideas? Can slightly damaged flywheel fan, plastic type. Provide enough cooling to cut 800 square feet of grass. That's all I want to do?

Providing of course when I put the PTO clutch on it keeps running.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 1, 2024#90

J

JimP2014

Lower left corner of the valve cover has some oil dripping. The valve cover is not a perfect seal but could there be something else going on?

Jul 1, 2024#91

J

JimP2014

So the temperature of the exhaust pipe is about 800° f and the plastic fins are broken and I did not put the the shroud around the engine but I'm not exactly making it work hard. It's just sitting there running. It is starting to exhibit the hunting and surging issue from say 2 weeks ago and prior to all that the reason I even started messing with in the first place is because I thought it was smoking A lot and the color of the smoke was white. That was maybe 4 or 5 weeks ago. I'm trying to figure out if there are just a few things that need to be done or there's something seriously wrong with the engine?

I don't mind spending the time if it's salvageable.

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#92

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
ILengine thanks for your help on this so far it's the success if I have a damaged flywheel fan and I certainly don't want to screw off anything that I spent about 16 days trying to fix, but I'm wondering if it can cut? Say maybe 800 square feet without blowing up. Definitely got to order flywheel fan. They're about 30 bucks on Amazon. Anybody have any ideas? Can slightly damaged flywheel fan, plastic type. Provide enough cooling to cut 800 square feet of grass. That's all I want to do?

Providing of course when I put the PTO clutch on it keeps running.

Thanks,
Jim

Depending on how damaged the fan is. If workable I would at least put the blower cover on to direct some of that air over the head for cooling.

JimP2014 said:
Lower left corner of the valve cover has some oil dripping. The valve cover is not a perfect seal but could there be something else going on?View attachment 69097

Most likely just the gasket leaking. Or if it has sealant. everything has to be dry and free of oil/grease/contaminated for the sealant to cure properly without leaking.

Jul 1, 2024#93

J

JimP2014

So I just was reading many articles on running hot and obviously was not a single person telling you you have a million different things. But I'm wondering first of all it could be running too lean and then the air filter. There is none right now so maybe the breather tube? And I wonder about the valves. Maybe the exhaust valve has an issue. I can say these are things I don't normally have a problem with so I'm sort of lost on the whole thing.

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#94

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I just was reading many articles on running hot and obviously was not a single person telling you you have a million different things. But I'm wondering first of all it could be running too lean and then the air filter. There is none right now so maybe the breather tube? And I wonder about the valves. Maybe the exhaust valve has an issue. I can say these are things I don't normally have a problem with so I'm sort of lost on the whole thing.

Jim

What I'm trying to say is it's better to have one person telling you or a couple then reading a million different articles. That's what I'm trying to say because it turns out to be a million different things

Jul 1, 2024#95

ILENGINE

Definitely need the air cleaner and the breather hose needs to be present and connect to prevent dirt intrusion into the engine. Takes very little dust to totally wipe out the rings and cylinder wall. I wouldn't worry about the valve until you have an issue.

Jul 1, 2024#96

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Definitely need the air cleaner and the breather hose needs to be present and connect to prevent dirt intrusion into the engine. Takes very little dust to totally wipe out the rings and cylinder wall. I wouldn't worry about the valve until you have an issue.

Okay got it on those issues I did read if you run it too. Lean it gets too hot so I'm going to fix that a little at a time. When I had the flywheel off I was going to inspect that breather assembly but that didn't happen. Hoping whatever hunting and surging is going on is 100% carburetor that I can deal with. I'd rather hold off on buying a flywheel fan just in case I destroy the engine first. I hate when you have leftover parts you can't use.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 1, 2024#97

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay got it on those issues I did read if you run it too. Lean it gets too hot so I'm going to fix that a little at a time. When I had the flywheel off I was going to inspect that breather assembly but that didn't happen. Hoping whatever hunting and surging is going on is 100% carburetor that I can deal with. I'd rather hold off on buying a flywheel fan just in case I destroy the engine first. I hate when you have leftover parts you can't use.

Thanks,
Jim

I try to adjust the carburetor while it's running with that that engine housing on and I couldn't do it but with the engine housing off it's doing the hunting and surging thing again and it sounds like it might even be banging. It just doesn't sound right. And the throttle. So the throttle mechanism is bouncing back and forth as it's hunting and surging. I'm thinking maybe I need to get this right which is only like a couple minutes and then when that looks good try and put the engine shroud back on?

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#98

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I try to adjust the carburetor while it's running with that that engine housing on and I couldn't do it but with the engine housing off it's doing the hunting and surging thing again and it sounds like it might even be banging. It just doesn't sound right. And the throttle. So the throttle mechanism is bouncing back and forth as it's hunting and surging. I'm thinking maybe I need to get this right which is only like a couple minutes and then when that looks good try and put the engine shroud back on?

Jim

So I use some of that high temperature red sealant and I locked down the valve cover but yet there's oil dripping directly below the valve cover and I can't figure out where it's coming from. Meaning maybe the cylinder head? Maybe the block itself?

J8m

Jul 1, 2024#99

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I use some of that high temperature red sealant and I locked down the valve cover but yet there's oil dripping directly below the valve cover and I can't figure out where it's coming from. Meaning maybe the cylinder head? Maybe the block itself?

J8m

Okay, from what I can tell it really is leaking from the valve cover which is sort of a relief that it's not something else

Jul 1, 2024#100

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
Okay, from what I can tell it really is leaking from the valve cover which is sort of a relief that it's not something else

With the RTV sealants you have to make sure there is nothing contaminating either surface. but also have to keep the oil residue that is in the head from running back out onto the surface while it cures. Some of those sealants take 24 hours before they are ready for use. The last one i did I elevated the front of the mower before removing the leaking covers, and kept it that way until the next day to prevent the oil in the head from causing issues.

There are a few 1-5 minute ready to use sealants on the market but still require the same prep. The Permatex red high temp is a 24 hour cure sealant.

Jul 1, 2024#101

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
With the RTV sealants you have to make sure there is nothing contaminating either surface. but also have to keep the oil residue that is in the head from running back out onto the surface while it cures. Some of those sealants take 24 hours before they are ready for use. The last one i did I elevated the front of the mower before removing the leaking covers, and kept it that way until the next day to prevent the oil in the head from causing issues.

There are a few 1-5 minute ready to use sealants on the market but still require the same prep. The Permatex red high temp is a 24 hour cure sealant.

Yeah that's the one I used. The one you mentioned I didn't know it was 24 hours. I probably knew that a couple weeks ago, but I guess the good news is nothing very serious is leaking and it sounds like the engine is trying to smooth itself out, but it's still kind of erratic but the throttle linkage doesn't seem to be jumping as much. I've only been running maybe 45 seconds and I actually engaged the blade and it kept running so I'm hoping this is worth putting the time and money into it.

But thanks again Ilengine,
Jim

Jul 1, 2024#102

J

JimP2014

This is the latest. So far the only thing he can't see is the muffler area and there is no muffler that overheated and broke but 3/4 of the way in the engine starts struggling and it has some hunting and surging. Also the engine sounds kind of tinny. Maybe with all the stuff missing could be the reason but I thought it sounded better than this with the engine shroud off

Jim

Jul 1, 2024#103

M

Mark H_NO

Glad to see it running anyhow. Good luck with it.

Jul 1, 2024#104

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
Glad to see it running anyhow. Good luck with it.

Thanks Mark. The machine you see here was giving it to me for free. It was blowing oil out of the exhaust and within a matter of a few days I had it running as good as it possibly could be. That was 3 years ago. Now I'm struggling for like 15 days just to get it to run. I have some videos of the thing blowing oil before I got it in. Perfect running condition but I'm not a mechanic. I just got lucky.

Jul 1, 2024#105

M

Mark H_NO

My introduction to this site was a Toro Recycler mower that I was given. I cleaned the carb and it ran great. For a day. Then I messed with it on and off over a week without it running at all. I found this place, posted here, got some advice and got it fixed. Once I run it on my lawn for a week or so, I'll give it to my niece, who had moved into a house with grass. By the way, it had a sheared flywheel key.

Jul 1, 2024#106

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
My introduction to this site was a Toro Recycler mower that I was given. I cleaned the carb and it ran great. For a day. Then I messed with it on and off over a week without it running at all. I found this place, posted here, got some advice and got it fixed. Once I run it on my lawn for a week or so, I'll give it to my niece, who had moved into a house with grass. By the way, it had a sheared flywheel key.

That's interesting about the flywheel key. I know a lot of companies, for example, build knowledge, bases, and from what I learned is if you have a machine that's running in any condition and you change the flywheel key and then it won't start it all. You shared the flywheel key instantly. As painful as it sounds. I wish I check right away instead of putting it off. It's just hard to believe but it was torqued to about 80 foot pounds and as I recall from here the spec is 110 foot pounds and I couldn't do that while prying up on the flywheel with my other hand but I did get it to 100 ft lb hoping that would be good enough.
Jim

Jul 2, 2024#107

J

JimP2014

I went out this morning and I cleaned up the cylinder head and the valve cover gasket of that red sealant and I replaced that with this cardboard like valve cover gasket. I didn't like it from the get-go but I somehow bought four of them so I can tell you that leaks. So based on il engine the reminder it takes 24 hours. I think the best stuff other than is fast carrying gasket maker stuff. It's probably to use that red ceiling. There's probably some weird thing going on with something bent. I'm thinking that red sealant is more forgiving than a regular perfectly flat. Gasket is probably one drop of oil every 5 to 10 seconds. However, I only had running for about a minute and mostly the hunting and surging is minimal.

Jim

Jul 2, 2024#108

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I went out this morning and I cleaned up the cylinder head and the valve cover gasket of that red sealant and I replaced that with this cardboard like valve cover gasket. I didn't like it from the get-go but I somehow bought four of them so I can tell you that leaks. So based on il engine the reminder it takes 24 hours. I think the best stuff other than is fast carrying gasket maker stuff. It's probably to use that red ceiling. There's probably some weird thing going on with something bent. I'm thinking that red sealant is more forgiving than a regular perfectly flat. Gasket is probably one drop of oil every 5 to 10 seconds. However, I only had running for about a minute and mostly the hunting and surging is minimal.

Jim

I just realized how many products that company sells to be clear product I own is called ultra red and can handle temperatures up to 750° f Permatex

Jul 2, 2024#109

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
I just realized how many products that company sells to be clear product I own is called ultra red and can handle temperatures up to 750° f Permatex

Here is the instructions for the ultra Red
DIRECTIONS: 1. For best results, surfaces should be clean and dry. 2. Cut nozzle and apply a continuous 1/16″ to 1/4″ (2 to 6mm) bead of silicone to one surface, surrounding all bolt holes. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet. Finger tighten until material begins to squeeze out around flange. 3. Let dry for one hour then tighten to torque specifications. 4. Allow 24 hours to fully cure before filling with fluids or returning to service.
5. Replace cap after use. NOTE: Not recommended for use on head gaskets or parts in contact with gasoline.

Jul 2, 2024#110

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Here is the instructions for the ultra Red
DIRECTIONS: 1. For best results, surfaces should be clean and dry. 2. Cut nozzle and apply a continuous 1/16″ to 1/4″ (2 to 6mm) bead of silicone to one surface, surrounding all bolt holes. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet. Finger tighten until material begins to squeeze out around flange. 3. Let dry for one hour then tighten to torque specifications. 4. Allow 24 hours to fully cure before filling with fluids or returning to service.
5. Replace cap after use. NOTE: Not recommended for use on head gaskets or parts in contact with gasoline.

Thanks for those directions. I actually took a screenshot right before I applied it but one thing I did notice as after I waited a bit I pressed it into the cylinder and I noticed that oil was still dripping from inside the valve area so it was too late. I already pressed it in. Do you think that's strange? The oil is still dripping and then I decided just to keep going and bolt it down slightly and then in 2 hours around 12:30 p.m. on the East Coast I plan on tightening it some more. So what do you think about the oil dripping? I thought only drips for a couple minutes after the engine cools down and then it's done dripping

Jul 2, 2024#111

ILENGINE

Some of those heads tend to seep oil for a period of time, and some the bottom edge sits at the sump oil level. So can be challenging to keep oil out of the area while letting the stuff cure.

Jul 2, 2024#112

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
Some of those heads tend to seep oil for a period of time, and some the bottom edge sits at the sump oil level. So can be challenging to keep oil out of the area while letting the stuff cure.

Oh shoot! So what do I do now? It's been an hour and it was pressed in. I pressed it in like I said and then I realized it was still dripping oil. That is about experience. I had no clue that was going to happen but I'm guessing the silicone prevented further oil from seeping out. Not sure on that but isn't the oil harmful to the uncured high temperature? Silicone, I mean if I got to start over I'd rather start over right now. Then tomorrow morning after I find out it's still leaking. What would you do? IL engine?

Jul 2, 2024#113

J

JimP2014

This is from 9:30 a.m. today July 2nd. The throttle linkage is definitely behaving a lot better and then I discovered the oil dripping after I shut it down, but seems like it's going in the forward direction in a good way

Jim

Jul 2, 2024#114

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
Oh shoot! So what do I do now? It's been an hour and it was pressed in. I pressed it in like I said and then I realized it was still dripping oil. That is about experience. I had no clue that was going to happen but I'm guessing the silicone prevented further oil from seeping out. Not sure on that but isn't the oil harmful to the uncured high temperature? Silicone, I mean if I got to start over I'd rather start over right now. Then tomorrow morning after I find out it's still leaking. What would you do? IL engine?

If oil got on either surface while it is curing it will not seal. Don't beat youself up though. I have had a few failures over the years also. Just had one a couple weeks ago that the Honda sealant was hardening and failing within minutes of the engine coming up to operating temperature. Basically can't use HondaBond 4 on valve covers because it only rated for 300F.

Jul 2, 2024#115

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
If oil got on either surface while it is curing it will not seal. Don't beat youself up though. I have had a few failures over the years also. Just had one a couple weeks ago that the Honda sealant was hardening and failing within minutes of the engine coming up to operating temperature. Basically can't use HondaBond 4 on valve covers because it only rated for 300F.

So maybe 15 minutes ago I went out and I tightened it just a little bit more. I didn't see any oil leaking even though it's still carrying so I'm trying to figure out. If I run it tomorrow and there's oil leaking then it'll be coming out of the bottom and then I'm thinking this time put paper towel around the rocker arms and all that stuff and just repair the bottom surface of the valve cover and then when I'm ready just take out the paper towel and that's only if tomorrow morning. I notice oil leaking from engine use. Right now I can tell you there is no oil leaking but I know from what I read this is not the other type of the pmetrex where it doesn't matter if oil gets on it. But as far as I know the other product doesn't do. 750° f

Jul 2, 2024#116

F

Forest#2

JimP2014 said:
Lower left corner of the valve cover has some oil dripping. The valve cover is not a perfect seal but could there be something else going on?View attachment 69097

Maybe, yes.

Jul 2, 2024#117

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
Maybe, yes.

Forest, I am sorry you replied to what was going on say a week ago and I thought it was engine related at that time but this is July 2nd issue and it's definitely oil coming from inside the cylinder head seeping past The gasket from say 8:30 in the morning but I removed all that and I started over and at 9:30 a.m. I went with the high temperature red ceiling and then as I pressed it into the cylinder head, I realized that some oil was dripping even then. And so now I don't think any oil is dripping being 1:00 p.m. July 2nd I'm going to go back out and take a look but I was mentioning if it starts up tomorrow and then oil starts seeping out. I was wondering if I could just remove all The red ceiling from the bottom of the valve cover and then just replace that. But also make damn sure no oil will come in contact with I anticipate to be newly applied high temperature red ceiling on July 3rd, 8:00 a.m. and I'm not sure if this message is posted for what's been going on today or this is an older thread.

Jim

Jul 2, 2024#118

J

JimP2014

It seems like the top and the vertical sides for the high temperature red gasket sealant should be okay but either later today or tomorrow morning. I'm thinking of removing all the the red gasket material from the bottom horizontal edge and using a paper towel dry up as much oil in that area and then put some inside the cylinder head and then finally new gasket material and press the thing into the cylinder head and let that cure and then of course remove the paper towels and then seal it up the final time. It seems like with this engine the only way to properly seal it is to point the lawn tractor straight up or I believe in the past I had a different kind of valve cover gasket where it was not a piece of paper where it has some thickness to it. Maybe something like that would work? The other thing is it seem like it was possibly rubbery where it could accept some differences in two flat pieces of metal coming together. I have four of these paper. Gaskets and I think unless everything is perfect, these will not work.

Jim

Jul 2, 2024#119

J

JimP2014

Since I put the high temperature gasket sealant in, I decided I would test her right now even though it's less than 24 hours for the curing temperature outside because it's in the sun sun. It's probably 120°. F so if it leaked then I had a solution for that. So far it's not leaking but what I can say with everything put back except the grill for the flywheel is it's definitely hunting and surging so I'm just hoping it's still a carburetor problem rather than something else. I tried to engage the blades and they seem to work. I don't know how long with or without blades. The engine will keep running and then there's explosions seem to come out of the exhaust pipe because there is no muffler currently.

Jim

Jul 3, 2024#120

J

JimP2014

Jul 3, 2024#121

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69108

About 3 weeks ago when this adventure began, the exhaust pipe got so hot. The weld separated to the muffler so I have four sheet metal screws. Nothing fancy. No it's red lock and I'm going to see if whatever is wrong with the engine and hopefully just the carburetor is the problem how this Briggs& Stratton OHV engine will sound

Jul 3, 2024#122

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
About 3 weeks ago when this adventure began, the exhaust pipe got so hot. The weld separated to the muffler so I have four sheet metal screws. Nothing fancy. No it's red lock and I'm going to see if whatever is wrong with the engine and hopefully just the carburetor is the problem how this Briggs& Stratton OHV engine will sound

So it's the sheet metal screw gone into metal and that's it. Nothing fancy. No adhesives nothing

Jul 3, 2024#123

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So it's the sheet metal screw gone into metal and that's it. Nothing fancy. No adhesives nothing

Jul 3, 2024#124

J

JimP2014

Well you can't put the muffler back without taking off the cylinder head.

Jul 4, 2024#125

J

JimP2014

since the engine starts up right away and then his struggles with explosions hunting and surging I revisited the flywheel and I notice the flywheel key is sticking out higher than the drive shaft. Also without specialized tools I can't get the flywheel off. So I have the Briggs& Stratton flywheeler are on order. I'm wondering if simply by having the flywheel key higher up on the drive shaft if that could be an issue. Other than that, I've taken close-ups of the flywheel key and it does not appear to be sheered and the other issue is if there's a theoretical dead center for alignment, how far off can a flywheel be to the left or right and still run correctly? In other words, 1 mm 2 mm 3 mm like that?

Jim

Jul 4, 2024#126

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69114 since the engine starts up right away and then his struggles with explosions hunting and surging I revisited the flywheel and I notice the flywheel key is sticking out higher than the drive shaft. Also without specialized tools I can't get the flywheel off. So I have the Briggs& Stratton flywheeler are on order. I'm wondering if simply by having the flywheel key higher up on the drive shaft if that could be an issue. Other than that, I've taken close-ups of the flywheel key and it does not appear to be sheered and the other issue is if there's a theoretical dead center for alignment, how far off can a flywheel be to the left or right and still run correctly? In other words, 1 mm 2 mm 3 mm like that?

Jim

I have a flywheel puller made by Briggs& Stratton on order Is what I was trying to say above

Jul 4, 2024#127

StarTech

But all you needed was a harmonic balancer puller set. Actually the Briggs puller is not a very good design but works.

Now I do use puller shaft protectors as added insurance against shaft damage.

Jul 4, 2024#128

J

JimP2014

StarTech said:
But all you needed was a harmonic balancer puller set. Actually the Briggs puller is not a very good design but works.

Now I do use puller shaft protectors as added insurance against shaft damage.

"Place the flywheel on the crankshaft and look through the flywheel hub to align the keyways on the flywheel and crankshaft.
With the flywheel in place, place the key in the keyway; it should fit securely. If you feel play, check to see if the key is upside down."
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/e...ce the flywheel on the,the key is upside down.

While it's true, I'm using my phone and I have trouble seeing all the text, but I love the way they mention it could be upside down. However, I don't see any place where they say here's what right side up is and this is directly from Briggs and Stratton. I did notice a little notch on one of the ends of the flywheel key but I did not know what it was for and I guess now it has something to do with the orientation?
Jim

Jul 4, 2024#129

J

JimP2014

I think what I failed to say is there's no way the flywheel key should be sitting up higher than the actual crankshaft. I'm just wondering if that makes sense. It's not easy to find that kind of information only over hundreds of articles?

Jul 4, 2024#130

J

JimP2014

I think what I failed to say is there's no way the flywheel key should be sitting up higher

JimP2014 said:
I think what I failed to say is there's no way the flywheel key should be sitting up higher than the actual crankshaft. I'm just wondering if that makes sense. It's not easy to find that kind of information only over hundreds of articles?

The other thing I noticed is if you rotate the flywheel so the magnet is directly on center with the ignition coil. I would think the notch in the crank shaft would point in that direction. It's not it's pointing say 90° clockwise from the ignition coil. And I'm wondering if this is a very serious problem with the engine itself?

Jul 4, 2024#131

ILENGINE

JimP2014 said:
I think what I failed to say is there's no way the flywheel key should be sitting up higher

The other thing I noticed is if you rotate the flywheel so the magnet is directly on center with the ignition coil. I would think the notch in the crank shaft would point in that direction. It's not it's pointing say 90° clockwise from the ignition coil. And I'm wondering if this is a very serious problem with the engine itself?

I suspect you are overthinking again. How some of these companies time their engines doesn't correspond to how the keyways are cut. If the magnet is facing the ignition coil were is the piston located. Should be close to TDC.

Jul 4, 2024#132

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
I suspect you are overthinking again. How some of these companies time their engines doesn't correspond to how the keyways are cut. If the magnet is facing the ignition coil were is the piston located. Should be close to TDC.

Thank you very much for the answer Ilengine.

Jim

Jul 5, 2024#133

J

JimP2014

For what it's worth, Sears has a video on replacing the flywheel key and in it they say push it down flush with the top of the crankshaft.

I believe a few days ago I actually did that but I'm not positive but if I did then I don't understand how the flywheel key could have raised itself up.

I'm just guessing and I don't know for sure. The flywheel itself is sitting up higher on the crankshaft then it should be.

Not sure if this is useful information to anyone else?

Jim

Jul 5, 2024#134

F

Forest#2

A Briggs and Stratton engine service manual is a good thing.

Has lots of pictures and one picture is worth a thousand words.

I see 14 pages of questions and answers. (but I did not read every page)

What is your latest concern? Is your engine running yet?

Jul 5, 2024#135

J

JimP2014

Hello Forest, I'm waiting right now as we speak for a flywheel puller because I can't get the flywheel off and I'm not going to try and pry it anymore. So before I decide to take the flywheel off, the engine starts right up. That's not even an issue and then it starts going into loud explosions. I think coming out of the exhaust I messed around with the timing. Or should I say the valve clearance maybe 10 times? I have replaced the ignition coil. I've gone back to the old ignition coil. I have replaced the spark plug. I've gone back to the old spark plug. It's rc 12yc I bought a new carburetor. I use that I'm going back to the old carburetor thoroughly cleaned out the gas tank. The strain new gas going into it bought a new fuel filter and like I said loud explosions coming out of the exhaust. I've also fixed the valve cover with red high temperature sealant that is holding the electronic fuel solenoid works. At least it clicks. I don't know what happens when it's running. This is where the project is at so my goal is to put a new flywheel key on and hopefully it runs smoothly. Also it has sounded very tinny like something's wrong but I'm not a mechanic so whatever I hear it's not with someone else could point to and say yeah I know what that is because I don't know.

Jim

Jul 5, 2024#136

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hello Forest, I'm waiting right now as we speak for a flywheel puller because I can't get the flywheel off and I'm not going to try and pry it anymore. So before I decide to take the flywheel off, the engine starts right up. That's not even an issue and then it starts going into loud explosions. I think coming out of the exhaust I messed around with the timing. Or should I say the valve clearance maybe 10 times? I have replaced the ignition coil. I've gone back to the old ignition coil. I have replaced the spark plug. I've gone back to the old spark plug. It's rc 12yc I bought a new carburetor. I use that I'm going back to the old carburetor thoroughly cleaned out the gas tank. The strain new gas going into it bought a new fuel filter and like I said loud explosions coming out of the exhaust. I've also fixed the valve cover with red high temperature sealant that is holding the electronic fuel solenoid works. At least it clicks. I don't know what happens when it's running. This is where the project is at so my goal is to put a new flywheel key on and hopefully it runs smoothly. Also it has sounded very tinny like something's wrong but I'm not a mechanic so whatever I hear it's not with someone else could point to and say yeah I know what that is because I don't know.

Jim

Just to be clear, I bought all kinds of new components. I would swap the new one in. I swapped the old one out. I swapped the old one back in. I swapped the new one in. It doesn't matter like all the old components are fine from what I gather

Jul 5, 2024#137

J

JimP2014

Jul 5, 2024#138

J

JimP2014

Jul 5, 2024#139

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69135

So I turned each nut probably 50 times and nothing is happening. I thought the flywheel was supposed to break free from the crankshaft. Is this a common problem where this tool does not work?

Jim

Jul 5, 2024#140

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I turned each nut probably 50 times and nothing is happening. I thought the flywheel was supposed to break free from the crankshaft. Is this a common problem where this tool does not work?

Jim

I'm hoping this is the problem. The first step should be tighten the bolt all the way down through the flywheel so that the end of the bolt makes contact with the short block. Otherwise it will not work.

But if that is the problem then I'm thinking that's a lot of force confined to a small area and you could crack the short block.

Jim

Jul 5, 2024#141

ILENGINE

With the briggs flywheel tool the bottom nut is just used to keep the pull bolts from falling out of the puller. They are never tighten down on the flywheel. Should just thread the bolts through the flywheel enough to capture all the threads. Don't turn into the block or could do damage. After getting a good snug pull with the nuts above the puller, I wlll take a punch and stick through the center hole and then give it a good tap with a hammer to break the flywheel loose.

Jul 6, 2024#142

J

JimP2014

ILENGINE said:
With the briggs flywheel tool the bottom nut is just used to keep the pull bolts from falling out of the puller. They are never tighten down on the flywheel. Should just thread the bolts through the flywheel enough to capture all the threads. Don't turn into the block or could do damage. After getting a good snug pull with the nuts above the puller, I wlll take a punch and stick through the center hole and then give it a good tap with a hammer to break the flywheel loose.

I went outside to start over. I backed out the bolts and as I did the flywheel was loose. I was able to get it off when I was tightening down last night. There was no indication that I was doing anything productive, but the key towards the bottom of the screen has some damage from when I was hitting it with a screwdriver and the other end has a notch cut into it. I'm guessing this notch goes up so you can grab it with some grabber tool if need be?

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#143

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69137

I went outside to start over. I backed out the bolts and as I did the flywheel was loose. I was able to get it off when I was tightening down last night. There was no indication that I was doing anything productive, but the key towards the bottom of the screen has some damage from when I was hitting it with a screwdriver and the other end has a notch cut into it. I'm guessing this notch goes up so you can grab it with some grabber tool if need be?

Jim

In other words, when you see the notch point it towards the sky?

Jul 6, 2024#144

J

JimP2014

I was able to remove the flywheel. I have no idea where the post I just made ended up including pictures of flywheel keys. But the only question is about the notch cut into the flywheel key and the only reason I could see it being there in the first place is you can probably grab it and then position it between the crankshaft and the notch for the flywheel itself without losing the key someplace. So I'm guessing the notch points up and if that's true that would be a smart move on the engineers at Briggs and Stratton. I can't see any other reason for it?

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#145

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69137

I went outside to start over. I backed out the bolts and as I did the flywheel was loose. I was able to get it off when I was tightening down last night. There was no indication that I was doing anything productive, but the key towards the bottom of the screen has some damage from when I was hitting it with a screwdriver and the other end has a notch cut into it. I'm guessing this notch goes up so you can grab it with some grabber tool if need be?

Jim

Correction. I was not able to get it off last night. It was impossible to get it off last night every time I turned those nuts. Clockwise I expected something to break free and that never happened. That is what I was trying to say above. So at that point I couldn't figure out what was going on this morning. I did nothing more than say. Let's start over. I backed out the bolt and the nuts and the flywheel came free

Jul 6, 2024#146

M

mmoffitt

Awful banging hhhhhhhmmmmmmm? Sounds interesting!

Jul 6, 2024#147

K

kjonxx

May be the cam shaft ?

Jul 6, 2024#148

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69137

I went outside to start over. I backed out the bolts and as I did the flywheel was loose. I was able to get it off when I was tightening down last night. There was no indication that I was doing anything productive, but the key towards the bottom of the screen has some damage from when I was hitting it with a screwdriver and the other end has a notch cut into it. I'm guessing this notch goes up so you can grab it with some grabber tool if need be?

Jim

Correction. I was not able to get it off last night. It was impossible to get it off last night every time I turned

kjonxx said:
May be the cam shaft ?

I can only say this forum Is great and what I know is many of you. If you are standing right over this engine while it was running, you could probably figure it out instantly. I may have wasted like 3 weeks but that I don't know. However, today I'm hoping to get the flywheel secured I also would like to pass along stuffing paper towel down into the hole that is part of the crankshaft so I don't lose another flywheel key down there, that I plan on doing today.

And then start it up and see if I get hunting and surging if I get a lot of explosions coming from the exhaust area and also any banging.

While making videos with audio is great, I think being right there to hear things is the best way.

It would not surprise me if something internal to the engine is actually broken and without the expertise of listening for the correct things has certainly dragged this project out far longer than it should have.

I have contacted a small engine expert who does go out in the field and I'm hoping he has time where the only thing I really asked him to do was to listen to what's going on and tell me his thoughts.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#149

O

oldntired55

JimP2014 said:
https://www.partswarehouse.com/31P677-3373-G2-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235041.htm

Thank you very much for your assessment. That makes a lot of sense, especially the part about. Well, if the spark is at the spark plug then you can just rest assure it has nothing to do with all that safety stuff that is key. But beyond that, what you mentioned about compression and the other stuff is what I suppose I need to look at. I can only say that maybe 10 days ago there was an awful banging going on every time there was a rotation of the flywheel and I wonder if eventually that broke something don't know. But again I appreciate your help.

Jim

i just replaced a timing gear on crankshaft on a smaller 675 series briggs... had spark, key was ok... cam was out of time,,, just an idea

Jul 6, 2024#150

J

JimP2014

oldntired55 said:
i just replaced a timing gear on crankshaft on a smaller 675 series briggs... had spark, key was ok... cam was out of time,,, just an idea

Thanks old and tired. So I just did a search on symptoms of a bad timing gear on a crankshaft for Briggs& Stratton engine or something very similar as a phrase.

And again, I'm not an engine mechanic and I could tell you there is no way in hell I could ever come up with that phrase with what I know about engines probably not in a billion years. So wow. Overall the internet is great, especially this forum and YouTube videos unless you know exactly what you're looking for because you know what the problem is in advance. There's a good chance you're not going to find what you're looking for, unless it's a simple problem, that's my conclusion.

But thanks again old and tired. I will keep that in mind.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#151

T

tschwarting

Sounds like a timing issue. By that I mean look at the flywheel key. Doesn't take much of a shear to throw off timing.

Jul 6, 2024#152

K

kyledeere79

JimP2014 said:
Thanks old and tired. So I just did a search on symptoms of a bad timing gear on a crankshaft for Briggs& Stratton engine or something very similar as a phrase.

And again, I'm not an engine mechanic and I could tell you there is no way in hell I could ever come up with that phrase with what I know about engines probably not in a billion years. So wow. Overall the internet is great, especially this forum and YouTube videos unless you know exactly what you're looking for because you know what the problem is in advance. There's a good chance you're not going to find what you're looking for, unless it's a simple problem, that's my conclusion.

But thanks again old and tired. I will keep that in mind.

Jim

Jim- I think the original issue is that the throttle plate came off inside the carb. Either the little brass screws broke, came loose or the throttle shaft broke. Little screws in the cylinder would explain the banging.

Jul 6, 2024#153

J

JimP2014

kyledeere79 said:
Jim- I think the original issue is that the throttle plate came off inside the carb. Either the little brass screws broke, came loose or the throttle shaft broke. Little screws in the cylinder would explain the banging.

Thanks for your reply on this and I can only say I swapped out the original carburetor I put a brand new carburetor in which actually if you know what you're doing only takes under 5 minutes or less and it was the same problem. But having said that, since I went back to the original carburetor I will take a look at missing screws. I sent this reply on July 6th at 8:55 a.m. on the East Coast

Jul 6, 2024#154

T

Trob

If it is an Intek engine, the problem is probably the compression release on the camshaft, very common problem on Intek engines.

Jul 6, 2024#155

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Thanks old and tired. So I just did a search on symptoms of a bad timing gear on a crankshaft for Briggs& Stratton engine or something very similar as a phrase.

And again, I'm not an engine mechanic and I could tell you there is no way in hell I could ever come up with that phrase with what I know about engines probably not in a billion years. So wow. Overall the internet is great, especially this forum and YouTube videos unless you know exactly what you're looking for because you know what the problem is in advance. There's a good chance you're not going to find what you're looking for, unless it's a simple problem, that's my conclusion.

But thanks again old and tired. I will keep that in mind.

Jim

It's July 6th 2024 and I can see where I have posted some years ago about a problem with the Briggs& Stratton engine and somehow I think I'm replying to a problem from back then. I can't figure out what's going on with the forum but from here on out I'm going to post the date and the time in the message. So it's July 6th 2024 9:00 a.m. and I'm waiting for a rain to stop and to go back out and put the flywheel back on. Go to 100 lb torque and take it from there.

Jim
Sent on July 6th. 2024 9:03 a.m.

Jul 6, 2024#156

P

Peva

Groundhog Day

(there's a date and time stamp at the top of each post)

Jul 6, 2024#157

J

JimP2014

kyledeere79 said:
Jim- I think the original issue is that the throttle plate came off inside the carb. Either the little brass screws broke, came loose or the throttle shaft broke. Little screws in the cylinder would explain the banging.

Kyledere thanks for the reply. I can tell you about 3 weeks ago there was smoke on the muffler and it was very smoky and I thought the problem was a head gasket. I really didn't know what the problem was but at that time it had awesome power. There was nothing wrong with it except a lot of smoke so I replaced the head gasket and all's I could say is from there everything went downhill. It may have been a valve cover gasket all along. I don't know. I'm just trying to get everything back together again so I can run it.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#158

G

g-man57

I'm not the greatest small engine mechanic - I keep my stuff running well and that's about it. But if I understand all you posts, the motor turns (I think), you have spark (I think), and the motor pops on occasion (I think). Given those premises, did you possibly hit a rock or stump that may have broken the key that keeps the flywheel located on the crank? All of your clues would indicate a possible timing issue to me.

Jul 6, 2024#159

J

JimP2014

g-man57 said:
I'm not the greatest small engine mechanic - I keep my stuff running well and that's about it. But if I understand all you posts, the motor turns (I think), you have spark (I think), and the motor pops on occasion (I think). Given those premises, did you possibly hit a rock or stump that may have broken the key that keeps the flywheel located on the crank? All of your clues would indicate a possible timing issue to me.

Okay to answer your question, 3 weeks ago there was a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust. I thought it was the cylinder head gasket and it may have been in reality the valve cover gasket. I failed to follow up with what happened next. So what happened next was I put oil back in the engine but because this engine was given to me for free because the guy overfilled the oil in the first place I was very careful about how much oil I added. I think in fact I added too little oil even though I know about oil and the importance of it. So after I got everything back together 3 weeks ago I was cutting the lawn. The engine was running great and then the engine just stopped so I pushed it back to the work area and then from there I believe when I was able to inspect the flywheel key there was nothing wrong with it but then I lost it. Trying to put it back in the second time around. The flywheel key was sheered but at that point I had so many different things going on. I could not figure out what's what. So I replaced every component on the engine. Small components, spark plugs, carburetors ignition coils, fuel filters just everything that attaches to the engine and then at some point maybe a couple weeks ago I ran into loud banging constant popping explosions coming out of the exhaust. Just so many different things without the proper experience. I did not even have a clue as to what was going on. So right now July 6th at 10:30 a.m. The flywheel key is brand new and it is in place. It needs to be tightened down. Waiting for the rain to stop. And it should start without carburetor cleaner because it has started up really well recently. But the problem then becomes banging and explosions and hunting and surging. So I'm hoping after going through everything like a pre-flight checklist and before I turn the key to everything is where it should be and take it from there as il engine pointed out the flywheel key or the torque should I say should be at 100 lb? Or maybe he said 110 but I will double check on that which was why that flywheel in the first place cuz I only torqued it to 80 lb

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#160

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay to answer your question, 3 weeks ago there was a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust. I thought it was the cylinder head gasket and it may have been in reality the valve cover gasket. I failed to follow up with what happened next. So what happened next was I put oil back in the engine but because this engine was given to me for free because the guy overfilled the oil in the first place I was very careful about how much oil I added. I think in fact I added too little oil even though I know about oil and the importance of it. So after I got everything back together 3 weeks ago I was cutting the lawn. The engine was running great and then the engine just stopped so I pushed it back to the work area and then from there I believe when I was able to inspect the flywheel key there was nothing wrong with it but then I lost it. Trying to put it back in the second time around. The flywheel key was sheered but at that point I had so many different things going on. I could not figure out what's what. So I replaced every component on the engine. Small components, spark plugs, carburetors ignition coils, fuel filters just everything that attaches to the engine and then at some point maybe a couple weeks ago I ran into loud banging constant popping explosions coming out of the exhaust. Just so many different things without the proper experience. I did not even have a clue as to what was going on. So right now July 6th at 10:30 a.m. The flywheel key is brand new and it is in place. It needs to be tightened down. Waiting for the rain to stop. And it should start without carburetor cleaner because it has started up really well recently. But the problem then becomes banging and explosions and hunting and surging. So I'm hoping after going through everything like a pre-flight checklist and before I turn the key to everything is where it should be and take it from there as il engine pointed out the flywheel key or the torque should I say should be at 100 lb? Or maybe he said 110 but I will double check on that which was why that flywheel in the first place cuz I only torqued it to 80 lb

Jim

And there's just so many different things to remember, but one thing that I noticed only a couple days ago. 800° F. Using a thermal gun so there's something wrong with the temperature on the exhaust so I got to look at that too and I think that's everything before I go outside and get the flywheel properly installed

Jul 6, 2024#161

Z

Zedo

JimP2014 said:
I found this in another form and I'm pretty sure the issue about taper applies to this engine completely. So having said that, I'm wondering if I just use the flywheel keys that I bought already rather than buying the specific model number that Briggs and Stratton recommends. This is kind of where I'm at right now with this. Try one of the brand new keys I have or just ordered the absolutely correct one and wait for that to arrive and pick the whole thing up again later?

"This is a tapered shaft, tapered flywheel fit. The key does nothing but line up the flywheel for timing purposes. It's not strong enough to hold while the engine is running. The only purpose for the key is to line up the flywheel until the nut is tight. You can run this engine without a flywheel key if the flywheel nut is torqued properly."

Jul 6, 2024#162

Z

Zedo

JimP2014 said:
I found this in another form and I'm pretty sure the issue about taper applies to this engine completely. So having said that, I'm wondering if I just use the flywheel keys that I bought already rather than buying the specific model number that Briggs and Stratton recommends. This is kind of where I'm at right now with this. Try one of the brand new keys I have or just ordered the absolutely correct one and wait for that to arrive and pick the whole thing up again later?

"This is a tapered shaft, tapered flywheel fit. The key does nothing but line up the flywheel for timing purposes. It's not strong enough to hold while the engine is running. The only purpose for the key is to line up the flywheel until the nut is tight. You can run this engine without a flywheel key if the flywheel nut is torqued properly."

OMG! That shaft is pretty well chewed up, the flywheel has to be a tight fit on that tapered camshaft. You CANNOT run that without a key as you described. The key is NOT tapered, it's broken off. Sorry to interrupt , but you are all over the map troubleshooting this engine. I got dizzy just reading your ( seems like100 posts ) comments. Take it to someone that knows what they are doing. Good Grief !

Jul 6, 2024#163

Z

Zedo

JimP2014 said:
You know I vaguely remember that from 3 years ago. I'm going to go back to that spec. Apparently 80 ft lb is incorrect. I also figured out my flywheel is tapered and from this other website entirely the guys saying it's mostly for positioning for the initial installation and he said you could probably run an engine without a flywheel key if you got the proper torque spec

Jul 6, 2024#164

Z

Zedo

No you cant run an engine without a flywheel key OMG! NO! Why do you think they put one there, decoration? Please take the mower to someone that knows what the hell is wrong with it.

Jul 6, 2024#165

J

JimP2014

Zedo said:
No you cant run an engine without a flywheel key OMG! NO! Why do you think they put one there, decoration? Please take the mower to someone that knows what the hell is wrong with it.

I'm sorry for the confusion on this. There was no intention to ever run the flywheel without a flywheel key. I was talking about what the purpose of it is. I would never run a flywheel without a flywheel key

Jul 6, 2024#166

E

emartin1951

JimP2014 said:
In the last two weeks I've done many things, but in the meantime the current problem is this definitely getting spark to the spark plug after spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake while turning the key. The only thing that happens is backfire through the carburetor or popping the engine refuses to start. The only thing I can think of is the spark plug is definitely working, so I'm wondering if there's some kill switch that allows for the flywheel to rotate where it seems everything will start and engage flywheel and the engine. But at the very last second a kill switch shuts off everything and prevents it from starting. So in other words, I'm looking at carburetor problem but maybe I should be looking for some kill switch that's shorting out everything. It's as if all systems are go but at the last second this kill switch is preventing the engine from starting I wonder if anyone is familiar with this situation before. Also, the fuel solenoid definitely clicks when you turn the key but the carburetor cleaner going into the intake. Even if there's a kill switch situation on going, I would think the engine would start up for a couple seconds. I don't think a kill switch, even if active could prevent the engine from starting for at least a second or two, but that's what it seems like is happening.

Jim

Hello Jim,
Long time watcher of this forum but finally registered.
It sounds like your timing is off. There should be a stator key that may be partially sheared causing the spark but at wrong timing.
Just wondering if you check that.

Jul 6, 2024#167

J

JimP2014

I got the flywheel to 100 ft lb. I put everything back. I noticed there might be a problem with the threading for the spark plug hole but I found a spot where it actually can tighten okay but any further it would go back into being loose. But having said that the link above is the machine running and as il mentioned engine that is I need to put all the housing and all that back on but the temperature after maybe a couple minutes was like almost 800° f and I'm not sure if that's going to be an issue even with the the engine housing back in place.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#168

J

JimP2014

emartin1951 said:
Hello Jim,
Long time watcher of this forum but finally registered.
It sounds like your timing is off. There should be a stator key that may be partially sheared causing the spark but at wrong timing.
Just wondering if you check that.

When you say stator key, do you mean flywheel key? I know that right now has been torquing down to 100 ft lb and I just made a video of it running bare Bones, no blades running, no housing on the engine. Just does it run and so far it runs without any blades turning and I'm not sure for how long it will run. If just by getting hot it will shut off on its own. I'm not even there yet

Jul 6, 2024#169

Z

Zedo

JimP2014 said:
I'm sorry for the confusion on this. There was no intention to ever run the flywheel without a flywheel key. I was talking about what the purpose of it is. I would never run a flywheel without a flywheel key

That tapered crankshaft where the flywheel goes on is also tapered however I never seen a shaft that was chewed up like that apparently the key sheared and the flywheel was spinning on the shaft,(out of time ) that's when the engine would of shut down immediately. I've seen the key shear many times ( from hitting something ) rock, tree stump, curb, etc. and the slot that lines up with key has moved just a tad ( maybe a 64th of an inch , doesnt take much and the engine would run like crap, sometimes never start. I have a Kohler 22 HP and the key on mine is only 1/4 in square and an inch long. You can buy keys at any Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware . I keep a few on stock, I bought 4 in pack for 3 bucks , Briggs doesnt make a magical key, they are all the same material and are very soft for a reason, to shear when you hit something instead of bending the crank.

Jul 6, 2024#170

I

IronTom

How old is this clunker ? Once the spark plug hole is 'stripped', the threads will no longer mesh with the spark plug. You must purchase a new head & head gasket.
Don't waste your time & $$$ with doo-dads to 'fix' the stripped threads.
Now is the time to wire-brush the black carbon buildup off the piston & valves.
Carbon buildup causes 'miss-fires'. A miss-firing engine is soon-to-be-junk.
The old-boys call them a "clunker".

Jul 6, 2024#171

J

JimP2014

Okay this is a video with everything back I did not engage the blades. It started to do some hunting and surging and the engine runs about 770° f so it still doesn't seem right. I could take it out. Cut a little bit of grass and then it just shuts down. Maybe I got to do that. I think that would probably happen.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#172

J

JimP2014

IronTom said:
How old is this clunker ? Once the spark plug hole is 'stripped', the threads will no longer mesh with the spark plug. You must purchase a new head & head gasket.
Don't waste your time & $$$ with doo-dads to 'fix' the stripped threads.
Now is the time to wire-brush the black carbon buildup off the piston & valves.
Carbon buildup causes 'miss-fires'. A miss-firing engine is soon-to-be-junk.
The old-boys call them a "clunker".

Okay, thanks for the tip on that. You know obviously comes down to 2200 bucks versus will a couple hundred dollars say $300 total? Will that? This is the way I'm proceeding. I can only tell you about 10 years ago I had a Briggs& Stratton with a cracked cylinder wall. I used JB weld on it and it actually ran and had compression which should not have worked I think.
Jim

Jul 6, 2024#173

J

jcworks

JimP2014 said:
In the last two weeks I've done many things, but in the meantime the current problem is this definitely getting spark to the spark plug after spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake while turning the key. The only thing that happens is backfire through the carburetor or popping the engine refuses to start. The only thing I can think of is the spark plug is definitely working, so I'm wondering if there's some kill switch that allows for the flywheel to rotate where it seems everything will start and engage flywheel and the engine. But at the very last second a kill switch shuts off everything and prevents it from starting. So in other words, I'm looking at carburetor problem but maybe I should be looking for some kill switch that's shorting out everything. It's as if all systems are go but at the last second this kill switch is preventing the engine from starting I wonder if anyone is familiar with this situation before. Also, the fuel solenoid definitely clicks when you turn the key but the carburetor cleaner going into the intake. Even if there's a kill switch situation on going, I would think the engine would start up for a couple seconds. I don't think a kill switch, even if active could prevent the engine from starting for at least a second or two, but that's what it seems like is happening.

Jim

Read this knowing I'm not a mower mechanic. However, since the plug is sparking you know its not electrical. The carb cleaner makes it try to start but it won't continue running. This tells me its fuel related. When you spray the carb cleaner in don't spray a lot. Just a brief hit. Its likely backfiring because of too much spray. I have used starter fluid for this purpose if my machine sets up over the winter. It helps. I would say you need to have that carb cleaned by someone who really knows about your engine or put a new carb kit in it. WHOA....770 degrees F? Are you sure? That seems way way to high to me.

Jul 6, 2024#174

D

dwzkd

Dumb question here, but is it possible the ignition coil is on upside down? There is an up/down or in/out on the coil. This will screw up timing. It may not even run, depending on model.... OEM Coils are usually marked. Another thing I noticed on the parts warehouse link you included is there are three different coils for this engine. You would need to know the date code of your engine to be sure you have the correct coil if you replaced it.

Jul 6, 2024#175

S

STEVES

JimP2014 said:
Just to be clear, I bought all kinds of new components. I would swap the new one in. I swapped the old one out. I swapped the old one back in. I swapped the new one in. It doesn't matter like all the old components are fine from what I gather

JimP2014 said:
Hello Forest, I'm waiting right now as we speak for a flywheel puller because I can't get the flywheel off and I'm not going to try and pry it anymore. So before I decide to take the flywheel off, the engine starts right up. That's not even an issue and then it starts going into loud explosions. I think coming out of the exhaust I messed around with the timing. Or should I say the valve clearance maybe 10 times? I have replaced the ignition coil. I've gone back to the old ignition coil. I have replaced the spark plug. I've gone back to the old spark plug. It's rc 12yc I bought a new carburetor. I use that I'm going back to the old carburetor thoroughly cleaned out the gas tank. The strain new gas going into it bought a new fuel filter and like I said loud explosions coming out of the exhaust. I've also fixed the valve cover with red high temperature sealant that is holding the electronic fuel solenoid works. At least it clicks. I don't know what happens when it's running. This is where the project is at so my goal is to put a new flywheel key on and hopefully it runs smoothly. Also it has sounded very tinny like something's wrong but I'm not a mechanic so whatever I hear it's not with someone else could point to and say yeah I know what that is because I don't know.

Jim

Read most of posts, you said you adjusted valves & think you were talking about top dead center on another mentioning valves. Valves are adjusted cold (70*) with piston heading down about 1/4" past TDC on the power stroke.

Jul 6, 2024#176

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Dumb question here, but is it possible the ignition coil is on upside down? There is an up/down or in/out on the coil. This will screw up timing. It may not even run, depending on model.... OEM Coils are usually marked. Another thing I noticed on the parts warehouse link you included is there are three different coils for this engine. You would need to know the date code of your engine to be sure you have the correct coil if you replaced it.

Thanks for this message. I can put the the original ignition coil back on there. Probably wasn't anything wrong with it. I just figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace it. Actually a couple strands of wire were frayed up near the electronics of the ignition coil. That's why I replaced it in the first place. But I absolutely will think about this. I did replace it with something other than the original Briggs& Stratton ignition coil, but like I said I still have that.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#177

J

JimP2014

STEVES said:
Read most of posts, you said you adjusted valves & think you were talking about top dead center on another mentioning valves. Valves are adjusted cold (70*) with piston heading down about 1/4" past TDC on the power stroke.

Honestly, I've watched many videos on adjusting the valves and since I've spent so much time with this, the technique I like to use is where you send one push rod into the engine as far as it can go and watch that rocker arm. And when you know it's pretty much as far as it can go. You adjust the other valve and you do that twice. That's the technique I've used for a few years. And what you're describing is the official technique. I do realize that and now I have a spark plug problem with the cylinder head. So anything that can cut down on messing around with things I will use and the technique I described is the way I go about the problem. And actually, if you rotate the flywheel after you get done, you will see that you end up with say 4,000 on the intake and 8,000 on the exhaust and that's what I wanted. I don't see how this could be wrong

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#178

J

JimP2014

jcworks said:
Read this knowing I'm not a mower mechanic. However, since the plug is sparking you know its not electrical. The carb cleaner makes it try to start but it won't continue running. This tells me its fuel related. When you spray the carb cleaner in don't spray a lot. Just a brief hit. Its likely backfiring because of too much spray. I have used starter fluid for this purpose if my machine sets up over the winter. It helps. I would say you need to have that carb cleaned by someone who really knows about your engine or put a new carb kit in it. WHOA....770 degrees F? Are you sure? That seems way way to high to me.

I am sorry I was using carburetor cleaner. I can tell you that the most recent startup was without carburetor cleaner because everything was put back on the engine including the housing and it can't start without carburetor cleaner. I just wanted to make it easier for whatever is going on with the carburetor cleaner but it can start without it.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#179

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I am sorry I was using carburetor cleaner. I can tell you that the most recent startup was without carburetor cleaner because everything was put back on the engine including the housing and it can't start without carburetor cleaner. I just wanted to make it easier for whatever is going on with the carburetor cleaner but it can start without it.

Jim

It starts up perfectly fine without carburetor cleaner is what I was trying to say

Jul 6, 2024#180

F

Forest#2

You are running that engine too long without the fan and shroud.
From cold start up the engine should not be run over 15 seconds.

You need to stop playing with it until you get a cooling fan on it. If you need to run it longer than 15 seconds install the shroud. You say you don't want to spend any money on a plastic fan.
If you want to keep on playing with it at least go to a small engine salvage and buy a junk engine for parts.

That piston if not already happened is going to expand as it gets hot and swell into the cylinder wall and severe scoreing will result.

I'm surprised that it has not shelled out already.

Jul 6, 2024#181

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Dumb question here, but is it possible the ignition coil is on upside down? There is an up/down or in/out on the coil. This will screw up timing. It may not even run, depending on model.... OEM Coils are usually marked. Another thing I noticed on the parts warehouse link you included is there are three different coils for this engine. You would need to know the date code of your engine to be sure you have the correct coil if you replaced it.

I have to put the original coil back on and this is a good point you make. Honestly, I don't think it'll make any difference but I absolutely will put the old coil back on.

Jul 6, 2024#182

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
You are running that engine too long without the fan and shroud.
From cold start up the engine should not be run over 15 seconds.

You need to stop playing with it until you get a cooling fan on it. If you need to run it longer than 15 seconds install the shroud. You say you don't want to spend any money on a plastic fan.
If you want to keep on playing with it at least go to a small engine salvage and buy a junk engine for parts.

That piston if not already happened is going to expand as it gets hot and swell into the cylinder wall and severe scoreing will result.

I'm surprised that it has not

Forest#2 said:
You are running that engine too long without the fan and shroud.
From cold start up the engine should not be run over 15 seconds.

You need to stop playing with it until you get a cooling fan on it. If you need to run it longer than 15 seconds install the shroud. You say you don't want to spend any money on a plastic fan.
If you want to keep on playing with it at least go to a small engine salvage and buy a junk engine for parts.

That piston if not already happened is going to expand as it gets hot and swell into the cylinder wall and severe scoreing will result.

I'm surprised that it has not shelled

Forest#2 said:
You are running that engine too long without the fan and shroud.
From cold start up the engine should not be run over 15 seconds.

You need to stop playing with it until you get a cooling fan on it. If you need to run it longer than 15 seconds install the shroud. You say you don't want to spend any money on a plastic fan.
If you want to keep on playing with it at least go to a small engine salvage and buy a junk engine for parts.

That piston if not already happened is going to expand as it gets hot and swell into the cylinder wall and severe scoreing will result.

I'm surprised that it has not shelled out already.

Forest, thanks for the heads up on this. Even with everything put back in a partially broken flywheel fan which recently broke and I have no clue why. But the point is what you're saying makes a lot of sense about the fan and go to a place that has old engines before anything else. I do appreciate this post. And just for the record, with everything put back, it is hunting and surging and that might be a carburetor I'm hoping but the temperature is still 770° f

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#183

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest, thanks for the heads up on this. Even with everything put back in a partially broken flywheel fan which recently broke and I have no clue why. But the point is what you're saying makes a lot of sense about the fan and go to a place that has old engines before anything else. I do appreciate this post. And just for the record, with everything put back, it is hunting and surging and that might be a carburetor I'm hoping but the temperature is still 770° f

Jim

Forest, I did take a look at that flywheel fan. I was looking for some numbers or letters and there is nothing except the Briggs& Stratton logo put. The one I have has two dimples on the bottom and I can buy like three parts and be sure I got the correct plastic fan but I am trying to figure out that part isolated what the number is for it because it's like half the cost and that's all I really need.

Jul 6, 2024#184

B

birddog2790

JimP2014 said:
https://www.partswarehouse.com/31P677-3373-G2-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235041.htm

Thank you very much for your assessment. That makes a lot of sense, especially the part about. Well, if the spark is at the spark plug then you can just rest assure it has nothing to do with all that safety stuff that is key. But beyond that, what you mentioned about compression and the other stuff is what I suppose I need to look at. I can only say that maybe 10 days ago there was an awful banging going on every time there was a rotation of the flywheel and I wonder if eventually that broke something don't know. But again I appreciate your help.

Jim

My guess, for what it's worth, TIMING!
Lee

Jul 6, 2024#185

D

DABS

JimP2014 said:
I just read in some other form. This sounds kind of like what's going on with my riding mower.

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/outdoor-gasoline-electric-powered-equipment-small-engines/352247-briggs-stratton-wont-start-but-has-spark.html

Except he finds out there's a bent push rod or a broken push rod and then everything's fine. I have no broken push rod and the push rods are perfect.

So I might just take off the flywheel pretend it's broken and put a new flywheel key in and try again for timing issue

Jim

birddog2790 said:
My guess, for what it's worth, TIMING!
Lee

I’m guessing governor gear and bent crank

Jul 6, 2024#186

S

SamB

JimP2014 said:
Forest, I did take a look at that flywheel fan. I was looking for some numbers or letters and there is nothing except the Briggs& Stratton logo put. The one I have has two dimples on the bottom and I can buy like three parts and be sure I got the correct plastic fan but I am trying to figure out that part isolated what the number is for it because it's like half the cost and that's all I really need.

There is a lot of advice flying around here, so I'll only post about your fan. The dimples are a cost cutting measure and those dimples go into the flywheel bolt holes where a bolted on fan's bolts would go. Dimpled fans are held on by the flywheel nut On some engines, the fan screen is also under the flywheel nut. On all 4 of my single cylinder Briggs engines, the fan blades are connected on top with a reinforcing ring that looks like this would prevent breaking.
This is a link to a seller on eBay that I have dealt with and had good outcomes at all the sales. This is a bolt-on fan that does not have to remove the flywheel to put on. just two bolts in the puller holes in the flywheel.

Briggs and Stratton OHV Engine Model 31F707 Fan Free Shipping | eBay

Briggs and Stratton OHV Engine Model 31F707 Fan Free Shipping. Condition is Used. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail.

www.ebay.com

Jul 6, 2024#187

J

JimP2014

I just went back outside at 3:15 p.m. I am keeping in mind running this even with everything back in place for under say 20 seconds. I can say it started right up. It sounds like the engine's strong and a lot of hunting and surging. So in a couple seconds that I had, I started messing around with the fuel air mixer screw. Apparently from what I read hunting and surging as a result of the engine running lean. So I've been trying to adjust it by turning the screw clockwise which makes the fuel there mixture screw close up the tiny hole which means less air more fuel but I then shut it off. The spark plug hole is stripped but I am trying to figure out if most of the engine is good which means get another cylinder head. Get another flywheel fan. Get another ignition coil brand new Briggs& Stratton type but if right now the only thing I can see for sure is hunting and surging with a strong engine. Would most folks keep going or get a new riding mower?

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 6, 2024#188

J

JimP2014

SamB said:
There is a lot of advice flying around here,so I'll only post about your fan. The dimples are a cost cutting measure and those dimples go into the flywheel bolt holes where a bolted on fan's bolts would go. Dimpled fans are held on by the flywheel nit.

Right on that. The part I'm looking at off the top of my head is Briggs& Stratton 796201. I think that's what it is

JimP2014 said:
I just went back outside at 3:15 p.m. I am keeping in mind running this even with everything back in place for under say 20 seconds. I can say it started right up. It sounds like the engine's strong and a lot of hunting and surging. So in a couple seconds that I had, I started messing around with the fuel air mixer screw. Apparently from what I read hunting and surging as a result of the engine running lean. So I've been trying to adjust it by turning the screw clockwise which makes the fuel there mixture screw close up the tiny hole which means less air more fuel but I then shut it off. The spark plug hole is stripped but I am trying to figure out if most of the engine is good which means get another cylinder head. Get another flywheel fan. Get another ignition coil brand new Briggs& Stratton type but if right now the only thing I can see for sure is hunting and surging with a strong engine. Would most folks keep going or get a new riding mower?

Thanks,
Jim

I lost the post but someone was telling me about the flywheel fan and I could say the part that I need is Briggs& Stratton 796201 and that's everything but I only need the plastic piece but if I have to purchase the 796201 I will. I just have to know if it's the right thing to do like this engine is salvageable and I'm very close and like I just said it starts right up. Seems like it has power. It's just wild hunting and surging and maybe just a fuel air mixture screw but it does need a cylinder head to fix the spark plug problem

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#189

J

JimP2014

This is from 5:15 p.m. July 6th so the engine starts. Right up and at least I guess I only contend with one variable now hunting and surging. It sounds like the carburetor so I put the fuel mixer screw in all the way and then I backed it out about one turn and every 30 minutes or so I back it out about another quarter turn. So right now it's that 1.5 turns from completely tight

This is not typical for me to spend this much time with a fuel, air mixer, screw or probably anyone else. But the link I provided is basically how it's running and only for about 15 or 20 seconds and then I shut it down. The other issue is couple weeks ago and I mentioned that I was cutting the lawn and it shut down well. The other thing that happened at the same time was the weld for the exhaust pipe to the muffler came undone. So right now it's just the exhaust pipe that's in place. And again I'm trying to figure out is this salvageable am I very close to solving the problem with this engine or is there something seriously wrong with it that this engine is garbage? I mean with just hunting and surging you might conclude you're only 5 minutes away from fixing this thing. I'm just wondering if the whole thing is destroyed somehow and the only real symptom is hunting and surging?

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 6, 2024#190

G

gregjo1948

JimP2014 said:
In the last two weeks I've done many things, but in the meantime the current problem is this definitely getting spark to the spark plug after spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake while turning the key. The only thing that happens is backfire through the carburetor or popping the engine refuses to start. The only thing I can think of is the spark plug is definitely working, so I'm wondering if there's some kill switch that allows for the flywheel to rotate where it seems everything will start and engage flywheel and the engine. But at the very last second a kill switch shuts off everything and prevents it from starting. So in other words, I'm looking at carburetor problem but maybe I should be looking for some kill switch that's shorting out everything. It's as if all systems are go but at the last second this kill switch is preventing the engine from starting I wonder if anyone is familiar with this situation before. Also, the fuel solenoid definitely clicks when you turn the key but the carburetor cleaner going into the intake. Even if there's a kill switch situation on going, I would think the engine would start up for a couple seconds. I don't think a kill switch, even if active could prevent the engine from starting for at least a second or two, but that's what it seems like is happening.

Jim

Stop spraying carb cleaner into it. It doesn't burn well. Try spraying starting fluid. I doubt that it has a kill switch. There is probably an ignition switch somewhere on it. It probably is the switch you're turning to crank it over. To test the compression, remove the sparkplug, stick a finger or thumb over the sparkplug hole and crank the engine over. If it has compression, it will push your finger/thumb away from the hole.

Jul 6, 2024#191

J

JimP2014

gregjo1948 said:
Stop spraying carb cleaner into it. It doesn't burn well. Try spraying starting fluid. I doubt that it has a kill switch. There is probably an ignition switch somewhere on it. It probably is the switch you're turning to crank it over. To test the compression, remove the sparkplug, stick a finger or thumb over the sparkplug hole and crank the engine over. If it has compression, it will push your finger/thumb away from the hole.

Hello I bought a compression testing kit and although one of the fittings did not fit perfectly with a spark plug hole, there is an adapter that makes a pretty good fit and the compression was 86 psi.

I stopped using the carburetor cleaner. The only reason I mainly did that is so I wouldn't have to keep recharging the battery every couple hours but now it starts right up. After that it goes into the hunting and surging.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#192

A

Affordable in Indy

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. If the engine was cranking and just popping and backfiring when you sprayed carb cleaner into the air intake, that sounds like a valve problem. You might have a bent push rod or valve lashing way out of wack. Take the rocker cover(s) off and see what's happening in there.

Jul 6, 2024#193

J

JimP2014

Affordable in Indy said:
I think you're barking up the wrong tree. If the engine was cranking and just popping and backfiring when you sprayed carb cleaner into the air intake, that sounds like a valve problem. You might have a bent push rod or valve lashing way out of wack. Take the rocker cover(s) off and see what's happening in there.

I absolutely can do this tomorrow just to at least make sure the valve clearances are correct. The push rods are not bent. The post that the rocker arms sit on are solid against the plate and anything else that I find that might be unusual, but that's a good suggestion.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#194

W

WeldGuy

BTW... "Won't turn over" means there's no rotation.
"Won't start" seems a better description of your problem.

Jul 6, 2024#195

Fish

One think to look at, with the valve cover off, rotate the engine by hand and watch the movement of the rocker arms. Make sure that they travel the same distance up and down.

Jul 6, 2024#196

D

DABS

Jim, replacing the fan with another one may end up with the same result. Engine working at full rev may have lost the governor gear and overreving the engine which can bend the crankshaft, break fins off the fan, shear the key, and damage the windings under the flywheel leaving copper shavings, overheat the engine and maybe bent the pushrod. You may be chasing results rather than finding the cause?

Jul 6, 2024#197

D

dwzkd

Did you ever get the engine model and date code? It should be stamped into the valve cover. If hard to read, get some "grime" on your finger and rub it across it. The grime will fill in the letters and give you contrast. Also can take a photo of it, if hard to read.

There are several parts (fan included) that require the date code to get the correct fan.

Since your exhaust is getting superhot, it seems you are running lean... Popping and sputtering could be an ignition issue on top of this. One thing I have seen is the ignition switch (or connections) going bad and intermittently killing the coil.

Spark related, I would pull the plug and short the metal base of the plug to the engine, then crank it. If you get spark your ignition system works to provide spark. Since it starts, this is probably ok. To rule out other issues "killing" spark intermittently, pull the kill wire from the coil (you will have to remove the air cover). Start it and see if it runs ok. If so, then something is killing the coil (ign switch, safety switches etc.). NOTE: I have seen spark look "ok" with a spark checker and have this issue. You could kind of see the spark "stutter" but it was still sparking. You can kill the engine by pulling the plug wire (using insulated pliers) or short the coil kill terminal to the frame of the coil with a screwdriver. If the engine continues to run rough with the kill wire removed, then the only spark related issue can be timing related.

Timing related spark issues would be (1) sheared flywheel key; (2) Coil upside down; (3) coil gap to magnet on flywheel; (4) wrong or bad parts (coil, flywheel, plug, plug wire); (5) if your insulation on the plug wire is weak, cracked or chewed by mice, the spark signal can be messed up as it will jump the air gap to the engine block (this will cause missing);

I suggest, going through systematically to verify each (spark, fuel, air, compression, valve lash; etc.) one system at a time.

As for running lean; Check air flow; make sure you don't have any air drawing in the system between carburetor and engine; (i.e. check the gasket between the carburetor and the engine; make sure the bolts are tight). You can also spray carb cleaner; or similar at the gasket point while the engine is running (make sure it doesn't enter the front of the carburetor though)... If it starts to run smoothly when you squirt it with carb cleaner (and it is not going into the front of the carb), then you have an air leak between the carb and engine. Also check the throttle and choke shafts where they enter the carburetor. If these are worn, you can get air leaking in there. Also check to make sure your throttle/choke plates are securely attached to the shafts (by looking into the input side of the carburetor)

Another test for running lean, is to move the choke to slowly towards the closed position and see if it starts to run smoothly.

Others may be able to chime in similar tests, but I would suggest going through systematically and prove out each system.

Jul 6, 2024#198

J

JimP2014

Fish said:
One think to look at, with the valve cover off, rotate the engine by hand and watch the movement of the rocker arms. Make sure that they travel the same distance up and down.

I actually did this maybe 5 days ago and I came up with a distance of travel of 1 cm approximately for each valve and another member of this forum computed the same thing for his machine. If the 1 cm difference seems wrong then I have the units right here in my description wrong. But whatever I did for the test, the other person in this form did the same test and came up with the same results is what I'm trying to say.

Jul 6, 2024#199

J

JimP2014

WeldGuy said:
BTW... "Won't turn over" means there's no rotation.
"Won't start" seems a better description of your problem.

I see what you're saying and that was definitely a mistake on my part as far as describing the problem. But the fact is the flywheel was rotating and nothing else was happening. And at the time the reason why that was true is because of flywheel key was sheered and that was fixed and as of July 6th around 5:00 p.m. starts up perfectly and then it hunts and surges.

Jim

Jul 6, 2024#200

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Did you ever get the engine model and date code? It should be stamped into the valve cover. If hard to read, get some "grime" on your finger and rub it across it. The grime will fill in the letters and give you contrast. Also can take a photo of it, if hard to read.

There are several parts (fan included) that require the date code to get the correct fan.

DABS said:
Jim, replacing the fan with another one may end up with the same result. Engine working at full rev may have lost the governor gear and overreving the engine which can bend the crankshaft, break fins off the fan, shear the key, and damage the windings under the flywheel leaving copper shavings, overheat the engine and maybe bent the pushrod. You may be chasing results rather than finding the cause?

I actually was thinking this just about the fan that even if I get all the fins I'm still going to end up with around 700° f. But like you're saying regarding the governor, since the component is inside and I'm not an engine expert wouldn't I would not know this if this is broken or not. If something is broken on the outside of the engine I could clearly see that. But I will look at this tomorrow and see if all the symptoms that the sentient exhibited add up to a governor issue. Although I can say I did try and adjust it maybe 10 days ago and it seemed like I said it correctly or I should say it was set correctly and I didn't do anything more than loosen up a nut and then tighten it back up

Jul 6, 2024#201

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I actually was thinking this just about the fan that even if I get all the fins I'm still going to end up with around 700° f. But like you're saying regarding the governor, since the component is inside and I'm not an engine expert wouldn't I would not know this if this is broken or not. If something is broken on the outside of the engine I could clearly see that. But I will look at this tomorrow and see if all the symptoms that the sentient exhibited add up to a governor issue. Although I can say I did try and adjust it maybe 10 days ago and it seemed like I said it correctly or I should say it was set correctly and I didn't do anything more than loosen up a nut and then tighten it back up

But the weird thing is maybe 5 days ago it was running very smooth. Everything seems smooth and the engine temperature was about 450° Fahrenheit. Maybe 500° and then something happened then and then it went back up to 800° f

Jul 6, 2024#202

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Did you ever get the engine model and date code? It should be stamped into the valve cover. If hard to read, get some "grime" on your finger and rub it across it. The grime will fill in the letters and give you contrast. Also can take a photo of it, if hard to read.

There are several parts (fan included) that require the date code to get the correct fan.

Since your exhaust is getting superhot, it seems you are running lean... Popping and sputtering could be an ignition issue on top of this. One thing I have seen is the ignition switch (or connections) going bad and intermittently killing the coil.

Spark related, I would pull the plug and short the metal base of the plug to the engine, then crank it. If you get spark your ignition system works to provide spark. Since it starts, this is probably ok. To rule out other issues "killing" spark intermittently, pull the kill wire from the coil (you will have to remove the air cover). Start it and see if it runs ok. If so, then something is killing the coil (ign switch, safety switches etc.). NOTE: I have seen spark look "ok" with a spark checker and have this issue. You could kind of see the spark "stutter" but it was still sparking. You can kill the engine by pulling the plug wire (using insulated pliers) or short the coil kill terminal to the frame of the coil with a screwdriver. If the engine continues to run rough with the kill wire removed, then the only spark related issue can be timing related.

Timing related spark issues would be (1) sheared flywheel key; (2) Coil upside down; (3) coil gap to magnet on flywheel; (4) wrong or bad parts (coil, flywheel, plug, plug wire); (5) if your insulation on the plug wire is weak, cracked or chewed by mice, the spark signal can be messed up as it will jump the air gap to the engine block (this will cause missing);

I suggest, going through systematically to verify each (spark, fuel, air, compression, valve lash; etc.) one system at a time.

As for running lean; Check air flow; make sure you don't have any air drawing in the system between carburetor and engine; (i.e. check the gasket between the carburetor and the engine; make sure the bolts are tight). You can also spray carb cleaner; or similar at the gasket point while the engine is running (make sure it doesn't enter the front of the carburetor though)... If it starts to run smoothly when you squirt it with carb cleaner (and it is not going into the front of the carb), then you have an air leak between the carb and engine. Also check the throttle and choke shafts where they enter the carburetor. If these are worn, you can get air leaking in there. Also check to make sure your throttle/choke plates are securely attached to the shafts (by looking into the input side of the carburetor)

Another test for running lean, is to move the choke to slowly towards the closed position and see if it starts to run smoothly.

Others may be able to chime in similar tests, but I would suggest going through systematically and prove out each system.

It's late at night, but it seems like you have a pretty exhaustive list of things to look at. And I absolutely will read it tomorrow morning. But I've included the engine code and it's just so hard to read and I'm pretty sure this is the best photo which is cropped that I have

Jim made

Jul 6, 2024#203

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69143

It's late at night, but it seems like you have a pretty exhaustive list of things to look at. And I absolutely will read it tomorrow morning. But I've included the engine code and it's just so hard to read and I'm pretty sure this is the best photo which is cropped that I have

Jim made

I started to take a look at what you wrote and I absolutely will remove the kill wire because right now it starts right up it hunts and surges and the temperature gets up to about 800° f ine. I didn't know at the time what the purpose of removing the kill wire was, but now I know and I can actually shut it down manually or an easier way is just to move the throttle to the lowest position and it will stall out I'm sure.

Jul 6, 2024#204

D

dwzkd

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69143

It's late at night, but it seems like you have a pretty exhaustive list of things to look at. And I absolutely will read it tomorrow morning. But I've included the engine code and it's just so hard to read and I'm pretty sure this is the best photo which is cropped that I have

Jim made

This is a good enough photo....

31P677-0804-B1 090130??

The last two digits are harder to make out but it looks like 7D or ZD... These will not likely matter much.

Jul 6, 2024#205

D

DABS

JimP2014 said:
I actually was thinking this just about the fan that even if I get all the fins I'm still going to end up with around 700° f. But like you're saying regarding the governor, since the component is inside and I'm not an engine expert wouldn't I would not know this if this is broken or not. If something is broken on the outside of the engine I could clearly see that. But I will look at this tomorrow and see if all the symptoms that the sentient exhibited add up to a governor issue. Although I can say I did try and adjust it maybe 10 days ago and it seemed like I said it correctly or I should say it was set correctly and I didn't do anything more than loosen up a nut and then tighten it back up

Just food for thought. I happen to have one in here with the same issues and once I took the pan off pieces of the governor were everywhere. Aluminum pushrod on the intake was also bent as the heat allowed the valve guides to move. Yours may be different but a magnetic dial indicator could tell the story.

Jul 7, 2024#206

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
This is a good enough photo....

31P677-0804-B1 090130??

The last two digits are harder to make out but it looks like 7D or ZD... These will not likely matter much.

https://www.partswarehouse.com/31P677-3373-G2-Briggs-and-Stratton-Engine-s/235041.htm

I have been using the above website link for the engine and this goes back like 3 years or more.

I also considered trying to use steel wool on the parts I couldn't read and then I was thinking maybe I just erase everything so I did not attempt that.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#207

J

JimP2014

DABS said:
Just food for thought. I happen to have one in here with the same issues and once I took the pan off pieces of the governor were everywhere. Aluminum pushrod on the intake was also bent as the heat allowed the valve guides to move. Yours may be different but a magnetic dial indicator could tell the story.

I have never heard of a magnetic dial indicator. I will look that up later and its usage. But one thing I was messing around with few weeks ago is trying to figure out if some of the safety features were screwing up the engine and then since I had constant spark I thought no issue with the safety features, but just tonight the idea of disconnecting the kill switch off the ignition coil seems pretty simple to do and could have a major impact on this hunting and surging. So so I absolutely will do that first and foremost tomorrow and see if it makes any change with this hunting and surging issue. I don't think you originally said that, but either way I'm putting it out right here and I hope it's just that simple.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#208

D

DABS

JimP2014 said:
I have never heard of a magnetic dial indicator. I will look that up later and its usage. But one thing I was messing around with few weeks ago is trying to figure out if some of the safety features were screwing up the engine and then since I had constant spark I thought no issue with the safety features, but just tonight the idea of disconnecting the kill switch off the ignition coil seems pretty simple to do and could have a major impact on this hunting and surging. So so I absolutely will do that first and foremost tomorrow and see if it makes any change with this hunting and surging issue. I don't think you originally said that, but either way I'm putting it out right here and I hope it's just that simple.

Jim

Best of luck to you

Jul 7, 2024#209

D

dwzkd

To check for Governor issues. hold the throttle shaft (at the carburetor) against the throttle set screw (low idle), then start engine. If you are seeing hunting at low idle (without holding the throttle shaft) then you should be able to just hold the throttle shaft against the set screw. Otherwise, slowly rotate the throttle shaft to increase speed. You should be able to hold it steady and achieve a stable speed (without hunting) if it is a governor issue. NOTE: be careful with this test as you can easily overspeed the engine if you move the throttle too fast and hold it at a high position. If it is not a governor issue, you will still see hunting if you hold the throttle shaft steady.

Jul 7, 2024#210

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
To check for Governor issues. hold the throttle shaft (at the carburetor) against the throttle set screw (low idle), then start engine. If you are seeing hunting at low idle (without holding the throttle shaft) then you should be able to just hold the throttle shaft against the set screw. Otherwise, slowly rotate the throttle shaft to increase speed. You should be able to hold it steady and achieve a stable speed (without hunting) if it is a governor issue. NOTE: be careful with this test as you can easily overspeed the engine if you move the throttle too fast and hold it at a high position. If it is not a governor issue, you will still see hunting if you hold the throttle shaft steady.

Thanks for this. You did not waste words I will be checking this out.
Jim

Jul 7, 2024#211

S

STEVES

gregjo1948 said:
Stop spraying carb cleaner into it. It doesn't burn well. Try spraying starting fluid. I doubt that it has a kill switch. There is probably an ignition switch somewhere on it. It probably is the switch you're turning to crank it over. To test the compression, remove the sparkplug, stick a finger or thumb over the sparkplug hole and crank the engine over. If it has compression, it will push your finger/thumb away from the hole.

Starting fluid too explosive & can blow head gasket, use a non chlorinated Brake Clean. (Brakleen)

Jul 7, 2024#212

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I started to take a look at what you wrote and I absolutely will remove the kill wire because right now it starts right up it hunts and surges and the temperature gets up to about 800° f ine. I didn't know at the time what the purpose of removing the kill wire was, but now I know and I can actually shut it down manually or an easier way is just to move the throttle to the lowest position and it will stall out

I removed the kill wire. It was still hunting and surging and as I recall years ago I got rid of the electronic solenoid and install the shut-off switch for the fuel line. But in any case, although you don't see it, this is a video where it's running for a few minutes. It's hunting and surging and then because of the fact that the spark plug ended up cross threaded, the spark plug blew right out of the cylinder head.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#213

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I removed the kill wire. It was still hunting and surging and as I recall years ago I got rid of the electronic solenoid and install the shut-off switch for the fuel line. But in any case, although you don't see it, this is a video where it's running for a few minutes. It's hunting and surging and then because of the fact that the spark plug ended up cross threaded, the spark plug blew right out of the cylinder head.

Jim

The one test that I wanted to do with a brand new fuel solenoid was where you basically snip off the plunger inside of it to see if the hunting and surging is due to some electrical malfunction inside of the wires or something like that. I do know that with the electronic fuel solenoid connected switching the key back and forth to start the engine causes a clicking inside of fuel solenoid, which is exactly what should happen from what I am reading. But I don't know what happens while the engine is running with the electronic fuel solenoid. So I figure snipping the plunger on an extra fuel solenoid can't hurt.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#214

S

STEVES

JimP2014 said:
Thanks for this. You did not waste words I will be checking this out.
Jim

If your carb has the idle jet with limiter, the procedure is to bring idle screw down to 1,300 rpm (holding against set screw) adjust turn clockwise till slows, then turn counter clockwise till slows then set back to midpoint. Place limiter cap with half moon segment down. It is a base fuel idle adjustment, not running adjustment with governor in play.

Jul 7, 2024#215

J

JimP2014

STEVES said:
If your carb has the idle jet with limiter, the procedure is to bring idle screw down to 1,300 rpm (holding against set screw) adjust turn clockwise till slows, then turn counter clockwise till slows then set back to midpoint. Place limiter cap with half moon segment down. It is a base fuel idle adjustment, not running adjustment with governor in play.

Steve, what happened was I went outside. I removed the kill wire it ran for maybe a minute. Still hunting and surging and because I crossed threaded at the spark plug a couple days ago, it blew the spark plug right out of the spark plug hole in the cylinder head. So right now I'm not sure what I want to do next. But at some point I'd like to remove the plunger from an electronic solenoid and just the fuel shut off valve to stop the fuel into the carburetor when I need to stop it. Since I still don't know exactly what's going on, I'm wondering whether I should spend more money on a brand new cylinder head? But I still see all the additional texts you provided and I can refer back to this.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#216

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Steve, what happened was I went outside. I removed the kill wire it ran for maybe a minute. Still hunting and surging and because I crossed threaded at the spark plug a couple days ago, it blew the spark plug right out of the spark plug hole in the cylinder head. So right now I'm not sure what I want to do next. But at some point I'd like to remove the plunger from an electronic solenoid and just the fuel shut off valve to stop the fuel into the carburetor when I need to stop it. Since I still don't know exactly what's going on, I'm wondering whether I should spend more money on a brand new cylinder head? But I still see all the additional texts you provided and I can refer back to this.

Jim

I decided that I'm going to use J-B weld on the spark plug. The reason being is the cylinder head is garbage at this point and I only want to see if having a spark plug even for a few hours to remain in the cylinder head if I can stop the hunting and surging and at this point since I removed the kill wire the only other thing that has not been done is to remove the electronic fuel solenoid by snipping that plunger and using the fuel shut off valve which is already there. I don't think I would ever use J-B weld on a spark plug as a permanent solution, but it doesn't cost anything. It might hold for a few hours and then I could see if the hunting and surging can be stopped. I don't see fixing anything internal. I have no skill in that and I don't want anybody else to even do it.

Maybe somebody who sees these things quite often can comment on what I plan on doing to figure out the hunting and surging problem.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 7, 2024#217

B

billroy1

JimP2014 said:
In the last two weeks I've done many things, but in the meantime the current problem is this definitely getting spark to the spark plug after spraying carburetor cleaner into the intake while turning the key. The only thing that happens is backfire through the carburetor or popping the engine refuses to start. The only thing I can think of is the spark plug is definitely working, so I'm wondering if there's some kill switch that allows for the flywheel to rotate where it seems everything will start and engage flywheel and the engine. But at the very last second a kill switch shuts off everything and prevents it from starting. So in other words, I'm looking at carburetor problem but maybe I should be looking for some kill switch that's shorting out everything. It's as if all systems are go but at the last second this kill switch is preventing the engine from starting I wonder if anyone is familiar with this situation before. Also, the fuel solenoid definitely clicks when you turn the key but the carburetor cleaner going into the intake. Even if there's a kill switch situation on going, I would think the engine would start up for a couple seconds. I don't think a kill switch, even if active could prevent the engine from starting for at least a second or two, but that's what it seems like is happening.

Jim

Jim,
You seem to be thinking out loud (which is fine) but We really need to get this thing running first. I would like to learn more about this awful Banging mentioned in the beginning, can you describe in a little more detail what you herd could it have been a back fire?. I say this because when I spray Carb cleaner into my engine when it is running It acts just like a kill switch, it tries to stall out when it is running and I try to use short burst of spray. I even herd a Backfire one time I sprayed my Carb!

Jul 7, 2024#218

J

JimP2014

billroy1 said:
Jim,
You seem to be thinking out loud (which is fine) but We really need to get this thing running first. I would like to learn more about this awful Banging mentioned in the beginning, can you describe in a little more detail what you herd could it have been a back fire?. I say this because when I spray Carb cleaner into my engine when it is running It acts just like a kill switch, it tries to stall out when it is running and I try to use short burst of spray. I even herd a Backfire one time I sprayed my Carb!

There absolutely was this banging noise and I have been trying to get this thing going for several weeks. There have been many different things going on at different times. What I can say right now is there is no banging. From what I can tell, there is hunting and surging. This morning the spark plug blew out because it was cross threaded most likely due to being removed and put back in dozens of times. I just cut the tip off the electronic solenoid fuel device. I went to start it after using J-B weld on the spark plug hole just to see what's going on and the spark plug blew out again. But I do have a 14.5 horsepower OHV engine that I no longer use that might have a compatible cylinder head which has no problems with the spark plug hole threads. I was hoping today to address the issue with the hunting and surging. The kill switch wire removal did nothing to help the problem and I was trying to focus on a problem with the electronic fuel solenoid but since the spark plug blew out I need to either swap the cylinder head off the 14.5 OHV Briggs engine or get a used one or get a new one and that's where I'm at right now.

But as far as the banging noise, it wasn't several weeks straight. It might have been a period of 4 days. I don't know but it doesn't seem like it's the problem now.

But thanks for replying and inquiring,

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#219

D

dwzkd

Hi Jim,
Do you have a tap and die set? You could try to tap the spark plug hole to the next larger size to see if you can get it to seal and hold a plug. It would require a different plug, but I can help you find a p/n for the new plug if you like.
This could give you a permanent replacement without buying a new head. NOTE: there are a number of used parts on eBay right now for this. A head is available for it but it is still $99 (new is just over $200)...

What is the engine spec number on the other OHV engine?

Jul 7, 2024#220

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Hi Jim,
Do you have a tap and die set? You could try to tap the spark plug hole to the next larger size to see if you can get it to seal and hold a plug. It would require a different plug, but I can help you find a p/n for the new plug if you like.
This could give you a permanent replacement without buying a new head. NOTE: there are a number of used parts on eBay right now for this. A head is available for it but it is still $99 (new is just over $200)...

What is the engine spec number on the other OHV engine?

Okay, I know it's a Briggs& Stratton 14.5 horsepower OHV and currently it's sitting in a bed of poison. Ivy, so what I just planned on doing was just taking the cylinder head off. There's like six bolts and seeing if it matches up with what I currently have. I can't see any further things that could go wrong.

But I was just looking up a brand new cylinder head and it's a Briggs& Stratton 796201 is the part number for the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine. So brand new. It's like maybe 200 bucks.

I plan on taking the cylinder head off the old Briggs& Stratton engine hopefully sometime today.

I don't want to mess around with tap set but thanks for thinking of that.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#221

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay, I know it's a Briggs& Stratton 14.5 horsepower OHV and currently it's sitting in a bed of poison. Ivy, so what I just planned on doing was just taking the cylinder head off. There's like six bolts and seeing if it matches up with what I currently have. I can't see any further things that could go wrong.

But I was just looking up a brand new cylinder head and it's a Briggs& Stratton 796201 is the part number for the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine. So brand new. It's like maybe 200 bucks.

I plan on taking the cylinder head off the old Briggs& Stratton engine hopefully sometime today.

I don't want to mess around with tap set but thanks for thinking of that.

Jim

796026. Is the Briggs& Stratton part number 796026

Jul 7, 2024#222

D

dwzkd

If it looks like the existing head. I should fit right on. The same head is a replacement for 28P777 which is a 14hp briggs. Check valve lash while you have it out.

Intake Valve Clearance 0.003 - 0.005 in (0.08 - 0.13 mm)
Exhaust Valve Clearance 0.005 - 0.007 in (0.13 - 0.18 mm)

Jul 7, 2024#223

D

dwzkd

Operator Manual (has specs on 9)

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/support/results/_jcr_content/par/productmanuallisting.downloadmanual.276344EST_B_LO.pdf.html

Parts Manual

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/support/results/_jcr_content/par/productmanuallisting.downloadmanual.31P6770804B1~_IPLURL_LO.pdf.html

Jul 7, 2024#224

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
If it looks like the existing head. I should fit right on. The same head is a replacement for 28P777 which is a 14hp briggs. Check valve lash while you have it out.

Intake Valve Clearance 0.003 - 0.005 in (0.08 - 0.13 mm)
Exhaust Valve Clearance 0.005 - 0.007 in (0.13 - 0.18 mm)

Someone had asked about banging noises and I completely forgot to include the link from this morning when the spark plug blew out. But but this is from this morning there is no banging. It's only hunting and surging and then the spark plug blew out of the spark plug hole. But thanks for doing the research on that. I was pretty sure that the cylinder head was identical and then you confirmed it.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#225

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Someone had asked about banging noises and I completely forgot to include the link from this morning when the spark plug blew out. But but this is from this morning there is no banging. It's only hunting and surging and then the spark plug blew out of the spark plug hole. But thanks for doing the research on that. I was pretty sure that the cylinder head was identical and then you confirmed it.

Jim

I just went down to get that cylinder head and I realized the socket I have is too small for the bolts. So I have to think about that if the head of the bolt is larger and that is it? Or is the bolt completely different and something could go wrong with the existing short block especially with the threads?

Jul 7, 2024#226

D

dwzkd

JimP2014 said:
I just went down to get that cylinder head and I realized the socket I have is too small for the bolts. So I have to think about that if the head of the bolt is larger and that is it? Or is the bolt completely different and something could go wrong with the existing short block especially with the threads?

Pull it and see. May be able to use bolts from existing engine.

Jul 7, 2024#227

B

billroy1

JimP2014 said:
Okay, I know it's a Briggs& Stratton 14.5 horsepower OHV and currently it's sitting in a bed of poison. Ivy, so what I just planned on doing was just taking the cylinder head off. There's like six bolts and seeing if it matches up with what I currently have. I can't see any further things that could go wrong.

But I was just looking up a brand new cylinder head and it's a Briggs& Stratton 796201 is the part number for the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine. So brand new. It's like maybe 200 bucks.

I plan on taking the cylinder head off the old Briggs& Stratton engine hopefully sometime today.

I don't want to mess around with tap set but thanks for thinking of that.

Jim

Hi Jim,
Now that you got this thing running I am starting to think maybe you have too much compression, I would test it again after you replace the cylinder head, Don't forget a new gasket, good luck. I cannot help you much more, I used to get poison ivy really bad so I totally avoid it now

Jul 7, 2024#228

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Someone had asked about banging noises and I completely forgot to include the link from this morning when the spark plug blew out. But but this is from this morning there is no banging. It's only hunting and surging and then the spark plug blew out of the spark plug hole. But thanks for doing the research on that. I was pretty sure that the cylinder head was identical and then you confirmed it.

Jim

I just went down to get that cylinder head and I realized the socket I have is too small for the bolts so

dwzkd said:
Pull it and see. May be able to use bolts from existing engine.

So I just removed 14.5 horsepower Briggs engine cylinder head and I rested it on top of the 19.5 horsepower Briggs engine and The old cylinder head seems to be too narrow.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#229

J

JimP2014

billroy1 said:
Hi Jim,
Now that you got this thing running I am starting to think maybe you have too much compression, I would test it again after you replace the cylinder head, Don't forget a new gasket, good luck. I cannot help you much more, I used to get poison ivy really bad so I totally avoid it now

Well right now I don't have a cylinder head and I'm not going to try rethread the existing cylinder head but I can't tell you. Maybe about 7 days ago. I was worried about no compression and I ended up with about 85 psi for compression which I believe is on the low end. The old cylinder head that I just removed from a junk riding mower is probably too small to fit on the machine that I'm currently working on.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#230

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Pull it and see. May be able to use bolts from existing engine.

I try to find my previous post how how the old cylinder had was too large but the hole pattern Is correct. So the other one just has extra metal on one side for fins so I will see how the tractor runs when I install that older cylinder head which is from a 14.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine cylinder head.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#231

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
If it looks like the existing head. I should fit right on. The same head is a replacement for 28P777 which is a 14hp briggs. Check valve lash while you have it out.

Intake Valve Clearance 0.003 - 0.005 in (0.08 - 0.13 mm)
Exhaust Valve Clearance 0.005 - 0.007 in (0.13 - 0.18 mm)

Correct. I am pretty sure it will.

Jul 7, 2024#232

F

farmerdave1954

I've been watching this thread a long time, getting in about halfway through, but going back and reading from the first post. I gotta give you credit for patience, you've stayed after this a long time, but I've also gotta give the responders credit for sticking with you this long. My personal opinion is, unless you have a sentimental attachment to this machine, you long ago passed the point where you should have given up on it, especially with your lack of mechanical skills.

Part of me wants to think you are a legitmate DIY'er, but another part makes me wonder if you are like a tech I used to have working for me at the telephone company who would call in for tech help and just make up symptoms and tell the support guy whatever he thought he needed to tell in order to keep him guessing, when in fact there was no problem at all to begin with. He would always "find" the trouble near the end of the day, making himself out to be a hero with unbelievable skills. The game lasted about 2 weeks, coming to an end when I put a red herring in a system, sent him out to troubleshoot it, and caught him red handed lying about what he was doing onsite. Game over.

Now, I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying it strongly reminds me of that employee and what he did to string tech support on for hours before, in his words, "finding the problem when none of the support techs could find it".

If I were to tell my mother about this thread, she would have said, "Bless his little heart!" She was a good woman.

Jul 7, 2024#233

J

JimP2014

farmerdave1954 said:
I've been watching this thread a long time, getting in about halfway through, but going back and reading from the first post. I gotta give you credit for patience, you've stayed after this a long time, but I've also gotta give the responders credit for sticking with you this long. My personal opinion is, unless you have a sentimental attachment to this machine, you long ago passed the point where you should have given up on it, especially with your lack of mechanical skills.

Part of me wants to think you are a legitmate DIY'er, but another part makes me wonder if you are like a tech I used to have working for me at the telephone company who would call in for tech help and just make up symptoms and tell the support guy whatever he thought he needed to tell in order to keep him guessing, when in fact there was no problem at all to begin with. He would always "find" the trouble near the end of the day, making himself out to be a hero with unbelievable skills. The game lasted about 2 weeks, coming to an end when I put a red herring in a system, sent him out to troubleshoot it, and caught him red handed lying about what he was doing onsite. Game over.

Now, I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying it strongly reminds me of that employee and what he did to string tech support on for hours before, in his words, "finding the problem when none of the support techs could find it".

If I were to tell my mother about this thread, she would have said, "Bless his little heart!" She was a good woman.

I can take a deep dive into many different topics and I have had to in my lifetime but I usually don't have the right context or the big picture for whatever is going on because I don't have that kind of background. I have spent probably 55 years messing around with lawn tractors. I wish they just ran perfectly and I wouldn't know any of this but a lot of times you got to do what you got to do and if I'm really close to getting this right then why should a person spend $2,000 on something brand new when they're only maybe $100 away from getting it right? Also, for whatever reason this LT 2000 is an amazing machine. When it's running correctly you would think it's a 30 horsepower engine. It can blow through anything and I like to get it back to where I was. I wish 3 weeks ago was just a simple fix but it seemed like it just went from kind of bad to really bad and hopefully I can get it back to running correctly. So as it stands, I remembered in the backyard. I have a cylinder head on a 14.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton engine and I pulled the head off it. I thought it didn't fit because the actual dimensions are diff

farmerdave1954 said:
I've been watching this thread a long time, getting in about halfway through, but going back and reading from the first post. I gotta give you credit for patience, you've stayed after this a long time, but I've also gotta give the responders credit for sticking with you this long. My personal opinion is, unless you have a sentimental attachment to this machine, you long ago passed the point where you should have given up on it, especially with your lack of mechanical skills.

Part of me wants to think you are a legitmate DIY'er, but another part makes me wonder if you are like a tech I used to have working for me at the telephone company who would call in for tech help and just make up symptoms and tell the support guy whatever he thought he needed to tell in order to keep him guessing, when in fact there was no problem at all to begin with. He would always "find" the trouble near the end of the day, making himself out to be a hero with unbelievable skills. The game lasted about 2 weeks, coming to an end when I put a red herring in a system, sent him out to troubleshoot it, and caught him red handed lying about what he was doing onsite. Game over.

Now, I'm not accusing you of this, I'm just saying it strongly reminds me of that employee and what he did to string tech support on for hours before, in his words, "finding the problem when none of the support techs could find it".

If I were to tell my mother about this thread, she would have said, "Bless his little heart!" She was a good woman.

I can only say I've been messing around with riding lawn mowers since 1980 so I've learned a few things but I care not really to mess around with any of this stuff. But I need a reliable riding lawn mower and I just can't see spending say $2,000 when I could be maybe another 100 to $200 away.

Apparently it's a bad time to call folks to come out to your home to do lawn mower repair. So this is where it is right now.

So yes, I've learned many things. say in 45 years I'm messing around with small engines but I assure you not enough to solve the current problem.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#234

D

davis2

DABS said:
I’m guessing governor gear and bent crank

I'm guessing operator...

Jul 7, 2024#235

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
I decided that I'm going to use J-B weld on the spark plug. The reason being is the cylinder head is garbage at this point and I only want to see if having a spark plug even for a few hours to remain in the cylinder head if I can stop the hunting and surging and at this point since I removed the kill wire the only other thing that has not been done is to remove the electronic fuel solenoid by snipping that plunger and using the fuel shut off valve which is already there. I don't think I would ever use J-B weld on a spark plug as a permanent solution, but it doesn't cost anything. It might hold for a few hours and then I could see if the hunting and surging can be stopped. I don't see fixing anything internal. I have no skill in that and I don't want anybody else to even do it.

Maybe somebody who sees these things quite often can comment on what I plan on doing to figure out the hunting and surging problem.

Thanks,
Jim

Why not buy a heli-coil for the spark plug!

Jul 7, 2024#236

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
I'm guessing operator...

Hi Davis, 2,

If you're thinking that this Governor issue was somehow internal to the short block, then I can't picture myself messing around with it if that turns out to be true.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#237

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
Why not buy a heli-coil for the spark plug!

I think I really destroyed the opening where the spark plug would go in. Secondly, the upper right screw hole for the valve cover is messed up so I'm just going to see if this old cylinder head that I was able to get off an older riding mower Will work out.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#238

F

farmerdave1954

JimP2014 said:
I can take a deep dive into many different topics and I have had to in my lifetime but I usually don't have the right context or the big picture for whatever is going on because I don't have that kind of background. I have spent probably 55 years messing around with lawn tractors. I wish they just ran perfectly and I wouldn't know any of this but a lot of times you got to do what you got to do and if I'm really close to getting this right then why should a person spend $2,000 on something brand new when they're only maybe $100 away from getting it right? Also, for whatever reason this LT 2000 is an amazing machine. When it's running correctly you would think it's a 30 horsepower engine. It can blow through anything and I like to get it back to where I was. I wish 3 weeks ago was just a simple fix but it seemed like it just went from kind of bad to really bad and hopefully I can get it back to running correctly. So as it stands, I remembered in the backyard. I have a cylinder head on a 14.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton engine and I pulled the head off it. I thought it didn't fit because the actual dimensions are diff

I can only say I've been messing around with riding lawn mowers since 1980 so I've learned a few things but I care not really to mess around with any of this stuff. But I need a reliable riding lawn mower and I just can't see spending say $2,000 when I could be maybe another 100 to $200 away.

Apparently it's a bad time to call folks to come out to your home to do lawn mower repair. So this is where it is right now.

So yes, I've learned many things. say in 45 years I'm messing around with small engines but I assure you not enough to solve the current problem.

Jim

Well, I congratulate you for having the fortitude to keep trying. I didn't mean for my reply to discourage you, it just sounded to me like you had long ago reached the point of diminishing returns, unless, as I said, there was a sentimental attachment to it. If there is, then it's worth whatever you are willing to put into it, money wise. I can't argue with your math, except I think you'll be lucky to find anything even for $2000 that is built these days anywhere near the quality of what you are working on. I restore old tractors and old radios, most 60 years old and older, so I can't say anything about cost vs. enjoyment of fixing it yourself. I've spent a lot more money restoring many of those than they are worth if sold. Of course, I don't sell them, I keep them....it's what I do. I suspect you will get it running properly if you stay after it long enough. You may be fighting more than just one problem, and those can get difficult. It looks to me like this one is already there. Good luck.

Jul 7, 2024#239

J

JimP2014

farmerdave1954 said:
Well, I congratulate you for having the fortitude to keep trying. I didn't mean for my reply to discourage you, it just sounded to me like you had long ago reached the point of diminishing returns, unless, as I said, there was a sentimental attachment to it. If there is, then it's worth whatever you are willing to put into it, money wise. I can't argue with your math, except I think you'll be lucky to find anything even for $2000 that is built these days anywhere near the quality of what you are working on. I restore old tractors and old radios, most 60 years old and older, so I can't say anything about cost vs. enjoyment of fixing it yourself. I've spent a lot more money restoring many of those than they are worth if sold. Of course, I don't sell them, I keep them....it's what I do. I suspect you will get it running properly if you stay after it long enough. You may be fighting more than just one problem, and those can get difficult. It looks to me like this one is already there. Good luck.

I think your restoration projects are a hobby, I'm not really too thrilled Abbot this project considering it's been hot as hell and you know you could pick and when you want to do the restoration. But let me leave you with another completely separate project so there is a Kenmore elite dishwasher in the kitchen and so it has a crack in the tub. It's not stainless steel but it's from like 2004 so the first time I tried to repair it, I can't remember what I used but it did not actually work and the tub still leaked but then I came up with the flex seal stuff. It's a spray on it's white so I just roughed up the area and it's been good ever since. But people are saying oh you got to get a new dishwasher. How old is it? And why did I have to get a new dishwasher? It still works. It's perfect.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#240

D

dwzkd

Hi Jim, Do you think the fan from the 14.5hp engine will fit to replace your broken one? I would not try the flywheel from the 14.5hp engine though, just the fan....

Regarding the head from the 14.5hp engine, I understand you to say that the cylinder diameter is smaller, so the corresponding recess in the head is smaller? If this is the case, as long as you can get a good seal with a gasket to the block, I would give it a try for sure.

On the surging issue, we have ruled out an intermittent kill switch with the test you ran earlier.
Have you looked into the carburetor? I thought I saw that you swapped it out earlier... but I am not sure.

I had an Onan on a JD 318, where the intake manifold was pressed together and glued. Over the years, the glue came loose, and air started to be sucked into the engine (between the carburetor and intake on the engine). This caused it to run lean and caused a hunting problem because as it leaned out, RPM would change, the governor would respond to correct for this, and the cycle would start over. I also had an old Kohler 14hp where the throttle shaft had worn into the shape of a football where it contacted the carburetor body. The throttle shaft would wobble because it was not I full contact with the carburetor hole. In both cases, I had a hunting issue like you have. I learned the trick to spray carb cleaner at the intake manifold and near the carburetor exit as well as the point where it entered the head. When I did that, engine speed would pick up (because I was adding more fuel and thus making the mixture less lean). Keep in mind "lean" means not enough fuel for the amount of air, and rich means too much fuel for the amount of air. The Carb cleaner check is quick and easy way to check this. If you see no change in behavior, then you don't have an air leak. (also check the throttle shaft for wobble and maybe give a small shot there to see if it is sucking in air). Also make sure the throttle and choke plates are on the shafts tight. A lose plate will wobble and change the amount of air getting in as well.

If you are not drawing in too much air, then it must be getting less fuel than it needs for the air it is getting. This is likely a fuel supply issue (plugged filter; plugged fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump

or (float/needle not working properly) or (internal carburetor orifices blocked). Are you comfortable taking apart the carburetor to clean it out? Another place for leaks is if the float bowl seal is not tight or is damaged.

You can bypass the fuel line and filter from the tank to the carburetor by "gravity" feeding fuel into the carburetor port. I have used an old plastic beverage bottle for a temporary fuel tank for testing. Get a short piece of fuel line, drill a hole in the plastic lid of the plastic bottle a little smaller than the OD of your hose. Then squeeze the tip of the hose about 1/4" to 1/2" into the hole in the lid. Fill the beverage bottle about half-way with good fuel, put the lid on it and connect the other end of the hose to the input on the carburetor. start the engine while holding the bottle upside down (so fuel drains out into the carburetor). If the problem goes away, then you have a plugged line or filter. There may also be a plugged port in the tank. If the problem persists, then you know it is in the carburetor. (assuming you ruled out air leaks and spark issues)

Hope this helps.

Jul 7, 2024#241

J

JimP2014

billroy1 said:
Hi Jim,
Now that you got this thing running I am starting to think maybe you have too much compression, I would test it again after you replace the cylinder head, Don't forget a new gasket, good luck. I cannot help you much more, I used to get poison ivy really bad so I totally avoid it now

I am sorry that you were thinking this because what happened was I destroyed the spark plug hole and and I wrapped some steel wool around the spark plug and then when I went to test it, the spark plug blew out and I couldn't find it in the yard because it was still inside of the rubber boot for the ignition coil. But I posted a video of what happened but the compression's fine. And you did not know that.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#242

D

DABS

Hey Jim what part of the country are you from?

Jul 7, 2024#243

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Hi Jim, Do you think the fan from the 14.5hp engine will fit to replace your broken one? I would not try the flywheel from the 14.5hp engine though, just the fan....

Regarding the head from the 14.5hp engine, I understand you to say that the cylinder diameter is smaller, so the corresponding recess in the head is smaller? If this is the case, as long as you can get a good seal with a gasket to the block, I would give it a try for sure.

On the surging issue, we have ruled out an intermittent kill switch with the test you ran earlier.
Have you looked into the carburetor? I thought I saw that you swapped it out earlier... but I am not sure.

I had an Onan on a JD 318, where the intake manifold was pressed together and glued. Over the years, the glue came loose, and air started to be sucked into the engine (between the carburetor and intake on the engine). This caused it to run lean and caused a hunting problem because as it leaned out, RPM would change, the governor would respond to correct for this, and the cycle would start over. I also had an old Kohler 14hp where the throttle shaft had worn into the shape of a football where it contacted the carburetor body. The throttle shaft would wobble because it was not I full contact with the carburetor hole. In both cases, I had a hunting issue like you have. I learned the trick to spray carb cleaner at the intake manifold and near the carburetor exit as well as the point where it entered the head. When I did that, engine speed would pick up (because I was adding more fuel and thus making the mixture less lean). Keep in mind "lean" means not enough fuel for the amount of air, and rich means too much fuel for the amount of air. The Carb cleaner check is quick and easy way to check this. If you see no change in behavior, then you don't have an air leak. (also check the throttle shaft for wobble and maybe give a small shot there to see if it is sucking in air). Also make sure the throttle and choke plates are on the shafts tight. A lose plate will wobble and change the amount of air getting in as well.

If you are not drawing in too much air, then it must be getting less fuel than it needs for the air it is getting. This is likely a fuel supply issue (plugged filter; plugged fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump or (float/needle not working properly) or (internal carburetor orifices blocked). Are you comfortable taking apart the carburetor to clean it out? Another place for leaks is if the float bowl seal is not tight or is damaged.

You can bypass the fuel line and filter from the tank to the carburetor by "gravity" feeding fuel into the carburetor port. I have used an old plastic beverage bottle for a temporary fuel tank for testing. Get a short piece of fuel line, drill a hole in the plastic lid of the plastic bottle a little smaller than the OD of your hose. Then squeeze the tip of the hose about 1/4" to 1/2" into the hole in the lid. Fill the beverage bottle about half-way with good fuel, put the lid on it and connect the other end of the hose to the input on the carburetor. start the engine while holding the bottle upside down (so fuel drains out into the carburetor). If the problem goes away, then you have a plugged line or filter. There may also be a plugged port in the tank. If the problem persists, then you know it is in the carburetor. (assuming you ruled out air leaks and spark issues)

Hope this helps.

Hello Dvzkd,
You have a lot of great information there and one thing I did see I would not take apart a carburetor to clean it. I would lose a piece or some other thing but right now the 3-year-old carburetor is on there and I snipped off part of the fuel solenoid so it's always getting fuel but I have a fuel shut off valve. I'm just trying to figure out if there's some weird thing going on even though the fuel solenoid does what it's supposed to. Based on the ignition key, it can't hurt to try that test. Furthermore, I have a brand new carburetor that I was briefly using and it wasn't making any difference so I went back to the old carburetor but I think I'm just going to go with this new carburetor and maybe end up with the fuel solenoid that has the tip of it cut off. I don't know that's all. Tomorrow I got to install a cylinder head from an older riding mower that's still in the yard.

But I will read this again probably tomorrow morning and use this as a guide for right now. But before I blew out the spark plug this morning, actually twice because the JB weld did nothing. The situation is still it starts right up and there's hunting and surging and all the other problems seem to have subsided.
Jim

Jul 7, 2024#244

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hello Dvzkd,
You have a lot of great information there and one thing I did see I would not take apart a carburetor to clean it. I would lose a piece or some other thing but right now the 3-year-old carburetor is on there and I snipped off part of the fuel solenoid so it's always getting fuel but I have a fuel shut off valve. I'm just trying to figure out if there's some weird thing going on even though the fuel solenoid does what it's supposed to. Based on the ignition key, it can't hurt to try that test. Furthermore, I have a brand new carburetor that I was briefly using and it wasn't making any difference so I went back to the old carburetor but I think I'm just going to go with this new carburetor and maybe end up with the fuel solenoid that has the tip of it cut off. I don't know that's all. Tomorrow I got to install a cylinder head from an older riding mower that's still in the yard.

But I will read this again probably tomorrow morning and use this as a guide for right now. But before I blew out the spark plug this morning, actually twice because the JB weld did nothing. The situation is still it starts right up and there's hunting and surging and all the other problems seem to have subsided.
Jim

I just reread and I was never talking about the cylinder head diameter but that's a good thing to consider. I was just talking about the overall width of the whole thing because the newer cylinder head has like extra fins and creates more width for the hole cylinder head. Whereas the older one doesn't have the extra fins. So it seems like the holes and there's seven of them are identical in both. But I will check the diameter and just the area on the inside of the cylinder head and compare both of them and see what's up with that. Thanks for mentioning it.

Jim

Jul 7, 2024#245

0

0NPASSIVE

JimP2014 said:
I apologize to everyone who has viewed these posts because all the information I provided kept changing from my perspective because I couldn't figure out what's going on. But here's what the whole thing comes down to and I'm pretty sure of this. I'm absolutely getting spark if the spark plug using the spark plug tester that is consistent. It is the same for the last 1 and 1/2 days. I never realized the ignition coil had an orientation but it does. But the point is when I turn the key the key does trigger the starter. As long as the riding mower is in park position, I removed the safety switch underneath the seat a couple years ago and it has been fine but I can say the problem right now is I'm definitely getting spark to the spark plug and even with carburetor cleaner sprayed into the intake, the engine refuses to even start for a split second which has never been the case. So the question is, can the electronic fuel solenoid not only defeat regular gas going into the carburetor but can it also defeat carburetor cleaner? This is really the question.

Or any other scenario where you definitely have spark but the engine refuses to turn over. Would this be some sort of safety device or is it simply take a look at what's going on in the carburetor?

Thanks to anyone who can answer this, I appreciate it very much.

Jim

If it started with carb cleaner or starter fluid, then you have spark to the plug, so it has to be no fuel issue, a common problem, so check fuel pump first, then if not that, replace carb, they are cheap if you don't feel you can disassemble and clean out pin holes in fuel feed.

Jul 8, 2024#246

D

DABS

DABS said:
Hey Jim what part of the country are you from?

???

Jul 8, 2024#247

J

JimP2014

DABS said:
???

CT usa

Jul 8, 2024#248

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hello Dvzkd,
You have a lot of great information there and one thing I did see I would not take apart a carburetor to clean it. I would lose a piece or some other thing but right now the 3-year-old carburetor is on there and I snipped off part of the fuel solenoid so it's always getting fuel but I have a fuel shut off valve. I'm just trying to figure out if there's some weird thing going on even though the fuel solenoid does what it's supposed to. Based on the ignition key, it can't hurt to try that test. Furthermore, I have a brand new carburetor that I was briefly using and it wasn't making any difference so I went back to the old carburetor but I think I'm just going to go with this new carburetor and maybe end up with the fuel solenoid that has the tip of it cut off. I don't know that's all. Tomorrow I got to install a cylinder head from an older riding mower that's still in the yard.

But I will read this again probably tomorrow morning and use this as a guide for right now. But before I blew out the spark plug this morning, actually twice because the JB weld did nothing. The situation is still it starts right up and there's hunting and surging and all the other problems seem to

JimP2014 said:
I just reread and I was never talking about the cylinder head diameter but that's a good thing to consider. I was just talking about the overall width of the whole thing because the newer cylinder head has like extra fins and creates more width for the hole cylinder head. Whereas the older one doesn't have the extra fins. So it seems like the holes and there's seven of them are identical in both. But I will check the diameter and just the area on the inside of the cylinder head and compare both of them and see what's up with that. Thanks for mentioning it

Jul 8, 2024#249

J

JimP2014

It's July 8th about 6:00 a.m. I took off the cylinder head that is matched up with a 19.5 OHV engine. The one I'm trying to work on and I took the cylinder head from a 14.5 OHV Briggs& Stratton engine. The holes the seven bolts line up perfectly. The only thing I noticed is the cylinder head for the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine is more beefy towards the exhaust side. It looks like it's just better built. The question is because I can't upload the image of the comparison is do I need that extra beefiness the short block which is part of the 19.5 horsepower OHV engine this I don't know. Also, I was able to use an RC 12yc spark plug and it went into the older cylinder head which is what I'm trying to fit into the 19.5 horsepower engine.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 8, 2024#250

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
It's July 8th about 6:00 a.m. I took off the cylinder head that is matched up with a 19.5 OHV engine. The one I'm trying to work on and I took the cylinder head from a 14.5 OHV Briggs& Stratton engine. The holes the seven bolts line up perfectly. The only thing I noticed is the cylinder head for the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine is more beefy towards the exhaust side. It looks like it's just better built. The question is because I can't upload the image of the comparison is do I need that extra beefiness the short block which is part of the 19.5 horsepower OHV engine this I don't know. Also, I was able to use an RC 12yc spark plug and it went into the older cylinder head which is what I'm trying to fit into the 19.5 horsepower engine.

Thanks,
Jim

Okay so this image is the cylinder head I really want to use but the spark plug hole is destroyed. So what you see in a faint red color that beefiness does not exist on the 14.5 horsepower cylinder head which is what I need to use because the spark plug hole is perfect. So this is really the question. Do I need that extra beefiness?

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#251

J

JimP2014

Dvzkd,

I see your test on trying to eliminate the fuel tank, the hose and all that but here's a more basic question. The fuel tank sits up higher than the carburetor so the question is does the fuel line have to go from higher to lower because the one I have has a loop in it and it goes down say towards the oil filter which I think is lower. Could that be a problem with the existing setup? Do I need to basically shorten the hose so that it's like a straight line going downhill to where the fuel gets into the carburetor?

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 8, 2024#252

J

JimP2014

I am uploading this image because I've taken apart the engine so many times. I figured while I have the cylinder head off I could put a mark on the flywheel. Put a mark on the ignition coil and make note of the fact the magnet is near the starter and with this positioning the cylinder is slightly past top dead center. I hope this can help someone out. I'm not a big fan of putting a screwdriver into the spark plug hole.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#253

D

dwzkd

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69154

Okay so this image is the cylinder head I really want to use but the spark plug hole is destroyed. So what you see in a faint red color that beefiness does not exist on the 14.5 horsepower cylinder head which is what I need to use because the spark plug hole is perfect. So this is really the question. Do I need that extra beefiness?

Jim

I would give it a shot. I suspect if something were going to happen it would be after a long time of use. I would expect (at most) you may see cracking at the two bolt holes closest to the edge on the smaller head. Just be sure to torque it to spec and don't overdo it. Keep an eye on it and if you see any cracks, look at replacing it then.

-Brian

Jul 8, 2024#254

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
I would give it a shot. I suspect if something were going to happen it would be after a long time of use. I would expect (at most) you may see cracking at the two bolt holes closest to the edge on the smaller head. Just be sure to torque it to spec and don't overdo it. Keep an eye on it and if you see any cracks, look at replacing it then.

-Brian

Okay Brian. Thanks. I haven't done anything further so basically I got the cylinder head on. I wanted to make damn sure I didn't screw those bolts up. They're not torquing down spec, but they're fairly tight right now. The push rods are from the original cylinder. Had that say I noticed that post a little while ago actually where the rocker arms sit. It's sort of unscrewed itself so I got to tighten those down but everything looks like when you rotate the flywheel like the push rods are doing what they're supposed to do. The cylinder head I'm going with right now. The smaller one at least has four screw holes for the valve cover where nothing stripped and I mean I'll give it a shot. I've been thinking about this and it's probably going to be later today when it's cooler but if I go back to hunting and surging with everything that seems to be different than I'm at a loss and I've been thinking about. Why couldn't any engine manufacturers like Briggs& Stratton or Kohler or whomever put on the back side of any engine like a plate that can be removed? Have eight bolts and the reason for it is you want to see if the camshaft is bent. You want to see if the governor is screwed up. Take the thing off and look inside the engine. You don't need to do anything further. That's what I would do if I were. Those companies make it easier without having to go through. Well if you have this symptom and you have that symptom then it means this. No guess that's the way to do it. The way to do it is actually visually inspect the thing.

But thanks for your help and I'll see what happens.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#255

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay Brian. Thanks. I haven't done anything further so basically I got the cylinder head on. I wanted to make damn sure I didn't screw those bolts up. They're not torquing down spec, but they're fairly tight right now. The push rods are from the original cylinder. Had that say I noticed that post a little while ago actually where the rocker arms sit. It's sort of unscrewed itself so I got to tighten those down but everything looks like when you rotate the flywheel like the push rods are doing what they're supposed to do. The cylinder head I'm going with right now. The smaller one at least has four screw holes for the valve cover where nothing stripped and I mean I'll give it a shot. I've been thinking about this and it's probably going to be later today when it's cooler but if I go back to hunting and surging with everything that seems to be different than I'm at a loss and I've been thinking about. Why couldn't any engine manufacturers like Briggs& Stratton or Kohler or whomever put on the back side of any engine like a plate that can be removed? Have eight bolts and the reason for it is you want to see if the camshaft is bent. You want to see if the governor is screwed up. Take the thing off and look inside the engine. You don't need to do anything further. That's what I would do if I were. Those companies make it easier without having to go through. Well if you have this symptom and you have that symptom then it means this. No guess that's the way to do it. The way to do it is actually visually inspect the thing.

But thanks for your help and I'll see what happens.

Jim

Oh the other thing was should I shorten the fuel line so it's like the fuel is angled down towards the carburetor because right now it's a big loop kind of? And the only other thing is this thing actually runs well then I absolutely will get a cylinder head for it. But right now I'm not sure what to do so I'm going to try it out as is.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#256

D

dwzkd

JimP2014 said:
Oh the other thing was should I shorten the fuel line so it's like the fuel is angled down towards the carburetor because right now it's a big loop kind of? And the only other thing is this thing actually runs well then I absolutely will get a cylinder head for it. But right now I'm not sure what to do so I'm going to try it out as is.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I wouldn't worry about the fuel line. This shows a vacuum style fuel pump (round hocky puck looking thing with three hoses)... The fuel line shouldn't matter with the pump.

Once you get the head tightened and try running it again, (maybe the hunting will go away

) let's see what happens and go from there.

A few other thoughts
1) have you checked the oil to see if it is at the right level? With the fuel cutoff solenoid disabled, some fuel can get into the crankcase if the tractor is sitting just right. Not sure if this would be a related problem or not, just something to check and watch.
2) Once you get it running, turn the fuel valve off and let it run until it dies. This will drain most of the fuel from the carburetor bowl. Then remove the fuel hose at the carburetor and squirt carb cleaner in there until it overflows the little pipe. Spray the rest of the carburetor inside and outside with carb cleaner. Let it set for 10 minutes or so. You can also remove the fuel adjusting screw (has a point on it when removed so you know you got the right one). Then spray carb cleaner in the hole where it came out.

After it has sat for 10 mins, put the adjusting needle back in place and gently screw it in until it bottoms out (not tight, just touches), then pack it out 1 1/2 turns. Reconnect the fuel line to the carburetor open the manual fuel valve and start it up. It will run rough until the carb cleaner is burned up. [this is a poor man's way to clean the carb. it is not the best clean, but it can work]

3) Check for air leakage as I shared before by spraying carb cleaner on the intake manifold (black plastic between carburetor and engine) and throttle & choke shafts.

Please let us know the outcome...
-Brian

Jul 8, 2024#257

F

Forest#2

When the guy told you to sub another fuel supply he wants you to try running on fresh fuel.

Or at least drain your tank and your fuel lines and carb bowl and add FRESH NON-ethanol gas.

Why: any moisture/water in the fuel or contaminated fuel will cause spitting back /surging/hunting.

The loop in the fuel line is ok. The gas in the tank only has to be above the level of the carb barb for gravity feed.

The carb jet is adjusted at slow idle and as you turn the jet out, go about 1/4 turn past when the engine starts getting smooth at idle. If it never gets smooth set it at 1 3/4 turn out or if its has a limiter on it set it at midway of the limiter.

A user friendly way to adjust the valve lash and not be concerned about 1/4 inch past TDC is to adjust one valve when the opposite valves rocker arm is fully down. The main one to get correct is the Intake valve set a .003-.005 (nominal .004) Turn the engine over by hand few time and re-check.
Set the air gap on the magneto at .010. Let the flywheel magnet draw the magneto in on a .010 gauge. Turn the flywheel and make sure nothing rubs on the magneto after setting the air gap.
Most plastic cards are too thick at .015

Jul 8, 2024#258

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Hi Jim,

I wouldn't worry about the fuel line. This shows a vacuum style fuel pump (round hocky puck looking thing with three hoses)... The fuel line shouldn't matter with the pump.

Once you get the head tightened and try running it again, (maybe the hunting will go away ) let's see what happens and go from there.

A few other thoughts
1) have you checked the oil to see if it is at the right level? With the fuel cutoff solenoid disabled, some fuel can get into the crankcase if the tractor is sitting just right. Not sure if this would be a related problem or not, just something to check and watch.
2) Once you get it running, turn the fuel valve off and let it run until it dies. This will drain most of the fuel from the carburetor bowl. Then remove the fuel hose at the carburetor and squirt carb cleaner in there until it overflows the little pipe. Spray the rest of the carburetor inside and outside with carb cleaner. Let it set for 10 minutes or so. You can also remove the fuel adjusting screw (has a point on it when removed so you know you got the right one). Then spray carb cleaner in the hole where it came out.

After it has sat for 10 mins, put the adjusting needle back in place and gently screw it in until it bottoms out (not tight, just touches), then pack it out 1 1/2 turns. Reconnect the fuel line to the carburetor open the manual fuel valve and start it up. It will run rough until the carb cleaner is burned up. [this is a poor man's way to clean the carb. it is not the best clean, but it can work]

3) Check for air leakage as I shared before by spraying carb cleaner on the intake manifold (black plastic between carburetor and engine) and throttle & choke shafts.

Please let us know the outcome...
-Brian

Awesome Brian. Thanks again for this further update. I'll have my phone with me outside when I'm going through all this.

Jul 8, 2024#259

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
When the guy told you to sub another fuel supply he wants you to try running on fresh fuel.

Or at least drain your tank and your fuel lines and carb bowl and add FRESH NON-ethanol gas.

Why: any moisture/water in the fuel or contaminated fuel will cause spitting back /surging/hunting.

The loop in the fuel line is ok. The gas in the tank only has to be above the level of the carb barb for gravity feed.

The carb jet is adjusted at slow idle and as you turn the jet out, go about 1/4 turn past when the engine starts getting smooth at idle. If it never gets smooth set it at 1 3/4 turn out or if its has a limiter on it set it at midway of the limiter.

A user friendly way to adjust the valve lash and not be concerned about 1/4 inch past TDC is to adjust one valve when the opposite valves rocker arm is fully down. The main one to get correct is the Intake valve set a .003-.005 (nominal .004) Turn the engine over by hand few time and re-check.
Set the air gap on the magneto at .010. Let the flywheel magnet draw the magneto in on a .010 gauge. Turn the flywheel and make sure nothing rubs on the magneto after setting the air gap.
Most plastic cards are too thick at .015

Forest, thanks for this. I think I'm going to combine what you wrote and what Brian wrote and printed it all out. But one thing and I assure you someone believed I was a tech person just testing you all but I'm not. But I'm saying this because I have no clue what a valve lash is. I will look that up. Don't worry. Don't need a reply.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#260

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest, thanks for this. I think I'm going to combine what you wrote and what Brian wrote and printed it all out. But one thing and I assure you someone believed I was a tech person just testing you all but I'm not. But I'm saying this because I have no clue what a valve lash is. I will look that up. Don't worry. Don't need a reply.

Jim

Okay it's the valve clearance. I get it. I just don't know the phrase you used. Thanks though Forest.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#261

F

Forest#2

This is assuming that you have the flywheel fan on and the air shroud so as the engine can be operated long enough without overheating .

Try holding the carb throttle manually at low idle of approx 1200 rpms and see if the engine idles ok.

If it idles ok at around 1200 rpm's with no spitting and jerking slowly manually using the carb's throttle plate increase the engine rpm's and see if stays smooth or gets rough. You are not using the on board throttle cable lever you are manually controlling the throttle plate, bypassing the governor control.

then if engine does not hunt and surge when manually controlled
you need to
then

search on-line for how to do a STATIC GOVERNOR ADJUST.

If it don't slow idle good and smooth at about 1200 rpm's you need to forget about the governor and get the engine to operating at low rpms smooth before tackling other stuff.

Let us know what ya find about slow idle manually controlled carb responses?

Jul 8, 2024#262

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
If it still surges and hunts after all the about search on-line for how to do a STATIC GOVERNOR ADJUST.

Okay thank you. I just want you to know I've done so much. I actually have done the governor adjustment and it's where you move the arm back when it's on the lowest throttle setting. I'm just calling my memory but I will look it up again but I did all that and I thought I had it set correctly because it already was correct. But no worries but thanks for that extra info.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#263

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay thank you. I just want you to know I've done so much. I actually have done the governor adjustment and it's where you move the arm back when it's on the lowest throttle setting. I'm just calling my memory but I will look it up again but I did all that and I thought I had it set correctly because it already was correct. But no worries but thanks for that extra info.

Jim

And when? It's on basically full throttle. The throttle plate I think it is is like a stiff spring but when it's it's the low throttle. It's kind of a loose spring but I'll look it up again but that's what I remember the more I think of it.

Jul 8, 2024#264

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
And when? It's on basically full throttle. The throttle plate I think it is is like a stiff spring but when it's it's the low throttle. It's kind of a loose spring but I'll look it up again but that's what I remember the more I think of it.

Maybe it's called the linkage plate. It's where the little tiny wire and the other thicker metal wire hook into on top. It's kind of a shiny triangular shape thing. That's the thing I'm talking about

Jul 8, 2024#265

D

dwzkd

See below. Note yours will be similar but may look different.

Hold the throttle control plate against the Low Idle Setscrew to bypass the governor control.

The green screw is the idle adjust (fuel / air control) screw.

Jul 8, 2024#266

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
See below. Note yours will be similar but may look different.

Hold the throttle control plate against the Low Idle Setscrew to bypass the governor control.

The green screw is the idle adjust (fuel / air control) screw.

Right Brian, sometimes I just don't know the names of the things, but the one with the needle is a fuel air mixture screw. And basically I know that if you tighten it, you close up the little tiny hole and by doing that you're allowing less air in and you are getting more fuel into the engine. So it took me a while to figure that one out and keep that in memory. But the other screw is the low low idle screw so I know what that does as well. And I have at times held the governor to prevent the hunting and surging but I know that's not the way it should work. But I will revisit the governor setting. I hate to say it for like the third or fourth time actually. I just went out to make sure the post for both the intake and exhaust rocker arms are tight and then I plan to put the the rocker arms and all that other stuff back. The tapetts are still in place so I think I got most of the procedure down. It's just what's going to happen when I actually fire it up. But I have your other instructions actually in like a notepad for Android with Forest's comments as well so it's all merged into one document. Like I said I'm just going to wait till it cools down brutally hot out.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#267

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Right Brian, sometimes I just don't know the names of the things, but the one with the needle is a fuel air mixture screw. And basically I know that if you tighten it, you close up the little tiny hole and by doing that you're allowing less air in and you are getting more fuel into the engine. So it took me a while to figure that one out and keep that in memory. But the other screw is the low low idle screw so I know what that does as well. And I have at times held the governor to prevent the hunting and surging but I know that's not the way it should work. But I will revisit the governor setting. I hate to say it for like the third or fourth time actually. I just went out to make sure the post for both the intake and exhaust rocker arms are tight and then I plan to put the the rocker arms and all that other stuff back. The tapetts are still in place so I think I got most of the procedure down. It's just what's going to happen when I actually fire it up. But I have your other instructions actually in like a notepad for Android with Forest's comments as well so it's all merged into one document. Like I said I'm just going to wait till it cools down brutally hot out.

Jim

Okay so it's back to where the flywheel rotates and it doesn't start so I know I put a new flywheel key in and the video illustrates the problem I made sure there was no gasoline in the carburetor bowl. I then put the fuel solenoid back. I then allowed gas to flow into the carburetor and the video you're watching is actually the third time. So then the second time and the third time I sprayed carburetor cleaner into the intake and the flywheel just rotates. I have a spark plug. Maybe I should switch out the spark plug I set the valve clearance 4 on the intake 8 on the exhaust.

From my brief experience, if the flywheel rotates and nothing happens, I found it's a flywheel key issue.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#268

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay so it's back to where the flywheel rotates and it doesn't start so I know I put a new flywheel key in and the video illustrates the problem I made sure there was no gasoline in the carburetor bowl. I then put the fuel solenoid back. I then allowed gas to flow into the carburetor and the video you're watching is actually the third time. So then the second time and the third time I sprayed carburetor cleaner into the intake and the flywheel just rotates. I have a spark plug. Maybe I should switch out the spark plug I set the valve clearance 4 on the intake 8 on the exhaust.

From my brief experience, if the flywheel rotates and nothing happens, I found it's a flywheel key issue.

Jim

So I did buy a spark plug tester. Maybe I should make use of it and see what's up. In the past if there was spark it did work meaning the spark plug tester. It's a lot easier than taking out the spark plug

Jul 8, 2024#269

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I did buy a spark plug tester. Maybe I should make use of it and see what's up. In the past if there was spark it did work meaning the spark plug tester. It's a lot easier than taking out the spark plug

So using a spark plug tester there absolutely is spark. So then somehow despite tightening the flywheel bolts 100 ft lb I think maybe there's something wrong with the flywheel. I mean that's my experience so I'm wondering if the flywheel key could be okay, but there's something else wrong with a new cylinder head which is the old old cylinder head?

In other words, some explanation where the flywheel key is okay but....

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#270

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So using a spark plug tester there absolutely is spark. So then somehow despite tightening the flywheel bolts 100 ft lb I think maybe there's something wrong with the flywheel. I mean that's my experience so I'm wondering if the flywheel key could be okay, but there's something else wrong with a new cylinder head which is the old old cylinder head?

In other words, some explanation where the flywheel key is okay but....

Jim

This might not be a good example, but suppose there's something wrong with part A whatever that is. So the first time around part A is the problem because it starts up instantly. It runs incredible for 5 seconds and then there's hunting and surging and then later on part A is the problem because the flywheel keeps turning there's spark and nothing happens. This is not possible I don't think?

Jul 8, 2024#271

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
This might not be a good example, but suppose there's something wrong with part A whatever that is. So the first time around part A is the problem because it starts up instantly. It runs incredible for 5 seconds and then there's hunting and surging and then later on part A is the problem because the flywheel keeps turning there's spark and nothing happens. This is not possible I don't think?

You have to resolve the fuel supply issue. Start at the carburetor. Oh,BTW, did you get the proper head installed?

Jul 8, 2024#272

D

dwzkd

Try setting up your marks on that you made on the flywheel fan and coil... see if the magnet is by the starter. I would assume it is more likely something with the head or fuel at this point. did you happen to see if the push rods from the 14.5 hp engine were same length as the 19hp? Are the valve sizes the same between the two heads? Did you make sure to put the aluminum (silver) push rod on the intake? and the steel one on the exhaust?

It will take a minute to start from a dry bowl too...

Jul 8, 2024#273

J

JimP2014

dwzkd said:
Try setting up your marks on that you made on the flywheel fan and coil... see if the magnet is by the starter. I would assume it is more likely something with the head or fuel at this point. did you happen to see if the push rods from the 14.5 hp engine were same length as the 19hp? Are the valve sizes the same between the two heads? Did you make sure to put the aluminum (silver) push rod on the intake? and the steel one on the exhaust?

It will take a minute to start from a dry bowl too...

You know I was thinking about that yesterday to grab the pushrods from the other older machine and I did not use those push rods. I used the pushrods that came with the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#274

M

Mark H_NO

The spark tester showing spark does not verify timing. Have you checked the flywheel key? You were talking about doing it, but I can't recall if it happened again.

Jul 8, 2024#275

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
The spark tester showing spark does not verify timing. Have you checked the flywheel key? You were talking about doing it, but I can't recall if it happened again.

Hi Mark, I'm thinking about checking the flywheel key again. I just want to make sure that since I have spark the somehow the new cylinder head that I'm using, which is actually a very old cylinder head doesn't have an issue with it and fuel is getting near the spark plug. But thanks for asking about then. I definitely will keep it in mind.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#276

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hi Mark, I'm thinking about checking the flywheel key again. I just want to make sure that since I have spark the somehow the new cylinder head that I'm using, which is actually a very old cylinder head doesn't have an issue with it and fuel is getting near the spark plug. But thanks for asking about then. I definitely will keep it in mind.

Jim

Mark Mark, so just so you have the most current information, I got rid of the cylinder head that came with a 19.5 horsepower OHV engine. I blew the spark plug out twice. I don't want to have to rethread it. I got a problem with the threads on one of the valve cover threads also. So I happen to have a 14.5 horsepower ohv engine. The cylinder head matches up except it doesn't have extra material around the exhaust area but it seems everything else lines up. In fact, I was using that tonight and the ignition turns the flywheel but the flywheel does nothing except spin so that's where that's at. I got to check on the pushrods that are from the 19.5 horsepower OHV engine to make sure they're the same length as the pushrods that I'm not using from the 14.5 horsepower engine. And I definitely had spark using the spark plug tester. So tomorrow I got to figure out why the flywheel is rotating and there is no engine starting. I actually made a video of what happened tonight.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#277

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
Mark Mark, so just so you have the most current information, I got rid of the cylinder head that came with a 19.5 horsepower OHV engine. I blew the spark plug out twice. I don't want to have to rethread it. I got a problem with the threads on one of the valve cover threads also. So I happen to have a 14.5 horsepower ohv engine. The cylinder head matches up except it doesn't have extra material around the exhaust area but it seems everything else lines up. In fact, I was using that tonight and the ignition turns the flywheel but the flywheel does nothing except spin so that's where that's at. I got to check on the pushrods that are from the 19.5 horsepower OHV engine to make sure they're the same length as the pushrods that I'm not using from the 14.5 horsepower engine. And I definitely had spark using the spark plug tester. So tomorrow I got to figure out why the flywheel is rotating and there is no engine starting. I actually made a video of what happened tonight.

Jim

Jim, you should really consider a new to you used engine...

Jul 8, 2024#278

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
Jim, you should really consider a new to you used engine...

Davis I hear what you're saying. The way I'm thinking about the problem is if there's something internal to the short block that absolutely is the problem then move on to another engine but I don't know that right now for sure. If the problem is one of the components you slap onto the short block and I just don't have that in the right working order then that's different.

Jim

Jul 8, 2024#279

M

Mark H_NO

Jim, check that stuff, and check the flywheel key. That can be a cause of the flywheel turning, spark tester showing spark, and engine does not run.

Jul 8, 2024#280

J

JimP2014

Mark H_NO said:
Jim, check that stuff, and check the flywheel key. That can be a cause of the flywheel turning, spark tester showing spark, and engine does not run.

Mark, I hear you. It wouldn't surprise me if I destroyed the keyway again because the symptoms are exactly the same as the last time I destroyed the keyway.

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#281

J

JimP2014

Jul 9, 2024#282

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69167

The flywheel key looks intact but that means nothing. I'm wondering if I should pull the head right now or assume the key works. It looks intact. It looks in the correct location but who knows, but I'm thinking of moving on to spark fuel carburetor arena.

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#283

O

oldntired55

JimP2014 said:
Thanks old and tired. So I just did a search on symptoms of a bad timing gear on a crankshaft for Briggs& Stratton engine or something very similar as a phrase.

And again, I'm not an engine mechanic and I could tell you there is no way in hell I could ever come up with that phrase with what I know about engines probably not in a billion years. So wow. Overall the internet is great, especially this forum and YouTube videos unless you know exactly what you're looking for because you know what the problem is in advance. There's a good chance you're not going to find what you're looking for, unless it's a simple problem, that's my conclusion.

But thanks again old and tired. I will keep that in mind.

Jim

glad i could point you in right direction... id be very curious to know how it turns out

Jul 9, 2024#284

O

oldntired55

oldntired55 said:
glad i could point you in right direction... id be very curious to know how it turns out

i was ready to pull the head, but my leakdown tester showed no leaks thru valves.. OR thru the oil fill tube. so i was certain valves & rings were ok. well, the only way to get "compression",,,, is there has to be a volume of air for the piston to 'compress"....you cant obtain that volume, if the valves are BOTH closed on the downward piston stroke. i think too many of us over think the basics of a 4 stroke engine... just remember one thing, with a leakdown tester, you are Pushing the air in, with a compression test, the engine supplies the air.

Jul 9, 2024#285

O

oldntired55

but, even now it seems i have strayed from the original problem in your post... "awful banging" noise... sounds internal for sure...

Jul 9, 2024#286

J

JimP2014

oldntired55 said:
but, even now it seems i have strayed from the original problem in your post... "awful banging" noise... sounds internal for sure...

So many things have changed every single day. I can say right now 2 days ago there was no banging. There was just hunting and surging and then I blew out the spark plug. So I swap the cylinder head for a 14.5 horsepower. Briggs cylinder head and now the current problem is I turn the ignition key. I'm getting spark to the spark plug but the flywheel just turns until it runs out of battery power for the starter. I also just made a video not only of that but also with the valve cover off. What's going on where the Piston rods and the rocker arms and everything looks good and I'm going to try and upload that video very soon.

So to recap right now a very old cylinder head onto the 19.5 horsepower Briggs engine. Everything matches up except the 14.5 horsepower engine does not have the beefiness of the cylinder head for the 19.5 horsepower engine, but everything else lines up. The head gasket is in place. The valves are adjusted. The Piston rods are doing what they're supposed to do. The valve clearances I believe are correct but the flywheel just rotates and nothing else happens.

Jul 9, 2024#287

J

JimP2014

I'm trying to determine say without using a leak down test apparatus. What's going on internally with the engine so right now on July 9th around 7:15 a.m. at some point soon I plan figure out why the flywheel keeps rotating. The spark plug does have spark but the engine does not start. The flywheel just keeps turning but other than purchasing a compression tester I'm hoping that's all I need to purchase further. If I need this other test apparatus then I'm just hoping that I don't need it actually unless you can't figure out what's wrong unless you get a leak down tester too. This I don't know. Also, just to be clear, before I swapped in the old older cylinder head, there was no banging going on. It started up instantly and there was hunting and surging only. But the spark plug blew out because I destroyed the threads on the cylinder head by doing many many tests. So that's why I have a new cylinder head which is not brand new. It's from an older machine but it fits

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#288

J

JimP2014

oldntired55 said:
but, even now it seems i have strayed from the original problem in your post... "awful banging" noise... sounds internal for sure...

Just to be clear, the awful banging went away say a couple days ago and I can't explain why. Maybe it had to do with carburetor cleaner. It is just very confusing and the symptoms change seemingly on a daily basis and I'm trying to figure all that out

Jul 9, 2024#289

F

Forest#2

It's not time to pull the flywheel AGAIN and also do not remove the head yet.
No need in guessing about things yet.

You already know the three things needed for a engine to try to run.

Since you do not have a compression tester you can do this test to feel for compression W/O removing the spark plug for now.

leave the key off and remove the spark plug boot/wire from the spark plug. (we are making sure the engine does not try to start while fingers are around the flywheel fan)

Turn the engine over by hand manually CW looking down onto the top of engine or by using a socket on the flywheel bolt.
Every other revolution of the flywheel you should feel the piston start having back pressure (compression and push itself through TDC) keep fingers out of the plastic fan.
This lets you know that the INTAKE valve is opening some and fully closing (sealing) and that the exhaust valve is holding compression.

If you do not feel any compression fighting you when manually rotating the flywheel, back the INTAKE valve lash off to .010-,012 and try same test.
If still no compression set the EX valve lash to .012 and test. If neither of these gets compression a valve is not sealing/seating.

Let us know what you find?

Jul 9, 2024#290

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
It's not time to pull the flywheel AGAIN and also do not remove the head yet.
No need in guessing about things yet.

You already know the three things needed for a engine to try to run.

Since you do not have a compression tester you can do this test to feel for compression W/O removing the spark plug for now.

leave the key off and remove the spark plug boot/wire from the spark plug. (we are making sure the engine does not try to start while fingers are around the flywheel fan)

Turn the engine over by hand manually CW looking down onto the top of engine or by using a socket on the flywheel bolt.
Every other revolution of the flywheel you should feel the piston start having back pressure (compression and push itself through TDC) keep fingers out of the plastic fan.
This lets you know that the INTAKE valve is opening some and fully closing (sealing) and that the exhaust valve is holding compression.

If you do not feel any compression fighting you when manually rotating the flywheel, back the INTAKE valve lash off to .010-,012 and try same test.
If still no compression set the EX valve lash to .012 and test. If neither of these gets compression a valve is not sealing/seating.

Let us know what you find?

I am sorry I have a compression tester when I don't have is called the leak down tester which is different. But you think I should test for compression because the compression tester I just bought I own that

Jul 9, 2024#291

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I am sorry I have a compression tester when I don't have is called the leak down tester which is different. But you think I should test for compression because the compression tester I just bought I own that

Compression tester. I own that

Leak down tester. I do not own that

Jul 9, 2024#292

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Compression tester. I own that

Leak down tester. I do not own that

Forest good call 35 PSI

Jul 9, 2024#293

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest good call 35 PSI

Let me provide more context. So this is the very old cylinder head from a 14.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton engine. The screw holes did align perfectly with a 19.5 horsepower Briggs engine, but maybe there's something different because obviously there is very little compression. The original cylinder had at least provided 85 psi so maybe look into that. Helicoil kit so that I could go back to the correct cylinder head because the spark plug is pretty much blown out.

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#294

T

TobyU

JimP2014 said:
Just to be clear, the awful banging went away say a couple days ago and I can't explain why. Maybe it had to do with carburetor cleaner. It is just very confusing and the symptoms change seemingly on a daily basis and I'm trying to figure all that out

There's a whole lot of jumping around and grasping it straws here throughout the thread.
A good diagnostic procedure is almost more important than knowing how to actually do the work to fix one. Lol

I think I read through all the highlights of what's been done but it all boils down to you have spark and the engine is spinning and when you give it an external fuel source it does not run so therefore it is not mechanically sound to run.
That's what I call it and every time an engine comes my way that won't start a run, the fastest way to diagnose it is to give an external fuel source and see if it runs or not for a couple of seconds.

In your case we know it's not mechanically sound at this time to run so the next thing would be spark which it seems you have ruled out and you have spark.

The next thing, and all too common on these Brigs single piston ohv engines would be valvetrain or head issues.
I just lump all this into the same category including camshaft problems.

You don't need compression testers or leak down testers etc..
All you have to do is take the spark plug out, and with a comments about the threads stripping out and it blowing out the spark plug, either a plug has been cross threaded and forced in or it's been over tightened many times.
Please don't have to be that type. In fact with a brand new plug once you tighten it and the gasket touches, one half turn is plenty.
I have had engines for the spark plug has been out literally hundreds of times and the threads are still fine so be careful about the installation and how tight you go.
All you do is take the plug out then take the tip of your finger and stick it into the tip of the hole.
Crank the engine over and it should go blow blow blow blow blow at a regular pace and blow your finger out every time.
It should never have a pause and then a double blow and it should never try to suck your finger back in the hole.

This is the first basic procedure and if it blows you'll figure out where you really can't hold the pressure in, it has enough compression to run.

If it still isn't running, which we assume it would not be but this test looks good, you have to consider some sort of timing issue which could be camshaft valve timing or it could be the flywheel position timing too with the key.

Seems you've checked the flywheel key and it looked fine.
Busy just have lousy camshafts. Mostly they have a lousy ACR on the camshaft but they can also have problems with the lobes of the camshaft ESPECIALLY the aftermarket ones..
I have one laying around here somewhere that was only in a mower for 3 months it was only used for about 8 or 9 hours total that you could take at least one of the lobes on the camshaft and spin it around and around on the shaft. It's got a little clickiness as it goes past each little spline but of course they're stripped off.
This is beyond pathetic when we're talking about a situation where the valve spring pressure is barely in pounds with almost no pressure and it shouldn't be hard for the lobe to stay exactly where it's supposed to be but this happens because people make junk and poorly design items.

It's really hard to tell by looking if the timing from the camshaft opening the valves is correct unless you have another engine very similar to it to sit side by side and watch the valves move because these engines are not timed like a car or like you would expect.
They have such low compression ratio and in order to make them able to spit over even with the acr, the intake valve is open far longer than you would expect after the piston gets to bottom dead center suck again in the air.
On most types of similar engines with valves like this, you would find that the valve closes when the Piston gets to the bottom so all of it's upward travel can result in compression but these small air-cooled lawn mower engines don't do that.
The piston starts it's upward travel and moves a whole lot in my opinion and it's sometimes over halfway up before that valve actually closes.
I'm not just talking about the ACR either which in this case is on the intake valve but even other engines where are the exhaust has been used for the ACR, it's just amazing how inefficiently they are designed but as I always say, they are low performance little turds.

If your engine will blow your finger out of the spark plug hole with a nice deal of force and your vows are set even somewhat close then I suspect you have a camshaft issue.

Make sure you are setting the valves the correct way as some people simply refuse to do it basically the Briggs & Stratton recommended way and insist on applying previous experience or car style setting to it.

Make absolutely certain you are looking at the proper valve and thinking about it the right way because the intake valve is not on top. It is counterintuitive. The exhaust valve is on top and the intake is on the bottom

Also, make sure you're actually on top dead center of the compression stroke and not top of the exhaust stroke.
Then go that half inch past top dead center which in effect you can go 3 in past if you want because nothing happens until you get all the way to the bottom and then the exhaust valve starts to open but you have to make sure you go at least that half inch down so you'll be away from the ACR ramp.
Then you set them both and then you need to turn it over a few times and put it back at the proper position again to double check them because they almost always move a little bit and actually they always almost move when you're tighten up the locking part of the adjusting nut.

No adjustment in the world though is going to solve your problem if the camshaft lobes have jumped.

Jul 9, 2024#295

T

TobyU

I also forgot to mention that we need to get some universal terminology consistent here.
The title of your thread says Briggs & Stratton engine won't turn over but it does seem that the engine is turning over and spitting just fine through all of the posts.
People often use different terms and phrases to describe what their engines are doing and it causes great confusion and hinders the diagnostic process.
If when you turn the key or pull the rope on a lawn mower engine and the engine spins but does not start, it is spinning, turning over etc.

It is simply not starting, taking off, getting up to full speed etc.

Now if you turn the key and nothing happens or it just clicks or barely moves etc, then it is not turning over.

People often use the term "catch" also which should not be used regarding lawn mower or engines at all.
There is no catching.
There is a starter Bendix or gear engaging the flywheel gear and turning it or attempting to turning it but this is never what they mean when they use the word catch. They mean the engine is spinning over or turning over and over typically but not taking off and running on its own.
Catch should not be used for this description.

This has always been an issue among people when describing what engines are doing and it causes great confusion and slows down the diagnostic process.

It gets even worse. I will have customers call me who have figured out they have some sort of belt issue on the rider.
They sometimes have no idea that there's more than one belt but even when they do, they will often refer to the wrong belt.
They repeatedly talk about the belt for the blades when they have a mower sitting there that they can start and run but will not move around the yard!

I have to break it down and ask absolute specific questions to even determine which belt is messed up and walk the mower will or won't do at that particular time.

Jul 9, 2024#296

M

Mark H_NO

Jim, it's good to see that the key is whole. It sounds like currently you have a compression problem. I think investigating the Heli-coil for the original head is a good idea.

Jul 9, 2024#297

F

Forest#2

Just a hint.
If you decide to have someone fix the spark plug thread hole on your old head you might consider telling them to also fix the stripped out valve cover bolt hole.
Another hint. You need to get a feel for when you are about to ruin threads, especially in aluminum. It's quite common to strip them long reach spark plugs threads when REMOVING a plug because the bottom few threads have hard carbon and when you just keep wrenching out the plug the carbon caked on the end of the plugs threads is removing the threads in the head. Gently work the plug bolt, stud or whatever back and forth even when removing from aluminum.
Another hint:
What I suggested about feeling for compression W/O even removing the spark plug is a fast test for really weak compression. With 35 lbs you could have spun the engine easily by hand manually. With 85 psi you would have FELT THE manual force required to bring the flywheel up to 85 psi pressure.
Another fast way to test for weak compression With Out a leak down tester:
If you had a source of air pressure at about 20-25 psi to inject into the spark plug hole with the piston held at TDC you would be able to hear where the air is leaking. Example: air out carb = intake valve, Air out muffler = exhaust valve. Air going into crankcase past the rings is normal.

The camshaft that TobyU mentioned is really wimpy and a weak link on that model engine, cam lobe lift wearing down, compression release breaking and the $35 China clone replacements are not worth the effort. BUT I did see that you measured the lift and it appeared ok comparing Intake to Exhaust and the engine was not compression locking when cranking which indicates the ACR is probably ok.

Another hint:
When you remove the valve cover check and make sure that a push rod is not bent. (You do not want to re-use bent push rods) Whichever rod is bent is a hint as to the bad valve guide, If a valve guide is bad and pushed into the head this sometimes causes a push rod to bend and the push rod can fall into the crankcase. Most likely using that head give you a hint as to some of the donor engines problems.

If the grass is growing while you are flogging that dog:
You might have to invest in one of them new BATTERY OPERATED Briggs engines. (or convert that one to electric only)

Jul 9, 2024#298

J

JimP2014

TobyU said:
I also forgot to mention that we need to get some universal terminology consistent here.
The title of your thread says Briggs & Stratton engine won't turn over but it does seem that the engine is turning over and spitting just fine through all of the posts.
People often use different terms and phrases to describe what their engines are doing and it causes great confusion and hinders the diagnostic process.
If when you turn the key or pull the rope on a lawn mower engine and the engine spins but does not start, it is spinning, turning over etc.

It is simply not starting, taking off, getting up to full speed etc.

Now if you turn the key and nothing happens or it just clicks or barely moves etc, then it is not turning over.

People often use the term "catch" also which should not be used regarding lawn mower or engines at all.
There is no catching.
There is a starter Bendix or gear engaging the flywheel gear and turning it or attempting to turning it but this is never what they mean when they use the word catch. They mean the engine is spinning over or turning over and over typically but not taking off and running on its own.
Catch should not be used for this description.

This has always been an issue among people when describing what engines are doing and it causes great confusion and slows down the diagnostic process.

It gets even worse. I will have customers call me who have figured out they have some sort of belt issue on the rider.
They sometimes have no idea that there's more than one belt but even when they do, they will often refer to the wrong belt.
They repeatedly talk about the belt for the blades when they have a mower sitting there that they can start and run but will not move around the yard!

I have to break it down and ask absolute specific questions to even determine which belt is messed up and walk the mower will or won't do at that particular time.

Hi Toby, somehow I missed this. I just found it in my email a little while ago and I will read it. I mean it's pretty exhaustive and I'm sure it's complete. The one question I have for you and this got back to the crankshaft or the cam shaft possibly being bent or damaged and I think it was a camshaft. Keep in mind I'm not a mechanic but what I just read about an hour ago was if you're rotating the flywheel and the push rod for the intake. As you rotate the flywheel it has a little bump where it's going out and then it goes back in and I'm talking about the rock around. I think the rocker arm or maybe it's the push rod. But either way it's called the bump that bump happens. So I'm wondering if that proves anything that something is not broken or bent or along those lines. And I'm getting that cylinder head the original one fixed at a machine shop for the spark plug issue. But thanks again. I will read this with fresh eyes, everything you wrote.

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#299

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hi Toby, somehow I missed this. I just found it in my email a little while ago and I will read it. I mean it's pretty exhaustive and I'm sure it's complete. The one question I have for you and this got back to the crankshaft or the cam shaft possibly being bent or damaged and I think it was a camshaft. Keep in mind I'm not a mechanic but what I just read about an hour ago was if you're rotating the flywheel and the push rod for the intake. As you rotate the flywheel it has a little bump where it's going out and then it goes back in and I'm talking about the rock around. I think the rocker arm or maybe it's the push rod. But either way it's called the bump that bump happens. So I'm wondering if that proves anything that something is not broken or bent or along those lines. And I'm getting that cylinder head the original one fixed at a machine shop for the spark plug issue. But thanks again. I will read this with fresh eyes, everything you wrote.

Jim

So I thought about what I just wrote and I have a better question is if you see where the rocker arm makes contact with a push rod and that bump definitely occurs. What can you conclude about the internal components of the engine? Can you say well if you have the bump then that means this is okay. If you have the bump that means that's okay. That's really what I'm asking?

Thanks ,

Jim

Jul 9, 2024#300

T

TobyU

JimP2014 said:
So I thought about what I just wrote and I have a better question is if you see where the rocker arm makes contact with a push rod and that bump definitely occurs. What can you conclude about the internal components of the engine? Can you say well if you have the bump then that means this is okay. If you have the bump that means that's okay. That's really what I'm asking?

Thanks ,

Jim

We call that the compression release bump or the ACR bump.
The camshaft has an automatic compression release built on to it very close to the intake lifter lobe.
At low RPMs it kicks a small little finger out which protrudes out past the base circle of the camshaft in the spot where it's fastened.
This little finger causes the lifter to bump out right after the intake valve closes as the engine turns.
Has the engine gets up above a couple of hundred RPMs , centripetal force overrides the pressure of the little spring that holds this finger out normally and then it no longer protrudes past the camshaft love at any position so the valve smoothly opens and closes without any bump.

This is why on many of these engines if you take the air filter out and start them you will hear a little muffled popping sound coming out of the intake when they're cranking and when they first start to spin up to speed running on their own. You will also hear this when you turn off the key if the air filter is off especially and as the engine coasts down before it stops spinning.

This is simply that little finger being pushed back out by the spring because the RPMs are slow enough and it's allowing some of the air to puff back out of the intake valve which blows out of the air filter.

Looking for this compression release bump is the way you can tell if the ACR is busted but it doesn't tell you anything about the valve timing from the cam.
A camshaft could have been installed incorrectly if you don't know the history of the engine without the dots lining up or more commonly, one or both of the lobes could have slipped and are no longer in their proper position in relation to the camshaft shaft and gear.

Typically if you have one of these problems you will either hear an abnormally funny noise coming from the middle or the rocker cover of the engine and you will also typically have some sort of popping or backfiring either out the exhaust or the intake that just doesn't sound right either.

That's because the piston is still going up and down like it's supposed to and maybe one of the valves is operating properly but the other one is either closing way too early or way too late and depending on how this works out, you're either going to get some combustion blowing out the exhaust or the intake or some sort of kickback.

These engines really aren't that complicated so there's got to be something that we're all missing and overlooking because we're not there to check it out in person.

This is why I'm hung up on a consistent and systematic troubleshooting approach every time.
It gets me to the root of the problem the quickest way possible.

If you have spark and the Piston is going up and down and you have compression that will blow your finger out of the spark plug hole and it doesn't suck your finger back in the hole...and you give it an external fuel source like some carb cleaner spray into the intake....THEN it should do something that sounds like combustion, backfire, popping, trying to run, etc.
Once you know that the flywheel key is not shared and you have all of the above things, about the only thing it can be is the timing messed up on the valve train from the camshaft somehow not opening the valves at the correct time.

I really can't think of anything else that could do it.

You might try spending the engine over by hand with the valve cover off until the valve starts to open or even starts to close and then put some extra pressure with your thumb and a rag as hard as you can pushing down on the pushrod side of the rocker arm.

I didn't actually test it but I'm pretty certain the one with the Chinese camshaft that was slipping would have made a clicky ratcheting sound and the rocker arm would have been able to be pushed and pushed the push rod down had I have tried this.
I know once I had the camshaft out in my hand, I could easily rotate at least one of the lobes around the shaft even though it was knurled and supposed to stay pressed on in one spot.

Jul 9, 2024#301

J

JimP2014

TobyU said:
We call that the compression release bump or the ACR bump.
The camshaft has an automatic compression release built on to it very close to the intake lifter lobe.
At low RPMs it kicks a small little finger out which protrudes out past the base circle of the camshaft in the spot where it's fastened.
This little finger causes the lifter to bump out right after the intake valve closes as the engine turns.
Has the engine gets up above a couple of hundred RPMs , centripetal force overrides the pressure of the little spring that holds this finger out normally and then it no longer protrudes past the camshaft love at any position so the valve smoothly opens and closes without any bump.

This is why on many of these engines if you take the air filter out and start them you will hear a little muffled popping sound coming out of the intake when they're cranking and when they first start to spin up to speed running on their own. You will also hear this when you turn off the key if the air filter is off especially and as the engine coasts down before it stops spinning.

This is simply that little finger being pushed back out by the spring because the RPMs are slow enough and it's allowing some of the air to puff back out of the intake valve which blows out of the air filter.

Looking for this compression release bump is the way you can tell if the ACR is busted but it doesn't tell you anything about the valve timing from the cam.
A camshaft could have been installed incorrectly if you don't know the history of the engine without the dots lining up or more commonly, one or both of the lobes could have slipped and are no longer in their proper position in relation to the camshaft shaft and gear.

Typically if you have one of these problems you will either hear an abnormally funny noise coming from the middle or the rocker cover of the engine and you will also typically have some sort of popping or backfiring either out the exhaust or the intake that just doesn't sound right either.

That's because the piston is still going up and down like it's supposed to and maybe one of the valves is operating properly but the other one is either closing way too early or way too late and depending on how this works out, you're either going to get some combustion blowing out the exhaust or the intake or some sort of kickback.

These engines really aren't that complicated so there's got to be something that we're all missing and overlooking because we're not there to check it out in person.

This is why I'm hung up on a consistent and systematic troubleshooting approach every time.
It gets me to the root of the problem the quickest way possible.

If you have spark and the Piston is going up and down and you have compression that will blow your finger out of the spark plug hole and it doesn't suck your finger back in the hole...and you give it an external fuel source like some carb cleaner spray into the intake....THEN it should do something that sounds like combustion, backfire, popping, trying to run, etc.
Once you know that the flywheel key is not shared and you have all of the above things, about the only thing it can be is the timing messed up on the valve train from the camshaft somehow not opening the valves at the correct time.

I really can't think of anything else that could do it.

You might try spending the engine over by hand with the valve cover off until the valve starts to open or even starts to close and then put some extra pressure with your thumb and a rag as hard as you can pushing down on the pushrod side of the rocker arm.

I didn't actually test it but I'm pretty certain the one with the Chinese camshaft that was slipping would have made a clicky ratcheting sound and the rocker arm would have been able to be pushed and pushed the push rod down had I have tried this.
I know once I had the camshaft out in my hand, I could easily rotate at least one of the lobes around the shaft even though it was knurled and supposed to stay pressed on in one spot.

Okay Toby I did read this. I haven't gone over your first post. You did mention about the camshaft so basically the removal of the camshaft.

So in the past 6 weeks I have seen fire coming out of the intake. I have seen smoke coming out of the intake but not testing everyday. It's random, seemingly and sporadic. I have heard loud banging coming from the engine. I've heard explosions coming from the engine I've seen hunting and surging. I have seen 800° f on the exhaust pipe. Sometimes I've seen 500° Fahrenheit on the exhaust pipe. It's like the symptoms don't always carry over to the next day. The last time it was running 2 days ago it sounded like the engine was cheap. There was hunting and surging going on. It did start up instantly and with in maybe a minute the exhaust pipe got up to 800° f.

Now I'm not an engine mechanic but it feels like a person has a broken arm on day one. They go to sleep the next day. They have a broken leg and there's no more broken arm. It's just very weird and I don't have the background to understand how all this is coming about and why it's happening, but not all of of the symptoms carry through to the next day you would think if something's broken it's broken. It's broken the next day. It's broken the third Day but maybe there's an explanation why all these symptoms keep swapping in and swapping out. I'm going to get the new or should I say repaired cylinder head. Hopefully tomorrow I'm going to put it all back together now. I'm expecting if nothing changed to start right up to hunt and surge and an exhaust pipe of 800° f within maybe a minute or less. That's what I'm expecting but if I go back to fire coming out of the intake and explosions then I don't get it. Maybe maybe because I'm unwilling to take the whole engine apart and look inside what's going on because I really don't know how to do that. It could get back to where my feeling is. If there are external components that I could could improve upon through adjustment than great. I want to keep going on that. If there's something definitely internally wrong then I'm not going to mess around with things I really don't know. So then at that point I say the engines garbage even though it's not to someone who's a serious mechanic. But for my purpose is it's garbage because I'm not going to attempt to fix it. So I've been going with a theory that it's all external stuff that just needs to be tweaked adjusted and properly set in some way.

You obviously provide a lot of information that's useful and a lot of that goes into someone who is willing to take apart the engine, the internal aspect of it and look things over. And I'm really just someone who wants to cut the lawn and you know you can't have your cake and eat it too. So I get that part. But that's where that stands and tomorrow I'll have a better idea.

Jim

Jul 10, 2024#302

T

TobyU

JimP2014 said:
Okay Toby I did read this. I haven't gone over your first post. You did mention about the camshaft so basically the removal of the camshaft.

So in the past 6 weeks I have seen fire coming out of the intake. I have seen smoke coming out of the intake but not testing everyday. It's random, seemingly and sporadic. I have heard loud banging coming from the engine. I've heard explosions coming from the engine I've seen hunting and surging. I have seen 800° f on the exhaust pipe. Sometimes I've seen 500° Fahrenheit on the exhaust pipe. It's like the symptoms don't always carry over to the next day. The last time it was running 2 days ago it sounded like the engine was cheap. There was hunting and surging going on. It did start up instantly and with in maybe a minute the exhaust pipe got up to 800° f.

Now I'm not an engine mechanic but it feels like a person has a broken arm on day one. They go to sleep the next day. They have a broken leg and there's no more broken arm. It's just very weird and I don't have the background to understand how all this is coming about and why it's happening, but not all of of the symptoms carry through to the next day you would think if something's broken it's broken. It's broken the next day. It's broken the third Day but maybe there's an explanation why all these symptoms keep swapping in and swapping out. I'm going to get the new or should I say repaired cylinder head. Hopefully tomorrow I'm going to put it all back together now. I'm expecting if nothing changed to start right up to hunt and surge and an exhaust pipe of 800° f within maybe a minute or less. That's what I'm expecting but if I go back to fire coming out of the intake and explosions then I don't get it. Maybe maybe because I'm unwilling to take the whole engine apart and look inside what's going on because I really don't know how to do that. It could get back to where my feeling is. If there are external components that I could could improve upon through adjustment than great. I want to keep going on that. If there's something definitely internally wrong then I'm not going to mess around with things I really don't know. So then at that point I say the engines garbage even though it's not to someone who's a serious mechanic. But for my purpose is it's garbage because I'm not going to attempt to fix it. So I've been going with a theory that it's all external stuff that just needs to be tweaked adjusted and properly set in some way.

You obviously provide a lot of information that's useful and a lot of that goes into someone who is willing to take apart the engine, the internal aspect of it and look things over. And I'm really just someone who wants to cut the lawn and you know you can't have your cake and eat it too. So I get that part. But that's where that stands and tomorrow I'll have a better idea.

Jim

That is a very odd situation if it's that inconsistent.
I have never seen one of these that wants the camshaft lobe slipped, that would ever run anywhere near properly or even continue to spend enough to call it running after this happened.
It's pretty much like when one gets a bent push rod or a rocker arm stud loosened up or other valve train issues.
They will pop once or twice and then they will die. After that all they will do is crank and maybe pop.

I never advise people to do any work they're not certain of being needed.
I never advise the average owner to start tearing it anything and take anything apart unless we are 95 to 98% certain we know what the problem is.
Too many times I see owners with their mowers start taking stuff apart and they're not even in the right vicinity of where they need to be considering a potential problem!

The exhaust temperatures you are quoting me got my attention because none of that is important and you never hear anybody talking about this as far as repairs or techs etc.

I have absolutely no idea what any of the tens of thousands of lawn mower engines I have worked on have for exhaust temperatures. Lol
I do know off the top of my head what is considered hi for EGT due to having a little bit of experience with some Rotax engines and reading about some Ultralight aircraft etc.

It's just never been a concern for mower engines so there's never a reason to measure it.
Yes, if they're lean the EGT will be higher and if they're rich it will be lower and there are also some patterns if the ignition timing is advanced or retarded but you don't need to check the temperature to do any of this.

Far more accurate, quicker and easier to diagnose a rich condition by the sound and how it's running and slightly restricting some air flow into the intake to see what it does.

I would love to investigate your engine in person because it seems to be a really unique situation.

If it continues to run it all in the next few days about the only thing I can think of that makes sense would be a popped valve seat and since you said it was blowing fire out the intake more than likely on the intake valve.
I recall you have switched heads on this so unless that only started occurring with the current head, this possibility makes less sense.

I have certainly seen engines though that will run fine for a period of time and then the valve seat will pop out and then they won't run it all or they'll pop quite a bit before they die. Then after a few revolutions etc the valve seat magically works its way back in to the head and seals up enough to run.

Jul 11, 2024#303

J

JimP2014

TobyU said:
That is a very odd situation if it's that inconsistent.
I have never seen one of these that wants the camshaft lobe slipped, that would ever run anywhere near properly or even continue to spend enough to call it running after this happened.
It's pretty much like when one gets a bent push rod or a rocker arm stud loosened up or other valve train issues.
They will pop once or twice and then they will die. After that all they will do is crank and maybe pop.

I never advise people to do any work they're not certain of being needed.
I never advise the average owner to start tearing it anything and take anything apart unless we are 95 to 98% certain we know what the problem is.
Too many times I see owners with their mowers start taking stuff apart and they're not even in the right vicinity of where they need to be considering a potential problem!

The exhaust temperatures you are quoting me got my attention because none of that is important and you never hear anybody talking about this as far as repairs or techs etc.

I have absolutely no idea what any of the tens of thousands of lawn mower engines I have worked on have for exhaust temperatures. Lol
I do know off the top of my head what is considered hi for EGT due to having a little bit of experience with some Rotax engines and reading about some Ultralight aircraft etc.

It's just never been a concern for mower engines so there's never a reason to measure it.
Yes, if they're lean the EGT will be higher and if they're rich it will be lower and there are also some patterns if the ignition timing is advanced or retarded but you don't need to check the temperature to do any of this.

Far more accurate, quicker and easier to diagnose a rich condition by the sound and how it's running and slightly restricting some air flow into the intake to see what it does.

I would love to investigate your engine in person because it seems to be a really unique situation.

If it continues to run it all in the next few days about the only thing I can think of that makes sense would be a popped valve seat and since you said it was blowing fire out the intake more than likely on the intake valve.
I recall you have switched heads on this so unless that only started occurring with the current head, this possibility makes less sense.

I have certainly seen engines though that will run fine for a period of time and then the valve seat will pop out and then they won't run it all or they'll pop quite a bit before they die. Then after a few revolutions etc the valve seat magically works its way back in to the head and seals up enough to run.

Hi Toby, I did see this on Wednesday. I got the cylinder head back with essentially a brand new spark plug hole, but I haven't done anything further except without a highly specialized test. I disconnected the quarter inch fuel line from the carburetor and I do have a shut-off valve so after allowing the fuel to flow into a container I let it run for like maybe 45 seconds and the flow was perfect. So unless I did something wrong I believe I can eliminate something like sporadic fuel flow into the carburetor.

I will read everything you wrote above when I'm in front of a PC.

So what I am expecting at the very least is reinstall the cylinder head that goes with a 19.5 horsepower engine. The spark plug is already in the spark plug hole and it's brand new and right before I destroy the spark plug hole I was able to get the engine to start almost instantly and then it went into its hunting and surging. So I'm expecting that but from what I've learned it could be anything that's going to happen, including fire out of the intake. Loud explosions banging. Who knows, but that's where this is at.
Jim

Jul 11, 2024#304

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Hi Toby, I did see this on Wednesday. I got the cylinder head back with essentially a brand new spark plug hole, but I haven't done anything further except without a highly specialized test. I disconnected the quarter inch fuel line from the carburetor and I do have a shut-off valve so after allowing the fuel to flow into a container I let it run for like maybe 45 seconds and the flow was perfect. So unless I did something wrong I believe I can eliminate something like sporadic fuel flow into the carburetor.

I will read everything you wrote above when I'm in front of a PC.

So what I am expecting at the very least is reinstall the cylinder head that goes with a 19.5 horsepower engine. The spark plug is already in the spark plug hole and it's brand new and right before I destroy the spark plug hole I was able to get the engine to start almost instantly and then it went into its hunting and surging. So I'm expecting that but from what I've learned it could be anything that's going to happen, including fire out of the intake. Loud explosions banging. Who knows, but that's where this is at.
Jim

I'm going to add some text just to be clear. So essentially 3 days ago I was at the stage where the engine started up instantly and then it went into its hunting and surging. That is the last set of symptoms and then what happened because I destroyed the spark plug hole. Is the spark plug flew out and then I tested with another cylinder head off a different engine and that had pretty much no compression. So I had the really good cylinder head fixed with a problem with the spark plug hole and before I destroy the spark plug hole that compression was about 85 PSI. So I'm hoping if I can reinstall all that today that I'm back to at least 85 PSI and and if that's true, I'm probably back to instant startup but then hunting and surging but I've learned it could be anything which of course makes no sense.

Jim

Jul 11, 2024#305

T

TobyU

JimP2014 said:
I'm going to add some text just to be clear. So essentially 3 days ago I was at the stage where the engine started up instantly and then it went into its hunting and surging. That is the last set of symptoms and then what happened because I destroyed the spark plug hole. Is the spark plug flew out and then I tested with another cylinder head off a different engine and that had pretty much no compression. So I had the really good cylinder head fixed with a problem with the spark plug hole and before I destroy the spark plug hole that compression was about 85 PSI. So I'm hoping if I can reinstall all that today that I'm back to at least 85 PSI and and if that's true, I'm probably back to instant startup but then hunting and surging but I've learned it could be anything which of course makes no sense.

Jim

If it goes back to running but surging and hunting for a proper speed, take you a shot cloth or a microfiber towel and fold it into fourths and lay it for it restricts the intake hole under the air filter. This should reaching up the mixture a little bit or you can also try moving your lever to add some choke.
If it gets better when you're rich in the mixture either way, you know it is running lean.
This is normally case for hunting idle.
This means your jet is partially restricted in your carburetor..
We can worry about cleaning this out after we know if the engine starts and runs but surges.

Jul 11, 2024#306

J

JimP2014

TobyU said:
If it goes back to running but surging and hunting for a proper speed, take you a shot cloth or a microfiber towel and fold it into fourths and lay it for it restricts the intake hole under the air filter. This should reaching up the mixture a little bit or you can also try moving your lever to add some choke.
If it gets better when you're rich in the mixture either way, you know it is running lean.
This is normally case for hunting idle.
This means your jet is partially restricted in your carburetor..
We can worry about cleaning this out after we know if the engine starts

TobyU said:
If it goes back to running but surging and hunting for a proper speed, take you a shot cloth or a microfiber towel and fold it into fourths and lay it for it restricts the intake hole under the air filter. This should reaching up the mixture a little bit or you can also try moving your lever to add some choke.
If it gets better when you're rich in the mixture either way, you know it is running lean.
This is normally case for hunting idle.
This means your jet is partially restricted in your carburetor..
We can worry about cleaning this out after we know if the engine starts and runs but surges.

Toby, thanks for this reply. A few weeks ago I bought a brand new carburetor for it and what had happened was when I began using the brand new carburetor nothing changed. So for whatever reason the carburetor that was running the best was the older one so that is still inside the engine. Now tomorrow I should have everything put back together. The only thing really left that's somewhat challenging is setting the valve clearance, but everything else is in place I could very easily. Begin with that brand new carburetor that I have there is. I believe nothing wrong with it. There certainly won't be a problem with it, Jets or anything else inside it. However, how well is it built and all that compared to the one that's been in the engine for 3 years that I don't know? This morning I went out and I was hoping there was a problem with the fuel line in some way but there absolutely is not. So when the fuel is allowed to flow I got a bucket and the hose that would connect into the carburetor was now pouring gas into this bucket. There was no obstruction. I ran it like this for like 45 seconds because I wanted to keep the gas I have for now anyways because that gas is like brand new. The whole tank has been thoroughly cleaned. There's nothing inside the tank and there was brand new gas in it say about a week ago. When I put the cylinder head back the one that had the spark plug blown out of it. That whole install as far as I'm concerned went very well. I bought all new gaskets for the cylinder head and all the stuff around it. It comes with this gasket kit designed for the cylinder head. The only thing I can't do right now is put the muffler back because it goes inside a cage which would need me to remove the cylinder head which I just put on. So I'm just going to leave that but I can get an exhaust pipe onto the exhaust manifold for the cylinder head part ignition coil that air gap is like 101,000 of an inch. Spark plug is brand new. The only thing is if I use the brand new carburetor I might swap the solenoid which is currently in place because the tip of that plunger thing is cut off and I want it that way for now to rule out any weird thing going on with the electronic fuel solenoid. I want constant gas flowing and just keep track of that meaning for me.

Jim

Jul 11, 2024#307

T

TobyU

JimP2014 said:
Toby, thanks for this reply. A few weeks ago I bought a brand new carburetor for it and what had happened was when I began using the brand new carburetor nothing changed. So for whatever reason the carburetor that was running the best was the older one so that is still inside the engine. Now tomorrow I should have everything put back together. The only thing really left that's somewhat challenging is setting the valve clearance, but everything else is in place I could very easily. Begin with that brand new carburetor that I have there is. I believe nothing wrong with it. There certainly won't be a problem with it, Jets or anything else inside it. However, how well is it built and all that compared to the one that's been in the engine for 3 years that I don't know? This morning I went out and I was hoping there was a problem with the fuel line in some way but there absolutely is not. So when the fuel is allowed to flow I got a bucket and the hose that would connect into the carburetor was now pouring gas into this bucket. There was no obstruction. I ran it like this for like 45 seconds because I wanted to keep the gas I have for now anyways because that gas is like brand new. The whole tank has been thoroughly cleaned. There's nothing inside the tank and there was brand new gas in it say about a week ago. When I put the cylinder head back the one that had the spark plug blown out of it. That whole install as far as I'm concerned went very well. I bought all new gaskets for the cylinder head and all the stuff around it. It comes with this gasket kit designed for the cylinder head. The only thing I can't do right now is put the muffler back because it goes inside a cage which would need me to remove the cylinder head which I just put on. So I'm just going to leave that but I can get an exhaust pipe onto the exhaust manifold for the cylinder head part ignition coil that air gap is like 101,000 of an inch. Spark plug is brand new. The only thing is if I use the brand new carburetor I might swap the solenoid which is currently in place because the tip of that plunger thing is cut off and I want it that way for now to rule out any weird thing going on with the electronic fuel solenoid. I want constant gas flowing and just keep track of that meaning for me.

Jim

New doesn't mean right... Especially with eBay and even more so amazon carbs.
I NEVER recommend replacing carbs as opposed to cleaning it the old ones or fixing them because sometimes the new ones don't run correctly and you are almost always installing a worse quality carb than you are taking off.
People are obsessed with "throwing a new carb on".
I do hundreds of carbs a season and haven't replaced over 3 in the last 10 years. Lol

Jul 11, 2024#308

J

JimP2014

TobyU said:
New doesn't mean right... Especially with eBay and even more so amazon carbs.
I NEVER recommend replacing carbs as opposed to cleaning it the old ones or fixing them because sometimes the new ones don't run correctly and you are almost always installing a worse quality carb than you are taking off.
People are obsessed with "throwing a new carb on".
I do hundreds of carbs a season and haven't replaced over 3 in the last 10 years. Lol

Toby, when I got this engine the entire machine should I say it was destroyed? So 3 years ago I purchased a brand new carburetor on Amazon. That carburetor has been awesome for the last 3 years. But I will admit the problem is I can't figure out which one it is that I ordered back then. Also, I have seen so many videos and so many topics including carburetors for Briggs& Stratton engines. I've seen people that hate the Nikki carburetor and say they should all switch to the wall. Bro carburetor. So if I end up cleaning the carburetor that is currently on the machine right now I just want you to know I will be cleaning an Amazon so to speak carburetor the only problem is like I said I can't figure out which one it is and I agree with you if you don't get something safe from a certain vendor like walbro you end up getting an Amazon sponsored carburetor. It could be maybe from 10 different places to make carburetors for the Briggs& Stratton engine. They're all compatible but they're all from say a different machine shop. However that all goes which I don't know. The only thing I know is maybe 10 days ago. Because of all the strange things that were going on with the engine, I decided to purchase another carburetor on Amazon. I installed that carburetor and it run just as poorly or just as good as the other one. And you know my conclusion was that it was the same issue but I think you're saying maybe cleaning the one that's been on there for 3 years which I did get on Amazon. Which maybe is just. Let's call it potluck where I got the right one out of say 10 different vendors. Maybe cleaning that would be the solution. I don't have time to perform this test but a good test would be get a perfectly running engine and buy 10 carburetors on Amazon. All from different vendors. Install them and see which ones run and which ones. Don't sort of like consumer reports I guess but I don't have time to do any of that nor do I want to. I recently watched a video on a a flywheel which was a knockoff of a Briggs& Stratton flywheel and this flywheel which is not manufactured by Briggs& Stratton. The guy concluded it was better. If I could figure out exactly which carburetor Abbot 3 years ago or if there's some unusual markings on the ones currently installed on the Briggs& Stratton engine then I know that one works and maybe just go back to the original vendor where I got that from.

Jim
Send for my phone. Please excuse any typos above

Jul 11, 2024#309

J

JimP2014

Let me cut to the chase with this as to what I'm really saying. Maybe the one that's been in place for 3 years is just all messed up and the one I bought on Amazon say 10 days ago. It's just garbage and I thought they were essentially the same test but maybe they're not the same test. And I think that's maybe kind of like what you're saying. Clean the one you got.
Jim

Jul 12, 2024#310

J

JimP2014

Toby, thanks for the input and now that I'm totally more awake, you know I agree with what you're saying. Something goes wrong with the engine. Consider that one variable and then you still have that one variable. But now you introduce another variable some other carburetor. Now you got two variables. You had one but then you now have two and I'm very familiar with that. I will clean the carburetor but you don't really know the history of this. So 6 weeks ago everything was running great until the engine just stopped and it could have been lack of oil. And during that same event the exhaust pipe got so hot that the muffler separated from it in a couple days prior to that. What prompted me to do anything repair wise was there was a lot of smoke and it was either coming out of of the head gasket area or the valve cover gasket area. And I also did drain the oil maybe 2 months ago or maybe it was right around the same time as when all these issues all came about you don't know that because you read what I write. In any case, I'm going out in a couple hours and see if this thing runs but the only takeaway I can give you the more I think about all this there was no carburetor issue. It was really running very well. Say a couple months ago there was nothing going on except smoking and then from there I could have potentially made the whole thing worse because I didn't exactly know how to fix the smoking issue but the carburetor was not what caused every the engine is shut down while cutting. It was instant and the carburetor was perfect. But who knows, there's not. I'm not arguing with you about this. It's just a good idea to clean it and keep it the way it was. I just want you to know it probably wasn't the event that caused everything to go wrong, maybe 6 weeks ago.

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#311

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Toby, thanks for the input and now that I'm totally more awake, you know I agree with what you're saying. Something goes wrong with the engine. Consider that one variable and then you still have that one variable. But now you introduce another variable some other carburetor. Now you got two variables. You had one but then you now have two and I'm very familiar with that. I will clean the carburetor but you don't really know the history of this. So 6 weeks ago everything was running great until the engine just stopped and it could have been lack of oil. And during that same event the exhaust pipe got so hot that the muffler separated from it in a couple days prior to that. What prompted me to do anything repair wise was there was a lot of smoke and it was either coming out of of the head gasket area or the valve cover gasket area. And I also did drain the oil maybe 2 months ago or maybe it was right around the same time as when all these issues all came about you don't know that because you read what I write. In any case, I'm going out in a couple hours and see if this thing runs but the only takeaway I can give you the more I think about all this there was no carburetor issue. It was really running very well. Say a couple months ago there was nothing going on except smoking and then from there I could have potentially made the whole thing worse because I didn't exactly know how to fix the smoking issue but the carburetor was not what caused every the engine is shut down while cutting. It was instant and the carburetor was perfect. But who knows, there's not. I'm not arguing with you about this. It's just a good idea to clean it and keep it the way it was. I just want you to know it probably wasn't the event that caused everything to go wrong, maybe 6 weeks ago.

Jim

But putting aside the current current problem entirely and I'm going back to 3 or 4 years ago. When I got this machine the owner overfilled it with oil and how did that happen? And my conclusion 3 or 4 years ago was there's something wrong with a specification sheet or somehow when you drain oil out and take the oil filter off and do all that stuff. There's some residual oil and I don't know how much that quantity is but I think what he did and this is very important. Is he drain the oil out of the engine? He took off the oil filter and he said to himself there's no more oil and then he went by the spec sheet and whatever it is for sake of argument say it's 48 fluid oz. I don't know right now and I'm not going to look it up but he went by that spec sheet right from the get-go. He had way too much oil and that's where his problem began. So what I did back then was I never went by a specs sheet. I put oil in slowly like maybe every 6 oz I put in and I kept checking the dipstick and that's what I did say 6 weeks ago and I thought the oil level was correct because at times it's tough to read what's going on with the oil but that's the way I proceed it and I'm guessing I underfilled it because I was so afraid of overfilling it.

Jul 12, 2024#312

J

JimP2014

It seems as if when you place the tractor on a level surface and you drain the oil and you remove the oil filter, you assume that there's no more oil because you drained it all and I'm not sure why he ended up with maybe a quart extra that I don't know. That is something that could easily be replicated though I think. But back then I think I went from a level ground to blocking off the wheels on the opposite side of the oil filler plug. And then I still was checking what was going on. Say every 6 oz. I never mentioned any of that in any form but that's how I was able to make sure after I fixed the problem. He created that I didn't recreate the same problem and that was like 3 years ago. Whatever and I'm pretty sure 6 weeks ago or maybe slightly longer. Maybe 8 weeks ago. I was cognizant of the fact that somehow residual oil stays inside the engine someplace and don't make the same mistake he made. Which may not even be a mistake. What he did he just did what was assumed type of oil removal and then he went by a specs sheet blindly and just fill the oil back up and at that point he might have been to court too high.

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#313

J

JimP2014

This is the first attempt on July 12th around 9:30 a.m. and everything looked okay. Pre-flight except I forgot to turn on the fuel line and then I couldn't turn it off so I had to rip the fuel line out of the carburetor. I think the fuel switch works, but it would have taken too long. The operating temperature was about 250° f which I thought was great. So let me call this video one July 12th

The valve cover gasket is garbage right from the packaging so I went back to my original valve cover that had that high heat red silicone on it and I tried it again. So what happened this time? There was a lot of popping. There was fuel spraying back out of the intake and the flywheel is turning but nothing else was happening. I might be wrong but it seemed like it was encountering a lot of compression and the battery was starting to die.

So this is the second attempt below so I'm calling this video 2

It sounded like creaking. Also there was fuel and white smoke coming straight out of the intake, I'm wondering if I shared another flywheel key.

I might go back out in a little while and try again to see if it'll even start up after charging the battery for an hour or so.

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#314

J

JimP2014

The second video and I'm trying to keep track of everything that happens has never been seen before. It's all new and it's consistent with what I've been saying where whatever's going on. It changes everyday and I can't keep track of all of it. But unless it's a flywheel key that has happened before, but with the second video depicts, I don't think I've ever seen before.

Jul 12, 2024#315

J

JimP2014

Okay, before this video was made I made sure the spark plug was okay. It is. I made sure the rocker arms the pushrods that whole area is okay and it is. I unscrewed the fuel solenoid from the carburetor. Let the gas pour out. Put it back in and then spray carburetor cleaner into the carburetor. I then open up the fuel line. I set the throttle the choke turn the key and what you see above is the result. This is all different from anything I've seen before.

Jul 12, 2024#316

J

JimP2014

For the above video, at the very end there was something metal hitting something else metal inside the engine that caused a bang. It was not combustion related that's for sure.

So the first time I attempted to start the engine until July 12th in the morning I did make some mistakes with some fuel shut-off valves but other than that all the correct components. Or should I say all the components were correct so the valve clearances were good? Spark plug was good. Carburetor was good anyways. The first time it started and it seemed to run okay and then it started going to some hunting and surging near the end of its run.

Then the second time through the 5th or 6th time whatever it all became impossible to start. This is a video from about 2:15 p.m. July 12th. The reason I'm uploading this one in particular is because near the end I heard a medal on metal bang. The bang was not the result of combustion. It was something hitting something else and it seemed like it was inside the engine.

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#317

J

JimP2014

So around 6:00 p.m. July 12th today. I tried to start the engine and it didn't sound good at all. Like something seriously is broken. I took the spark plug out and this image above. I specifically lined up the ignition coil with a flywheel. I made a mark on both and that means basically top dead center. Well I found out using a screwdriver. The top dead center is actually 180° past so it's in the back near the gas tank. Does that make sense? I would think that if it was top dead center several days ago, it would still be top dead center today?

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#318

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69183
So around 6:00 p.m. July 12th today. I tried to start the engine and it didn't sound good at all. Like something seriously is broken. I took the spark plug out and this image above. I specifically lined up the ignition coil with a flywheel. I made a mark on both and that means basically top dead center. Well I found out using a screwdriver. The top dead center is actually 180° past so it's in the back near the gas tank. Does that make sense? I would think that if it was top dead center several days ago, it would still be top dead center today?

Jim

I made those two marks 3 or 4 days ago is what I'm saying and that means top dead center but somehow it's 180° reversed so that Mark when they line up is now when the Piston is all the way inside the cylinder wall

Jul 12, 2024#319

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I made those two marks 3 or 4 days ago is what I'm saying and that means top dead center but somehow it's 180° reversed so that Mark when they line up is now when the Piston is all the way inside the cylinder wall

Please ignore this because it's possible that I put that plastic piece on reversed yesterday and that explains it

Jul 12, 2024#320

J

JimP2014

I have never seen the outside of the spark plug boot with metal. I just wonder if this will screw up the timing or something similar and I should coat this somehow with rubber?

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#321

F

Forest#2

Watch this link: and when done wait for the second link. If the 2nd link does not auto play after about 20 seconds wait time just clink on the link.
Keeps a heads up as to the valves opening closing and valve overlap. Very important that the valves be adjusted when the piston is on the COMPRESSION stroke and piston is going down 1/4 inch AFTER (past) TDC. (when adjusting per the service manual. If adjusting the valves on the ex stroke it won't run correctly or at all. About your ? about the timing mark being 180 out per your marks. Turn the flywheel one more turn and your marks will align and the piston will be at or close to TDC. The flywheel magnet (and your mark) goes by the magneto 2 times but only one is of the two revolutions is when the piston is at at TDC for the compression stroke.

This link will give you a refresher for a single cylinder 4 stroke engine.
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...9A0C11A6A3A281A0B3B09A0C11A6A3A2&&FORM=VRDGAR

AND another that usually auto plays after the first one:

How does a single cylinder 4 cycle engine operate? - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Jul 12, 2024#322

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
Watch this link: and when done wait for the second link. If the 2nd link does not auto play after about 20 seconds wait time just clink on the link.
Keeps a heads up as to the valves opening closing and valve overlap. Very important that the valves be adjusted when the piston is on the COMPRESSION stroke and piston is going down 1/4 inch AFTER (past) TDC. (when adjusting per the service manual. If adjusting the valves on the ex stroke it won't run correctly or at all. About your ? about the timing mark being 180 out per your marks. Turn the flywheel one more turn and your marks will align and the piston will be at or close to TDC. The flywheel magnet (and your mark) goes by the magneto 2 times but only one is of the two revolutions is when the piston is at at TDC for the compression stroke.

This link will give you a refresher for a single cylinder 4 stroke engine.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?&q=How+does+a+single+cylinder+4+cycle+engine+operate?&&mid=81A0B3B09A0C11A6A3A281A0B3B09A0C11A6A3A2&&FORM=VRDGAR

AND another that usually auto plays after the first one:

How does a single cylinder 4 cycle engine operate? - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Forest if this is in response to what I was saying about being 180° out of sync I think it has to do with after I set up the mark mark on the plastic fins with a mark on the ignition coil. I took the plastic fins off and when I put them back they can either go one way or the other and I think I put them the other way. I think that's what happened there but I will reread this. Maybe I have a problem with the valve clearance the way I set it. But the only thing I know is the first time I started this morning it sounded okay and then it started hunting and surging and then the second time the third time the fourth time the fifth time it was pretty much a disaster. The flywheel rotated and nothing happened but the last time or one of the last times I heard metal banging inside the engine and it wasn't a combustion banging. It was metal on metal. I think I then took spark plug out and I made sure that the Piston head was traveling and it is. So I guess that's a good thing, but I don't have an experience to understand what that metal banging was. One of you folks might just say oh I know what that is. Well I can't say that.

But thanks for the reply and I'll read the relevant parts for setting valves and any other information you provided when I'm in front of a PC.

Jim

Jul 12, 2024#323

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest if this is in response to what I was saying about being 180° out of sync I think it has to do with after I set up the mark mark on the plastic fins with a mark on the ignition coil. I took the plastic fins off and when I put them back they can either go one way or the other and I think I put them the other way. I think that's what happened there but I will reread this. Maybe I have a problem with the valve clearance the way I set it. But the only thing I know is the first time I started this morning it sounded okay and then it started hunting and surging and then the second time the third time the fourth time the fifth time it was pretty much a disaster. The flywheel rotated and nothing happened but the last time or one of the last times I heard metal banging inside the engine and it wasn't a combustion banging. It was metal on metal. I think I then took spark plug out and I made sure that the Piston head was traveling and it is. So I guess that's a good thing, but I don't have an experience to understand what that metal banging was. One of you folks might just say oh I know what that is. Well I can't say that.

But thanks for the reply and I'll read the relevant parts for setting valves and any other information you provided when I'm in front of a PC.

Jim

I should say when there is banging. Probably the explosions. There were many many of them. This was one single bang and then the engine quit and I thought it was metal on metal but I'm not sure any more than that but it was just one bang as if something hit something and then stopped

Jul 13, 2024#324

StarTech

You going have to take engine to engine obedience school if you want to obey your commands. The only I got an engine to turn over was when I forgot to bolt it down.

Jul 13, 2024#325

J

JimP2014

StarTech said:
You going have to take engine to engine obedience school if you want to obey your commands. The only I got an engine to turn over was when I forgot to bolt it down.

It's signed up for the School of hard knocks.

Jul 13, 2024#326

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
It's signed up for the School of hard knocks.

A few days ago I tightened the four bolts and those things were secure, but I think you're referring to what I was trying to turn over the edge in. In other words, a flywheel rotating. It was like the whole chassis was shaking the wheels. The chassis that's what it looked like and I don't know if I captured that on video

Jul 13, 2024#327

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
Hi Davis, 2,

If you're thinking that this Governor issue was somehow internal to the short block, then I can't picture myself messing around with it if that turns out to be true.

Jim

Jim, it was an attempt at humor. I meant YOU!

Jul 13, 2024#328

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
It's signed up for the School of hard knocks.

I have a PHd...

Jul 13, 2024#329

T

Timtoo

JimP2014 said:
The flywheel key looks intact but that means nothing. I'm wondering if I should pull the head right now or assume the key works. It looks intact. It looks in the correct location but who knows, but I'm thinking of moving on to spark fuel carburetor arena.

Jim

Jim, I have been following this thread and just looked at the post attachment of the flywheel and key alignment from page 22 of the comments. It appears that the flywheel isn't sitting square on the shaft and there looks like a large amount of 'slop' between the shaft and keyway. Could it be that when the flywheel key was sheared and spinning around that the flywheel/shaft became wallowed out, if that happened, it would create room for the flywheel to get out of time.

Jul 13, 2024#330

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
I have a PHd...

The 19.5 horsepower lt2000 I think has a serious camshaft issue. Someone mentioned it before. I can't remember who but that very well could be true. I'm going with that now that I said this. It'll probably start up perfectly and cut through anything.

But I have a yard machine. 17.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton twin v that I picked up because I needed something and I just ended up pushing this back to the work area. It can't handle any stress. It wants to quit and it quit right where it needed to almost the furthest point in the yard. I wouldn't say it's hunting and surging. It's more like I'm about to quit but I'll try and come back to life. I'm about to quit and I want to come back to life and then it quit

Jul 13, 2024#331

T

Timtoo

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69167

Sorry, page 29 not 22

Jul 13, 2024#332

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
The 19.5 horsepower lt2000 I think has a serious camshaft issue. Someone mentioned it before. I can't remember who but that very well could be true. I'm going with that now that I said this. It'll probably start up perfectly and cut through anything.

But I have a yard machine. 17.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton twin v that I picked up because I needed something and I just ended up pushing this back to the work area. It can't handle any stress. It wants to quit and it quit right where it needed to almost the furthest point in the yard. I wouldn't say it's hunting and surging. It's more like I'm about to quit but I'll try and come back to life. I'm about to quit and I want to come back to life and then it quit

I'll give you credit, you don't quit easily.

Jul 13, 2024#333

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
I'll give you credit, you

davis2 said:
I'll give you credit, you don't quit easily.

I just wish there was a way to determine broken camshaft or say bad carburetor where at least one symptom does not overlap and then from there you can conclude it's one or the other. And honestly I'm not sure if I quit. I think I'm going to take a break from it and someone on this forum wants me to replace the camshaft. I've never done it. I'm really not entirely set up for it but I've been thinking about it.

So that 19.5 horsepower OHV Briggs& Stratton engine is probably the most powerful I ever owned and maybe others are just used to awesome power where you could just blow right through 4 in or 5 in of lawn. And the thing doesn't even skip a beat. Maybe that's common but this engine has been amazing. I just don't have anything to compare it to. Maybe it's run-of-the-mill.

Jim

Jul 13, 2024#334

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
I just wish there was a way to determine broken camshaft or say bad carburetor where at least one symptom does not overlap and then from there you can conclude it's one or the other. And honestly I'm not sure if I quit. I think I'm going to take a break from it and someone on this forum wants me to replace the camshaft. I've never done it. I'm really not entirely set up for it but I've been thinking about it.

So that 19.5 horsepower OHV Briggs& Stratton engine is probably the most powerful I ever owned and maybe others are just used to awesome power where you could just blow right through 4 in or 5 in of lawn. And the thing doesn't even skip a beat. Maybe that's common but this engine has been amazing. I just don't have anything to compare it to. Maybe it's run-of-the-mill.

Jim

I run a cub cadet 782 from the early 80s. It has a 17 horse Kohler. It's a beast!
Maybe you should have a shop look at the motor. Then at least you will know. No shame in that, you have put a lot of energy and effort into the engine. Actually we all want to know what happened...

Jul 13, 2024#335

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
I run a cub cadet 782 from the early 80s. It has a 17 horse Kohler. It's a beast!
Maybe you should have a shop look at the motor. Then at least you will know. No shame in that, you have put a lot of energy and effort into the engine. Actually we all want to know what happened...

I could actually do that but I have to take the engine out and bring it to the place which I could do. Otherwise around here it's like 120 bucks round trip just to bring the whole riding mower. Where I live to very reputable shops are no longer in business due to various circumstances. There are a few places around here that have tried to fill in the void but I figure since I did get this for free about 5 years ago. Whatever and even if it cost 300 bucks to fix it and other than a tire that keeps going flat. It's a really good machine. Although I did hit a tree stump and bent something, but at least I didn't destroy one of those mandrels. I think they're called, but actually that needs to be fixed too. And there is one guy I have in mind who's maybe about 60 years old and he's been in business for many years and he definitely knows what he's doing. That's his livelihood.

Jim

Jul 13, 2024#336

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I could actually do that but I have to take the engine out and bring it to the place which I could do. Otherwise around here it's like 120 bucks round trip just to bring the whole riding mower. Where I live to very reputable shops are no longer in business due to various circumstances. There are a few places around here that have tried to fill in the void but I figure since I did get this for free about 5 years ago. Whatever and even if it cost 300 bucks to fix it and other than a tire that keeps going flat. It's a really good machine. Although I did hit a tree stump and bent something, but at least I didn't destroy one of those mandrels. I think they're called, but actually that needs to be fixed too. And there is one guy I have in mind who's maybe about 60 years old and he's been in business for many years and he definitely knows what he's doing. That's his livelihood.

Jim

So maybe about 4 days ago I came up with the idea of putting a little plate on the back of the engine where you could look inside and I've since revised that it would be basically maybe an inch, maybe a half inch hole drilled into the back of the engine block and then from there you would just have something like a bolt with a hex head. Whatever. But once you take out that bolt you could put a camera and that would be incredible with like a flex hose. Kind of thing. Maybe it's Bluetooth? I don't think it would cost Briggs and Stratton much money to poke a hole in the back of the engine and put a bolt in. It does nothing except it's a placeholder for a camera in the future if need be.

Jim

Jul 13, 2024#337

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
So maybe about 4 days ago I came up with the idea of putting a little plate on the back of the engine where you could look inside and I've since revised that it would be basically maybe an inch, maybe a half inch hole drilled into the back of the engine block and then from there you would just have something like a bolt with a hex head. Whatever. But once you take out that bolt you could put a camera and that would be incredible with like a flex hose. Kind of thing. Maybe it's Bluetooth? I don't think it would cost Briggs and Stratton much money to poke a hole in the back of the engine and put a bolt in. It does nothing except it's a placeholder for a camera in the future if need be.

Jim

They are built to fail so you buy a new one... The only port they would be concerned with is the port to your wallet...

Jul 13, 2024#338

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
They are built to fail so you buy a new one... The only port they would be concerned with is the port to your wallet...

I don't know if Davis I'm looking it this way. Well actually maybe you're right because basically the fear I have not knowing what the hell's inside that black box is it's going to cost like 10,000 bucks to have it fixed. The camera would at least maybe not increase sales straight away but the dealers would get more business cuz personally I would say okay. It's a camshaft I can see it. It's broken. And then the small engine repair shop says yeah. It's a camshaft. I feel better about that. The guy I'm bringing it to is is I'm thinking about. He's definitely been in business for years, but the average consumer I think would shy away from having a small engine fixed figurine that that shop can say anything and they would never know because they didn't see inside the engine in the first place. That's my argument for doing such a thing. I mean it doesn't decrease sales in terms of service because there's no way in hell. I really want to fix that thing. I could see it. It's broken with a camera and then I take it someplace and I feel better about him telling me exactly what I saw. Maybe he might throw in another thing that I didn't see, but that's the point overall.

Jul 14, 2024#339

F

Forest#2

I would not mangle the block by cutting a hole to use a camera.
Reasons why.
Those engines part out really good. (you currently most likely have a good block.
You will not be able see and really inspect good even with a good camera.
Those engines with the oil pump are user friendly to take apart for someone like you that has patience. (patience is one of the main things when doing anything)
Do it in your spare time eventually.

Labor costs of shops for such has it's limits.

No special tools are required to take the sump off and inspect the camshaft. (or to put it back together)
Lots of you tube videos about how to remove the sump and re-install on that engine and inspect the camshaft, remove cam, re-install, etc. Do remove the carb and intake as it can be easily broken. You can leave the flywheel on the engine to remove the sump cover.

I've used the china clone gasket kits instead of the pricy Briggs real deal stuff on that model Briggs and they work good.
You might get by without pulling the head, just loosen the rocker arms.
One of the first things to check for taking apart is use a really good 5/16 6 point socket on the 3 oil pump screws and do not round off their heads. Some are really tight and have tendency to want to not come out and if the socket slips it will round off their heads and then require additional steps.

A big metal bread pan or a big plastic lid is good up on a piece of plywood on sawhorse is good for shade tree. the pan catches/captures any oil dribbing and any small piece that might try to escape.

One thing that I would do before taking it apart is run a leak down test. (or even ask a small engine shop their labor cost for doing such)
You can probably rent such from a Auto parts store
Only takes few minutes when experienced and is one of the first things a good small engine shop should do instead of just taking it apart.. You can review such on-line for a single cylinder small engine.
Also good Briggs experience if you want to become more independent of repairing your own mowers.
Also don;t be surprised if the engine mounting bolts twidt off. Sometimes on old Aluminum block Briggs engines the 9/16 head steel bolts are gall seized in the aluminum block and one or two might twist off. Best to not start the removal process with a impact wrench and use a good 6 point socket. Start manual removal with 1/2 inch drive breakover or long handle ratchet.
If the engine mounting bolts twist off or the head rounds off you are immediately SOL.

Jul 14, 2024#340

T

Timtoo

JimP2014 said:
View attachment 69167

Sorry, page 29 not 22

Jul 14, 2024#341

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
I would not mangle the block by cutting a hole to use a camera.
Reasons why.
Those engines part out really good. (you currently most likely have a good block.
You will not be able see and really inspect good even with a good camera.
Those engines with the oil pump are user friendly to take apart for someone like you that has patience. (patience is one of the main things when doing anything)
Do it in your spare time eventually.

Labor costs of shops for such has it's limits.

No special tools are required to take the sump off and inspect the camshaft. (or to put it back together)
Lots of you tube videos about how to remove the sump and re-install on that engine and inspect the camshaft, remove cam, re-install, etc. Do remove the carb and intake as it can be easily broken. You can leave the flywheel on the engine to remove the sump cover.

I've used the china clone gasket kits instead of the pricy Briggs real deal stuff on that model Briggs and they work good.
You might get by without pulling the head, just loosen the rocker arms.
One of the first things to check for taking apart is use a really good 5/16 6 point socket on the 3 oil pump screws and do not round off their heads. Some are really tight and have tendency to want to not come out and if the socket slips it will round off their heads and then require additional steps.

A big metal bread pan or a big plastic lid is good up on a piece of plywood on sawhorse is good for shade tree. the pan catches/captures any oil dribbing and any small piece that might try to escape.

One thing that I would do before taking it apart is run a leak down test. (or even ask a small engine shop their labor cost for doing such)
You can probably rent such from a Auto parts store
Only takes few minutes when experienced and is one of the first things a good small engine shop should do instead of just taking it apart.. You can review such on-line for a single cylinder small engine.
Also good Briggs experience if you want to become more independent of repairing your own mowers.
Also don;t be surprised if the engine mounting bolts twidt off. Sometimes on old Aluminum block Briggs engines the 9/16 head steel bolts are gall seized in the aluminum block and one or two might twist off. Best to not start the removal process with a impact wrench and use a good 6 point socket. Start manual removal with 1/2 inch drive breakover or long handle ratchet.
If the engine mounting bolts twist off or the head rounds off you are immediately SOL.

Forest, keep in mind I spent maybe 5 weeks trying to figure out. Is it something broken inside or is there something that's not adjusted properly? You know had I known 5 weeks ago, I want to bother messing with it on the outside and I don't have a skills to hear things that are going on inside that someone who spends a lot of time with small engines with no like right away. So I guess my idea of the hole with the bolt really stems from wanting to know right away what was going on otherwise I would have never thought of drilling a hole through the block so you could use a camera later on. Never thought of that before because never really cared. Never had wasted 5 weeks or more on a problem that there was just no solution to from replacing things on the outside of the engine block.

Jim

Jul 14, 2024#342

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest, keep in mind I spent maybe 5 weeks trying to figure out. Is it something broken inside or is there something that's not adjusted properly? You know had I known 5 weeks ago, I want to bother messing with it on the outside and I don't have a skills to hear things that are going on inside that someone who spends a lot of time with small engines with no like right away. So I guess my idea of the hole with the bolt really stems from wanting to know right away what was going on otherwise I would have never thought of drilling a hole through the block so you could use a camera later on. Never thought of that before because never really cared. Never had wasted 5 weeks or more on a problem that there was just no solution to from replacing things on the outside of the engine block.

Jim

But having said all that maybe 4 weeks ago, some folks and I can't remember who they are said it's probably the camshaft. Maybe it's spent. Maybe there's something wrong with it, so if it was them they probably would have just proceeded to take take the engine apart but I didn't know if they're right or wrong. Now I know they're right

Jim

Jul 14, 2024#343

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
But having said all that maybe 4 weeks ago, some folks and I can't remember who they are said it's probably the camshaft. Maybe it's spent. Maybe there's something wrong with it, so if it was them they probably would have just proceeded to take take the engine apart but I didn't know if they're right or wrong. Now I know they're right

Jim

Actually the more I think of it. I want to walk back this this comment and here's why it might have been like a week ago I had the engine housing off. The engine started up right away and there was no hunting and surging. Maybe only a very little bit and I thought that the solution was something to do with the carburetor so that actually happened and I may have video of it. So how does that? Assuming I can produce the video be possible if there's something wrong with a camshaft. In other words, I was not thinking about any internal damage to the engine. I thought I was maybe an adjustment here there away from a perfectly running engine. I thought it was running okay that day except it just needed a minor tweak.

Jim

Jul 14, 2024#344

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
Actually the more I think of it. I want to walk back this this comment and here's why it might have been like a week ago I had the engine housing off. The engine started up right away and there was no hunting and surging. Maybe only a very little bit and I thought that the solution was something to do with the carburetor so that actually happened and I may have video of it. So how does that? Assuming I can produce the video be possible if there's something wrong with a camshaft. In other words, I was not thinking about any internal damage to the engine. I thought I was maybe an adjustment here there away from a perfectly running engine. I thought it was running okay that day except it just needed a minor tweak.

Jim

Jim, you have done about all you can. Just allow someone to do a proper autopsy and see if CPR may help your block?

Jul 15, 2024#345

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
Jim, you have done about all you can. Just allow someone to do a proper autopsy and see if CPR may help your block?

So I don't know the significance of this but the Valve cap from the exhaust valve is missing. So I have to put another extra one on that I have and then when it doesn't start then I agree with you 100%. But I can't leave it like it is. The valve cap is looks like a little hockey puck made out of metal. It sits on top of the metal poster valve but you guys already know that I'm sure.

Jim

Jul 15, 2024#346

F

Forest#2

JimP2014 said:
So I don't know the significance of this but the Valve cap from the exhaust valve is missing. So I have to put another extra one on that I have and then when it doesn't start then I agree with you 100%. But I can't leave it like it is. The valve cap is looks like a little hockey puck made out of metal. It sits on top of the metal poster valve but you guys already know that I'm sure.

Jim

What is the chance it fell into the engine crankcase through the valve push rod galley?

Jul 15, 2024#347

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
What is the chance it fell into the engine crankcase through the valve push rod galley?

Forest it absolutely is in this little container that I saved. It has a bunch of flywheel, keys and all that other stuff. If you're betting on a fell into the engine, you're betting on the fact that I have 100% concentration and that's a bad bet so I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I discovered this morning

Jul 15, 2024#348

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest it absolutely is in this little container that I saved. It has a bunch of flywheel, keys and all that other stuff. If you're betting on a fell into the engine, you're betting on the fact that I have 100% concentration and that's a bad bet so I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I discovered this morning

What? I don't know is if you're missing one of those valve capsAnd and start the engine what will happen?

Jul 15, 2024#349

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
What? I don't know is if you're missing one of those valve capsAnd and start the engine what will happen?

And this is for the guy who thinks I'm messing with people. This is what happens. I'm not trying to do this. I want a lawn mower that works. That's all I want

Jul 15, 2024#350

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
And this is for the guy who thinks I'm messing with people. This is what happens. I'm not trying to do this. I want a lawn mower that works. That's all I want

So with both valve caps basically the engine is destroyed. So absolutely time for the shop and not mine

Jul 15, 2024#351

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So with both valve caps basically the engine is destroyed. So absolutely time for the shop and not mine

Omg I found this. I'm not saying another word

Jul 15, 2024#352

F

Forest#2

JimP2014 said:
Omg I found this. I'm not saying another wordView attachment 69202

Was that push rod in the engine?
(if so maybe it's making parts like push rods and valve caps by itself when it running and might start making bigger parts and throwing them out of the block before long) Briggs engines have been know to make their own parts sometimes.
Would also be a hint as to some of the strange noises you are hearings.
Keep a eye open you might see a check engine light come on later.

Jul 15, 2024#353

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
Was that push rod in the engine?
(if so maybe it's making parts like push rods and valve caps by itself when it running and might start making bigger parts and throwing them out of the block before long) Briggs engines have been know to make their own parts sometimes.
Would also be a hint as to some of the strange noises you are hearings.
Keep a eye open you might see a check engine light come on later.

Forest, here's where that 19.5 Briggs& Stratton OHV engine stands so I put a brand new push rod. I happen to have an aluminum one and that's exactly what I needed and it was brand new so that's in place. The valve caps are in place. The intake is at 4000. The exhaust is at 7,000 brand new spark plug. So to make a long story short, it starts up instantly which is what I was doing before. But now the new twist is after a couple seconds. It just shuts down and I don't know why. I have been using carburetor cleaner. You know I can't explain it but I'm just telling you what's going on could make a movie of it so it starts up perfectly. Whereas like a few days ago the flywheel would not even rotate.

So the question is and it's not really direct towards you but if it keeps rotating the flywheel is it going to be okay or is it going to break again that I don't know.

Jim

Jul 15, 2024#354

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Forest, here's where that 19.5 Briggs& Stratton OHV engine stands so I put a brand new push rod. I happen to have an aluminum one and that's exactly what I needed and it was brand new so that's in place. The valve caps are in place. The intake is at 4000. The exhaust is at 7,000 brand new spark plug. So to make a long story short, it starts up instantly which is what I was doing before. But now the new twist is after a couple seconds. It just shuts down and I don't know why. I have been using carburetor cleaner. You know I can't explain it but I'm just telling you what's going on could make a movie of it so it starts up perfectly. Whereas like a few days ago the flywheel would not even rotate.

So the question is and it's not really direct towards you but if it keeps rotating the flywheel is it going to be okay or is it going to break again that I don't know.

Jim

Just so there's no confusion for a very long time. It was starting up instantly and then all kinds of help broke loose when the last 4 days it struggled to start but then I found a bent push rod. Now all that's been cleaned up. So now it's starting up instantly and it's shutting down. That's a new symptom
Jim

Jul 15, 2024#355

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Just so there's no confusion for a very long time. It was starting up instantly and then all kinds of help broke loose when the last 4 days it struggled to start but then I found a bent push rod. Now all that's been cleaned up. So now it's starting up instantly and it's shutting down. That's a new symptom
Jim

Spraying carburetor cleaner is the only way to keep it running

Jul 15, 2024#356

J

JimP2014

So I got it back to hunting and surging and the throttle linkage is going back and forth wild so I had to put my finger to try and keep the same idle speed. I got to do more testing. Get out the thermal gun. See what's going on on the exhaust side for temperature

Jul 15, 2024#357

J

JimP2014

I can't say if it sounds good or bad but it runs. The problem is it runs at high speed so I have to control the RPMs with my finger. Maybe it's strictly a governor adjustment. Maybe not but it just wants to run. Maybe 4,000 RPMs whatever. I'm hoping the only thing is the governor adjustment?

Thanks,
Jim
Also, I just put a new carburetor on it.

Jul 15, 2024#358

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I can't say if it sounds good or bad but it runs. The problem is it runs at high speed so I have to control the RPMs with my finger. Maybe it's strictly a governor adjustment. Maybe not but it just wants to run. Maybe 4,000 RPMs whatever. I'm hoping the only thing is the governor adjustment?

Thanks,
Jim
Also, I just put a new carburetor on it.

I don't run it for very long and I don't plan on just leaving the engine running high RPMs just a test if it's still hunting and surging I don't think it's hunting and searching. I just think it's running full throttle and I got to get it so it's running. Say 1800 RPMs

Jul 15, 2024#359

J

JimP2014

In this video I am moving the throttle from low speed to high speed back and forth and I'm not sure if the governor lever is supposed to be moving at all. The engine's not running.

Jim

Jul 17, 2024#360

J

JimP2014

This is the latest video. It actually almost seems like it's running okay. However, the temperature on the exhaust pipe is about 830° f and I only run it for a couple minutes now. I can't imagine just because the engine housing is missing that accounts for say 300° f. I think there's still something seriously wrong but I just don't know. So it's running low to mid throttle right now and the engine seems a little smoother but I don't really know what to listen for.

Jim

Jul 18, 2024#361

J

JimP2014

This is from July 18th, 8:30 a.m. so it starts right up and it still goes into the hunting and surging. Maybe there is a vacuum leak. I've ordered two new head gaskets. The good thing is I don't see any oil around the chassis area. I was concerned about oil coming out of the engine. The hunting and searching might be reduced with a new head gasket or even sanding down the cylinder head. I've considered a shop to machine the whole cylinder head and the only part that I still am concerned with is the temperature is about 750° f. The engine is just sitting there. There is nothing going on. Matter of fact it's trying to idle but that temperature I think is pretty high for the machine. Pretty much doing nothing. I wish they could run about 400°. F but this video represents the best. It's been in maybe 7 weeks and again I am not a small engine mechanic. I'm just doing the best I can to figure out how to get it back to where it was with a lot of good information from various individuals.

Jim
Next step is to put a industrial fan blowing on the engine because I don't have the cooling installed and see how much that drops the temperature.

Jul 18, 2024#362

J

JimP2014

The good news in this video is with an additional fan. The temperature is under 400° f. That's fantastic! The other good news is the problem. It was exhibiting this morning is the same exact problem right now. It's not some random unknown problem. So that's good news but is still hunting and surging. I think tomorrow I'm going to work on the quarter inch fuel line. Disconnect it from the tank. Fit a new piece in there. Maybe 6 in and it will meet up with on off fuel valve.
Jim

Jul 19, 2024#363

J

JimP2014

I've gone down to some very basic troubleshooting. I connected a gas tank to a short hose that goes to the carburetor. I elevated the tank just to make sure about gravity. In any case, it's still hunts and surges would someone who actually works with engines sign off on this and say there's nothing wrong with the fuel going into the carburetor? Or could there be some sort of weird problem still with the tank and the flange on the tank? It just seems weird with this configuration. It's still hunting and surging when before. The configuration was a lot more complicated with a fuel filter, a shut-off valve, more hose and all that

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 19, 2024#364

F

Forest#2

Surging and hunting:

Try manually (with your hand, not the throttle control) holding the carb throttle at idle and see if the engine slow idles smooth, slight roughness, very rough, or will not idle at all on it's own?????

Report?

Jul 19, 2024#365

J

JimP2014

Forest#2 said:
Surging and hunting:

Try manually (with your hand, not the throttle control) holding the carb throttle at idle and see if the engine slow idles smooth, slight roughness, very rough, or will not idle at all on it's own?????

Report?

Okay for that test. I was able to smooth it out a bit, but I want to repeat that test several times primarily to get more gas, get a better fuel line and make sure I have the fuel filter pointing in the right direction. But like I said, it seems as if when I control the throttle linkage with my fingers I can smooth it out.

Jim

Jul 19, 2024#366

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Okay for that test. I was able to smooth it out a bit, but I want to repeat that test several times primarily to get more gas, get a better fuel line and make sure I have the fuel filter pointing in the right direction. But like I said, it seems as if when I control the throttle linkage with my fingers I can smooth it out.

Jim

So I just watched the video on the actual filter and this guy claims he spoke to numerous Briggs and Stratton engineers. He said it doesn't matter except if you've been collecting dirt on one side in the filter and you reverse it because you're doing another install. All that dirt could end up on the wrong side and go into the carburetor I never heard it explain that way and mine happens to be the clear one.

Jul 20, 2024#367

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
So I just watched the video on the actual filter and this guy claims he spoke to numerous Briggs and Stratton engineers. He said it doesn't matter except if you've been collecting dirt on one side in the filter and you reverse it because you're doing another install. All that dirt could end up on the wrong side and go into the carburetor I never heard it explain that way and mine happens to be the clear one.

You could have an air leak, or an adjustment issue. Check all the fasteners on the carb and intake.

Jul 20, 2024#368

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
You could have an air leak, or an adjustment issue. Check all the fasteners on the carb and intake.

So right now I'm able to tame the hunting and surging by doing nothing more than adjusting by holding on to the black lever on the carburetor which controls the choke. But basically when you block off air, there's no more hunting and surging pretty much.

Jul 20, 2024#369

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So right now I'm able to tame the hunting and surging by doing nothing more than adjusting by holding on to the black lever on the carburetor which controls the choke. But basically when you block off air, there's no more hunting and surging pretty much.

The only thing I will add is sometimes when I run it for a few minutes the temperature is under say 600° f and sometimes I run it and the temperature is up near 800° f and I can't figure out why that's going on? I use an external commercial fan for cooling because I have that engine housing off and with that setup sometimes the exhaust pipe does not get any hotter than 500°. F. So it's not the engine housing but it is providing cooling but not all the time

Jul 20, 2024#370

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
The only thing I will add is sometimes when I run it for a few minutes the temperature is under say 600° f and sometimes I run it and the temperature is up near 800° f and I can't figure out why that's going on? I use an external commercial fan for cooling because I have that engine housing off and with that setup sometimes the exhaust pipe does not get any hotter than 500°. F. So it's not the engine housing but it is providing cooling but not all the time

Just did another test with a commercial fan blowing air away from the cylinder head and a thermal gun registered. OH that stands for overheating of the thermal gun so the temperature was up around 900° f. I have trouble believing this is all related to a carburetor, but I'm not ruining out that possibility?

Jul 20, 2024#371

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
Just did another test with a commercial fan blowing air away from the cylinder head and a thermal gun registered. OH that stands for overheating of the thermal gun so the temperature was up around 900° f. I have trouble believing this is all related to a carburetor, but I'm not ruining out that possibility?

If your fuel/air mix isn't right, you could have problems, but the techs here could elaborate on the finer points of the combustion process and how it relates to your engine.

Jul 20, 2024#372

A

amon

Running the engine without the shroud on will cause over heating. I believe you have a blockage in the carb and not getting enough gas or you have a intake leak and its causing it to run lean which will also make the engine run hot. Both will cause surging.

Jul 20, 2024#373

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Just did another test with a commercial fan blowing air away from the cylinder head and a thermal gun registered. OH that stands for overheating of the thermal gun so the temperature was up around 900° f. I have trouble believing this is all related to a carburetor, but I'm not ruining out that possibilit

amon said:
Running the engine without the shroud on will cause over heating. I believe you have a blockage in the carb and not getting enough gas or you have a intake leak and its causing it to run lean which will also make the engine run hot. Both will cause surging.

Okay, thanks for this this explanation. I appreciate it. I did find when I put my hand over the plastic intake that's part of the carburetor. It definitely affects the hunting and surging and smooths it out. Closing the choke by hand on that butterfly has the same effect. It's just when you're not doing any of that. The hunting and surging are present . So I am getting a new carburetor tomorrow and I am going to focus on the carburetor possibly some crack where the intake meets the engine block. I also got a new cylinder head gasket just in case and bought a new air filter so hopefully this solves everything.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 20, 2024#374

A

amon

JimP2014 said:
Okay, thanks for this this explanation. I appreciate it. I did find when I put my hand over the plastic intake that's part of the carburetor. It definitely affects the hunting and surging and smooths it out. Closing the choke by hand on that butterfly has the same effect. It's just when you're not doing any of that. The hunting and surging are present . So I am getting a new carburetor tomorrow and I am going to focus on the carburetor possibly some crack where the intake meets the engine block. I also got a new cylinder head gasket just in case and bought a new air filter so hopefully this solves everything.

Thanks,

JimP2014 said:
Okay, thanks for this this explanation. I appreciate it. I did find when I put my hand over the plastic intake that's part of the carburetor. It definitely affects the hunting and surging and smooths it out. Closing the choke by hand on that butterfly has the same effect. It's just when you're not doing any of that. The hunting and surging are present . So I am getting a new carburetor tomorrow and I am going to focus on the carburetor possibly some crack where the intake meets the engine block. I also got a new cylinder head gasket just in case and bought a new air filter so hopefully this solves everything.

Thanks,
Jim

By closing off some of the air going in makes it have a richer air fuel mixture which is the same as partially closing the choke. I'm not going to keep posting replies to this so good luck

Jul 21, 2024#375

J

JimP2014

July 21st about 1:00 p.m. I made sure the governor was set correctly so throttle on high throttle turn the governor shaft to the left. Don't force it. Tighten it up. Made sure the intake manifold gasket was properly installed. That's tight. Brand new fuel line. Brand new fuel filter. Brand new on off switch for the fuel. Expecting brand new carburetor in a few hours. Hopefully that solves the hunting and surging.

Jul 21, 2024#376

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
July 21st about 1:00 p.m. I made sure the governor was set correctly so throttle on high throttle turn the governor shaft to the left. Don't force it. Tighten it up. Made sure the intake manifold gasket was properly installed. That's tight. Brand new fuel line. Brand new fuel filter. Brand new on off switch for the fuel. Expecting brand new carburetor in a few hours. Hopefully that solves the hunting and surging.

Turn the governor shaft clockwise they say

Jul 22, 2024#377

J

JimP2014

Well after many attempts right now it seems to be running okay. The temperatures are still kind of high. A brand new carburetor from Amazon out of the box needed. No adjustments. It's the other one is probably garbage and I wouldn't know it because of so many things going wrong.

But since I have a thermal gun and if I'm putting all the housing back and all the cooling stuff, air filter stuff all of that and then run it at say idle. The question is how hot should the exhaust pipe get to? How hot should the cylinder head get to? How hot should say the engine around the starter get to and assume I won't be running it anymore then 5 minutes at idle?

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 22, 2024#378

J

JimP2014

I put everything back and I was just wondering about the temperatures so I have a thermal gun and I started the mower up. It starts up pretty good. No more hunting and searching so thanks to a brand new carburetor that issue seems to be resolved, but I'm still concerned about what happened 6 weeks ago where the exhaust pipe and muffler separated and I'm familiar with that one and then maybe a minute later I heard a metal bang or something similar and then it shut off and would not restart. So just wondering what the opinions are about? The video where I took temperature is a various components.

Thanks,
Jim

Jul 22, 2024#379

J

JimP2014

Tonight was the first time I was able to drive the riding mower around the yard without any adjustment on the carburetor so I took a ride out of the box. It runs pretty good from having a tachometer on the machine, but not right now. I'm guessing it's probably running like 2800 RPMs without any blade engaged and I ran it for maybe 10 minutes and then looked underneath the hood and the temperature of the exhaust pipe I think was 688° f and the cylinder had was about 210° f which I was kind of surprised. I'm not sure about what others think about these temperatures but it seemed like everything was going okay for the 10 minutes. I ran it so I ran it in about say 4th or 5th gear and it goes up to 7th gear

Jul 24, 2024#380

Craftsman Garage

I'm just happy I don't have to deal with one of those never-ending problem engines like what you have, there's a reason that I only run v-twins or V8s.

Jul 24, 2024#381

Craftsman Garage

380 posts later and still having problems means the engine probably isn't worth your time, just my $0.50. (for those who forgot to factor in inflation, its $0.50 now, not $0.02 :l)

Jul 24, 2024#382

J

JimP2014

Craftsman Garage said:
I'm just happy I don't have to deal with one of those never-ending problem engines like what you have, there's a reason that I only run v-twins or V8s.

So while all this was going on I was looking for something that I could use and I bought a used twin v. It's a yard machine. Overall I would say it's a very heavy very well-made machine. Hydrostatic 42-in 17 and 1/2 horsepower but it is a twin v and I didn't even want to try and fix that by trying to fix my other one but there's something wrong with it where it dries for a bit and then it's not hunting and surgeon. It's more like the engine once it quit and if you stop you could save it and eventually it'll come back up to RPMs but at some point I'm probably going to deal with it so I personally would rather have a single cylinder for me not being a mechanic I only got to deal with one thing Rather than two cylinders and a carburetor I've never even seen before. But the one I've been messing around with for 6 weeks I'm sure. Maybe within a week someone who understands everything about engines could have had it going. Meaning the one that's taking me maybe 7 weeks. It's still not done yet. Got a new belt for the mower deck coming today or tomorrow. I drove it around last night again and that was for probably 10 or 15 minutes. So after I got done I took the temperature of the exhaust pipe. Those maybe around 500° and the cylinder had was probably $200. Maybe 220° f so we'll see under a load with a blade spinning. That thing will self-destruct while actually cutting grass. But I figure if I could even cut for 10 or 15 minutes and then just give it a break until I can figure out if there's something else wrong with it.

Jim

Jul 24, 2024#383

T

Timtoo

If you didn't replace the broken fan you can bet it'll self destruct. Fan and air ducts are there for a reason. Taking its temperature won't cure the illness.

Jul 24, 2024#384

J

JimP2014

Thank you very much for your Stern warning. I was just going to run it with broken partially broken fins.

I'm hoping right now since I don't even have the belt for the mower deck, but even running it for 5 or 10 minutes isn't going to do significant harm to it. I did run it maybe half hour ago and the temperature of the exhaust pipe was about 500° f The actual muffler which I believe is a Husqvarna is maybe 250° f and then the cylinder head is around 220° f and so this was after driving around the yard for maybe 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes. But I'm glad that the cylinder had temperature is so much lower than the exhaust pipe and when I say exhaust pipe it's right after it comes off the engine and goes down towards the muffler.

Jim

Jul 24, 2024#385

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
Thank you very much for your Stern warning. I was just going to run it with broken partially broken fins.

I'm hoping right now since I don't even have the belt for the mower deck, but even running it for 5 or 10 minutes isn't going to do significant harm to it. I did run it maybe half hour ago and the temperature of the exhaust pipe was about 500° f The actual muffler which I believe is a Husqvarna is maybe 250° f and then the cylinder head is around 220° f and so this was after driving around the yard for maybe 5 minutes, maybe 10 minutes. But I'm glad that the cylinder had temperature is so much lower than the exhaust pipe and when I say exhaust pipe it's right after it comes off the engine and goes down towards the muffler.

Jim

I am going to listen to what you said. There's no doubt about it so I will order that kit that comes with the plastic fins and that cup made out of metal and maybe one other thing

Jul 24, 2024#386

J

JimP2014

Don't you just love it when some people say something that makes so much sense other people jump.

Jim

Jul 24, 2024#387

S

slomo

ILENGINE said:
Any of the testers that don't jump an actual gap will give false positives.

Amen to this. You MUST LOAD all electrical circuits while testing. Meaning you need a big gap to force the coil to make all the spark it can.

A simple Christmas light tells you nothing about the strength of the spark.

Jul 24, 2024#388

J

JimP2014

One thing I can say about high temperatures at the exhaust pipe. I was looking for thermal sensors for high heat and basically end up with a bunch of grilling tools but the idea was to wrap something around the exhaust pipe so I could see exactly what was going on and have the readout on the dashboard. Hopefully to prevent something from happening again. Not sure if anyone is over. Tried that with a riding mower?

Jim

Jul 24, 2024#389

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
One thing I can say about high temperatures at the exhaust pipe. I was looking for thermal sensors for high heat and basically end up with a bunch of grilling tools but the idea was to wrap something around the exhaust pipe so I could see exactly what was going on and have the readout on the dashboard. Hopefully to prevent something from happening again. Not sure if anyone is over. Tried that with a riding mower?

Jim

If anyone has ever done something similar, that's the question?

Jul 24, 2024#390

J

JimP2014

And the only thing additional on this topic. Up until a couple months ago I had a digital tachometer mounted on the dashboard and where the blades fully engaged. This thing maintained a steady RPMs of around 3,500.

Jul 25, 2024#391

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
And the only thing additional on this topic. Up until a couple months ago I had a digital tachometer mounted on the dashboard and where the blades fully engaged. This thing maintained a steady RPMs of around 3,500.

Not seeing any issue.

Have you ever cleaned the cooling fins and block area? Pretty sure that is a must-do. Most of these engines are air cooled.

Jul 25, 2024#392

J

JimP2014

slomo said:
Not seeing any issue.

Have you ever cleaned the cooling fins and block area? Pretty sure that is a must-do. Most of these engines are air cooled.

Well right now. Hopefully there are no issues. This has been 7 weeks of constant problems. I'm sure a small engine mechanic would have that solved and maybe the first 7 hours but the cooling fan or fins. The plastic fins plus couple other parts just came. So I'm going to put those on. The only thing I'm afraid of is in order to get it off meaning the other one I have to take out the bowl for the flywheel bolt and not destroy the flywheel key and torque it down to 100 foot pounds and then start it up and hope I didn't break anything. She only drawback That's the only drawback to installing new fan.
Jim

Jul 25, 2024#393

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
Can slightly damaged flywheel fan, plastic type. Provide enough cooling to cut 800 square feet of grass. That's all I want to do?

NO. You need a new OEM fan blade or flywheel. What ever your model takes. These air cooled engines heat up in short order, as in 1-2 minutes. Summer 100 degree temps quicken this. Fix the mower right, sell it DIVULGING it has items need fixing or hire a lawn crew.

All this running without a proper fan and no engine shroud doesn't help it either.

Jul 25, 2024#394

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
Lower left corner of the valve cover has some oil dripping. The valve cover is not a perfect seal but could there be something else going on?View attachment 69097

Fix the gasket leak.

All this probably started from over heating and lack of oil.

Jul 25, 2024#395

J

JimP2014

slomo said:
NO. You need a new OEM fan blade or flywheel. What ever your model takes. These air cooled engines heat up in short order, as in 1-2 minutes. Summer 100 degree temps quicken this. Fix the mower right, sell it DIVULGING it has items need fixing or hire a lawn crew.

All this running without a proper fan and no engine shroud doesn't help it either.

I'm not sure about what you're saying but the box came today. It says Briggs& Stratton on it and it looks like it is identical. I threw the box away but it seems to me to be the same exact setup.

Jul 30, 2024#396

J

JimP2014

So today July 30th 2024 I just ran it for about 5 minutes. I was actually cutting grass it seem like the governor was kicking in more than normal. I shut it down. I took the temperature with a thermal gun. The thermal gun can't register the temperature because it's too hot and the video above to fix some fluid boiling between the valve cover gasket and the cylinder head. I'm not sure if this is new but it's still running very hot and I only cut the lawn for maybe 5 minutes figuring something was going to go wrong.

Jim

Jul 30, 2024#397

S

slomo

Are your main jets the proper size and or possibly in the right spot?

Run the engine with the choke say 50% ON. See if the extra fuel cools the hot cyls down. Enough choke to just start to stumble, for temp testing only.

For an engine that hot, the emulsion tube might be plugged up as well? You getting a full flow of fuel AT the carb inlet? Pull the hose off AT the carb inlet. Drain into a glass jar. Should be a full flow of gas. Something is leaning that engine out. Dirty carb, lines and or fuel tank.

What oil are you running? Don't tell us 5w-30 either LOL. Some Amsoil 20,000 mile wonder oil? Use straight SAE 30W oil to the FULL mark only on flat ground.

With proper oil, OEM good fan for proper cooling and the valves adjusted, shouldn't be over heating like it is.

Jul 30, 2024#398

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
There was nothing wrong with it except a lot of smoke so I replaced the head gasket and all's I could say is from there everything went downhill.

Did you lap the head and area on the block where the gaskets sits? Or just clean her up a bit a toss on a gasket? Every head I've pulled is not flat. Also do a 3 step torque on the head bolts.

Jul 30, 2024#399

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
I can only say I swapped out the original carburetor I put a brand new carburetor in which actually if you know what you're doing only takes under 5 minutes or less and it was the same problem.

Was the new carb an OEM Briggs or some fancy new Amazon Gambler Series?

Jul 30, 2024#400

S

slomo

g-man57 said:
I'm not the greatest small engine mechanic - I keep my stuff running well and that's about it. But if I understand all you posts, the motor turns (I think), you have spark (I think), and the motor pops on occasion (I think). Given those premises, did you possibly hit a rock or stump that may have broken the key that keeps the flywheel located on the crank? All of your clues would indicate a possible timing issue to me.

If he has any popping out of the muffler or carb, cam and or ignition timing and or a good vacuum leak could be going on. Seeing this is running super hot, a fat vacuum leak is suspect to me. Get something that burns. Spray around all areas looking for leaks.

Jul 30, 2024#401

J

JimP2014

slomo said:
Are your main jets the proper size and or possibly in the right spot?

Run the engine with the choke say 50% ON. See if the extra fuel cools the hot cyls down. Enough choke to just start to stumble, for temp testing only.

For an engine that hot, the emulsion tube might be plugged up as well? You getting a full flow of fuel AT the carb inlet? Pull the hose off AT the carb inlet. Drain into a glass jar. Should be a full flow of gas. Something is leaning that engine out. Dirty carb, lines and or fuel tank.

What oil are you running? Don't tell us 5w-30 either LOL. Some Amsoil 20,000 mile wonder oil? Use straight SAE 30W oil to the FULL mark only on flat ground.

With proper oil, OEM good fan for proper cooling and the valves adjusted, shouldn't be over heating like it is.

Jul 30, 2024#402

J

JimP2014

I just saw your response. Thank you. I will go check it out and report back here especially with the oil. But it's strange because I was able to cut maybe 1,200 square feet like 4 days ago. The blade wasn't really correct in various components but that took like maybe 20 minutes and everything seemed to go. Okay that's all I can say on that. And now I couldn't even run it today for maybe 5 minutes without reaching temperatures exceeding I think. 850° f.

Jul 30, 2024#403

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I just saw your response. Thank you. I will go check it out and report back here especially with the oil. But it's strange because I was able to cut maybe 1,200 square feet like 4 days ago. The blade wasn't really correct in various components but that took like maybe 20 minutes and everything seemed to go. Okay that's all I can say on that. And now I couldn't even run it today for maybe 5 minutes without reaching temperatures exceeding I think. 850° f.

Forget about my square feet measurements. Let's say 220 ft long by 100 ft wide, whatever that equals. And that was like 15 to 20 minutes worth of cutting. And as I recall the temperatures were maybe 500° maybe 600 on the exhaust pipe when I got done

Jul 30, 2024#404

S

slomo

JimP2014 said:
without reaching temperatures exceeding I think. 850° f.

WOW

Jul 30, 2024#405

J

JimP2014

slomo said:
WOW

So I just went back outside and I want to be very specific about what happened. So I started the engine up which is no problem. I then pushed the throttle lever into the choke position and it started to struggle a bit which is what you had explained. So there's a fine line between the thing running really rough and then seemingly running real high RPM, but I was able to maintain when the lever was up in the choke position. A temperature on the exhaust pipe of around 500° f to maybe 520° f and I put the lever to idle and then then at that point the temperature started to shoot up above 700° f but as far as cutting a large amount of grass in 15 minutes, I was using the thermal gun to check the exhaust pipe temperature and it was pretty close to about 500° f. That's what I'm trying to say

Jul 30, 2024#406

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I just went back outside and I want to be very specific about what happened. So I started the engine up which is no problem. I then pushed the throttle lever into the choke position and it started to struggle a bit which is what you had explained. So there's a fine line between the thing running really rough and then seemingly running real high RPM, but I was able to maintain when the lever was up in the choke position. A temperature on the exhaust pipe of around 500° f to maybe 520° f and I put the lever to idle and then then at that point the temperature started to shoot up above 700° f but as far as cutting a large amount of grass in 15 minutes, I was using the thermal gun to check the exhaust pipe temperature and it was pretty close to about 500° f. That's what I'm trying to say

So it says four-cycle SAE 30 oil. It's over where all the lawn mower stuff is at this big box store. Let's say I'm pretty sure it's the right thing

Jul 30, 2024#407

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I just went back outside and I want to be very specific about what happened. So I started the engine up which is no problem. I then pushed the throttle lever into the choke position and it started to struggle a bit which is what you had explained. So there's a fine line between the thing running really rough and then seemingly running real high RPM, but I was able to maintain when the lever was up in the choke position. A temperature on the exhaust pipe of around 500° f to maybe 520° f and I put the lever to idle and then then at that point the temperature started to shoot up above 700° f but as far as cutting a large amount of grass in 15 minutes, I was using the thermal gun to check the exhaust pipe temperature and it was pretty close to about 500° f. That's what I'm trying to say

Jul 30, 2024#408

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
So I just went back outside and I want to be very specific about what happened. So I started the engine up which is no problem. I then pushed the throttle lever into the choke position and it started to struggle a bit which is what you had explained. So there's a fine line between the thing running really rough and then seemingly running real high RPM, but I was able to maintain when the lever was up in the choke position. A temperature on the exhaust pipe of around 500° f to maybe 520° f and I put the lever to idle and then then at that point the temperature started to shoot up above 700° f but as far as cutting a large amount of grass in 15 minutes, I was using the thermal gun to check the exhaust pipe temperature and it was pretty close to about 500° f. That's what I'm trying to say

So it says four-cycle SAE 30 oil

Jul 30, 2024#409

J

JimP2014

I can't upload the photo but there's a screw apparently I see and. So it's a brand new carburetor and I see threads looking down near the choke plate area on top and there's some sort of that might go in there. A screw goes in there I think and maybe that explains the extra air coming in

Jul 30, 2024#410

J

JimP2014

JimP2014 said:
I can't upload the photo but there's a screw apparently I see and. So it's a brand new carburetor and I see threads looking down near the choke plate area on top and there's some sort of that might go in there. A screw goes in there I think and maybe that explains the extra air coming in

So I looked at a picture of the brand new carburetor and there is a hole on the carburetor with threads and there's nothing in it so maybe it came that way. Maybe nothing is missing except the choke lever no longer has any spring to it even though there's a spring

Jul 30, 2024#411

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
So I looked at a picture of the brand new carburetor and there is a hole on the carburetor with threads and there's nothing in it so maybe it came that way. Maybe nothing is missing except the choke lever no longer has any spring to it even though there's a spring

Is that for the air filter?

Jul 30, 2024#412

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
Is that for the air filter?

It might be but not for the setup I have. But if you buy it brand new it looks like that. So the choke lever and going by another carburetor is very springy and somehow all the springiness of the carburetor which is brand new is gone out of it. The other thing, I'm pretty sure I went to the parts list that I've been using right along and I got a new flywheel fan, a new grill and a new cup that holds the flywheel bolt. And so what happened was when I started it. The plastic fins started breaking off the fins. Yeah started breaking off so I turn it off. According to the diagram, I have the right part number for flywheel fan, but I ended up taking a Dremel tool and reshaping it because it seems like part of the flywheel fan was overhanging the flywheel. It's interesting that the flywheel fan comes in three versions. Maybe for the same exact machine the LT 2000 but I was reading that. Oftentimes parts will change. Midstream during a production run of something and it gets confusing. I think with my lt2000 if you have one metal rod going from the mower deck to the chassis between the two front tires then that means I believe the belt length is 101 in, but if you have two rods coming off the mower deck going to the front of the chassis you need a 96-in belt or something similar. The second time around I was able to get the 11-in belt and it seems to work pretty good. But the point is the flywheel fan kit which is a Briggs& Stratton part. It's not the right flywheel fan for the engine housing. I don't have the part number off top of my head but there's only one part number designated in the whole schematic for the flywheel fan and they basically keep repeating it in the schematic. So tomorrow I will run it where no spark plug put everything back together and see what happens when I turn the starter if anything hits. But I trimmed off enough material using that Dremel dol keeping in mind can't take a lot of plastic away. But the same time I don't want any plastic breaking off because three fins already broke off brand new flywheel band only ran it for I don't know 10 seconds.

Jim

Jul 30, 2024#413

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
It might be but not for the setup I have. But if you buy it brand new it looks like that. So the choke lever and going by another carburetor is very springy and somehow all the springiness of the carburetor which is brand new is gone out of it. The other thing, I'm pretty sure I went to the parts list that I've been using right along and I got a new flywheel fan, a new grill and a new cup that holds the flywheel bolt. And so what happened was when I started it. The plastic fins started breaking off the fins. Yeah started breaking off so I turn it off. According to the diagram, I have the right part number for flywheel fan, but I ended up taking a Dremel tool and reshaping it because it seems like part of the flywheel fan was overhanging the flywheel. It's interesting that the flywheel fan comes in three versions. Maybe for the same exact machine the LT 2000 but I was reading that. Oftentimes parts will change. Midstream during a production run of something and it gets confusing. I think with my lt2000 if you have one metal rod going from the mower deck to the chassis between the two front tires then that means I believe the belt length is 101 in, but if you have two rods coming off the mower deck going to the front of the chassis you need a 96-in belt or something similar. The second time around I was able to get the 11-in belt and it seems to work pretty good. But the point is the flywheel fan kit which is a Briggs& Stratton part. It's not the right flywheel fan for the engine housing. I don't have the part number off top of my head but there's only one part number designated in the whole schematic for the flywheel fan and they basically keep repeating it in the schematic. So tomorrow I will run it where no spark plug put everything back together and see what happens when I turn the starter if anything hits. But I trimmed off enough material using that Dremel dol keeping in mind can't take a lot of plastic away. But the same time I don't want any plastic breaking off because three fins already broke off brand new flywheel band only ran it for I don't know 10 seconds.

Jim

Just incredible... I'll give you credit for tenaciousness.

Jul 30, 2024#414

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
Is that for the air filter?

davis2 said:
Just incredible... I'll give you credit for tenaciousness.

I was just thinking how I'm doing one thing and I get bogged down in something else like grinding down plastic fins off of flywheel fan. But the whole thing was getting a reading of oh on a thermal gun which means overheat. And I actually thought I had that problem solved few days ago.

Jul 30, 2024#415

D

davis2

JimP2014 said:
It might be but not for the setup I have. But if you buy it brand new it looks like that. So the choke lever and going by another carburetor is very springy and somehow all the springiness of the carburetor which is brand new is gone out of it. The other thing, I'm pretty sure I went to the parts list that I've been using right along and I got a new flywheel fan, a new grill and a new cup that holds the flywheel bolt. And so what happened was when I started it. The plastic fins started breaking off the fins. Yeah started breaking off so I turn it off. According to the diagram, I have the right part number for flywheel fan, but I ended up taking a Dremel tool and reshaping it because it seems like part of the flywheel fan was overhanging the flywheel. It's interesting that the flywheel fan comes in three versions. Maybe for the same exact machine the LT 2000 but I was reading that. Oftentimes parts will change. Midstream during a production run of something and it gets confusing. I think with my lt2000 if you have one metal rod going from the mower deck to the chassis between the two front tires then that means I believe the belt length is 101 in, but if you have two rods coming off the mower deck going to the front of the chassis you need a 96-in belt or something similar. The second time around I was able to get the 11-in belt and it seems to work pretty good. But the point is the flywheel fan kit which is a Briggs& Stratton part. It's not the right flywheel fan for the engine housing. I don't have the part number off top of my head but there's only one part number designated in the whole schematic for the flywheel fan and they basically keep repeating it in the schematic. So tomorrow I will run it where no spark plug put everything back together and see what happens when I turn the starter if anything hits. But I trimmed off enough material using that Dremel dol keeping in mind

I was just thinking how I'm doing one thing and I get bogged down in something else like grinding down plastic fins off of flywheel fan. But the whole thing was getting a reading of oh on a thermal gun which means overheat. And I actually thought I had that problem solved few days ago.

I've been following. Listen to the guys helping you. They are on the right track

Jul 30, 2024#416

J

JimP2014

davis2 said:
I've been following. Listen to the guys helping you. They are on the right track

No doubt they have been. It's a very difficult situation. Course. You're doing the best they can. They're not here. They're not listening and seeing what I am and it's difficult but I'm pushing ahead forward with it. Fella mentioned carburetor it's interesting how that choke butterfly no longer has spring action to it. I can't figure that one out but I can say I ordered that carburetor maybe 5 days ago. I put it on as is and no more hunting and surging. It was amazing and now something happened to it and I'm wondering if right along. I've been using the right model number for the engine. I'm not going to post it right now but I have been filing one that has G2 as the suffix and it might actually be G1 because I just looked it up and there is a such a model that has G1 as the suffix. So maybe the flywheel fan is from the one that ends in G1? I bought the one meaning the flywheel fan that has the suffix of G2. But I will definitely reread the guy who mentioned all the very specific information related to the carburetor and see what I can take from that because I'm not a small engine mechanic but he didn't waste his words. Hopefully tomorrow I can go through all that as much as I can.

Jim

Jul 30, 2024#417

J

JimP2014

31P677-3373-G2 Briggs and Stratton Engine

I've been using this for many things, including the flywheel fan that doesn't fit and I'm wondering if I should be looking up something that ends in G1

Sep 7, 2024#418

F

Freddie21

Jim, I'm having problems following your posts and visualizing what the issue is. You bounce back and forth with the engine 'not turning over'. That would mean it is not rotating when the key is turned. Then you state you 'have spark' or 'does not start'. This would mean that it is turning over, but not firing or starting..

I would check for compression first. Remove the spark plug and insulate the spark plug wire. Lightly put your finger in the cylinder plug hole and crank the engine. You should feel good size puffs of air forcing your finger out. Not an accurate test, but will indicate some compression. If compression is there, you could squirt a small amount of gas, or cleaner, directly into the cylinder. Replace the plug with a new one. Crank it and see what happens. If it does try and run, squirt more gas or cleaner into the carb intake. See if it continues.

If it won't run, then I would think not enough compression or leaking out the head gasket or valves. I wouldn't think timing as you said the key was already replaced. Most of the Briggs have the kill wire on the bottom of the coil and the coils orientation is stamped on the laminated metal. Removing the kill wire will eliminate safety's from being an issue. If you do get lucky and it starts, you'll have to choke it or pull the plug wire to stop the engine. Best of hunting.

Sep 8, 2024#419

A

Auto Doc's

"an awful banging going on every time there was a rotation" Can you say connecting rod broke?

Pull the plugs an put a finger in one plug hole at a time and see which one tries to blow your finger out when cranking. Beter yet, the tip of a spark plug will likely be damaged.

Sep 8, 2024#420

O

oldntired55

remove the sump and make SURE the timing gear on crankshaft keyway is not stripped. i went thru a similar situation with a briggs pressure washer engine

Sep 8, 2024#421

O

oldntired55

Freddie21 said:
Jim, I'm having problems following your posts and visualizing what the issue is. You bounce back and forth with the engine 'not turning over'. That would mean it is not rotating when the key is turned. Then you state you 'have spark' or 'does not start'. This would mean that it is turning over, but not firing or starting..

I would check for compression first. Remove the spark plug and insulate the spark plug wire. Lightly put your finger in the cylinder plug hole and crank the engine. You should feel good size puffs of air forcing your finger out. Not an accurate test, but will indicate some compression. If compression is there, you could squirt a small amount of gas, or cleaner, directly into the cylinder. Replace the plug with a new one. Crank it and see what happens. If it does try and run, squirt more gas or cleaner into the carb intake. See if it continues.

If it won't run, then I would think not enough compression or leaking out the head gasket or valves. I wouldn't think timing as you said the key was already replaced. Most of the Briggs have the kill wire on the bottom of the coil and the coils orientation is stamped on the laminated metal. Removing the kill wire will eliminate safety's from being an issue. If you do get lucky and it starts, you'll have to choke it or pull the plug wire to stop the engine. Best of hunting.

i wish folks could all be on the same side of the fence with "non-start up " terms. not turning over, wont 'catch' etc...it either cranks and will not run, or...it will not crank with the starter... cmon folks..

Sep 8, 2024#422

R

rhkraft

JimP2014 said:
I apologize to everyone who has viewed these posts because all the information I provided kept changing from my perspective because I couldn't figure out what's going on. But here's what the whole thing comes down to and I'm pretty sure of this. I'm absolutely getting spark if the spark plug using the spark plug tester that is consistent. It is the same for the last 1 and 1/2 days. I never realized the ignition coil had an orientation but it does. But the point is when I turn the key the key does trigger the starter. As long as the riding mower is in park position, I removed the safety switch underneath the seat a couple years ago and it has been fine but I can say the problem right now is I'm definitely getting spark to the spark plug and even with carburetor cleaner sprayed into the intake, the engine refuses to even start for a split second which has never been the case. So the question is, can the electronic fuel solenoid not only defeat regular gas going into the carburetor but can it also defeat carburetor cleaner? This is really the question.

Or any other scenario where you definitely have spark but the engine refuses to turn over. Would this be some sort of safety device or is it simply take a look at what's going on in the carburetor?

Thanks to anyone who can answer this, I appreciate it very much.

Jim

Carb cleaner????? Use starting fluid. If is runs for a bit, clean the carb by taking it off and taking it apart. Clean all the jets with pressure can carb cleaner.

Sep 8, 2024#423

R

rhkraft

rhkraft said:
Carb cleaner????? Use starting fluid. If is runs for a bit, clean the carb by taking it off and taking it apart. Clean all the jets with pressure can carb cleaner.

Sep 14, 2024#424

J

JimP2014

I just wanted to follow up today regarding this lt200 0 riding mower with a 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine. Back in early June. The muffler wore the engine was smoking so I changed the valve cover gasket and the head gasket. I also changed the oil and it may not have been the correct amount of oil because the previous owner overfilled the oil. So that's one possibility it did not have enough oil. In any case, on that day I started cutting the lawn and I was in the front yard and the first thing I noticed was the muffler which is a Husqvarna separated from the exhaust pipe and fell into this cage area. I remember that from years ago so the engine was running very hot and then probably about a minute or two. Later there was this loud bang and then the engine quit. I couldn't restart it and since this is kind of long to begin with I can only say I purchased a carburetor on Amazon and my belief is for probably 6 weeks. After that I was convinced it was some sort of other problem, but it was the carburetor that I purchased on Amazon. I then purchased another carburetor roughly 6 weeks later and it ran okay. So essentially I wasted 6 weeks with a brand new carburetor that did not run. I didn't think the carburetor was a problem. I believe the loud bang was something internal that was causing the carburetor to not run correctly, but the truth is I've actually had. Good luck on Amazon with carburetors so probably in mid-august. I bought another carburetor on Amazon and it started right up. I have another riding mower that is a twin v flathead. I bought a carburetor on Amazon for that and it's running perfect prior that the Briggs of Stratton twin v would quit under load so. But the lt2 000 with the 19.5 horsepower Briggs& Stratton OHV engine is pretty much running okay, which is what this thread is about. It seems like it might not have the same power but it's very close and it cuts the lawn. Many people have helped me on this given their insight into the problem. I'm sure anyone who has extensive knowledge of engines could have recognized or did things differently when I purchased the initial carburetor on Amazon. In retrospect, I spent as much money and certainly a lot more time trying to figure out that my initial purchase of a carburetor for this engine was either defective or was the wrong one. Don't know. The only thing I can say further is if you have a perfectly good carburetor and for whatever reason you want to switch that out with an Amazon carburetor you would know right away whether this new carburetor is good. So the only thing that would make one of these carburetors Worth the hassle is to buy one in advance. Swap out the perfectly running carburetor for your engine and both carburetors are behaving exactly the same, then hold on to one of them for the future. This way you can completely eliminate the purchase of a new carburetor from the problem as a variable.
But I do appreciate the help people provide here and they certainly are at a disadvantage because if they're standing right next to the machine they would clearly know where to look for the problem. And it is up to the person who has a small engine problem to accurately convey all information and that can be a problem.

But I was able to get quite a bit of help from one individual and he is a member of this forum.

Jim

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