Home

Export thread

Armed or not

Dec 28, 2012#1

Ric

If you took your child to school and had a choice of them being in a school or in a class with an armed teacher or one that is not armed, which would you choose?

Dec 28, 2012#2

reynoldston

Ric said:
If you took your child to school and had a choice of them being in a school or in a class with an armed teacher or one that is not armed, which would you choose?

Armed teacher. It sound like a accident waiting to happen. For some reason I'm not very comfortable around someone carrying a gun and just how is this going to affect the child. I sure don't know the answer when a nut case comes into a school and wants to kill, but don't think armed teachers is it. It just isn't schools that is getting hit and you just can't arm the good people because you never know who is good or bad.
I also don't think that gun control and going to stop a person that want to kill. Maybe better gun education and keeping a better handle on a person that's a little touched in the head would help, but that isn't going to stop it 100%.

Dec 28, 2012#3

metz12

reynoldston said:
Armed teacher. It sound like a accident waiting to happen. For some reason I'm not very comfortable around someone carrying a gun and just how is this going to affect the child. I sure don't know the answer when a nut case comes into a school and wants to kill, but don't think armed teachers is it. It just isn't schools that is getting hit and you just can't arm the good people because you never know who is good or bad.
I also don't think that gun control and going to stop a person that want to kill. Maybe better gun education and keeping a better handle on a person that's a little touched in the head would help, but that isn't going to stop it 100%.

your right, and even if they did apply armed teachers, look at how many teachers are older, or may have shoulder problems where they would not be able TO fire a gun, an old teacher of mine only has one arm too!

Dec 28, 2012#4

Ric

This was one of the answers that Wayne LaPierre of the NRA talked about. The Problem with the teachers being armed would be the fact that 90% of the teachers I knew in the 24 years of working for the school system wouldn't bother with trying to get licensed to carry a weapon, say nothing about investing in the cost of purchasing a weapon. The greatest majority teachers had enough problems buying there own supplies and supplies for there kids so they could teach there classes. I personally believe if they want guns on school grounds they need to have some type of armed security.

Dec 28, 2012#5

reynoldston

they need to have some type of armed security.

This sound all well and good but this armed security had better be well trained with a lot of background checks. Personally I have mixed feeling on this. This armed person should be a person that can have very good communications with children and well liked, this is going to be the hard part because that takes a special person. Without this I don't think it will work. We sure don't need a gun hoe disliked jerk in our schools.

Dec 28, 2012#6

txzrider

I would be more in favour of armed security on site. However I believe the question of more gun control solving the issue was settled when the ex-con killed his sister, 2 firemen and wounded a policeman. It was not legal for him to have any weapons but he did. The armed policeman that chased after him, saved lives! So A. if you make guns illegal, only criminals and police will have them and B. An armed good guy can save the day against an armed bad guy! More guns is not the answer, however guns in the hands of properly trained individuals might be. While my xdm 40 might have had a chance at knocking the guy down in the theater shooting in aurora co., It is not something I would normally carry. Nor am I a good enough shot with it to be confident I could hit the guy an knock him down w/o drawing his attn to my family or the other inocent people around me. I think we all would love to be the the hero in that situation, but if you really examine it and are realistic of your skill set and the chaos of the situation... you realize just what type of men and women our soldiers and police officers are! To me the actions of the officer that chased after the ex-con were heroic and saved lives! The teachers that died to try and save the kids, were the same! Could they have used weapons, in that situation, of course! Would and armed security guard as the 1st responder been better? Absolutly!

Dec 29, 2012#7

Parkmower

My kids school campus has 5 bldgs housing pre-k thru 12grade. Our towns police dept is in an old school office bldg at the front of the campus. But that doesn't mean an officer is always on scene. They may be out on patrol or a call. The chief is alway on the road into school for arrival and dismissal. Each bldg has an unarmed security officer. I would like to see an armed peace officer in each. Even if a police officer is on campus he is prob always mins away. When seconds count who wants response mins away?

Dec 29, 2012#8

reynoldston

Now we are talking about a person with a gun, bomb or whatever that's main idea is to kill and is going kill themselves anyways. I just can't see a arm guard stopping this person. This person is just going to come out of nowhere and start blasting and killing. Just how do you stop someone like this? As I can see it happening all the time in countries all over the world, not just here or in schools. The only way to stop this person is if you can get to them with their twisted mine before it happens. The only thing the armed person may do is keep the body count down.

Dec 29, 2012#9

D

DaveTN

reynoldston said:
Now we are talking about a person with a gun, bomb or whatever that's main idea is to kill and is going kill themselves anyways. I just can't see a arm guard stopping this person. This person is just going to come out of nowhere and start blasting and killing. Just how do you stop someone like this? As I can see it happening all the time in countries all over the world, not just here or in schools. The only way to stop this person is if you can get to them with their twisted mine before it happens. The only thing the armed person may do is keep the body count down.

Armed or not, it makes no difference to a crazy person! You CAN NOT regulate CRAZINESS!! There are more nuts out walking the streets, time-bombs waiting to go off at any time any where. Many are on skid row off their meds and getting no intervention treatment. Others have more means at their disposal and are living in your subdivision, or condos just waiting for the right trigger event to set them off. Even if guns were confiscated, then as Archie Bunker replied to his daughter when she said.."Daddy...such and such a number of people were KILLED with hand guns in NYC this year!" To which he replied.. "Good Night Nurse Little Goil...would it make ya feel any better if they was shoved from windows!!?" If not guns, then clubs or knives, poison, stoning, baseball bats, machetes...you name it. Just remember you can not regulate craziness.

Dec 29, 2012#10

reynoldston

DaveTN said:
Armed or not, it makes no difference to a crazy person! You CAN NOT regulate CRAZINESS!! There are more nuts out walking the streets, time-bombs waiting to go off at any time any where. Many are on skid row off their meds and getting no intervention treatment. Others have more means at their disposal and are living in your subdivision, or condos just waiting for the right trigger event to set them off. Even if guns were confiscated, then as Archie Bunker replied to his daughter when she said.."Daddy...such and such a number of people were KILLED with hand guns in NYC this year!" To which he replied.. "Good Night Nurse Little Goil...would it make ya feel any better if they was shoved from windows!!?" If not guns, then clubs or knives, poison, stoning, baseball bats, machetes...you name it. Just remember you can not regulate craziness.

I would say this is just what I am saying. Life or death just doesn't mean anything to a person like this.

Dec 29, 2012#11

Snapperfreak

i know we can't protect our children, or ourselves from everything in this world, and i don't think every teacher needs to pack heat but if just one faculty memeber in each school, of fit mind and body and properly trained had a sidearm on them it would help. the people who don't care if they live or die are of course harder to protect against but it still would help. what's wrong with the good guy shooting back? we don't live in 1955 anymore and it seems like we should wise up a bit about this kind of thing.

Dec 30, 2012#12

Bison

Arm them,the rewards are far higher than the risks.
Better one to many than none at all.
Cops are just a cleanup crew yet are fully armed.
Nutcases ain't waiting for cops to arrive before opening fire

Kids will experience trauma in any shooting,whats better,live kids with trauma or traumatized parents with dead kids.

Dec 30, 2012#13

E

Elias40

I don't have any kids, but, would still vote no. Why? How would one possibly know if the Teacher doesn't have a chip on their shoulders as well? And, now being armed with a weapon of lethal potential, could change one's outlook, or how they would have (normally) reacted in the first place. It could apply to other devices as well. Haven't paddles been outlawed? Why?

Dec 30, 2012#14

ILENGINE

Elias40 said:
I don't have any kids, but, would still vote no. Why? How would one possibly know if the Teacher doesn't have a chip on their shoulders as well? And, now being armed with a weapon of lethal potential, could change one's outlook, or how they would have (normally) reacted in the first place. It could apply to other devices as well. Haven't paddles been outlawed? Why?

If a teacher was going to go off the deep end, they have other weapons at there disposal like scissors, could just stab students. the gun is just a inaninimate tool, nothing more. The teachers with concealed carry permits in most states would have additional training, as well as being finger printed and a better background check then the average citizen.

Gun free zones is were all of these mass shooting are taking place, why is that? Maybe because the bag guys know there will be no resistance to there actions. I don't think teachers would be anymore dangerous in the school with students then the average concealed carry permit holder out in the general population.

The thing that gets me is why doesn't the media report on the shootings that are stopped by concealed carry holders, most times without firing a shot. Most of these mass murderers kill themselves when confronted by armed resistance. I also believe that the media is perpetuating these mass murders because they glorify the shooter, causing copycat's to follow suit. I think they don't report them because it doesn't fit within their agenda, since most are anti self defense. If the media would of tried some of the stuff they are doing now back in 1776 they would have to taken to the town square, and tarred and feathered.

Even senator Feinstein( the most rabid antigun politician had a concealed carry permit. Sounds to me like what is good for me isn't good for the people that elected me. These politicians need to be knocked of there high horse. To me they all need to be tried for Treason against the U.S. and serve no less than a life sentence.

Dec 30, 2012#15

E

Elias40

ILENGINE said:
If a teacher was going to go off the deep end, they have other weapons at there disposal like scissors, could just stab students. the gun is just a inaninimate tool, nothing more. The teachers with concealed carry permits in most states would have additional training, as well as being finger printed and a better background check then the average citizen.

Gun free zones is were all of these mass shooting are taking place, why is that? Maybe because the bag guys know there will be no resistance to there actions. I don't think teachers would be anymore dangerous in the school with students then the average concealed carry permit holder out in the general population.

The thing that gets me is why doesn't the media report on the shootings that are stopped by concealed carry holders, most times without firing a shot. Most of these mass murderers kill themselves when confronted by armed resistance. I also believe that the media is perpetuating these mass murders because they glorify the shooter, causing copycat's to follow suit. I think they don't report them because it doesn't fit within their agenda, since most are anti self defense. If the media would of tried some of the stuff they are doing now back in 1776 they would have to taken to the town square, and tarred and feathered.

Even senator Feinstein( the most rabid antigun politician had a concealed carry permit. Sounds to me like what is good for me isn't good for the people that elected me. These politicians need to be knocked of there high horse. To me they all need to be tried for Treason against the U.S. and serve no less than a life sentence.

Everyone has splintered views, and, since it is like beating a dead horse, makes no sense to dwelling over it.

Dec 30, 2012#16

txzrider

So I read today where the 5.4 billion dollars that was removed from the education budget (a couple of years ago)will not be put back with this next budget, I dont see how the school systems could even afford to add armed security! I guess I am back in the concealed carry camp for the teachers! Its not perfect, but it seems like the only other solution is to stop them from getting to the school... either through more comprehensive mental health care or less guns. Or all the above. Honestly though that takes me back to if you reduce the guns for legal law abiding citizens, only the criminals will have guns.

Dec 30, 2012#17

ILENGINE

txzrider said:
So I read today where the 5.4 billion dollars that was removed from the education budget (a couple of years ago)will not be put back with this next budget, I dont see how the school systems could even afford to add armed security! I guess I am back in the concealed carry camp for the teachers! Its not perfect, but it seems like the only other solution is to stop them from getting to the school... either through more comprehensive mental health care or less guns. Or all the above. Honestly though that takes me back to if you reduce the guns for legal law abiding citizens, only the criminals will have guns.

I concur with your opinion.

Dec 30, 2012#18

L

lunytune2

We can make our schools with bullet proof glass and a system where you can press an emergency button that will close a metal security door over the classrooms that only the police and principles can open . Kind of like how the stores in the big cities close at night so they do not get broken into . It is an expense , but you do not need to worry about armed faculty or a weekly expense of an armed gaurd.

Dec 30, 2012#19

ILENGINE

What i would like to know is, why does the gun get blamed for mass shootings and not the deranged shooter that pulled the trigger. So called assault weapons get the blame even in murders that didn't envolve guns. The antis keep trying to tell us the the 2A doesn't cover modern assault weapons because they are semi automatic, but repeating weapons did exist when the constitution was ratified. If you look at the features proposed by the anti's with the proposed AWB then the muskets that were used during the revolutionary war would also qualify as assault weapons because they accepted a bayonet.

The amendments to the constitution were voted on based on common understanding of the meaning (no legal interpretation) of what it said. That should be the one and only interpretation, not some legal interpretation.

Dec 30, 2012#20

Ric

lunytune2 said:
We can make our schools with bullet proof glass and a system where you can press an emergency button that will close a metal security door over the classrooms that only the police and principles can open . Kind of like how the stores in the big cities close at night so they do not get broken into . It is an expense , but you do not need to worry about armed faculty or a weekly expense of an armed gaurd.

That's a good Idea except they won't give funding to the schools to do it is the problem. They won't even come up with the funding to hire good teachers. The thing is our government can blame and pass laws banning assault weapons and it cost them nothing. ( Even though it won't do them any good ) As they say on the news they just keep kicking the can down the road.

Dec 31, 2012#21

jmurray01

I think having armed teachers would only make things worse because what if the teacher had a breakdown and started shooting the pupils his/herself?

Dec 31, 2012#22

Bison

jmurray01 said:
I think having armed teachers would only make things worse because what if the teacher had a breakdown and started shooting the pupils his/herself?

If the sky falls,.we're all dead

Dec 31, 2012#23

lawn mower fanatic

jmurray01 said:
I think having armed teachers would only make things worse because what if the teacher had a breakdown and started shooting the pupils his/herself?

Yeah, that's a good point! :ashamed:

Dec 31, 2012#24

P

possum

Teachers are no more or less stable and law abiding as everyone else. Armed security will create problems attracting folks that have a thing for children and young women. The first one that goes beserk in the school over a love triangle will wipe out all the good that has been created by the policy.

Dec 31, 2012#25

Parkmower

I don't think arm the teachers. But there should be a fire arm in the principals or front office. Only a few allowed access with a hand scan lock. After extensive background checks and firearm training including regular trips to the range to stay fresh.

Jan 1, 2013#26

Bison

One don't need guns to mass kill kids.
A bit of fireworks will do the trick too!!

61 killed in New Year's stampede in Abidjan, Ivory Coast | CTV News.

Jan 3, 2013#27

E

Elias40

IGNORE/NO COMMENT

Jan 3, 2013#28

Ric

Well it appears that there are a good of number states that are trying to pass legislation to make it mandatory for teachers to attend and pass firearm classes to be licensed to carry weapons.

US teachers take up arms to prevent mass shootings - Yahoo!7 Sport

Buckeye Firearms Foundation provides free training to teachers - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

200 Utah teachers take free firearms training class | Fox News

Indiana law already allows teachers to carry guns | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

Texas town allows teachers to carry concealed guns - Yahoo! News

Pro-gun lawmakers in Florida, Minnesota, Oregon, South Dakota and Tennessee have also vowed to propose legislation in the coming months that would allow for armed teachers in schools.

Jan 4, 2013#29

C

Crawdad

jmurray01 said:
I think having armed teachers would only make things worse because what if the teacher had a breakdown and started shooting the pupils his/herself?

You're really reaching there. Have another drink of kool-aid.

If the teacher "had a breakdown" as you say, they could bring a gun anyhow, as it seems loonies don't care about gunfree zones...Correction...The loonies head straight for the "gunfree zones," because it's an "unarmed victim zone."

If the freekin teacher has a breakdown, he or she could be taken out by an armed non victim.

Jan 4, 2013#30

D

DaveTN

Crawdad said:
You're really reaching there. Have another drink of kool-aid.

If the teacher "had a breakdown" as you say, they could bring a gun anyhow, as it seems loonies don't care about gunfree zones...Correction...The loonies head straight for the "gunfree zones," because it's an "unarmed victim zone."

If the freekin teacher has a breakdown, he or she could be taken out by an armed non victim.

Speaking of armed teachers trying to protect students from armed looney intruders, I remember my grandfather talking about another reason some rural teachers went armed when he was a child. There were bullies and dummies who never graduated at their grade level and you'd wind up with Jethro Bodine types in the 7th grade. Often bigger, stronger and meaner than the teacher. One teacher in Union County, TN back around the early 1900's intended to keep order in class and teach. Several teachers had been beaten and driven off but this one was not. He laid his .38 revolver on the desk and said he meant to keep order in class and teach. Any student not wanting to do either could leave! I believe he was the last one they ran off.

Jan 4, 2013#31

Bison

DaveTN said:
Speaking of armed teachers trying to protect students from armed looney intruders, I remember my grandfather talking about another reason some rural teachers went armed when he was a child. There were bullies and dummies who never graduated at their grade level and you'd wind up with Jethro Bodine types in the 7th grade. Often bigger, stronger and meaner than the teacher. One teacher in Union County, TN back around the early 1900's intended to keep order in class and teach. Several teachers had been beaten and driven off but this one was not. He laid his .38 revolver on the desk and said he meant to keep order in class and teach. Any student not wanting to do either could leave! I believe he was the last one they ran off.

Well,if they ran him off too then the .38 wasn't very effective...or was it.

Jan 5, 2013#32

D

DaveTN

Bison said:
Well,if they ran him off too then the .38 wasn't very effective...or was it.

Sorry...meant to say he was the last one they tried to run off. I'm sure the pistol made them FAIL at doing it! I'd prefer something larger than a .38 wouldn't you? And in reference
to Elias' and Crawdad's response to BOZO's living by the sword, dying by the sword. Let me remind you, would you rather die without a sword to at least try and save your own life. Do you think you can NEGOTIATE with these types that can neither quote your scriptures nor read them, let alone ADHERE to them!!? Things will work out one way or the other. The question is: Will you achieve room temperature before your assailant does?

Jan 5, 2013#33

midnite rider

I am of the school that less government is better government. Since everyone is on the outlaw bandwagon lets just outlaw public schools and that will take care of a lot of the issues. Most are a waste of time and money anyway. Pay for a private education or take time out for your children with a home school education and leave it up to yourself whether to arm or disarm. Problem solved. :biggrin:

Jan 5, 2013#34

Bison

Train hits bus full of children in Egypt. 51 dead
What should be done here?
Ban all busses or ban all trains?

Bus, train crash in Egypt kills 51 -- mostly children - CNN.com

Jan 5, 2013#35

midnite rider

Bison said:
Train hits bus full of children in Egypt. 51 dead
What should be done here?
Ban all busses or ban all trains?

Bus, train crash in Egypt kills 51 -- mostly children - CNN.com

All children here in Georgia as well as adults are required by law to wear seat belts or be belted into baby seats in most all vehicles except for school buses. School buses have no seat belts even installed. Go figure.

Jan 6, 2013#36

Bison

I don't think a seatbelt is gonna be protection against a train anyway.
Yeah here in Can no seatbelts in the schoolbus either :confused2:

Jan 16, 2013#37

Ric

With all that were hearing on TV today about the new gun laws they want to enact like

requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private sales
banning "military-style" assault weapons
limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds
strengthening penalties for gun trafficking

with the above and the 23 executive orders that have been signed, I'm sorry but I don't see anything that will change or stop the mass killings that took place recently.

Jan 16, 2013#38

Bison

Ric said:
With all that were hearing on TV today about the new gun laws they want to enact like

requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private sales

banning "military-style" assault weapons

limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

strengthening penalties for gun trafficking

with the above and the 23 executive orders that have been signed, I'm sorry but I don't see anything that will change or stop the mass killings that took place recently.

That is because you are not a politician :wink:
Anytime a politician can get a law or recommendation trough( no matter how stupid or redundant it might be) he/she thinks he/she saved the world from impending disaster.

Feb 21, 2013#39

jekjr

Truth is the reason that they target schools is in all probability is that they are "gun free zones". I grew up with guns everywhere. He guns are not the danger. When I was a kid there was a loaded gun in several corners at the house and they did not have to tell you but once not to fool with it till you were old enough to know how to use it. No idiot would try to break int your house with that many loaded guns there.

Every adult should be able to carry for protection. In our part of the world when I was a teenager almost every pickup had a gun rack in it usually with a shotgun and or a rifle in it. Guns in the hands of responsible people are the best deterent to guns in the hands of irresponsible people. Anything that limits guns is only going to limit them in the hands of a law abiding citizen.

Feb 21, 2013#40

jekjr

The Second Amendment is not to guarantee us we can deer hunt by the way. It is there so we can protect ourselves. An armed society is a polite society. Regardless of what kind of nut job you are dealing with if they know that you are packing heat they are many times more likely to go find somebody else that is not than to bother you. A mass murder is not nearly as likely To go into a school where he knows that he is going to be killed as soon as he opens fire as one where he knows that there is not another gun on the premises.

Feb 21, 2013#41

Bison

Nou try to get that ^^^ trough the braindead skulls of the zombie lawmakers

Good luck.:tongue:

Feb 21, 2013#42

jekjr

One other thought. Background checks only again effect law abiding citizens. Those that are going to use the gun for crime are going to get a gun illegally anyway. Any law that hampers getting a gun is only going to effect a law abiding citizen that wants to protect himself from the criminal who is going to break the law and do him harm.

Feb 25, 2013#43

wjjones

Teachers are human to, and everyone has a bad day you have to think about the possibility of the teacher going over the edge, and using the gun on the wrong people. I know I made my teachers mad enough to shoot me when I was a kid. I think the best route is Student rescource officers in schools. We have them here they are actual sheriff deputies that work in the schools all day for the very reason of security.

Feb 28, 2013#44

wjjones

Ric said:
With all that were hearing on TV today about the new gun laws they want to enact like

requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private sales

banning "military-style" assault weapons

limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds

strengthening penalties for gun trafficking

with the above and the 23 executive orders that have been signed, I'm sorry but I don't see anything that will change or stop the mass killings that took place recently.

Yep well said..:thumbsup:

Feb 28, 2013#45

jekjr

If a teacher is responsible enough to be teaching then they are more responsible to be armed than a deranged intruder that will be. Chances of that teacher going off and doing mass murder would be very slim.

Mar 10, 2013#46

M

mowerman05

how many of you guys posting carry while doing lawn care in case something bad happens around you?

Mar 10, 2013#47

wjjones

mowerman05 said:
how many of you guys posting carry while doing lawn care in case something bad happens around you?

I dont but I have had a few times that I thought I should have.

Mar 10, 2013#48

M

mowerman05

maybe i will start this spring, just not sure yet

Mar 10, 2013#49

ILENGINE

I carry around the shop most times. Will be carrying more after Illinois get the conceal carry in order in the next 90 days, if Madigan doesn't appeal the 7th appeals court decision. She had until May 9th I think to file for cert at SCOTUS,

Home

Export thread

Armed or not

Footer Links 1

Footer Links 2