Age old question, Winter Storage?

[Rickcin]

I just love e-10 gas. It's milk shake brings the boys to my yard. ( You either get that, or you don't). LOL. Whenever I get, "I don't know, it ran fine last year, now it just won't start", the first thing I do is dump the fuel, completely, clean the plug, and try with my mix. Premium, non Ethanol, with a splash of SeaFoam. Sometimes, that's all it needed to run, and the SeaFoam in the fuel will clean out some of the junk that the E-10 fuel left in the system. By no means a perfect solution, but, if all they want is for it to run, it's a viable alternative to a tear down. You can't put $100.00 worth of labour into a $125.00 piece of equipment. Sometimes, it's time to completely disassemble the carb, run it through an ultrasonic bath, and try again. Sometimes.. it just needs a new carb.

Even with Premium non Ethanol fuel, with SeaFoam as a stabiliser, I still adhere to the 60 day rule. More than 60 days, and it gets tossed out. Necessary? Probably not, but to remove a variable in a no start scenario, it's not worth dicking around with questionable fuel on a customer service, time is money.. . 4 Ski-doos, 3 ATVs' , 2 snow-blowers .. nothing but Premium, Ethanol free.. For the extra 20 cents a litre, it's worth the peace of mind. Got a 1996 Honda Foreman 400 that starts on the first spin. Never had the carb apart, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Big difference too, between a fuel system that's vented ( Lawn mower, snow blower.. stuff with a vented cap), and non vented ( Chain saw, weed whacker, etc.). A vented fuel system "breathes", a lot more air through the system. A lot more. Phase separation occurs when the Ethanol has absorbed all the water that it's attracted, and then continues to attract more moisture. That's when the hurt begins.

I completely agree that newer stuff is built to withstand Ethanol in the fuel ( lines, gaskets, seals, etc),.. But, nothing is meant to withstand the caustic effects that occur, when the fuel has absorbed all that it can, and phase separation trashes the internals of the carb.

And it’s okay to run premium fuel through small one & two cylinder engines?

 

[Earthquake Landscaping]

And it’s okay to run premium fuel through small one & two cylinder engines?

Absolutely! Most manuals ( at least for most 2 strokes ), specify at least a mid grade gasoline. If it's a 4 stroke ( generator, lawnmower, etc.), still no worries. Some 4 stroke manuals will say that you only need regular gas, but, I really can't see a downside to using Premium..

That being said, there's the difference between Premium, and Premium Ethanol free gas. If you can't get Ethanol free, then don't worry about it.. Just be way more OCD, about not leaving fuel in the tool, running it dry, not using fuel over 60 days old, not storing it in a non sealed container, use stabiliser.

My next door neighbour kept using regular fuel, and just tossing the yellow plug over the end of the nozzle, instead of properly sealing the jerry can. Just because you see a Landscaping crew do that, doesn't mean that you should! I explained to him that that might be fine for a crew, using up a few cans a day, but that for him, using a 20 liter ( 5 US gallons ) a month, he was just rapidly turning his fuel into crap. Every time the temperature changed, the tank was breathing in the moisture from the outside air, the aromatics (SP?) that made the gas go "bang" were escaping, etc. It'd also get into phase separation, that then corrupts the carb's internals. When he'd want to borrow something from me, I made a point that I gave him a Jerry can of MY fuel, and told him not to use his can. His riding lawn mower was running like a bag of hammers... It started O.K., but surged like crazy. Without his knowledge, ( random act of kindness), I tossed in some Premium Ethanol free Premium, with a half a can of SeaFoam.. By the time he was done cutting his grass the next time, no more surging, no more rough running. I never told him that I did that.

 

[sparg45]

Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

I've done the same for 50

Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

Haven't used anything but 87 grade for 50 yrs in Pa, always kept fuel in tank with Stabil or Seafoam in all equip. and remove my battery from tractor. Never had a problem starting the next year.

 

[Joed756]

Sta-bil has a limited shelf life.. I think 2 years & it then begins to get sticky in gas tanks etc.. I don't use it.

But agree better to have gas in & the lines hold up better.. I only use 100% non- ethanol gas.. Almost 10 years on my edger & blower on the OE lines.

Sta-bil claims that a bottle kept beyond it's shelf life will not hurt anything, it will just be less effective. Also, it should be noted that a full system won condense and an empty system won't condense, you don't want to store equipment between those extremes without using a fuel stabilizer.

 

[Joed756]

I was told by many small engine people there is no issue with ethanol fuels other than if you have old (15+ years old or older) equipment, there is no issue other than long term storage. Older seals/gaskets were suseptible to ethanol deterioration and a lot of people think that is still this case....not true if the carbs/fuel lines are designed to tolerate ethanol fuel. As with many things, the no ethanol 'rule' has become another not needed restriction based on old impacts that mostly do not exist now. There is a long term storage issue that likely is irrelevant for off season storage of equipment, as long as the seals etc will tolerate ethanol. There is nothing wrong with using ethanol free fuel but you got to decide if its worth the effort to find, purchase and store it. In a way its kind of like the no lead fuel issues that got confounded when lead was taken out of gasoline. For the most part, unless you put on a lot of miles and drove your car hard, especially like for lightly driven collector cars the no lead was not really a significant issue. And the not too difficult fix for that was installation of hardened valve seats. Not trivial but not impossible.

I was going to make a similar post, thanks for saving me 45 minutes or so.

 

[Joed756]

Most fuel tanks are Vented.

All fuel tanks are vented, otherwise the fuel wouldn't flow from the tank.

 

[Rickcin]

Absolutely! Most manuals ( at least for most 2 strokes ), specify at least a mid grade gasoline. If it's a 4 stroke ( generator, lawnmower, etc.), still no worries. Some 4 stroke manuals will say that you only need regular gas, but, I really can't see a downside to using Premium..

That being said, there's the difference between Premium, and Premium Ethanol free gas. If you can't get Ethanol free, then don't worry about it.. Just be way more OCD, about not leaving fuel in the tool, running it dry, not using fuel over 60 days old, not storing it in a non sealed container, use stabiliser.

My next door neighbour kept using regular fuel, and just tossing the yellow plug over the end of the nozzle, instead of properly sealing the jerry can. Just because you see a Landscaping crew do that, doesn't mean that you should! I explained to him that that might be fine for a crew, using up a few cans a day, but that for him, using a 20 liter ( 5 US gallons ) a month, he was just rapidly turning his fuel into crap. Every time the temperature changed, the tank was breathing in the moisture from the outside air, the aromatics (SP?) that made the gas go "bang" were escaping, etc. It'd also get into phase separation, that then corrupts the carb's internals. When he'd want to borrow something from me, I made a point that I gave him a Jerry can of MY fuel, and told him not to use his can. His riding lawn mower was running like a bag of hammers... It started O.K., but surged like crazy. Without his knowledge, ( random act of kindness), I tossed in some Premium Ethanol free Premium, with a half a can of SeaFoam.. By the time he was done cutting his grass the next time, no more surging, no more rough running. I never told him that I did that.

I do have a good metal 5 gallon gas can with the spring loaded lid and always fill it with non ethanol gas and do add sta-bil to all my stored gas for the mowers & generator.

I’m guessing that should be good for about 6 months? Beyond that, I dump it into one of our cars.

 

[Majestor]

When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

Actually ethanol gas is a problem if your power lawn equipment or automobiles have steel fuel lines or gas tanks if you own older equipment. Modern equipment and automobiles have plastic gas tanks and stainless steel tubing or rubber fuel lines to almost nullify the affects alcohol in ethanol of the fuel system creating rust which will cause havoc in carburetors. Let’s say that if you own a 1975 vehicle and you use ethanol fuel you will eventually have rust in the fuel system because of the steel gas tank and fuel lines. I only use ethanol free fuel in my lawn equipment and add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to each of my 2.5 gallon fuel container all year. Before filling the fuel containers, I flush at least five gallons of the fuel feed nozzle of possible ethanol in the pickup line into my truck fuel tank, just to make sure that I will be getting ethanol free gas. Modern gas stations that sell ethanol free gas use station pumps that dispense both ethanol and ethanol free gas, thus the flushing of the fuel nozzle of all ethanol into my truck fuel tank.
On a side note MarineBob, we’re you an F-4 pilot or EWO/Bombadier?

 

[Ohioguy]

If I had one mower I would top off tank and add Stabil and run dry. I have 4 garden tractors and two diesel compacts and three motorcycles. I always top of motorcycles because of the metal tank and I always Stabil everything. I spent a lot of money on multiple Battery Tender brand units because a Harbor Freight trickle charger melted!

 

[Zue]

Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I have been repairing lawn equipment for 10 years. Each rear my advice for storing and general use of OPE has changed little by little. I don’t advise using sta-bil. As it does work if used as directed, many people overdose their fuel and the the sta-bil begins to clog carburetor. I recommend using a product called ethanol shield. You cannot add too much so mixture rate is less of a problem. Draining fuel or running it empty is typically a waste of time as we have seen the residue of fuel left behind still causes issues. Always use ethanol free fuel in your OPE equipment. This is your best defense when storing your equipment. There is a smart phone app called “Pure Gas” that will help you locate places that sell Ethanol Free fuel at the pump.