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Age old question, Winter Storage?

Nov 4, 2023#1

R

Rickcin

Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

Nov 4, 2023#2

B

bullet bob

I'm sure that when you say a "battery tender" that you mean a battery "maintainer". Big difference. Also, I just put some https://www.walmart.com/ip/STA-BIL-...uc1dXg9zKMvhvZ-nip7BYKO6JgJQTC5hoCwSwQAvD_BwE in my 5 gallon gas can and run that through the mower. Never have had any problems. And I live in the same area.

Nov 4, 2023#3

J

jdwalsh

Battery Tender is a brand of battery maintainer (smart charger). I too run my equipment dry of gas (which I will dose with Sta-Bil to keep diaphragms from sticking/hardening. Although I have bought fogging oil, I have only used it in chainsaws that wouldn't be used for years.

Nov 9, 2023#4

R

Rickcin

jdwalsh said:
Battery Tender is a brand of battery maintainer (smart charger). I too run my equipment dry of gas (which I will dose with Sta-Bil to keep diaphragms from sticking/hardening. Although I have bought fogging oil, I have only used it in chainsaws that wouldn't be used for years.

Not sure what the proper name is, however it works as a trickle charger, maintains the current in the battery while it is not in use.

Nov 9, 2023#5

F

fj5gtx

Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

Nov 9, 2023#6

R

Rickcin

fj5gtx said:
Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

I only use ethanol free gasoline and I always add stabilizer. Last year I left the lawn tractor with an almost full fuel tank and it started right up in the spring but not sure if that’s the best thing to do?

Nov 9, 2023#7

F

fj5gtx

I wouldn't intentionally store it full, but with stabilizer it shouldn't really matter. The fuel can go a little stale and still be viable for use when its in the tank. You want to protect agaisnt corrosion or fuel gelling in the carb, that is what ruins your spring start. That is why I said cut the fuel flow; you can add a fuel shut off valve for a couple bucks if yours doesn't have one.

Nov 9, 2023#8

R

Rickcin

fj5gtx said:
I wouldn't intentionally store it full, but with stabilizer it shouldn't really matter. The fuel can go a little stale and still be viable for use when its in the tank. You want to protect agaisnt corrosion or fuel gelling in the carb, that is what ruins your spring start. That is why I said cut the fuel flow; you can add a fuel shut off valve for a couple bucks if yours doesn't have one.

So just closing the valve and running it dry is best?
I wanted a fuel valve but not confident to cut one in, concerned with having a leak!

Nov 9, 2023#9

F

fj5gtx

Getting the carb dry is good for even long term storage. I'd still not put ethanol fuel in it at the end of season, but admittedly I've gotten away with it w/o issue. Go grab a valve from the hardware store and cut the rubber line in a good spot for the valve. Get a couple 1/4" hose clamps (the spring type ones) and install it. It won't leak !

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Nov 9, 2023#10

S

slomo

Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

Nov 9, 2023#11

7394

Sta-bil has a limited shelf life.. I think 2 years & it then begins to get sticky in gas tanks etc.. I don't use it.

But agree better to have gas in & the lines hold up better.. I only use 100% non- ethanol gas.. Almost 10 years on my edger & blower on the OE lines.

Nov 9, 2023#12

R

Rickcin

7394 said:
Sta-bil has a limited shelf life.. I think 2 years & it then begins to get sticky in gas tanks etc.. I don't use it.

But agree better to have gas in & the lines hold up better.. I only use 100% non- ethanol gas.. Almost 10 years on my edger & blower on the OE lines.

So the consensus is to use fresh non ethanol fuel with stabilized and the engine should be fine sitting for 4 months?

Nov 9, 2023#13

7394

Rickcin said:
So the consensus is to use fresh non ethanol fuel with stabilized and the engine should be fine sitting for 4 months?

I don't know about the consensus, but this works for my stuff.. And I use Seafoam, if I use anything. It doesn't go bad.

Stabil does. IIRC it has expiration date on it as well.

Nov 9, 2023#14

R

Rickcin

7394 said:
I don't know about the consensus, but this works for my stuff.. And I use Seafoam, if I use anything. It doesn't go bad.

Stabil does. IIRC it has expiration date on it as well.

So Seafoam is a stabilizer or essentially does the same thing as Stabil?

Nov 9, 2023#15

7394

Rickcin said:
So Seafoam is a stabilizer or essentially does the same thing as Stabil?

Yes it is & much more, been around since 1942. IMO better than stabil, cause it doesn't go bad.

Nov 11, 2023#16

F

Firespooks

Rickcin said:
So just closing the valve and running it dry is best?
I wanted a fuel valve but not confident to cut one in, concerned with having a leak!

I installed my own fuel valve. very easy. I from Chicago, so I completely fill my fuel tank along with stabilizer. Then I shut off the fuel valve. Start the tractor until it dies out and remember to shut the key off. I’ve been a mechanic for over 40 years .

Nov 11, 2023#17

MarineBob

Full disclosure. I have no concerns about rebuilding, cleaning carbs etc so.............. I got some years behind me here in New England, Cold winters, no heated garage. My mowers, snow blower, lawn tractor, never did much of anything to winterize. I will admit, a few years ago I did start to dump a shot or two of StaBil stuff into the gas but for decades I never did that. I have never had an issue with any of my 'toys.' My logic is no equipment really sits for all that long......mower, Oct to March or April.... Snow blower, March to ...... November? December? I suppose if you are not going to run something for a year or two the fuel will become an issue but for a few months I have never had a problem. I know a lot of people who have shops come and pick up their stuff to do 'maintenance.' With pick up and delivery, hundreds of dollars. For what? Likely unneeded plug change? ($5), oil change? ($5-10) Blade sharpened? ( 15 minutes of work?) I understand you got to pay for time, but geesh.... ask someone, buy a wrench, learn how to do basic maintenance yourself. I suppose I am off on a tangent but it seems very few people can do anything for themselves which is way more than a financial issue. And people are crazy about ethanol gas. I agree I'd rather not have it , it caused the cost of a good steak to go up (no corn to feed the cattle) but life goes on

Nov 11, 2023#18

I

iaff801

I no longer run ethanol pump gas in any of my machines. Although I can't purchase ethanol free in CT, I only have to drive 40 minutes to buy it at a pump in upper New York. I bought a 14 gallon tote with a pump handle on Amazon. I go there twice a year. That's all I run, no Sta-bil. Never have a problem. I find that gas with Sta-bil still breaks down, just after a longer period of time.

Nov 11, 2023#19

G

Gebo

I’ve had my Honda Rider since 1998. I’ve always used non ethanol 92+ octane with Amsoil stabilizer year round. I’ve never run it dry or turned off the fuel since 1998. I have never had any problem with carb, fuel lines, gumming up , etc It is stored in a basement garage. I’ve never used a battery tender and my batteries last about 7 years. I guess I’m just lucky???

Nov 11, 2023#20

X

X580

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Although STA-BIL is probably the most recognized name in fuel storage, it tied for fourth place in this comparison with Yamalube Fuel Additive.

(NOTE: if you read both articles one learns alls StaBil does is create a “film” across the top of the fuel in whatever container or tank it’s in. StaBil does NOT / physically can NOT actually MIX with the fuel. As soon as the container or tank is jostled, the film is broken and any effect is lost. PRI-G (actually a REFINERY industry FUEL REFRESHER!!!!!!!) and SeaFoam chemically MIX WITH FUELS!)

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Another worthy mention article (in our six-figure‘s worth of boats and jet skis - and the wife’s all original ‘66 GTO - we use BOTH PRI-G AND Sea Foam!)

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Nov 11, 2023#21

R

Rickcin

My neighbor, who does small engine repairs on the side, put fresh fuel (always ethanol free ) with Stabil in his lawn tractor before winter storage and runs the tractor around his yard to distribute the fuel and that’s it, he has never had a problem with start up in the spring.
That seems like the simplest method along with a trickle charger for the battery!

That said, I’m sure others have different methods as I’ve also called the shop where I purchased the mower and there recommendation was to either run it dry or add fresh stabilized fuel to the tank so obviously there’s more than one correct answer?

Nov 11, 2023#22

T

Timbuktu

I was once told that ethanol was a no no in small engines. Don't know if that's true or not.

Nov 11, 2023#23

R

Rickcin

Timbuktu said:
I was once told that ethanol was a no no in small engines. Don't know if that's true or not.

Yes and I always use ethanol free fuel only!

Nov 11, 2023#24

MarineBob

I was told by many small engine people there is no issue with ethanol fuels other than if you have old (15+ years old or older) equipment, there is no issue other than long term storage. Older seals/gaskets were suseptible to ethanol deterioration and a lot of people think that is still this case....not true if the carbs/fuel lines are designed to tolerate ethanol fuel. As with many things, the no ethanol 'rule' has become another not needed restriction based on old impacts that mostly do not exist now. There is a long term storage issue that likely is irrelevant for off season storage of equipment, as long as the seals etc will tolerate ethanol. There is nothing wrong with using ethanol free fuel but you got to decide if its worth the effort to find, purchase and store it. In a way its kind of like the no lead fuel issues that got confounded when lead was taken out of gasoline. For the most part, unless you put on a lot of miles and drove your car hard, especially like for lightly driven collector cars the no lead was not really a significant issue. And the not too difficult fix for that was installation of hardened valve seats. Not trivial but not impossible.

Nov 11, 2023#25

G

Gord Baker

Rickcin said:
I only use ethanol free gasoline and I always add stabilizer. Last year I left the lawn tractor with an almost full fuel tank and it started right up in the spring but not sure if that’s the best thing to do?

With an almost full tank there is minimal air which contains moisture. Turn off or block Fuel line and run it til it stalls. You did good. The Lieberals have banned Ethanol Free fuel in all of Canada. Idiots.

Nov 11, 2023#26

G

Gord Baker

MarineBob said:
I was told by many small engine people there is no issue with ethanol fuels other than if you have old (15+ years old or older) equipment, there is no issue other than long term storage. Older seals/gaskets were suseptible to ethanol deterioration and a lot of people think that is still this case....not true if the carbs/fuel lines are designed to tolerate ethanol fuel. As with many things, the no ethanol 'rule' has become another not needed restriction based on old impacts that mostly do not exist now. There is a long term storage issue that likely is irrelevant for off season storage of equipment, as long as the seals etc will tolerate ethanol. There is nothing wrong with using ethanol free fuel but you got to decide if its worth the effort to find, purchase and store it.

You really don't understand the effects of Ethanol in fuel that is not used within 30 days. Your small engine people are after your money!

Nov 11, 2023#27

C

Cajun power

A few suggestions and a caution:

Smoking cylinders with standard engine oil and then hand spinning is a tried and true way to pickle an engine for storage.

Batteries will prematurely fail in cold temps. Remove battery and put inside out if cold ( in a plastic tray). Once a month put it on a battery maintainer.

Fuel in a carb is asking for trouble..regardless if you use stabilizers. Same thing with leaving in tank. Empty tank and use that fuel. Car? Something else.

Closing a fuel line shutoff valve to lar engine starve sounds like a good idea but there are some issues doing that.

A. You take the risk of having the vacuum collapse the fuel line.
B. Not all fuel is actually removed. Some will still be in carb and fuel line.

The better way to accomplish this?

Pinch off fuel line at fuel tank. Remove fuel line from fuel tank tank. (This assumes you removed fuel from tank as suggested above... otherwise do that first).

Zip tie fuel line up higher than carb

Open fuel shutoff valve.

Start engine and allow it to die from fuel starvation.

After engine dies, put fuel line back into empty and dry fuel tank.

Open carb fuel bowl, blast the anti back fire solenoid pin with compressed air then spray some wd40 directly into the anti back fire solenoid pin. Exercise the pin down and release 10 times with finger tip. Reassemble carb fuel bowl

Remove spark plug(s). Smoke a little engine oil (a cap amount(, then rotate engine by hand a few times. Replace spark plug.

Can be done in less than 1 hour. Will save many hours of frustration time and money in the next season and extend life of machine

God bless America

Nov 11, 2023#28

G

Gord Baker

Cajun power said:
A few suggestions and a caution:

Smoking cylinders with standard engine oil and then hand spinning is a tried and true way to pickle an engine for storage.

Batteries will prematurely fail in cold temps. Remove battery and put inside out if cold ( in a plastic tray). Once a month put it on a battery maintainer.

Fuel in a carb is asking for trouble..regardless if you use stabilizers. Same thing with leaving in tank. Empty tank and use that fuel. Car? Something else.

Closing a fuel line shutoff valve to lar engine starve sounds like a good idea but there are some issues doing that.

A. You take the risk of having the vacuum collapse the fuel line.
B. Not all fuel is actually removed. Some will still be in carb and fuel line.

The better way to accomplish this?

Pinch off fuel line at fuel tank. Remove fuel line from fuel tank tank. (This assumes you removed fuel from tank as suggested above... otherwise do that first).

Zip tie fuel line up higher than carb

Open fuel shutoff valve.

Start engine and allow it to die from fuel starvation.

After engine dies, put fuel line back into empty and dry fuel tank.

Open carb fuel bowl, blast the anti back fire solenoid pin with compressed air then spray some wd40 directly into the anti back fire solenoid pin. Exercise the pin down and release 10 times with finger tip. Reassemble carb fuel bowl

Remove spark plug(s). Smoke a little engine oil (a cap amount(, then rotate engine by hand a few times. Replace spark plug.

Can be done in less than 1 hour. Will save many hours of frustration time and money in the next season and extend life of machine

God bless America

Most fuel tanks are Vented.

Nov 11, 2023#29

MarineBob

Gord Baker said:
You really don't understand the effects of Ethanol in fuel that is not used within 30 days. Your small engine people are after your money!

I can only express my experience.......how long has there been ethanol gas? 15-20 years? Never, ever, have had any issue with mowers, lawn tractors, snow blowers, chain saws, weed whackers........ I only started using some
Stabil a couple years ago because a neighbor was moving and gave me a couple of bottles. So I suppose others have had different experiences, but me? None, at all. Couple pulls next season and never an issue. Maybe I am just luckly. So, no one has gotten any of my money, and the last time I had repairs done by a shop? Let's see? That would be never. I recognize that if someone does not want to risk having to pay for repairs that are potentially caused by ethanol fuel, their lowest overall cost is paying for presumably preventive measures. i understand that, but my experience and common sense observations do not indicate ethanol fuels are all that bad if you use the fuel before it sits for long periods of time. 30 days seems trival as an issue in my experience. I have had gallon jugs sit over the winter in the garage when it didnt snow much and when put into the spring time ready to go lawn mower with its last fall gas, couple pulls and off and running. I guess everyone's experience is different. I have never heard a good explanation of why ethanol gas can't sit for a short while or why its bad in its fresh condition for any engine. The only explanations I have gotten is......I was told its bad......

Nov 11, 2023#30

Law57

I live in N MN. Extremely cold Jan - Mar. I just run my mowers empty. I do use premium non-oxygenated fuel. Never an issue.

Nov 11, 2023#31

MyGrassHasCrabs

Run until engine starves no with no fuel.

Nov 11, 2023#32

parabians

I produced hay on 40 acres for over 30 years in North Texas. I used ethanol fuel that was available locally. Non-ethanol isn't easily found in rural towns with 450 people with 40 miles between identical small towns. My ag motors, along with my lawn equipment, were Sea Foam treated. This stuff works. Every tankfull. I rarely drain the gas. In spring, after a 5 month winter downtime, all started with little to no problem. I retired to the mountains of Oregon, downsized to 15 acres of hay, and I continue to use Sea Form. Bigger ag equipment like my JD 5210 utility tractor and diesels, I run that equipment weekly during winter for potential cold-weather and snow related work.

Nov 11, 2023#33

P

peejo50

I live in northeast Ohio and have 11 pieces of gas- and diesel-powered equipment, plus several chainsaws. I maintain my batteries but do nothing for the fuel systems. The only problem I have ever encountered was a rodent, (chipmunk or squirrel), chewing through a gas line and emptying a tank of gas.
Do what works for you and makes you feel comfortable with your equipment.

Nov 11, 2023#34

rhiebert

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

Concur with replies about ethanol and stabilizers but I would also add the suggestion of using quality synthetic engine oil that has and is the S.A.E. viscosity the owner's manual shows.

Nov 11, 2023#35

G

Gord Baker

MarineBob said:
I can only express my experience.......how long has there been ethanol gas? 15-20 years? Never, ever, have had any issue with mowers, lawn tractors, snow blowers, chain saws, weed whackers........ I only started using some
Stabil a couple years ago because a neighbor was moving and gave me a couple of bottles. So I suppose others have had different experiences, but me? None, at all. Couple pulls next season and never an issue. Maybe I am just luckly. So, no one has gotten any of my money, and the last time I had repairs done by a shop? Let's see? That would be never. I recognize that if someone does not want to risk having to pay for repairs that are potentially caused by ethanol fuel, their lowest overall cost is paying for presumably preventive measures. i understand that, but my experience and common sense observations do not indicate ethanol fuels are all that bad if you use the fuel before it sits for long periods of time. 30 days seems trival as an issue in my experience. I have had gallon jugs sit over the winter in the garage when it didnt snow much and when put into the spring time ready to go lawn mower with its last fall gas, couple pulls and off and running. I guess everyone's experience is different. I have never heard a good explanation of why ethanol gas can't sit for a short while or why its bad in its fresh condition for any engine. The only explanations I have gotten is......I was told its bad......

Bob:
If you watch the many Utube small engine Repair guys like tarryl and Dony boy and B. Pender you will see the gel like substance that forms in the float bowl, emulsion tube etc. Glad you have not had a problem. I don't risk it in Southern Ontario. Perhaps you live in a less humid area. A tightly sealed Full Container is best for storage.

Nov 11, 2023#36

H

hotajax

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

Drain the E10 from the tanks of the Cub and the Honda. Refill with Ethanol free gas. Run it for a while to get the efree gas through the fuel pump and carb. You're done. Just start the tractor every three weeks or so over the winter to keep seals moist. You're done and will have a simple start up come spring. Go have a beer.

Nov 11, 2023#37

P

PGB1

I'm no mechanic, but I use fuel stabilizer always. When the fuel is 4 months old, I dump it in a vehicle to dilute it with the gas in that vehicle's larger tank.
If the oil will be due for changing before next use or is close to due now, I'll change it before storing (& after storage).

Storage- What I've done for decades to all of my small engine equipment that won't be used again soon:
Remove as much fuel as possible from the tank.
Run until stall from lack of fuel. Switch ignition to "Off".
If it has a float bowl type carburetor, drain it manually.
Remove spark plug(s) and put a drop or two of engine oil in the cylinder(s)
Make the pistons go through some cycles by cranking or pulling the starter rope. This spreads the oil.

If rope start- Pull until firm resistance is felt. This is the compression stroke & the valves are all closed (Keeps moisture out)
If electrical start, there may be a place on your machine to manually turn the crank with a bar or wrench.

Remove the vented cap from the gasoline tank and lay a piece of a nitrile glove across the opening. Screw the cap back on, squishing the glove into the threads. This keeps moisture and tiny insects from using the vent openings as an entrance. (Plastic food wrap melts from residual fumes. Plastic grocery bags dry & crack into pieces.)

This might sound tedious, but repairs are tedious, too. My stuff always starts right up after storage and some equipment is over 40 years old with nothing but preventative maintenance done.
Paul

Nov 11, 2023#38

MarineBob

Gord Baker said:
Bob:
If you watch the many Utube small engine Repair guys like tarryl and Dony boy and B. Pender you will see the gel like substance that forms in the float bowl, emulsion tube etc. Glad you have not had a problem. I don't risk it in Southern Ontario. Perhaps you live in a less humid area. A tightly sealed Full Container is best for storage.

If its on YouTube, it must be accurate......

Nov 11, 2023#39

R

Rickcin

Gord Baker said:
With an almost full tank there is minimal air which contains moisture. Turn off or block Fuel line and run it til it stalls. You did good. The Lieberals have banned Ethanol Free fuel in all of Canada. Idiots.

The craziness to ban ethanol fuels are those who have no ability to read and learn, however that and those people are why this country has been heading downhill at an ever increasing rate!

Nov 11, 2023#40

R

Rickcin

MarineBob said:
I can only express my experience.......how long has there been ethanol gas? 15-20 years? Never, ever, have had any issue with mowers, lawn tractors, snow blowers, chain saws, weed whackers........ I only started using some
Stabil a couple years ago because a neighbor was moving and gave me a couple of bottles. So I suppose others have had different experiences, but me? None, at all. Couple pulls next season and never an issue. Maybe I am just luckly. So, no one has gotten any of my money, and the last time I had repairs done by a shop? Let's see? That would be never. I recognize that if someone does not want to risk having to pay for repairs that are potentially caused by ethanol fuel, their lowest overall cost is paying for presumably preventive measures. i understand that, but my experience and common sense observations do not indicate ethanol fuels are all that bad if you use the fuel before it sits for long periods of time. 30 days seems trival as an issue in my experience. I have had gallon jugs sit over the winter in the garage when it didnt snow much and when put into the spring time ready to go lawn mower with its last fall gas, couple pulls and off and running. I guess everyone's experience is different. I have never heard a good explanation of why ethanol gas can't sit for a short while or why its bad in its fresh condition for any engine. The only explanations I have gotten is......I was told its bad......

Agreed, however fuel without ethanol (corn) is more efficient and produces better results than what the government has mandated and as long as I can easily obtain it, it’s my preferred fuel.

Nov 11, 2023#41

MarineBob

Rickcin said:
Agreed, however fuel without ethanol (corn) is more efficient and produces better results than what the government has mandated and as long as I can easily obtain it, it’s my preferred fuel.

I agree with that thought, my only thoughts are I would not go out of my way, based on my experience, to get non ethanol fuel. My biggest complaint is since the corn is being fed to fuel plants instead of cattle, the cost of beef has gone up. Along with other reasons.

Nov 11, 2023#42

M

moangrass

Rickcin said:
Not sure what the proper name is, however it works as a trickle charger, maintains the current in the battery while it is not in use.

Battery tenders (the brand, but also others - I like Accumate) are smart battery chargers and DO NOT work like trickle chargers. A 'tender' or 'maintainer' senses the voltage, charges the battery in several stages, and shuts off. When the voltage drops it will turn on again and bring the battery up to full charge. Many of these also include a pulsing stage, aka anti-sulfation cycle to break down the lead sulfate on the plates before it crystalizes and hardens. This lengthens the life of the battery.

A trickle charger never shuts off... it simply charges the battery, then over charges it and will vaporize the electrolyte exposing the plates in the cells. Old time trickle chargers are great for slowly charging a battery, but not for extended use.

If you are not going to drain the carb(s) on your small engine, (my Honda engines have thumb screws on a drain on the carb bowl for this purpose) it is better to fill the tank all the way up.

Nov 11, 2023#43

H

hustlersuperduty

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I am a big fan of Startron fuel stabilizer. Sold and used it for years. Always recommended it for winter storage with the heavier dosage and used standard dosage the rest of the year except on my big Z mower. Gas never stays in it very long. I have always stored with tanks full for the winter. 20 years plus as parts manager in the business.

Nov 11, 2023#44

R

Rickcin

MarineBob said:
I agree with that thought, my only thoughts are I would not go out of my way, based on my experience, to get non ethanol fuel. My biggest complaint is since the corn is being fed to fuel plants instead of cattle, the cost of beef has gone up. Along with other reasons.

True, but it’s all politics, our politicians know better, how to spend more than they take it, give financial aid to our adversaries, push electric cars and green energy while buying fuel from other countries even though we have tremendous resources here… need I say more?

Nov 11, 2023#45

ChiefH

fj5gtx said:
Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

I use Ethanol Free gas for all my small engines. I use STA-BIL for the gas only engines, and for my gas+oil I use Stihl 2-cycle oil for my mix. I do not have any problems with engines starting after a long inactive period. I run my snow thrower til dry, but all my other small engine equipment I fill them up with gas or gas+oil mix depending on the type of engine, that keeps the moisture out of the system, and they are ready to go. That is really nice when a tree falls and my chainsaw is ready to work with a couple of pulls.
As for a battery maintainer that is good, but it would be better to remove the battery and keep it in a warm, dry place (and on the maintainer) for the off season.

fj5gtx said:
Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

Nov 11, 2023#46

MyGrassHasCrabs

According to a (4 year old) Briggs and Stratton troubleshooting video, Sta-Bil is their "official" fuel additive.

I think I'm going to start using what someone suggested earlier in this thread for this year's end of season (instead of doing the tried and true carb emptying).

I know folks lie and fabricate reviews all the time, but 647 ~5 star reviews is damn good plus the testimony from the knowledgeable folks here is good enough for me.

(Funny how a random thread redirects me from all of the sh!t I'm supposed to be doing to spending all morning on it

)

Nov 11, 2023#47

B

barny57

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I live in Minnesota put a little additive in the gas and I’ve never had a problem don’t use it for seven months

Nov 11, 2023#48

MarineBob

Seems 'the how to do winter for your mower' topic has lots of ideas. I guess whatever workks for you and makes you feel comfortable is what each person ought to do. As many different answers as questions. The consistent theme is non ethanol gas is a good choice if its available. And folks appear to like SeaFoam

Nov 11, 2023#49

E

elmrfudd

I put StarTron fuel treatment in my gas cans before filling them with ethanol-free gas. StarTron was the only fuel stabilizer we used at the lawn equipment shop I used to work at. Service manager and lead mechanic said it was better than Sta-bil, so I used it in all my equipment during storage, and never had problems with starting my equipment afterwards. Gas with ethanol added is a repair shop’s best friend, as most of the no-start issues were due to the customer using gas with ethanol. When you recommend what gas to use, some will listen, but most will not.

Nov 11, 2023#50

E

elmrfudd

Star Tron Vs Stabil: What Is The Difference In 2023? - A Nest With A Yard

Star Tron vs Stabil? They both stabilize fresh fuel and protect it from ethanol damage. One can restore old fuel too! Find out which one!

anestwithayard.com

Nov 11, 2023#51

MarineBob

elmrfudd said:
I put StarTron fuel treatment in my gas cans before filling them with ethanol-free gas. StarTron was the only fuel stabilizer we used at the lawn equipment shop I used to work at. Service manager and lead mechanic said it was better than Sta-bil, so I used it in all my equipment during storage, and never had problems with starting my equipment afterwards. Gas with ethanol added is a repair shop’s best friend, as most of the no-start issues were due to the customer using gas with ethanol. When you recommend what gas to use, some will listen, but most will not.

When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

Nov 11, 2023#52

R

Rickcin

elmrfudd said:
I put StarTron fuel treatment in my gas cans before filling them with ethanol-free gas. StarTron was the only fuel stabilizer we used at the lawn equipment shop I used to work at. Service manager and lead mechanic said it was better than Sta-bil, so I used it in all my equipment during storage, and never had problems with starting my equipment afterwards. Gas with ethanol added is a repair shop’s best friend, as most of the no-start issues were due to the customer using gas with ethanol. When you recommend what gas to use, some will listen, but most will not.

I just read up on a detailed comparison of Star Tron vs Stabil and the conclusion is that both products are virtually similar even the shelf life once the bottles have been opened.
I dare say either product, probably including Seafoam, will probably suffice and do what they are designed to accomplish

Nov 11, 2023#53

M

moangrass

MyGrassHasCrabs said:
I know folks lie and fabricate reviews all the time, but 647 ~5 star reviews is damn good plus the testimony from the knowledgeable folks here is good enough for me.
View attachment 67293

Lets use a little common sense here. From the website:
https://priproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2015-PRI-G-Flyer.pdf
They say, and I cut and pasted from the description on their website:

PRI-G is a super concentrated, complete fuel treatment that
improves any type of gasoline, enabling it to perform to maximum
potential. PRI-G’s industrial strength, enhanced thermal stability
chemistry reacts with fuel upon contact, and provides multiple
benefits:
 Engines perform better and last longer
 Engine power increased and fuel economy realized
 Fuel system and engine deposits prevented
 Extends fuel storage life, restores degraded fuels
 Hesitation, knocking, and pinging reduced
 Contains no dangerous water emulsifiers

This stuff is added at the rate of 1:2000 (1 gallon of Pri-G will treat 2000 gallons of gas), that means that you add 0.0625 oz per gallon. Just for giggles, I looked up what one fkuid ounce of gasoline weighs (assuming the treatment weighs about the same as the gas). One fl oz of gas weighs 22.15 grams (.78 oz weight measure). Therefore you add 1.41 grams/gallon of gas (0.05 oz by weight). If you go to cc's, this translates to 1.85cc/gallon.

This stuff is obviously designed for bulk treatment of gasoline, and I defy anyone here to quickly and easily measure out this volume. You would have to use a hypodermic needle to pull 2 ccs out of the jar.

I'm not a chemist, but expecting such a small quantity of anything to significantly improve gas mileage, economy, and power beggars the imagination. I'd want to see dyno testing by an independent lab before I believed these claims. If you don't experience pinging/knocking now, reducing the fuel's tendency to do so is of no value. You said 647 five star reviews is damn good. How many of those folks did any testing beyond adding the juice to their gas and starting the engine in the spring? Until someone I respect who knows what this stuff is gives it a gold seal of approval, I'm skeptical they can meet their claims. I'll pass.

Nov 11, 2023#54

F

fzullo

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I always run dry and use Seafoam regularly in all my equipment never have an issue.

Nov 11, 2023#55

Smithsonite

I was a small engine mechanic for 14 years full time - ran a shop out of my house. In my experience, if it has a diaphragm carburetor, you leave it FULL of gas. The diaphragms ALWAYS fail if left dry any length of time.

If it has a float bowl, best course of action is to drain everything dry.

Over the course of just 4 months, usually you can get away with just draining the bowl, and leaving the tank full (So there's no room for moisture to condense inside). Especially through a winter. With snowblowers that get used only 2-3 months per year, plus get stored in hot conditions, draining the bowl after EVERY use is good practice, since you never know when, or IF, the next storm is coming. Then in spring, drain the tank COMPLETELY. Mine will start 1 pull after sitting for years. Same with generators.

Either this, or use E0 in everything. I go out of state where free'er states actually sell it at the pump, and stockpile. Imagine having that convenience, getting off-road fuel at a pump!

(This is MA for ya ...)

I do this with all my equipment. Haven't bought any kind of stabilizer in 24 years, and I live in MA where we get the crap at the pump with zero alternatives, aside from paying $20+ a gallon at the hardware store for the canned stuff. Or $6 a gallon at an airport.

Nov 11, 2023#56

T

txjungle

Sta-bil bottle specifically recommends keeping tank 95%+ full. I would top it off or run it dry.

You might also dump a little bit of Seafoam in the last few sips of fuel before it runs dry.

Nov 11, 2023#57

E

elmrfudd

MarineBob said:
When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

I apologize for lack of clarification in the previous post, so I will do my best to give more details. What I saw was customers who stored their equipment for months on end with untreated ethanol gas. Another common issue was draining gas tanks that had a substantial amount of water in the tank, as ethanol attracts moisture. Many times, upon disassembly of carburetors, ethanol residue buildup ranged from a white powdery substance, to green or copper-brown colored sticky glue-like substance. My clarification is this, if you’re going to use ethanol gas, make sure it’s either stabilized, fresh, and less than 30 days old. Fresh ethanol gas does not create problems, for the most part. But when it’s allowed to become old and stale, you’re asking for problems. Have you ever known anyone who‘s had ethanol gas in a generator or pressure washer for months on end, and had no-start issues with a full tank of gas? I see it constantly. Remember, gasoline will eventually evaporate if uncapped, but the ethanol will always stay behind in one form or another. Hoping I clarified my comment, even just a little. Have a blessed day, everyone!

Nov 11, 2023#58

Smithsonite

Yeah, if you use your equipment constantly and it never sits, then E10 is perfectly fine.

If they sit, then you deal with this ...

Nov 11, 2023#59

Smithsonite

I have more, but they won't upload ...

Nov 11, 2023#60

E

Earthquake Landscaping

I just love e-10 gas. It's milk shake brings the boys to my yard. ( You either get that, or you don't). LOL. Whenever I get, "I don't know, it ran fine last year, now it just won't start", the first thing I do is dump the fuel, completely, clean the plug, and try with my mix. Premium, non Ethanol, with a splash of SeaFoam. Sometimes, that's all it needed to run, and the SeaFoam in the fuel will clean out some of the junk that the E-10 fuel left in the system. By no means a perfect solution, but, if all they want is for it to run, it's a viable alternative to a tear down. You can't put $100.00 worth of labour into a $125.00 piece of equipment. Sometimes, it's time to completely disassemble the carb, run it through an ultrasonic bath, and try again. Sometimes.. it just needs a new carb.

Even with Premium non Ethanol fuel, with SeaFoam as a stabiliser, I still adhere to the 60 day rule. More than 60 days, and it gets tossed out. Necessary? Probably not, but to remove a variable in a no start scenario, it's not worth dicking around with questionable fuel on a customer service, time is money.. . 4 Ski-doos, 3 ATVs' , 2 snow-blowers .. nothing but Premium, Ethanol free.. For the extra 20 cents a litre, it's worth the peace of mind. Got a 1996 Honda Foreman 400 that starts on the first spin. Never had the carb apart, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Big difference too, between a fuel system that's vented ( Lawn mower, snow blower.. stuff with a vented cap), and non vented ( Chain saw, weed whacker, etc.). A vented fuel system "breathes", a lot more air through the system. A lot more. Phase separation occurs when the Ethanol has absorbed all the water that it's attracted, and then continues to attract more moisture. That's when the hurt begins.

I completely agree that newer stuff is built to withstand Ethanol in the fuel ( lines, gaskets, seals, etc),.. But, nothing is meant to withstand the caustic effects that occur, when the fuel has absorbed all that it can, and phase separation trashes the internals of the carb.

Nov 11, 2023#61

R

Rickcin

Earthquake Landscaping said:
I just love e-10 gas. It's milk shake brings the boys to my yard. ( You either get that, or you don't). LOL. Whenever I get, "I don't know, it ran fine last year, now it just won't start", the first thing I do is dump the fuel, completely, clean the plug, and try with my mix. Premium, non Ethanol, with a splash of SeaFoam. Sometimes, that's all it needed to run, and the SeaFoam in the fuel will clean out some of the junk that the E-10 fuel left in the system. By no means a perfect solution, but, if all they want is for it to run, it's a viable alternative to a tear down. You can't put $100.00 worth of labour into a $125.00 piece of equipment. Sometimes, it's time to completely disassemble the carb, run it through an ultrasonic bath, and try again. Sometimes.. it just needs a new carb.

Even with Premium non Ethanol fuel, with SeaFoam as a stabiliser, I still adhere to the 60 day rule. More than 60 days, and it gets tossed out. Necessary? Probably not, but to remove a variable in a no start scenario, it's not worth dicking around with questionable fuel on a customer service, time is money.. . 4 Ski-doos, 3 ATVs' , 2 snow-blowers .. nothing but Premium, Ethanol free.. For the extra 20 cents a litre, it's worth the peace of mind. Got a 1996 Honda Foreman 400 that starts on the first spin. Never had the carb apart, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Big difference too, between a fuel system that's vented ( Lawn mower, snow blower.. stuff with a vented cap), and non vented ( Chain saw, weed whacker, etc.). A vented fuel system "breathes", a lot more air through the system. A lot more. Phase separation occurs when the Ethanol has absorbed all the water that it's attracted, and then continues to attract more moisture. That's when the hurt begins.

I completely agree that newer stuff is built to withstand Ethanol in the fuel ( lines, gaskets, seals, etc),.. But, nothing is meant to withstand the caustic effects that occur, when the fuel has absorbed all that it can, and phase separation trashes the internals of the carb.

And it’s okay to run premium fuel through small one & two cylinder engines?

Nov 11, 2023#62

E

Earthquake Landscaping

Rickcin said:
And it’s okay to run premium fuel through small one & two cylinder engines?

Absolutely! Most manuals ( at least for most 2 strokes ), specify at least a mid grade gasoline. If it's a 4 stroke ( generator, lawnmower, etc.), still no worries. Some 4 stroke manuals will say that you only need regular gas, but, I really can't see a downside to using Premium..

That being said, there's the difference between Premium, and Premium Ethanol free gas. If you can't get Ethanol free, then don't worry about it.. Just be way more OCD, about not leaving fuel in the tool, running it dry, not using fuel over 60 days old, not storing it in a non sealed container, use stabiliser.

My next door neighbour kept using regular fuel, and just tossing the yellow plug over the end of the nozzle, instead of properly sealing the jerry can. Just because you see a Landscaping crew do that, doesn't mean that you should! I explained to him that that might be fine for a crew, using up a few cans a day, but that for him, using a 20 liter ( 5 US gallons ) a month, he was just rapidly turning his fuel into crap. Every time the temperature changed, the tank was breathing in the moisture from the outside air, the aromatics (SP?) that made the gas go "bang" were escaping, etc. It'd also get into phase separation, that then corrupts the carb's internals. When he'd want to borrow something from me, I made a point that I gave him a Jerry can of MY fuel, and told him not to use his can. His riding lawn mower was running like a bag of hammers... It started O.K., but surged like crazy. Without his knowledge, ( random act of kindness), I tossed in some Premium Ethanol free Premium, with a half a can of SeaFoam.. By the time he was done cutting his grass the next time, no more surging, no more rough running. I never told him that I did that.

Nov 11, 2023#63

S

sparg45

slomo said:
Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

I've done the same for 50

slomo said:
Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

fj5gtx said:
Its the ethanol content in the fuel that tends to cause issues for winter storage. In PA we can purchase ethanol free fuel from select gas stations. I usually run the mower on the ethanol free for the last couple tanks before storing it. It is also wise to cut the fuel flow and let the engine die of starvation when you park it, that tends to leave the fuel bowl pretty much empty.

Haven't used anything but 87 grade for 50 yrs in Pa, always kept fuel in tank with Stabil or Seafoam in all equip. and remove my battery from tractor. Never had a problem starting the next year.

Nov 11, 2023#64

J

Joed756

7394 said:
Sta-bil has a limited shelf life.. I think 2 years & it then begins to get sticky in gas tanks etc.. I don't use it.

But agree better to have gas in & the lines hold up better.. I only use 100% non- ethanol gas.. Almost 10 years on my edger & blower on the OE lines.

Sta-bil claims that a bottle kept beyond it's shelf life will not hurt anything, it will just be less effective. Also, it should be noted that a full system won condense and an empty system won't condense, you don't want to store equipment between those extremes without using a fuel stabilizer.

Nov 11, 2023#65

J

Joed756

MarineBob said:
I was told by many small engine people there is no issue with ethanol fuels other than if you have old (15+ years old or older) equipment, there is no issue other than long term storage. Older seals/gaskets were suseptible to ethanol deterioration and a lot of people think that is still this case....not true if the carbs/fuel lines are designed to tolerate ethanol fuel. As with many things, the no ethanol 'rule' has become another not needed restriction based on old impacts that mostly do not exist now. There is a long term storage issue that likely is irrelevant for off season storage of equipment, as long as the seals etc will tolerate ethanol. There is nothing wrong with using ethanol free fuel but you got to decide if its worth the effort to find, purchase and store it. In a way its kind of like the no lead fuel issues that got confounded when lead was taken out of gasoline. For the most part, unless you put on a lot of miles and drove your car hard, especially like for lightly driven collector cars the no lead was not really a significant issue. And the not too difficult fix for that was installation of hardened valve seats. Not trivial but not impossible.

I was going to make a similar post, thanks for saving me 45 minutes or so.

Nov 11, 2023#66

J

Joed756

Gord Baker said:
Most fuel tanks are Vented.

All fuel tanks are vented, otherwise the fuel wouldn't flow from the tank.

Nov 11, 2023#67

R

Rickcin

Earthquake Landscaping said:
Absolutely! Most manuals ( at least for most 2 strokes ), specify at least a mid grade gasoline. If it's a 4 stroke ( generator, lawnmower, etc.), still no worries. Some 4 stroke manuals will say that you only need regular gas, but, I really can't see a downside to using Premium..

That being said, there's the difference between Premium, and Premium Ethanol free gas. If you can't get Ethanol free, then don't worry about it.. Just be way more OCD, about not leaving fuel in the tool, running it dry, not using fuel over 60 days old, not storing it in a non sealed container, use stabiliser.

My next door neighbour kept using regular fuel, and just tossing the yellow plug over the end of the nozzle, instead of properly sealing the jerry can. Just because you see a Landscaping crew do that, doesn't mean that you should! I explained to him that that might be fine for a crew, using up a few cans a day, but that for him, using a 20 liter ( 5 US gallons ) a month, he was just rapidly turning his fuel into crap. Every time the temperature changed, the tank was breathing in the moisture from the outside air, the aromatics (SP?) that made the gas go "bang" were escaping, etc. It'd also get into phase separation, that then corrupts the carb's internals. When he'd want to borrow something from me, I made a point that I gave him a Jerry can of MY fuel, and told him not to use his can. His riding lawn mower was running like a bag of hammers... It started O.K., but surged like crazy. Without his knowledge, ( random act of kindness), I tossed in some Premium Ethanol free Premium, with a half a can of SeaFoam.. By the time he was done cutting his grass the next time, no more surging, no more rough running. I never told him that I did that.

I do have a good metal 5 gallon gas can with the spring loaded lid and always fill it with non ethanol gas and do add sta-bil to all my stored gas for the mowers & generator.

I’m guessing that should be good for about 6 months? Beyond that, I dump it into one of our cars.

Nov 11, 2023#68

M

Majestor

MarineBob said:
When people say ethanol gas is an issue, my first question is what about it? is it 2 years old? Was it in a machine that had seals/gaskets that were not resistant to ethanol (ie, older equipment?) It really does not make sense to say that ethanol gas was a cause of not starting without more details. Millions of small engines run on ethanol gas every day with no issues at all so by itself, ethanol gas is not problematic. Might cause issues that are understandable and avoidable.

Actually ethanol gas is a problem if your power lawn equipment or automobiles have steel fuel lines or gas tanks if you own older equipment. Modern equipment and automobiles have plastic gas tanks and stainless steel tubing or rubber fuel lines to almost nullify the affects alcohol in ethanol of the fuel system creating rust which will cause havoc in carburetors. Let’s say that if you own a 1975 vehicle and you use ethanol fuel you will eventually have rust in the fuel system because of the steel gas tank and fuel lines. I only use ethanol free fuel in my lawn equipment and add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to each of my 2.5 gallon fuel container all year. Before filling the fuel containers, I flush at least five gallons of the fuel feed nozzle of possible ethanol in the pickup line into my truck fuel tank, just to make sure that I will be getting ethanol free gas. Modern gas stations that sell ethanol free gas use station pumps that dispense both ethanol and ethanol free gas, thus the flushing of the fuel nozzle of all ethanol into my truck fuel tank.
On a side note MarineBob, we’re you an F-4 pilot or EWO/Bombadier?

Nov 11, 2023#69

Ohioguy

If I had one mower I would top off tank and add Stabil and run dry. I have 4 garden tractors and two diesel compacts and three motorcycles. I always top of motorcycles because of the metal tank and I always Stabil everything. I spent a lot of money on multiple Battery Tender brand units because a Harbor Freight trickle charger melted!

Nov 11, 2023#70

Z

Zue

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I have been repairing lawn equipment for 10 years. Each rear my advice for storing and general use of OPE has changed little by little. I don’t advise using sta-bil. As it does work if used as directed, many people overdose their fuel and the the sta-bil begins to clog carburetor. I recommend using a product called ethanol shield. You cannot add too much so mixture rate is less of a problem. Draining fuel or running it empty is typically a waste of time as we have seen the residue of fuel left behind still causes issues. Always use ethanol free fuel in your OPE equipment. This is your best defense when storing your equipment. There is a smart phone app called “Pure Gas” that will help you locate places that sell Ethanol Free fuel at the pump.

Nov 11, 2023#71

doug9694

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

Rickcin said:
I only use ethanol free gasoline and I always add stabilizer. Last year I left the lawn tractor with an almost full fuel tank and it started right up in the spring but not sure if that’s the best thing to do?

I have had people bring in mowers that refused to start in the spring due to too much stabilizer. So follow directions! Dry carbs tend to flood the engine in the spring. So keep doing what you have been doing.

Nov 11, 2023#72

MarineBob

Majestor said:
Actually ethanol gas is a problem if your power lawn equipment or automobiles have steel fuel lines or gas tanks if you own older equipment. Modern equipment and automobiles have plastic gas tanks and stainless steel tubing or rubber fuel lines to almost nullify the affects alcohol in ethanol of the fuel system creating rust which will cause havoc in carburetors. Let’s say that if you own a 1975 vehicle and you use ethanol fuel you will eventually have rust in the fuel system because of the steel gas tank and fuel lines. I only use ethanol free fuel in my lawn equipment and add Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer to each of my 2.5 gallon fuel container all year. Before filling the fuel containers, I flush at least five gallons of the fuel feed nozzle of possible ethanol in the pickup line into my truck fuel tank, just to make sure that I will be getting ethanol free gas. Modern gas stations that sell ethanol free gas use station pumps that dispense both ethanol and ethanol free gas, thus the flushing of the fuel nozzle of all ethanol into my truck fuel tank.
On a side note MarineBob, we’re you an F-4 pilot or EWO/Bombadier?

We crayon eaters were MOS 758X as RIO's (Radar Intercept Officer). General designation was NFO. Naval Flight Offiicer

Nov 11, 2023#73

E

edporch

I live in central Indiana.
As far as gasoline goes, since I began using ethanol free gasoline (E0) in my lawn equipment, I just put it away at the end of the season with gasoline still in the tank.
When spring comes, my stuff always starts right up without problem.

I connect a "Battery Tender" to the battery on my Grasshopper, and it also starts right up with no problem.

Nov 11, 2023#74

T

TobyU

As Slomo said, if you run them dry you will end up with rubber Parts like fuel lines cracking earlier than you should and you will need a carburetor repair earlier from the needle and seat not shutting off and flooding out or migrating fuel over into your crankcase so the answer is no! Running them dry is not the best thing to do.
On a riding mower of the size you're mentioning and for a four to five month layout you really don't have to do much of anything because it's just not long enough and it holds enough fuel and passages in the carburetor are large enough that it won't make much difference but it's still best to fill them up with fresh fuel and if you're going to do that you might as well have that fuel be stabilized.
Now with the Honda mower it's much more important. The fuel shut off means nothing overall other than the fact you can shut it off and let it run for a minute or so until it actually dies out and you've got most of you out of there quickly.
Let me explain why this works better than someone just leaving a haphazard amount of gas in there or running them to what they think is dry from the fuel tank.
The problem with fuel is that is always in a process of evaporation and it always leaves crap behind nowadays.
So the problem is the more you have to evaporate the more it leaves. It's kind of like reducing something down on my stove and if you take raspberries or blueberries and do that you will see what starts out decently ends up being a gummy nasty mess by the time you're done. You certainly wouldn't want that inside your fuel system or carburetor yet I have found things that look just like that in the bowl of a carburetor like a mahogany colored sticky syrupy mess.

So when you run the tank dry until it stalls it still has more fuel in there and in the fuel line and then by the time you move it back around and it gets shaking All around they're just ends up being more fuel in the carburetor too evaporate down like this. When you shut off the fuel valve you're able to get rid of the vast majority of it right then and the small amount left probably won't leave enough of a concoction created problem and as soon as you turn the valve back on the deluge the fuel going in there will probably send everything out just fine.

But let's not forget that until the new overhead valve engines took over from the EPA law changing at the end of 2015 in the US, Hondas were the most finicky engine you can find.

On any smaller engine like that like on a push mower, generator. Pressure washer, tiller, log splitter, snowblower... At the bare minimum you should go by fresh gas the last time you're going to use the piece of equipment before you put it away and fill it full with fresh fuel and then when you're done top it off because that starts the clock from that day with fresh gas.
The much better thing and what I feel is the best thing to do is to add 1 oz of stabilizer for each gallon of fuel you're going to buy to an empty gas can a day as you go to the station to buy fresh gas.
Then get your gas so you're now have 1 oz of stabilizer to every gallon of fuel for instance if you're using sta-bil then go home and fill that equipment to the top of the tank and run it the whole time you need to use it and then when you're done top it off again and walk away from it.
With a Honda it doesn't matter to me whether you then turn the valve off or not but there is no reason to turn the valve off and let it run until it dies with this fresh stabilized fuel in there because the stuff is going to stay cleaner with that fresh gas keeping everything covered as opposed to the oxidation that starts to occur and the coating it starts to occur on the float when you drain the fuel off of those surfaces

Nov 11, 2023#75

B

Beesnweeds

I use non ethanol and Star Tron fuel treatment. I'm in the north east and never have a problem. Everything fires right up in the spring. Snow blower starts right up in the winter after sitting all summer and fall.

Nov 11, 2023#76

M

Majestor

MarineBob said:
We crayon eaters were MOS 758X as RIO's (Radar Intercept Officer). General designation was NFO. Naval Flight Offiicer

Thank you for your service sir, I was in Nam 69-70.

Nov 11, 2023#77

MarineBob

I was toolate for that fun in the sun. '74-81, mostly in Beaufort and WestPac tour

Nov 11, 2023#78

R

Rickcin

TobyU said:
As Slomo said, if you run them dry you will end up with rubber Parts like fuel lines cracking earlier than you should and you will need a carburetor repair earlier from the needle and seat not shutting off and flooding out or migrating fuel over into your crankcase so the answer is no! Running them dry is not the best thing to do.
On a riding mower of the size you're mentioning and for a four to five month layout you really don't have to do much of anything because it's just not long enough and it holds enough fuel and passages in the carburetor are large enough that it won't make much difference but it's still best to fill them up with fresh fuel and if you're going to do that you might as well have that fuel be stabilized.
Now with the Honda mower it's much more important. The fuel shut off means nothing overall other than the fact you can shut it off and let it run for a minute or so until it actually dies out and you've got most of you out of there quickly.
Let me explain why this works better than someone just leaving a haphazard amount of gas in there or running them to what they think is dry from the fuel tank.
The problem with fuel is that is always in a process of evaporation and it always leaves crap behind nowadays.
So the problem is the more you have to evaporate the more it leaves. It's kind of like reducing something down on my stove and if you take raspberries or blueberries and do that you will see what starts out decently ends up being a gummy nasty mess by the time you're done. You certainly wouldn't want that inside your fuel system or carburetor yet I have found things that look just like that in the bowl of a carburetor like a mahogany colored sticky syrupy mess.

So when you run the tank dry until it stalls it still has more fuel in there and in the fuel line and then by the time you move it back around and it gets shaking All around they're just ends up being more fuel in the carburetor too evaporate down like this. When you shut off the fuel valve you're able to get rid of the vast majority of it right then and the small amount left probably won't leave enough of a concoction created problem and as soon as you turn the valve back on the deluge the fuel going in there will probably send everything out just fine.

But let's not forget that until the new overhead valve engines took over from the EPA law changing at the end of 2015 in the US, Hondas were the most finicky engine you can find.

On any smaller engine like that like on a push mower, generator. Pressure washer, tiller, log splitter, snowblower... At the bare minimum you should go by fresh gas the last time you're going to use the piece of equipment before you put it away and fill it full with fresh fuel and then when you're done top it off because that starts the clock from that day with fresh gas.
The much better thing and what I feel is the best thing to do is to add 1 oz of stabilizer for each gallon of fuel you're going to buy to an empty gas can a day as you go to the station to buy fresh gas.
Then get your gas so you're now have 1 oz of stabilizer to every gallon of fuel for instance if you're using sta-bil then go home and fill that equipment to the top of the tank and run it the whole time you need to use it and then when you're done top it off again and walk away from it.
With a Honda it doesn't matter to me whether you then turn the valve off or not but there is no reason to turn the valve off and let it run until it dies with this fresh stabilized fuel in there because the stuff is going to stay cleaner with that fresh gas keeping everything covered as opposed to the oxidation that starts to occur and the coating it starts to occur on the float when you drain the fuel off of those surfaces

Great information and it really makes a whole lot of sense and explained well, thank you!

Every gas can I fill, I add STA-BIL that day so I don’t have to think about if the gas has been stabilize.
I also put a piece of blue tape on each can with the date of when the gas was purchase.
I’m definitely an over thinker but I do enjoy knowing how to properly maintain everything that we own including our vehicle, yes I’m anal about certain things

Nov 11, 2023#79

P

PGB1

One could do like my next door neighbors do:
Leave the mower, blower, trimmer and edger exactly where you used them last because it's too much trouble to put them in the shed or garage.

When next needed, take the tools to the repair shop. Upon return, dump in the ancient gasoline that has been in the can since Fred Flintstone filled it. Return them to the repair shop. Repeat.

Next season, after being buried in the snow, buy all new stuff. Year after year! Someone has to keep the landfills full and the Chinese economy going.

Paul
PS: The local repair shop guy told me once "They bought me my Lexus."

Nov 11, 2023#80

Moparjoe499

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

Just leave the fuel in. It won't hurt anything. I had a snowblower that I have not used in 6 years. I got it started in 4 pulls.

Nov 11, 2023#81

B

bill.g

If the engine is only down for a few months just add some stabilizer then run the carb dry. Make sure to top up the fuel tank because that keeps the air in the tank from collecting moisture and then having water or rust problems!

Nov 11, 2023#82

Moparjoe499

slomo said:
Used to run everything dry several years ago. Noticed trimmer lines and mower lines would get hard from being dry for a couple months. Was a yearly or bi-yearly chore replacing fuel lines.

Started using Stabil fuel stabilizer year round. Even use during mowing season. Reason is I never have to remember how old the fuel is like before.

Now 1-3 pulls in the spring and I'm off cutting grass. Never had any more fuel or hose issues again. I run 100% 87 octane unleaded in all OPE equipment. Going strong for about 7-8 years now this way.

Sta bil additive contains either petroleum distillates or mineral spirits. Check the sta bil MSDS sheet. Sta bil is a money scam.

Nov 11, 2023#83

Moparjoe499

bill.g said:
If the engine is only down for a few months just add some stabilizer then run the carb dry. Make sure to top up the fuel tank because that keeps the air in the tank from collecting moisture and then having water or rust problems!

If it's down for just a few months, there is no need to run the carb dry.

Nov 11, 2023#84

R

Rickcin

PGB1 said:
One could do like my next door neighbors do:
Leave the mower, blower, trimmer and edger exactly where you used them last because it's too much trouble to put them in the shed or garage.

When next needed, take the tools to the repair shop. Upon return, dump in the ancient gasoline that has been in the can since Fred Flintstone filled it. Return them to the repair shop. Repeat.

Next season, after being buried in the snow, buy all new stuff. Year after year! Someone has to keep the landfills full and the Chinese economy going.

Paul
PS: The local repair shop guy told me once "They bought me my Lexus."

Yeah, there are people like that and perhaps money is meaningless to them, but then, why would they be doing these landscaping chores themselves?
Unfortunately the US has an over abundance of lazy and stupid people.

Nov 11, 2023#85

P

PGB1

Moparjoe499 said:
Sta bil additive contains either petroleum distillates or mineral spirits. Check the sta bil MSDS sheet. Sta bil is a money scam.

I've know people who put a drop of motor or olive oil in the fuel to essentially (maybe) accomplish the same thing- seal moisture & oxygen out.

Me? I pony up and buy Lucas Fuel Stabilizer 10302. A $4.98 bottle treats 40 gallons. Five dollar peace of mind?

Exactly as MoparJoe said about Stabil, Lucas is made of "petroleum distillates" (And naphtha- another petroleum distillate.) Plus, alkyl phenol, a cleaner.

Paul

Nov 11, 2023#86

7394

Joed756 said:
Sta-bil claims that a bottle kept beyond it's shelf life will not hurt anything, it will just be less effective. Also, it should be noted that a full system won condense and an empty system won't condense, you don't want to store equipment between those extremes without using a fuel stabilizer.

Yea, OK, I won't ever use it again.. You go ahead. Everyone has their own way.

Nov 11, 2023#87

P

PGB1

Rickcin said:
Yeah, there are people like that and perhaps money is meaningless to them, but then, why would they be doing these landscaping chores themselves?
Unfortunately the US has an over abundance of lazy and stupid people.

Never thunk of that: Why, indeed, are they doing the lawn themselves?

Money doesn't mean anything to them because everything is free. The whole box of them are on SSI. Far newer cars & trucks than mine, daily trips to buy beer, pop, pizza & cigarettes, but SSI none the less. (The callouses on my hands say I'm doing life all wrong!)

Nov 11, 2023#88

P

perimeterlandscaping@comc

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

all mower engines, and v twin engines in particular will need the coils wire wheeled after rust sets in on the contacts from inactivity and exposure to moisture. to do this youll have to remove the starter, the fly wheel pully if so equipped, all the plastics, and get to where the coils can be unbolted from the chassis...wire wheel the rust away on all sides of the coil, not just the portion facing the magneto, and then regap them with a business card on reassembly. not too hard and can easily be done. if the shed is water tight from the outside elements, probably wont have to do it at all, but if even a moderate amount of moisture is able to get through, might be looking at a minor service procedure

Nov 12, 2023#89

B

Billlh

So I live in NY and I've been doing this for a very long time. Part of being an old guy. I fill the tanks and park them. If I can't get power to the battery I take them out and keep them in my partially heated garage and charge them a few times over the winter. The rest stay in the tractors and I keep a maintainer on them. I'm getting lazy in my old age. I've never used Stabil and have zero intentions of starting now. So far I haven't had many issues. The mowers start in the spring and we go back to mowing. Occasionally they require a bit of starting fluid to get them going again. I have quite a few lawn tractors 4 John Deere's 1 JD zero turn couple Grasshoppers and an older Craftsman. I treat them all the same way. I do run ethanol-free gas in my trimmers and blowers. But I burn way too much fuel mowing to spend all that on ethanol-free gas. And no I'm not a commercial mower though I have enough equipment to be one lol.

Nov 12, 2023#90

MarineBob

Billlh said:
So I live in NY and I've been doing this for a very long time. Part of being an old guy. I fill the tanks and park them. If I can't get power to the battery I take them out and keep them in my partially heated garage and charge them a few times over the winter. The rest stay in the tractors and I keep a maintainer on them. I'm getting lazy in my old age. I've never used Stabil and have zero intentions of starting now. So far I haven't had many issues. The mowers start in the spring and we go back to mowing. Occasionally they require a bit of starting fluid to get them going again. I have quite a few lawn tractors 4 John Deere's 1 JD zero turn couple Grasshoppers and an older Craftsman. I treat them all the same way. I do run ethanol-free gas in my trimmers and blowers. But I burn way too much fuel mowing to spend all that on ethanol-free gas. And no I'm not a commercial mower though I have enough equipment to be one lol.

Here in taxachusetts as I mentioned before, I do about the same. One thing I did a few years back is buy a battery maintainer device. I think the reason I got it was there was some sort of sale or I got a good price off coupon. As what my my wife calls me, a FOG, ....&%$$**%$#@....Old Guy, I guess I am not changing my approach and though it does not matter one bit, I now wonder why there seems to be a pretty significant difference in how folks wintrerize their lawn equipment. I wonder if there is enough fuel formulae differences here and there or dealer to dealer to make a difference? I am confident a lot of the concerns have simply persisted and won't go away from the first days of ethanol adds when the fuel systems did not tolerate the stuff.

Nov 12, 2023#91

Smithsonite

I hear that, fellas. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's worked for years continues to work for me as well.

Nov 12, 2023#92

B

Billlh

MarineBob said:
Here in taxachusetts as I mentioned before, I do about the same. One thing I did a few years back is buy a battery maintainer device. I think the reason I got it was there was some sort of sale or I got a good price off coupon. As what my my wife calls me, a FOG, ....&%$$**%$#@....Old Guy, I guess I am not changing my approach and though it does not matter one bit, I now wonder why there seems to be a pretty significant difference in how folks wintrerize their lawn equipment. I wonder if there is enough fuel formulae differences here and there or dealer to dealer to make a difference? I am confident a lot of the concerns have simply persisted and won't go away from the first days of ethanol adds when the fuel systems did not tolerate the stuff.

I use the maintainers a lot simply because I have so many machines and it's a royal pain to pull all those batteries out and bring them home (I have several properties ). Then take them all back and put them in the appropriate machines. Plus then I have to mark them all with markers so I know which battery is which lol. It's just a lot easier to have multiple maintainers on the machines all the time when they aren't in use. I still have a few I have to pull and then put back in, because I don't have power near them. But it's nowhere near as complicated as it used to be. 1st world problems I know lol.

Nov 12, 2023#93

B

Billlh

Smithsonite said:
I hear that, fellas. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's worked for years continues to work for me as well.

Yeah pretty much how I feel, I've spent all these years unenlightened. I think I'll just stay that way lol.

Nov 12, 2023#94

MarineBob

Billlh said:
Yeah pretty much how I feel, I've spent all these years unenlightened. I think I'll just stay that way lol.

Speaking of enlightened......my goal is to be the last person on earth to have a cell phone. Sadly I have had to learn how to use some features on my wife's phone to be able to live these days. I do get some adverse feed back when I suggest my thoughts on texting..........My view: texting is an activity best left to thirteen years old girls who want to know about who the cute boy in their class is. Otherwise, if you got something to say to me, say it to my face or in vocal words

Nov 12, 2023#95

B

Billlh

MarineBob said:
Speaking of enlightened......my goal is to be the last person on earth to have a cell phone. Sadly I have had to learn how to use some features on my wife's phone to be able to live these days. I do get some adverse feed back when I suggest my thoughts on texting..........My view: texting is an activity best left to thirteen years old girls who want to know about who the cute boy in their class is. Otherwise, if you got something to say to me, say it to my face or in vocal words

Well Bob I'm not quite that "Unenlightened" lol. I actually do use a phone to text and make phone calls. You might want to try that someday, you may find they can be quite useful.

Nov 12, 2023#96

MarineBob

Billlh said:
Well Bob I'm not quite that "Unenlightened" lol. I actually do use a phone to text and make phone calls. You might want to try that someday, you may find they can be quite useful.

Not to get too philospohical but I think the ability to instantaneously communicate has caused a decay to society. No one plans anything, everything is extemporantous, no body thinks any more, they just 'do.' Tell your grandkids about when you were a kid and since the family did not have any extra money we had a party line telephone. Try to explain that to a 15 year old....LOL

Nov 12, 2023#97

P

PGB1

MarineBob said:
Not to get too philospohical but I think the ability to instantaneously communicate has caused a decay to society....

I was on a project recently where 32 of us all went to lunch and sat at one long table in a college dining hall. During lunch, not one work was spoken because each person had their face buried in his or her cell phone. Decay, as MarineBob accurately put it!

All of the other tables were alive with students' conversations. On the way out, I noticed a basket at the entrance with a sign "Deposit Phones Here". For the rest of the project, I dined with the kids.
Paul

Nov 12, 2023#98

D

davis2

Billlh said:
So I live in NY and I've been doing this for a very long time. Part of being an old guy. I fill the tanks and park them. If I can't get power to the battery I take them out and keep them in my partially heated garage and charge them a few times over the winter. The rest stay in the tractors and I keep a maintainer on them. I'm getting lazy in my old age. I've never used Stabil and have zero intentions of starting now. So far I haven't had many issues. The mowers start in the spring and we go back to mowing. Occasionally they require a bit of starting fluid to get them going again. I have quite a few lawn tractors 4 John Deere's 1 JD zero turn couple Grasshoppers and an older Craftsman. I treat them all the same way. I do run ethanol-free gas in my trimmers and blowers. But I burn way too much fuel mowing to spend all that on ethanol-free gas. And no I'm not a commercial mower though I have enough equipment to be one lol.

Bill, where in NY are you at? I'm from Lee Center in Oneida County. After years of fighting with snowmobile carbs, I started using non-ethanol fuel and stabilizer with a splash of MMO in my fuel can. I've had good luck even now that I live on the Delmarva Peninsula in Maryland. I'd say if you use a good quality fuel, you could get away with no stabilizer. But as a younger man, I always didn't have the time or $ to do things the right way. So I've found what works for me. If something works, do it how you want, right?

Nov 12, 2023#99

7394

Agree, I'm not into cellphones..

Nov 12, 2023#100

MarineBob

PGB1 said:
I was on a project recently where 32 of us all went to lunch and sat at one long table in a college dining hall. During lunch, not one work was spoken because each person had their face buried in his or her cell phone. Decay, as MarineBob accurately put it!

All of the other tables were alive with students' conversations. On the way out, I noticed a basket at the entrance with a sign "Deposit Phones Here". For the rest of the project, I dined with the kids.
Paul

Just to extend my thoughts a bit, the world of no planning, everything spur of the moment, no planning ahead: aside from lack of communicating, it breeds lack of accountability and responsibility. In other words, if I say, let's meet at noon, tomorrow for lunch, I will be there. But the phone generation will say, yeah, I didn't make it, I texted John at 11:45 to say something came up. And sadly the texter will actually beleive such behavior is acceptable and not disrespectful. I think that sort of lack of civil behavior is bred by the face in the phone generation. I used to drive to my job a few years ago. I went by several school bus stops with 6-8 kids waiting on the corner. Amazingly every day, each and every one had their face buried in their phone. Every day, every morning at 7 AM

Nov 13, 2023#101

B

Billlh

davis2 said:
Bill, where in NY are you at? I'm from Lee Center in Oneida County. After years of fighting with snowmobile carbs, I started using non-ethanol fuel and stabilizer with a splash of MMO in my fuel can. I've had good luck even now that I live on the Delmarva Peninsula in Maryland. I'd say if you use a good quality fuel, you could get away with no stabilizer. But as a younger man, I always didn't have the time or $ to do things the right way. So I've found what works for me. If something works, do it how you want, right?

I'm along the Lake Erie Shore near the PA border. I generally buy the stuff sold on the Indian reservations cause it's the cheapest. I burn a lot of fuel over the summer. So I don't know I just do what works for me. I burn way too much fuel in tractors to buy Ethanol-free stuff. Plus I use it in my vehicles since it's all the same gas. Lots of times I'll fill one or more up with cans before I take a trip to refill all the cans. I have a lot of 5-gallon cans too lol. I do however do so for my trimmers. I buy that stuff usually a gallon at a time to do the mix ratio. Maybe I'm just lucky but it's what I do and have been doing for years.

Nov 13, 2023#102

D

davis2

Billlh said:
I'm along the Lake Erie Shore near the PA border. I generally buy the stuff sold on the Indian reservations cause it's the cheapest. I burn a lot of fuel over the summer. So I don't know I just do what works for me. I burn way too much fuel in tractors to buy Ethanol-free stuff. Plus I use it in my vehicles since it's all the same gas. Lots of times I'll fill one or more up with cans before I take a trip to refill all the cans. I have a lot of 5-gallon cans too lol. I do however do so for my trimmers. I buy that stuff usually a gallon at a time to do the mix ratio. Maybe I'm just lucky but it's what I do and have been doing for years.

So you know lake effect too... I lived in the flight path to Griffiss AFB. Also in the lake Ontario lake effect area. 55 years of that was enough! But yeah do what works for you. I have a station that sells a lot of non-ethanol fuel to the boaters in the Chesapeake Bay, and they are 5 miles away, and the closest station. Pumps are on 24/7...

Nov 13, 2023#103

B

BTBO

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

I have a Scag Liberty Z w/Kawa engine and a TroyBilt push mower w/Honda engine. My method of winter storage for both is to use Seafoam (3ozs/gallon) Stabil Marine and Yamaha RingFree in nothing but ethanol free gas. During the off season. I will crank up both at least twice monthly and let 'em run for 5+ minutes. With the Scag, I engage the blades as well. With that 3 prong brew of additives, I have never had a problem with those engines starting easily. I believe one of the worst things you can do to an engine is not run it----even if it's just for several months. Gotta keep those seals, gaskets, etc from drying out and become brittle.

Nov 13, 2023#104

C

Craiger

Rickcin said:
Live in SW Virginia with a 4 month moderately cold winter and I keep my Cub Cadet 42 tractor in a shed with a push Honda mower. The tractor battery stays in tact but I do keep it connected to a battery tender.
Is it better to complete run the engines dry of fuel (with an empty tank) or, as I have read elsewhere, fill the tanks with conditioned fuel to minimize any possible condensation?
The Honda push mower has a fuel shut off valve ( as does my Honda generator) however the tractor does not, in case any of that matters? Thanks

When you say "battery tender" using lower case it may confuse people. They might think you mean old fashioned trickle charger. "Battery Tender" is a trademarked brand name and as another posting said, is a smart charger. There are plenty of other good ones including CTEK and Noco Genius. A smart charger senses when the battery nears full charge and tapers off the voltage applied until it will balance and just keep the battery fully charged. If by "battery tender" you meant old fashioned dumb trickle charger, it is a bad idea to leave it plugged in continuously. It will overcharge the battery if left on for extended periods, boiling away the electrolyte in the battery and damaging it. These days, smart chargers have become ubiquitous and are quite reasonably priced. I have thrown away my old school battery chargers and only use smart chargers. Some are smarter than others and have special settings for small batteries like lawn tractor and motorcycle, some have settings for AGM or Li batteries, some have desulfate and recondition cycles. You get what you pay for. To answer your question about winter storage, I live much further north of you and all I have done for years with lawn tractor and snow blower is to siphon most of the gas out of the tank and dump that in a car. Then I start the machine with a jack or wood blocks under the appropriate side to cause the remaining gas to run towards the tank outlet and run it until it stalls. I don't bother with Stabil. I've never had a problem in over 40 years of doing this. If you want to use Stabil it won't hurt anything and might help but from my experience it would be overkill if you run the engine dry.

Nov 13, 2023#105

7394

I only use Battery MINDers 1.5mA, they also have temp compensators to regulate float level by the temp around them..
Last deltran battery tender .750 mA I had cooked my H-D Fat Boy battery. It sleeps with the fishes for many years now..

Nov 15, 2023#106

H

hotajax

MyGrassHasCrabs said:
According to a (4 year old) Briggs and Stratton troubleshooting video, Sta-Bil is their "official" fuel additive.

I think I'm going to start using what someone suggested earlier in this thread for this year's end of season (instead of doing the tried and true carb emptying).

I know folks lie and fabricate reviews all the time, but 647 ~5 star reviews is damn good plus the testimony from the knowledgeable folks here is good enough for me.

(Funny how a random thread redirects me from all of the sh!t I'm supposed to be doing to spending all morning on it )
View attachment 67293

You're making THE correct choice to preserve your expensive e-free gasoline.

Nov 15, 2023#107

7394

stabil has expiration dater on bottle..

Seafoam is good forever..

Nov 18, 2023#108

Moparjoe499

PGB1 said:
I've know people who put a drop of motor or olive oil in the fuel to essentially (maybe) accomplish the same thing- seal moisture & oxygen out.

Me? I pony up and buy Lucas Fuel Stabilizer 10302. A $4.98 bottle treats 40 gallons. Five dollar peace of mind?

Exactly as MoparJoe said about Stabil, Lucas is made of "petroleum distillates" (And naphtha- another petroleum distillate.) Plus, alkyl phenol, a cleaner.

Paul

It won't hurt it to set over the winter. I have a snowblower that has not been started in over 6 years. I choked it, pulled it 3 times and it runs great like it always has. People get anal over anything.

Nov 18, 2023#109

Moparjoe499

Rickcin said:
Yeah, there are people like that and perhaps money is meaningless to them, but then, why would they be doing these landscaping chores themselves?
Unfortunately the US has an over abundance of lazy and stupid people.

Lazy and stupid is right. They either pay someone to cut their grass or they watch their grass grow. Several years ago our neighbor would cut his grass every 2 days even in the summertime with no rain. The grass didnt have a chance to grow 1/2 inch.

Nov 18, 2023#110

MarineBob

Moparjoe499 said:
Lazy and stupid is right. They either pay someone to cut their grass or they watch their grass grow. Several years ago our neighbor would cut his grass every 2 days even in the summertime with no rain. The grass didnt have a chance to grow 1/2 inch.

We have neighbors who have a landscaper mow their lawns. I guess they have some sort of contract so every week, rain, shine, cold, hot, April through Novemeber, here in New England they show up. But the folks also water the Be-Jesus out of the lawns. Rain shine, wet dry, auto sprinklers like clock work. NO one seems to have any concern about water usage so long as the grass is green with lots of chemicals applied. So the routine is water mow whack and blow, water mow whack and blow: repeat endlessly. Personally, I am a little rain fan, eliminates the need to mow during August more than once maybe twice.

Nov 19, 2023#111

D

dana a

I have never used any fuel additive and have never had any problems starting in the spring. I shut the fuel off and run the engine till it starts to die out then I apply the choke and let it run till it dies and that probably gets all of the gas out of the bowl. I have unplugged a lot of carbureators for other people but none were mine.

Nov 19, 2023#112

R

Rickcin

dana a said:
I have never used any fuel additive and have never had any problems starting in the spring. I shut the fuel off and run the engine till it starts to die out then I apply the choke and let it run till it dies and that probably gets all of the gas out of the bowl. I have unplugged a lot of carbureators for other people but none were mine.

Guess there are several tried techniques that work and I’ve read that even letting it run out of fuel can eventually leave some residue that bill build up, in the carb. Others say this technique causes the fuel hose to dry out, so perhaps there are several different ways to ensure a good spring startup with a clean carb?
Im kind of black & white and always want to follow the best possible procedure, however it seems as though there are several and no one best scenario in this case?

Nov 25, 2023#113

Moparjoe499

How does everyone like the new CHINASTRATTON push mower motors. The oil ring on the old 3 horse Briggs measures .187 . The oil ring on the new china crap motors measures .100 . Stop wasting your money on cheap China made crap. The ignition coils are also MADE IN CHINA CRAP. They are on back order.

Dec 10, 2023#114

C

CraftsmanFlaws

The worst thing you can do is to leave untreated, ethanol garbage gas in your tractor for the winter. The advice given by some here to do so is just asking for problems. The fuel will create condensation (water), turn toxic and the ethanol in it will eat away at rubber & carburetor parts.

First off, use the correct amount of Sea Foam (1 T. per gallon) ALL CUTTING SEASON to neutralize the ethanol. Then, when you've done your last cut for the season, figure out (overestimate rather than underestimate) how many gallons it will take to fill the gas tank to the top, & add 1 T. per gallon. It doesn't have to be exact, it just shouldn't be double or more the correct amount. Then start your mower up, run it for 10 minutes, engagement lever off, just to circulate the Seafoam so it gets into the carburetor.

From everyone I talk to and reading of posts, I don't think it is necessary to have the gas tank full, but it should at least be 2/3 full.

Dec 10, 2023#115

R

Rickcin

CraftsmanFlaws said:
The worst thing you can do is to leave untreated, ethanol garbage gas in your tractor for the winter. The advice given by some here to do so is just asking for problems. The fuel will create condensation (water), turn toxic and the ethanol in it will eat away at rubber & carburetor parts.

First off, use the correct amount of Sea Foam (1 T. per gallon) ALL CUTTING SEASON to neutralize the ethanol. Then, when you've done your last cut for the season, figure out (overestimate rather than underestimate) how many gallons it will take to fill the gas tank to the top, & add 1 T. per gallon. It doesn't have to be exact, it just shouldn't be double or more the correct amount. Then start your mower up, run it for 10 minutes, engagement lever off, just to circulate the Seafoam so it gets into the carburetor.

From everyone I talk to and reading of posts, I don't think it is necessary to have the gas tank full, but it should at least be 2/3 full.

Agreed and I only use non ethanol gas in all of my small engines. We can thank our government for the useless benefit of adding corn to our fossil fuel!

Dec 10, 2023#116

MarineBob

Twelve pages of endorsement and experience ranging from do nothing to drain, refill with no ethanol fuel and everything in between. It seems the answer lies somewhere. I believe it was Nitche who said something like 'extremes distort the truth, yet provide perspectives for reality.' That sentiment lives on

Dec 10, 2023#117

MarineBob

Rickcin said:
Agreed and I only use non ethanol gas in all of my small engines. We can thank our government for the useless benefit of adding corn to our fossil fuel!

But just think how much cow flatulance we are saving....instead of making some nice steaks

Dec 10, 2023#118

Hammermechanicman

Dec 10, 2023#119

Moparjoe499

CraftsmanFlaws said:
The worst thing you can do is to leave untreated, ethanol garbage gas in your tractor for the winter. The advice given by some here to do so is just asking for problems. The fuel will create condensation (water), turn toxic and the ethanol in it will eat away at rubber & carburetor parts.

First off, use the correct amount of Sea Foam (1 T. per gallon) ALL CUTTING SEASON to neutralize the ethanol. Then, when you've done your last cut for the season, figure out (overestimate rather than underestimate) how many gallons it will take to fill the gas tank to the top, & add 1 T. per gallon. It doesn't have to be exact, it just shouldn't be double or more the correct amount. Then start your mower up, run it for 10 minutes, engagement lever off, just to circulate the Seafoam so it gets into the carburetor.

From everyone I talk to and reading of posts, I don't think it is necessary to have the gas tank full, but it should at least be 2/3 full.

Oh BullSxxx. I have a snowblower that has not been started since I last used it in 2016. I choked it , pulled it 3 times and it ran perfectly. People are so anal about storage of their lawn mowers. Stop spending extra money on these products. If you have and PETROLEUM DISTILLATES or MINERAL SPIRITS, just put a little of either in the tank.

Dec 10, 2023#120

7394

CraftsmanFlaws said:
Sea Foam (1 T. per gallon)

Ahh, 1 OZ. per gal..

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