my fix to overheating tractor

motoman

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Heat and Oil: Sifting the "data"

Trying to undertand what happens to air cooled tractors looks like building a case of circumstantial evidence. Here's a self dialog. Chime in people, In no particular order. It is said...
A. Oil breakdown is around 225F.AA. What is oil breakdown? B. At around 300F sludge forms.BB.Not found here ,2 teardowns 300F. C. At viscosity breakdown oil pressure drops dramatically CC. Not found here,always 35-40PSI hawkeye. D.Beede oil gauge goes to 320F Others too.DD.Gauge engineers know something. E.Kohler not worried below 300F . EE why? F.Engineering table (SAE related 1999) category "flash,"defined oil bcomes vapor and ignites. Table 10W-30 lowest flash by mfg 390F. FF.Doomsday. G.Fuel dragster crew "worried" at 340F. GG. Armageddon. H.Pan temp
230F is tops HH. Then oil is at about 210F? I.Recommended oil temp by mfgrs Kawasaki 210F BMW bike 225F Harley 240F Suzuki 248F Vespa 195F Intek silence II Hmmmmm.

Reread "Hot rides" above. Don't die with a secret, people. Let' hear it. Motoman
 

reddragon

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reddragon, it appears that he is using a 'bead' type thermo couple on the Fluke (I have the same instrument-rather I have the same model instrument), and from the pics it would be very easy to insert the tcouple into either the hydro/engine oil dipstick tube ?? If this was the protocol, I would have a very high degree of confidence in the displayed data.
Mine is in the van somewhere, I will measure the length of the thermocouple-I should know the length-gotta be at least 18".

Is your thought the displayed temps are low, high or about right?

well....the immersion temps are the real data there.. my first question..... is the immersion reading done after the engine is shut off?....all engines have sudden spike in temp after shut off but then cool quickly....it would be best if the test was taken while the engine was running.....i think i want one of those testers :thumbsup:
 

motoman

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Latest heat data with cooling fix

Today I hauled 3 trailer loads of branches ,deck on , 81F ambient. The Beede gauge stable at 220F, no fan. Before shutdown I ran the fan beyond the usual 5 min it takes to dump 3 baskets of grass to see how low it can go. It stablilized at 165F after about 10 min. That 55F drop to potentially be added to "hot" drop 70F (300F down to 230F). This 125F drop with this prototype fix only blowing hard accross the bottom 25% of the cooler. Motoman :wink:
 

benski

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Wow! It's working!:biggrin: I'll have to take a guess here and say the lower limit of our oil temp. should be about 180*F. Anyone else out there have some thoughts?

By the way, motoman, I took a temperature reading on the oil filter on my cub cadet 2164 with the commercial duty 18hp Briggs in it yesterday after 1/2 an hour of mowing , ambient air temp 67*F, and it was 254*F. That's with synthetic lube in it. My test donkey is still awaiting some repairs.:ashamed::biggrin: when I get it going I'll do a little more "testing" between synthetic and conventional oil temps, as unscientific as I might be.:laughing:
 

motoman

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Wow! It's working!:biggrin: I'll have to take a guess here and say the lower limit of our oil temp. should be about 180*F. Anyone else out there have some thoughts?

By the way, motoman, I took a temperature reading on the oil filter on my cub cadet 2164 with the commercial duty 18hp Briggs in it yesterday after 1/2 an hour of mowing , ambient air temp 67*F, and it was 254*F. That's with synthetic lube in it. My test donkey is still awaiting some repairs.:ashamed::biggrin: when I get it going I'll do a little more "testing" between synthetic and conventional oil temps, as unscientific as I might be.:laughing:

Benski, jolly good. I have read repeatedly sumps need 180F to drive off moisture. If there's anything to one outside blog , pans run 20 degrees hotter than oil. Another good VW site insists most oil gauges are about 40 degrees low in their mid range. I know the Beede I have is not linear. Robert and Red Dragon seem to using very acccurate VOM related heat probe. Maybe we can compare gauge vs thermocouple. That VW site showed a dipstick heat sensor widely used but not rugged. Motoman
 

demhustler

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when Dixie Chopper start putting oil coolers on their mower engines - Kohler denied its necessity
now - its on all their bigger engines (like one on pict)
location, restriction of air flow and clogging-in of this small radiators (oil, dust, mud and degrees magnet (collector) - could be questionable, but not it's usefulness

3107d1313857340-my-fix-overheating-tractor-oilcooler1-jpg
 

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Mower manic

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when Dixie Chopper start putting oil coolers on their mower engines - Kohler denied its necessity
now - its on all their bigger engines (like one on pict)
location, restriction of air flow and clogging-in of this small radiators (oil, dust, mud and degrees magnet (collector) - could be questionable, but not it's usefulness

3107d1313857340-my-fix-overheating-tractor-oilcooler1-jpg

If you have ever heard the Kohler engine on a Dixie Chopper run you'll know right away it's tuned for performance. A lot louder than the same engine on your average mom and pop mower. This generates considerbly more heat that can shorten engine life.
Oh it's useful, makes a lot of sense, that and regular oil changes are a must for a suffcient service life.
 

ha4145

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Hi i have made many modificatons or "improvements" to my mtd mower including rear lights and ang an electrical tow bar for side lights on a trailer i was thinking about pressure gadges but wasent sure how could you send me the info on how to do it and some photos (If you can)
thanks
 

robert

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Somewhere I read that Kohler says if you are under 300*f you are doing real well, when I find the link I will post it.
I cannot see the operating oil temp of any air cooled mower much under 250* during the warm weather, or even cool weather-but I am not an expert either.

As for the case of a zt mower inherently operating at lower temp because the engine is not inclosed-not so sure, a tractor engine is sort of a ducted set up, air is channeled over, around the engine, this is inherently a more efficient design than non ducted cooling, but again an expert I am not. Plus, Briggs themselves show how hostile an environment the zt engine operates in, it does get really dirty really really fast-that alone would suggest that zt temps are certainly no lower than tractor temps, and in fact, should be significantly higher.

reddragon, you raise an excellent point about thermal soak into the oil if the measurements were taken after shutdown-immediately after shutting off the engine an immersion reading would be very accurate, a few minutes after though probably would significantly skew high the reading from operating.
Good catch/call
 

motoman

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Hi i have made many modificatons or "improvements" to my mtd mower including rear lights and ang an electrical tow bar for side lights on a trailer i was thinking about pressure gadges but wasent sure how could you send me the info on how to do it and some photos (If you can)
thanks
HA I'm not familiar with your make. The oil pressure is taken at or near the oill filter usually. If you read one of the installation tips above you will see I have had bad luck with so called "mechanical" type gauges which uses a small dia. tube of oil from engine to actuate the gauge indicatior. These are cheap to buy. The other type I'm familiar with is the electric . Look at pics on the "fix" and see a bulky gold colored can with one wire, the sender. These are harder to locate on little tractor engines,but better (no oil leaks). Both type senders usually need what we call 1/8 NPT (Tap) threaded port. Your tractor should have one (?Plugged) Go to motorcycle or car acces shop there.
 
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