Deciding between Ferris 700z 52" and Hustler Fastrak 54"

[djdicetn]

Just to give an update:

Briggs and Stratton (Ferris) has been dragging their feet on this, big time! The girl I originally spoke with first claimed to have not received my email, after repeated contacts from my end, she finally said she found my email in their spam folder (FYI, I submitted my message through the web contact form on the Ferris website, so she is telling me that the Briggs and Stratton email server is recognizing their own internal web forms as spam.) She then told me that a guy there had devised a "work around" and would be in touch with me. Several more days and no word, I called back again and again. I was then put in touch with one of the repair guys who said I could raise the deck myself and just realize that the markings are all off by 1/2 inch. Really, does that change the fact that the specs state this mower will cut from 1.75" to 5" in quarter inch increments? In real life it can cut from 1.75" to 4.5", or it can be "worked around" to cut 2.25" to 5" inches, but never 1.75" to 5", which is the marketing that I spent a lot of money on.

I also called my local dealer (who is the authorized repair center) to discuss the issue. (To give background, while shopping, I offered to pay him $300 more than the out of state price which included $200 in delivery, i.e. $500 more than the out of state price, to keep my business local, but he told me that even at that price he couldn't make money selling me that unit. I physically drove over to speak with him eye to eye and explain that I wasn't running a negotiation game on him, I appreciated his time, but I am a man with a family, and there is no way I could justify paying $700 more overall to simply give him the business. I did tell him that I would like to continue working with him after the purchase for local parts and service, and he said of course, we'll still be friends.) Well, when I called him to discuss the unit, I guess he finally realized that I wasn't BS-ing him in an attempt to get a better price, and I could tell in his voice that he was mad. He was very short on the phone, told me that he would work with me based on whatever Briggs and Stratton tells him to do, and he left me feeling pretty out in the cold with no real manufacturer or local dealer support at this point. (Mind you, the real purpose of my call was to get the price on a new set of blades, a tow kit, and possibly a bagger and/or mulching kit.)

If things continue down this path, I will probably start a brand new thread in the Ferris area, but ever the optimist, I will give a few more days to see if things turn around... I'm honestly getting so turned off by all of this that I may end up going through my credit card company and forcing a return on this...

Many would say that this is simply a technicality and not worth pursuing(actually my "first reaction"), but after the subsequent conversations in the thread I wholeheartedly agree with your stand on this. You have a legitimate complaint and I see both the responses from Ferris and the dealer as inappropriate in regard to "resolving your problem". I have been employed for over 40 years in a "service-oriented organization career" and understand fully the two basic rules of business:

1)The customer is always right.

2)When the customer is wrong.........refer to Rule#1.

I encourage you to continue pushing the envelope" on this and remember......."right has might"!!!!

As an aside, when I found out that Briggs & Stratton manufactured Ferris, Snapper and Simplicity lawn equipment I basically eliminated those brands from my search. This was due to a very bad taste in my mouth over a 24hp B & S Intek V-Twin engine on a 2006 Craftsman 54" YS4500 lawn tractor that had a major "assembly defect" that appeared just after the warranty expired. My previous lawn tractor(a 1993 Lawn Chief from True Value) had a 16hp Briggs Vanguard which was an extremely good engine(still running like day one when my son retired it last year....19 years old) and the 24hp B & S engine was one of the main reasons I went with the Craftsman(actually a Husqvarna manufactured machine). That disappointment was enough for me to be highly reluctant to purchase another "Briggs product". Another user on these forums had a similar experience with the 24hp B & S Intek, so it boiled down to B & S making a very bad decision to change from the Vanguard design to the Intek!! Keep us posted on how things go....a LOT of potential Ferris customers read these forums and it would behove Ferris to "make it right" to avoid this topic swaying them to another product.

 

[KennyV]

1)The customer is always right.

2)When the customer is wrong.........refer to Rule#1.

That is a most quoted WRONG statement... but then again it is Usually stated by someone that is acclimatized to Being Wrong and generally complaining.
"The customer is always right." IS statistically Impossible. Anyone that has such a notion is not connected to reality & likely has Never Owned a business. The concept that it is 'Okay' to patronize a potential customer, who is in fact wrong, in No way shows any credibility toward the particular business. If someone is so Desperate for consumer trade that they encourage a Wrong position just to secure a sale, That says negatively more about that particular business than anything else that could ever be said.
I have always had More respect for my employees than to subject them to that particular type of impossible reasoning.

this particular 'complaint' really should have a thread of it's own, that way it would not bog down this particular subject... Deciding between Ferris 700z 52" and Hustler Fastrak 54"...
Ether the indicator is showing inches, mm, reference numbers, alphabetic units or whatever to show relative deck height, Should have very little to do with important meaningful differences between the two OP's mowers. :smile:KennyV

 

[djdicetn]

That is a most quoted WRONG statement... but then again it is Usually stated by someone that is acclimatized to Being Wrong and generally complaining.
"The customer is always right." IS statistically Impossible. Anyone that has such a notion is not connected to reality & likely has Never Owned a business. The concept that it is 'Okay' to patronize a potential customer, who is in fact wrong, in No way shows any credibility toward the particular business. If someone is so Desperate for consumer trade that they encourage a Wrong position just to secure a sale, That says negatively more about that particular business than anything else that could ever be said.
I have always had More respect for my employees than to subject them to that particular type of impossible reasoning.

this particular 'complaint' really should have a thread of it's own, that way it would not bog down this particular subject... Deciding between Ferris 700z 52" and Hustler Fastrak 54"...
Ether the indicator is showing inches, mm, reference numbers, alphabetic units or whatever to show relative deck height, Should have very little to do with important meaningful differences between the two OP's mowers. :smile:KennyV

In Post#4, the OP(user Mowsley) basically satisfied the original subject line of this thread with his decision to purchase the Ferris over the Hustler so there is no bogging down in my opinion. User Floodwaker subsequently extended the subject of this thread specifically after also purchasing a Ferris to then discover that the specifications for that ZTR were not factual information. When it comes to a business that prides itself in customer satisfaction(as I have personally observed, very rare today), whether it be the manufacturer or the retail distribution dealer the object to address this inconsistency should not be "avoided" as in the case of Briggs & Stratton or "ignored" by the dealer who represents that product. I guess we will have to agree to disagree that either B & S needs to offer a viable solution to support how the product was marketed, or the dealer needs to give a complete refund to user Floodwaker for a product that purported to have a feature that it didn't. In either case, any company manufacturing or selling a product that does not follow those two business rules is in fact saying to the consumer "we don't care that you were mis-led by the information we provided you to base your decision to purchase our product on, you are stuck with it and don't bother us with your complaints". I too would encourage user Floodwaker to start a fresh thread with the subject line "Ferris Misleads Consumers About Their Products" in the Ferris forum and continue to let other forum users know whether the reputation of Ferris is questionable or not. My question to you is if you buy a car that purports to have "Drive" & "Reverse" only to discover after purchasing it that it will ONLY go forward would you "be right" to complain to the dealer or manufacturer for selling it under that premise? You don't have to respond, just answer that within your own consciense.

 

[KennyV]

..... if you buy a car that purports to have "Drive" & "Reverse" only to discover after purchasing it that it will ONLY go forward would you "be right" to complain to the dealer or manufacturer for selling it under that premise? You don't have to respond, just answer that within your own consciense.

If you are going to 'compare' a car not having forward or reverse to a mower's top setting being off 10 percent in the "transport" setting... I do see the problem in reasoning.
The lack of that top half inch may merit a comment somewhere... the Future value of This particular thread for the comparison of the 2 mentioned mowers 'may' be of some value to someone in the future...

To repeat a nonsense 'The customer is Always Right' statement was my real objection...

If there was a guarantee stating this particular model Ferris would Mow grass on a lawn to 5 inches, in the transport position Or you can get your money back... then go for the return & refund.
I have no idea what the actual verbiage might be... I myself am partial to Hustler, But that is not to say that Ferris is in any way lacking in the ability to build a quality machine.

Again my Only actual point was that in real life the Customer is (NOT) Always right... and anyone approaching a situation thinking that somehow being a 'customer' automatically makes you right, will "Always" be Wrong, about that assumption.
:smile:KennyV

 

[djdicetn]

If you are going to 'compare' a car not having forward or reverse to a mower's top setting being off 10 percent in the "transport" setting... I do see the problem in reasoning.
The lack of that top half inch may merit a comment somewhere... the Future value of This particular thread for the comparison of the 2 mentioned mowers 'may' be of some value to someone in the future...

To repeat a nonsense 'The customer is Always Right' statement was my real objection...

If there was a guarantee stating this particular model Ferris would Mow grass on a lawn to 5 inches, in the transport position Or you can get your money back... then go for the return & refund.
I have no idea what the actual verbiage might be... I myself am partial to Hustler, But that is not to say that Ferris is in any way lacking in the ability to build a quality machine.

Again my Only actual point was that in real life the Customer is (NOT) Always right... and anyone approaching a situation thinking that somehow being a 'customer' automatically makes you right, will "Always" be Wrong, about that assumption.
:smile:KennyV

Well, up to this point I have simply been taking user Floodwaker's information as facts(with the assumption that he had no reason to state other than facts). So to determine whether or not he actually has a valid complaint you and I can cease and desist with the controversy over my "customer is always right" statement and focus on the real issue at hand. So I have taken the time to go to the Ferris website to see what their product information for the 48" IS600Z actually states and I find the following:

MOWER DECK
iCD Cutting System with striping kit
on 48" model
10-gauge, fabricated deck on 44" model
Cut height: 1.75"- 5" adjusts in
1/4" increments
Features greaseable aluminum spindles

Now based upon that excerpt from their own website, I interpret the specifications to indicate that there indeed should be a "Cut height" setting of 5 inches.....NOT a "Transport height" of 5 inches. You can argue all you want with me, but user Floodwaker has every right to confront the manufacturer and/or dealer regarding some of the information(obviously an important influence on his decision) that he based his purchase on. Again, no matter how "we" feel about this, and in all fairness either Ferris(Briggs & Stratton) and/or their dealer network need to (1)apologize for the incorrect specs (2)offer a resolution acceptable to the consumer and (3)correct the inaccurate information on their marketing information. There is no debate as to whether that is the right or wrong thing to do, regardless of whether user Floodwaker informs other forum users here or on the Ferris forum. And IMHO, if I were shopping, considering the Ferris line of ZTR's and happened upon this thread I would find the postings by user Floodwalker beneficial in influencing my decision to buy a Ferris or not(if the cut height is wrong......what other spec(s) may also be inaccurate). Also he did ask the OP, who purchased the IS700Z whether he could actually mow at 5" or not and did not receive a reply back(that I can find). The IS700Z literature states the exact same spec as the IS500Z. Again, I reiterate that you and others may brush this off as a "minor technicality".......BUT it is not our money that was spent on a ZTR that did not conform to the manufacturer's stated performance characteristics. I have no more to add to this discussion unless it is a response to user Floodwaker, who I still encourage to "push the envelope" on this if it is important to him!!!!

 

[KennyV]

.... So to determine whether or not he actually has a valid complaint you and I can cease and desist with the controversy over my "customer is always right" statement and focus on the real issue at hand.

Oh Really...
My intent was to respond to the outrageous, but 'cutsie' notion that "customer is always right" statement. Least someone may actually believe that.

As to the cut settings:
If this is the Worst "defect" that can be found on that model... I'm going to have to suppose it's a great machine.
:smile:KennyV

 

[djdicetn]

Mowsley, this is a fantastic post. It hits on exactly the points that I am looking at between the Ferris and Hustler. I have narrowed my search between a 2012 Ferris 1500z for $6,000 out the door (otd), a 2013 Ferris 600z for $5,400 (otd), a 2013 Hustler Fastrak for $5,200 otd, or a 2012 Scag Freedom Z for $5,500 otd. All have 48" decks and Kawasaki FS engines, though the Hustler has about 3 more horses than the other machines. Unfortunately, none of the dealers I've been to have an area where I can engage the blades and see the quality of cut, which is of the highest level of importance to me. Close in importance is build quality/longevity combined with affordability of parts and ease of service when something inevitably goes wrong.

Mosley has done a great job of pointing out nearly all of the differences I have observed between the Ferris and Hustler along with some new ones. The dealer with the 2012 Ferris 1500z is telling me that $6,000 is dealer cost, and with this unit I will be getting dual drive motors, which none of the other machines have. The dealer described this a closer to a "true commercial" machine but admitted that these motors are more expensive to maintain and repair. Other than that, if going Ferris, I would lean towards the 2013 Ferris 600z because it is less money and newer, plus the 2012 has been left outside and is showing rust in areas including on the suspension. The 600z has a slightly upgraded hydro compared to the Huster and Scag but probably not enough that I would notice as a consumer. Scag has a reputation for fantastic cut quality, but this is on their higher grade velocity decks, which the Freedom Z does not have. The Ferris units both have their iCD cutting system with Marbain blades, but I have read a review online that the Huster deck tends to bog down and clog in thick grass. I have not seen any good comparison reviews online about the cut quality of these units, so this has been my biggest disadvantage in my shopping. I did really like the Ferris suspension, but I know for $200 I can add a caster wheel shock absorber to the Hustler. The Scag, I believe, does not offer anything to help the suspension, but they do offer a seat upgrade for about $400.

Mosley, I hope you don't mind my post. I am not trying to hijack your thread. Your post was just so good that it encouraged me to join this forum, as it hit on exactly the points that I am seeing between the Huster Fastrak and the Ferris 600z.

Anyone in the forum with some real world experience cutting with any of these units? I'd really appreciate some useful feedback. Thanks!

You know, I never intervened or second guessed your comparison choices(all well built machines...even the Ferris), but based upon the unsatisfactory outcome regarding your desired cutting height I wish I had recommended that you take a look at the Gravely Pro Turn 48. It's regular MSRP is $6,699(a little pricier than some of the others, but worth every penny), is on sale right now for $5,999 and with the right Gravely dealer you may have gotten one out-the-door for fairly close to the $5,400 you paid for the Ferris. The Pro Turn has the FS691 Kawa, but only has the ZT-3200 HydroGear trannies(my Pro Turn 100XDZ has the ZT-3400's but the XDZ is even pricier and as you stated, this is for your personal use and the ZT-3200 would be fine...the Pro Turn is now regarded as Gravely's entry-level commercial ZTR). The Pro Turn has a 1" to 5" cut height(17 positions in 1/4" increments) and I can "guarantee you" that it would cut at 5"!!! I sincerely hope that Briggs comes up with a viable resolution to your complaint, but should the only agreeable resolution be returning the IS500Z for a refund you may want to throw Gravely's in the mix when you resume shopping for another ZTR. I sure am happy with mine.

 

[Floodwaker]

Guys. I didn't realize that all this conversation had taken place since my last post. For some reason, I did not get emailed updates to the thread.

As I said earlier, I'm happy to make this a new thread if Ferris doesn't make good, but I simply entered into this thread to get the opinion of the OP who bought a Ferris while comparing similar mowers that I was considering. As far as the semantics of the phrase "the customer is always right", I'm not real concerned. In this case, I happen to be the customer, and I am confident that I am right. To one user of the mower, cut height may seem like an extremely unimportant issue. For me, it is the entire reason I upgraded from a $1,700 mower that cut 3.5". I am not a professional, so the only reason I bought a commercial mower was to achieve a higher cut. $5,400 is a ton of money to me, and since I don't cut lawns for a living, I don't recoup any of that cost. With that said, anything I buy from a manufacturer ought to do exactly what they say it does, and I make no apologies for expecting this.

I have been updating this thread only because I was asked to do so. If B&S ended up trying to burn me on this, I would certainly start a new thread. However, we have been slowly getting to a solution that should get me satisfied. I had my unit picked up on Friday by a dealer who is 40 miles away from me. I had to go this far because the local dealer ended up refusing to do the warranty work for B&S, which shocked me, but so be it. B&S is going to pay to have the deck raised by 1/2", so the markings will be off, and the lowest setting will now be over 2", but this is better (for my particular needs) than nothing. I'm still unsure whether B&S will pay for everything, as the guy seemed to cop out a little on covering the pickup and delivery fees, but I'm hoping he will so the right thing and pay the extra $35 since it was his local dealer that declined to do the work. It's not really my fault that he requires the work be done by his dealers, as I told him I have a repair guy 5 miles away who does good work and can be trusted.

I will post a final update to keep those who are interested informed, but I do want to repeat this: Ferris is definitely a good quality mower. I have made no representation otherwise. I always wonder why people get bent out of shape over people posting real world issues. It has never been my intent to attack Ferris or B&S. I chose them over several high quality competitors (including Gravely), but I had faith in their quality, I liked their suspension, and I ultimately went with them because of their max cut height, which made them the best dollar for dollar deal for me personally. I'm sure I'm in the 1% of people who decided their purchase decision on these final factors, but that doesn't make my concern any less valid than any other forum member. I'm not thrilled with the solution of losing my bottom cut height, but to me, it is better to be able to pre-cut tall grass to 5". I will say that I am disappointed that B&S has been aware of the incorrect specs for a month now and still hasn't updated the web specs, but I guess they are counting on the fact that I am only 1 person, and others will not have the same issue. I'm sure some would say I'm wrong, but I expect more, particularly from an American company. I will now step down from my soap box. Thanks.

 

[djdicetn]

Guys. I didn't realize that all this conversation had taken place since my last post. For some reason, I did not get emailed updates to the thread.

As I said earlier, I'm happy to make this a new thread if Ferris doesn't make good, but I simply entered into this thread to get the opinion of the OP who bought a Ferris while comparing similar mowers that I was considering. As far as the semantics of the phrase "the customer is always right", I'm not real concerned. In this case, I happen to be the customer, and I am confident that I am right. To one user of the mower, cut height may seem like an extremely unimportant issue. For me, it is the entire reason I upgraded from a $1,700 mower that cut 3.5". I am not a professional, so the only reason I bought a commercial mower was to achieve a higher cut. $5,400 is a ton of money to me, and since I don't cut lawns for a living, I don't recoup any of that cost. With that said, anything I buy from a manufacturer ought to do exactly what they say it does, and I make no apologies for expecting this.

I have been updating this thread only because I was asked to do so. If B&S ended up trying to burn me on this, I would certainly start a new thread. However, we have been slowly getting to a solution that should get me satisfied. I had my unit picked up on Friday by a dealer who is 40 miles away from me. I had to go this far because the local dealer ended up refusing to do the warranty work for B&S, which shocked me, but so be it. B&S is going to pay to have the deck raised by 1/2", so the markings will be off, and the lowest setting will now be over 2", but this is better (for my particular needs) than nothing. I'm still unsure whether B&S will pay for everything, as the guy seemed to cop out a little on covering the pickup and delivery fees, but I'm hoping he will so the right thing and pay the extra $35 since it was his local dealer that declined to do the work. It's not really my fault that he requires the work be done by his dealers, as I told him I have a repair guy 5 miles away who does good work and can be trusted.

I will post a final update to keep those who are interested informed, but I do want to repeat this: Ferris is definitely a good quality mower. I have made no representation otherwise. I always wonder why people get bent out of shape over people posting real world issues. It has never been my intent to attack Ferris or B&S. I chose them over several high quality competitors (including Gravely), but I had faith in their quality, I liked their suspension, and I ultimately went with them because of their max cut height, which made them the best dollar for dollar deal for me personally. I'm sure I'm in the 1% of people who decided their purchase decision on these final factors, but that doesn't make my concern any less valid than any other forum member. I'm not thrilled with the solution of losing my bottom cut height, but to me, it is better to be able to pre-cut tall grass to 5". I will say that I am disappointed that B&S has been aware of the incorrect specs for a month now and still hasn't updated the web specs, but I guess they are counting on the fact that I am only 1 person, and others will not have the same issue. I'm sure some would say I'm wrong, but I expect more, particularly from an American company. I will now step down from my soap box. Thanks.

Thanks for the update...and I'm glad to hear that Ferris/Briggs is working with you to bring your purchase to your satisfaction!!!!!! Don't worry about the back-and-forth between user KennyV & myself(this is not the first time we have not seen eye-to-eye on something and it usually leads to a pi__ing match:0)
I still contend that you were right to demand what you have based upon the misleading specifications, and obviously at least Ferris/Briggs agrees with that:0)
Please let us know how it all works out(here or in another post). Again, I will make the statement(right has might!!!:0)

 

[Floodwaker]

djdicetn, thank you.

Update: The mower has been returned. I drove it to verify that the left hydraulic is functioning correctly, and it is. In fact, it handles much, much better now, as you would expect. I must assume, for now, that the deck has been adjusted properly. I will end up measuring it, but I'm not in a rush as I can't cut for a while until my new seed has fully established.

Murphy's Law though: The three rear protective bars were damaged while it was away. I spoke to the mechanic, and he suspects that the guys who delivered the mower back to me drove another mower into the back of it when loading the trailer. I told him that I understand that things happen (though it sucks). I explained to him that the damage was deep enough that it was scraped to bare metal, and he agreed at my request to send me some touch up paint to at least protect against rust. At least Ferris had the foresight to install the protective bars to begin with! If the engine had been exposed like I have seen on several homeowner grade models, it would have most certainly caused real damage to the engine.

I am going to assume that there will be no issue with the deck height adjustment. The only other issue hanging out there is the bill. I bought a spare set of blades and a hitch kit from the dealer, and he will be mailing me the invoice. Only then will I know if Ferris/Briggs agreed to pay the full pick-up and delivery fee. Even if they don't, after the delivery damage, the dealer will likely just write it off or should at the very least.

To close, I'd like to restate that the Ferris IS 600Z appears to be a well made mower, which is the reason I purchased it. Obviously, I have issue with Briggs and Stratton's marketing department, as I just checked online, and they still have not corrected the specs. (I do understand not going through the expense and headache of correcting thousands of catalogs that are already in distribution, but how about making one simple correction on your website?! It only seems right seeing as you've now known about this since August 26!) I also have less than full confidence in the dealer network based on my experiences thus far, but I believe I will be in decent hands with the dealer 40 miles away (so long as I install a bumper on this thing next time.) :laughing: The mower blades and other parts and accessories seem pretty expensive and can only be bought through dealers, but that is a business model that I knew about going into the purchase. I expect that I will be very happy in the long run with my mower. I am excited to finally be able to cut higher that 3.5" and will be extremely excited next summer to be able to keep my lawn from burning out once temperatures get above 90 degrees.

Thanks again to everybody for your input.