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Toro Timecutter SS 4235 - Starter engages but won't turn engine

#1

C

CASchryver

A few months ago, I picked up a used Timecutter. The battery was dead, but after jump-starting the mower and running it for a while, it's started strong ever since. I've been mowing with it for about three months without any problems. About a week ago I turned it off and was away for a few minutes after which when I tried to start it up again it wouldn't. The starter sounds strong, but the engine itself won't even turn. Of course, I don't try for more than a few seconds at a time so as not to fry my starter. Seemingly at random, it suddenly turned the engine and it started right up. Ran fine for the rest of the day. It has now happened two more times and as I type, it is sitting in my yard with a tarp over it to keep it out of the rain. Due to weather, I haven't been able to step through as many troubleshooting steps as I'd like, but I was able to shoot a small video so you could hear it.


Oil level is good, though it could use a change. I think my power is good - I've added in my jump box with no discernible sound difference with or without it. This model will allow me to start it with no one sitting in the seat. It won't let you start it if the motion control levers aren't in the "park" position - you can hear the "safety" engage/disengage when they are moved, so I don't think that is the issue.

Appreciate any suggestions.


#2

M

mechanic mark

Solenoid on starter is going bad.


#3

P

packardv8

Solenoid on starter is going bad
Click to expand...
Mark is probably correct.

However, the Toro is typical of today's mowers with electrical connections running through many different lawyer switches to make it start. Before replacing the solenoid, find every switch and plug connector. Pull them, spray with electric contact cleaner and reinstall. Fixed many similar problems this way.

On a Cub Cadet the ultimate solution was to completely rewire the machine with an aftermarket starter and PTO switch and delete everything else. Otherwise, it was always a crapshoot whether it would start or not, run or not, PTO or not.

jack vines


#4

C

CASchryver

I'm actually leaning toward the starter. I turned the key so I heard what you can hear in the video and very lightly tapped on the starter with a rubber mallet and the engine started to spin. Another try or two and it actually fired up. Does that sound like the starter or more of an issue where the engine isn't spinning as freely as it should? The oil level is good.


#5

B

bertsmobile1

Sounds like the starter.
Pull it off and take it to an old fashioned auto electrician.
you know the ones with people wearing overalls and an office full of desks covered with notes, not one with a big showroom full of radios, cd's & amplifiers.
Get them to test it.
Chamces it will just be a clean or new brushes.
Wost come to worst they usually can do you a good replacement that will actually last longer then the warrantee


#6

P

packardv8

Just had a similar problem on my Toro today. Solenoid clicked and engaged, but the starter didn't turn. I fiddled with the connector and bingo! it started. Typical wiring problem.

jack vines


#7

cpurvis

cpurvis

Wiring/battery problems are 'typical' but they're not the only thing that can cause the starter to engage but fail to crank the engine.

If I hadn't seen this for myself, I wouldn't believe it either.

A friend with a Murray tractor had the same problem. He tried all the electrical fixes, which didn't work. He called me and said he'd found something on the internet that said the valves out of adjustment could cause this and asked me to help him adjust the valves. I did, mainly just to humor and prove to him that valve adjustment had nothing to do with this kind of problem. We set the valves, and it started right up.

Apparently the compression release is very sensitive to valve adjustment. IIRC, his engine was a Tecumseh.

Something to consider. It costs nothing to make sure the valves are set correctly.


#8

C

CASchryver

Sounds feasible to me, but how the heck do I do that?


#9

cpurvis

cpurvis

CASchryver said:
Sounds feasible to me, but how the heck do I do that?
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume that means you've never adjusted valves before. If that's the case, you need to get someone with experience to help you. There's more to it than can be conveyed with written words, just like Master Chef meals can't be reduced to recipes.

You can check my other posts to see a partial explanation how to set valves but there is more to it than what I wrote in that post.


#10

Carscw

Carscw

There are plenty of videos on line.


#11

B

bertsmobile1

remove the spark plug & try to crank the engine
turns without plug but won't turn with plug in = valves

won't turn over without plug by either starter or hand = engine problem
can be internal , piston seizure , bearing seizure, bent valve etc, etc
or external, nut , bolt small bit of magnetic gravel stuck in alternator.


#12

P

packardv8

cpurvis said:
Wiring/battery problems are 'typical' but they're not the only thing that can cause the starter to engage but fail to crank the engine.

If I hadn't seen this for myself, I wouldn't believe it either.

A friend with a Murray tractor had the same problem. He tried all the electrical fixes, which didn't work. He called me and said he'd found something on the internet that said the valves out of adjustment could cause this and asked me to help him adjust the valves. I did, mainly just to humor and prove to him that valve adjustment had nothing to do with this kind of problem. We set the valves, and it started right up.

Apparently the compression release is very sensitive to valve adjustment. IIRC, his engine was a Tecumseh.

Something to consider. It costs nothing to make sure the valves are set correctly.
Click to expand...

Do current generation twin cylinder Kohler engines such as used on this Toro, even have compression releases? I associate them with big, old single cylinders.

jack vines


#13

A

ALBrock

CASchryver said:
A few months ago, I picked up a used Timecutter. The battery was dead, but after jump-starting the mower and running it for a while, it's started strong ever since. I've been mowing with it for about three months without any problems. About a week ago I turned it off and was away for a few minutes after which when I tried to start it up again it wouldn't. The starter sounds strong, but the engine itself won't even turn. Of course, I don't try for more than a few seconds at a time so as not to fry my starter. Seemingly at random, it suddenly turned the engine and it started right up. Ran fine for the rest of the day. It has now happened two more times and as I type, it is sitting in my yard with a tarp over it to keep it out of the rain. Due to weather, I haven't been able to step through as many troubleshooting steps as I'd like, but I was able to shoot a small video so you could hear it.


Oil level is good, though it could use a change. I think my power is good - I've added in my jump box with no discernible sound difference with or without it. This model will allow me to start it with no one sitting in the seat. It won't let you start it if the motion control levers aren't in the "park" position - you can hear the "safety" engage/disengage when they are moved, so I don't think that is the issue.

Appreciate any suggestions.
Click to expand...


#14

A

ALBrock

I have a 2011 SS4235 and had basically the same problem. I would turn the key to START and the starter would spin but the motor was not turning. Being an old shade tree mechanic I had seen similar problems with older cars. Usually you could tap on the starter and the motor would start - the problem was usually that the starter bendix gear was not spinning out and engaging the motor flywheel gear. I tried that but no luck, so I had to get more inventive. First I cut out the plastic cover over the motor so I could insert a socket to see if the motor turned - it turned fairly easily, so that wasn't it. Then I removed the starter from the motor (it sounds and looks a lot more difficult than it actually is). Make sure to disconnect the negative lead from the battery, then remove the two bolts holding the starter. When you get the starter off (actually not off, but just pulled out of the motor), you can check the bendix gear to make sure the gear is not worn, if it spins freely, and if it freely moves away from the main starter assembly when pulled up, as if spinning out. If the gears are worn you would normally hear a grinding noise as it tried to engage with the flywheel: in this case you'll need a new starter. In my case the bendix gear didn't move freely. I sprayed it with a rust removal product, worked it a few times, and then let it set a few hours. Went back and the gear now moved fairly easily, so I rigged a test cable to provide ground to the starter. When I turned the key the starter jumped (as expected) and I could see the bendix gear spinning out. Sprayed it a little more, manually worked the gear a few more times to see if there was more binding (there had been corrosion on the parts where the bendix gear rested on the starter shaft. So I put it back together and it worked as designed. (Said a prayer of thanks to GOD for working through me and fixing the problem - not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last.) Anyway, it has been starting ever since.
Hope this helps anyone who is experiencing the same problem.


#15

P

packardv8

Before getting in to the valves, clean all the ground connections.

jack vines


#16

H

hlw49

packardv8 said:
Before getting in to the valves, clean all the ground connections.

jack vines
Click to expand...
You know it is the engine with problem if you would post the engine model no. and spec that would help. Since you did show a picture of the mower that showed the engine I can see it is a Kawasaki and that engine has an inertia starter drive. It is the drive that is slipping. It is the rubber seal as they call it that drives the gear and it has gotten dry and hard and will not grip the nut under it crazy names for the parts. Look up the engine and get the parts for the drive. The starter is good just need the drive.


#17

R

Rivets

The Toro model 74633 Timecutter uses a Kohler engine, not Kawasaki, but the solution is the same. Replace the bendix drive.


#18

H

hlw49

Rivets said:
The Toro model 74633 Timecutter uses a Kohler engine, not Kawasaki, but the solution is the same. Replace the bendix drive.
Click to expand...

Toro Timecutter SS 4235 - Starter engages but won't turn engine. Did I miss something here. I Believe that mower has a Kawasaki.​



#19

R

Rivets

Here’s where I got my info. https://www.toro.com/en-GB/parts/partdetails/?id=40406


#20

H

hlw49

Rivets said:
Here’s where I got my info. https://www.toro.com/en-GB/parts/partdetails/?id=40406
Click to expand...
Never seen a Kohler with the blower housing like the one in the video had.


#21

R

Rivets

The engine in the video was posted in 2015, i used the info which was posted Saturday. Another reason why I hate it when people hyjack threads and on top of that don’t post model and serial numbers. We both could be right and we both could be wrong.


#22

H

hlw49

Rivets said:
The engine in the video was posted in 2015, i used the info which was posted Saturday. Another reason why I hate it when people hyjack threads and on top of that don’t post model and serial numbers. We both could be right and we both could be wrong.
Click to expand...
True


#23

H

hlw49

Rivets said:
The engine in the video was posted in 2015, i used the info which was posted Saturday. Another reason why I hate it when people hyjack threads and on top of that don’t post model and serial numbers. We both could be right and we both could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Well the model no. he posted I looked up and it showed a Kawasaki engine.


#24

P

packardv8

Old thread, but if anyone comes looking, I just found a like-new starter off a Kohler engine on a 4235. PM me if it would help you.

jack vines


#25

C

calvinc

CASchryver said:
A few months ago, I picked up a used Timecutter. The battery was dead, but after jump-starting the mower and running it for a while, it's started strong ever since. I've been mowing with it for about three months without any problems. About a week ago I turned it off and was away for a few minutes after which when I tried to start it up again it wouldn't. The starter sounds strong, but the engine itself won't even turn. Of course, I don't try for more than a few seconds at a time so as not to fry my starter. Seemingly at random, it suddenly turned the engine and it started right up. Ran fine for the rest of the day. It has now happened two more times and as I type, it is sitting in my yard with a tarp over it to keep it out of the rain. Due to weather, I haven't been able to step through as many troubleshooting steps as I'd like, but I was able to shoot a small video so you could hear it.


Oil level is good, though it could use a change. I think my power is good - I've added in my jump box with no discernible sound difference with or without it. This model will allow me to start it with no one sitting in the seat. It won't let you start it if the motion control levers aren't in the "park" position - you can hear the "safety" engage/disengage when they are moved, so I don't think that is the issue.

Appreciate any suggestions.
Click to expand...


#26

C

calvinc

Did you find a fix to the SS4235 Toro whirring sound video but no crank video, I am having exactly same problem, I do know that my solenoid is not good, but I was able to start with screw driver jumping starter, is it possible I affected the starter by jumping the solenoid?


#27

P

packardv8

calvinc said:
Did you find a fix to the SS4235 Toro whirring sound video but no crank video, I am having exactly same problem, I do know that my solenoid is not good, but I was able to start with screw driver jumping starter, is it possible I affected the starter by jumping the solenoid?
Click to expand...
Probably not. The switch, wiring connectors, battery cables and the starter are all weak points on the Toro.

jack vines


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