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Thought for discussion if anybody is interested
#1
jekjr
jekjr
I once worked for a man that was one of the top 100 wealthiest people in the US. One day we listening to him talk concerning some financial things in the factory where we worked for him. His parents came to the US right after WWII as immigrants and built much wealth in industry. He made a statement that I will never forget. He said that his father who had built much of the businesses had always said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch." In other words many times he would buy what many people said were cheap off brand machines that would get by but not last as long many times as the expensive ones.
That carries over to our businesses like cutting grass. We are taught to always by the best name brands because they are quality...... The idea from his perspective would be buy as cheap as possible to get the job done but it might not have the longevity...... Has anybody else ever heard of this type discussion?
That thought worked for them, they became very successful.
That carries over to our businesses like cutting grass. We are taught to always by the best name brands because they are quality...... The idea from his perspective would be buy as cheap as possible to get the job done but it might not have the longevity...... Has anybody else ever heard of this type discussion?
That thought worked for them, they became very successful.
#2
lawn mower fanatic
lawn mower fanatic
That makes some sense. In most cases I would rather buy the thing that will last the longest, but maybe sometimes it would be better to buy cheap things. Like for example say you want to buy a mower and can't decide between a $1,000 mower and a $200 mower. Say you don't have to really make many repairs, it just bites the dust one day, and you go through this process 3 times throughout your career, you would save some money since you didn't buy the $1,000 mower that would last you the whole time. But we don't live in a perfect world, so a mower usually doesn't just bite the dust and you have to replace it. Usually things start to break, you fix them, another thing breaks, you fix that, then you might need a new mower. But by the time you get your repair bills it might be the same cost as buying a mower that will last longer. So if I can I will usually buy something that will last a long time unless I won't be using it much at all.
#3
jekjr
It is something that I have turned over in my mind many times as well. Some times you wonder if you fork out the big bucks on something that is going to run a lot of years if you are really coming out rather than buying something that will only last a few years but is a fraction of the price. I had always before hearing that one been taught that the high middle of the price range was usually the best deal. I had always been taught that it would probably be of the same quality of the highest priced but not have a few of the bells and whistles that the more expensive one had which usually would cause problems quicker anyway....... It does make for interesting thought when buying things.
jekjr
That makes some sense. In most cases I would rather buy the thing that will last the longest, but maybe sometimes it would be better to buy cheap things. Like for example say you want to buy a mower and can't decide between a $1,000 mower and a $200 mower. Say you don't have to really make many repairs, it just bites the dust one day, and you go through this process 3 times throughout your career, you would save some money since you didn't buy the $1,000 mower that would last you the whole time. But we don't live in a perfect world, so a mower usually doesn't just bite the dust and you have to replace it. Usually things start to break, you fix them, another thing breaks, you fix that, then you might need a new mower. But by the time you get your repair bills it might be the same cost as buying a mower that will last longer. So if I can I will usually buy something that will last a long time unless I won't be using it much at all.
It is something that I have turned over in my mind many times as well. Some times you wonder if you fork out the big bucks on something that is going to run a lot of years if you are really coming out rather than buying something that will only last a few years but is a fraction of the price. I had always before hearing that one been taught that the high middle of the price range was usually the best deal. I had always been taught that it would probably be of the same quality of the highest priced but not have a few of the bells and whistles that the more expensive one had which usually would cause problems quicker anyway....... It does make for interesting thought when buying things.
#4
Ric
His father said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch" and yes that maybe true if your in the market to sell but I don't believe it would be the same when it comes to having dependable and reliable equipment to work with day in day out.
With that said you have to understand that just because someone buys the best equipment for lawn care that he can doesn't mean they're any guarantees it will last forever.
To be successful in lawn care you need two things, A good work ethic one and Good equipment, but most importantly equipment you believe in, whether it's Stihl, Homelite or anything in between it doesn't matter as long as it works for you, does the job and your happy, you're successful.
Ric
I once worked for a man that was one of the top 100 wealthiest people in the US. One day we listening to him talk concerning some financial things in the factory where we worked for him. His parents came to the US right after WWII as immigrants and built much wealth in industry. He made a statement that I will never forget. He said that his father who had built much of the businesses had always said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch." In other words many times he would buy what many people said were cheap off brand machines that would get by but not last as long many times as the expensive ones.
That carries over to our businesses like cutting grass. We are taught to always by the best name brands because they are quality...... The idea from his perspective would be buy as cheap as possible to get the job done but it might not have the longevity...... Has anybody else ever heard of this type discussion?
That thought worked for them, they became very successful.
His father said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch" and yes that maybe true if your in the market to sell but I don't believe it would be the same when it comes to having dependable and reliable equipment to work with day in day out.
With that said you have to understand that just because someone buys the best equipment for lawn care that he can doesn't mean they're any guarantees it will last forever.
To be successful in lawn care you need two things, A good work ethic one and Good equipment, but most importantly equipment you believe in, whether it's Stihl, Homelite or anything in between it doesn't matter as long as it works for you, does the job and your happy, you're successful.
#5
MowerMike
MowerMike
There is something called the point of diminishing returns, where additional cost buys you very little in added quality. There is also a lower bound point where equipment is totally unreliable junk that is worthless for use in a business. For example, it is pretty hard to find a decent gas powered walk behind lawn mower for under $200, but for $400 you can get something decent that will be durable and reliable. If you pay $800 for a basic mower it won't be twice as good as a $400 mower.
#6
jekjr
Ric I totally agree with you about the work ethic and good equipment. I just thought it was an interesting point of view from a person who made hundreds of millions of dollars and thought that it would be interesting to bring into a discussion.
As I have said on here numerous times in the short time I have been on this board, which I thoroughly enjoy so far anyway, I started up in August from scratch and therefore I had to make the decisions as to what to buy and how much money to spend...... It is interesting to see the different opinions.
jekjr
His father said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch" and yes that maybe true if your in the market to sell but I don't believe it would be the same when it comes to having dependable and reliable equipment to work with day in day out.
With that said you have to understand that just because someone buys the best equipment for lawn care that he can doesn't mean they're any guarantees it will last forever.
To be successful in lawn care you need two things, A good work ethic one and Good equipment, but most importantly equipment you believe in, whether it's Stihl, Homelite or anything in between it doesn't matter as long as it works for you, does the job and your happy, you're successful.
Ric I totally agree with you about the work ethic and good equipment. I just thought it was an interesting point of view from a person who made hundreds of millions of dollars and thought that it would be interesting to bring into a discussion.
As I have said on here numerous times in the short time I have been on this board, which I thoroughly enjoy so far anyway, I started up in August from scratch and therefore I had to make the decisions as to what to buy and how much money to spend...... It is interesting to see the different opinions.
#7
jekjr
I agree with you on that point as well MowerMike. That is a very valid point.
jekjr
There is something called the point of diminishing returns, where additional cost buys you very little in added quality. There is also a lower bound point where equipment is totally unreliable junk that is worthless for use in a business. For example, it is pretty hard to find a decent gas powered walk behind lawn mower for under $200, but for $400 you can get something decent that will be durable and reliable. If you pay $800 for a basic mower it won't be twice as good as a $400 mower.
I agree with you on that point as well MowerMike. That is a very valid point.
#8
066
066
I know of a few operators who have bought expensive lawnmowers but have been quite rough in the way they use them thinking that if it cost so much - it will be able to last nomatter what, after a few times in my shop they soon realise that if they slow down & take it easy then repair costs are lower.
Also there are the poerators who buy the cheapest trimmer for contracting & use it with care - the machine is hardly ever in the shop & they think it's the best machine ever built.
Also there are the poerators who buy the cheapest trimmer for contracting & use it with care - the machine is hardly ever in the shop & they think it's the best machine ever built.
#9
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah, that's a good point.
lawn mower fanatic
I had always before hearing that one been taught that the high middle of the price range was usually the best deal. I had always been taught that it would probably be of the same quality of the highest priced but not have a few of the bells and whistles that the more expensive one had which usually would cause problems quicker anyway.......
Yeah, that's a good point.
#10
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah, read this thread. It proves that you can buy a top-of-the-line mower (like this Walker), and it might not last, for one reason or another. Before this I had never heard of people who didn't like Walkers: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/walker-forum/13257-mtefi26-snowblower-mower-blower-problems.html. :confused2:
lawn mower fanatic
I know of a few operators who have bought expensive lawnmowers but have been quite rough in the way they use them thinking that if it cost so much
Yeah, read this thread. It proves that you can buy a top-of-the-line mower (like this Walker), and it might not last, for one reason or another. Before this I had never heard of people who didn't like Walkers: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/walker-forum/13257-mtefi26-snowblower-mower-blower-problems.html. :confused2:
#11
jekjr
Now that makes perfect sense as well. I see a lot of people on different places that leave reviews on equipment telling how big of a piece of junk it is and the next person down will leave a review telling how good it is. Even the lower end equipment many times will do a good job if it is taken care of and not abused while the best most expensive equipment will die on you if misused.
jekjr
I know of a few operators who have bought expensive lawnmowers but have been quite rough in the way they use them thinking that if it cost so much - it will be able to last nomatter what, after a few times in my shop they soon realise that if they slow down & take it easy then repair costs are lower.
Also there are the poerators who buy the cheapest trimmer for contracting & use it with care - the machine is hardly ever in the shop & they think it's the best machine ever built.
Now that makes perfect sense as well. I see a lot of people on different places that leave reviews on equipment telling how big of a piece of junk it is and the next person down will leave a review telling how good it is. Even the lower end equipment many times will do a good job if it is taken care of and not abused while the best most expensive equipment will die on you if misused.
#12
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
Its all down to brand advertising.
People think because its got a certain name then all of it must be good.
Each manufacturer have good and bad product to different users.
Usually you can find certain product at good prices that can do the job.
I sell a certain mower which is a good push and self propelled model but the variable speed model is a letdown.
People think because its got a certain name then all of it must be good.
Each manufacturer have good and bad product to different users.
Usually you can find certain product at good prices that can do the job.
I sell a certain mower which is a good push and self propelled model but the variable speed model is a letdown.
#13
Ric
The problem with reviews is that most are based on the person expectations of the equipment. 90% of the people don't know if a piece of equipment is good or bad. Suppose you have a review done by some who just bought a Homelite Trimmer and his review reads there the greatest trimmer ever and he highly recommends this trimmer.
The first thing I'd like to ask the guy is have you ever run a Stihl or an Echo and chances are great that he hasn't so how can he say or give a review on a piece of equipment when he has never run anything to compare it to. Reviews especially public reviews are worthless.:thumbdown:
Ric
Now that makes perfect sense as well. I see a lot of people on different places that leave reviews on equipment telling how big of a piece of junk it is and the next person down will leave a review telling how good it is. Even the lower end equipment many times will do a good job if it is taken care of and not abused while the best most expensive equipment will die on you if misused.
The problem with reviews is that most are based on the person expectations of the equipment. 90% of the people don't know if a piece of equipment is good or bad. Suppose you have a review done by some who just bought a Homelite Trimmer and his review reads there the greatest trimmer ever and he highly recommends this trimmer.
The first thing I'd like to ask the guy is have you ever run a Stihl or an Echo and chances are great that he hasn't so how can he say or give a review on a piece of equipment when he has never run anything to compare it to. Reviews especially public reviews are worthless.:thumbdown:
#14
midnite rider
midnite rider
Anoher wise saying that has not been mentioned is time is money. If you are using unreliable equipment that breaks down alot you are not making money in idle time especially when you are paying employees sitting idle due to it. Also cost of repair has to be factored in. Some people will spend a dollar to save a dime if you know what I mean. You have to balance out all these factors.
#15
lawn mower fanatic
Yes, I agree with all 3 of these posts.
lawn mower fanatic
Its all down to brand advertising.
People think because its got a certain name then all of it must be good.
Each manufacturer have good and bad product to different users.
Usually you can find certain product at good prices that can do the job.
I sell a certain mower which is a good push and self propelled model but the variable speed model is a letdown.
The problem with reviews is that most are based on the person expectations of the equipment. 90% of the people don't know if a piece of equipment is good or bad. Suppose you have a review done by some who just bought a Homelite Trimmer and his review reads there the greatest trimmer ever and he highly recommends this trimmer.
The first thing I'd like to ask the guy is have you ever run a Stihl or an Echo and chances are great that he hasn't so how can he say or give a review on a piece of equipment when he has never run anything to compare it to. Reviews especially public reviews are worthless.:thumbdown:
Anoher wise saying that has not been mentioned is time is money. If you are using unreliable equipment that breaks down alot you are not making money in idle time especially when you are paying employees sitting idle due to it. Also cost of repair has to be factored in. Some people will spend a dollar to save a dime if you know what I mean. You have to balance out all these factors.
Yes, I agree with all 3 of these posts.
#16
pugaltitude
I think what you have to do with reviews is read 10-20 to make a comparison from different users.
Also listen to what a couple of dealers have to say. Ok some dealers only want to sell you whats in their showroom but some will sell whats good for the conditions.
pugaltitude
The problem with reviews is that most are based on the person expectations of the equipment. 90% of the people don't know if a piece of equipment is good or bad. Suppose you have a review done by some who just bought a Homelite Trimmer and his review reads there the greatest trimmer ever and he highly recommends this trimmer.
The first thing I'd like to ask the guy is have you ever run a Stihl or an Echo and chances are great that he hasn't so how can he say or give a review on a piece of equipment when he has never run anything to compare it to. Reviews especially public reviews are worthless.:thumbdown:
I think what you have to do with reviews is read 10-20 to make a comparison from different users.
Also listen to what a couple of dealers have to say. Ok some dealers only want to sell you whats in their showroom but some will sell whats good for the conditions.
#17
jekjr
Also many times you don't have as many people give a good review but you have many that have a bad experience that are frustrated and want to vent and that is a place to vent. Also many times the person venting will be a first time user that is clueless. Also it is like a review I read on a chainsaw. Think it was a Husky. I would be willing to bet that the chain was on it backwards and he was ranting about it not cutting.........
jekjr
I think what you have to do with reviews is read 10-20 to make a comparison from different users.
Also listen to what a couple of dealers have to say. Ok some dealers only want to sell you whats in their showroom but some will sell whats good for the conditions.
Also many times you don't have as many people give a good review but you have many that have a bad experience that are frustrated and want to vent and that is a place to vent. Also many times the person venting will be a first time user that is clueless. Also it is like a review I read on a chainsaw. Think it was a Husky. I would be willing to bet that the chain was on it backwards and he was ranting about it not cutting.........
#18
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah that's a good point you make (about people venting). I have been happy with all the equipment I have purchased but don't put any positive reviews anywhere (other than here). But someone who is angry might put a review on a lot of sites.
lawn mower fanatic
Also many times you don't have as many people give a good review but you have many that have a bad experience that are frustrated and want to vent and that is a place to vent. Also many times the person venting will be a first time user that is clueless. Also it is like a review I read on a chainsaw. Think it was a Husky. I would be willing to bet that the chain was on it backwards and he was ranting about it not cutting.........
Yeah that's a good point you make (about people venting). I have been happy with all the equipment I have purchased but don't put any positive reviews anywhere (other than here). But someone who is angry might put a review on a lot of sites.
#19
M
mullins87
M
mullins87
I agree with the original post to a point. I'm a very active shadetree mechanic that would love a set of Mac, Snap-on or Cornwell tools. However, I use various no-name cheaper brands that have served me well. But, if you have a critical piece of equipment that must operate day-in and day-out, then quality and reliability are of the utmost importance, regardless of price. Sometimes the cost of downtime will outweigh the cost of the equipment.
#20
066
066
yep seen that quite a few times.I would be willing to bet that the chain was on it backwards and he was ranting about it not cutting.........
#21
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
The problem with machinery is if they are not setup properly at pdi.
Consumers buy lawnmowers from big supermarket type stores at a cheap price but in a box.
They take it home, fit the handles the wrong way, add the wrong oil or no oil and usually the wrong fuel ie old fuel with no stabliser.
The engine runs rough, the machine dosent drive properly and customer then blames that brand.
Also with the engine running rough they think its a warranty when if they bought from a dealer they "should" be advised accordingly.
My hate is chainsaws from same as above.
They attempt to fit bar and chain and iv seen all different ways they do it.
Chainsaws should only be sold by dealers imo due to they are dangerous equipment.
Consumers buy lawnmowers from big supermarket type stores at a cheap price but in a box.
They take it home, fit the handles the wrong way, add the wrong oil or no oil and usually the wrong fuel ie old fuel with no stabliser.
The engine runs rough, the machine dosent drive properly and customer then blames that brand.
Also with the engine running rough they think its a warranty when if they bought from a dealer they "should" be advised accordingly.
My hate is chainsaws from same as above.
They attempt to fit bar and chain and iv seen all different ways they do it.
Chainsaws should only be sold by dealers imo due to they are dangerous equipment.
#22
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah that's a good point!
lawn mower fanatic
The problem with machinery is if they are not setup properly at pdi.
Consumers buy lawnmowers from big supermarket type stores at a cheap price but in a box.
They take it home, fit the handles the wrong way, add the wrong oil or no oil and usually the wrong fuel ie old fuel with no stabliser.
The engine runs rough, the machine dosent drive properly and customer then blames that brand.
Also with the engine running rough they think its a warranty when if they bought from a dealer they "should" be advised accordingly.
Yeah that's a good point!
#23
midnite rider
Every box has a book enclosed labeled instructions that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems.:2cents:
midnite rider
The problem with machinery is if they are not setup properly at pdi.
Consumers buy lawnmowers from big supermarket type stores at a cheap price but in a box.
They take it home, fit the handles the wrong way, add the wrong oil or no oil and usually the wrong fuel ie old fuel with no stabliser.
The engine runs rough, the machine dosent drive properly and customer then blames that brand.
Also with the engine running rough they think its a warranty when if they bought from a dealer they "should" be advised accordingly.
My hate is chainsaws from same as above.
They attempt to fit bar and chain and iv seen all different ways they do it.
Chainsaws should only be sold by dealers imo due to they are dangerous equipment.
Every box has a book enclosed labeled instructions that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems.:2cents:
#24
pugaltitude
Yes but the translation on the instructions can be confusing. Not all customers are mechanically minded
Briggs had problems with engine seizures for a while when machines bought from a box because the insructions read "top up oil".
Customers assumed there was oil in there and then the engines would seize and they thought this was warranty.
Also they buy the wrong spec of oil from supermarkets and again when something go's wrong they expect warranty.
Buy from your local dealer and give them your money.
pugaltitude
Every box has a book enclosed labeled instructions that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems.:2cents:
Yes but the translation on the instructions can be confusing. Not all customers are mechanically minded
Briggs had problems with engine seizures for a while when machines bought from a box because the insructions read "top up oil".
Customers assumed there was oil in there and then the engines would seize and they thought this was warranty.
Also they buy the wrong spec of oil from supermarkets and again when something go's wrong they expect warranty.
Buy from your local dealer and give them your money.
#25
MowerMike
Not necessarily. The instructions that came with my Husqvarna 7021P push mower with the Honda GCV160 gas engine was full of serious errors and omissions that if followed would have surely ruined the engine. The instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have underfilled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. The instructions said to change the oil every 25 hours with no mention of the important initial break in oil change after the first 5 hours of use. The instructions said to replace the spark plug with an NGK BPR6ES, which is the wrong (colder) heat range and is meant only for use in pressure washers. The correct plug is an NGK BPR5ES, which is hotter. Fortunately, the Honda engine instructions were also included, but I suspect most owners would not bother to read it and just read the Husqvarna manual.
MowerMike
Every box has a book enclosed labeled instructions that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems.:2cents:
Not necessarily. The instructions that came with my Husqvarna 7021P push mower with the Honda GCV160 gas engine was full of serious errors and omissions that if followed would have surely ruined the engine. The instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have underfilled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. The instructions said to change the oil every 25 hours with no mention of the important initial break in oil change after the first 5 hours of use. The instructions said to replace the spark plug with an NGK BPR6ES, which is the wrong (colder) heat range and is meant only for use in pressure washers. The correct plug is an NGK BPR5ES, which is hotter. Fortunately, the Honda engine instructions were also included, but I suspect most owners would not bother to read it and just read the Husqvarna manual.
#26
Ric
Ric
The reality is that people who buy from a big box store like Home depot think there getting a deal when in reality they could buy the machine from the dealer, have it set up and explained to them the correct procedure for operation and maintenance for the same price or cheaper.
Now I do agree in the instruction manual that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems. Imo if a person isn't smart enough to read that manual, he isn't smart enough to have the machine in the first place.
They have something for those type of people
Now I do agree in the instruction manual that if followed would prevent 99% of these problems. Imo if a person isn't smart enough to read that manual, he isn't smart enough to have the machine in the first place.
They have something for those type of people
There called a LAWN-CARE BUSINESS
#27
Ric
I went through the same thing with the Honda manuals. As well as some others like Briggs and Stratton and Kohler, they all do the same things with there manuals. What you have to remember is that the manuals are set up for as many as three or four different engines. You'll find all the information for your mower there, checking oil, spark plug replacement will be there and it will be correct.
You stated the instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have under-filled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. That would be true on some models but not all. The Kohler engines for example depending on the dipstick whether it's a screw in type or a push in can make a difference on how it and the oil should be checked.
Ric
Not necessarily. The instructions that came with my Husqvarna 7021P push mower with the Honda GCV160 gas engine was full of serious errors and omissions that if followed would have surely ruined the engine. The instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have underfilled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. The instructions said to change the oil every 25 hours with no mention of the important initial break in oil change after the first 5 hours of use. The instructions said to replace the spark plug with an NGK BPR6ES, which is the wrong (colder) heat range and is meant only for use in pressure washers. The correct plug is an NGK BPR5ES, which is hotter. Fortunately, the Honda engine instructions were also included, but I suspect most owners would not bother to read it and just read the Husqvarna manual.
I went through the same thing with the Honda manuals. As well as some others like Briggs and Stratton and Kohler, they all do the same things with there manuals. What you have to remember is that the manuals are set up for as many as three or four different engines. You'll find all the information for your mower there, checking oil, spark plug replacement will be there and it will be correct.
You stated the instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have under-filled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. That would be true on some models but not all. The Kohler engines for example depending on the dipstick whether it's a screw in type or a push in can make a difference on how it and the oil should be checked.
#28
MowerMike
The manual is meant only for the model 7021P with the Honda GCV160 engine and not other models with different engines, such as the model 6021P with the Kohler engine. So, this manual is completely incorrect for this model and does not pertain to other models.
MowerMike
I went through the same thing with the Honda manuals. As well as some others like Briggs and Stratton and Kohler, they all do the same things with there manuals. What you have to remember is that the manuals are set up for as many as three or four different engines. You'll find all the information for your mower there, checking oil, spark plug replacement will be there and it will be correct.
You stated the instructions said to measure the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, which would have under-filled the crankcase, since the proper method is to do it without screwing the dipstick into the engine. That would be true on some models but not all. The Kohler engines for example depending on the dipstick whether it's a screw in type or a push in can make a difference on how it and the oil should be checked.
The manual is meant only for the model 7021P with the Honda GCV160 engine and not other models with different engines, such as the model 6021P with the Kohler engine. So, this manual is completely incorrect for this model and does not pertain to other models.
#29
midnite rider
midnite rider
Sometimes you can't fix stupid. :laughing::laughing:
#30
S
slumlord
S
slumlord
I will use plumbing as an example for lawn equipment to illustrate the point. Delta made a heck of a good single handle kitchen faucet. 20 years ago,they cost about 90 bucks at a wholesale plumbing supply store,and you could buy them for 30% less at ace hardware or the big box stores.
The ones you paid top dollar had better components inside where it counts. Stainless steel instead of plastic inside made the difference. The customer usually got ten years out of a valve pack without leaking. My Delta faucet is going close to 20 years without any more than a few bucks for replacement washers. Using silicone plumbers grease for assembly[proper maintenance] also pays dividends.
The engines are different at the box stores as well. The engine numbers from a Briggs or Tecumseh are different from the box stores than the small dealer who sells that brand to the customer .I strongly suspect that there is a similarity to my kitchen faucet,no?
The ones you paid top dollar had better components inside where it counts. Stainless steel instead of plastic inside made the difference. The customer usually got ten years out of a valve pack without leaking. My Delta faucet is going close to 20 years without any more than a few bucks for replacement washers. Using silicone plumbers grease for assembly[proper maintenance] also pays dividends.
The engines are different at the box stores as well. The engine numbers from a Briggs or Tecumseh are different from the box stores than the small dealer who sells that brand to the customer .I strongly suspect that there is a similarity to my kitchen faucet,no?
#31
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah, there could be!
lawn mower fanatic
I strongly suspect that there is a similarity to my kitchen faucet,no?
Yeah, there could be!
#32
pugaltitude
pugaltitude
slumlord;90330 The engines are different at the box stores as well. The engine numbers from a Briggs or Tecumseh are different from the box stores than the small dealer who sells that brand to the customer .I strongly suspect that there is a similarity to my kitchen faucet said:No there usually is no difference with the engines. Different cover maybe but not the engine.
Briggs for example make approx 15 million engines a year give or take and the difference between them is usually a sticker or cover between different manufacturers.
A dealer can usually sell exactly the same product that a box store sells but usually more expensive as the box store is buying in bulk.
When it comes to buying a mower, Whats more important?
The deck or the engine?
#33
jekjr
It won't run of course without the engine. However many manufacturers use stamped decks that won't last. I know of a guy that has a John Deere that the deck is bad on and I understood him to say that a new deck with no bearings or anything was like in the $400 to $500 range. Welded decks can be repaired when/if they are bent. Stamped decks won't take the pressure of continued hard use.
jekjr
No there usually is no difference with the engines. Different cover maybe but not the engine.
Briggs for example make approx 15 million engines a year give or take and the difference between them is usually a sticker or cover between different manufacturers.
A dealer can usually sell exactly the same product that a box store sells but usually more expensive as the box store is buying in bulk.
When it comes to buying a mower, Whats more important?
The deck or the engine?
It won't run of course without the engine. However many manufacturers use stamped decks that won't last. I know of a guy that has a John Deere that the deck is bad on and I understood him to say that a new deck with no bearings or anything was like in the $400 to $500 range. Welded decks can be repaired when/if they are bent. Stamped decks won't take the pressure of continued hard use.
#34
lawn mower fanatic
I think they are equally important. Yes, a mower won't run without an engine..........but without a durable deck, it doesn't matter if the engine runs if the deck is broken! :confused2:
lawn mower fanatic
When it comes to buying a mower, Whats more important?
The deck or the engine?
I think they are equally important. Yes, a mower won't run without an engine..........but without a durable deck, it doesn't matter if the engine runs if the deck is broken! :confused2:
#35
Carscw
Carscw
I say the deck welded is better but stamped is just as easy to fix.
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Sent from my iPhone using LMF
#36
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
If he had cheap labor to keep his cheep junky machinery operating why not . And I can just hear his next statement . - with tears nearly running down his cheeks, I can only afford to pay .25 cents an hour - . If his employees were union organized the probability of the original statement being modified to a great degree is probable .I once worked for a man that was one of the top 100 wealthiest people in the US. One day we listening to him talk concerning some financial things in the factory where we worked for him. His parents came to the US right after WWII as immigrants and built much wealth in industry. He made a statement that I will never forget. He said that his father who had built much of the businesses had always said, "I would rather buy 100 one dollar watches than one one hundred dollar watch." In other words many times he would buy what many people said were cheap off brand machines that would get by but not last as long many times as the expensive ones.
That carries over to our businesses like cutting grass. We are taught to always by the best name brands because they are quality...... The idea from his perspective would be buy as cheap as possible to get the job done but it might not have the longevity...... Has anybody else ever heard of this type discussion?
That thought worked for them, they became very successful.
#37
jekjr
Actually he paid a very good wage and I worked for him for over 21 years.
In the South much industry is not Union. We made comparable wages and had comparable benefits to other mills that were union. In all of those years I was only laid off for two weeks. He is still alive but has pretty much retired and sold the mills out. Those that are still in those mills say that they are no where near as good to work for as they were when he owned them.
jekjr
If he had cheap labor to keep his cheep junky machinery operating why not . And I can just hear his next statement . - with tears nearly running down his cheeks, I can only afford to pay .25 cents an hour - . If his employees were union organized the probability of the original statement being modified to a great degree is probable .
Actually he paid a very good wage and I worked for him for over 21 years.
In the South much industry is not Union. We made comparable wages and had comparable benefits to other mills that were union. In all of those years I was only laid off for two weeks. He is still alive but has pretty much retired and sold the mills out. Those that are still in those mills say that they are no where near as good to work for as they were when he owned them.
#38
jekjr
That one I disagree with. They are too easy to bend and once they are bent they are never the same. However a welded deck only has to have a piece cut out of it with a torch and another piece welded back in.....
jekjr
I say the deck welded is better but stamped is just as easy to fix.
Sent from my iPhone using LMF
That one I disagree with. They are too easy to bend and once they are bent they are never the same. However a welded deck only has to have a piece cut out of it with a torch and another piece welded back in.....
#39
T
thirdroc17
T
thirdroc17
Several years ago, a friend of mine bought a box store riding mower, the same summer, I bought a used, high quality garden tractor for about the same money. 2 years later, he was buying another, 10 years later, I was still using the original set up I bought with few repairs.
The vast majority of people who get rich, do so at the expense of others. Their workers, the unsuspecting customer who is repeatedly buying yet another piece of junk. The vast majority of rich CEOs have sent the work overseas causing translation problems and laying off American workers, all for their own personal gain. Don't believe me? Look at the "made in" label on about everything you own.
Me? I'm going to stick with quality, Made in USA, whenever possible, because that's the right thing to do. Only problem is, my job was sent overseas because someone wanted cheap over quality, profits over the local economy, etc.
The vast majority of people who get rich, do so at the expense of others. Their workers, the unsuspecting customer who is repeatedly buying yet another piece of junk. The vast majority of rich CEOs have sent the work overseas causing translation problems and laying off American workers, all for their own personal gain. Don't believe me? Look at the "made in" label on about everything you own.
Me? I'm going to stick with quality, Made in USA, whenever possible, because that's the right thing to do. Only problem is, my job was sent overseas because someone wanted cheap over quality, profits over the local economy, etc.
#40
D
DinosaurMike
D
DinosaurMike
Everyone seemed to talk about maintenance, repair, and longevity. What about quality of cut (or whatever the item is designed to do) and operation? A lot of times the better (usually more expensive) item performs the task better than the lesser item in addition to being better built (more durable). I'm talking about such criteria as smoother cut or better clippings distribution or better mulching for a mower.
#41
lawn mower fanatic
Yeah that is true also. My Honda HRX217HYA's MSRP is $800 (I think I got it for a little less, but it was still more expensive than most mowers), and it is the best mulcher around in my opinion.
lawn mower fanatic
Everyone seemed to talk about maintenance, repair, and longevity. What about quality of cut (or whatever the item is designed to do) and operation? A lot of times the better (usually more expensive) item performs the task better than the lesser item in addition to being better built (more durable). I'm talking about such criteria as smoother cut or better clippings distribution or better mulching for a mower.
Yeah that is true also. My Honda HRX217HYA's MSRP is $800 (I think I got it for a little less, but it was still more expensive than most mowers), and it is the best mulcher around in my opinion.