The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper

[JCAllison]

Hey All,
Saturday, March 19, 2019, After Afternoon Update:

Have good news, and bad news.

First the good news. Billy at the Lawn Mower Shop tested the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid. It is FUNCTIONAL!

The bad news is that we are still on the hunt for why Karel won't Start.

Am going to reinstall the Unit. We'll be back to Square One.

JC

 

[JCAllison]

Hey All,
Saturday, March 19, 2019, Late Afternoon Update:

Was looking at the Wiring Diagram on Page 33 of the Owner Manual, and it shows Terminal "L" goes to the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid, and is a Blue Wire. Alas, the wires at the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid are Black and either faded Yellow, or Off-White. Had earlier taken the Plug off of the Ignition Switch, and cleaned the Terminals with a cut down Emery Board. Terminal L was given a bit of special attention, alas all to no avail.

Got out the RadioShack MultiTester and checked the continuity from the Ignition Switch Plug's "L" Terminal, and neither the Off-White or the Black Wires showed continuity.

Then noticed that there was an Electrical Union with a Blue Wire, and a Black Wire at the rear of the Engine. Just on a whim, I pulled that Union apart, and put it back together. Pushed on the Clutch/Brake Pedal, and Keyed the Starter.

WONDER OF WONDERS, KAREL STARTED RIGHT UP!!! (pardon the excitement, will try to calm down). Apparently, THAT Union was not making contact, and all it needed was being reset, and Karel eagerly started right up!

All that has to be done NOW, is to re-fill Karel's (earlier drained) Gas Tank, and she will be ready to MOW!

Am going to take a bit of a break, and then mow the lawns since there is still about three hours of sunlight left, and it only takes about a hour to do all three lawns.

Want to thank everyone here at the Lawn Mower Forum for taking the time, and making the effort to point me in the right direction. Had absolutely NO idea that Karel even had a "Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid". Didn't think of acquiring an "Owners Manual". Was essentially adrift, but "all's well that ends well" (that's Shakespeare).

Have very little expertise in matters of Craftsman Lawn Tractors, and so it is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. BUT, be assured that if Karel experiences any more glitches, that we will head for the Lawn Mower Forum. You guys are the best. Thanks again.

Take care everyone.

JC

 

[bertsmobile1]

Thanks for the heads up

There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who are afraid to ask them.
All of the plugs are "Self Cleaning".
So when you suspect an electrical problem,the first thing to do is to unplug then replug all of the plugs.
Saturating them with contact cleaner or WD 40 helps remove corrosion products then a smeer of contact grease over the plug before the final closure helps to stop moisture causing more corrosion.
Mowers suffer more from this than cars as the wiring is a lot more exposed.

 

[JCAllison]

Thanks for the heads up

Hey Mr. B1,
It appears to have been a bit premature! Karel was running GREAT! Had mowed for about fifteen minutes, and all of a sudden, it was like she ran out off gas. Stopped DEAD! Thought... No problem. Unplugged all the relevant wire, and re-plugged them. Tried to start the old girl, but she was having non of it.

Had a bit of a time getting Karel back to where she normally resides.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who are afraid to ask them.

Am reticent to ask questions till arriving at the end of what can be thought to do. Then it's time to ask someone who knows what you guys know.

All of the plugs are "Self Cleaning". So when you suspect an electrical problem,the first thing to do is to unplug then replug all of the plugs.

Will do that tomorrow.

Saturating them with contact cleaner or WD 40 helps remove corrosion products then a smeer of contact grease over the plug before the final closure helps to stop moisture causing more corrosion.

Since all the corrosion removing products are here, as is the Dielectric Silicone, will be doing this tomorrow when I'm not so fatigued. Am eighty years old, and what I used to do all day, now takes all day to do. Can say with some amount of authority that "Aging is NOT for sissies!".
[/quote]Mowers suffer more from this than cars as the wiring is a lot more exposed.[/QUOTE]
Karel is never exposed the the weather. When she is not in use, she is covered with a sheet of Plastic held down by a Tarp, but you're right that the wiring is a LOT more exposed.

Anyway, am going to go out right now and see if Starting Fluid will make her start and run till the Starter Fluid is gone. That will let me know if it's a Fuel Problem possibly caused by the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid. It may be that the functioning of the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid is intermittent.

Did this.

When the Air Filters were taken off, off, there was Gasoline visible in the Air Intake. Depressed the Clutch/Brake, and keyed the Starter, and Gas spewed out. Got all over me. None in my eyes, but my clothes got drenched. As soon as the gas was out of the Air Intake, Karel's Engine would turn a couple of revolutions, and then lock up. It did this a few times, and then of a sudden, the Engine started.

The Foam Wrap around the Pleated Paper Air Filter doesn't look to be very dirty, but am going to clean it to see if THAT may be what is causing the Engine to run too rich. It also may be that the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid is not closing when the Ignition is turned off.

Will let you know how it goes, but right now, I need to take a shower and get the gasoline off of me.

Take care.

JC

 

[dfbroxy]

Could be intermitted issue with ignition switch. Test for voltage at fuel shutoff switch with ignition in run position. If you get 0 then check the wires for shorts and frays. Then get the experts on here to help test the ignition.

 

[JCAllison]

Could be intermitted issue with ignition switch.

Hey Mr. D,
It might be the Ignition Switch, but from what happened since the last post, it is suspected that the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid is the problem.

Test for voltage at fuel shutoff switch with ignition in run position.

This would be done to the Light Colored Wire, and to any Ground?

If you get 0 then check the wires for shorts and frays.

All right.

Then get the experts on here to help test the ignition.

Step by step.

Have BAD News, and WORSE News!

After taking a shower, and putting on clean clothes, went out and checked the Carburetor. The Air Intake was again full of Gasoline.

Used my Cane to hold down the Clutch/Brake Pedal while keying the Starter from a location that if the Gas spewed out, it wouldn't get on me. Cranked the Engine till the flooded condition was over, and the Engine Started right up. The BAD News is that the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid isn't always closing, AND it isn't always opening. That might be because of some electric anomaly, or it might be that the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid is intermittently malfunctioning.

And now for the WORSE News: Checked the Engine Oil Dipstick. The Oil Sump is full of Gasoline!

This situation is like eating a piece of Mule meat... The more it is chewed, the bigger it gets! (some Deep East Texas humor there)

In any case, Karel's Engine will run, but the Fuel Problem is ubiquitous. Am going to have to drain the Oil, and put in NEW Oil.

Am at this moment kind of overwhelmed by the cascading problems. Will check on Karel one more time before retiring for the night.

Will let you know how it goes.

JC

 

[dfbroxy]

Dont want to step on any toes, but dont change oil until problem is fixed and DONT START ENGINE. I think they were right now about the shut off valve, and possibly float valve in carb. But would start with shut off valve.

 

[JCAllison]

Dont want to step on any toes, but dont change oil until problem is fixed and DONT START ENGINE.

Hey Mr. Dm
All right.

I think they were right now about the shut off valve, and possibly float valve in carb. But would start with shut off valve.

Do you mean the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid, or an In-Line Shut-Off Valve?

Tomorrow, will have to be out, and about doing weekly errands, and necessary tasks. Also Thursday will be spent with Health Related Agendas. So will not get back to working on Karel till next Friday. Will take it from there at that time.

JC

 

[bertsmobile1]

The shut off solenoid is not what one would think.
It just shoves a ram up the main jet to stop fuel passing through the jet and into the engine.
It does not stop fuel entering the carb.
Because of EPA regulations carbs no longer have an external drain tube that you can look at dribbleing and say "gees the carb is flooding, better look at the float & needle"
Now days to prevent fuel escaping into the atmosphere, (really worked in your case didn't it) , the float bowl drain is internal.
So the float is not shutting off the fuel supply to the carb.
The fuel level rises then dribbles into the air passage and down into the engine, or all over you.

Do not continue cranking the engine, you will do a lot of damage because petrol does not compress like an air:fuel mix does.

You are back to where you started.
The carb will have to come off for a clean and perhaps a new needle & seat.
It is not a difficult job if you remember to take photos of where everything went before you take them off.
Put a sharpie mark on the throttle control cable & clamp so it goes back in the same spot and take photos of the various wires & springs.

There are full photo instruction here http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/

 

[JCAllison]

The shut off solenoid is not what one would think.
It just shoves a ram up the main jet to stop fuel passing through the jet and into the engine.
It does not stop fuel entering the carb.
Because of EPA regulations carbs no longer have an external drain tube that you can look at dribbleing and say "gees the carb is flooding, better look at the float & needle"
Now days to prevent fuel escaping into the atmosphere, (really worked in your case didn't it) , the float bowl drain is internal.
So the float is not shutting off the fuel supply to the carb.
The fuel level rises then dribbles into the air passage and down into the engine, or all over you.

Hey Mr. B,
Went out this morning, and the Air Intake had Gasoline in it. Pulled the Dipstick, and it had Oil up to the "FULL" Mark, and the rest of the Dipstick was dry. Am now questioning my diagnosis that there was Gasoline in the Oil Stump.

Do not continue cranking the engine, you will do a lot of damage because petrol does not compress like an air:fuel mix does.

Had yesterday already restarted the Engine twice by cranking it till it cleared being flooded. Am not going to restart it till Karel's issues are resolved.

You are back to where you started.

Right.

The carb will have to come off for a clean and perhaps a new needle & seat.
It is not a difficult job if you remember to take photos of where everything went before you take them off.
Put a sharpie mark on the throttle control cable & clamp so it goes back in the same spot and take photos of the various wires & springs.

Actually, at this point in my existence, am not at all confident that I have the ability to do a rebuild of this Carburetor. Have decided that it is a job for Billy at the Lawn Mower Shop. Am going to go visit him after posting this, and see if I can even afford to have him do it.

Will let you know how it goes.

JC