The Daily Yardman Thread

[Roger B]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

Bert-man,

Now I am learning something about grease... I was wondering though, where the shaft on that side is a little worn (scratched up, really) wouldn't I be better off with the heavier (thicker) grease? If I did buy 5 pounds, what the blazes am I to do with the remaining 3-1/2 to 4 pounds?

When you say "tractor supply houses" you more than likely mean 'real' tractor supplies, not the 'Tractor Supply' store that we have here on this side of the pond..

I happen to have several old containers of wheel bearing grease, but I don't suppose that would be of any use?

Thanks..

Roger

 

[bertsmobile1]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

A tractor shop that sells tractors to farmers.
In particular an old tractor shop who sells parts for old tractors many of which use grease filled gearboxes 20 lbs of it for some.
I may have goofed the can size converting from metric to imperial.
The tubes down here are 450 to 500 gramms ( ~ 1 lb ) then there is the small tin 2lb and a tin twice that size 5lb ? and then the 20lb tin which is what I buy.

The lubricant is the powder mixed in with the fluid.
So if it goes dry & hard and all the grease ends up sitting on the outer edges of the case in big clags as was the case with 1/2 your box it won't do much lubing.
The semi fluid 00 grease will drop back down to the bottom and dribble onto everything that needs lubing on its way down.
000 grease is about 150wt gearbox oil 00 grease is about 200wt
I use 000 grease in the heads of trimmers that have seals and 00 on the ones that don't.
Or I could buy 0 grease in 2 oz tubes for $ 11 a tube.
the new grease tins are all plastic so when you have finished put in in the back of the shed , sell it on Craigs list or give it away.
In all cases you are way ahead on price.

 

[Roger B]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

Mobile Bert,

I very much appreciate your advice. The correct grease (by P/N) costs $20 for 19 oz.( Around 1-1/5 pounds.) Evidently that is the recommended amount to refill the transaxle. Grease has a tendency to remain stuck in globs inside of cases where it does no good at all. I shouldn't think that such a slow moving machine would develop enough heat in it's gear box to melt the grease so that it would flow of its own accord. As you (and I) noted, there were globs of grease that had never been utilized by the gearing in the transaxle. Some of the fault must be laid at the feet of who ever installed it. I expect a lack of lubrication was the cause for the bushing that failed. Grease had been pressed into the 'gutters' in the casting that ran alongside the axle, but not in the axle channel itself on that side. The grease that was outside the axle channel was never available for lubricating the bushing. I will try to do a better job with whatever grease I end up using.

You will have to forgive my somewhat distorted sense of humor. The question regarding what to do with four pounds of unused grease was intended to be 'tongue-in-cheek'.. Sorry.

Roger

 

[bertsmobile1]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

My sense of humour is probably slightly more perverse but I seem to always offend so gave up on the funnies quite a while back.
You use NPI ratings for grease viscosity over there and my recommendation is going one grade lower than the recommended.
Most greases do not melt at elevated temperatures and then the solvent evaporates and they form what I usually call tur?s in the bottom of the box.
Low melt greases are suspended in a wax which melts but the problem with that is when you have finished all the grease runs to the bottom of the box and forms a solid mass that takes a suprising amount of force to break free.
I tried it on an old Peerless 700 box that was clapped out,
new cases were $ 350 down here and then add another $ 50 for bushes & seals so we filled it with chain grease.
This is graphite in a modified bees wax.
Worked a teat till he tried to use it on a cold day and it broke the drive chain.
Mind you it was on its 3rd life, but the owner was a pensioner who had bought the mower new in 1962 and was happily retired till the GFC wiped him out.
So we were trying to do things on the real cheap.

He still has he box full of chain grease but leaves the mower outside if he needs to use it in winter & i found an old length of chain to replace the broken one.

Now getting back to your box , I would replace the grease with a slightly lower viscosity one.
The worst thing that can happen is it will leak a bit past the seals but in reality it is only a lawnmower not a space shuttle.

 

[BlazNT]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

My sense of humour is probably slightly more perverse but I seem to always offend so gave up on the funnies quite a while back.
You use NPI ratings for grease viscosity over there and my recommendation is going one grade lower than the recommended.
Most greases do not melt at elevated temperatures and then the solvent evaporates and they form what I usually call tur?s in the bottom of the box.
Low melt greases are suspended in a wax which melts but the problem with that is when you have finished all the grease runs to the bottom of the box and forms a solid mass that takes a suprising amount of force to break free.
I tried it on an old Peerless 700 box that was clapped out,
new cases were $ 350 down here and then add another $ 50 for bushes & seals so we filled it with chain grease.
This is graphite in a modified bees wax.
Worked a teat till he tried to use it on a cold day and it broke the drive chain.
Mind you it was on its 3rd life, but the owner was a pensioner who had bought the mower new in 1962 and was happily retired till the GFC wiped him out.
So we were trying to do things on the real cheap.

He still has he box full of chain grease but leaves the mower outside if he needs to use it in winter & i found an old length of chain to replace the broken one.

Now getting back to your box , I would replace the grease with a slightly lower viscosity one.
The worst thing that can happen is it will leak a bit past the seals but in reality it is only a lawnmower not a space shuttle.

Funny that you say that. In my life I met someone who used to work on a plane for our armed forces. It was the SR-71 Blackhawk. They said that they where a mess to work on. On the ground when they where started before take off they leaked every fluid in the plane. When they got to speed in the air everything got hot and expanded and sealed the leaks. Just interesting how things are engineered to work.

 

[Roger B]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

B..Mobile-One,

I think I need a translator to fully understand all that you've told me, but I got the gist of it.. I wasn't sure if "worked a teat" contained a misspelling, or is an interesting colloquialism among sheep milkers.

Living in the N.E. corner of the US, I was trying to envision, first - why anyone would be operating a lawn mower in winter (cold weather - it snows here in cold weather, normally - lots! Lawn mowers aren't of much use to us then, we break out the plows and snow blowers.) and second - how friggin' cold was it to solidify the grease enough to break a chain drive? (Please convert degrees C to F, I'm not much good at that.)

Just as a point of interest, I don't think a "clapped out box" means the same thing 'Down Under' as it might 'Up Over'.. but then again, maybe it does! It formulates a truly horrible visual impression.

I am sorry to hear you too have been ostracized for a bent sense of humor.. I was once banned from facebook and was asked to leave a cast iron cookware forum (don't ask!) for puns I thought were funny as h#ll... I have been trying very hard to maintain the correct decorum here amongst fellow lawn tractor enthusiasts. I've already learned a great deal and would hate to lose contact with such a knowledgeable and agreeable group.

I almost made it to Australia back in 1970, but the submarine I was serving on blew an engine (one of four, a 1,600 HP, 12 cylinder, 24 piston, Fairbanks Morse) in Kobe, Japan and that pretty much put the kibosh on any side trips. I've always regretted missing out on seeing your part of the world.

Roger

 

[Roger B]

GREASE

OK Berts Mobile,

You've got me doing grease research. Would you be kind enough to review the following types of grease and tell me which ones are appropriate for use in my 'soon to be rebuilt' transaxle? From what I read I would chose EP-004 or EP-023 as they sound as though they are specifically designed for that purpose.

https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Grease/pds/GLXXMobilux-EP-Series

Then I found this listing of manufacturers of ep-0 grease:

• Manufacturer Lubricant
• Amoco Oil Co. - Rykon Grease #0 EP
• BP Oil Co.- Energrease LS-EP0
• Cheron U.S.A., Inc. -Dura-Lith EP0
• Citgo Petrol-Premium Lithium Grease EP0
• Conoco Inc. -EP Conolith Grease #0
• Exxon Company U.S.A. Lidok EP0
• Kendall Refining Co.-Lithium Grease L-406
• Mobil Oil Corp. -Mobilux EP0
• Petro-Canada-Multipurpose Lotemp EPGrease
• Shell Oil Co. -Alvania EP Grease RO
• Shell Canada LTD -Alvania Grease EPW
• Sun Oil Co. -Sun Prestige 740 EP
• Texaco Lubricants-Multifak EP0
• Unocal 76 (East & West) Unoba EP0

Then I got onto several different tractor forums, (REAL tractors, not lawn tractors) and everybody is talking about John Deere "corn head grease".. Now I've heard of corn hole grease (a.k.a. "boy butter") but never heard of corn head grease... So if you've never heard of it either, check this out: http://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-Special-Purpose-Corn-Head-Gun-Grease-AN102562.html

At three bucks and change for a tube, that looks like the way to go to me!

It's a great big slippery world out there isn't it?

Roger

 

[bertsmobile1]

Re: MTD Yardman Transaxle Rebuild

B..Mobile-One,

I think I need a translator to fully understand all that you've told me, but I got the gist of it.. I wasn't sure if "worked a teat" contained a misspelling, or is an interesting colloquialism among sheep milkers.

Living in the N.E. corner of the US, I was trying to envision, first - why anyone would be operating a lawn mower in winter (cold weather - it snows here in cold weather, normally - lots! Lawn mowers aren't of much use to us then, we break out the plows and snow blowers.) and second - how friggin' cold was it to solidify the grease enough to break a chain drive? (Please convert degrees C to F, I'm not much good at that.)

Just as a point of interest, I don't think a "clapped out box" means the same thing 'Down Under' as it might 'Up Over'.. but then again, maybe it does! It formulates a truly horrible visual impression.

I am sorry to hear you too have been ostracized for a bent sense of humor.. I was once banned from facebook and was asked to leave a cast iron cookware forum (don't ask!) for puns I thought were funny as h#ll... I have been trying very hard to maintain the correct decorum here amongst fellow lawn tractor enthusiasts. I've already learned a great deal and would hate to lose contact with such a knowledgeable and agreeable group.

I almost made it to Australia back in 1970, but the submarine I was serving on blew an engine (one of four, a 1,600 HP, 12 cylinder, 24 piston, Fairbanks Morse) in Kobe, Japan and that pretty much put the kibosh on any side trips. I've always regretted missing out on seeing your part of the world.

Roger

Not so much ostracized, just not appreciated and apparently offended a soul or two.
I have a hide thicker than a wombat ( makes elephant hide look like tissue paper ) and can not be bothered looking for reasons to be offended which annoys people trying to offend / abuse me no end.
RRRRR we might have had a wee slip of the fingers on that one.
Clapped out = well past worn out
Grass grows here all year round, climate is reasonably close to California and varies around the same with distance from the coast.
A cold winters day is 10 deg C ( about 18 above freezing in the scale of the mathamatically challenged poor scholar ) in the afternoon but the 2am temperature goes a few degrees below freezing.
We get just enough cold to set fruit on the cherry trees about 3 in every 5 years.
It was an old chain and the grease is not solid like ice, just rally thick like glue so dogs don't quite engage or dissengage properly and the grease between the theeth almost hydraulic locks.
The load is a lot more than most would imagine.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Re: GREASE

Ep 0 is not a type of grease, it is a grade of grease.
Exactly the same as SEA 30 is not a type of oil.
Similarly I can get most greases in 3 or four Ep grades.
EP in oils means something totally different ( Extreme pressure ).
The USA uses NPI numbers ( national Petrolium Institute ) AFAIK.
So if the tractor boys say corn grease is bees knees in grease filled boxes , go with the flow.

There are around a dozen or so "fillers" in greases, there names will be familiar, Molly, Graphite, Lithium, Zinc, Teflon .
These are the bits that do the heavy lifting that bridge the space between the teeth and get squashed to prevent the metal to metal contact.
All the other properties come from the suspension medium.
Water inclusion / disperson. corrosion resistance, operating temperature, fluidity .
In many cases , the different thicknesses is nothing more than the amount of filler added.
The more filler the thicker the grease.
So any gearbox grease that is safe for use with copper based bushes will be fine.
SUlphur is one of the fillers used where very high contact loads happen but sulphur is very agressive towards brass & bronze .

Funny enough, thick grease is cheaper than thin grease ( probably a volume thing ) and for a mower company grease leaking past the seals onto the showroom floor is a bigger problem than it going hard in 8 years & killing the box

 

[Roger B]

GREASE

Mobile-One,

You got me, I said "type" of grease but knew I meant "grade". When one hasn't spent their lifetime immersed in various lubricants, but rather simply grabbed a container of 10W-30, Singer Sewing machine oil, 3-in-1, 90W gear lube, K-Y or whatever the normal day-to-day lubrication requirement was, they don't develop a lexicon of the proper terminology to discuss this subject intelligently. The learning curve is fairly steep and I'm a slow climber... but I'm getting there.

I want to thank you for sharing your expertise, of not only lubricants but of the interesting flora and fauna (Wombats) and climatic conditions that exist in mysterious Australia. In this part of the world we grow pine trees (and other non-deciduous trees), potatoes (although Idaho does that far better than us) apples - again other locales like NY and WA far excel us, and rocks.. We grow lots of rocks! As far as mean animals are concerned, we have black bears, but by and large they don't bother anyone. I would say that our 'Fisher' is probably the meanest critter we have and they wouldn't normally bother people. They are members of the weasel family and display all the traits of that group in plentitude. Tangling with one would be a mistake, but would also be a rare occurrence.

I have still not heard a word from my welder, so rebuilding the transaxle is on hold until I get my hands on that part. Were you familiar with either Mobil's EP-004 or EP-023? The description of their properties sounded exactly like what you have recommended.

Roger