Small time...

[Ric]

Most of my jobs are right around were I live an since last year has been great an just expanding within a 1 mile radius! Not looking for 10 clients a day just maybe a couple a day when I get off in the mornings... Kinda just going up in scale when needed. It's just me operating the deal so no help or need for several mowers. Am I wrong for looking at gravely so hard! Been on the top of my list, I notice that you had your order into which u ranked them?????

:laughing: I remember that statement. I only was looking for a couple of clients a day then it was I can handle maybe 4 clients a day and the next thing I new I was running 80 clients a week with my son as helper. If your good and have the equipment for the job your client list can explode in a hurry.

There's nothing wrong with a Gravely but it wouldn't be my first choice because it just doesn't have as nice a cut as the Toro or Exmark. You'll need several mowers on the trailer if your going to do the job right. At least a ZTR and a push mower of some type. I always have three mowers on the trailer, all different size decks for or to cover all kind of mowing situations. I don't know what you have for slopes or hills in your location, but from what I've seen in Indy I'd be looking for a ZTR with the lowest center of gravity I could find and with ROPS and gravely isn't it.

 

[Carscw]

Look at the cost timecutter $3000
Commercial mower at least $6000.
EZT drives rebuild kit if they break. Mine never have with over 2000 hours. $60.

Hydro pump on a commercial mower $650
Search this group and you will see they go out a lot.
Maintaining a commercial mower will cost you more then twice the money.
You will have to do twice as many yards to pay for it.

I have a scag commercial ztr on its 3rd hydro pump in 4 years.

I have a timecutter with over 3000 hours in 11 years. Never a problem with the drives.

 

[Ric]

Look at the cost timecutter $3000 Commercial mower at least $6000. EZT drives rebuild kit if they break. Mine never have with over 2000 hours. $60. Hydro pump on a commercial mower $650 Search this group and you will see they go out a lot. Maintaining a commercial mower will cost you more then twice the money. You will have to do twice as many yards to pay for it. I have a scag commercial ztr on its 3rd hydro pump in 4 years. I have a timecutter with over 3000 hours in 11 years. Never a problem with the drives.

So what's your point? I've ran Cub Cadet mowers for years and never had issues but you can't deny the fact that the CC Z Force and Toro Time Cutter are and were designed as residential mowers and should be used for that purpose. If CC and timecutter mowers were all that great all the businesses would be using them but guess what there not. Just because you and I had reasonable luck with a mower and know how to maintain one doesn't mean everyone will. In-fact the chances of someone else having the same luck is slim to none.

As far as maintaining a commercial mower goes and the cost involved vs a residential, that's debatable. It would have a lot to do with what you buy and the dealer you use and how long you use the machine. I mean really My Grandstand has a 5 yr 1200 hr warranty so what is it going to cost me if something goes wrong and they fix it for nothing in that 5 years, same thing on the Z master. If memory serves the warranty is a 3 year consumer or 30 days commercial on the Time Cutter. That will save you a lot of money.

 

[bertsmobile1]

You really need to sit down & do your math carefully.
I have a customer who does nothing but pennsioners lawns on a government contract.
He uses Honda residential walk behinds, Honda line trimmer, Stihl blower, Shindawa chain saw, Atom edger & a local Greenfields 28" domesic ride on.
The Greenfields run a cork plate clutch & drive system and has prooved very reliable.
All of his gear is second hand & I do all the scheduled maintenance on it and to date only break downs are belts.
He makes a very good living, goes to FiJi or Hawaii every year for a 2 week vacation and has a fairly good life.

Another customer decided he was going to do mowing as a second job, walked into a glass front and walked out with $ 20,000 worth of debt which over 3 years is still being payed off.
All commercial grade Husqvarna gear and the only thing worth buying ( IMHO ) was the chainsaw. His repair bills are greater than the others scheduled maintanance.

If the gear you have is doing th job and making you money, then stick with it for now.
And put your expansion efforts into customers you can service with the equipment you currently own.
Put 1/2 to 1/3 of the PROFIT you are making aside and keep it for equipment upgrades.
At the end of the season have a good look at how much you have in your kitty.
This is your equipment budget, bought outright , leased or paid off, this is all you have to spend.
Do not buy an expensive piece of kit in order to win a contract unless you can amortise that cost with your existing customer base as the new client can give you the flick in a heartbeat then you are working your first job to pay for the second.
Because the working conditions in lawn care are highly variable you will most likely find no one mower will do everything as Ric has already advised.

Long term you will have to decide weather you are going to continue doing lawns to use the spare daylight hours you have or if you can make a better living tossing the full time job for your mowing business.
If you decide to go the first way then keep the costs down. Look at what is in the back of other mowing contractors trailers in your area, try some second hand gear, Usually you can get some one season and flog it off the next for near what you paid for it.
Once you have decided what works best for you then consider pulling the trigger on new mowers.
Note I said mowers plural, you will need back ups for everything because customers will not wear you not turing up because your mower is not working and mowing a 1/2 acre yard with a push mower because your ride on is broken is a pain, doing it 12 times a week is a lot of hard work particularly if you have 8 hours to put in latter that night.

Also remember while it is beer money you can be really flexiable with pricing. Once it becomes mortgage money things change, quickly.

 

[My_guy99]

Like I said you'll get a lot of different opinions on this subject. There is the right way and the wrong way to start a business and having the proper equipment can make a big difference when it comes to making money rather than spending it. Yeah I went the way Carscw said or recommended and I ended up spending three times the money over the years of mowing that I should have spent, in the long run you lose. You have to understand that a timecutter is a mower that was designed and intended for the Homeowner. The homeowner that would be lucky to use the machine for a grand total of maybe 25 to 30 hours a year and it works great but doesn't work for a person who will be mowing 25 to 30 hours a week. Trust me when I say a 9K commercial grade mower with a 5 year 1200 hour warranty is worth it's weight in gold if you start replacing drive units or PTO's decks, spindles or engines.

Thank you for the input here, I thought the time cutter was a commercial grade mower. I guess it shows you what I know about that so far

 

[My_guy99]

:laughing: I remember that statement. I only was looking for a couple of clients a day then it was I can handle maybe 4 clients a day and the next thing I new I was running 80 clients a week with my son as helper. If your good and have the equipment for the job your client list can explode in a hurry. There's nothing wrong with a Gravely but it wouldn't be my first choice because it just doesn't have as nice a cut as the Toro or Exmark. You'll need several mowers on the trailer if your going to do the job right. At least a ZTR and a push mower of some type. I always have three mowers on the trailer, all different size decks for or to cover all kind of mowing situations. I don't know what you have for slopes or hills in your location, but from what I've seen in Indy I'd be looking for a ZTR with the lowest center of gravity I could find and with ROPS and gravely isn't it.

Honestly I can't handle 80 clients that's crazy with my full-time job. This is just a side gig basically just to keep me busy when I have idle time and some extra money in the pocket! There aren't really any slopes that I have as far as clients at the moment but who knows what the future may hold. Don't plan on picking up to many more commercial properties trying to get in a bad taste in my mouth now about a few of the run-ins I've had with them already.

 

[My_guy99]

Look at the cost timecutter $3000 Commercial mower at least $6000. EZT drives rebuild kit if they break. Mine never have with over 2000 hours. $60. Hydro pump on a commercial mower $650 Search this group and you will see they go out a lot. Maintaining a commercial mower will cost you more then twice the money. You will have to do twice as many yards to pay for it. I have a scag commercial ztr on its 3rd hydro pump in 4 years. I have a timecutter with over 3000 hours in 11 years. Never a problem with the drives.

I've had a friend that has a timecutter haven't spoke to him about the quality of it but I believe he traded in for another commercial mower but I don't think he ever had any maintenance issues although he did have it maintained by the dealer. I'm not one to take it to a dealer so all maintenance will be done by me of course I don't like dealers touching anything of mine if I have anything to do with it.

The cost aspect is a big deal with me considering I really don't have the clientele that the man's a high price mower but I understand that high price more may be able to handle the big jobs and last longer than a less expensive mower of course

 

[My_guy99]

So what's your point? I've ran Cub Cadet mowers for years and never had issues but you can't deny the fact that the CC Z Force and Toro Time Cutter are and were designed as residential mowers and should be used for that purpose. If CC and timecutter mowers were all that great all the businesses would be using them but guess what there not. Just because you and I had reasonable luck with a mower and know how to maintain one doesn't mean everyone will. In-fact the chances of someone else having the same luck is slim to none. As far as maintaining a commercial mower goes and the cost involved vs a residential, that's debatable. It would have a lot to do with what you buy and the dealer you use and how long you use the machine. I mean really My Grandstand has a 5 yr 1200 hr warranty so what is it going to cost me if something goes wrong and they fix it for nothing in that 5 years, same thing on the Z master. If memory serves the warranty is a 3 year consumer or 30 days commercial on the Time Cutter. That will save you a lot of money.

Honestly I'm still using my consumer great craftsman rider 24 horse and it's been doing me a great over last eight years all my notes done by me. I replace the Hydrostat oil a few years ago didn't have any problems with it but didn't like the fact that my menu just stated it was non-serviceable. So I hacked into it anyway and changed it, been doing me a great so far but don't expect for the hold up for another eight years of course. I've only have approximately 190 hours on it so far an it runs like a top

 

[My_guy99]

You really need to sit down & do your math carefully. I have a customer who does nothing but pennsioners lawns on a government contract. He uses Honda residential walk behinds, Honda line trimmer, Stihl blower, Shindawa chain saw, Atom edger & a local Greenfields 28" domesic ride on. The Greenfields run a cork plate clutch & drive system and has prooved very reliable. All of his gear is second hand & I do all the scheduled maintenance on it and to date only break downs are belts. He makes a very good living, goes to FiJi or Hawaii every year for a 2 week vacation and has a fairly good life. Another customer decided he was going to do mowing as a second job, walked into a glass front and walked out with $ 20,000 worth of debt which over 3 years is still being payed off. All commercial grade Husqvarna gear and the only thing worth buying ( IMHO ) was the chainsaw. His repair bills are greater than the others scheduled maintanance. If the gear you have is doing th job and making you money, then stick with it for now. And put your expansion efforts into customers you can service with the equipment you currently own. Put 1/2 to 1/3 of the PROFIT you are making aside and keep it for equipment upgrades. At the end of the season have a good look at how much you have in your kitty. This is your equipment budget, bought outright , leased or paid off, this is all you have to spend. Do not buy an expensive piece of kit in order to win a contract unless you can amortise that cost with your existing customer base as the new client can give you the flick in a heartbeat then you are working your first job to pay for the second. Because the working conditions in lawn care are highly variable you will most likely find no one mower will do everything as Ric has already advised. Long term you will have to decide weather you are going to continue doing lawns to use the spare daylight hours you have or if you can make a better living tossing the full time job for your mowing business. If you decide to go the first way then keep the costs down. Look at what is in the back of other mowing contractors trailers in your area, try some second hand gear, Usually you can get
some one season and flog it off the next for near what you paid for it. Once you have decided what works best for you then consider pulling the trigger on new mowers. Note I said mowers plural, you will need back ups for everything because customers will not wear you not turing up because your mower is not working and mowing a 1/2 acre yard with a push mower because your ride on is broken is a pain, doing it 12 times a week is a lot of hard work particularly if you have 8 hours to put in latter that night. Also remember while it is beer money you can be really flexiable with pricing. Once it becomes mortgage money things change, quickly.

U are speaking my language, everything you said makes perfect sense and exactly what I thought about in the first place.

I really didn't want to start a account for equipment but it makes sense just have a small bucket is primarily for upgrading equipment and when it breaks go from there.

I'm really kicking my butt because last year, I ran across a Dixie chopper for about 2500 I believe and I passed on him because I really didn't know the history of the mower itself. Had a previous deal with the same guy that had the mower and that deal went bad, it was a trailer with no Vin number on it but he had a title really good price but I didn't want to deal with if it was the right Vin for the trailer or not I would had to put money into it anyway but didn't want the headache of dealing with the Vin number issue!

To my understanding a Dixie chopper will last forever but just was unfamiliar with the particulars about this mower. The hydros is really what scared me if there was a problem or not I never even got a chance to test drive it and that really gonna bought me because I had to go on vacation that following week and needed some of that money that I was going to put down on that mower so basically that was a little bit of my vacation money.

I doubt if this will replace my full-time gig and don't really want it to I love what I do, I drive semi's at night easy money no body to really bother me boss wise just go to one terminal drop a trailer come back go home... I can easily pull just over 100k doing that a year having this side job with lawn care is just icing on the cake of course.

 

[Ric]

Thank you for the input here, I thought the time cutter was a commercial grade mower. I guess it shows you what I know about that so far

The Timecutter is one of Toro's low end Residential mowers and like I said meant for like 25 maybe 30hrs a year for a homeowner to use. The EZT drive on the Timecutter is a light Duty drive. You can step up to there better Residential which would be the Titan Series but there more money and they do come with the Hydro gear 3100 drives which are a commercial drives but still have the Residential engines.

Honestly I can't handle 80 clients that's crazy with my full-time job. This is just a side gig basically just to keep me busy when I have idle time and some extra money in the pocket! There aren't really any slopes that I have as far as clients at the moment but who knows what the future may hold. Don't plan on picking up to many more commercial properties trying to get in a bad taste in my mouth now about a few of the run-ins I've had with them already.

The problem with the new guys trying to break into the business is they don't understand that in the lawncare business time is money. They think they can buy the residential equipment and make big bucks and it's easy and there so wrong. You say you have all this idle time to make extra money mowing lawns and that your Craftsmen has done you fine for 8 yrs and your happy with mowing a couple of lawns a day and that's great. The problem with that is the time it takes you to do 2 lawns at 15.00 a lawn or what ever with your tractor I can do 4 or 5 in that same time period at the same 15.00 a lawn with the right equipment. Big difference in how much money you put in your pocket.
You talk about not being able to handle 80 clients a week with a full time job and I can understand that but at the same time I understood those 80 clients a week were putting up to 4K a month in my pocket, my full time job sure didn't.