Small Engine novice

[rklemm60]

Well now we are getting some where
Good news for you is I have that manual and there is only 1 wiring diagram so I will post it below
Bad news is it is from a locked file so it is a screen shot which are never as clear as they could be
So the las thing we need to know is which ignition you have as there were 2 different ones used as depicted in the far right section
The Smart Advance ( called SAM ) and the plain magneto
To work out which you have remove the blower housing and look at the coils , only 1 white wire = std magneto , 2 wires ( yellow & brown ) = SAM
Worse news is as I predicted the magneto kill wire is the white while so if you connected that to power you have just cost yourself $ 80 to $ 150
JD use a 30 amp fuseable link between the battery & the alternator wire for recharging and a 15A fuse to protect the wiring on the red wire to the key switch.
I will guess that the extra red wire on the battery , the one that does not go through terminal cover , is a 1/2 wits attempt to overcome a blown fuseable link ( heavy blue wire )

Now the big question is can you understand this wiring diagram
From my time on various forums it appears that less than 0.01% of American can actually manage this basic high school education feat .
If not let us know so we can walk you through it and hopefully fix your butchered mower
Please note the K1 START RELAY is the proper name for the solenoid
To energise the starter the purple wire needs to be battery voltage when the key is in the start position.


View attachment 65779

Thank you so much for finding this wiring diagram!! I am working on getting the blower cover off so I can distinguish between SAM and Magneto. This is really encouraging!!

 

[rklemm60]

For one, that left pic, is the key switch right? See that green puss on the terminal side? That switch is bad.

And all that black house Romex wire is crazy.

Second pic from the left. See that green puss in the connector? Not good......

Lots of experimental wiring going on.

Get a cheap soldering iron and some marine grade heat shrink with the adhesive inside. Go to town on that mower.

Yes, the switch on the left is the key switch. I do have a red wire servicing an add on wench on the tractor, Maybe that is part of what is requiring more crazy wiring.

 

[rklemm60]

Bert, I agree with you. I guess we will have to be patient also. Rk, would you tell us what happens after you removed all your jumpers and also how well you understand electrical wiring, diagrams and troubleshooting? This will tell us if you can fix this with our help.

I did wire my new kitchen, but the 9 circuits were all new and youtube instructed me on how to successfully hooked up a four way switch, but I have no experience with tractor wiring. I would appreciate your help. Unfortunately I work 9 hours a day m - f. I can only work in the evenings and on weekends. I appreciate your willingness to walk me through this. I almost have the blower cover off the unit.

 

[rklemm60]

This is getting way too confusing as there are multiple threads happening
rklemm60 has energised the magneto kill wires so has fried both of his magneto coils so no matter what is done it will not start till they are replaced .
Star recognised the engine as having standard coils so at least he will not need to replace the SAM .
As he mentioned it was owned by a Cambodian immigrant , a person from a country where replacement parts do not exist so any broken item gets worked around , fixed or bodged .
SO the wiring will need to be properly checked
I have already suggested rklemm60 purchase the JD Tech Manual & Star has identified the correct one.
I found I had one on file so posted the wiring diagram.
In the other thread Star also posted the switch connections , so all the necessary information is there .

Right now I am waiting to find out is rklemm60 can understand wiring diagrams before going further .
As he got the mower for nothing IMHO as the price of the manual & coils is about 10% of the price of a used mower so it is a no brainer .
Looks like it was used to push snow as well so I would expect to see a fair bit of corrosion on the terminal plugs and would not be surprised if they key switch is bad
I could just about guarantee that the fuseable link has blown .
I usually replace them with a big fuse or circuit breaker

So now we wait for the owner to come back before we can help him with a repair plan

I am currently in the process of removing the blower cover so I am distinguish whether I have a SAM or a Magneto coil but it sounds like you have already determined it is magneto and I have fried both. Is it possible to test the magnetos once I pull them. If not, I will start looking for a pair of Magneto coils if that is advisable. As for the snow, my cambodian friend used a proper snow blower. We haven't had enough snow to justify using this tractor. Also, regarding the battery, I just purchased it last weekend. The battery I bought last oct was defective and only putting out 3 volts after a charge. This new one is putting out 12.5 volts. Also, regarding my cambodian friend, he was a mechanic by trade and ran his own shop along with his vietnamese wife. He also gave me a wood chipper and a gaseline powered edger. Both were well maintained with fresh oil, no bad gas, and they started up the first try. I hope this information helps you help me.

 

[bertsmobile1]

I have asked the moderator to close one of your two threads as it is getting very confusing so do not be surprised if this happens.
We shoould have gotten you to delete one way back but too late for that now .
Coils have a chip in then that basically replaces the points, if you are old enough you might remember points .
On a std magneto the chip is embedded inside the coils which then became "Modules" and increased in price by 4 to 8 times .
The SAM system has the chip in a remote module that allows the timing to advance or retard so these engine have a lot more torque .
Overall it was a failure so got abandoned .
The timing chips all work on negative voltages and are destroyed if they get battery voltage.
As they are not repairable it is a simple test
Works or replace
The test for the single wire one is to remove the white ( in your case ) kill wire from the coil and crank the engine
No spark = replace .
Testing a SAM system is a little more complicated
IF you buy the manual I suggested you will find it covers both the mower & engine and the engine section is actually better than the offical Kohler manual
It i a big manual ( around 300 pages ) with hundreds of photos so way too big to be sent as an email or attached to this thread

 

[bertsmobile1]

As for your friend
Firstly thank you for being a good human being and accepting him into your country & community
More people like you would actually make the USA GREAT AGAIN regardless of what a former disgraced yet still very popular president says.
We got a lot of SE Asian reffugees down here that originally we treated very well then there was a change of government and the current populist racist stance makes me ashamed to be called an Australian .
I have a lot of SE Asian imigrants in my run who have taken up market gardening and all of them a fine people .

However the things they do to keep their equipment running while being quite inventive , makes me cringe every time they phone.
OTOH once shown how to do the job properly they will do it.
All of them said the same thing that arm tooling was all bought on the black market so there was no factory service and even fewer parts available so work around were the normal .

 

[Rivets]

Rk, I’m going to go into instructor mode to help everyone out. Star, Bert and myself have all have had hundreds of hours electrical troubleshooting, but we will all have a problem, unless we follow a couple of simple rules.
First, we understand that your ability to troubleshoot DC electrical systems is limited, as troubleshooting DC circuits is very different than troubleshooting AC circuits.
Second, we are hundreds, if not thousands of miles from you and can not see what you see.
That being said if we ask a question, please be as specific as possible with your answer. Remember you are our eyes and ears with this project, so we must rely on you to paint us the best picture possible. Also, in electrical troubleshooting you “NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING“ if you don’t understand something we tell you, don’t be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember, it is better to ask a stupid question than make a dumb mistake.
To start with please reread all posts and answer as many of the questions we ask as possible. Post #10 is very important as we need to know what you feel your ability with DC circuits is. If you can’t answer a question don’t worry about it. Together we’ll get this worked out.

 

[StarTech]

I don't any question stupid when the person asking it don't know the answer. Now I got a brother that if you ask a question and if he knows the answer he will not tell you as he thinks you should know the answer too. Just being a jerk.

 

[rklemm60]

I have asked the moderator to close one of your two threads as it is getting very confusing so do not be surprised if this happens.
We shoould have gotten you to delete one way back but too late for that now .
Coils have a chip in then that basically replaces the points, if you are old enough you might remember points .
On a std magneto the chip is embedded inside the coils which then became "Modules" and increased in price by 4 to 8 times .
The SAM system has the chip in a remote module that allows the timing to advance or retard so these engine have a lot more torque .
Overall it was a failure so got abandoned .
The timing chips all work on negative voltages and are destroyed if they get battery voltage.
As they are not repairable it is a simple test
Works or replace
The test for the single wire one is to remove the white ( in your case ) kill wire from the coil and crank the engine
No spark = replace .
Testing a SAM system is a little more complicated
IF you buy the manual I suggested you will find it covers both the mower & engine and the engine section is actually better than the offical Kohler manual
It i a big manual ( around 300 pages ) with hundreds of photos so way too big to be sent as an email or attached to this thread

Thank you so much!! that should be fine to remove the two threads. thanks for explaining the transition from points to modules. one question, I understand removing the kill wire from the coil, but, this kohler has no pull cord and the switch doesn't work, so how would I test for spark?

 

[rklemm60]

Rk, I’m going to go into instructor mode to help everyone out. Star, Bert and myself have all have had hundreds of hours electrical troubleshooting, but we will all have a problem, unless we follow a couple of simple rules.
First, we understand that your ability to troubleshoot DC electrical systems is limited, as troubleshooting DC circuits is very different than troubleshooting AC circuits.
Second, we are hundreds, if not thousands of miles from you and can not see what you see.
That being said if we ask a question, please be as specific as possible with your answer. Remember you are our eyes and ears with this project, so we must rely on you to paint us the best picture possible. Also, in electrical troubleshooting you “NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING“ if you don’t understand something we tell you, don’t be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember, it is better to ask a stupid question than make a dumb mistake.
To start with please reread all posts and answer as many of the questions we ask as possible. Post #10 is very important as we need to know what you feel your ability with DC circuits is. If you can’t answer a question don’t worry about it. Together we’ll get this worked out.

Thank you. I will re-read all the posts and make sure I have answered all the questions with as much specificity as possible and I will try to get you pictures that we need to solve this project. I am blown away by the patience you have with somebody that only has a couple hours a day to work on this until this weekend when I will have more time. WRT DC circuits, I am not comfortable. I believe you are going to have to walk me through step by step.