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Reverse Kill Switch

Oct 5, 2013#1

P

preacherdan

Hey yall, i have a 46 " craftsman gold series 2013 mower i bought from sears, and when i put the mower in reverse, while blades are engaged it kills the mower, is there any way around this feature? because i would really like to be able to use my reverse while mowing!

Oct 5, 2013#2

R

Rivets

I suggest you read you owners manual. Seeing that you don't give us the model number, I can only assume that your unit has a position on your key switch and a push bottom. If you have no manual, you can go to Sears Parts Direct and download a manual.

Oct 10, 2013#3

P

preacherdan

the way i understand it, the 2012 had the key disable mechanism, the 2013 were supposed to not be able to mow in reverse. so i wanted to see if someone has found a way around this, the craftsman tech told me that they made them that way as a safety feature , so the owners manual is not of assistance here

Oct 10, 2013#4

Carscw

preacherdan said:
the way i understand it, the 2012 had the key disable mechanism, the 2013 were supposed to not be able to mow in reverse. so i wanted to see if someone has found a way around this, the craftsman tech told me that they made them that way as a safety feature , so the owners manual is not of assistance here

I don't know what model you have but this is easy.
When you put it in reverse the lever or pedal pushes a switch you can remove the switch or just bend the bracket so the switch does not get pushed.

Oct 13, 2013#5

GentlemanFahmah

I believe the reverse kill switch feature to be one of the dumbest ideas ever forced on the consumer. I hate them! They are totally useless. Like any switch, it is either normal open or normal closed so figure out whether the switch wants to be open to function or closed and then modify the wiring accordingly.

I have no clue what Einstein thought this was a safety feature because this is on a par with a reverse engine kill on a car as far as I'm concerned.
:thumbdown:

Oct 13, 2013#6

chobbs1957

GentlemanFahmah said:
I believe the reverse kill switch feature to be one of the dumbest ideas ever forced on the consumer. I hate them! They are totally useless. Like any switch, it is either normal open or normal closed so figure out whether the switch wants to be open to function or closed and then modify the wiring accordingly.

I have no clue what Einstein thought this was a safety feature because this is on a par with a reverse engine kill on a car as far as I'm concerned.
:thumbdown:

According to my Snapper owner manual, a very high percentage of lawnmower related injuries happen when somebody backs over somebody else, usually a child, while mowing in reverse. Personally, I've never heard of such, and agree that this is at least a little bit of over-reach of regulators protecting us more than we need.

Oct 13, 2013#7

Carscw

If you back over your child with a mower you have done 3 things wrong.
Backed up with out looking
Cut the grass with your kids outside they could get hit with a rock.
Did not teach your kids not to go around the mower. Running or not

Oct 13, 2013#8

reynoldston

Do any of the commercial mower have this useless reverse feature because my Ferris doesn't. I had to removed the safety switch on my Ferris so that wouldn't turn the engine off ever time I got off of it.

Oct 13, 2013#9

Parkmower

reynoldston said:
Do any of the commercial mower have this useless reverse feature because my Ferris doesn't. I had to removed the safety switch on my Ferris so that wouldn't turn the engine off ever time I got off of it.

No reverse switches on any of my commercial machines. Seat and parking brake, yes.

Oct 13, 2013#10

Carscw

I had a old Murray that had no safety switches was cutting a yard and hit a bees nest jumped off the mower to run from them. We'll the old Murray kept going and hit a tree and sat there running with blades on digging two holes while the bees attacked it for 20 mins.
A seat switch would have been nice.

Oct 14, 2013#11

J

junglejoe39

It sounds like you have the same tractor I just bought a brand new LT2000. Mine has the automatic trans. B4 buying I read all the reviews on the Craftsman site. Several did not like this feature and a few said unplug the yellow wire I believe on the right side

Oct 14, 2013#12

D

dwint

on my murray it wouldn't go in reverse unless the key was all the way to the right

Oct 14, 2013#13

PVHIII

preacherdan said:
Hey yall, i have a 46 " craftsman gold series 2013 mower i bought from sears, and when i put the mower in reverse, while blades are engaged it kills the mower, is there any way around this feature? because i would really like to be able to use my reverse while mowing!

Disabled mine simply bye cutting a wire under mower by tranny...black tape on both ends of wire and it was ready to mow...but it was my ol Troy built not craftsman

Oct 14, 2013#14

PVHIII

dwint said:
on my murray it wouldn't go in reverse unless the key was all the way to the right

My wire was yellow also...if not the yellow one..just keep cutting wires till ya find it

Oct 14, 2013#15

Carscw

Don't go cutting wires just move the switch so it does not come in contact with the lever.

Oct 17, 2013#16

BustedKnuckles

preacherdan said:
Hey yall, i have a 46 " craftsman gold series 2013 mower i bought from sears, and when i put the mower in reverse, while blades are engaged it kills the mower, is there any way around this feature? because i would really like to be able to use my reverse while mowing!

Assuming you have the MTD built model with the deck height and blade engagement levers next to each other on the right side of the seat...

When you begin to lift the blade lever you'll here a faint clicking; this is a switch that gets pushed in when the blades are OFF. Typically, you can gain access to this switch by removing the battery and looking under the body pan towards the lever area. A flashlight will be helpful.

The switch should be held in place by two 3/16" hex head screws; remove the screws so the switch is loose and do not unplug. Take a penny and hold it in place depressing the plunger and wrap electrical tape over the penny tightly keeping it from moving. Make several passes going all the way around the switch. This method is completely reversible and requires NO wire cutting.

Re-install the switch and mow in reverse all day!

I do this to every model that is made this way by MTD; not being able to mow in reverse is a huge PITA and a time waster. Not to mention the extra wear created by engaging and disengaging the blades over time.

Oct 17, 2013#17

PVHIII

Carscw said:
Don't go cutting wires just move the switch so it does not come in contact with the lever.

Don't go moving switches just cut the wire

Oct 17, 2013#18

PVHIII

BustedKnuckles said:
Assuming you have the MTD built model with the deck height and blade engagement levers next to each other on the right side of the seat...

When you begin to lift the blade lever you'll here a faint clicking; this is a switch that gets pushed in when the blades are OFF. Typically, you can gain access to this switch by removing the battery and looking under the body pan towards the lever area. A flashlight will be helpful.

The switch should be held in place by two 3/16" hex head screws; remove the screws so the switch is loose and do not unplug. Take a penny and hold it in place depressing the plunger and wrap electrical tape over the penny tightly keeping it from moving. Make several passes going all the way around the switch. This method is completely reversible and requires NO wire cutting.

Re-install the switch and mow in reverse all day!

I do this to every model that is made this way by MTD; not being able to mow in reverse is a huge PITA and a time waster. Not to mention the extra wear created by engaging and disengaging the blades over time.

or you can just cut the wire...just as effective and much easier

Oct 17, 2013#19

Carscw

Don't go redneck ing your mower
A cut wire will always give you trouble down the road.

Oct 17, 2013#20

BustedKnuckles

PVHIII said:
Don't go moving switches just cut the wire

Really?

It will be simple and look like this when you're finished; I did this one tonight and it mounts right back in place.

Cutting wires is hazardous and lazy. :thumbdown:

Oct 18, 2013#21

PVHIII

BustedKnuckles said:
Really?

It will be simple and look like this when you're finished; I did this one tonight and it mounts right back in place.

Cutting wires is hazardous and lazy. :thumbdown:

Wow..that pic is was amazing.. did you go to school for that..cut the wire

Oct 18, 2013#22

PVHIII

Carscw said:
I had a old Murray that had no safety switches was cutting a yard and hit a bees nest jumped off the mower to run from them. We'll the old Murray kept going and hit a tree and sat there running with blades on digging two holes while the bees attacked it for 20 mins.
A seat switch would have been nice.

Lmao!!!..and this is the guy who's worried bout cutting a wire... how old are you son?...I think you have the "ME DISEASE"

Oct 18, 2013#23

BustedKnuckles

PVHIII said:
Wow..that pic is was amazing.. did you go to school for that..cut the wire

"Dear Mr. Copperhead,

I think you may have been bitten by a copperhead at some point in your life and you need to step away from the computer. Your ignorance and lack of common sense is astounding; do you really think it's good advice to tell people to start cutting wires? I would love to see the hacked up junk you have laying around your place. Can you share some photos with the rest of the class please?"

Jeff

Oct 18, 2013#24

BustedKnuckles

PVHIII said:
Lmao!!!..and this is the guy who's worried bout cutting a wire... how old are you son?...I think you have the "ME DISEASE"

It's really a shame that someone can't go to a forum for advice without having some fool like this step in and stink it up.

Oct 18, 2013#25

PVHIII

BustedKnuckles said:
"Dear Mr. Copperhead,

I think you may have been bitten by a copperhead at some point in your life and you need to step away from the computer. Your ignorance and lack of common sense is astounding; do you really think it's good advice to tell people to start cutting wires? I would love to see the hacked up junk you have laying around your place. Can you share some photos with the rest of the class please?"

Jeff

I see your "junk" on display in your avatar lol

Oct 18, 2013#26

PVHIII

BustedKnuckles said:
It's really a shame that someone can't go to a forum for advice without having some fool like this step in and stink it up.

I'd be scared to cut a wire on that thing as well..probably only has one

Oct 18, 2013#27

PVHIII

BustedKnuckles said:
It's really a shame that someone can't go to a forum for advice without having some fool like this step in and stink it up.

Yeah I can tell you like to fix and repair by looking at your mower..I'd hate to see what your home looks like

Oct 19, 2013#28

J

junglejoe39

In the reviews they said you could unplug the wire from the switch and zip tie the wire to frame. Fast,easy and smart and easy to return to original. Im an auto mechanic and would never just cut a wire

Oct 20, 2013#29

PVHIII

junglejoe39 said:
In the reviews they said you could unplug the wire from the switch and zip tie the wire to frame. Fast,easy and smart and easy to return to original. Im an auto mechanic and would never just cut a wire

Lol..ok I'm fine with that but there wasn't a plug to unplug on my old tractor style mower...cutting it accomplish's the same thing...I'm not saying just cut it...you need to cap the ends or wrap them with electrical tape and make sure you leave nothing hanging... doesn't hurt a thing and I know several folks that have had the same issue and they all have just cut the wire.. and there's always enough slack in the wire to reconnect it... it's not a big deal to cut the wire and does no harm to your mower...that wire is only there for the reverse kill option.. but hey man..what ever works...

Oct 20, 2013#30

reynoldston

I can't believe what you are arguing about. Over cutting a wire. What in the world doses it matter and if the owner wants to cut all his wires, its his mower to do as he likes. Also the next person taped his switch its his time to use to R and R the switch. My own opinion I just like the looks of the tape job better but see nothing wrong with cutting the wire also. Just the mechanic in me I don't like cutting into a wiring harness because I have had to repair too many cut wires.

Oct 20, 2013#31

PVHIII

GentlemanFahmah said:
I believe the reverse kill switch feature to be one of the dumbest ideas ever forced on the consumer. I hate them! They are totally useless. Like any switch, it is either normal open or normal closed so figure out whether the switch wants to be open to function or closed and then modify the wiring accordingly.

I have no clue what Einstein thought this was a safety feature because this is on a par with a reverse engine kill on a car as far as I'm concerned.
:thumbdown:

I like how you put that sir..."Modify the wiring accordingly"... how specifically may I ask did you "modify the wiring"?...and your input is very much appreciated

Oct 20, 2013#32

PVHIII

reynoldston said:
I can't believe what you are arguing about. Over cutting a wire. What in the world doses it matter and if the owner wants to cut all his wires, its his mower to do as he likes. Also the next person taped his switch its his time to use to R and R the switch. My own opinion I just like the looks of the tape job better but see nothing wrong with cutting the wire also. Just the mechanic in me I don't like cutting into a wiring harness because I have had to repair too many cut wires.

Thanks man...I appreciate your common sense...TREMENDOUSLY!... And I totally agree it's definitely not worth arguing over...but I do get tired of some of these "know it alls" on here who think they KNOW IT ALL...and act like cutting a wire is comparable to cutting your own mother's throat... again... I appreciate your comment...THANKS

Oct 20, 2013#33

wjjones

GentlemanFahmah said:
I believe the reverse kill switch feature to be one of the dumbest ideas ever forced on the consumer. I hate them! They are totally useless. Like any switch, it is either normal open or normal closed so figure out whether the switch wants to be open to function or closed and then modify the wiring accordingly.

I have no clue what Einstein thought this was a safety feature because this is on a par with a reverse engine kill on a car as far as I'm concerned.
:thumbdown:

I agree 100% mine has the key switch function to mow in reverse but the seat switch was so sensitive my wife couldnt mow without the engine cutting out so I had to bypass it. She could hit a bump in the yard, and it would bounce her up just enough to kill the engine. I know the seat switches are good for hilly terrain but our yard is flat so the switch is kinda pointless. They really should have left the mow in reverse option on the ignition. But I agree with you there has to be a way to bypass it. I would not cut any wires but it can be bypassed without cutting anything.

Nov 24, 2013#34

tigercat

PVHIII said:
Disabled mine simply bye cutting a wire under mower by tranny...black tape on both ends of wire and it was ready to mow...but it was my ol Troy built not craftsman

Yep, I do the same thing. I won't play with stupid safeties. If they fail, I cut out the bad organ like a doctor cuts out an appendix!

Nov 24, 2013#35

Ric

You don't have to remove the switch or bend the bracket. The bracket is adjustable for setting the switch and should be held in place by a couple of small screws and can be adjusted back and out of the way, at that point the switch it self should have a quick disconnect and can be unplugged and jumped with a small wire to continue the circuit and taped up with electrical tape and fastened down in some way. If you have to cut wires you should wire in a Male/Female disconnects. Any alterations you make with safety switches should be done so in a way so the unit can be returned to its original form for resale.

Nov 24, 2013#36

reynoldston

PVHIII said:
Thanks man...I appreciate your common sense...TREMENDOUSLY!... And I totally agree it's definitely not worth arguing over...but I do get tired of some of these "know it alls" on here who think they KNOW IT ALL...and act like cutting a wire is comparable to cutting your own mother's throat... again... I appreciate your comment...THANKS

Now I like the person that doesn't like any safety switches on their mower so they just start cutting wires and taping them all together. Now they call me and can't get there mower running. Money in my pocket, spending the day repairing wires and switches.

Nov 24, 2013#37

Ric

reynoldston said:
Now I like the person that doesn't like any safety switches on their mower so they just start cutting wires and taping them all together. Now they call me and can't get there mower running. Money in my pocket, spending the day repairing wires and switches.

I personally don't like safety switches. I think everyone has there own particular reasoning about safety switches. I know a lot of guys with small businesses that use the high end residential units to mow with instead of the commercial units because of cost and 99% of them remove or disconnect the switches because it can increase their productivity somewhat. Thing I never understood is why put them on residential mowers and not commercial.

Nov 24, 2013#38

briggs

i don't like reverse lock out myself as i find it to be pain in the *** ...But I run a small engine shop and i cant disconnect them because if i do i am reliable for anything that happens to the person that owns the mower ..Because it was at my shop last ...I have people come to me asking me to do it and i t tell them i cant do it sorry i don't want to get sued ....Now for my own Rider that's different i modified mine lol but i am not going to sue myself ether if something gos wrong

Nov 24, 2013#39

midnite rider

GentlemanFahmah said:
I believe the reverse kill switch feature to be one of the dumbest ideas ever forced on the consumer. I hate them! They are totally useless. I have no clue what Einstein thought this was a safety feature because this is on a par with a reverse engine kill on a car as far as I'm concerned.
:thumbdown:

chobbs1957 said:
According to my Snapper owner manual, a very high percentage of lawnmower related injuries happen when somebody backs over somebody else, usually a child, while mowing in reverse. Personally, I've never heard of such, and agree that this is at least a little bit of over-reach of regulators protecting us more than we need.

Ric said:
I personally don't like safety switches. Thing I never understood is why put them on residential mowers and not commercial.

briggs said:
i don't like reverse lock out myself as i find it to be pain in the *** ...But I run a small engine shop and i cant discount them because if i do i am reliable for anything that happens ...I have people come to me asking me to do it and i t tell i cant do it sorry i dont want to get sued ....Now for my own Rider that's different i modified mine lol

Rivets said:
I suggest you read you owners manual. Seeing that you don't give us the model number, I can only assume that your unit has a position on your key switch and a push bottom. If you have no manual, you can go to Sears Parts Direct and download a manual.

preacherdan said:
Hey yall, i have a 46 " craftsman gold series 2013 mower i bought from sears, and when i put the mower in reverse, while blades are engaged it kills the mower, is there any way around this feature? because i would really like to be able to use my reverse while mowing!

This is another common question on the forum along with the numerous other safety switches, seat, PTO, etc.
The reason for safety switches in my opinion is due to so many people want to put the blame for their own incompetence on someone else. Our society is suehappy. Thus the insurance industry pushes the manufacturers to install such safety devices to lower their insurance rates and help prevent them from being sued and found to be liable by the incompetent jury in a lawsuit by the incompetent user.
Removing or altering such devices can also enable you to be found liable if someone is injured on a machine you own, inspected, repaired, or sold.
Thus the reluctance by some of us to give information on "how to do". This is a procedure that you can figure out if you have any basic electrical knowledge and a schematic. Just be aware of the consequences and allow your alterations to be easily reversible.

Nov 24, 2013#40

briggs

midnite rider said:
This is another common question on the forum along with the numerous other safety switches, seat, PTO, etc.
The reason for safety switches in my opinion is due to so many people want to put the blame for their own incompetence on someone else. Our society is suehappy. Thus the insurance industry pushes the manufacturers to install such safety devices to lower their insurance rates and help prevent them from being sued and found to be liable by the incompetent jury in a lawsuit by the incompetent user.
Removing or altering such devices can also enable you to be found liable if someone is injured on a machine you own, inspected, repaired, or sold.
Thus the reluctance by some of us to give information on "how to do". This is a procedure that you can figure out if you have any basic electrical knowledge and a schematic. Just be aware of the consequences and allow your alterations to be easily reversible.

well said i wont let a mower go if i see them un-hooked ..I have had people get mad at me for hooking them back up and i tell them it was here last and i cant let it go because if u run over someone and hurt them i am reliable what u do with it after it leaves my shop is up to u ..I take photos and write in the book to cover my own butt ...And i don't charge them to hook it back up :thumbsup:

Nov 24, 2013#41

reynoldston

briggs said:
well said i wont let a mower go if i see them un-hooked ..I have had people get mad at me for hooking them back up and i tell them it was here last and i cant let it go because if u run over someone and hurt them i am reliable what u do with it after it leaves my shop is up to u ..I take photos and write in the book to cover my own butt ...And i don't charge them to hook it back up :thumbsup:

First of all I don't know Canadian law. But here in the USA I just don't see how anyone is responsible for what someone dose to there own mower. Yes you can get sued but are you going to win the case if you did it to your own mower. You can get sued for most anything but you can't spend all your time worrying about it. If the mower don't run because of a unhooked switch and they want it to run that switch will be working proper before it leaves my shop. Other then that I don't look for other unhooked switches unless the customer wants me to.

Nov 24, 2013#42

briggs

reynoldston said:
First of all I don't know Canadian law. But here in the USA I just don't see how anyone is responsible for what someone dose to there own mower. Yes you can get sued but are you going to win the case if you did it to your own mower. You can get sued for most anything but you can't spend all your time worrying about it. If the mower don't run because of a unhooked switch and they want it to run that switch will be working proper before it leaves my shop. Other then that I don't look for other unhooked switches unless the customer wants me to.

I don't look for them ether but if i see them i hook them up ...We had an *** here sue a fellow over something like this and it was the owner of the mower that un hooked it not the tec ..But because it was in his shop last he got blamed ..The owner ran over his nieces leg ...Guess who got sued for 500,000 plus court costs ...I dont want to fork out $500,000 for his stupidity...Like i said i don't care what they do when they leave my shop ...The jusge told him he is cert tec and should not have let it go like that ....That is why if i see it i keep a record of it with photos and that it was fixed free of charge i don't charge them for it because they did not ask for it but it covers my *** in the end much rather lose one pissed off client then get sued for 500,000 and lose my bizz all together

Nov 24, 2013#43

Carscw

It amazes me that someone can run a child over with a mower then blame the mower and not their own Inbread stupidity.
It's like hitting you thumb with a hammer them sue the company that made the hammer because they did not tell you you could hit your thumb.

Nov 24, 2013#44

briggs

Carscw said:
It amazes me that someone can run a child over with a mower then blame the mower and not their own Inbread stupidity.
It's like hitting you thumb with a hammer them sue the company that made the hammer because they did not tell you you could hit your thumb.

Yes i do agree with u 100% but people will do that stuff all the time and when something happens its not there fault its everyone else s...Look at the lady that spilled coffee on herself from Mcds u know its hot when u buy it why the hell would u sue them because u spilled it don't make sense to me:confused2:

Nov 24, 2013#45

reynoldston

briggs said:
Yes i do agree with u 100% but people will do that stuff all the time and when something happens its not there fault its everyone else s...Look at the lady that spilled coffee on herself from Mcds u know its hot when u buy it why the hell would u sue them because u spilled it don't make sense to me:confused2:

Look up the true facts on the McDonalds spilled coffee. The woman had third degree burns for one thing. McDonalds had high cost lawyers and lost this case for a reason.

Nov 24, 2013#46

Carscw

reynoldston said:
Look up the true facts on the McDonalds spilled coffee. The woman had third degree burns for one thing. McDonalds had high cost lawyers and lost this case for a reason.

I have read about a little and still feel it was wrong. She took the cup and drive away before it burned her. They did not spill it on her.

That case just opened a door for dumb azz people to get paid for being dumb.

At walmart a lady climbed up a shelf to get something and fell tried to sue she ended up paying walmart for the damage to the shelf.

Nov 24, 2013#47

briggs

reynoldston said:
Look up the true facts on the McDonalds spilled coffee. The woman had third degree burns for one thing. McDonalds had high cost lawyers and lost this case for a reason.

true but she still new it was hot ..I went to a coffee shop in the states when i drove transport i knocked a coffee pot over in my boot i got burned bad had 2 skin grafts done and have a nasty scare but whos fault was that was it mine for knocking it over or was it theirs for putting it there ...I didn't sue because it was my fault for not paying attention...But anyways the point i am making is people are out to pass the buck and sue u if they can me i don't care if anyone gets sued not my prob all i know is i will not put myself in that spot to be sued over someones stupidity or lack of using there dam head when backing up those safety's are there for a reason ...Are they a pain yes they are i will not disagree on that one at all ..Mine has been modified but then again i am the only one that uses it and when i am cutting my kids are in the house and they know not to play with it ..They have there own that i removed the deck and stuff they use it for a bush buggy...Its the one in my photo that they use

Nov 24, 2013#48

briggs

Carscw said:
I have read about a little and still feel it was wrong. She took the cup and drive away before it burned her. They did not spill it on her.

That case just opened a door for dumb azz people to get paid for being dumb.

At walmart a lady climbed up a shelf to get something and fell tried to sue she ended up paying walmart for the damage to the shelf.

i do agree with u it was bs we had it happen here to at one of are coffee shops ...Thats why i don't leave myself open to get sued for people being stupid

Nov 24, 2013#49

reynoldston

Carscw said:
I have read about a little and still feel it was wrong. She took the cup and drive away before it burned her. They did not spill it on her.

That case just opened a door for dumb azz people to get paid for being dumb.

At walmart a lady climbed up a shelf to get something and fell tried to sue she ended up paying walmart for the damage to the shelf.

I think if you look up the case she wasn't driving the car. Also the coffee pot was over heating the coffee and they knew it. I don't think you would get third degree burns from normal coffee. I don't know anything about the Walmart shelf case. I believe in our justice system as being fair as a rule. No its not a 100% but its what we have.

Nov 24, 2013#50

midnite rider

Nov 24, 2013#51

T

tybilly

preacherdan said:
Hey yall, i have a 46 " craftsman gold series 2013 mower i bought from sears, and when i put the mower in reverse, while blades are engaged it kills the mower, is there any way around this feature? because i would really like to be able to use my reverse while mowing!

sorry sir,safety features are there for a reason, to keep you and your loved ones safe,i cant suggest someone to modify to mow in reverse.thankyou for your question .

Nov 24, 2013#52

briggs

midnite rider said:

:thumbsup:

Nov 24, 2013#53

briggs

tybilly said:
sorry sir,safety features are there for a reason, to keep you and your loved ones safe,i cant suggest someone to modify to mow in reverse.thankyou for your question .

:thumbsup: i don't do anything that is un-safe nor will i tell anyone to do so ..I would feel bad if someone got hurt because i told someone to disconnect a safety switch

Nov 24, 2013#54

Carscw

reynoldston said:
I think if you look up the case she wasn't driving the car. Also the coffee pot was over heating the coffee and they knew it. I don't think you would get third degree burns from normal coffee. I don't know anything about the Walmart shelf case. I believe in our justice system as being fair as a rule. No its not a 100% but its what we have.

I know I read about a case the lady got coffee at the drive up window.

If the coffee pot was over heating the coffee then I see how she won.

Nov 29, 2013#55

A

aka rotten

Talk about a thread gone bad!

Nov 29, 2013#56

reynoldston

aka rotten said:
Talk about a thread gone bad!

I feel real bad and will hang my head in shame. :ashamed:

Nov 29, 2013#57

midnite rider

aka rotten said:
Talk about a thread gone bad!

So let us make a switch and reverse our intentions and kill this thread! :laughing: :thumbsup:

Nov 29, 2013#58

Carscw

OMG Lol

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