Propane

[Terry CleanFuel]

it was from 2008 and up smarty paints And yes u are correct i did copy and paste boy u are smart lol did u go to school for that to ....But as i said I will post links when i get home i found about 30 plus saying its crap

Not many computers at the University of Washington when I attended.

Mike, really, you're making it personal with the name calling. Don't let it get to you! I'm not too old to learn something if it's presented correctly.

The plain truth is I am ABSOLUTELY interested in ANY study related to propane shortcomings! Many times it's the backyard mechanic who ran garden hose from his grill bottle with a needle-valve throttle swearing that propane is useless. Many studies cite "Propane has 17% fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline." This is true, but why use "gallon" as the reference? Why not use "pound" or "dollar" or cubic foot which will give propane the advantage of up to 30%? It's all in how you present the "facts".

The information I post is NOT mine. I can post as to personal experience but the facts I cite are mostly from customers and Governing agencies. I assume there are those "riding herd" over these folks to present correct findings. Wouldn't you think? I ask for "facts" because I can debate facts. Without facts debate turns to argument.

I don't mean to sound arrogant. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I'm used to being the expert - that's what I do. Nothing so far in this debate is "new" to me. I've heard it many times before. I suppose a lot of it is our industry's fault with the technology we had in the late 70s and early 80s. Those conversions had problems but we learned from them. Technology has come a long way since then.

Today's closed-loop EFI propane systems get very close to or exceed the performance of gasoline. Clean Fuel USA is making medium duty trucks with higher compression engines that no gasoline engine can touch. It boils down to the physics of the fuel. Ethanol not withstanding. Ethanol is just wrong on so many levels.

I have learned many things about mowing perusing this forum. Personally I wouldn't even THINK of questioning the experts here. Believe it or don't I've even learned a thing or two about generators from this "Briggs" guy. I can put that knowledge to use since I distribute Champion Equipment.

I'm not too thick to realize that the Good Lord gave me one mouth but two ears...

 

[LoCo86]

Not many computers at the University of Washington when I attended. Mike, really, you're making it personal with the name calling. Don't let it get to you! I'm not too old to learn something if it's presented correctly. The plain truth is I am ABSOLUTELY interested in ANY study related to propane shortcomings! Many times it's the backyard mechanic who ran garden hose from his grill bottle with a needle-valve throttle swearing that propane is useless. Many studies cite "Propane has 17% fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline." This is true, but why use "gallon" as the reference? Why not use "pound" or "dollar" or cubic foot which will give propane the advantage of up to 30%? It's all in how you present the "facts". The information I post is NOT mine. I can post as to personal experience but the facts I cite are mostly from customers and Governing agencies. I assume there are those "riding herd" over these folks to present correct findings. Wouldn't you think? I ask for "facts" because I can debate facts. Without facts debate turns to argument. I don't mean to sound arrogant. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I'm used to being the expert - that's what I do. Nothing so far in this debate is "new" to me. I've heard it many times before. I suppose a lot of it is our industry's fault with the technology we had in the late 70s and early 80s. Those conversions had problems but we learned from them. Technology has come a long way since then. Today's closed-loop EFI propane systems get very close to or exceed the performance of gasoline. Clean Fuel USA is making medium duty trucks with higher compression engines that no gasoline engine can touch. It boils down to the physics of the fuel. Ethanol not withstanding. Ethanol is just wrong on so many levels. I have learned many things about mowing perusing this forum. Personally I wouldn't even THINK of questioning the experts here. Believe it or don't I've even learned a thing or two about generators from this "Briggs" guy. I can put that knowledge to use since I distribute Champion Equipment. I'm not too thick to realize that the Good Lord gave me one mouth but two ears...

Everything has it's pros and cons and so far I have read mostly the benefits of using propane. So if you could make a list or name the negatives to propane. Just for my own personal curiosity.

 

[briggs]

Not many computers at the University of Washington when I attended.

Mike, really, you're making it personal with the name calling. Don't let it get to you! I'm not too old to learn something if it's presented correctly.

The plain truth is I am ABSOLUTELY interested in ANY study related to propane shortcomings! Many times it's the backyard mechanic who ran garden hose from his grill bottle with a needle-valve throttle swearing that propane is useless. Many studies cite "Propane has 17% fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline." This is true, but why use "gallon" as the reference? Why not use "pound" or "dollar" or cubic foot which will give propane the advantage of up to 30%? It's all in how you present the "facts".

The information I post is NOT mine. I can post as to personal experience but the facts I cite are mostly from customers and Governing agencies. I assume there are those "riding herd" over these folks to present correct findings. Wouldn't you think? I ask for "facts" because I can debate facts. Without facts debate turns to argument.

I don't mean to sound arrogant. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I'm used to being the expert - that's what I do. Nothing so far in this debate is "new" to me. I've heard it many times before. I suppose a lot of it is our industry's fault with the technology we had in the late 70s and early 80s. Those conversions had problems but we learned from them. Technology has come a long way since then.

Today's closed-loop EFI propane systems get very close to or exceed the performance of gasoline. Clean Fuel USA is making medium duty trucks with higher compression engines that no gasoline engine can touch. It boils down to the physics of the fuel. Ethanol not withstanding. Ethanol is just wrong on so many levels.

I have learned many things about mowing perusing this forum. Personally I wouldn't even THINK of questioning the experts here. Believe it or don't I've even learned a thing or two about generators from this "Briggs" guy. I can put that knowledge to use since I distribute Champion Equipment.

I'm not too thick to realize that the Good Lord gave me one mouth but two ears...

I called u a smarty pants that's name calling lol i could have said much worse then that u wanted facts i gave u facts but still have to call it bs when its put in front of u..U clam u are smart and all that and push the propane dose it have its pros yes dose it have its cons yes it has been pointed out ..Every which way from Sunday.on both sides ..U are pushing something they stared back in the 60s on cars ..They scrapped it for a reason in the and 90s ..Like i said before if it was so good why did they get rid of it ..They had the technology hell they put people on the moon and they could not make a good propane set up BS..It cost to much and people were not saving jack that's a fact..U can post what ever u want i worked on the junk i even owned the junk in the long run i didn't save anything other then a boat anchor that i could not get parts for ..And the tank was so dirty u could not get one for it ..Parts were not being sold anymore...So i sold for scrap and got 500 for the truck in weight that was more then i saved driving it :smile:

i don't take this personal at all ..Like i said i worked on it i also owned it ....Hell i even put a propane fogger kit on my Diesel truck (just like nitors ) gave me a little more power and made the smoke roll out the stacks but i did that for fun and blew the motor up ..Only dully around here that had it was 6.5 i even put an aftermarket turbo on it ..It blew up because it got to hot wonder why

 

[briggs]

Crapwagon Outtake: Propane And Propane Accessories | The Truth About Cars





Alternative Fuels • View topic - LIke to convert to propane, but what do you think of this ?


Gas 2 | What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.


The True Cost of Auto LPG – The Pros and Cons | The LPG Blog


The Pros and Cons of LPG Conversion


What Are the Pros and Cons of a Propane Lawn Mower?

 

[mac]

Not many computers at the University of Washington when I attended.

Mike, really, you're making it personal with the name calling. Don't let it get to you! I'm not too old to learn something if it's presented correctly.

The plain truth is I am ABSOLUTELY interested in ANY study related to propane shortcomings! Many times it's the backyard mechanic who ran garden hose from his grill bottle with a needle-valve throttle swearing that propane is useless. Many studies cite "Propane has 17% fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline." This is true, but why use "gallon" as the reference? Why not use "pound" or "dollar" or cubic foot which will give propane the advantage of up to 30%? It's all in how you present the "facts".

The information I post is NOT mine. I can post as to personal experience but the facts I cite are mostly from customers and Governing agencies. I assume there are those "riding herd" over these folks to present correct findings. Wouldn't you think? I ask for "facts" because I can debate facts. Without facts debate turns to argument.

I don't mean to sound arrogant. I'm sorry if I come off that way. I'm used to being the expert - that's what I do. Nothing so far in this debate is "new" to me. I've heard it many times before. I suppose a lot of it is our industry's fault with the technology we had in the late 70s and early 80s. Those conversions had problems but we learned from them. Technology has come a long way since then.

Today's closed-loop EFI propane systems get very close to or exceed the performance of gasoline. Clean Fuel USA is making medium duty trucks with higher compression engines that no gasoline engine can touch. It boils down to the physics of the fuel. Ethanol not withstanding. Ethanol is just wrong on so many levels.

I have learned many things about mowing perusing this forum. Personally I wouldn't even THINK of questioning the experts here. Believe it or don't I've even learned a thing or two about generators from this "Briggs" guy. I can put that knowledge to use since I distribute Champion Equipment.

I'm not too thick to realize that the Good Lord gave me one mouth but two ears...

You know guys, I can't understand why you even humor this CLOWN with a debate. I personnally choose to ignore him and go on with my life without complicating it.

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

You know guys, I can't understand why you even humor this CLOWN with a debate. I personnally choose to ignore him and go on with my life without complicating it.

Just stating facts Mac. Everybody is free to do the research they want. But RESEARCH! Don't just take for granted what you read here.

What was true ten years ago is no longer true now.

I constantly hear "propane is not a good fuel because it has fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline." This is true of course, propane DOES have fewer BTUs per gallon. However, gasoline has fewer BTUs than diesel which has few BTUs than kerosene which has fewer BTUs than fuel oil, etc. The heavier the fuel, the more energy content.

Using this logic, the best motorfuel would be tar.

If you take the better fuel by "specific gravity" propane is close to the top.

Now, if anybody would like to take issue with what I've stated here, I'd like to discuss it. Just fight "fire" with "fire".

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

Crapwagon Outtake: Propane And Propane Accessories | The Truth About Cars

This link seems to support propane?





Alternative Fuels • View topic - LIke to convert to propane, but what do you think of this ?

Again, there's pros and cons. I really don't understand the continued remarks about exhaust valve recession. What causes it:

"Lead additive in petrol prevented wear (recession) of the exhaust valve seat under the combined effects of heat (due to combustion) and valve closure (hammering on the seat). Lead acted by inhibiting impact welding of the valve on to the valve seat. Such welding, even on a microscopic scale, eventually leads to a significant loss of soft metal from the valve seat in cast iron heads, and allows the valve to sink further and further into the head.

The withdrawal of lead from fuel removes the protection your engine has enjoyed for all its life."

I don't know what else to say. Isn't Canada using unleaded fuel? The only thing I drive there is my Mooney.



Gas 2 | What is the future of fuel? What's new? What's next? Since 2007, Gas 2 has covered a rapidly changing world coming to terms with its oil addiction.

This would be pointed toward reasons NOT to convert. Ok. I agree with some of it but the material is somewhat dated.

I don't know how old you are but I'm 56 and remember as a young man the engines of that age. They were powerful and then some. Then came the age of unleaded fuel. Engines were detuned, compressions lowered and low-lift cams and smaller valves were put into service. Engines continued to be detuned to match the quality of the gasoline mix available. Is it any wonder that propane doesn't perform as well as gasoline?

I wore-out the engine in my 72 Chevy PU at around 300,000. I put in a new longblock at 11:1 with hardened seats and an RV com gained over 100 horses.

I found this statement noteworthy though:

"Of course, BTUs are only one small part of the overall equation. It doesn稚 take into account the thermal efficiency of a fuel, it痴 detonation-resistance, etc. all of which, if optimized, can tip the scales towards an alt-fuel痴 favor but we*e not talking about building an engine that痴 optimized for a given fuel. We*e talking about converting an existing engine that痴 been optimized for gasoline. See disadvantages no. 1 and 2, then start adding up the cost of the turbos, intercoolers, injectors, etc. that you値l need to buy and tune for to optimize the engine you*e trying to convert."


The True Cost of Auto LPG The Pros and Cons | The LPG Blog


The Pros and Cons of LPG Conversion


What Are the Pros and Cons of a Propane Lawn Mower?

Again, this seems to support propane doesn't it? I found this statement amusing:

" Inhaling propane can be extremely dangerous and potentially fatal." Propane is non-toxic. The one and ONLY thing it does is displace air when you breath it. I suppose inhaling it can be dangerous if you ignite it.

Thanks for bringing up these references! I'm being very serious! NOW we are having a discussion!

 

[briggs]

Again, this seems to support propane doesn't it? I found this statement amusing:

" Inhaling propane can be extremely dangerous and potentially fatal." Propane is non-toxic. The one and ONLY thing it does is displace air when you breath it. I suppose inhaling it can be dangerous if you ignite it.

Thanks for bringing up these references! I'm being very serious! NOW we are having a discussion!

if it displaces air then what are going to breath ,,As for the rest yes u have to weed out some of the stuff ...But there is tons more out there ...No we don't use lead fuels anymore ....Pick it apart all u want ..I don't care lol...I could careless if they made a propane unit ..But I do know that after one is made and they start using them it will be nothing but trouble and they will find out its all bullcrap like it was when they said it would be cheaper to heat your house with it blah blah blah ..Been there to went to propane cost 2 times as much as my oil did ...Went back to oil and wood combo ....Oh and I am 40 by the way ....Propane makes a mean cheese bugger I can say that

 

[briggs]

if it displaces air then what are going to breath ,,As for the rest yes u have to weed out some of the stuff ...But there is tons more out there ...No we don't use lead fuels anymore ....Pick it apart all u want ..I don't care lol...I could careless if they made a propane unit ..But I do know that after one is made and they start using them it will be nothing but trouble and they will find out its all bullcrap like it was when they said it would be cheaper to heat your house with it blah blah blah ..Been there to went to propane cost 2 times as much as my oil did ...Went back to oil and wood combo ....Oh and I am 40 by the way ....Propane makes a mean cheese bugger I can say that

anyways its been fun ..On to the next this is boring me now ...Enjoy talking to yourself wish u well

 

[Terry CleanFuel]

anyways its been fun ..On to the next this is boring me now ...Enjoy talking to yourself wish u well

Ok, take care and have a great Christmas or Boxing Day if that's your choice! I mean that sincerely.

My intent wasn't to offend you Mike. I AM happy that you did some research though. Perhaps others can benefit by this thread by doing their own research.

The anonymity of the internet makes us say things we typically wouldn't say face to face. I would like to apologize to Einstein and skooter, you know who you are. I watch too much Ron White...