Powder Coating Anyone?

[bertsmobile1]

the problem is there is power coating and powder coating and power coating.
The very best stuff chemically strips off the old paint then does a chemical clean followed by any repairs followed an another chemical clean followed by a controlled rusting followed by a powder coating followed by a full furnace vitrification.
In the end you have a part that is like a bath tub where the top coat is chemically bonded to the basecoat & to itself so if it is breached any where there is no corrosion & no lifting.

At the other end is a chemical degrease then a plastic top coat that envelopes the parts with little to no corrosion protection underneath so the first time the coating is compromised it will start to rust between the steel & the thick plastic coating. We have all seen this, cheap garden furniture where the top coat cracks then peels off in large lumps. Think about it as laminating for real objects.

Best by far is an active etch primer either a zinc rich one or somthing like the POR 15 mentioned earlier. So that if the paint is compromised any damage will be limited to the immediate area and not cause the entire coating to lift off after the base metal has become so badly rusted it is beyond economic repair which you can not see happeing because it is happening under the platic top coat.

Now as for doing it yourself the go is a big steel or copper pot on the barby with a boiling solution of caustic soda ( lye to some ).
This will lift all the paint off lift the rust off as well as degreasing in one ( long ) step that requires almost no effort.
Wash the clean part with hot water & blow dry quickly and then paint immediately .
Do not touch the cleaned parts with your bare hands.

You can give the parts a molasses treatment if you are not ready to paint immediately and the molasses ( phosphate ) surface can be painted directly over with no need for anything more then a light wipe with a tac rag.
A pound of Caustic and a pound of molasses will cost about $ 5.00 all up.
Better still is the old solutions can be poped into some old 4 gal plastic drums ( you see them every where on the side of the road ) for future use.
The molasses will stink but is fine . The lye needs to cool then be decanted.
the dreggs in the bottom of the boiling drum with all the crud it has removed can be neutralised with some muratic acid then allowed to evaporate off, The remaining crud gets wrapped in paper & popped into the garbage bin.

 

[unclelee]

Yeah...glad you brought the subject up...I have been meaning to get the front guard ( rake) and handle brackets for my 8FH11LB zinc plated...but the nearest place is about 50 miles from here, and time hasn't allowed me to get there.
I started checking out powder coat colors and have found they have a very nice selection including near chrome..?...lol
I have a powder coater with in about 10 miles from me....you have given me pause to reconsider my options.
Lee

 

[bt3]

the problem is there is power coating and powder coating and power coating.
The very best stuff chemically strips off the old paint then does a chemical clean followed by any repairs followed an another chemical clean followed by a controlled rusting followed by a powder coating followed by a full furnace vitrification.
In the end you have a part that is like a bath tub where the top coat is chemically bonded to the basecoat & to itself so if it is breached any where there is no corrosion & no lifting.

At the other end is a chemical degrease then a plastic top coat that envelopes the parts with little to no corrosion protection underneath so the first time the coating is compromised it will start to rust between the steel & the thick plastic coating. We have all seen this, cheap garden furniture where the top coat cracks then peels off in large lumps. Think about it as laminating for real objects.

Best by far is an active etch primer either a zinc rich one or somthing like the POR 15 mentioned earlier. So that if the paint is compromised any damage will be limited to the immediate area and not cause the entire coating to lift off after the base metal has become so badly rusted it is beyond economic repair which you can not see happeing because it is happening under the platic top coat.

Now as for doing it yourself the go is a big steel or copper pot on the barby with a boiling solution of caustic soda ( lye to some ).
This will lift all the paint off lift the rust off as well as degreasing in one ( long ) step that requires almost no effort.
Wash the clean part with hot water & blow dry quickly and then paint immediately .
Do not touch the cleaned parts with your bare hands.

You can give the parts a molasses treatment if you are not ready to paint immediately and the molasses ( phosphate ) surface can be painted directly over with no need for anything more then a light wipe with a tac rag.
A pound of Caustic and a pound of molasses will cost about $ 5.00 all up.
Better still is the old solutions can be poped into some old 4 gal plastic drums ( you see them every where on the side of the road ) for future use.
The molasses will stink but is fine . The lye needs to cool then be decanted.
the dreggs in the bottom of the boiling drum with all the crud it has removed can be neutralised with some muratic acid then allowed to evaporate off, The remaining crud gets wrapped in paper & popped into the garbage bin.

This was a very informative and a good read, Bert! Thanks for the information.

I'd never consider powder coating a lawnmower myself, but do appreciate the information and the ideas in this thread. I really like the example of the cracking of large lumps off of Lawn furniture. Excellent visual in my head now.

Mele Kalikimaka! (Merry Christmas in Hawaiian).

 

[bertsmobile1]

This was a very informative and a good read, Bert! Thanks for the information.

I'd never consider powder coating a lawnmower myself, but do appreciate the information and the ideas in this thread. I really like the example of the cracking of large lumps off of Lawn furniture. Excellent visual in my head now.

Mele Kalikimaka! (Merry Christmas in Hawaiian).

The major push mower factory in OZ ( Victa) use a particularly bad quality powder coating now days which lifts off all over the place particularly under the carb where fuel drops.
It also seems to be really porous ( all paints are porus to a varing degree ) but this stuff offers zero rust protection under the deck where wet grass accumulates.
They have really gone down the drain since Briggs took them over, Victa used to be world leaders and very innovative .
I used to be able to chemically clean off the rust then touch up but now I have to do a full strip and bare metal respray.
The old bases used to be good for 50+ years the new ones only just get past warrantee before they start to rust badly and in particular the 19" decks.
I rebuild 30 year old mowers better than the current new ones
So not supprisingly the imported mowers are killing them in the market

 

[Two-Stroke]

The major push mower factory in OZ ( Victa) use a particularly bad quality powder coating now days which lifts off all over the place particularly under the carb where fuel drops.
It also seems to be really porous ( all paints are porus to a varing degree ) but this stuff offers zero rust protection under the deck where wet grass accumulates.
They have really gone down the drain since Briggs took them over, Victa used to be world leaders and very innovative .
I used to be able to chemically clean off the rust then touch up but now I have to do a full strip and bare metal respray.
The old bases used to be good for 50+ years the new ones only just get past warrantee before they start to rust badly and in particular the 19" decks.
I rebuild 30 year old mowers better than the current new ones
So not supprisingly the imported mowers are killing them in the market

Does Victa still make two-cycle mowers? Do they make an alloy (Al/Mg) deck? I'd think that any premium mower would have a deck that won't rust.

Maybe there could be a Victa forum here. I would like to see some photos.

Thanks for the imput from Down Under. :thumbsup:

 

[bertsmobile1]

Does Victa still make two-cycle mowers? Do they make an alloy (Al/Mg) deck? I'd think that any premium mower would have a deck that won't rust.

Maybe there could be a Victa forum here. I would like to see some photos.

Thanks for the imput from Down Under. :thumbsup:

Yes they still do the pressure die cast alloy bases but they are dearer than the pressed steel bases.
Victa abondond the top end of the market after the failure of the Vortex. Absolutely brilliant mower, just not moron idiot proof enough.
Contry to popular belief the old steel decks were far superior to alloy decks . The new one are about as thick as bottle caps.
I have a yard full of HRU's & HRC's with smashed decks where a rock has gone through the side , which if not welded up pronto causes the deck to virtually fracture to the point of becoming a banana .
Honda has blitzed the top end of the market where all the alloy decks are. Some very schrewd marketing to the tradeies. Over rated, under powered but good for me because they cost a bomb to repair and require a lot of maintenance.

Briggs are discontinuing the the worlds best mower engine in 2016. And most likely closing down local plant all together replaceing them with badge engineered USA models.
They have done no development on the Power torque since the take over on 2008 and have deen disproportionally jacking up the price of the 2 strokes from the day they took over.
Shame, it is a beautiful engine, will do better than 40 years with just minimal service, the LM / G4 carby is a functional work of design art, the diaphram govenor never gives a stick of trouble and with all control cables hidden inside the snorkel you never have the "bashed in throttle control" problems you get with the Briggs. Gravity fed fuel line with tap so you can run the carb dry thus avoiding all the ethanol problems that plague B & S carbs and with the fuel intake so high in the vertical float chamber will run with 1/2 the float bowl full of water which rarely happens because the only place water can get in is the thin slit for the throttle lever and then mostly it runs down the outside of the air filter and drains out the cable adjustment hole.
Oddly enough Honda has just caught up with Victa after 69 years they are finally fitting snorkels as standard to all their commercial walk behinds but still leaving the laid up bowden cable to the throttle with the big dip in it so it will rust up solid over winter which will be good for me, lots of expensive repairs which owners are happy to pay for on a $ 1500 mower.

If a lot of members want to see pickies start a new thread and I will happily post them.
OTOH if you are the only one with taste & distinction then email me bertsmobile@tpg.com.au and I will put as many photos of whatever you want on dropbox ( free cloud web server ) for your pleasure.

 

[Two-Stroke]

Yes they still do the pressure die cast alloy bases but they are dearer than the pressed steel bases.
Victa abondond the top end of the market after the failure of the Vortex. Absolutely brilliant mower, just not moron idiot proof enough.
Contry to popular belief the old steel decks were far superior to alloy decks . The new one are about as thick as bottle caps.
I have a yard full of HRU's & HRC's with smashed decks where a rock has gone through the side , which if not welded up pronto causes the deck to virtually fracture to the point of becoming a banana .
Honda has blitzed the top end of the market where all the alloy decks are. Some very schrewd marketing to the tradeies. Over rated, under powered but good for me because they cost a bomb to repair and require a lot of maintenance.

Briggs are discontinuing the the worlds best mower engine in 2016. And most likely closing down local plant all together replaceing them with badge engineered USA models.
They have done no development on the Power torque since the take over on 2008 and have deen disproportionally jacking up the price of the 2 strokes from the day they took over.
Shame, it is a beautiful engine, will do better than 40 years with just minimal service, the LM / G4 carby is a functional work of design art, the diaphram govenor never gives a stick of trouble and with all control cables hidden inside the snorkel you never have the "bashed in throttle control" problems you get with the Briggs. Gravity fed fuel line with tap so you can run the carb dry thus avoiding all the ethanol problems that plague B & S carbs and with the fuel intake so high in the vertical float chamber will run with 1/2 the float bowl full of water which rarely happens because the only place water can get in is the thin slit for the throttle lever and then mostly it runs down the outside of the air filter and drains out the cable adjustment hole.
Oddly enough Honda has just caught up with Victa after 69 years they are finally fitting snorkels as standard to all their commercial walk behinds but still leaving the laid up bowden cable to the throttle with the big dip in it so it will rust up solid over winter which will be good for me, lots of expensive repairs which owners are happy to pay for on a $ 1500 mower.

If a lot of members want to see pickies start a new thread and I will happily post them.
OTOH if you are the only one with taste & distinction then email me bertsmobile@tpg.com.au and I will put as many photos of whatever you want on dropbox ( free cloud web server ) for your pleasure.

I started a Victa thread in "Small Engine & Mower Repair". All this Victa stuff is interesting but it doesn't belong in the LB forum. :ashamed:

I'd like to hear more about the brand -- particularly the two-cycle engines. Photos would be appreciated. :thumbsup:

Link to the Victa thread (with photos)