Oil filter check for Kawa FR691V

Darryl G

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I never said ALL Fram filters are crap, and even if I did I'm entitled to my opinion. I bet you come crying here when your motor blows up because you used an off-spec filter and vegetable oil you got for free from the restaurant dump barrel. :laughing:

At least buy a filter that cross references. Why buy some random filter that doesn't fit months before you even need it for a brand new machine? In the time you've wasted here you could already have the proper filter. :smile:
 

cpurvis

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Yep, penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Filter Derangement Syndrome is common on internet forums.
 

bertsmobile1

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I asked a question about gasket fitment and did not get an answer to that question. I didn't ask for moral guidance. I only use synthetic filters in my vehicles, including mowers, and would never go on a forum telling others they are wrong for choosing a paper-element filter like the OEM Kawasaki filter. The only critique I offered was to the replier who stated that all Fram filters were junk, which is not true. Calling him out is not attacking him, and some research will bear out that point.



Again, I only called out the replier who made the blanket claim about Fram. Whether the Fram Ultra measures up to his standards wasn't part of my inquiry. I simply thought someone had used that Fram Ultra oil filter in their Hustler mower and could provide feedback on fitment. I didn't ask for moral guidance but do listen to what others say, like Kremeneon who gave some useful info on Wix filters on a thread from last fall. I will probably return the Fram Ultra and patronize my local O'Reilly's store who carries Wix and are close by. Penny wise and pound foolish? Why buy a conventional Kawasaki paper filter for $16 at Lowe's when I can get a better synthetic filter at a more conveniently located store for $12? For my money I'll pick the latter, and it won't affect my warranty.

Well you did get an answer to your question.
It was just not a yes no type of answer .
There is a lot of variation in the machining of the filter housing.
A customer has a Vanguard that nothing other than an original B & S filter will screw onto & seal.
The same customer has 3 other mowers where the after market filters fit perfectly.
Some Kawasaki engines will only take the slightly smaller Kawasaki ( aftermarket ) filter because there is a hole in the casting so the machined face will not seal against the filter.
SO you have to remove your filter & check.
The chances of finding some one with the same machine & engine using the filter you asked about is quite low.

FWIW with all USA threaded oil filters I fit the B & S large filter from Gripskies which is usually a Rotary branded filter, or a Stens filter depending who was cheaper when I placed the order.
The only time I do not do this is when the filter can not fit into the available space or the customer specifically asks for a machine branded filter.
I have only been fixing mowers for 5 years but am yet to find one where the filter caused an engine failure.
Lack of oil , yes . Bad filter, no. Lack of oil then a top up & claiming it was the filter , yes , but those customer are now ex-customers. I do not lie to them & I will not have them lie to me.
On the engines that failed under warranty, the makers all tried to refuse warranty because I had fitted after market filters.
I refferred this to my suppliers and the engine suppliers backed right down & made the repairs or supplied me with the parts needed as the case might be.

Oil filters are some thing that very few really understand & I only KNOW enough to be sure I am not educated enough to pass a valid judgement.
And I have no idea what a "Synthetic" filter is considering the only "natural" oil filter is sand or diatomacous earths.
The oil filter on most mower engines is not particularly critical unless you are a mowing contractor because under normal circumstances you will never do enough hours for particulate contaminated oil to do a significant amount of damage to the engine.
Chemical corrosion from leaving dirty oil in there on the off season or even worse using auto oils in there for too long are a much bigger problem than the brand of filters used.
Vertical shaft engines are really basic & very cheap.


You are right to call out any one who makes blanket statements about particular brands without presenting any sort of proof to the claim.
You might note I also refuted that claim but in a much more subtle fashion
 

mhavanti

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Iclick,

I'm only going to jump in with a very short piece. Kawasaki does not build filters. Napa does not build filters. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan (Datsun), KIA, Honda, Yamaha, Mercury, Johnson. To shorten this, not one engine manufacturer builds, makes or utilizes magic to produce petroleum filters of any kind, design, etc.

Only thing you need from the manufacturers are their specifications which means if you purchase a filter of any brand, which of the half dozen manufacturers of filters on the market today, the branding is painted on. Make sure you use a filter of equal or greater specifications and save as much money as you can. Bert is right, not many filters on the market that aren't good.

Same for petroleum. Use the correct specifications as not one engine in existence today can read.

For anyone I may have insulted, it is not intentional. My experience as both a manufacturer and distributor placing big names on our filters. Filter manufacturers are made to order producers in whatever branding required. Same for petroleum. Now, there are different bases of petroleum. Even with different bases, those petroleum basis make products within specifications.

Good luck,

Max
 

iclick

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SO you have to remove your filter & check. The chances of finding some one with the same machine & engine using the filter you asked about is quite low.

I agree it was a long shot but wanted to give it a try anyway. Removing the filter now isn't practical since I won't be ready to do that for another few months and I want the new filter in hand when I do it. The solution is to return the Fram and go with another filter that meets the factory specs. I bought the Fram because its application list showed a 23hp Kawasaki engine for a leaf blower (see OP), but I noticed later that it didn't look like the FR691V, so I looked more closely at the specs. That's when I noticed the gasket ID/OD to be a bit smaller.

On the engines that failed under warranty, the makers all tried to refuse warranty because I had fitted after market filters. I refferred this to my suppliers and the engine suppliers backed right down & made the repairs or supplied me with the parts needed as the case might be.

They can't do that unless the aftermarket filter contributed to the failure (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). You make a good point, though, that in the event of an engine failure using an OEM filter would nix the possibility of backtalk from mfrs. like you describe and thus the hassle of convincing them otherwise should that event arise.

And I have no idea what a "Synthetic" filter is considering the only "natural" oil filter is sand or diatomacous earths.
The oil filter on most mower engines is not particularly critical unless you are a mowing contractor because under normal circumstances you will never do enough hours for particulate contaminated oil to do a significant amount of damage to the engine.

Synthetic materials are more durable than conventional paper and generally cost more. Mobil1, Amsoil, and Royal Purple are a few examples. In this case conventional mower filters cost more because they have the mfr's logo on them, which I guess demands a premium in the eyes of the mfr. Your point that it may be overkill is understood, but in my case I also see a cost saving and convenience factor. The Lowe's that sells Kawasaki filters is much further away than either Walmart (Fram) or O'Reilly (Wix). Better, cheaper, closer.

Chemical corrosion from leaving dirty oil in there on the off season or even worse using auto oils in there for too long are a much bigger problem than the brand of filters used.

This point prompts an OT question, if you don't mind. I did routine maintenance including oil/filter changes on my 12-YO Craftsman mower (B&S IC engine) once per year in spring, which is about 20 hrs of running time. I've been considering changing that schedule to fall for the reason you mention above. I use it about once per week for about 45 min. from around March thru October, then once in January to mulch leaves. I used Mobil1 15w50 in that mower.

You are right to call out any one who makes blanket statements about particular brands without presenting any sort of proof to the claim.
You might note I also refuted that claim but in a much more subtle fashion

Over the past 20 years I've seen lots of blanket claims on car and motorcycle forums, as well as "my [insert product here] is better than yours" arguments that are usually offered without evidence. The notion that all Frams are poor quality is a common misconception, as the inexpensive lines are rather cheap in quality, but the Ultra is highly regarded by those who rank filters. I've used Fram Ultras on vehicles for years with no issues, but I wouldn't really expect issues that I would notice with even the cheapest of filters. Call it peace of mind.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
 

iclick

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Kawasaki does not build filters. Napa does not build filters. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan (Datsun), KIA, Honda, Yamaha, Mercury, Johnson. To shorten this, not one engine manufacturer builds, makes or utilizes magic to produce petroleum filters of any kind, design, etc.

Champion Labs makes many of them. I can't find info on who makes Kawasaki filters.
 

bertsmobile1

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This point prompts an OT question, if you don't mind. I did routine maintenance including oil/filter changes on my 12-YO Craftsman mower (B&S IC engine) once per year in spring, which is about 20 hrs of running time. I've been considering changing that schedule to fall for the reason you mention above. I use it about once per week for about 45 min. from around March thru October, then once in January to mulch leaves. I used Mobil1 15w50 in that mower.

The best oil is the oil you just took out of your engine.
Now it is impractible to change the oil every time you use the engine but that would be best for the engine.

Contaminants in oil are both physical & chemical in an ideal world the addative package would neutralize or entrap these for the entire life of the oil.
Add to that there is a thing called gravity.
When an engine is not being used contaminants tend to settle out according to their specific gravity.
Much of these are electrolytic so facilitate galvanic corrosion.

Thus changing the oil after your last mow for the season is the absolute best time to do it.
Same story for your snow blower, should you have one.

Synthetic materials are more durable than conventional paper and generally cost more. Mobil1, Amsoil, and Royal Purple are a few examples. In this case conventional mower filters cost more because they have the mfr's logo on them, which I guess demands a premium in the eyes of the mfr. Your point that it may be overkill is understood, but in my case I also see a cost saving and convenience factor. The Lowe's that sells Kawasaki filters is much further away than either Walmart (Fram) or O'Reilly (Wix). Better, cheaper, closer.

Yep, I know what a synthetic oil is, although most are just remanufactured rather than actually synthetic.
However, paper is a synthetic product , we grind down substances to for a pulp then form the pulp into sheet extract the water , compact the fibres, dry it out & you have paper.
You can make it from anything that has fibres from hair ( off any animal ) to plants so what a synthetic filter is frankly is beyond me.
As mentioned before canisters full of various media like sand is a natural filter, all else are not natural & thus synthetic.
 

iclick

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Thus changing the oil after your last mow for the season is the absolute best time to do it.
Same story for your snow blower, should you have one.

I'll change my schedule to fall for the annual maintenance. BTW, I've been lubing my wheel bearings on the Craftsman with grease every year (20 hours), but notice some on this forum recommend daily or weekly. That sounds like overkill, but I also read where a reader called Hustler and they said to do when the oil is changed. The manual says "Weekly or 40 hours," which I assume means whichever comes first. So, weekly?

...paper is a synthetic product , we grind down substances to for a pulp then form the pulp into sheet extract the water , compact the fibres, dry it out & you have paper.

I assume paper elements are considered non-synthetic because they originate from a wood product. I'm not sure what synthetic filter elements are made of, but they are claimed to be more durable.
 
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Iclic............ I have looked at the kawi filters and the Briggs filters ....... I can't tell any difference between the 2 ......

I service a few Hustler raps with Kawi engines and because of warranty I use Kawi filters for my customers.......

I do agree that they are over priced.......

Oregon has the Kawi filter replacement for half the retail price...... I would bet good money that those two filters are made in the same plant, but has different paint on them..........

7 bux beats 14 bux any day.............

Also Kawi has 2 different filters a 2 1/4 inch and a 2 7/8 inch ....... You have the shorter one I think...........

Where you at in Louisiana ??
 
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Hey Bert ~!~!.............Here's a part of your reply earlier........

"Chemical corrosion from leaving dirty oil in there on the off season or even worse using auto oils in there for too long are a much bigger problem than the brand of filters used.
Vertical shaft engines are really basic & very cheap."

I do agree with servicing mowers in the Fall before a winter storage, and I know you are speaking in general......

That doesn't pertain to the OP or anyone down here....... There is no winter downtime for us... We use lawn equipment all winter long.... Less cutting cause the grass grows slower, but still growing....... Winter grass grows like a weed in the garden LOL...........

I service some mowers in the Spring but they keep track of their hours and if hits that mark in December then it gets done......

Anyway that's our climate, so it is what it is down here in Cajun Country Mon Ami ......

Plus Tard ..................
 
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