Non ethanol fuel question

[TobyU]

Here's the reality of all this in a nutshell:

• The consensus is there is no meaningful detriment (if any) in using high octane fuel in small engines. (Not my opinion but most aren't with me.)
• No one is suggesting a high octane benefit in small engines. There is a price detriment to high octane which makes it less desirable unless a trade-ff exists.
• E10 gasoline has a potential issue from phase separation, mitigated by prudent and short-term storage practices. Many don't see it as a meaningful concern.

The facts are that all things being equal, you will have more fuel related problems with e10 ethanol fuel anywhere with pure fuel but - all things aren't equal for everyone and with all people. Lol
I have found that using one ounce of fuel stabilizer with every gallon of fuel makes the e10 ethanol work just as well and last just as long as any "pure" gas you may get.

As with everything, your mileage may vary.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

The one place i have found where E10 is a problem is with old equipment with steel gas tanks. I work on a lot of old stuff. Before ethanol pure gas didn't attract water and rust out tanks. Ethanol gas has ruined many steel tanks. I use Red Kote to line the tanks to try and save them. The old 5hp Briggs lasted forever till ethanol gas and it destroys the tanks.

 

[Air4Dave]

And everything you just posted has been proven false. Some of it may of been considered true years ago, but with current fuel formulation is all false. Higher octane reduced pre-ignition but has the same burn rate and btu output as 87 octane.

I concur! Being a former Chevron employee of 27 years, and understanding how and why the different octanes levels are obtained, and for what reasons, I can say that using the premium fuels of 90+ octanes, without ethanol, is a great way to keep your small engines clean burning and hydrocarbon free! I have been using 92, or 91 ethanol free fuels for several years now and have NEVER had any issues of using this octane level. Doesn't matter if you have a 2-cycle or 4 cycle, older equipment or newer, it will work just fine.

 

[Skippydiesel]

The one place i have found where E10 is a problem is with old equipment with steel gas tanks. I work on a lot of old stuff. Before ethanol pure gas didn't attract water and rust out tanks. Ethanol gas has ruined many steel tanks. I use Red Kote to line the tanks to try and save them. The old 5hp Briggs lasted forever till ethanol gas and it destroys the tanks.

I do not agree, that ethanol destroys steel tanks - what destroys steel tanks is water that is allowed to collect at the bottom of the tank that the operator/owner of the equipment fails to remove on a regular basis.
Ethanol blends may attract more water than straight petrol however condensation occurs, whatever the fuel type.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

I do not agree, that ethanol destroys steel tanks - what destroys steel tanks is water that is allowed to collect at the bottom of the tank that the operator/owner of the equipment fails to remove on a regular basis.
Ethanol blends may attract more water than straight petrol however condensation occurs, whatever the fuel type.

That's what I mean the ethanol absorbs water and when left in the tank for a long time it rusts the tanks.

 

[ILENGINE]

I do not agree, that ethanol destroys steel tanks - what destroys steel tanks is water that is allowed to collect at the bottom of the tank that the operator/owner of the equipment fails to remove on a regular basis.
Ethanol blends may attract more water than straight petrol however condensation occurs, whatever the fuel type.

Water in fuel tanks and tanks rusting out was happening in the 70's prior to widespread use of ethanol in fuel. People would add Heat to their fuel tanks in the winter because the water was freezing and preventing fuel flow to the carb on their auto's

 

[TonyPrin]

The one place i have found where E10 is a problem is with old equipment with steel gas tanks. I work on a lot of old stuff. Before ethanol pure gas didn't attract water and rust out tanks. Ethanol gas has ruined many steel tanks. I use Red Kote to line the tanks to try and save them. The old 5hp Briggs lasted forever till ethanol gas and it destroys the tanks.

That's what I mean the ethanol absorbs water and when left in the tank for a long time it rusts the tanks.

Spoiler alert: water has been rusting metal parts on machinery since the industrial revolution. Sorry, but water causes rust (i.e., corrosion), not ethanol. And ethanol doesn't create water. The water in the form of liquid or condensation must already be there. Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it holds water not that it creates water or attracts it. Since it's already in the gas tank, the tank would rust without the ethanol. I've seen many rusted mower decks. Perhaps that's caused by ethanol, too.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Spoiler alert: water has been rusting metal parts on machinery since the industrial revolution. Sorry, but water causes rust (i.e., corrosion), not ethanol. And ethanol doesn't create water. The water in the form of liquid or condensation must already be there. Ethanol is hydrophilic, meaning it holds water not that it creates water or attracts it. Since it's already in the gas tank, the tank would rust without the ethanol. I've seen many rusted mower decks. Perhaps that's caused by ethanol, too.

Sorry Tony but fuel tanks rusting only became a big problem when some idiot 1/2 wit convinced government ministers who know nothing about chemistry & metallurgy to stop the use or Tern Plate for fuel tanks.
For those who do not know Tern Plate is like tin plate but the coating is 99.99% pure lead
This is why the tanks from old cars are usually a funny grey colour inside and can sit outside in the weather for decades without rusting .

 

[TonyPrin]

Sorry Tony but fuel tanks rusting only became a big problem when some idiot 1/2 wit convinced government ministers who know nothing about chemistry & metallurgy to stop the use or Tern Plate for fuel tanks.
For those who do not know Tern Plate is like tin plate but the coating is 99.99% pure lead
This is why the tanks from old cars are usually a funny grey colour inside and can sit outside in the weather for decades without rusting .

bertsmobile1, thanks for confirming that fuel tank corrosion today has nothing to do with E10. Note, however, that the move from terne plated fuel tanks is not directly related to legislation and regulation. Rather many car companies moved away from terne (in non-diesel steel gas tanks in general) and to plastic for cost and weight reasons. BTW, I believe there's a move toward plastic or fiberglass in fuel storage tanks, as well.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Err if no air gets in how does the fuel get out ?
All tanks are vented some where

Air gets in automotive fuel systems, it just doesn't flow in and out getting replenished with fresh moisture.

And then there is the 2004-2009 Prius whose fuel tank consisted of a bladder/bellows in a plastic case. Very little air volume over the fuel. As fuel was consumed the bladder collapsed.