Non ethanol fuel question

[GrumpyCat]

As far as ethanol, I was always under the impression that it was not good for small engines. If so, maybe this is outdated information. I personally don't use ethanol in anything I own, small motors or vehicles.

Ethanol is not good. But isn't The End Of The World.

The problem with small engines is the simple fuel system exposed to moist air. The problem is in how small engines are often left out in the weather.

Ethanol-free gasoline still accumulates water, but the water doesn't mix. The water can be decanted off the bottom of the tank and the gasoline still good to use.

 

[GrumpyCat]

The one place i have found where E10 is a problem is with old equipment with steel gas tanks. I work on a lot of old stuff. Before ethanol pure gas didn't attract water and rust out tanks. Ethanol gas has ruined many steel tanks. I use Red Kote to line the tanks to try and save them. The old 5hp Briggs lasted forever till ethanol gas and it destroys the tanks.

Ethanol is not "destroying tanks".

In 1984 I had to buy a new gas tank for my Honda motorcycle because it somehow had over 3/4" of water accumulated in my attached garage over the winter. Formed a nice line of holes through the tank at the gasoline/water line.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I do not agree, that ethanol destroys steel tanks - what destroys steel tanks is water that is allowed to collect at the bottom of the tank that the operator/owner of the equipment fails to remove on a regular basis.
Ethanol blends may attract more water than straight petrol however condensation occurs, whatever the fuel type.

And ethanol allows the water to carry in the fuel, exposing the entire tank not just the bottom. This is the problem with ethanol + water in carburetors. With pure gasoline a drop of water in the carburetor kills the engine. In ethanol, it simply leans the mixture, but probably goes right through the carburetor and engine.

 

[TonyPrin]

Err if no air gets in how does the fuel get out ?
All tanks are vented some where

Keep in mind that gasoline is a liquid and air is made up of gases. The gases expand and compress to fill the void as the liquid volume increases or decreases without impact unless the gas is pressurized which, in this case, it is not. There is no one-to-one exchange.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Water in fuel tanks and tanks rusting out was happening in the 70's prior to widespread use of ethanol in fuel. People would add Heat to their fuel tanks in the winter because the water was freezing and preventing fuel flow to the carb on their auto's

The product is called Heet, and it is primarily ethanol.

So ironically today people are complaining about that which they used to buy and deliberately add. Because it was better to suspend water in gasoline to get it out and through the system than have it puddle, freeze, and block fuel passages.

 

[ILENGINE]

The product is called Heet, and it is primarily ethanol.

So ironically today people are complaining about that which they used to buy and deliberately add. Because it was better to suspend water in gasoline to get it out and through the system than have it puddle, freeze, and block fuel passages.

Actually Heet is Methanol Or Wood alcohol with other additives.

 

[TonyPrin]

And ethanol allows the water to carry in the fuel, exposing the entire tank not just the bottom.

There are at least two reasons this is incorrect. First, ethanol dispersing water throughout the tank is a good thing. When spread throughout the entire tank only a small portion of the water comes in contact with the sides. Consider the perimeter of a 12" square is 48" while the area is 144". In this case 67% of the water is in suspension away from the sides. Beyond that, ethanol only holds up to .5 water, while water at the bottom of a tank is 100% water.

With pure gasoline a drop of water in the carburetor kills the engine. In ethanol, it simply leans the mixture, but probably goes right through the carburetor and engine.

Clearly phase separation (when ethanol releases water due to saturation) can cause engine and carburetor problems. Is there any proof water in ethanol is more damaging than pure water as you imply?

 

[grpascott]

The new Sheetz gas station near our house happens to sell ethanol free fuel, however the octane rating seems to be 90 (instead of the usual 87)
Is this higher octane safe for my Kohler VTwinand for my Honda self propelled mower?

I have been using 93 octane non ethanol in my bad boy (kohler 27hp twin) and all my small engines for three years. Carb problems went away, even in winter slow season. Fuel is cheaper than a new engine. Don't neglect routine maint like air filters, fuel filters and regular oil/filter changes. Also, in spring remove air shroud and check for clogged cooling fins. Happy mowing!

 

[grpascott]

A note of clarification, on my Kohler I run an offset key on the flywheel, giving me about 32 degrees of total advanced ignition. So the 93 octane is a benefit and I can mow at 2500 to 2800 rpm without my engine bogging and it runs cooler and more economical. Keep blades sharp!

 

[GrumpyCat]

There are at least two reasons this is incorrect. First, ethanol dispersing water throughout the tank is a good thing. When spread throughout the entire tank only a small portion of the water comes in contact with the sides. Consider the perimeter of a 12" square is 48" while the area is 144". In this case 67% of the water is in suspension away from the sides. Beyond that, ethanol only holds up to .5 water, while water at the bottom of a tank is 100% water.

Water is in contact. Water plus oxygen makes rust.

Clearly phase separation (when ethanol releases water due to saturation) can cause engine and carburetor problems. Is there any proof water in ethanol is more damaging than pure water as you imply?

Clearly you have never disassembled a carburetor or fuel injector which which sat unused with water in ethanol gasoline.

Ethanol gasoline phase separation is the ethanol + water falling out of solution. If only water fell out no one would care, but the mix is nasty.