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Looking at a ZTR but have a sloped yard

May 10, 2011#1

J

Jim Lahey

Hi all, Ive read so much conflicting information on ZTR mowers and sloped yards. Its hard to understand sometimes because some of the forum information is old and Im wondering if newer models have rectified some of the old issues regarding ZTRs and slopes.

Most of the yard is gentle slope but some spots approach what I think is about 15 degrees or so. A local lawn mower shop has a RZT 50 KW Club Cadet for sale. I like the idea of these since Im looking to shave mow time off of my 1.5 acre mow. I also like the comfort of how I sit in these relative to the traditional steering wheel tractors. Here are a few images of my yard, from different perspectives if it helps to visualize the slope. If anyone could provide insight, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

May 10, 2011#2

twall

Although I'm not an owner, Ventracs seem to be famous for their ability to handle slopes. I'm sure BKBrown will soon reccomend one. I'd give them a look-see, or pm him and ask him about them.

May 10, 2011#3

BKBrown

twall is right, I love my Ventrac - Check out the Ventrac Forum and http://ventrac.com/

These machines are NOT cheap (either inexpensive or cheaply made), but they will do much more than mow lawn ! :thumbsup:

May 10, 2011#4

J

Jim Lahey

BK can you tell me a bit more? Im looking to mow the yard, haul deadwood, and plow snow. I know the ZTR doesnt do most of those things, but I was thinking about buying a used ATV for that anyway. But Id be interested in what Ventrac product would suit my residential usage requirements so that I can least call a dealer and price it out, what do you think? The closest dealer to me is about 90 minutes away so Im not sure how that would work for service. But I still want to look into it.

I have a locally owned shop down the street from my house that has Cub Cadet and Toro ZTRs and I know they can go fast and really cut down mow time. I have several large trees with ornamental pavers around them for design and a large wood deck to cut around on this property. Thanks.

May 10, 2011#5

BKBrown

Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments Check out the web site !

This Tractor will do all you mentioned and more. I'm sure they could work out delivery. They would probably bring one to you and demonstrate it !
As for service, if you can change oil and air filters, and keep it greased -- I have nearly 900 hours on mine and it has not needed to go to the shop for service !:thumbsup:

May 10, 2011#6

Jetblast

Cub Cadet Z-Force S. The steering wheel controls the front wheels and the hydros, so it's great on slopes. The only limit is the ability of the front and rear tires to hold the grade without the whole thing sliding sideways, like any regular mower, tractor, or ATV would do.

For 1.5 acres I think you'll find them at the right price point.

Steering Wheel Control Zero-Turn Riders

May 11, 2011#7

K

KennyV

If that is all the slope your going to mow ... almost any ZTR will work fine on 15 degrees...
The Ventrac is a goos machine as is the Hustler or several other commercial or industrial mowers...

The biggest question is what do you want to spend on this??
3to 5k, 5to 8k, 10k, up to 15k, to 20k or a ZTR cab model that will run a snow blower and various styles of mower decks and front mounted attachments... that will run well over 30k+...

If your just looking for a very will built ZTR look at the Hustler Zeon... at 5k, it will handle your mowing like no other ZTR... YouTube - Hustler ZEON All-Electric mower
It all depends on what your looking for... :smile:KennyV

May 11, 2011#8

Ventrac

KennyV said:
If that is all the slope your going to mow ... almost any ZTR will work fine on 15 degrees...
The Ventrac is a goos machine as is the Hustler or several other commercial or industrial mowers...

The biggest question is what do you want to spend on this??
3to 5k, 5to 8k, 10k, up to 15k, to 20k or a ZTR cab model that will run a snow blower and various styles of mower decks and front mounted attachments... that will run well over 30k+...

If your just looking for a very will built ZTR look at the Hustler Zeon... at 5k, it will handle your mowing like no other ZTR... YouTube - Hustler ZEON All-Electric mower
It all depends on what your looking for... :smile:KennyV

Good morning everyone! Kenny is correct. If you are only doing 15 degrees then most Z-turn will do and I don't want to try to sell something to you that you may not need. What are you currently mowing your lawn with and how much time does it take? Our 4000 Series model may be a bit overkill for your needs unless you are looking to do more things down the road like tilling, trenching, etc. I would maybe check out our 3000 Series which can handle a good slope as well (can't put duals on it though) and is at a lower price point and size. It is AWD and has a lot of pushing power for moving snow, bucket for hauling logs or a 2inch receiver in the back for hooking up a trailer to haul things as well. Again, I don't want to sell you something you don't need, but if you are looking at a ZTR and an ATV to do some of those things, I would strongly recommend calling your closest dealer that you found on our Dealer Locator and have them come give you a demo! Never know till you try it whether it will fit your needs perfectly or be more than you need.

Hope this helps, good luck! :thumbsup:

May 11, 2011#9

jmurray01

I don't see how that kind of slope would be any kind of issue for any lawn tractor...

Please forgive me if I'm wrong!

May 11, 2011#10

J

Jim Lahey

Wow what a great forum, you guys are awesome.

I run on an old John Deere and it takes me about 1.5 hours to mow. Id like to cut that time in Half. Ventrac, thanks for weighing in. I do nothing other than plow and mow (and haul chopped wood about 150 feet in a straight line to my wood shed). My budget for all of these things is about $6000 CDN total. So initially I thought I would just get a ZTR because they are famous for saving time, and get an ATV for the hauling and plowing just because its fun to have another toy

So in this respect, I think the Ventrac 3000 series and its plow and mower attachments bring me way above budget, and really, isnt that machine overkill for what I need? Plus service is an issue. I live in the Niagara Region in Ontario Canada so Im not sure there are service sites close by. Id like to hear your opinion Ventrac. Thanks again.

I just wanted to make this thread because of all of the "no ZTR on slopes" stuff Ive read but a lot of you seem to think my current yard might be just fine, which is encouraging.

May 11, 2011#11

J

Jim Lahey

Left a message for my local (90 minutes away) Ventrac dealer

May 11, 2011#12

J

Jim Lahey

Well I did some early morning shopping and am very fond of the Toro SS 5060. Will decide between that and the original Cub Cadet I posted about in this thread.

If anyone has any insight into the Toro, Id like to hear about it. Thanks.

May 11, 2011#13

Briana

Hey Jim :smile: WELCOME to LawnMowerForum.com!

Great pictures! :thumbsup:

May 11, 2011#14

B

Black Bart

Jim Lahey said:
Wow what a great forum, you guys are awesome.

I run on an old John Deere and it takes me about 1.5 hours to mow. Id like to cut that time in Half. Ventrac, thanks for weighing in. I do nothing other than plow and mow (and haul chopped wood about 150 feet in a straight line to my wood shed). My budget for all of these things is about $6000 CDN total. So initially I thought I would just get a ZTR because they are famous for saving time, and get an ATV for the hauling and plowing just because its fun to have another toy

So in this respect, I think the Ventrac 3000 series and its plow and mower attachments bring me way above budget, and really, isnt that machine overkill for what I need? Plus service is an issue. I live in the Niagara Region in Ontario Canada so Im not sure there are service sites close by. Id like to hear your opinion Ventrac. Thanks again.

I just wanted to make this thread because of all of the "no ZTR on slopes" stuff Ive read but a lot of you seem to think my current yard might be just fine, which is encouraging.[/QUOTE} From looking at your photos you can use any kind and any make without a problem..

One thing about a blade when pushing deep snow is you must push straight ahead because when you angle the blade like you see the big snow plow's do you can not steer a garden tractor the pressure on the blade will push the front over and turning the wheel does no good it will just skid.

If I lived where you do I would look for a blower instead of a plow

May 12, 2011#15

Ventrac

Jim Lahey said:
Wow what a great forum, you guys are awesome.

I run on an old John Deere and it takes me about 1.5 hours to mow. Id like to cut that time in Half. Ventrac, thanks for weighing in. I do nothing other than plow and mow (and haul chopped wood about 150 feet in a straight line to my wood shed). My budget for all of these things is about $6000 CDN total. So initially I thought I would just get a ZTR because they are famous for saving time, and get an ATV for the hauling and plowing just because its fun to have another toy

So in this respect, I think the Ventrac 3000 series and its plow and mower attachments bring me way above budget, and really, isnt that machine overkill for what I need? Plus service is an issue. I live in the Niagara Region in Ontario Canada so Im not sure there are service sites close by. Id like to hear your opinion Ventrac. Thanks again.

I just wanted to make this thread because of all of the "no ZTR on slopes" stuff Ive read but a lot of you seem to think my current yard might be just fine, which is encouraging.

Sorry for the late reply Jim. It may be overkill for what you want especially if your budget is $6k. Many people buy our units just for the safety they can provide on slopes and for their great pushing power for removing snow, but work within your budget! I don't want to sell you something you don't need, but originally without knowing your budget I just wanted to bring some different ideas. :smile: Looking at your pictures, the slopes in your yard seem very minimal so any ZTR should be fine on those. As far as servicing, our dealer in Brantford that I believe you left a message with is phenomenal and would take care of you if you are ever interested down the road. Good luck :thumbsup:

May 12, 2011#16

S

steved

I mow slopes approaching 45* in parts of my yard with my Grasshopper 725k without issue. The nice thing about the Grasshopper is the tail wheel prevents any chance of tipping backwards and the low wide stance makes them very stable on side slopes. Those were the main selling points when I was looking at zero-turn mowers. But as the others, they are a commercial mower; and your going to pay for that durability.

The Grasshopper also has the ability to plow snow, and run a large snow blower.

May 12, 2011#17

S

Slater

steved said:
I mow slopes approaching 45* in parts of my yard with my Grasshopper 725k without issue. The nice thing about the Grasshopper is the tail wheel prevents any chance of tipping backwards and the low wide stance makes them very stable on side slopes. Those were the main selling points when I was looking at zero-turn mowers. But as the others, they are a commercial mower; and your going to pay for that durability.

The Grasshopper also has the ability to plow snow, and run a large snow blower.

Nothing against Grasshoppers, they are great machines, but I do not think you know what 45 degrees is. Or were you saying 45% grade? Even that is 25 degrees. To mow 45 degrees 'without' issue, is near impossible with ANY machine. I don't care if the machine is rated for 50 degrees continuous operation, you will have a good bit of turf damage. For a unit like the 725k that I believe is rated for only 20 degrees at most, you would be dealing with a LOT of turf damage even if you can get on the side or up the hill. Plus it is 2WD with bar tires so good luck getting good traction on sides of slopes. You WOULD have issue with oil starvation as well if it was indeed 45 degrees. I could take my Ventrac up 45 degrees, but the engine isn't rated for that and even though it would go up it, it would still tear turf even with dual wheels (8 total tires) and the fact that it is AWD. Sure you could go down 45 degrees with the 725k, just don't try to stop. Would you take your 725k up a really large dam, levee, or outfall? Most of those are only 28 degrees with parts being over 30 degrees.

Lets just make sure we aren't misguiding other operators or purchasers who may make purchasing decisions and dumb operating mistakes because we 'think' we know what something is and that is now what they believe.

Safety is the most important thing to think about and sometimes it isn't about whether it will do it, it is about whether you should do it and if you are safe, don't try to find the breaking point. Grab a 2x4 and get a slope indicator at a hardware store and go measure some slopes! :thumbsup:

Feel free to correct me on any point, lets just not get carried away :biggrin:

May 12, 2011#18

BKBrown

You are right Slater - check out the pictures of my slope gauge in the SURPRISE thread - 39 degree slope is possible for the Ventrac with Duals (8 wheels) mounted, but that is straight up and down and PUSHING

the limits of traction. I would not attempt a 45 Degree Slope with anything

unless teathered with a winch to a LARGE tree. and then the engine would be oil
starved quickly.

May 12, 2011#19

S

steved

Slater said:
Nothing against Grasshoppers, they are great machines, but I do not think you know what 45 degrees is. Or were you saying 45% grade? Even that is 25 degrees. To mow 45 degrees 'without' issue, is near impossible with ANY machine. I don't care if the machine is rated for 50 degrees continuous operation, you will have a good bit of turf damage. For a unit like the 725k that I believe is rated for only 20 degrees at most, you would be dealing with a LOT of turf damage even if you can get on the side or up the hill. Plus it is 2WD with bar tires so good luck getting good traction on sides of slopes. You WOULD have issue with oil starvation as well if it was indeed 45 degrees. I could take my Ventrac up 45 degrees, but the engine isn't rated for that and even though it would go up it, it would still tear turf even with dual wheels (8 total tires) and the fact that it is AWD. Sure you could go down 45 degrees with the 725k, just don't try to stop. Would you take your 725k up a really large dam, levee, or outfall? Most of those are only 28 degrees with parts being over 30 degrees.

Lets just make sure we aren't misguiding other operators or purchasers who may make purchasing decisions and dumb operating mistakes because we 'think' we know what something is and that is now what they believe. Safety is the most important thing to think about and sometimes it isn't about whether it will do it, it is about whether you should do it and if you are safe, don't try to find the breaking point. Grab a 2x4 and get a slope indicator at a hardware store and go measure some slopes! :thumbsup:

Feel free to correct me on any point, lets just not get carried away :biggrin:

The front yard I mow is almost a 45* angle from horizontal.

But I'm wrong, you know more about my yard than I do...

Have a nice day.

May 12, 2011#20

S

Slater

steved said:
The front yard I mow is almost a 45* angle from horizontal.

But I'm wrong, you know more about my yard than I do...

Have a nice day.

Let's keep this civil. I challenged you to correct me on any of my points so we could keep a good conversation but instead ^^ comment. I don't know more about your yard than you do, but it sounds like I have a little more grasp on the laws of physics if you claim to mow 'without issue' on your 45 degree slope. I honestly don't care if you freewheel down your '45 degree slope' and have a nice flat area at the bottom, or whatever other scenario you have, but it comes back to safety and an inexperienced operator should NEVER be operating on anything remotely close to that. Sure, your probably experienced, but tell me how you know its 45 degrees, why you aren't dealing with oil starvation, take some photos and then maybe we can have a good conversation of how things actually are. I would be happy for you to prove me wrong.

May 12, 2011#21

BKBrown

Here is a web site that might help explain Gradient, Slope, Grade, Pitch, Rise Over Run Ratio Calculator
steved - you may very well have a 45 degree angle - I have not seen your lawn/yard - angle, slope, and pitch are all different.

May 12, 2011#22

S

Slater

BKBrown said:
Here is a web site that might help explain Gradient, Slope, Grade, Pitch, Rise Over Run Ratio Calculator
steved - you may very well have a 45 degree angle - I have not seen your lawn/yard - angle, slope, and pitch are all different.

Honestly those explanations don't do much until you actually go out and see slopes of differing severity in person. I can draw on a piece of paper and think I can mow 60 degrees by the look of it, but looks can be very deceiving, that's why physically measuring the slope is the only way.

May 12, 2011#23

CajunCub

IMHO...I have worked on ZTRs for years. Professional, Commercial, Home owner, they are not Cheap or clean cutting & will always be plagued with true tracking problems. I just don't like the ride quality and the block style decks are just not a finishing mower design. They should be called Z-brush-hogs...They tear up grass when you turn, and suck gas like it's FREE! Get you a good Lawn Tractor, you'll save money and your back. Your garage will have more room in it too!:biggrin:

May 12, 2011#24

J

Jim Lahey

Thanks everyone for their input. I have this bucket of bolts being delivered on Monday

May 12, 2011#25

BKBrown

GREAT ! :thumbsup:
I hope you enjoy it and it does everything you expect ! :biggrin:

May 12, 2011#26

J

Jim Lahey

Thanks BKB. I actually spoke with the Ventrac rep today and its really more than I need, and certainly more than I want to spend. HELL of a machine tho. You must have a blast with yours....

May 12, 2011#27

twall

Nice looking machine!

Hope you go "broom, broom, broom" whilst mowing (and having fun) in that skidsteer-like control layout.

May 12, 2011#28

M

Muhammad

For those of you that have steep slopes, you can measure the slope with a tilt meter. We sell them on TBN here: Safety

I believe Ventrac tractors come with tilt meters as standard equipment.

The manufacturer of the tilt meters we sell just came out with a new model for ZTRs with a display that you can see even if it's mounted by your feet (typically the only place to mouth a tilt meter on a ZTR).

Let me know if any of you want to order one of the ZTR model tilt meters and I can get you a discount. I believe the retail is $39.

May 13, 2011#29

K

KennyV

Jim Lahey said:
Thanks everyone for their input. I have this bucket of bolts being delivered on Monday

Post back with your impression after a few hours mowing...
I think you are going to LOVE it... Watch out for bugs while you are smiling, while mowing... :smile:KennyV

May 13, 2011#30

Jetblast

Wait, is this the real reason you picked the Toro? Well played, sir!

May 13, 2011#31

S

Slater

Jetblast said:
Wait, is this the real reason you picked the Toro? Well played, sir!

View attachment 1942

:laughing::laughing::laughing:
Well played sir :thumbsup:
@Muhammad
I didn't know you guys sold those on TBN, pretty cool! Make sure you grab a 2x4 or long piece of lumber to get an accurate measuring with it though!
@Jim
Have a blast, hope it does everything you need!

May 13, 2011#32

J

Jim Lahey

Kenny, will do.

JB, you like that eh? haha

May 13, 2011#33

Jetblast

Muhammad said:
For those of you that have steep slopes, you can measure the slope with a tilt meter. We sell them on TBN here: Safety

I believe Ventrac tractors come with tilt meters as standard equipment.

The manufacturer of the tilt meters we sell just came out with a new model for ZTRs with a display that you can see even if it's mounted by your feet (typically the only place to mouth a tilt meter on a ZTR).

Let me know if any of you want to order one of the ZTR model tilt meters and I can get you a discount. I believe the retail is $39.

Contest: Whoever snaps a picture of the greatest slope reading on their tilt meter without getting killed wins.

Disqualifications: Rolling over; sliding into your pond; mowing in zero-gravity environments.

May 13, 2011#34

S

Slater

Jetblast said:
Contest: Whoever snaps a picture of the greatest slope reading on their tilt meter without getting killed wins.

Disqualifications: Rolling over; sliding into your pond; mowing in zero-gravity environments.

Well BK has a photo here ( http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/ventrac-forum/2462-surprise-3.html) with his Ventrac at 39 degrees, so that would be the one to beat, but lets not all go crazy and do something stupid

May 13, 2011#35

BKBrown

Said it Before - will say it again -- this is the VENTRAC 4200 with Dual Wheel
Set (8 tires) Straight up and down the slope - Gauge is mounted on the side of the tool box, so it is reading the slope as the tractor climbs straight up the incline.

May 13, 2011#36

Jetblast

I believe I have just the machine to top that.

May 13, 2011#37

jmurray01

Jetblast said:
I believe I have just the machine to top that.

View attachment 1949

:laughing:

May 13, 2011#38

BKBrown

WHY MOW dirt ???? :laughing: :biggrin:

:confused2: Maybe somebody has photoshop ???

Jetblast said:
I believe I have just the machine to top that.

View attachment 1949

May 13, 2011#39

S

Slater

Jetblast said:
I believe I have just the machine to top that.

View attachment 1949

Thats nothing. I'll make sure to take my slope indicator up next time :laughing: No oil starvation in this puppy :biggrin:

May 13, 2011#40

Jetblast

Slater said:
Thats nothing. I'll make sure to take my slope indicator up next time :laughing: No oil starvation in this puppy :biggrin:

No offense sir, but I suspect some sort of photographic trickery.

May 13, 2011#41

S

Slater

Jetblast said:
No offense sir, but I suspect some sort of photographic trickery.

Ahh you got me, I made the grass a little greener than it actually is

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Looking at a ZTR but have a sloped yard

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