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John Deere Z225 Zero Turn Will Not Start - Complicated Problem Driving Me Crazy.
#1
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
My Zero Turn John Deere Z225 EZ Trak with Briggs motor had a dead battery after sitting all winter. I jumped post to post (didn't know better) but had to replace the battery. Must have damaged something when jumping. PROBLEM #1... There was no gas feed to carb. Replaced gas filter, still none. Both fuses have continuity (good). Removed solenoid plunger from carb and it started. Bought new solenoid but still no start so running with old solenoid without plunger. PROBLEM #2... PTO switch will not engage clutch. Also noticed hour meter is not working. Replaced relay (#24) but no change. Brake, Seat, Neutral switches are all working. I do not know anything else I can replace other than the coil, regulator, and alternator but I do not think the engine would run if they were bad. It is a 3 hour drive to a John Deere repair shop. Please help if you have any idea what the problem is.
#2
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=wont start jd z225 Recheck fuses and replace, check all wiring, hands on, for loose connections. When you touched positive to negative posts on battery, fuse or fuses were blown.
OMM154566_A7 Scroll down to troubleshooting and electrical left side of page.
Error click anyway Showing 1- 7.5amp fuse and 2 more fuses under tag 8 & 9.
email John Deere support and ask them to send you wiring diagram for z225.
OMM154566_A7 Scroll down to troubleshooting and electrical left side of page.
Error click anyway Showing 1- 7.5amp fuse and 2 more fuses under tag 8 & 9.
email John Deere support and ask them to send you wiring diagram for z225.
#3
Bison
Bison
Check the grounds for corrosion
#4
E
EdGallop
Thanks MM... I did not touch positive to ground but changed both fuses this morning on your recommendation. Still nothing.
E
EdGallop
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=wont start jd z225 Recheck fuses and replace, check all wiring, hands on, for loose connections. When you touched positive to negative posts on battery, fuse or fuses were blown.
Thanks MM... I did not touch positive to ground but changed both fuses this morning on your recommendation. Still nothing.
#5
E
EdGallop
Thanks Bison... I checked the obvious grounds this morning and all looks good, however... You gave me the idea to trace every wire connection from the carb solenoid. I noticed the clutch and carb solenoid (both not working) feed into the same first connector (no corrosion) but the hour meter doesn't. It may just be a bad meter though. I'm not very good with a voltmeter but it is time to learn. I think you may be correct to suspect corrosion. Don't know why I didn't think of that.
E
EdGallop
Check the grounds for corrosion
Thanks Bison... I checked the obvious grounds this morning and all looks good, however... You gave me the idea to trace every wire connection from the carb solenoid. I noticed the clutch and carb solenoid (both not working) feed into the same first connector (no corrosion) but the hour meter doesn't. It may just be a bad meter though. I'm not very good with a voltmeter but it is time to learn. I think you may be correct to suspect corrosion. Don't know why I didn't think of that.
#6
gfp55
gfp55
I don't know if your machine has one, but is there a inline fuse/s anywhere on it?Thanks Bison... I checked the obvious grounds this morning and all looks good, however... You gave me the idea to trace every wire connection from the carb solenoid. I noticed the clutch and carb solenoid (both not working) feed into the same first connector (no corrosion) but the hour meter doesn't. It may just be a bad meter though. I'm not very good with a voltmeter but it is time to learn. I think you may be correct to suspect corrosion. Don't know why I didn't think of that.
#7
E
EdGallop
I looked over the entire wiring harness and couldn't find an in-line fuse. No corrosion either. I checked all the switches (Ignition, PTO, Seat, Brake, and the RH and LH Neutral switches (Zero Turn Steering) and all are working okay. The only wires I couldn't check were under the engine housing. I traced both wires from end to end. There was a .1 M-Amp reading on the hour meter but I don't know what that means. The meter isn't on but maybe the clutch/engine needs to be on. I will check power on the carb solenoid and clutch tomorrow. It has to be something but I am befuddled (spellcheck says that is a word). I appreciate any suggestions.
E
EdGallop
I don't know if your machine has one, but is there a inline fuse/s anywhere on it?
I looked over the entire wiring harness and couldn't find an in-line fuse. No corrosion either. I checked all the switches (Ignition, PTO, Seat, Brake, and the RH and LH Neutral switches (Zero Turn Steering) and all are working okay. The only wires I couldn't check were under the engine housing. I traced both wires from end to end. There was a .1 M-Amp reading on the hour meter but I don't know what that means. The meter isn't on but maybe the clutch/engine needs to be on. I will check power on the carb solenoid and clutch tomorrow. It has to be something but I am befuddled (spellcheck says that is a word). I appreciate any suggestions.
#8
Bison
Some times they use fusable links,Look for a thicker section in a wire, usually with a distinct layer of insulation, they are more or less a diode(power one way only),they do burn out when polarity is acidently reversed
See if these 2 happen to share the same ground and/or power before or after the clutch switch.
Test these wires at each end for continuity, test the ground for continuity to the frame and battery.
Follow the power from both solenoid and clutch to its origin,if it terminates at the ignition switch continuity test the switch, also test the the switches.
A wire might appear good from the out side but the core could be broken inside, check the wires for flexibility, any soft spot is suspect,..these places are often found at flex point in the harness between the engine and frame(vibration is often a culprit. connectors could have corrosion in the pins or the terminals, pull them apart and look.
Fuses could be good but have corrosion between the contact points,..it does not take much to cut power or reduce the voltage to components,...same for grounds.
For eliminating problems or rule a neutral switch in or out you can jump them,..just make sure the tranny is in neutral.
Power the clutch and carb solenoid individually with a jumper wire straight from the battery, listen if they klick, check the clutch if it engages., if not then one or both could be defective
Bison
I looked over the entire wiring harness and couldn't find an in-line fuse. No corrosion either. I checked all the switches (Ignition, PTO, Seat, Brake, and the RH and LH Neutral switches (Zero Turn Steering) and all are working okay. The only wires I couldn't check were under the engine housing. I traced both wires from end to end. There was a .1 M-Amp reading on the hour meter but I don't know what that means. The meter isn't on but maybe the clutch/engine needs to be on. I will check power on the carb solenoid and clutch tomorrow. It has to be something but I am befuddled (spellcheck says that is a word). I appreciate any suggestions.
Some times they use fusable links,Look for a thicker section in a wire, usually with a distinct layer of insulation, they are more or less a diode(power one way only),they do burn out when polarity is acidently reversed
See if these 2 happen to share the same ground and/or power before or after the clutch switch.
Test these wires at each end for continuity, test the ground for continuity to the frame and battery.
Follow the power from both solenoid and clutch to its origin,if it terminates at the ignition switch continuity test the switch, also test the the switches.
A wire might appear good from the out side but the core could be broken inside, check the wires for flexibility, any soft spot is suspect,..these places are often found at flex point in the harness between the engine and frame(vibration is often a culprit. connectors could have corrosion in the pins or the terminals, pull them apart and look.
Fuses could be good but have corrosion between the contact points,..it does not take much to cut power or reduce the voltage to components,...same for grounds.
For eliminating problems or rule a neutral switch in or out you can jump them,..just make sure the tranny is in neutral.
Power the clutch and carb solenoid individually with a jumper wire straight from the battery, listen if they klick, check the clutch if it engages., if not then one or both could be defective
#9
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
Great advice... Thanks. When I was younger things came to me much faster but age (73) has taken a toll. Enjoy your youth and take advantage of your capabilities. It will not last forever. I have made continuity checks on wires from the PTO to the clutch and ground connections. All are good. I will check to make sure power/ground is on the clutch and if so, then the clutch must be bad. It is a pain to get to but should have been one of my first diagnosis. I will cover all your suggestions. Very much appreciated.
Some times they use fusable links,Look for a thicker section in a wire, usually with a distinct layer of insulation, they are more or less a diode(power one way only),they do burn out when polarity is acidently reversed
See if these 2 happen to share the same ground and/or power before or after the clutch switch.
Test these wires at each end for continuity, test the ground for continuity to the frame and battery.
Follow the power from both solenoid and clutch to its origin,if it terminates at the ignition switch continuity test the switch, also test the the switches.
A wire might appear good from the out side but the core could be broken inside, check the wires for flexibility, any soft spot is suspect,..these places are often found at flex point in the harness between the engine and frame(vibration is often a culprit. connectors could have corrosion in the pins or the terminals, pull them apart and look.
Fuses could be good but have corrosion between the contact points,..it does not take much to cut power or reduce the voltage to components,...same for grounds.
For eliminating problems or rule a neutral switch in or out you can jump them,..just make sure the tranny is in neutral.
Power the clutch and carb solenoid individually with a jumper wire straight from the battery, listen if they klick, check the clutch if it engages., if not then one or both could be defective
#10
Bison
As for capabilities I am proud to be a jack of all trades and a real DIYourselfer.
I have not needed a mechanic welder machinist plumber electrician carpenter for 40 odd years and i farm full time to boot and by my lonesome.
Bison
I ain't exactly a spring chicken anymore either if that is what you think, i'm 64 :laughing:Great advice... Thanks. When I was younger things came to me much faster but age (73) has taken a toll. Enjoy your youth and take advantage of your capabilities. It will not last forever. I have made continuity checks on wires from the PTO to the clutch and ground connections. All are good. I will check to make sure power/ground is on the clutch and if so, then the clutch must be bad. It is a pain to get to but should have been one of my first diagnosis. I will cover all your suggestions. Very much appreciated.
As for capabilities I am proud to be a jack of all trades and a real DIYourselfer.
I have not needed a mechanic welder machinist plumber electrician carpenter for 40 odd years and i farm full time to boot and by my lonesome.
#11
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
You are no spring chicken but not old. Getting close though. :smile: I was 70 before I realized I was old. I was raised on a dairy/crop farm in coastal VA. Moved to Alaska where I retired and now enjoy my final years as self sufficient as possible on my mini farm in VA. You live a life I have always admired, especially there in Canada.
I have tracked and diagramed every wire I can find. I'm building a resource of knowledge but haven't solved the problem. Suspicion #1: There is no positive leading into the PTO switch, on or off, but that may be normal without the engine running. Suspicion #2: There is a box attached to the engine cowling, could be a voltage regulator, but didn't think the engine would run if it was bad (engine does run). There is a 12v power wire going into the box from the ignition. A wire comes out of the box and goes under the cowling where I can't see, but continuity shows it is grounded. Another ground wire is connected to the bolt holding the box cover on. Why is there only one 12v wire attached and nothing else but two grounds coming out? I will make the 3 hour trip to the city on Monday (JD Shop) and take the PTO switch with me to compare with a new one. If I can get the unknown box off I'll take it too. They are not very helpful there because they want business. Let me know if you have any suggestions and I will let you know what I find out.
I have tracked and diagramed every wire I can find. I'm building a resource of knowledge but haven't solved the problem. Suspicion #1: There is no positive leading into the PTO switch, on or off, but that may be normal without the engine running. Suspicion #2: There is a box attached to the engine cowling, could be a voltage regulator, but didn't think the engine would run if it was bad (engine does run). There is a 12v power wire going into the box from the ignition. A wire comes out of the box and goes under the cowling where I can't see, but continuity shows it is grounded. Another ground wire is connected to the bolt holding the box cover on. Why is there only one 12v wire attached and nothing else but two grounds coming out? I will make the 3 hour trip to the city on Monday (JD Shop) and take the PTO switch with me to compare with a new one. If I can get the unknown box off I'll take it too. They are not very helpful there because they want business. Let me know if you have any suggestions and I will let you know what I find out.
I ain't exactly a spring chicken anymore either if that is what you think, i'm 64 :laughing:
As for capabilities I am proud to be a jack of all trades and a real DIYourselfer.
I have not needed a mechanic welder machinist plumber electrician carpenter for 40 odd years and i farm full time to boot and by my lonesome.
#12
Bison
Maybe best for you to buy a repair/service manual for your machine, it'll have a trouble shooting section and wiring diagrams.( i have repair manuals for all my equipment,..it takes a lot of guess work out trying to trace or pin point a problem.
#1,.... there might be our problem, there should be power to the PTO switch with the key on.
It could be that either the neutral safety switch in the tranny or under the seat are defect or the wiring is broken.( jump one or both of these switches and see if that gives you power to the PTO switch.
#2,.....that box,..does it have a removable cover? ..could you post a pic?( ask your dealer what it is for)
1 positive in and 2 grounds out is not normal. The wire going under the cowling could be chafed or pinched and might be shorted out intermittent or permanent,...i don't know!
Bison
First off i am not familiar with your model mower so i don't know if they use relays in the electricals on your machine.You are no spring chicken but not old. Getting close though. :smile: I was 70 before I realized I was old. I was raised on a dairy/crop farm in coastal VA. Moved to Alaska where I retired and now enjoy my final years as self sufficient as possible on my mini farm in VA. You live a life I have always admired, especially there in Canada.
I have tracked and diagramed every wire I can find. I'm building a resource of knowledge but haven't solved the problem. Suspicion #1: There is no positive leading into the PTO switch, on or off, but that may be normal without the engine running. Suspicion #2: There is a box attached to the engine cowling, could be a voltage regulator, but didn't think the engine would run if it was bad (engine does run). There is a 12v power wire going into the box from the ignition. A wire comes out of the box and goes under the cowling where I can't see, but continuity shows it is grounded. Another ground wire is connected to the bolt holding the box cover on. Why is there only one 12v wire attached and nothing else but two grounds coming out? I will make the 3 hour trip to the city on Monday (JD Shop) and take the PTO switch with me to compare with a new one. If I can get the unknown box off I'll take it too. They are not very helpful there because they want business. Let me know if you have any suggestions and I will let you know what I find out.
Maybe best for you to buy a repair/service manual for your machine, it'll have a trouble shooting section and wiring diagrams.( i have repair manuals for all my equipment,..it takes a lot of guess work out trying to trace or pin point a problem.
#1,.... there might be our problem, there should be power to the PTO switch with the key on.
It could be that either the neutral safety switch in the tranny or under the seat are defect or the wiring is broken.( jump one or both of these switches and see if that gives you power to the PTO switch.
#2,.....that box,..does it have a removable cover? ..could you post a pic?( ask your dealer what it is for)
1 positive in and 2 grounds out is not normal. The wire going under the cowling could be chafed or pinched and might be shorted out intermittent or permanent,...i don't know!
#14
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
Does anyone here have JD Technical Manuals? Does the basic one show how to change an alternator? My conclusion is... In that the 12v power seems to end at the voltage regulator that tested output is 1v by unplugged from the alternator, and the alternator wire is grounded, I assume the alternator is shorted to ground (bad). The flywheel needs to be removed to replace it so I am going to make arrangements to take the mower to the shop unless I get a manual. I do not know how the alternator feeds power to the carb solenoid and PTO switch but it must if that is the problem. Service technical manual cost $35 (basic) to $100 (component) and I do not know if the $30 one shows me how to change the alternator (mail order only). Thanks for all the help from members of this forum.
First off i am not familiar with your model mower so i don't know if they use relays in the electricals on your machine.
Maybe best for you to buy a repair/service manual for your machine, it'll have a trouble shooting section and wiring diagrams.( i have repair manuals for all my equipment,..it takes a lot of guess work out trying to trace or pin point a problem.
#1,.... there might be our problem, there should be power to the PTO switch with the key on.
It could be that either the neutral safety switch in the tranny or under the seat are defect or the wiring is broken.( jump one or both of these switches and see if that gives you power to the PTO switch.
#2,.....that box,..does it have a removable cover? ..could you post a pic?( ask your dealer what it is for)
1 positive in and 2 grounds out is not normal. The wire going under the cowling could be chafed or pinched and might be shorted out intermittent or permanent,...i don't know!
#15
gfp55
gfp55
Maybe you could go to a John Deere forum were there are JD fans. They have a manual there. But thats just me.
#16
Bison
A trip into the dealers shop is gonna be at least twice that,...and you still won't have a manual.
PS, try Ebay, i got a few used manuals from there
Bison
That is not to bad a price.Does anyone here have JD Technical Manuals? Does the basic one show how to change an alternator? My conclusion is... In that the 12v power seems to end at the voltage regulator that tested output is 1v by unplugged from the alternator, and the alternator wire is grounded, I assume the alternator is shorted to ground (bad). The flywheel needs to be removed to replace it so I am going to make arrangements to take the mower to the shop unless I get a manual. I do not know how the alternator feeds power to the carb solenoid and PTO switch but it must if that is the problem. Service technical manual cost $35 (basic) to $100 (component) and I do not know if the $30 one shows me how to change the alternator (mail order only). Thanks for all the help from members of this forum.
A trip into the dealers shop is gonna be at least twice that,...and you still won't have a manual.
PS, try Ebay, i got a few used manuals from there
#17
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
Thanks all... I tried the John Deere forums and resources and they said it would be illegal to have the manuals on line because of copyright laws. Had no results on Ebay search for Z225 manual either. I would buy a manual for $30 but do not know if it will show how to replace the alternator. The $100 manual likely would but I don't want to spend the extra money if the other manual would work. Thought someone here might know.
#18
Bison
Bison
Ask the dealer and/or buy a manual from them.Thanks all... I tried the John Deere forums and resources and they said it would be illegal to have the manuals on line because of copyright laws. Had no results on Ebay search for Z225 manual either. I would buy a manual for $30 but do not know if it will show how to replace the alternator. The $100 manual likely would but I don't want to spend the extra money if the other manual would work. Thought someone here might know.
#19
E
EdGallop
E
EdGallop
The dealer "thinks" the $30 is more like an owner's manual with technical information but not a detailed service manual. Ordering the $100 manual today. No used ones or a better price could be found. If anyone wants info from the manual let me know. You are right... If I take it in for repairs it will be at least $100 to $150 labor. I just hope the manual is technical enough. By the way... The yellow wire from the regulator is supposed to be grounded to feed voltage to the ground. Who woulda thought? So the problem is not likely the regulator or alternator. Thanks to all.
Ask the dealer and/or buy a manual from them.
#20
M
mechanic mark
M
mechanic mark
Fixing Electric Clutches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN2Q9G3Wq-M
Adjust valves on engine to B&S specifications. Compression release on camshaft will not function properly if valves are loose.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=adjusting valves b&s
My son & I adjusted valves on 20 hp vanguard a week ago friday, .005, runs better than ever. Engine cold, we removed hood, clean dirt etc. from around valve covers, we used cheap paint brushes & compressed air, remove valve covers, remove both plugs, carefully & gently insert long screwdriver inside left, drivers left, spark plug hole touching top of piston, looking for compression stroke, with other hand rotate blower screen top of engine counterclockwise to 1/4" past tdc, both valves should be loose if on compression stroke, insert feeler gauge between rocker arm & push rod, loosen locknut & turn screw in gently until you feel a slight drag with gauge, hold set screw in position and tighten nut, recheck with gauge, repeat on each valve, install rocker covers etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN2Q9G3Wq-M
Adjust valves on engine to B&S specifications. Compression release on camshaft will not function properly if valves are loose.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=adjusting valves b&s
My son & I adjusted valves on 20 hp vanguard a week ago friday, .005, runs better than ever. Engine cold, we removed hood, clean dirt etc. from around valve covers, we used cheap paint brushes & compressed air, remove valve covers, remove both plugs, carefully & gently insert long screwdriver inside left, drivers left, spark plug hole touching top of piston, looking for compression stroke, with other hand rotate blower screen top of engine counterclockwise to 1/4" past tdc, both valves should be loose if on compression stroke, insert feeler gauge between rocker arm & push rod, loosen locknut & turn screw in gently until you feel a slight drag with gauge, hold set screw in position and tighten nut, recheck with gauge, repeat on each valve, install rocker covers etc.
#21
Bison
If that were the case they would've grounded it right at a regulator mounting bolt.
Did you follow that wire to its destination or its source?
Bison
Hard to believe.The dealer "thinks" the $30 is more like an owner's manual with technical information but not a detailed service manual. Ordering the $100 manual today. No used ones or a better price could be found. If anyone wants info from the manual let me know. You are right... If I take it in for repairs it will be at least $100 to $150 labor. I just hope the manual is technical enough. By the way... The yellow wire from the regulator is supposed to be grounded to feed voltage to the ground. Who woulda thought? So the problem is not likely the regulator or alternator. Thanks to all.
If that were the case they would've grounded it right at a regulator mounting bolt.
Did you follow that wire to its destination or its source?
#22
David2291
David2291
Was this ever solved?